HELLO
I DONT SEEE MANY INDIAN MEDICO OR DOCTORS AS ONE OUGHT TO SEE. WHATS GOIN WRONG. considering the fact that 40% of doctors in UNITED STATES are INDIADS
P-LEASE ALL U INDIANS STAYING WHEREVER U ARE. PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS FORUM.

That's because you are so wrong with the figures. There are about 35,000 doctors of Indian origin in the US among the total of 700,000 which puts the figure at around 5% and nowhere near 40%. What did you specifically want from Indians?

YES I AM THERE !!!!!

He probably thought fmgs.
Anyway , i read the statistic somewhere that 1 in 10 med students in the US are children of indian immigrants.

I am indian, not a doctor yet though.

There was an email doing rounds some time back which stated some high figure.. 'Twas 20% as far as I remember..

Oh btw.. Me doctor from India, planning for residency in US..

There was an email doing rounds some time back which stated some high figure.. 'Twas 20% as far as I remember..

Oh btw.. Me doctor from India, planning for residency in US..

Cool. What does ur name stand for? Are u Sikh?

No I am not Sikh.. I doubt if a Sikh will ever like to call himself by that name..

I am just a guy.. with long hair and a beard.. or at least used to be when I took up this name..

Do indians need to stand up and be counted?Well am proud to be one anyway.Is there anyway we could all get together and talk over issues that affect us directly?
I was thinking of the same post when I chanced to see it.Indians for Indians

I am in favor of this quackdoc. Let us share our experiences. I am sure we can provide a lot of info to each other.

Hey dude, about 40-50% of the Indians in the US are doctors. I am on my way to become one as well ;)
Just chill. Go to a med school haha :meanie:

Hey dude, about 40-50% of the Indians in the US are doctors. I am on my way to become one as well ;)
Just chill. Go to a med school haha :meanie:

Are u kidding? No where near are 40-50% of the indians in the US are doctors. But they are certainly highly represented in the field compared to their representation in the US population.

ok May be I was exaggerating, but then it is not less than 30%.

ok May be I was exaggerating, but then it is not less than 30%.

All FMG together make up about 40% of the physicians in this country.

Hey why don't you guys introduce yourselves?

My real name's Siddharth, I am a US resident NRI haha not NRAI (been here since May'99 after S.S.C. exams -10th grade board exams) I am hoping to get a decent score on the MCAT.

Hey why don't you guys introduce yourselves?

My real name's Siddharth, I am a US resident NRI haha not NRAI (been here since May'99 after S.S.C. exams -10th grade board exams) I am hoping to get a decent score on the MCAT.

Cool, i ll be taking the MCATs in august also. My name is Nirmeet and a student at UC berkeley. Lived in the US my whole life, have visited india a few times.

Cool, i ll be taking the MCATs in august also. My name is Nirmeet and a student at UC berkeley. Lived in the US my whole life, have visited india a few times.


Hey actually I just took the MCAT I should have put expecting a decent MCAT score my fault. Anyways I live in good ole Kentucky Don't ask why :laugh:

Hey actually I just took the MCAT I should have put expecting a decent MCAT score my fault. Anyways I live in good ole Kentucky Don't ask why :laugh:

Why? :laugh:

Why? :laugh:
aah dude, I lived with my cousin for a year in Jackson, MI. His parents are doctors , he will be attending NYU med school this August. I just had to act silly first year, you know. My parents were in Middle East then, so I had to live with my parents the next year for 12th grade. It was fun studying at the The AMerican INTL. School of Muscat. My borther was in Northern KY as my other aunt lives there as well. That is how I got stuck here. But I am close of Cincinnati and get to watch South Park and be in a fraternity so life's good :D

if you're counting... i'm another one....

if you're counting... i'm another one....

Hey bud, where are you from?

Hyderabad and New Orleans... you?

Mumbai and Northern Kentucky :( Horrible isn't it?
I always wanted to meet Hyderabadis :D
I might go to Hyderabad one day

Northern Kentucky.... close to the ohio border? I guess you fly Delta from that airport to India? I flew in to that Cincinatti/Northern Kentucky airport once....

Northern Kentucky.... close to the ohio border? I guess you fly Delta from that airport to India? I flew in to that Cincinatti/Northern Kentucky airport once....
yup :cool:

Northern Kentucky.... close to the ohio border? I guess you fly Delta from that airport to India? I flew in to that Cincinatti/Northern Kentucky airport once....

lol........

hi!
this forum had created not for quibbling over statistics, though it can be done some a time :) this is primarily 2 adress the issues or problems facing indian pre meds and meds. there is no denying the fact that that indians play a crucial role in american medicine.
we have our own unique set of problems and this we have 2 adress.

bye.

hi!
this forum had created not for quibbling over statistics, though it can be done some a time :) this is primarily 2 adress the issues or problems facing indian pre meds and meds. there is no denying the fact that that indians play a crucial role in american medicine.
we have our own unique set of problems and this we have 2 adress.

bye.
Well dude I cannot really thinkg of any major issues besides the high risk of coronay heart disease among us (not sure if it is due to our genetic disposition or diet)
Expecting an interesting feedback

CAD in Indians is more due to genetic factors. I think we have a very balanced diet. If we compare it to american diet, our food is more healthy.
The excessive amount of cheese and fat is all over the news. No wonder Atkins made a lot of money.

CAD in Indians is more due to genetic factors. I think we have a very balanced diet. If we compare it to american diet, our food is more healthy.
The excessive amount of cheese and fat is all over the news. No wonder Atkins made a lot of money.

I have never really cooked Indian food myself, but doesn't Indian food have a lot of oil and butter?

Far less calorie than pizza and burgers.
Actually depends, many people add extra ghee, otherwise it is very balanced.
But pizzas, burgers etc are loaded with cheese, mayonaise etc; actually loaded with calories. You will find many people who are otherwise in proper physical shape, but having high cholesterol and triglycerides. The diet in america is very atherogenic. Of course many are obese too, causing an epidemic of vascular dis and cancer. It is only now that they are taking public health measures. It was on CNN , that the blood pressure of kids in the US has increased, mainly due to obesity, placing them at a high risk of heart disease, stroke, kidney dis and diabetes.

I am in pretty good shape, played football and baseball in HS, 3 years ago, but I still try to workout atleast a few times a week. I don't look fat at all, I have a normal BP but I have high cholestrol. I alway thought it was attributed to all the oil and butter in indian diets.

I am in pretty good shape, played football and baseball in HS, 3 years ago, but I still try to workout atleast a few times a week. I don't look fat at all, I have a normal BP but I have high cholestrol. I alway thought it was attributed to all the oil and butter in indian diets.
Even one of my US born female cousins has High Cholestrol. She takes good care of herself. I guess genetic factors could be responsible in her case as well as yours

hi!
its more because we indians r so much after our career before marriage and wife so much after us after marriage that we never get 2 take care of ourselves :confused: . did i forget 2 mention about money everywher between marriage and wife.
its not that we indians cant but its that we dont.

hi!
the above reply is especially for premed 2med.

hi!
its more because we indians r so much after our career before marriage and wife so much after us after marriage that we never get 2 take care of ourselves :confused: . did i forget 2 mention about money everywher between marriage and wife.
its not that we indians cant but its that we dont.


hahahaha :laugh:

:laugh: You were right on

So why have people stopped coming up with issues to talk about?

What about improving health care in India? Compared to the developed nations, Indian govt. spends little to no money on doing surveys about health issues in India. Doctors rarely go to rural areas. Very little incentive for private sector to invest in hospitals.

This message is for IMG. Dude are you really going to tell me that indian food is healthier? Come on, the only reason Indians are not as obese is because of quantity control (which is largely brought on not because of iron willed self-control as much as their economic limitations). Anyways, I don't think economy is a limitation anymore, proved by the many fast-food joints popping up every which way you look. So, hold off on the samosas and jilebis cause Indians are right at America's heels, heading straight for obesity.

If you eat fast food everyday, you are consuming unhealthy food. The daily diet of people in india is not samosa and jalebi, it is daal, roti sabzi in north india and sambar,idli or dosa in south india. There are lots of foods which are more rich, but are party foods.
In america the staple food includes beef( red meat - atherogenic). Children in schools eat burgers and fries (loaded with fat) everyday. Most pizzas are loaded with calories and cholesterol. It is what you eat everyday that affects your health, not what you eat occasionally.
I am not saying indians have self will to eat healthy food. It is just that the foods have more vegetables and fiber. If they start consuming westen diets everyday they will also have the same problems. Other easter foods- thai, jap, chinese are also healthy because of more vegetables and also sea food.
Healthcare in india needs a tremendous facelift.
There is a need for infrastructure building. This does not include hospitals alone. There is almost no health insurance, which impedes rural health care. It is only now that health insurance policies are being offered, but are still confined to cities.
India produces a large number of doctors every year. But they cannot go to rural areas because of lack of incentive. Most of them are highly skilled and qualified. After years of hard work, everyone wants to earn a decent living. People in rural areas do not and many times cannot pay enough for their health care. So urban areas are supersaturated with doctors causing tremendous competition while rural areas have almost none. Health insurance in the US is a major cause of good health services.
Who can pay $ 200,000 for a coronary bypass surg. But insurance takes care of such issues.
I feel if there is a viable health insurance in India, which is also availed by the people on a big scale, it will provide a lot of incentive for doctors, hospitals and health care providers. The market of healthcare in India is unparalled. No other country barring China has so many patients. Just like telecom, which has boomed beyond proportions, health care can be a big money spinner, provided some legal changes are made. As of now, every inch of the country is connected by telecom(mobile phones) and services are offered at throw away prices, health care is waiting for legislation. There is no dearth of business corporations.
One legal change would be to provide tax incentives to insurance companies to provide health insurance policies in the rural sector.
Numerous economic policy changes have led to good results and the results on the Indian economy is for everyone to see.

Even people like me (living in the US) are very interested in helping out somehow. Only if Govt. makes it easier for the Private sector to jump in.

Also, if the govt. pays more attn. to primary education now that we have really awesome schools, we will be able to improve literacy rate and as a result the awareness among people about health issues.

I read somewhere that it will be around 75% by 2005. I am willing to spend dollars when I really start making money to improve literacy and health related education and healthcare itself.

I have my fingers crossed. Hope we as Indians can form politically, socially active groups about this situation no matter where we live. :thumbup:

Hi!
This is Adi, a 3rd yr med student frm India.
Guys, is it true that indians who get through the usmle don't get competetive residencies like surg., paeds etc?
Also, heard that we r not given residencies in the good hosps.
I am deciding on whether to appear usmle/plab and am really confused.
Plz respond.

hi Adi,
peds is easy to get into, it is not competitive. Surgical fields (very very difficult) , rads, ortho , ent ,ophth not possible.
Most important is working in US ( trying to get published or most importantly get l etters of recommendation from US prtofessors). Otherwise firstly it is difficult, secondly residency will be in a bad place or not so good hosp.
They want US experience or exposure to US medicine and preferably US letter of rec. If you get a publication all the more good. Without these you will be able to get into a community hospital in a not so good place. To get into a univ based hosp , you have to do the above and sweat it out.
PLAB: For any foreign doc i would say US is the best. It is easier to get into UK but extremely difficult to move up to registrar. Many of my friends there are having a tough uncertain time. Many foreign med students from UK come to the US.

Hi!
This is Adi, a 3rd yr med student frm India.
Guys, is it true that indians who get through the usmle don't get competetive residencies like surg., paeds etc?
Also, heard that we r not given residencies in the good hosps.
I am deciding on whether to appear usmle/plab and am really confused.
Plz respond.

Both Peds & Surgery are gettable.You have to get kickass scores.Rest all stuff follow these.I got a friend who matched into Uro ...so there you are...Btw..peds is not that big a deal.
Btw,do your rotations sincerely and then decide what you wanna do..Get those kickass scores as of now...
Cheers!

Surgery is still not very gettable. The 80 hour work week regulation has made surgery again very competitive because of the large number of applications from US grads. In this yrs match there were just 2 vacancies for categorical positions, all the others were for prelim. With the 80 hr rule there will be few drop outs from categorical, so moving from prelim to categ is all the more difficult now. I would not count on surg. If someone is willing to take the risk then it is fine, but odds are not in favor as of now.

im a dentist from india here to get my dds if the count is still on

How is everyone doing?

For the count...

I'm a 22 yo pre-med who just graduated from USC in southern california. I'm currently applying... I had a question for anyone who would like to respond...

As an Indian pre-med, it is often very difficult to maintain your own identity. What I mean is... I am automatically labeled as another "Indian doctor." But in reality, I have a lot of different motivations for selecting my career choice and I hate to be stereotyped as choosing something just because "I'm supposed to." Has anybody else overcome this... meaning.... what do u all do to maintain a unique identity aside from your career... lol.. maybe this is just an issue for the ABCDs!

Thanks everyone and hooray for this forum

FYI according to the Association of Physicians of Indian Origin (AAPI) there are 35,000 physicians in the United States of Indian origin. According to the AMA there are approximately 700,000 physicians in the nation, of which Indians constitute 5% of the workforce.

How is everyone doing?

For the count...

I'm a 22 yo pre-med who just graduated from USC in southern california. I'm currently applying... I had a question for anyone who would like to respond...

As an Indian pre-med, it is often very difficult to maintain your own identity. What I mean is... I am automatically labeled as another "Indian doctor." But in reality, I have a lot of different motivations for selecting my career choice and I hate to be stereotyped as choosing something just because "I'm supposed to." Has anybody else overcome this... meaning.... what do u all do to maintain a unique identity aside from your career... lol.. maybe this is just an issue for the ABCDs!

Thanks everyone and hooray for this forum

No offense, be an agressive a** hole dude, c'mon we as Indians rule, be proud of it. Don't give a damn what people have to say. I am always pushing my cousins to reach higher goals. C'mon seriously, your question was weak dude very weak.

No offense, be an agressive a** hole dude, c'mon we as Indians rule, be proud of it. Don't give a damn what people have to say. I am always pushing my cousins to reach higher goals. C'mon seriously, your question was weak dude very weak.

Lol...Hey man! I hear what you're saying.. maybe I just need to stop thinking about stupid sh*t like that so much... thanks for the response.. hey, I've seen you on a lot of forums, you always have good responses for people... hope all is well man

My advice: grow some grapefruits.

damn did i really sound like that much of a fruit!!

Lol...Hey man! I hear what you're saying.. maybe I just need to stop thinking about stupid sh*t like that so much... thanks for the response.. hey, I've seen you on a lot of forums, you always have good responses for people... hope all is well man

lol, I guess I spend a lot of time here .
Besides, I am very familiar with second gen. Indian American issues as I have lots of relatives here.

There are enough Indians in the medical field....trust me on this. I don't know the numbers or the figures but it's enough people so that Indians are no longer URMs.

im a dentist from india here to get my dds if the count is still on


No that doesn't count, get the hel out of here :mad:




Just kidding :laugh:

How is everyone doing?

For the count...

I'm a 22 yo pre-med who just graduated from USC in southern california. I'm currently applying... I had a question for anyone who would like to respond...

As an Indian pre-med, it is often very difficult to maintain your own identity. What I mean is... I am automatically labeled as another "Indian doctor." But in reality, I have a lot of different motivations for selecting my career choice and I hate to be stereotyped as choosing something just because "I'm supposed to." Has anybody else overcome this... meaning.... what do u all do to maintain a unique identity aside from your career... lol.. maybe this is just an issue for the ABCDs!

Thanks everyone and hooray for this forum


Indians do get stereotyped today ( A LOT!). Sometimes, people have their own identities and some of these identities that they choose often puts them in a position where they would not like to be stereotyped as another "indian doctor." "Indian-doctor" stereotypes (usually negative) does affect many people even though they might be very proud of their culture. MD Rapper, I dont think it's an issue for ABCDs but I think stereotypes affect every race, creed and color. It sucks but hey..sometimes, you gotta rise above it. I constantly go through the delimma(especially when I experience somethign new), but realize this, no matter "what" you are, you'll have this delimma. (Hopefully, I made some sense :cool: )

I knew that Indian Doctors are sterotyped a lot but I always thought that it was a positive sterotype and not a negative one... I guess maybe it depends on where in america we are talking about. :confused:

agreed.

I am from Visakhapatnam (Vizag) in Andhra Pradesh. Lived there till I was 13 and then moved to NYC.
Can't complain much about desi stereotypes, especially the "Indian Doctor" one. In the beginning, every party I was at was full of burgeoning aspiring doctors. But now, I think I've developed immunity. Mostly by just staying away from ppl who start that conversation :) We are gonna be doing this for the REST of our lives, theres no need to spoil a good party by talking about premed/med school/residencies/fellowships......a never ending list.

I do have one quibble though. It seems ironic but even though NYC is a pretty big melting pot, I have yet to meet ppl who speak telugu. Only have 3 good desi buddies and they are all from the north. Nightlife in NYC is a blast and I make it a point to go out whenever I can, but I think it'd be even more cool if there were ppl rapping in a club in telugu...

ANYONE HERE SPEAK TELUGU????


P.S. I do have to say though, the dearth is definitely made up by the multitude of stunningly good looking desi girls in NYC.

How many of u were pushed or encouraged to go into medicine? I know i was starting at a very young age.

is the count still on? i'm also indian born and raised in the states!! :)
is there anyone out there who's not a dr...or planning to be one? i have a MPH....no desire to become a physician. and even though i'm an indian-american ...i'm still very interested in public health issues affecting indians...especially those in india.

is the count still on? i'm also indian born and raised in the states!! :)
is there anyone out there who's not a dr...or planning to be one? i have a MPH....no desire to become a physician. and even though i'm an indian-american ...i'm still very interested in public health issues affecting indians...especially those in india.

We need more people like you. Thanks :thumbup:

Actually i m interested in international med, maybe working in india or africa. But i am planning to go to med school first.

Actually i m interested in international med, maybe working in india or africa. But i am planning to go to med school first.

Good luck. I plan on getting MD first, making some money and establishing good contacts to help out in the best possible way like some of the Indian Americans :D

Good luck. I plan on getting MD first, making some money and establishing good contacts to help out in the best possible way like some of the Indian Americans :D

good thoughts there :thumbup:

:)
Another Desi Wannabe Doc Here!

add another brownie to the mix, beta

add another brownie to the mix, beta



:laugh: :laugh:

lot of Indian premeds here..good luck you all. :thumbup:

another soon to be doc here!!

This one goes out to all my puri and paneer eating friends, WOOT WOOT.

Just kidding, anyway, thought I'd add to this post. I'm currently an undergraduate student in Texas applying to medical school. Heck, if I don't get in this time around...I'm going straight to India to travel for a year.

Best,
CaptainMonkey

"add another brownie to the mix, beta"

haha, that was hilarious. You know, now that we're going to be doctors, better get ready for those indian aunties and their damn pickup lines...
"doctor eh? hello beta, can I have your biodata?"

"
"doctor eh? hello beta, can I have your biodata?"

that doesn't sound great..kinda scary.

that's not good for the community as a whole.

So throw that "I am a doctor" attitude out of the window Illinois boy

I am just picking on you BTW :laugh: :laugh:

that's not good for the community as a whole.

So throw that "I am a doctor" attitude out of the window Illinois boy

I am just picking on you BTW :laugh: :laugh:

Actually, I m not a doctor.:D Will have to wait a year b4 I can say that I m in med school and 5 years b4 I can say I m a doctor.

My parent's are from India. This is the first time I've been to the Int Forums area. I usually lurk around the Everyone Forum and Pre-Allo.

My parent's are from India. This is the first time I've been to the Int Forums area. I usually lurk around the Everyone Forum and Pre-Allo.

Welcome :D

Hello there! This is my first time here, I know most of the students here are from the US, but anyways...thought i'd say hi to everyone, and see if there were any med students here from the UK?! I'm Indian too btw...been in the UK most of my life, just finished first year at a UK medical school...its gone by so fast! cant believe im starting second year already in sept! :D
Anyways, I better go, but lookin forward to hearing from you guys soon!


:) :D :) :D

Hello there! This is my first time here, I know most of the students here are from the US, but anyways...thought i'd say hi to everyone, and see if there were any med students here from the UK?! I'm Indian too btw...been in the UK most of my life, just finished first year at a UK medical school...its gone by so fast! cant believe im starting second year already in sept! :D
Anyways, I better go, but lookin forward to hearing from you guys soon!


:) :D :) :D

I m planning to be in UK next spring for study abroad, if admission process gets over by then. (Fingers crossed).

I m planning to be in UK next spring for study abroad, if admission process gets over by then. (Fingers crossed).

Thats cool, which part of the UK are you hoping to go to? Is it for an elective type thing? We get to go on an elective for 6 weeks at the end of yr 3...

Illinois boy is an undergrad

Thanks for the info, Premedtomed. Btw, how do people know I m a male. I don't think I mentioned it anywhere.

Thanks for the info, Premedtomed. Btw, how do people know I m a male. I don't think I mentioned it anywhere.

Hey dude, remember the Indian women thread where you said you listen to rap but don't sag/pull your pants down - that's a guy thing.

right..good point. I was trying to be anonymous. Well..screw it. There is no point in hiding.

I am Indian, male, from Illinois, applying to med school, a lil liberal. Thats all I have given out so far.

right..good point. I was trying to be anonymous. Well..screw it. There is no point in hiding.

I am Indian, male, from Illinois, applying to med school, a lil liberal. Thats all I have given out so far.

What up :cool:

It is kind of neat to know that people raised here in the US are cool enough to talk with ppl. like me.

Any back stabbing yet? (by "fellow" indians who claim to be OH SO VERY "pro" desi..")


Since all the American desis I have encountered LOVE to backstab (and if you think I am some deranged/disgrunteled/IRRATIONAL person, go look at my other posts)

I used to be naive when I first came to US when I was 8. Throughout my adolescence and teenage years, I wanted to be with my people, until I realzied that it was my "own people" who love to backstab us.

Now, I am not a big fan of ABCDs. It's pathetic, actually.

All the other races look out for each other, and then there is us! (can you imagine--my "personal wish"--if we had the same "brotherhood" as the Jews, the blacks, and the hispanics!!)

My mom was an IMG, and when she passed her boards, she applied for a peds spot at SUNY (for privacy, I will not mention which one). The person interviewing her was a fellow desi, and my mom (fresh from India) was happy that someone that she can relate to was interviewing her too. The person tells my mom not to worry and that he/she (privacy...again) will take care of everything and gave her a good morale boosting. Although she was eventually accepted into the residency, she came to find out from a few other residents and attendings that it was the "fellow desi" that openly criticized her during the selections and blatantly told the PD NOT to accept her!! she found this out when for some odd reason, she kept on getting bad evals from 1 member of the staff (who was this guy) while getting awesome evals from the other staff.

My mother is an Associate Professor of Medicine and has published over 100 articles!! So, guess who's laughing now!?!


YOU TELL ME.....WOULD YOU TRUST "US" IF YOU WERE ME (or my mom...or my dad, for whom I have a few stories also)


And lastly, the funny thing I have seen is that the richer the ABCD, the more they love to backstab!!!


But there is some light at the end of the tunnel....I have become more cautious about trusting "us" anymore...so has my family...and I HAVE 100X MORE RESPECT AND ADMIRATION FOR THE DESI IMG, who is coming to America "bright-eyed" and eager, just like my mom was a few decades ago!

The desi IMG still loves his/her people.

I wish the same could be said about the American desis!!!!!!

[QUOTE=medlaw06]Any back stabbing yet? (by "fellow" indians who claim to be OH SO VERY "pro" desi..")


holy sh**!! i don't know what stick you have up your *ss...but i am one of those "american desi's"....born and raised and damn proud of it. you can't judge the entire "desi" population based on one SOB. people like that are found in every race/ethnicity/culture. sure i agree that there are some indians that take their money and so called power and use it for no good...but i do believe you would find that in india as well!...and in any other culture! from my experience...in general, my fellow "desi's" do look out for each other. you should be proud of your heritage no matter what. and this comes from an american who's proud to be a straight up desi!!

I totally agree with apgmph. Taking one isolated incident and generalizing it to the whole population of "american desis" is really childish and naive.

medlaw06 dude just chill out
There are several such cases I am an Indian born desi who came here at the age of 16. My cousins took great care of me although two of them loved to ridicule India / Indian stuff - it's their problem anyways .

Yes I have known quite a few desis who are ego maniacs and extremely silly/crazy money minded.
There was this family from England at my cousin's wedding their English born sons were pretty cool and the ABCDs are generally cool as persons- they might not like Indian crap but will never backstab you.

this mom, dad was also cool had an ego thing when we went in a cab to some place and the guy was a Sri Lankan and asked the mom-dad duo where we were from and they said England and I kept quiet for some reason - coz he went on talking about his stuff and the mom was like "he (the cab driver) thinks he (I ) is from "England" as well" :laugh:

really ****ty mentality - what can one do there is this case of my friend's dad whose brother is a big rich doctor married to a white woman and refused help his brother out! THis guy came to the US just like us i.e. my family :eek:
Luckiliy my relatives have been great. Otherwise I'd have been in the same
situation as yours
Just take it easy dude ;)

Otherwise I'd have been in the same
situation as yours. Just take it easy dude ;)

(interesting you state that... atleast you have some notion of where I am coming from, and not like the other posts who merely go about criticizing without having an ounce of thought or sentiment or even basic understanding of where I am coming from)


To premedtomed and everyone else.

Your opinions mean little to me...to some degree. I have heard the same/similar stuff a thousand times from a thousand different desis....the funny thing is that it is these same desis that gave me this advice that ended up backstabbing me.

I was class president of my med school my 2nd year. the guy that was VP was another desi. The funny thing is that it was me who "nominated" him and got him elected, as he had no interest in "politics" but he had tremedous potential as someone who can help the student body (and part of it was desi pride in that I wanted another person who was desi in there with me--> so to those who think that I am some anti-desi person, NOT TRUE!!!). The funny thing is that he was the person who went behind my back and nominated someone else, WHOM I DESPISED, and went on to tell others NOT to vote for me, just so the other person can get the position.


I REALIZE 100% that what I just said seems like a bad episode of some cheesy, day-time soap opera. However, it was stated just to illustrate yet another example of the backstabbing that CAN (and in my opinion, happens more often than not) occur.

I WANT ANYONE READING THIS TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION BEFORE YOU GO ABOUT BARRAGING LIKE A HEADLESS ("thoughtless") chicken:

WOULD YOU TRUST "US" IF YOU WERE ME (or my mom...or my dad, for whom I have a few stories also)?

(to those who do not know what I am referring to, please read my previous post for which I am getting the criticisms for)


I realize that it was just one person. I do have SOME (at the very least) common sense. If I didn't have some, I wouldn't be where I am in life now! I know that it is 1 person, BUT IT'S NOT!!

How come I have encountered repeated instances such as this!


In any case, my fiancee is desi. I speak fluent hindi and pretty good guju (even though I am not guju). I have not lost touch with any of my previous cultures and values.


AND I LOOK OUT FOR MY FELLOW DESIs....even ABCD....by the way, it's not the "A" or "B" or "D" that bothers me....it's the "C" part....I am sick and tired of seeing all these "desis" who claim that they are desis, but are nothing more than a coconut!!


And on a final note....


IN MANY WAYS, I WAS GLAD TO SEE SUCH A VEHEMENT REACTION AGAINST WHAT I HAD PREVIOUSLY WRITTEN....it shows to me that there ARE true desis that are out there who ARE ABD (no "C" since there is no confusion).

I wish there were MORE of people like you. If I had encountered people like you before, I wouldn't say the things I say and wouldn't get upset. :mad: :mad: :mad:

However, you have to admit one thing:

the jews, blacks, aand hispanics "look out" for each other MORE than desis!!

(that point is something that I refuse to budge on...look at the way AA is killing the indian population in medical school, and I have ample evidence to prove that!!!) I wish there were more desis that would stand up for their rights in this country.

I am also on the admissions commitee at my medical school and have seen the discrepancies that are occuring in the desi/asian popultion of acceptances vs. the "minorities."

I do NOT want to make this forum into some debate over the pros and cons of AA, but there definitely IS disparate treatment of indian applicants!

The thing that makes me mad (and one of my private wishes is to take this on to the US Supreme Court, IF I end up practicing law...unlikely though) is that it seems to me that the result is due to us being "model minority." WTF is up with that... since when my family came over to America, I doubt that we were sponsored by the KKK!

I wisj more desis would STAND UP for their rights....and if enough do, then my private wish could come into a reality and I would be more than happy to litigate the case! :D :D :D :D

hmmmm..

And I thought only us black people fought like cats and dogs. :o

Z zzzzzz....... :sleep:

Long post, man. I see ur point though.

I would love to see desi brotherhood, but it ain't gonna happen.

So don't trust anyone blindly cause he is a desi. That way, u will live a lot happier life, and won't be BSed so much. I have good Indian friends that I can blindly trust. But that trust has developed over time. No trust at first sight (seeing brown).

And Hispanics have even worse backlash against new immigrants. Not so much in African Americans, but they aren't united either. Only Jews stick together. They got enough money to push any polictical agenda they want.

Hey! I'm Indian and I never knew this forum existed. Anyways, I'm 21/m/OR and I start pharmacy school this fall!

OR? I thought I finally learned all the chatting acronyms...maybe not.

OR = Oregon, meaning I'm from the boring state of Oregon!

chill dude !!
indians are her , but tat doesnt mean they got to stick their heads out yur screen and knock o yu sayin " hey dude indian here!!" anyways why is it tat yu wanted indians??? homesick??? :cool:

Hi friends,

I heard about this forum last week.I found its great.but unable to get inforamtion about the opertunities and procedure for inidan nurses here. I need the inforamtion after passsing the CGFNS exam in India what are the things we have to do get licence here to work as RN. If any body knows about the total procedure plz give me information or suggest me the web site where i can get complete information along with visa things.Thanks.

Hi everyone, just randomly saw this thread and thought i'd chime in, i'm indian, in CA...doing ophthalmology. Cheers...have a great day!

Hi everyone, just randomly saw this thread and thought i'd chime in, i'm indian, in CA...doing ophthalmology. Cheers...have a great day!
welcome..........graet u decided to chime in............wish u all light and luck..... :luck:

Whoever was bizznitching about 'Indian's born in America' are 'backstabbing' etc., doesnt really seem to be 'socialized' too well. The social dynamics that this person mentions are seen in every ETHNIC group, however you will find a more insidious (hidden, not exposed, slow onset, creeps up on ya from nowhere) form of it in the WASPs. Dude you need to live a little. Sorry for being judgemental and presumptive but you opened the door chief. Every culture/ethnicity has their backstabbers etc and every ethnicity has their racists etc too. These are just facts of life. Indians in India are either very nice, or not. In the end, be nice and get nice back (if ya want/need it).
Cheers

Hey I am an Indian too.

Dental studenthttp://e4u.deltait.com.au/dressed/bek028.gif

Whoever was bizznitching about 'Indian's born in America' are 'backstabbing' etc., doesnt really seem to be 'socialized' too well. The social dynamics that this person mentions are seen in every ETHNIC group, however you will find a more insidious (hidden, not exposed, slow onset, creeps up on ya from nowhere) form of it in the WASPs. Dude you need to live a little. Sorry for being judgemental and presumptive but you opened the door chief. Every culture/ethnicity has their backstabbers etc and every ethnicity has their racists etc too. These are just facts of life. Indians in India are either very nice, or not. In the end, be nice and get nice back (if ya want/need it).
Cheers
WELL SAID ........Its about human nature............not a particular community....so lets face it...........good begets good......so if u suffered.....make sure u do not let somebody else suffer the same way......live and let others live is the essence.....

How is everyone doing?

For the count...

I'm a 22 yo pre-med who just graduated from USC in southern california. I'm currently applying... I had a question for anyone who would like to respond...

As an Indian pre-med, it is often very difficult to maintain your own identity. What I mean is... I am automatically labeled as another "Indian doctor." But in reality, I have a lot of different motivations for selecting my career choice and I hate to be stereotyped as choosing something just because "I'm supposed to." Has anybody else overcome this... meaning.... what do u all do to maintain a unique identity aside from your career... lol.. maybe this is just an issue for the ABCDs!

Thanks everyone and hooray for this forum

I totally agree with you. I don't have the inclination nor the desire to tell my life story to each and every stranger I come across. Until someone gets to know me for more than 60 seconds, I'm sure they categorize me with their coloured perception of Indians.

Any back stabbing yet? (by "fellow" indians who claim to be OH SO VERY "pro" desi..")


Since all the American desis I have encountered LOVE to backstab (and if you think I am some deranged/disgrunteled/IRRATIONAL person, go look at my other posts)

I used to be naive when I first came to US when I was 8. Throughout my adolescence and teenage years, I wanted to be with my people, until I realzied that it was my "own people" who love to backstab us.

Now, I am not a big fan of ABCDs. It's pathetic, actually.

All the other races look out for each other, and then there is us! (can you imagine--my "personal wish"--if we had the same "brotherhood" as the Jews, the blacks, and the hispanics!!)

My mom was an IMG, and when she passed her boards, she applied for a peds spot at SUNY (for privacy, I will not mention which one). The person interviewing her was a fellow desi, and my mom (fresh from India) was happy that someone that she can relate to was interviewing her too. The person tells my mom not to worry and that he/she (privacy...again) will take care of everything and gave her a good morale boosting. Although she was eventually accepted into the residency, she came to find out from a few other residents and attendings that it was the "fellow desi" that openly criticized her during the selections and blatantly told the PD NOT to accept her!! she found this out when for some odd reason, she kept on getting bad evals from 1 member of the staff (who was this guy) while getting awesome evals from the other staff.

My mother is an Associate Professor of Medicine and has published over 100 articles!! So, guess who's laughing now!?!


YOU TELL ME.....WOULD YOU TRUST "US" IF YOU WERE ME (or my mom...or my dad, for whom I have a few stories also)


And lastly, the funny thing I have seen is that the richer the ABCD, the more they love to backstab!!!


But there is some light at the end of the tunnel....I have become more cautious about trusting "us" anymore...so has my family...and I HAVE 100X MORE RESPECT AND ADMIRATION FOR THE DESI IMG, who is coming to America "bright-eyed" and eager, just like my mom was a few decades ago!

The desi IMG still loves his/her people.

I wish the same could be said about the American desis!!!!!!

I think you make some good points. For the most part, I've dissociated myself from the Indian community at large, aside from a few folk here and there. I came to Canada at a very early age much like you, but we didn't necessarily have as negative an experience with 'professional' Indians as your family has. Still, I'm inclined to agree with you.

Perhaps this generalization should encompass society at large, but I've found Indians to be terribly competitive in a negative sense, and very much focussed on the material nature of reality. I agree that aspirations and lofty goals are a positive, but when these goals hinder one's ability to be civil, the world is not made a better place. I would imagine that civility and true empathy - not the kind that is superficially displayed by answering lame roleplay questions - are of great import in a field such as Medicine. Sadly, not many Indians I know have displayed such qualities.

Guys, guys, guys...........eventhough you may be approached or pervceived 'stereotypically' as being a doctor based on ethnicity I feel the chances of being perceived as other things are high too.
For example, you may be perceived as being a 'cab driver', a 'thug', a 'gangster', a 'terrorist', a 'falafel stand dude', etc., etc., so I think it is kind of 'high and mighty' to be assuming that 'it is soooooooo annoying that all people ever think about is a doctor when they think of you.
Now I may be wrong if what you are referring to only occurs when you are on wards, in class or wearing your stethoscope around your neck at a night club.
Don't mean to be difficult, I just wanted to clarify a few things for myself on this issue.
Message is..............is it such a difficult 'burden' to bear?
It is about time that our community gets/has a good role model or two instead of "Apu" on the Simpsons that everyone in America watches.
I remember when that first aired, all the kids were imitating "Apu's" voice, "Jess of Cooooorse bery bery goood".
I'd have less of a problem if it was a doctor with that accent-at least he isnt being viewed by mainstream America in a negative way.
Yes I know, it is only a cartoon/caricature however that is an example of covert ethnic prejudice (i.e., 'it is only a joke dude', 'jeez man it's only a cartoon take it easy'). Yadda yadda yadda

Guys, guys, guys...........eventhough you may be approached or pervceived 'stereotypically' as being a doctor based on ethnicity I feel the chances of being perceived as other things are high too.
For example, you may be perceived as being a 'cab driver', a 'thug', a 'gangster', a 'terrorist', a 'falafel stand dude', etc., etc., so I think it is kind of 'high and mighty' to be assuming that 'it is soooooooo annoying that all people ever think about is a doctor when they think of you.
Now I may be wrong if what you are referring to only occurs when you are on wards, in class or wearing your stethoscope around your neck at a night club.
Don't mean to be difficult, I just wanted to clarify a few things for myself on this issue.
Message is..............is it such a difficult 'burden' to bear?
It is about time that our community gets/has a good role model or two instead of "Apu" on the Simpsons that everyone in America watches.
I remember when that first aired, all the kids were imitating "Apu's" voice, "Jess of Cooooorse bery bery goood".
I'd have less of a problem if it was a doctor with that accent-at least he isnt being viewed by mainstream America in a negative way.
Yes I know, it is only a cartoon/caricature however that is an example of covert ethnic prejudice (i.e., 'it is only a joke dude', 'jeez man it's only a cartoon take it easy'). Yadda yadda yadda

I think the implied context was a university setting.

Whoever was bizznitching about 'Indian's born in America' are 'backstabbing' etc., doesnt really seem to be 'socialized' too well. The social dynamics that this person mentions are seen in every ETHNIC group, however you will find a more insidious (hidden, not exposed, slow onset, creeps up on ya from nowhere) form of it in the WASPs. Dude you need to live a little. Sorry for being judgemental and presumptive but you opened the door chief. Every culture/ethnicity has their backstabbers etc and every ethnicity has their racists etc too. These are just facts of life. Indians in India are either very nice, or not. In the end, be nice and get nice back (if ya want/need it).
Cheers

The title of the post from this message cracked me up. Thanks :laugh:

Yeah I wasnt too sure, but thanks.
I just wanted to make the point that even if you are a doctor, mainstream society will probably not see you as one outside of certain settings.

The 'Indian Professional' stereotype died out in the 80's when a lot of family class/economic migrants started to come out to North America. Thus was born the 'Kwiki Mart', 'NYC Cabbie' stereotypes.
However I am seeing a shift towards a professional stereotype again as parents are 'grooming' their children for success and the burgeoning tech sector has attracted 'educated Indians' from abroad once again.

I hope that the 'newer' Apnays can work hard and have their kids succeed as our parents did,no matter 'where' they come from.

I am just saying this as I have noticed that a significant number of Indian youth are getting into trouble and straying from school, sports and other things. Many are becoming punks.

Scary I sound like my dad and grandfather now.......yikes!

How many of you have ever heard the old story about how your dad/granddad had to study by lantern when the power would fail but you have it so easy and why did you only get 88% in Physics!!??

LOL :laugh: I was always embarrassed about Parent-Teacher Night at school since my dad would demand why I didnt get a 100%.
However I am glad he did say silly things like that. Some kids parents wouldnt even show up......
Any similar stories?

How many of you have ever heard the old story about how your dad/granddad had to study by lantern when the power would fail but you have it so easy and why did you only get 88% in Physics!!??

I've heard it. I have unbearable guilt for being the beneficiary of a good lightbulb.

seriously though, keep in mind all the indians coming here legally or illegally to do the grunt work in restaurants and factories, those who are just eeking out the mere minimum wage and then complain about how you are stereotyped in a university setting --- i wouldn't exactly complain about being perceived as educated, and especially of being stereotyped as a doctor, and i would consider myself lucky to be in that university setting to begin with -- count the number of premeds viewing any of these forums at any given time and then tell me it's such a bad stereotype. i really think instead of disassociating yourself from the indian community (it's sad that people have consciously done so) that we should take advantage of the fact that we are educated to help the less fortunate members of our community. I'm not talking about the guy sitting behind you who's getting a B+ in orgo who you think will backstab you for some reason if you study with him, i'm talking about all the blue-collar workers being abused daily. Indian lawyers as a group have done a lot to give back to our community by fighting for these workers for free, and often winning the cases --- everybody here discussing this topic should take some time to find groups and such that allow health professionals to give back. There has to be a niche. Where should I start searching? I think instead of tearing ourselves apart from within, we should all band together and do something more productive.

hai to all...... i am an indian too.......a dentist
take care .......

seriously though, keep in mind all the indians coming here legally or illegally to do the grunt work in restaurants and factories, those who are just eeking out the mere minimum wage and then complain about how you are stereotyped in a university setting --- i wouldn't exactly complain about being perceived as educated, and especially of being stereotyped as a doctor, and i would consider myself lucky to be in that university setting to begin with -- count the number of premeds viewing any of these forums at any given time and then tell me it's such a bad stereotype. i really think instead of disassociating yourself from the indian community (it's sad that people have consciously done so) that we should take advantage of the fact that we are educated to help the less fortunate members of our community. I'm not talking about the guy sitting behind you who's getting a B+ in orgo who you think will backstab you for some reason if you study with him, i'm talking about all the blue-collar workers being abused daily. Indian lawyers as a group have done a lot to give back to our community by fighting for these workers for free, and often winning the cases --- everybody here discussing this topic should take some time to find groups and such that allow health professionals to give back. There has to be a niche. Where should I start searching? I think instead of tearing ourselves apart from within, we should all band together and do something more productive.

I did not mean to imply that being stereotyped as a doctor is overly negative. Actually, my concern is similar to something you've mentioned in your post: that the majority of Indians aren't exceptionally educated - and might I add, "karmically aligned" upstanding individuals. My input on this subject is merely personal, but I've rarely heard anyone express the "cabbie" or "convenience store" sterotypes. Therefore, I always feel the need to point out that not all Indians are studious and upstanding. I extend this clarification to all racially associated sterotypes for all races.

As for helping out the downtrodden, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Yet, I would make a case for all people rather than degenerating into a worldview divided by racial and cultural lines. But assume for a minute that we concentrate solely on the Indians. In order to assist the less fortunate, one has to be in the right mindset: a mindset of nurture, empathy, understanding, and a desire to do good without consideration of personal profit. These are the qualities we should expect of our healthcare professionals. In my experience, however, a majority of Indians want to be doctors, dentists or pharmacists not because of a genuine concern for others, but because of motivations driven by such factors as familial and peer pressure, status and economic prospects. Of course, this isn't limited just to Indians; many other cultures create this sort of environment.

And might I point out that I would have just as readily dissociated myself from my native community were I born into another race. For years I have resolved to retain positive people in my life, ones with truly admirable qualities; these people come from all walks of life.

I am not averse to helping a fellow Indian or anyone else for that matter who I consider a friend or in the least a good person.
The Indian community does a great deal for its members, yet there is always the minority that are 'bad', greedy and uncharitable.
The Indian community is by far one of the most progressive, informed, talented, communities in the New World.
We range from janitors, to professors.
Every successive generation of Indians in the New World is usually better off than their parental generation.
However it seems to have reached a 'carrying capacity' in some places and some of the new generation are falling prey to the ills of society such as drugs, gangs and crime, and not to mention apathy in general.
We have a vital position in our communities to serve as positive role models.
I hope most of you will take up the cause and show to the children of tommorrow that they too can be successful.
:meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie:

The Indian community is by far one of the most progressive, informed, talented, communities in the New World.

Yup. Social climbers. :laugh:

Yup. Social climbers. :laugh:

Nothing wrong with that as long as you don't coitus anyone over.
More power to you!
:meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie:

I think you set your children up for failure if they're led to believe everyone can be a surgeon or a judge. Such fanciful thinking has detrimental effects on the psyche of a child unable to measure up to a conventional measure of success.

Therefore, I think it's more important for the next generation to look to "something beyond one's self", be kind, honest, hard working and above all else, happy. The latter is the best measure of success.

Nothing wrong with that as long as you don't coitus anyone over.
More power to you!
:meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie:

Did you mean 'don't **** someone over' or 'don't sleep around'?

Many people practice the former and what's wrong with the latter? Sexuality has been used to garner power for ages. :laugh:

Did you mean 'don't **** someone over' or 'don't sleep around'?

Many people practice the former and what's wrong with the latter? Sexuality has been used to garner power for ages. :laugh:

If you're a morally corrupt person I guess......... Real men get power the old fashioned way.
They just take it.
Then their wives deny them certain privileges and men are back to square one, powerless
Alas, I'd rather play that game than be a eunuch though.
Wow how sagacious of me, well not really I guess it is a no brainer.
Give up some power for some loving, and avoiding castration.............easy choice.

:meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie:

If you're a morally corrupt person I guess......... Real men get power the old fashioned way.
They just take it.
Then their wives deny them certain privileges and men are back to square one, powerless
Alas, I'd rather play that game than be a eunuch though.
Wow how sagacious of me, well not really I guess it is a no brainer.
Give up some power for some loving, and avoiding castration.............easy choice.

:meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie:

Believe me, there are plenty of guys who would marry rich were they given an opportunity. I'm sure there are lots of 'kept men' out there.

I can have the Mental Health Act invoked on me any minute.
I can see the men in white (MIW) with butterfly nets.......gotta run...
:meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie:

bump

.

I Wonder..........

/

I did not mean to imply that being stereotyped as a doctor is overly negative. Actually, my concern is similar to something you've mentioned in your post: that the majority of Indians aren't exceptionally educated - and might I add, "karmically aligned" upstanding individuals. My input on this subject is merely personal, but I've rarely heard anyone express the "cabbie" or "convenience store" sterotypes. Therefore, I always feel the need to point out that not all Indians are studious and upstanding. I extend this clarification to all racially associated sterotypes for all races.



Thank god. When will people learn that ALL stereotypes are harmful.

Some guy was claiming 50% of indians in america are doctors, was called on it, and then refused to believe anything below 30%. How absurd. In the U.S. Census, "Asian" refers to people having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent.

(total physicians = 884,974)

Race/Ethnicity Number Percentage
White 421,659 (47.8%)
Black 20,653 (2.3%)
Hispanic 27,935 (3.2%)
Asian 73,152 (8.3%)
American Native/Alaska Native 504 (.06%)
Other 20,011 (2.3%)
Unknown 321,060 (36%)
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/12930.html

Consider that "unknown" may have decent shares of every ethnicity. But just for the sake of argument, we'll say they make up 1/2 of all Asians and 1/2 of all "unknown" (probably a vast overestimation). That means 4.1% + 19% = less than a quarter. 23% of 885,000 is 200,000. Unless there's less than 700,000 indians living in the U.S. out of the total of 300 million (which would be <0.3% of the U.S. population), way way way less than 30% of indians in America are doctors. The numbers I've seen suggest at least 1.7 million indians in America, which would put make our rough estimate of 200,000 indian physicians about 10%. Now, I used very generous estimates for this. The real number is probably much lower, I'm sure you all realize.

If anyone has the actual numbers, I'd love to see them. The point is that 1) stereotypes are harmful, misleading, divisive, arbitrary, unfair, and flat out insulting, 2) being proud of your culture is one thing, being ethnocentric to the point of distorting and overinflating your numbers in arguably the most coveted, rigorous, respected, and prestigious careers is just...pathetic.

i am a final year medical student(intern
)in india...i plan to give my step 1 soon...
and m thinking of doing some elective postings i.e externship from some good university in US....
my doubts>>
*1 what if dont choose the branch later on...like now i am confused in between Psychiatry and paediatrics.
so if the LORS are from a different department...then??like....i do it in psychiatry and i want a residency in paeds later on??

*2 m a female student...wud paediatrics be too tuff a branch there...besides would visa be a problem for an unmarried girl?housing and all wud have to be arranged prior naa?

*3 california letter ...is dat a tuff thing to get? wat if i do my elective from california and dont get my residency there??? the LOR would still count naa?

*4 sure LOR milega??

*5 publicaions >>>> how do i get these things...

*6 electives available in harward are too costly....3,100 tution fees per month....plus application fees and all....is it worth the moolah???cause i fear harward school woudl give me a residency ever!!!!


m new at this forum...all help needed...m a little unexperienced to theis forum so all apologies for a 6 numbered doubtful post!!!

thanks in advance:D

hi all
delighted to see a forum like this - :thumbup:
I request please do not fight over trivial issues like no. of Indian doctors.
We are and will continue to rise higher at good posts everywhere because of our hardwork ....
I 'VE POSTED A THREAD REGARDING DDS IN INTERNATIONAL FORUM DENTISTRY .... so those of you my people out there please reply to it ..
regards and wishes;)
time xyz

I am Indian. My family has been in Fiji for four generations now.

I am Indian. My family has been in Fiji for four generations now.

Hello everybody,
I'm from Bangalore. Now in San Jose CA. I matched in Metropolitan Hospital center - New York. Anybody matched there? or anyone know current residents there? There is no website for the program so unable to know about many things.
Thanks in advance.
-Kushma

Of course there are many Indians out here...After all, it is Medicine :laugh:

Add me to that list of conformists :laugh: ...MSII in the MD/MBA Program at Texas Tech

I hate this attitude. The whole, "oh gosh, all indian people are doctors...how funny! We're all so smart and accomplished! It's just a given that all indian people become doctors!" B.S. You know what? India is the most populous country in the world (pretty much tied with China). The U.S. has the best medical training and quality healthcare in the world. It's not a big shock that the U.S. drains doctors from all the other parts of the world, roughly in proportion to the populations of those countries.

That is to say, if the U.S. attracts 10% of the doctors from every other country (an oversimplification, but illustrative nonetheless), you should have 10% of indian doctors, 10% of chinese doctors, 10% of colombian doctors, etc. Since India's and China's population is 3x the next highest country (U.S.), of course you're going to have more indian doctors (10% of 1 billion is a lot more than 10% of 200,000) than other ethnicities. But don't try to tell us it's for any other reason than that you're outbreeding everyone else. It's insulting and ethnocentric. Indian people are just like everyone else. I like them, but they're no better or worse than any other race.

while i agree with your logic, you are forgetting that people are easily swayed by what they see.

your previous statistics indicate that asians make up nearly 9% of the medical profession, but barely make up 2% of the American population. you therefore have overrepresentation by the Asians, which lead to such stereotypes.

while wrong, it is not necessarily unfounded. for example, in a random sample of one thousand individuals, anyone would be more inclined to pick asians on greater numbers than their actual representation of the american population, because 9% is greater than 2%.

some minorities are overrepresented in medicine undoubtedly, and the next natural step for most people is to question why.

it's not my place to give reason or comment on the correctness or wrongness, but just pointing a hole in your assertions

while i agree with your logic, you are forgetting that people are easily swayed by what they see.

your previous statistics indicate that asians make up nearly 9% of the medical profession, but barely make up 2% of the American population. you therefore have overrepresentation by the Asians, which lead to such stereotypes.

while wrong, it is not necessarily unfounded. for example, in a random sample of one thousand individuals, anyone would be more inclined to pick asians on greater numbers than their actual representation of the american population, because 9% is greater than 2%.

some minorities are overrepresented in medicine undoubtedly, and the next natural step for most people is to question why.

it's not my place to give reason or comment on the correctness or wrongness, but just pointing a hole in your assertions

Again - the reason why is because the U.S. attracts a large amount of physicians and ambitious people from other countries. What's erroneous is when people take that a step further (a step too far) and say that therefore indians are more hardworking, more intelligent, or more successful than other people in America.

You may be able to say 1) immigrants are more likely to be either physicians themselves who seek opportunity in the U.S.'s worldclass healthcare education and practice, or 2) immigrants are more likely to be particularly ambitious compared to their counterparts in their home country, thus set ambitious goals for their children. But you can't say "indian people are better suited to be doctors in some way" (I know you weren't saying that, but some people imply it).

Think of it this way. If you were to take the top 10% of EVERY country and put them all on the moon, I think we should all agree that they'd all be of the same intelligence and success. It's wrong and harmful to say (or imply) that one race is more intelligent or hardworking than another. That's it. The fact that some minorities are perhaps overrepresented should be noted, but interpreted with caution. An abundance of harmful repercussions would arise out of stereotypes based on such things.

i agree with your conclusions but not your logic.

64% of Indians in America have a bachelors or higher, the highest out of any racial minority in the United States
60% Indians are in management, professional, or related services, way ahead of other Asian minorities, and almost double of American-born individuals
Indian men bring home the highest pay of any minority
indian families bring home the second highest gross income, a hundred dollars behind the Japanese, but well over any other minority.

Indians are most likely to be married, least likely to be divorced, and are the highest educated minority in america

all of these stats are not explained by your top 10% immigrants theory, because indians and japanese consistently prove to be way ahead of all other minorities, including chinese, vietnamese, african, spanish, european, etc.

the statistics clearly show indians are an extremely successful minority, moreso than others.

all this, i believe, stems from the culture, however. the indian household places education a priority from upbringing, and holds these virtues well into adulthood. the divorce statistics mirrors how indians generally look down upon divorcees and "spinsters". the pay a corollary of indian-beliefs of importance within professional school.

it's not that the united states recruits the top 10% of each nation. i think its generally in the upper half, but not all of the most intelligent indians have the resources to migrate half the world. it's actually these values that result in such successes.

similar values can be seen in certain other cultures, including japanese and other asian. that's why you see these races consistently beating the American mean for standards of lifestyle.

64% of Indians in America have a bachelors or higher, the highest out of any racial minority in the United States.

Again, if you're skimming the best ~10% from a much larger population, you have a lot more people to be picky about. Think about it like medical school admissions. If a school gets 9,000 applications (assume that said school is all of their top choice) and another school gets 2,000 applications (again assume that said second school is all the 2,000 applicants' first choice), if they both pick the best 100, the school with more applicants to pick from is going to end up with better students.

60% Indians are in management, professional, or related services, way ahead of other Asian minorities, and almost double of American-born individuals

Again, the indian immigrants TO America are likely to be generally of a higher caliber than the population of India. That is to say, people who are ambitious and successful and capable will seek out opportunities, i.e. America. Please tell me you don't want to compare indians in India to Americans in America....because not only are you treading on thin ice on offending people in some sort of juvenile ethnic pissing match, but we'd be comparing apples to oranges. But we can compare objective measures of quality of life of India and the U.S. if you'd like. The "fact" that (if) indians are higher in management positions than American-born individuals merely confirms the idea that the U.S. attracts such people, because significant barriers to immigration to the U.S. (or emmigration from India) probably exist to keep a representative sample of India from coming.

Your competitiveness with other "Asian minorities" should really only talk about China. If you want to say "we're better than Chinese people living in America, fine, show me some numbers and I'll acquiesce that you're right, albeit petty.


Indian men bring home the highest pay of any minority

Strange thing to brag about. If you want to talk gender equality issues in the indian community compared to American, I think you'd find that a losing battle.

indian families bring home the second highest gross income, a hundred dollars behind the Japanese, but well over any other minority.


Again, strange thing to brag about. India has 10x the population of Japan, but falls second to them in income? What happened to all those college degrees and management positions you were talking about? Are you saying that indian people are less able to use their degrees to make a living?

Indians are most likely to be married, least likely to be divorced, and are the highest educated minority in america


Most likely to be married? Could that have something to do with the intense social and familial pressure to marry and not to get divorced? Could it be that the concept of arranged marriages has only been partly replaced by a near-crazed compulsion to put such pressure on children to wed to the point that even American born indians feel it's wrong, but go along with it out of fear of being disowned? Maybe something like that? I know you wanted to imply that it was because indians are have stronger values and are more loyal or less likely to be dysfunctional, but that's insulting so I'll pretend you didn't.

all of these stats are not explained by your top 10% immigrants theory, because indians and japanese consistently prove to be way ahead of all other minorities, including chinese, vietnamese, african, spanish, european, etc.

Fine, whatever pal. You're the BEST minority ever! My only question is this - how insulting would you find it if I went over to India and started making claims about how much better white people are than every other ethnicity in the country? How do you think a strong person of Chinese descent feels when you claim superiority? Do you know what we call claiming ethnic superiority is in America? Racism.

the statistics clearly show indians are an extremely successful minority, moreso than others.


Correction - you claimed indians are superior to American-born Americans too. Might as well throw everyone in as inferior to you.

all this, i believe, stems from the culture, however. the indian household places education a priority from upbringing, and holds these virtues well into adulthood. the divorce statistics mirrors how indians generally look down upon divorcees and "spinsters". the pay a corollary of indian-beliefs of importance within professional school.


Maybe that's your interpretation. My interpretation, AGAIN, is that since the group of indians in America represent a sample from the higher (perhaps highest) echelons of the indian population, of COURSE they're more likely to be successful, because the assumption is that all ethnicities are pretty much equal. If you were to compare the intelligence, success, and ambition of a group of Americans, or asians, that is from an EQUIVALENT (relatively speaking) social class or background to that we see in indian immigrants, I think we'd see that they ARE all equal....take medical school classes for example....at the very least I think you would be wise to start giving everyone the benefit of the doubt that their upbringing was just as value-laden as yours, and that every person deserves the same dose of respect or lack thereof without regard to their ethnicity. No one wants to hear about why you think your ethnicity is better than all the rest.

it's not that the united states recruits the top 10% of each nation. i think its generally in the upper half, but not all of the most intelligent indians have the resources to migrate half the world. it's actually these values that result in such successes.


This paragraph didn't make a whole lot of sense. If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the U.S. recruits from roughly the upper half of the indian population, fine. Your guess is as good as mine. But your next statement was cryptic, are you trying to say that the fact that the U.S. recruits from the upper realms of indian population correlates to "such successes"? Because that's what I've been saying. Any discrepancies based on race are most likely due to sampling error. Surely you didn't waste all that time posting just to agree with me at the end....


similar values can be seen in certain other cultures, including japanese and other asian. that's why you see these races consistently beating the American mean for standards of lifestyle.

Whew. I knew you weren't going to leave me unsatisfied and say something sane as a conclusion. "Consistently beating the American mean for standards of lifestyle". Wow. That's so offensive and so completely incorrect that honestly, it doesn't warrant a response.

Let me try one last time. See if that extra intelligence your ethnicity grants you can follow 1)the U.S. attracts top people from massively populous countries, 2) giving all ethnicities the benefit of the doubt, we assume all ethnicities being attracted are of equal intelligence, values, and ambition, 3) a comparable cross-section of Americans that would be equivalent to the indians who have the means, background, and ambition to emmigrate to America would measure roughly the same as the indian population in America.

Here.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=388181

whoa buddy, whether i was unclear, or you're lacking in comprehension, either way you completely missed the point.
and don't be so quick to label me a racist when i report actual numbers

Again, if you're skimming the best ~10% from a much larger population, you have a lot more people to be picky about. Think about it like medical school admissions. If a school gets 9,000 applications (assume that said school is all of their top choice) and another school gets 2,000 applications (again assume that said second school is all the 2,000 applicants' first choice), if they both pick the best 100, the school with more applicants to pick from is going to end up with better students.


i agree with this. my point is that indians, of all minorities WITHIN THE UNITED STATES, and including Americans as well, are the most educated and highest paid. when every minority derives itself from the top 10%, according to you, or upper half, my view, of their respective nation, they should all be equally successful. but indians and japanese consistenly prove far ahead of any other. THAT'S where your top 10% argument fails.


Again, the indian immigrants TO America are likely to be generally of a higher caliber than the population of India. That is to say, people who are ambitious and successful and capable will seek out opportunities, i.e. America. Please tell me you don't want to compare indians in India to Americans in America....because not only are you treading on thin ice on offending people in some sort of juvenile ethnic pissing match, but we'd be comparing apples to oranges. But we can compare objective measures of quality of life of India and the U.S. if you'd like. The "fact" that (if) indians are higher in management positions than American-born individuals merely confirms the idea that the U.S. attracts such people, because significant barriers to immigration to the U.S. (or emmigration from India) probably exist to keep a representative sample of India from coming.


again, read what i wrote above. i'm not comparing indians in india to americans in america; you're right, that's not even apples to oranges, it's like comparing strawberries in ice cream to canteloupe in a manure field.


Your competitiveness with other "Asian minorities" should really only talk about China. If you want to say "we're better than Chinese people living in America, fine, show me some numbers and I'll acquiesce that you're right, albeit petty.


The numbers I reported in a previous post represent the state of INDIANS IN AMERICA, not indians in india. these numbers are far greater than any other minority, including chinese, with the exception in certain fields to the japanese, which i noted clearly


Strange thing to brag about. If you want to talk gender equality issues in the indian community compared to American, I think you'd find that a losing battle.


you mistook me. i'm showing how indians in general make more than others in america. this, however, can be attributable to the 10% theory. but the 10% theory doesnt explain why they make more than other minorities.

AND the figures are equally impressive for indian women, albeit they aren't the highest paid minority, second to japanese i believe
btw, japanese men are second to indian men and it's pretty much the same in terms of salary.

if you want to talk about gender equality, i think it'd be quite difficult to find an indian girl in this present generation who is discouraged from education/attaining a job due to her gender. that old-world mentality died iwth the previous generation, and although exists in india in certain places, does not here.


Again, strange thing to brag about. India has 10x the population of Japan, but falls second to them in income? What happened to all those college degrees and management positions you were talking about? Are you saying that indian people are less able to use their degrees to make a living?


indians in america vs. japanese in america. and we're talking average here buddy. so large numbers don't apply when comparing averages.


Most likely to be married? Could that have something to do with the intense social and familial pressure to marry and not to get divorced? Could it be that the concept of arranged marriages has only been partly replaced by a near-crazed compulsion to put such pressure on children to wed to the point that even American born indians feel it's wrong, but go along with it out of fear of being disowned? Maybe something like that? I know you wanted to imply that it was because indians are have stronger values and are more loyal or less likely to be dysfunctional, but that's insulting so I'll pretend you didn't.


i admitted the pressures of marriage in our culture. but the values thing i disagree with. indians undoubtedly place extremely high value on education. much moreso than most other cultures, and that, in my opinion, is a reason for their success


Fine, whatever pal. You're the BEST minority ever! My only question is this - how insulting would you find it if I went over to India and started making claims about how much better white people are than every other ethnicity in the country? How do you think a strong person of Chinese descent feels when you claim superiority? Do you know what we call claiming ethnic superiority is in America? Racism.


I didn't say superiority. I gave numbers indicating how successful indians in america were. you assumed superiority from my words. i never said any such thing. i attribute the success to the high value on education that not all cultures share.

the cultures that do however, consistenly portray successful stats.


Correction - you claimed indians are superior to American-born Americans too. Might as well throw everyone in as inferior to you.


nope - you did. i just said the numbers indicate indians are more successful. and when 1 in 9 is a millionare, yes, they clearly are successful.


Maybe that's your interpretation. My interpretation, AGAIN, is that since the group of indians in America represent a sample from the higher (perhaps highest) echelons of the indian population, of COURSE they're more likely to be successful, because the assumption is that all ethnicities are pretty much equal. If you were to compare the intelligence, success, and ambition of a group of Americans, or asians, that is from an EQUIVALENT (relatively speaking) social class or background to that we see in indian immigrants, I think we'd see that they ARE all equal....take medical school classes for example....at the very least I think you would be wise to start giving everyone the benefit of the doubt that their upbringing was just as value-laden as yours, and that every person deserves the same dose of respect or lack thereof without regard to their ethnicity. No one wants to hear about why you think your ethnicity is better than all the rest.


see the above why the 10% rule didn't make sense


Whew. I knew you weren't going to leave me unsatisfied and say something sane as a conclusion. "Consistently beating the American mean for standards of lifestyle". Wow. That's so offensive and so completely incorrect that honestly, it doesn't warrant a response.


yes, they consistently beat the mean salary, education, etc. it's like saying men consistently illustrate taller means than women. is that offensive? meh, not my place to answer, but its true


Let me try one last time. See if that extra intelligence your ethnicity grants you can follow 1)the U.S. attracts top people from massively populous countries, 2) giving all ethnicities the benefit of the doubt, we assume all ethnicities being attracted are of equal intelligence, values, and ambition, 3) a comparable cross-section of Americans that would be equivalent to the indians who have the means, background, and ambition to emmigrate to America would measure roughly the same as the indian population in America.


i never said being indian grants intelligence. i said their familial value on education from childhood makes them intelligent.

in summary, dont jump to conclusions, and cool down a little. the numbers presented were stats from indians in america, and are higher than for any other ethicity in the nation. 10% rule indicates all minorities should be roughly equal, when the numbers indicate otherwise.

i equate it with VALUES. this seems to be a hot button to set off your incredibly short temper, so before you start blowin your fuse, i say again, VALUE ON EDUCATION that not all cultures share.

whoa buddy, whether i was unclear, or you're lacking in comprehension, either way you completely missed the point.
and don't be so quick to label me a racist when i report actual numbers



i agree with this. my point is that indians, of all minorities WITHIN THE UNITED STATES, and including Americans as well, are the most educated and highest paid. when every minority derives itself from the top 10%, according to you, or upper half, my view, of their respective nation, they should all be equally successful. but indians and japanese consistenly prove far ahead of any other. THAT'S where your top 10% argument fails.



again, read what i wrote above. i'm not comparing indians in india to americans in america; you're right, that's not even apples to oranges, it's like comparing strawberries in ice cream to canteloupe in a manure field.



The numbers I reported in a previous post represent the state of INDIANS IN AMERICA, not indians in india. these numbers are far greater than any other minority, including chinese, with the exception in certain fields to the japanese, which i noted clearly



you mistook me. i'm showing how indians in general make more than others in america. this, however, can be attributable to the 10% theory. but the 10% theory doesnt explain why they make more than other minorities.

AND the figures are equally impressive for indian women, albeit they aren't the highest paid minority, second to japanese i believe
btw, japanese men are second to indian men and it's pretty much the same in terms of salary.

if you want to talk about gender equality, i think it'd be quite difficult to find an indian girl in this present generation who is discouraged from education/attaining a job due to her gender. that old-world mentality died iwth the previous generation, and although exists in india in certain places, does not here.



indians in america vs. japanese in america. and we're talking average here buddy. so large numbers don't apply when comparing averages.



i admitted the pressures of marriage in our culture. but the values thing i disagree with. indians undoubtedly place extremely high value on education. much moreso than most other cultures, and that, in my opinion, is a reason for their success



I didn't say superiority. I gave numbers indicating how successful indians in america were. you assumed superiority from my words. i never said any such thing. i attribute the success to the high value on education that not all cultures share.

the cultures that do however, consistenly portray successful stats.



nope - you did. i just said the numbers indicate indians are more successful. and when 1 in 9 is a millionare, yes, they clearly are successful.



see the above why the 10% rule didn't make sense



yes, they consistently beat the mean salary, education, etc. it's like saying men consistently illustrate taller means than women. is that offensive? meh, not my place to answer, but its true



i never said being indian grants intelligence. i said their familial value on education from childhood makes them intelligent.

in summary, dont jump to conclusions, and cool down a little. the numbers presented were stats from indians in america, and are higher than for any other ethicity in the nation. 10% rule indicates all minorities should be roughly equal, when the numbers indicate otherwise.

i equate it with VALUES. this seems to be a hot button to set off your incredibly short temper, so before you start blowin your fuse, i say again, VALUE ON EDUCATION that not all cultures share.

Well, I'm obviously bored enough to respond, so I'm bored enough to care apparently. I just think you're not really getting my point, and obviously I'm not getting yours, if it exists. C'est la vie.