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DEPENDS. Comparing specialties, it is tougher than Internal Medicine, Psychiatry, Pediatrics or Family Medicine but easier than the other specialties. A good number of IMGs get into Surgery each year. Many IMGs start with Preliminary Surgery and then move on to Categorical Surgery.

DEPENDS. Comparing specialties, it is tougher than Internal Medicine, Psychiatry, Pediatrics or Family Medicine but easier than the other specialties. A good number of IMGs get into Surgery each year. Many IMGs start with Preliminary Surgery and then move on to Categorical Surgery.

When u say they move to a categorical surgery, do u mean they start a gen surgery residency and then switch to a specialized surgery residency?

No. A preliminary surgery spot is a position only held for one year with no guarantee of anything afterwards. With a catergorical spot you can assume you will eventually finish your residency and become a surgeon.

so when a2h says they move to catergorical he means that many IMGs start off in an insecure year long preliminary spot and manage to secure a categorical spot afterwards, thus ensuring they can actually complete a residency.

I hope I'm right ;)

No. A preliminary surgery spot is a position only held for one year with no guarantee of anything afterwards. With a catergorical spot you can assume you will eventually finish your residency and become a surgeon.

so when a2h says they move to catergorical he means that many IMGs start off in an insecure year long preliminary spot and manage to secure a categorical spot afterwards, thus ensuring they can actually complete a residency.

I hope I'm right ;)

So is the preliminary spot a spot in the surgical field that u want to do ur residency in or is it a general surgical spot? So are u going into the preliminary surgery spot for a specific field or is it general where after completion you decide which field of surgery you would like to do?

So is the preliminary spot a spot in the surgical field that u want to do ur residency in or is it a general surgical spot? So are u going into the preliminary surgery spot for a specific field or is it general where after completion you decide which field of surgery you would like to do?

As far as I know, the only reason you would seek a preliminary general surgery spot is if (i) You are going into a speciality that 'starts' in PGY-2 (ie. they leave you up to your own devices for your first year essentially) or (ii) You can't get a categorical spot [that you want].

Preliminary surgery spots are in general surgery. I do not know if other types of surgery have preliminary spots but I doubt it (or at least I never read about it on SDN).

As far as I know, the only reason you would seek a preliminary general surgery spot is if (i) You are going into a speciality that 'starts' in PGY-2 (ie. they leave you up to your own devices for your first year essentially) or (ii) You can't get a categorical spot [that you want].

Preliminary surgery spots are in general surgery. I do not know if other types of surgery have preliminary spots but I doubt it (or at least I never read about it on SDN).

So would someone doing a preliminary general surgery (is it called PGY-1?) switch into a neurosurgery or orthopediac surgery or anyother specialized surgery?

People who go into Neurosurgery,ortho,ENT,Urology generally match directly into these fields,they do several years of general surgey integrated into their program,usually do not seek a prelim surg.Prelim surgery is for those who want 1 year prior to anesthesiology,rads etc (although a year of medicine is ok as well).
There are not many reasons to do a prelim surgery year as it does not lead to anything directly,which is why many slots go unmatched and they are not competitive.Sometimes if you do a great job a prelim surgery year can lead to a categorical suregy position.This is not guaranteed and some have to repeat the internship.

People who go into Neurosurgery,ortho,ENT,Urology generally match directly into these fields,they do several years of general surgey integrated into their program,usually do not seek a prelim surg.Prelim surgery is for those who want 1 year prior to anesthesiology,rads etc (although a year of medicine is ok as well).
There are not many reasons to do a prelim surgery year as it does not lead to anything directly,which is why many slots go unmatched and they are not competitive.Sometimes if you do a great job a prelim surgery year can lead to a categorical suregy position.This is not guaranteed and some have to repeat the internship.

So if you do a year of preliminary surgery are u supposed to apply to residency programs again once you complete the year?

Purifyer is right. I meant that many IMGs who cannot land a Categorical General Surgery position start with a Preliminary Surgery position (which is far easier to get) and then move to a Categorical General Surgery position afterwards. Some are lucky to get a PGY-2 spot (depends on the openings - someone changes his/her mind and leaves a Categorical residency), while many have to start from PGY-1 in Categorical Surgery. That's an extra year but for those who are desperate to get into Surgery, it might be worth it. Some are unsuccessful in getting a Categorical position and move on to the less-competitive specialties like Internal Medicine. A few desperate people repeat the Preliminary year in the hope of landing a Categorical position the next year. (That's two extra years!). Of course, you have to apply all over again in September of your Preliminary year. If you do a good job, your own program might take you for a Categorical position starting next year. But you will know this late in the year and so you have to apply anyways. It is theoretically possible to move on to a PGY-2 position in any specialty requiring a PGY-1 Preliminary year (Ophthalmology, Anesthesiology, Radiology) but these PGY-2 positions would be very tough to land, more so for an IMG who could not get a Categorical Surgery position in the first place. :)

Purifyer is right. I meant that many IMGs who cannot land a Categorical General Surgery position start with a Preliminary Surgery position (which is far easier to get) and then move to a Categorical General Surgery position afterwards. Some are lucky to get a PGY-2 spot (depends on the openings - someone changes his/her mind and leaves a Categorical residency), while many have to start from PGY-1 in Categorical Surgery. That's an extra year but for those who are desperate to get into Surgery, it might be worth it. Some are unsuccessful in getting a Categorical position and move on to the less-competitive specialties like Internal Medicine. A few desperate people repeat the Preliminary year in the hope of landing a Categorical position the next year. (That's two extra years!). Of course, you have to apply all over again in September of your Preliminary year. If you do a good job, your own program might take you for a Categorical position starting next year. But you will know this late in the year and so you have to apply anyways. It is theoretically possible to move on to a PGY-2 position in any specialty requiring a PGY-1 Preliminary year (Ophthalmology, Anesthesiology, Radiology) but these PGY-2 positions would be very tough to land, more so for an IMG who could not get a Categorical Surgery position in the first place. :)

O ok, i see.