I was wondering about my chances of getting into ANY ortho residency but preferably one in the Philly area. My step 1 was 230, my preclinical grades were alright (a few honors here and there), I have 2 years of research prior to medical school with multiple publications (no first authors) in a heme/onc department. I have my surgical rotation in the winter but can't take an ortho elective until my fourth year. And I don't know if this matters but I played linebacker in highschool and one year in college, got into powerlifting for a couple of years after that and then boxing for a couple of years. Although I never been around ortho people before, I heard they were kind of like the jocks of the medical field and I have been having a hard time fitting in with most people in the medical field mainly because they are so unlike the high testosterone driven people I am used to being around. This by the way is one of the main reasons why I am interested in ortho. Also, I heard that you should decide early for ortho. Is it too late for me? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Also, does anyone know whether or not ortho residents still get to the gym at least twice a week?

I assume you're a 3rd year, so it's definitely not too late. Ortho is a good field, but competitive. Talk to an advisor early, and try to get some ortho research when you have time. Your research from before med school will help, but as with all specialties, it helps to have research in your field of interest.

right now focus on getting lots of honors in 3rd year, especially surgery (also a high-testosterone environment). Do what you can to take an ortho elective as early as possible.

ortho is one of those fields where aways are very important, so sometime in the spring apply for a few at programs you'd be interested in.

that's all I can help you with, since I'm not applying for ortho. talk to the residents at your school and see what advice they have. if you have a gym on campus, that's where you'll find them.

Having recently gone through the ortho match, here are some suggestions:

1. Try to rack up as many 'honors' grades as you can third year.
2. Schedule an ortho AI at your home program as early in 4th year as possible (July or August), and get the all-important "honors" on this rotation. You do this by showing up early and staying late, helping out without being annoying, knowing the anatomy cold for the cases you scrub on, and generally being a cool person to work with.
3. In the spring of 3rd year, get on the phone with or write some programs where you might like to rotate and apply for aways. Many suggest that you rotate at one "dream shot" type place and one that's a bit less competitive.
4. Go all out on your aways and at your home AI, and try to get letters from the chair at each. Name recognition counts for quite a bit and having a letter from a 'name' is very helpful.
5. If you want, try and get involved with an ortho research project at your home institution. It's not too late to do this, and even if you don't publish off of it, you'll have fourth year to continue working on your project.
6. Be prepared to apply widely, i.e. on the order of 50 programs. If you land interviews at at least 10 or so, and come across well on those interviews, chances are you'll match.

I agree w/ the previous poster in that away rotations carry more weight in ortho than with any other specialty.

I'll stop there. You're still in the right time frame and it's not too late by any means. Please feel free to contact me if you have any more specific questions. Also, talk to the ortho interns at your home program; they've just been through the process and usually they're glad to field questions.

-NCH, PGY-1

To respond specifically to your questions:
-Don't limit yourself geographically
-Your score is fine
-Be prepared to explain "alright" preclinical grades (just be ready to talk about it; it certainly isn't dooming. There are MANY important factors besides these marks. Clinical rotations are more important)
-Any publications/research helps (mastery of concepts is more important than the title of a paper), but try to get some involvement within the field
-Do well on surgery
-Extracurricular activities help, but it doesn't have to be football or powerlifting!
-We're not all jocks. We do tend to be outgoing, content people with diverse interests that often enjoy active endeavors. We like to work hard so we can get out and do fun stuff.
-Yes, it seems most of my camrades are at the gym a lot. There's a phone there to return pages!
-I don't know about all this "high testosterone" stuff but fitting in is important. I really identified with the ortho residents when I was a student, and that was reassuring. I felt at home. That probably shouldn't be the main/only reason to become an orthopaedist - you've got to love the work.
-It's never too late!
-I'll echo the importance of hard work. Work Hard. Really impress people on your rotations. The students that stand out in my mind worked very hard. I always put in a good word for the student that honestly tried to be helpful, showed up first, left last, and was always enthusiastic. The person that knows all the answers but straggles in a little later never rises to the top like the person who was always there helping you out.
-Unfortunately, names/reputations are important. Try to set yourself up to get letters from influential faculty. Network a little.

Be prepared to explain "alright" preclinical grades (just be ready to talk about it; it certainly isn't dooming.
-

Really? I didn't know that they would even care about pre clinical grades, from what I've heard most programs dont care if you passed everythign or if you had 3 honros and 2 high passes adn passed the rest.

nero

It is a big stretch to think that admission committees wouldn't even care about preclinical grades. Sure, clinical grades are more important (amongst other things) but everything else is on your record and reflected upon in your dean's letter.

-Unfortunately, names/reputations are important. Try to set yourself up to get letters from influential faculty. Network a little.

How do you know who are the "influential faculty" or the "big names" in a particular field??
-Thanks

Stupid Question..what is a competitive Step one score for ortho? Thanks.

A competitive Step 1 score depends on the program to which you are applying. However, ortho is becoming competitive across the board, so this advice may apply less. Generally, I think that a 220-230 is a solid score for a good ortho program. >230 is probably a must for the competitive programs, as they will have more >250 applicants than they can interview. <220 and you will need some other high points to the application, like grades, research, away rotations, etc.

I would have to say that you need at least above 225 to make the Step I cut off at most programs. 230-240 will not hurt you and will not help you. >240 is a competitive score, but a lot of the people who gets multiple "interviews" are above 240. If you are below 220, you have to have something very very special in your application(like a phD, extensive research, mult pubs, past professional athlete, etc) to get a spot. This is just from my experience interviewing last year. And almost all the places I interviewed had ~100 apps per spot. My home school had 600 for 6 spots, the place I am at now had ~450 for 4 spots.

Random USMLE question...what is the highest score you can get? I've been looking all over for percentile information and can't find anything. The only thing I've found is that they discontinued using percentiles and that most scores are between 170 and 230 :rolleyes: Can anyone enlighten me?

The highest that's been recorded is 259/280. As far as averages, I think most people need to be in the 230's or higher for the competitive residencies.

Correction: Looks like the highest possible is 300, theoretically.
http://www.som.tulane.edu/studentaffairs/USMLE_QUESTIONS.html

I would like your opinions on my chances of matching into ortho programs in the Northeast (hopefully NYC). Below are my creds:

1) Nontraditional applicant: Minority applicant with Wall Street experience x 5 years prior to medical school
2) Attend top med school in the South
3) Excellent preclinical grades; currently an MSIII
4) 1 submitted ortho research paper and 1 in progress
4) Step 1: 228/92 (thought it would be higher; maybe I should ask for a rescore?)

Thanks for your opinions! :)
(I will post in both ortho and allo forums for variety of replies)

The highest that's been recorded is 259/280. As far as averages, I think most people need to be in the 230's or higher for the competitive residencies.

Correction: Looks like the highest possible is 300, theoretically.
http://www.som.tulane.edu/studentaffairs/USMLE_QUESTIONS.html

two students in my class scored above a 259--one was a 272--and thats the highest ive heard of.

secondly, there is a paper in JBJS, 84:2090-2096 published in 2002 about ortho resident selection criteria. i suggest anyone concerned about their application try to take a look at it for recent information thats a little more objective than opinions solicited on the internet.

lastly, remember these things are only correlations. a person that scores 240+ is likely going to have other impressive things on their CV just because they have (generally) more going intellectually. its not that some d-bag cant get a 250, or someone very bright cant get <200, its just a correlation. my point is that the emphasis on boards score, while important, probably reflects something more than JUST a boards score. an okay score probably won't ruin your app--a 250 doesnt make a d-bag anything more than a d-bag.

After reading this forum i have become really nervous about getting an ortho residency. I read the cutoff for step 1 is 230...i got a 227....am i going to get discarded because of 3 points? My grades in med school were honors&high pass, i have 2 research projects behind me...but I'm just really sad now...im a 3rd year, i guess you will say that i should take step 2 early...but if there is that cutoff, does it even matter what i get on step 2?

:(

After reading this forum i have become really nervous about getting an ortho residency. I read the cutoff for step 1 is 230...i got a 227....am i going to get discarded because of 3 points? My grades in med school were honors&high pass, i have 2 research projects behind me...but I'm just really sad now...im a 3rd year, i guess you will say that i should take step 2 early...but if there is that cutoff, does it even matter what i get on step 2?

:(

ppl have matched with 227 before. your score doesnt make you competitive, but you will have to have as many as the other goodies as possible (lots of clinical H's, possibly AOA, away rotations). studying hard and taking step ii early might help... no one truly knows.

After reading this forum i have become really nervous about getting an ortho residency. I read the cutoff for step 1 is 230...i got a 227....am i going to get discarded because of 3 points? My grades in med school were honors&high pass, i have 2 research projects behind me...but I'm just really sad now...im a 3rd year, i guess you will say that i should take step 2 early...but if there is that cutoff, does it even matter what i get on step 2?

:(


There is NO cutoff. Obviously you want your Step One to be as good as possible, but 227 is not bad and if you have extensive research and good grades you still have a shot. Working your ass off this year and on your electives next year is going to be key.

So if I got a 208 on step one should I even apply for ortho? Should I even apply for surgery? I really wanted to go into surgery. My GPA is 3.3 and I have no research. Would love some feedback.

So if I got a 208 on step one should I even apply for ortho? Should I even apply for surgery? I really wanted to go into surgery. My GPA is 3.3 and I have no research. Would love some feedback.

would not bother with ortho...your chances are dismal at best. you have a chance with g-surg, though you wont get into any great programs. take CK early and do well. honoring clerkships will help. doing a few aways will also help.

would not bother with ortho...your chances are dismal at best. you have a chance with g-surg, though you wont get into any great programs. take CK early and do well. honoring clerkships will help. doing a few aways will also help.

would disagree with the sentiment of this post. while a 208 makes it very difficult to get an ortho spot, it still isn't out of the question. yes it is a big risk to go for it, but it is possible. step 1 is not all of your application. there are other factors such as grades, research, step 2, letters of rec, dean's letter, interview, and most importantly AWAY ROTATIONS. granted, getting into one of the "top" programs, whatever that may be, will be somewhat difficult, but if a 208 was the only blemish, you rocked step 2, and did very well on your 4th year ortho rotations, then you have a shot.

so if ortho is what you want to do, buckle down and you can do it.

would disagree with the sentiment of this post. while a 208 makes it very difficult to get an ortho spot, it still isn't out of the question. yes it is a big risk to go for it, but it is possible. step 1 is not all of your application. there are other factors such as grades, research, step 2, letters of rec, dean's letter, interview, and most importantly AWAY ROTATIONS. granted, getting into one of the "top" programs, whatever that may be, will be somewhat difficult, but if a 208 was the only blemish, you rocked step 2, and did very well on your 4th year ortho rotations, then you have a shot.

so if ortho is what you want to do, buckle down and you can do it.

mid 220's is the lowest score ive heard of for current ortho residents--and there are only a few of those. i know of applicants with lower scores who applied broadly and received only a few interviews. true, if ortho is your thang... and its the only thing that would ever work for you... then i guess you dont have a choice. i suspect though that matching with such a low score would be very, very difficult. id really like to hear if anyone has heard of ppl matching w/ scores less than the mean. if you do apply, then you definitely need to spend a lot more time working on some sort of back-up plan.

i think the unfortunate thing (and the main reason for my last post) is that its hard to apply to two specialties (like ortho with a g-surg backup) and be serious about either. surgery is kind of an 'all in' thing... for instance, its hard to explain to a g-surg PD why you did 16 weeks of ortho in your fourth year, but you really want to do lap choles for the rest of your life.

just my opinion, but if my step I were less than 220, i wouldnt bother to apply. guess i have a phobia of failure or uncertainty...

so if ortho is what you want to do, buckle down and you can do it.

this is the worst advice I have ever heard. you're probably that same d-bag on PartyPoker that goes 'all-in' with a 4-6 offsuit. You could flop a straight, but the chances are so low....

Like your 4-6 offsuit, with a 208, you are toast. T-O-A-S-T. I have never even HEARD of anyone even getting ONE interview with a score that low. At my program, you aren't even allowed to ROTATE here as a student unless you have a 220 (so you don't waste your time) and this isn't some elite east-coast residency. The guy asking the question is 12 points away from that!

Woowoo, stop giving bad advice to people on a subject that you know nothing about. From your prior posts, it's clear that you are about 4 weeks into your M3 year. You just got done taking Step 1 and obviously don't know anything about the reality of applying to residency. Let's see if you would bet YOUR future on a 4-6 offsuit or a 208.

[QUOTE=Debridement]this is the worst advice I have ever heard. you're probably that same d-bag on PartyPoker that goes 'all-in' with a 4-6 offsuit. You could flop a straight, but the chances are so low....

Like your 4-6 offsuit, with a 208, you are toast. T-O-A-S-T. I have never even HEARD of anyone even getting ONE interview with a score that low. At my program, you aren't even allowed to ROTATE here as a student unless you have a 220 (so you don't waste your time) and this isn't some elite east-coast residency. The guy asking the question is 12 points away from that!

Woowoo, stop giving bad advice to people on a subject that you know nothing about. From your prior posts, it's clear that you are about 4 weeks into your M3 year. You just got done taking Step 1 and obviously don't know anything about the reality of applying to residency. Let's see if you would bet YOUR future on a 4-6 offsuit or a 208.[/QUote)

do you really think that i was just making things up? i know of 2 people personally that are currently ortho residents with sub 220's step scores, and have read a few other accounts on here and orthogate of sub 220's who are now residents. but you are right, since YOU have never heard of anyone getting an interview with a sub220, then you definitely don't have a shot at getting one, b/c YOU said so. believe it or not, just b/c you haven't HEARD of someone getting an interview with a sub220, it does really happen, and yes, people do get spots with step 1 scores in that range sometimes.

Fine. Let me qualify my comments.

1) I actually AM an ortho resident. (And not a DO or an FMG)
2) I know all of the residents in MY program
3) I know all the guys who graduated from my program in the last few years
4) I know all the fellows in my program
5) I know a handful of the residents in the program across town.
6) I know all the people from my medical school class who went into ortho.
7) I met most of the residents at the 3 programs I rotated at, including the one from my medical school.
8) I know/remember a lot of the guys from the interview trail.

So, based on all of those people and all of those meetings, I have personally never met or heard of anyone with a sub-220 who matched into ortho. I know of a handful that were 220-230.

So these boards or orthogate, which draw from a huge pool of posters (all of the US), may have one or two fairy-tale stories of love and redemption with the underdog coming out on top, but I want whoever reads this to not get the false impression that this sort of miracle is commonplace.

I remember being an applicant and it was a very stressful time. A few people from my class didnt match (GSurg and Ortho) and it is the worst thing ever for a medical student. I don't want anyone to have to go through that. Thinking that theyr'e going to get into ortho with a 208 is teeing them up for that.

Wondering if anyone knew what places higher in priority or if that even matters, in terms of comparing USMLE scores with elective evaluations?

thanks :)

Wondering if anyone knew what places higher in priority or if that even matters, in terms of comparing USMLE scores with elective evaluations?

thanks :)

Since people seem to ask this all the time, here are some highlights from:

Orthopaedic Resident-Selection Criteria
Adam D. Bernstein, MD, Laith M. Jazrawi, MD, Basil Elbeshbeshy, MD, Craig J. DellaValle, MD and Joseph D. Zuckerman, MD
The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery (American) 84:2090-2096 (2002)
© 2002 The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery, Inc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

TABLE I: Ranking of the Twenty-six Resident-Selection Criteria According to the Results of the Questionnaire Completed by Orthopaedic Residency Program Directors

Rank/ Score/ Resident-Selection Criteria


1 7.88 ± 1.71 (n = 109) Rotation at director's institution
2 7.78 ± 1.48 (n = 109) USMLE Part-I score
3 7.77 ± 1.34 (n = 108) Rank in medical school
4 7.55 ± 1.57 (n = 109) Formality/politeness at interview
5 7.35 ± 1.39 (n = 109) Personal appearance of candidate
6 7.11 ± 2.12 (n = 102) Performance on ethical questions at interview
7 7.01 ± 1.94 (n = 108) Letter of recommendation by orthopaedic surgeon
8 6.92 ± 1.90 (n = 109) Candidate is Alpha Omega Alpha member
9 6.47 ± 1.71 (n = 109) Medical school reputation
10 6.25 ± 2.10 (n = 109) Dean's letter
11 5.84 ± 2.26 (n = 108) Personal statement
12 5.74 ± 2.56 (n = 107) Failed first attempt at matching to an orthopaedic residency program
13 5.67 ± 2.46 (n = 106) Telephone call placed on candidate's behalf
14 5.66 ± 1.97 (n = 109) Candidate has published research
15 5.50 ± 2.14 (n = 108) Candidate participated in a dedicated research experience
16 5.13 ± 1.89 (n = 108) Letter of recommendation from nonorthopaedic surgeon
17 4.93 ± 2.20 (n = 109) Candidate is MD/PhD
18 4.83 ± 2.13 (n = 109) Reputation of undergraduate institution
19 4.61 ± 2.38 (n = 108) Undergraduate grade-point average
20 4.44 ± 2.16 (n = 107) Appearance of curriculum vitae
21 4.30 ± 2.15 (n = 109) Letter of recommendation from a senior resident
22 3.94 ± 2.48 (n = 109) Candidate has a relative affiliated with director's program
23 3.56 ± 2.12 (n = 108) Candidate has an undergraduate engineering major
24 3.26 ± 2.41 (n = 108) Thank-you letter from candidate
25 2.32 ± 2.22 (n = 66) Performance on manual skills testing during interview
26 1.78 ± 1.76 (n = 64) Evaluation by psychologist/psychiatrist during interview
-----------------

This table does not tell the whole story—not even part of the story.

Anyone who is serious about applying to an orthopaedics residency should read this. It is chalk full of good information and gives a good review of the liturature regarding resident selection.

Hope this helps,

Hey, I am currently an MSIII who is mostly sure on Ortho as a career. My dilemma is that I REALLY, REALLY want to be in california for residency, but I don't know how competitive I will be for interviews.

My step 1 score was a 233 and I currently attend Northwestern Univ. I don't have any ortho research experience but I am planning on taking a year off to do this.

I've heard LA ortho programs have step 1 cutoffs ~240--do I have a shot? Also, would it help to do my yr of research with some ortho guys in LA? Any input from residents/students familiar with the crazy california match would be appreciated.

THANKS!

Hey, I am currently an MSIII who is mostly sure on Ortho as a career. My dilemma is that I REALLY, REALLY want to be in california for residency, but I don't know how competitive I will be for interviews.

My step 1 score was a 233 and I currently attend Northwestern Univ. I don't have any ortho research experience but I am planning on taking a year off to do this.

I've heard LA ortho programs have step 1 cutoffs ~240--do I have a shot? Also, would it help to do my yr of research with some ortho guys in LA? Any input from residents/students familiar with the crazy california match would be appreciated.

THANKS!

First off, you are a liar. Within 4 minutes, you posted 2 different messages saying that you are a MSIII at U of Chicago and Northwestern. So either you were lying then, lying now or lying both times. If your USMLE score doesn’t sink your application, your lack of truthfulness probably will.

Secondly, without some connection to California (as with any region) I doubt that you will get many interviews, regardless of board score. With your middle-of-the-road score, I doubt you get any at all. If you can’t live anywhere else but the Left Coast, then I would try doing research in that area of the country, having connections via college, being from there, writing a compelling essay, etc.

Best of luck— next time, try being more honest and less annoying.

hi
i am orthopedic surgeon i finished my resideny in syria ,i was the first in the final syrian board exam,from one year i am working in france ,i passed USMLE step ck score 228/92.
i want to ask about the chance to get orthopedic residency in usa in my case.
thanks
my email
raed_slm@yahoo.fr

this is the worst advice I have ever heard. you're probably that same d-bag on PartyPoker that goes 'all-in' with a 4-6 offsuit. You could flop a straight, but the chances are so low....

Like your 4-6 offsuit, with a 208, you are toast. T-O-A-S-T. I have never even HEARD of anyone even getting ONE interview with a score that low. At my program, you aren't even allowed to ROTATE here as a student unless you have a 220 (so you don't waste your time) and this isn't some elite east-coast residency. The guy asking the question is 12 points away from that!

Woowoo, stop giving bad advice to people on a subject that you know nothing about. From your prior posts, it's clear that you are about 4 weeks into your M3 year. You just got done taking Step 1 and obviously don't know anything about the reality of applying to residency. Let's see if you would bet YOUR future on a 4-6 offsuit or a 208.

http://www.nrmp.org/matchoutcomes.pdf

Step One 200-210:
Matched- 33
Unmatched- 29

Yaaaaaaaaaay anectodal evidence!

http://www.nrmp.org/matchoutcomes.pdf

Step One 200-210:
Matched- 33
Unmatched- 29

Yaaaaaaaaaay anectodal evidence!

I have heard of several people getting into residencies with less than stellar board scores, also.

http://www.nrmp.org/matchoutcomes.pdf

Step One 200-210:
Matched- 33
Unmatched- 29

Yaaaaaaaaaay anectodal evidence!

1) Don't talk to me about evidence. I have been trying to be clear about what is realistic to applicants and it's anecdotes that keep the FMG/208/Indian/Syrian/Carribian/Failed Step 1/DO for MD spot/IMG/Israeli/Malaysian hopes alive.

2) The numbers from the source you quote (if you acutally read it) would tell you that this is from people who sumitted a rank list. Ergo, all those that had 200-210 that got ZERO interviews are not counted in that tally. (n = unk) Hence, one might argue that a confounding variable in your statistic is that you have not accounted for the excuded group. THUS, all you can say based off of these numbers, is:

IF you get AT LEAST ONE orthopaedics interview which you rank, AND you have a score of 200-210,THEN your chances of matching are 53%.

That is really all you can say about it from an objective standpoint.

Don't patronize me, I dominate you.

DB out

My home program interviews all its ortho applicants, regardless of numbers.

One of my aways did the same, and I know of many other places with similar policies. I think it's VERY difficult to apply and not come away with even a single interview as a U.S. Senior

"Performance on manual skills testing during interview"

what is this exactly about?

"Performance on manual skills testing during interview"

what is this exactly about?

I think it's probably something like this:

On one of my interviews, they took us down to their Bio-Skills lab and had us do this round of testing. 6 different stations, including:

- complete the game Operation (Shrek version) as fast as possible, with 5 seconds added to your total time with each 'buzz'
- take a fake femur, and using a power drill, but a screw through the neck, coming out dead center of the head; your distance from the target is measured in mm
- bend a distal humerus plate to conform to the model
- put a running stitch in a cadaver

You get the idea.

All candidates' results were compiled in a list, which was forwarded to the PD. How much did it matter when they made their selections? The opinions ranged from, "It matters a lot," to "It's just an opportunity to talk to the residents." No one really knew. Nonetheless, we all busted our a**es to do better than the guy next to us.

thats really funny, sounds like fun. where was that?

thats really funny, sounds like fun. where was that?

Navy program. NMC Portsmouth.

I was thinking about a residency in ortho. I am currently an M3 at a midwestern school (not one of the big names). I am especially interested in obtaining a residency in California or another major metropolitan area (somewhere warm hopefully :cool:, but sweet home chicago would do. Step I = 240, class rank unknown (probably around upper 1/4?, Definitely top 1/2), a few honors here and there so far, highly involved in AMA and State med soc. at local, regional, and national level, involved in a few school committees, 3 yrs total basic sci research experience in cell/molec/developmental bio--> 3rd author on one project, 1 abstract and poster on another. Will be starting surg clinical research soon. Previous High school all-america athlete, one year NCAA athletics (non-scholarship).

I don't have any "big names" from out west pulling strings for me, nor do I have significant ties to west coast (or midwest for that matter since my family is scattered all over the country and/or dead)

I feel I have a decent chance of getting an ortho residency somewhere, but my questions are:

Since I can't obviously do away rotations all over Cali due to time and financial reasons, and since away rotations are so highly valued, should I use my aways at a midwestern programs where I might have a better chance of getting in anyway, and just apply to cali as a crapshoot?

Are there any "midwestern friendly" ortho programs on the left coast?

Should I answer at interview (if I get 'em) that I have no significant ties to any location? That wife and I just wanna live in Cali? (ya' know, in addition to "this program is the greatest for the following reasons, blah blah blah."

Anyways...is there anyone out there who got in from a smaller midwest school, no ties, less than superb grades, no LOR from nobel laureates, etc...
What are my chances?
What should I do?

Thanks in advance.

i was browsing through the other posts and couldn't find an answer so here is my question...im a 2nd year med student whose honored 50% of modules, passed the other 50% (just got a Pass in gross anatomy - the head and neck part killed me...started off weak in med school my first semester by only passing classes, but later picked up my grades 2nd semester)....im going to take my step 1's in june.....then I am going to complete my 3rd year rotations where I know I need to Honor the surgery rotation....

my question is, I also gained a spot in the MD/MBA program where I would take a year off of med school and compete my MBA...would this help my chances of matching ortho (I'm not going to get inducted into AOA, but I have research experience in orthopedics in med school)...so I was thinking that the MBA may differentiate my from other applicants...

thanks for the help in advance.

Questions almost similar to above post, regarding an MS 3 in dual MD/MPH program, with no research experience yet. I keep hearing PDs might look down on an applicant who took a hear off to get MPH, esp since the degree may not really applicable to ortho?

So, based on all of those people and all of those meetings, I have personally never met or heard of anyone with a sub-220 who matched into ortho. I know of a handful that were 220-230.

For what it's worth, according to the 2005 Match Statistics put out by the AAMC, 57 out of 118 (48%) of US MD seniors with a Step 1 score less than or equal to 210 that ranked orthopedic surgery matched successfully. That's about 50-50, so it would seem if other parts of one's application were good, one would have a good shot with a 208.

I know nothing of your program (it might be above average in terms of board scores), but people can--and do--lie about scores. Never know...it happens. :)

Looking at the stats quickly, it looks like you have almost a 60% chance of matching with a sub-220 score, as well, which isn't horrible I guess.

:o For what it's worth, according to the 2005 Match Statistics put out by the AAMC, 57 out of 118 (48%) of US MD seniors with a Step 1 score less than or equal to 210 that ranked orthopedic surgery matched successfully. That's about 50-50, so it would seem if other parts of one's application were good, one would have a good shot with a 208.

I know nothing of your program (it might be above average in terms of board scores), but people can--and do--lie about scores. Never know...it happens. :)

Looking at the stats quickly, it looks like you have almost a 60% chance of matching with a sub-220 score, as well, which isn't horrible I guess.

You did not consider the confounding factor dude. you can only RANK ortho if you get AT LEAST one interview. The NRMP stats do not include the people whe did not get any interviews, thus the group that did match is a select 118ppl of the group that was under 210. They prolly has the other credentials to GET interview--and still, half of them did not match.

Those do not sound like good odds to me...

DB out

Im an ortho resident in boston, and i can tell you, thank god i didnt end up with you DB. You suck. I feel bad for your interns.

Im an ortho resident in boston, and i can tell you, thank god i didnt end up with you DB. You suck. I feel bad for your interns.

what does this hve to do with anything? nothing. my interns are cool. i'm just telling people to think and to be realisitc about becoming residents when they have a long-to non shot. i guess that makes be a bad resident. sorry, my bad. i'll go back to torturing the interns now.

DB out

hello all,

I am new to this site ... i do post a lot on the orthopaedic specific forum .... i think the most of the medical students now a days get kinda caught up in numbers ... they are important, but other factors also matter ...

the most important thing is to know who you are ... what you do well ... and use that to your advantage ...

so, you may say "what does that mean, what score do I need to get?" I look at each application differently ... i look for it's strengths and weaknesses

some people have strong scores, weak grades ... some strong grades weak scores ... some great research and average everything else ... so every application is a little different ...

the important thing to understand, just like getting into medical school, if you don't score well ... it is going to be harder to get .... the ave USMLE score in ortho last year was around 230 ....

so ... truely be realistic with yourself .... An that's all I got to say about that ...

what does this hve to do with anything? nothing. my interns are cool. i'm just telling people to think and to be realisitc about becoming residents when they have a long-to non shot. i guess that makes be a bad resident. sorry, my bad. i'll go back to torturing the interns now.

DB out

would it be realisitc enough then for people with step1 scores <210 to apply for gsurgical residencies. will they fair better when it comes to being offered interviews? and if so is there a chance to do ortho through that route?

would it be realisitc enough then for people with step1 scores <210 to apply for gsurgical residencies. will they fair better when it comes to being offered interviews? and if so is there a chance to do ortho through that route?

let me say this ... everyone has a chance, the question is how good is your chance? ... low scores will prevent you from getting a lot of interviews ... but is comes down to the whole package ...

i will refer you to this link where i speak about is ... i just can type it all again ... hope it is helpful

Do I have a chance getting into an orthopaedic residency? (http://orthopaedic-residency.blogspot.com/2007/01/do-i-have-chance-getting-into.html)

people just want reassurance, and the bottom line is that there is no reassurance....you have to roll the dice and take your chances. Ive met people who are so into ortho that they take more than 2 years off after medical school doing odds and ends just becasue they would be miserable doing any other type of medicine. i admire these peoples dedication, even if some of them are deluded. All you have to do is remember how it was like applying to medical school...what did your application look like then...what did u get on your mcat...what did you think of your chances? What I learned then and what ive relearned now is that people then who had 33's on mcat and 4.0 gpa's didn't get into medical school, took a year off, reapplied, and were successful. But not every story turns out this way...life is full of dissappointments....but you won't get anywhere if you never let go of the dice....what are you going to do...settle for general surgery? anesthesiology...PSYCHIATRY :laugh: ?? i'd rather just become a construction worker, at least then i can drill into cement instead of bone. Do as much as you can in every area...soak up every opportunity that will improve your application. whatever youve done to damage your application is in the past. why should you deserve a spot when someone else out there worked harder than you? Maybe you think you were just unlucky...but who wants to be associated with unlucky you anyway? Life isnt convenient, quiting is.

:o

You did not consider the confounding factor dude. you can only RANK ortho if you get AT LEAST one interview. The NRMP stats do not include the people whe did not get any interviews, thus the group that did match is a select 118ppl of the group that was under 210. They prolly has the other credentials to GET interview--and still, half of them did not match.

Those do not sound like good odds to me...

DB out

For the record...ie...for anybody searching for answers: This information is not entirely correct. The source document states there were 704 applicants for 610 positions. An applicant is an applicant whether they get interviews or not. Ranking is not a part of the score statistic in this article (just this part of the article). Do the math you will see what I mean. The numbers in the graph add up to the numbers given in the table.

That said: The interview ranking process, however, does take into account ranking and inteviewing. Another graph in the document indicates acceptance when taking rank order lists into account. So if someone ranks a bunch of programs, they have a better chance of placement. This clearly indicates interviews matter. But the fact is, you can somewhat gage your chances on the USMLE score vs acceptance graph. The over all data indicates that each US applicant has a 86.6% chance of placement. When the data is distributed, however, someone with a score of 200-209 only has a 53% chance of placement; whereas, someone with a score of 250-259 has a 95.2% chance of placement. The 86.6% overall can be compared to the average given in the document (230) which is 230-239 88.35% placement.

But you are right, it dont mean a thing if you aint got the interview swing.

For the record...ie...for anybody searching for answers: This information is not entirely correct. The source document states there were 704 applicants for 610 positions. An applicant is an applicant whether they get interviews or not. Ranking is not a part of the score statistic in this article (just this part of the article). Do the math you will see what I mean. The numbers in the graph add up to the numbers given in the table.

That said: The interview ranking process, however, does take into account ranking and inteviewing. Another graph in the document indicates acceptance when taking rank order lists into account. So if someone ranks a bunch of programs, they have a better chance of placement. This clearly indicates interviews matter. But the fact is, you can somewhat gage your chances on the USMLE score vs acceptance graph. The over all data indicates that each US applicant has a 86.6% chance of placement. When the data is distributed, however, someone with a score of 200-209 only has a 53% chance of placement; whereas, someone with a score of 250-259 has a 95.2% chance of placement. The 86.6% overall can be compared to the average given in the document (230) which is 230-239 88.35% placement.

But you are right, it dont mean a thing if you aint got the interview swing.


Nope...I check this out with the source...you need at least one interview for this data to mean anything...wonderful to be wrong:cool:

.

I'm also in a similar situation. I just got my board scores back with a 222, top 50% of my class with ortho research that should be published by the time I graduate. I've been very active in school working with curriculum, etc. I've looked at the NRMP statistics, but am curious to hear about personal experiences, etc and how people faired in interviews and match.

For the last 2, you're numbers are fine. Middle of the road. Ortho is definately competitive, and you won't make the cut off for some programs, but you'll make them for a lot numbers wise. If you don't have an ortho program, you need to find some community orthopods or at least rotate early at an outside institution in ortho. My chairman said he'll take ortho letters over non ortho letters any day.

Whatever you do, apply broadly. Try to get exposure early. Don't worry about step 1 score as there's nothing you can do to change it. Either take step 2 super early and ace it or concentrate on a super early outside rotation. I know plenty of people who scored in the 220's that matched at both academic and community programs. I know I had below 230, and my friend in the other program in town had below 230. We both got about 8-9 interviews and matched at our top 3 on our list. Don't believe everything online, not everyone has over 230 on step 1, although I'm sure it helps to get your foot in the door of those programs with high cutoffs.

Good luck. Sscooterguy

This Should answer everyone's questions :thumbup: *the new one*

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf

what does this hve to do with anything? nothing. my interns are cool. i'm just telling people to think and to be realisitc about becoming residents when they have a long-to non shot. i guess that makes be a bad resident. sorry, my bad. i'll go back to torturing the interns now.

DB out

Do you take the same outlook for your patients?
Oh your chance of walking is only 50%, if the surgery is successful...so I am just going to cut your leg off now...
I wish I knew where you are so I scratch your hospital off my list :eek:

Do you take the same outlook for your patients?
Oh your chance of walking is only 50%, if the surgery is successful...so I am just going to cut your leg off now...
I wish I knew where you are so I scratch your hospital off my list :eek:

You were so worked up by a post from 8 months ago that you had to respond? Sad.

Do you take the same outlook for your patients?
Oh your chance of walking is only 50%, if the surgery is successful...so I am just going to cut your leg off now...
I wish I knew where you are so I scratch your hospital off my list :eek:

actually, yes, i do. i tell EVERYONE the truth, especially the patients. i dont ever let people believe something that is not true. i dont paint rosey pictures for them, i dont suggest that good things will happen when they are likely not going to, and i dont tell them that they're going to have a normal leg after a IIIC tibia. i tell them the unbiased truth and the odds as i know them best. i spell out all of the risks, benifits and liklihoods of each.

by your tone and example, you clearly demonstrate your ignorance of both ortho and medicine. there is a huge debate in ortho about whether people are better off with amputations after bad LE frx and there's a lot of evidence that says that some are

so am i a prick? maybe to you who live in the land of fairy tales and puppy dog tails, who think that a wish on a star will summon a flying unicorn. i know that my pts appriciate the realism and that i am straighforward and honest with them. in the end, they often end up with what they expected and you know what--most are pretty ok with it.

so get out of my face, dont question me, i dominate you

DB out

so am i a prick?



so get out of my face, dont question me, i dominate you

DB out


hahahaha, lowly pre-med laughing at you here :)
I dominate you? I didn't realize that doctors were internet tough guys too. :laugh:

*MOD NOTE: I think it is great there is so much feedback, but please make sure to keep it professional*

-t

hahahaha, lowly pre-med laughing at you here :)
I dominate you? I didn't realize that doctors were internet tough guys too. :laugh:

obviosuly you have never seen Ceasar Milan or the South Park episode where Cartman gets 'dominated'

DB out

I didn't realize that doctors were internet tough guys too. :laugh:

Not doctors, just orthopods, the ultimate badasses. ;)

I am a Canadian/British citizen holding an HBA(Honors BA in Kinesiology and will have an MBBS (Bachelor of Med Bachelor of Surgery) British equivalent to MD in 4 months from now. I havent written my USMLE's yet cause but realize the score needs to be 230+. Many of you will probably tell me to forget about applying to Ortho considering my situation, but I ask all those with faith, what are my chances of getting into an Ortho program somewhere if say I get 230 on USMLE's, have a good application, and really dont care where I get in (Im doing for the love and not convenience) I am hellbent on trying till I get somewhere? I am a bull, i have a hard head, Orthopedics is the only thing i see myself doing in medicine, Id rather be in an another feild than be forced to forget ortho and pick a by the way specialty. I am willing to tell myself how much i like the taste of crap everyday till i get somewhere.
Any comments or advise would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

I am a Canadian/British citizen holding an HBA(Honors BA in Kinesiology and will have an MBBS (Bachelor of Med Bachelor of Surgery) British equivalent to MD in 4 months from now. I havent written my USMLE's yet cause but realize the score needs to be 230+. Many of you will probably tell me to forget about applying to Ortho considering my situation, but I ask all those with faith, what are my chances of getting into an Ortho program somewhere if say I get 230 on USMLE's, have a good application, and really dont care where I get in (Im doing for the love and not convenience) I am hellbent on trying till I get somewhere? I am a bull, i have a hard head, Orthopedics is the only thing i see myself doing in medicine, Id rather be in an another feild than be forced to forget ortho and pick a by the way specialty. I am willing to tell myself how much i like the taste of crap everyday till i get somewhere.
Any comments or advise would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
You know what... I'll be there have been a number of things that people have told you you could not do. Well, it sure sounds like you are determined and that will show up in test scores, interviews, personal statements. My husband is applying to orthopedics, and it is a different kind of program. If you are as hard headed and determined as you seem, if you can talk the talk and walk the walk, then study your butt off and get great USMLE scores. I'd say that 230 is fine, but 240s are even better. Go above and beyond... do some ortho research... do several rotations at ortho programs that you are interested in... and while you are there be the hardest worker and best buddy to everyone. If this is your dream don't settle for anything less.

actually, yes, i do. i tell EVERYONE the truth, especially the patients. i dont ever let people believe something that is not true. i dont paint rosey pictures for them, i dont suggest that good things will happen when they are likely not going to, and i dont tell them that they're going to have a normal leg after a IIIC tibia. i tell them the unbiased truth and the odds as i know them best. i spell out all of the risks, benifits and liklihoods of each.

by your tone and example, you clearly demonstrate your ignorance of both ortho and medicine. there is a huge debate in ortho about whether people are better off with amputations after bad LE frx and there's a lot of evidence that says that some are

so am i a prick? maybe to you who live in the land of fairy tales and puppy dog tails, who think that a wish on a star will summon a flying unicorn. i know that my pts appriciate the realism and that i am straighforward and honest with them. in the end, they often end up with what they expected and you know what--most are pretty ok with it.

so get out of my face, dont question me, i dominate you

DB out


I like your honesty. Tell me, does age factor in when applying to an ortho residency? This was actually implied to me when I was still interviewing to get into med school and I told them that ortho was my interest. They basically told me to be realistic and aim for something else.

I like your honesty. Tell me, does age factor in when applying to an ortho residency? This was actually implied to me when I was still interviewing to get into med school and I told them that ortho was my interest. They basically told me to be realistic and aim for something else.

It's interesting you brought this up, because I met with a program director and that was actually one of his concerns as well, I would be 35 when applying for ortho residencies, and was wondering if I would be able to keep up. I was kind of caught off guard by it, but assured him that I've worked for very busy orthopods as a PA, done all the call stuff, (we were on 1:3), etc and knew it would be physically demanding but was confident I could do it. Obviously legally they can't make those decisions based on age, you just have to show them you can do it I guess.

What would you say someone's chances are without any 3rd year honors? (all high passes)

Step 1 score is well above average.

What would you say someone's chances are without any 3rd year honors? (all high passes)

Step 1 score is well above average.

You will get interviews if you have a score well above average (~>235), but it may be an uphill battle without at least honoring a few clerkships, esp. Surgery.

My philosophy for you to get a residency spot...

Find out why you didn't get Os in your 3rd year classes (low Shelf scores or less than stellar reviews? both?). Get honest/brutal feedback from attendings and residents. It may be you need to tone down/up a part of your personality (I don't know you, don't flame me).

ROCK your ortho electives! Get Great LORs.

Do a few aways. One at a reach, one/two at "safety" programs.

Apply to lots of places including community programs, especially places in your region of the country.

Do very well on STEP 2 early to make up for less than stellar grades!

Have something unique about you. Former athlete? Musician? Hula Dancer?

Have interests outside of medicine and put them on your application. EVERY interview wanted to know about what I do outside of medicine...

For interviews: GO to the Pre-interview social and BE SOCIAL! Stick around for a while. Talk to everybody, not just the residents. Have some beers, but know your limit! Take cues from the residents. If they are big partiers, you will kind of wanna fit in. If not, moderate your EtOH intake. You might wanna practice ahead of time so you are not sloshed after 3 beers!

Don't be a douche;) (again, not that you are)

-error-

went to us med school, got btw 190-200 step 1, have 6 publications in ortho, had 1 HP first two years, honored surgery, HP everything else. if i do significantly better say >220 on step 2 in july do i have any shot in gettin an ortho placement or am i just wasting my time.

I would think with that Step I that you would have to DOMINATE Step II, like 250's inorder to get a look at, even with your research etc. Most people say that there is a 230 Step I cutoff for most programs to consider you for interviewing. Good luck in whatever you decide.

went to us med school, got btw 190-200 step 1, have 6 publications in ortho, had 1 HP first two years, honored surgery, HP everything else. if i do significantly better say >220 on step 2 in july do i have any shot in gettin an ortho placement or am i just wasting my time.

I don't know if you are wasting your time. Your best bet would be to schedule an appointment with your Dean of Student Services and the Chair of your Ortho dept and sit down to discuss your situation.

I met with both this past week at my institution. I've got a 222 and middle of my class, with Ortho research. I was very happy with the advice they gave me. The Chair specifically told me they rarely interview people with less then a 215, but he is not opposed if the right person comes around. Talk to these people and get some feedback. Then make your decision.

As for the 230 cutoff for interviews. It is true, there are some programs that do have higher cutoffs. But, there are also a lot of programs that have a cutoff of 205-215. Good luck.

went to us med school, got btw 190-200 step 1, have 6 publications in ortho, had 1 HP first two years, honored surgery, HP everything else. if i do significantly better say >220 on step 2 in july do i have any shot in gettin an ortho placement or am i just wasting my time.

ok premiergator .. if your score is below 200 you are well below the mean of about 215. do you have a chance? yes, but not a great one. you best bet is to chose your away rotations at places you think you have a shot. people who know you are more likely to take a chance. for those who have cut offs, i don't know of any that are below the national mean. the hardest step for you will be getting in the door for the interviews.

i am about being realistic. if you look at the match rate for non-matching applicants, it decreases the further away from the national average. in 2007 (http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf), the percentage matching with board scores <200 was 28.6%, for 201-210 53.6%, and for 211-220 73.4%. there are the numbers, taking the risk is up to you.

ok premiergator .. if your score is below 200 you are well below the mean of about 215. do you have a chance? yes, but not a great one. you best bet is to chose your away rotations at places you think you have a shot. people who know you are more likely to take a chance. for those who have cut offs, i don't know of any that are below the national mean. the hardest step for you will be getting in the door for the interviews.

i am about being realistic. if you look at the match rate for non-matching applicants, it decreases the further away from the national average. in 2007 (http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf), the percentage matching with board scores <200 was 28.6%, for 201-210 53.6%, and for 211-220 73.4%. there are the numbers, taking the risk is up to you.

For premiergator, in 2007, only 10/28 (= 35.7%) US seniors applying for ortho matched with a Step 1 score between 191-200. This means that your chances aren't great, but not impossible. If you're set on ortho, I would:
- get in touch with your PD/chair, and any other ortho faculty that are supportive of students to explain your situation & map out a plan
- rock Step 2
- honor all your clerkships from here on out
- do as many sub-I's as possible *at institutions that would offer you an interview despite your Step 1 score*. Essentially, this means not going after the "top tier" places lik HJD. The last thing you want is to waste an away rotation at Program X only to have them not even offer you an interview.
- be an awesome sub-I at each location. Act like it's a 4 (or 2) week interivew. Be enthusiastic, respectful, easy-going, and hard-working.
- apply to as many programs as you possibly can. I know a friend who scored in the 220s and applied to >70 programs (and he successfully matched!). This will maximize your chances to get interviews.
- act like every interview you get is your only one
- have a back-up, whether that's another specialty altogether, a research year, or a prelim gen surg year

Alright, hope that helps. Good luck!

P.S. The average Step 1 score for matched US seniors into ortho in 2007 was 234, NOT 215 as another poster said.

Is not having any published research going to hurt my application?

I have research experience in ortho at a nationally known clinic. I was a research coordinator and clinical assistant for 3 projects performed at this clinic, however they were huge multi site projects, so none of them have my name on them. I also have letters of recommendation from an ortho surgeon at that clinic and from the ex-VP of DePuy who now leads the clinic's research.

Do you think this will make up for not having my name on anything?

Is not having any published research going to hurt my application?

I have research experience in ortho at a nationally known clinic. I was a research coordinator and clinical assistant for 3 projects performed at this clinic, however they were huge multi site projects, so none of them have my name on them. I also have letters of recommendation from an ortho surgeon at that clinic and from the ex-VP of DePuy who now leads the clinic's research.

Do you think this will make up for not having my name on anything?
Blesbok, take a look at the most recent data from NRMP:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf (not sure when NRMP will publish 2008 data).

For US seniors:
1-5 research projects (the category you seem to fall into): 515/633 (81%) matched!
0 abstracts/presentations/pubs (ditto): 182/254 (72%) matched!

Based on these statistics alone, it's definitely doable for you to get into ortho. Just make sure the rest of your application is as awesome as possible (Step 1, clinical grades, Step 2, LORs), absolutely rock your AIs, and apply very broadly in order to maximize your chances.

Hope this helps!

P.S. The average Step 1 score for matched US seniors into ortho in 2007 was 234, NOT 215 as another poster said.

i think this was in reference to my posting about the mean being around 215. that would be the national mean. previously the national mean for a year would be closer to 200 with a standard deviation of around 20. now the national mean is higher with a standard deviation of who knows.

the ortho mean varies, but has consistently stayed over 230 for the last few years. this is almost 1 standard deviation above the mean (84th percentile). these are just estimations because they don't give us the numbers any more.

i think this was in reference to my posting about the mean being around 215. that would be the national mean. previously the national mean for a year would be closer to 200 with a standard deviation of around 20. now the national mean is higher with a standard deviation of who knows.

the ortho mean varies, but has consistently stayed over 230 for the last few years. this is almost 1 standard deviation above the mean (84th percentile). these are just estimations because they don't give us the numbers any more.

The current administration of the exam had a mean of 218 and sd of 23.

..

....

worry about getting into medical school first. work on your 5 step drop.

.....

Hi, I'm a third year and wondering what are my chances for ortho. I had 250+ Step 1, AoA as a junior, and lots of activities. I honored most of my 1 and 2nd year and did not honor as many in my rotations as I could because my problem is that I'm a little too quiet and does not like to suck up so my clinical grades are not great but written reviews are excellent. I also did not do research in medical school but did some in undergrad and I did medical missions instead. I'm very diligent and does well once I get to know the people but I am wondering how I would do since i'm more of a quiet type.

Thanks for the reply

Hi, I'm a third year and wondering what are my chances for ortho. I had 250+ Step 1, AoA as a junior, and lots of activities. I honored most of my 1 and 2nd year and did not honor as many in my rotations as I could because my problem is that I'm a little too quiet and does not like to suck up so my clinical grades are not great but written reviews are excellent. I also did not do research in medical school but did some in undergrad and I did medical missions instead. I'm very diligent and does well once I get to know the people but I am wondering how I would do since i'm more of a quiet type.

Thanks for the reply

You need to re-read your post a couple times.

Hate to rehash a thread just for a 'what are my chances', but i always hope my queries can help others too.

Low step 1 score (for ortho) = 225

I am not very deep into 3rd year rotations, have yet to do surgery, and will have time to do research right before residency apps (~3-4 mos.). I just want to know my chances, and everything and anything i should do to match at a quality program. I have time, no life, and a strong desire to do ortho. Please help me.

gosh, aren't these boards great?

i'm worried. i only got a 265 on step I, junior AOA and helped find a cure for rheumatoid arthritis. i really want to do ortho. can you help me with my chances? - posted by some douche with 3 other posts

in other news, i believe your best chances to match are at your home program and where you rotate. so if you have a 220's, work hard at your home program and rotate at some places that don't but too much emphasis on numbers and but some weight on work ethic. where are these places? you need to ask around.

stuck for resources? find out where people from your school matched for the past 2 years and email them. they will probably be willing to help an future fellow alumni. also ask current 4th years at your program and current resident... but don't send out a mass email - ask them personally!

i normally hate posting in these types of threads, but i figure any advice is good advice.

-DO student at TCOM
-USMLE step1 = 240/99
-8 or 9 orthopedics publications, 1 podium and a few poster presentations at AAOS and TOA conferences and have worked in ortho research for a few years
-top 25% of my class (was ranked 12/160 after MS1 but don't know how much i've moved in MS2)
-will be able to at least do a sub-I at JPS and UTMB (tried at UTSW but my mentor there flat out said no)
-just started rotations but my school doesn't do honors, only p/f with a recorded numerical grade (so i'm going to try to rock my shelfs and clinicals)

i am generally extroverted and social w/o being obnoxious and usually get along with residents, attendings, nurses, etc. i know i should probably take step2 in june/july and make sure i do well on that, but my question here is whether i need to do anything else beyond my current plan during MS3?

Why do you need to take Step 2 early?


i normally hate posting in these types of threads, but i figure any advice is good advice.

-DO student at TCOM
-USMLE step1 = 240/99
-8 or 9 orthopedics publications, 1 podium and a few poster presentations at AAOS and TOA conferences and have worked in ortho research for a few years
-top 25% of my class (was ranked 12/160 after MS1 but don't know how much i've moved in MS2)
-will be able to at least do a sub-I at JPS and UTMB (tried at UTSW but my mentor there flat out said no)
-just started rotations but my school doesn't do honors, only p/f with a recorded numerical grade (so i'm going to try to rock my shelfs and clinicals)

i am generally extroverted and social w/o being obnoxious and usually get along with residents, attendings, nurses, etc. i know i should probably take step2 in june/july and make sure i do well on that, but my question here is whether i need to do anything else beyond my current plan during MS3?

actually i'm not quite sure. people are always saying you should take step2 early if you need an extra boost to your app (provided you do well). i figure as a DO applying to MD residencies, i'll need as many boosts as i can get.

actually i'm not quite sure. people are always saying you should take step2 early if you need an extra boost to your app (provided you do well). i figure as a DO applying to MD residencies, i'll need as many boosts as i can get.

I took it early for your reasoning exactly listed above. As a DO applying MD, I guess I needed to try and put everything that I can control on the table and maximize it as much as possible.

I have been checking out other posts and NRMP 2007 info, but am just curious to see what others think about chances for 2011 with competition going up. As a starting third year, I am interested in ortho among other fields (have shadowed an ortho doc b4 med school and during first summer) and would like to hear how realistic of a chance do I have; and to what sort of residency program should I be expecting to get in if any.

-usmle score in mid 234
-gpa 3.4something
-submitting a case study to be published in an ortho journal (not sure which author i'll be altho I wrote it all) and possibly write up and get another case study published)
-I think I am top 50%, possibly 25% of my class
-med school ranking on the bottom end of MD school rankings
-doing quite well in first general rotations so far and intend to continue trying to do well

thanks for all the input/help

how realistic of a chance do I have
You have a 68% chance of matching to any ortho program, and a 23% chance of matching to a top tier program.

You have a 68% chance of matching to any ortho program, and a 23% chance of matching to a top tier program.

Your point is made. :)

I'm curious, why are the ortho boards some of the least active boards on SDN? I can check once a month and not miss a thing!

because everyone visits orthogate.com.

So...I am currently an M1 at UCSD and am very interested in pursuing ortho. I hae already begun searching for summer research opportunities around the country; however, one fellow at Mayo told me it might not be a bad idea to focus research opportunities here. His reasonsing was that this would allow me to develop a rapport with residents and attendings before my rotation and only allow me to enhance it when I begin clinicals and so forth. I see the value in this, but what if one knows he/she would like to go elsewhere for residency?

Any feedback would be awesome!!!!

Thanks guy and gals...

much respect...

riceman04

So...I am currently an M1 at UCSD and am very interested in pursuing ortho. I hae already begun searching for summer research opportunities around the country; however, one fellow at Mayo told me it might not be a bad idea to focus research opportunities here. His reasonsing was that this would allow me to develop a rapport with residents and attendings before my rotation and only allow me to enhance it when I begin clinicals and so forth. I see the value in this, but what if one knows he/she would like to go elsewhere for residency?

Any feedback would be awesome!!!!

Thanks guy and gals...

much respect...

riceman04


Well you're a first year medical student, so I seriously doubt that you know you want to go elsewhere. In fact, I doubt you KNOW you want to do ortho.

If you do, in fact, wish to pursue ortho then you are going to need solid evaluations and letters of recomendation from attendings at your program down the road. Doing research at UCSD vs another program wouldn't be a bad idea to facilitate this. It's a pretty solid program.

Basically what I'm trying to say is why go halfway across the country when you can do research at a top institution at home?