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crna2004

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All I can say is that the majority of you are likely looking into anesthesia for the cush hours and pay. In reality, by the time you finish residency, there will likely only be a limited number of jobs for newly minted MDAs. All current MDAs will be fighting for the few cases that only a MDA can do. The rest of the cases will be done by us, the CRNAs. Once Kerry is elected, kiss the $$$ goodbye. I'm sorry to be such a downer, but that is the reality. Once we have full indepdance in billing, MDAs will only be used for the 1% of cases that a CRNA can not do.

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Never happen.
 
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there are 12 or 13 states where CRNAs already are fully independent... how come the salaries for MDs in those states continue to be in the 300-400k range??? how come they are still hiring MDs?
 
These anesthesia nurses are clueless. Why can't they go to their own forums where they belong? By the way, when I explain my anesthetic plan to my patient it goes like this:

"Hello, I am Dr. X and I will be your anestheisiologist. This is Jill, an anesthesia nurse who will be helping me out during your procedure. Any questions?"

Rarely, a patient will ask if I am going to be in the room with them the whole time. I explain that no I won't, but will be present during the most crucial points of the the procedure and will be immediately available should any problems arise. I have yet to encounter any problems using this technique.
 
Tenesma - Good question. I think that a lot of it is because the laws were enacted only fairly recently. Thus, they have not yet been able to fill all of the available positions with CRNAs. Thus, they still must hire MDAs at the going rate. Similarly, if Kerry passes a law granting ALL CRNAs full indepance, it will likely take 5-10 years before MDAs find difficulty obtaining jobs. It is NOT something that happens overnight. CRNAs must go to school, and graduate. It takes a while before there are enough in the market before MDAs will see a reducation in the number/quality of available jobs. However, 20 years down the road - do you seriously think that CRNAs will not be doing more indepant OR work, at the expense (literatively and figuratively) of MDAs?
 
Tenesma said:
there are 12 or 13 states where CRNAs already are fully independent... how come the salaries for MDs in those states continue to be in the 300-400k range??? how come they are still hiring MDs?

I was wandering when you would ingage in this thread. I'm glad you did.
 
Do hospitals disclose to the patient who will be doing the anesthesia?

As a patient, I have a right to know, and choose who will be taking care of me. If they do not tell me, I will sue their a$$

Hey lawyers, did you hear that. Come on lawyers, use your imagiation. :cool:
 
crna2004 said:
All I can say is that the majority of you are likely looking into anesthesia for the cush hours and pay. In reality, by the time you finish residency, there will likely only be a limited number of jobs for newly minted MDAs. All current MDAs will be fighting for the few cases that only a MDA can do. The rest of the cases will be done by us, the CRNAs. Once Kerry is elected, kiss the $$$ goodbye. I'm sorry to be such a downer, but that is the reality. Once we have full indepdance in billing, MDAs will only be used for the 1% of cases that a CRNA can not do.

See you on the wards at Rush. Enjoy your "difficult" sugicenter placement. We'll still turn over sick heart cases while you push plush knees......ahh aint that what you where shooting for?

Who's got your back in difficult cases? Best O' luck son.
 
Hey Vent, why are you even responding to someone who thinks "cannot" is two words and "independence" is some sort of a tango.
 
I know
I have never ever in my life spelt a single word wrong either!!!!!
 
crna2004 said:
All I can say is that the majority of you are likely looking into anesthesia for the cush hours and pay. In reality, by the time you finish residency, there will likely only be a limited number of jobs for newly minted MDAs. All current MDAs will be fighting for the few cases that only a MDA can do. The rest of the cases will be done by us, the CRNAs. Once Kerry is elected, kiss the $$$ goodbye. I'm sorry to be such a downer, but that is the reality. Once we have full indepdance in billing, MDAs will only be used for the 1% of cases that a CRNA can not do.

Exactly what do you think you're accomplishing by baiting everyone on this forum?
 
crna2004 said:
All I can say is that the majority of you are likely looking into anesthesia for the cush hours and pay. In reality, by the time you finish residency, there will likely only be a limited number of jobs for newly minted MDAs. All current MDAs will be fighting for the few cases that only a MDA can do. The rest of the cases will be done by us, the CRNAs. Once Kerry is elected, kiss the $$$ goodbye. I'm sorry to be such a downer, but that is the reality. Once we have full indepdance in billing, MDAs will only be used for the 1% of cases that a CRNA can not do.

So I guess when Kerry cuts reimbursements for anesthesia, CRNA's will be cut too, right? Well, the first thing I hear out of anyone's mouth who is considering becoming a CRNA is the salary. Why assume that all MDA's are in it for money while the selfless CRNA only wants to save the world? I would imagine that once Kerry cuts all the pay down, interest in CRNA school will dwindle.

Furthermore, crna2004....why are you posting on this forum? If I recall correctly...there is a nurses forum where you can express your radical views. Why come to this forum and And I think it's a little assuming for you to believe you opinion is correct. Only time will tell where this is going.

Midlevel providers need to be crushed. THey are seeping into every medical specialty and have very aggressive lobbying tactics that gain them practice priveleges through legislation. You may be equal to the MDA according to law, but you are too ignorant to even know your own limitations.
 
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One important point about all of this crna's taking the world over stuff, and that is that unlike the federal laws which take precedence over all state and local laws, laws granting independence in healthcare are decided on the LOCAL level. Sure, CRNA's might have independent rights in all 50 states someday, maybe soon, maybe by a federal law. Just like optometrists have rights to laser surgery in some states, and PhD psychologists have prescribing rights and family docs have c-section rights.

Does any of this mean anything? NO! You can't do anything in a hospital without breaking into the politics of the hospital. Anesthesia groups are contracted to provide care to the hospital. Just BECAUSE a CRNA can practice independently doesn't mean that they will be able to provide care within a given group outside what already happens. Can they become competitive and go up against the MD driven groups? Sure, but will the hospitals hire them? How many will actually want to work alone on their own license and insurance? What if a Leapfrog study came out for the OR? Hospitals are driven by outcomes...

crna2004 may have some insights into this for the rest of us. Personally, I like the person. He's got passion, that's for sure, and that's something that we need as well by joining the AMA and the ASA. He obviously feels that his profession is a good one and going in the right direction, and we need that on this forum as well because this next generation of Anesthesiologists is going to do great things. We've got the best and the brightest in residency right now and coming into the field.

Like I have said before, what's best for the patient is what needs to happen in medicine. Nothing else matters. I really don't believe that all CRNA's want to practice independently. If legislation helps out people in Sioux City or Fargo then so be it, but it ain't gonna change the world.
 
looser.

sorry, I had to (I'll get it out of my systerm soon...unless he ever responds).

____________
"The question is, 'Do I have a as$munch complex?' Which makes me wonder if this...person has any idea as to the kind of abuse one has to indure in college and beyond to keep on venting their frustrations on an internet forum. If you have the vaguest clue as to how untalented someone has to be to lead a pointless discussion. I got my Master's@Bates. I am board certified in idiocy and general lack of tact. I have been awarded citations from seven different forums moderators for general toolishness. So I ask you: When someone goes in to that thread and they type on their keyboard and they pray to God that I don't spoil a hint of reason with my pointless rants, who do you think they're praying to? Now, you go ahead and read your TOS... and you go to your church, and with any luck you might get some useful information, but if you're looking for bull, my posts are filled with it and I don't like to be second guessed. You ask me if I have a problem? You're god darn right I DO!" - macgyer from any thread he's ever been in.
 
The beautiful thing about having an M.D/D.O. is the options that it gives you. If the OR jobs do run out for several years (on a downcycle as these things tend to be cyclical), we can always do fellowships at that time. do some non-OR stuff like critical care or pain. there are so many people out there that need pain specialists. if fellowships aren't your thing, you could do some consulting work for a few years. McKenzie seems to always be hiring physicians. For those of us with a more academic bent, research or work at a pharmaceutical company is always a way to spend a few years until the pendulum swings back the other way. so you see, it's not so bad being a physician after all.
 
I just finished MS-3, and what from I have seen/experienced in my interactions and learning from anesthesia is that when I ask a CRNA any question the least bit in-depth about physiology or underlying mechanisms behind whatever procedure they might be doing at that moment, the CRNAs never know the answer (not even the most experienced CRNAs). they can't even fathom having those concepts in mind while they're doing it. It's like, I'm asking something they never even heard of, and it's pretty elementary stuff--I mean, things a third-year med student would ask and that any resident would know.

When I discovered this, I realized that CRNAs will never ever be able to work independently of MDAs. CRNAs are trained to be technicians. They go through the motions without any understanding of the underlying physiology. Of course, when you practice the motions over and over again, like a recipe, you can eventually do that independently and more adeptly than some residents, but if anything goes the least bit wrong, a CRNA WILL NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO unless they know the science behind the motions. And they do not, as I have seen personally. CRNAs, if you want the science, you not only have to go through med school, but you have to have the science background from undergrad (i.e. pre-med classes), b/c CRNA school does not teach this.

Thus, not having an MDA around is a complete DANGER to the patient. CRNAs should not even desire to practice alone. That's unfair to the patient and putting the pts lives at risk, just to satisfy CRNAs pride.
 
chicamedica said:
I just finished MS-3, and what from I have seen/experienced in my interactions and learning from anesthesia is that when I ask a CRNA any question the least bit in-depth about physiology or underlying mechanisms behind whatever procedure they might be doing at that moment, the CRNAs never know the answer (not even the most experienced CRNAs). they can't even fathom having those concepts in mind while they're doing it. It's like, I'm asking something they never even heard of, and it's pretty elementary stuff--I mean, things a third-year med student would ask and that any resident would know.

When I discovered this, I realized that CRNAs will never ever be able to work independently of MDAs. CRNAs are trained to be technicians. They go through the motions without any understanding of the underlying physiology. Of course, when you practice the motions over and over again, like a recipe, you can eventually do that independently and more adeptly than some residents, but if anything goes the least bit wrong, a CRNA WILL NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO unless they know the science behind the motions. And they do not, as I have seen personally. CRNAs, if you want the science, you not only have to go through med school, but you have to have the science background from undergrad (i.e. pre-med classes), b/c CRNA school does not teach this.

Thus, not having an MDA around is a complete DANGER to the patient. CRNAs should not even desire to practice alone. That's unfair to the patient and putting the pts lives at risk, just to satisfy CRNAs pride.

You really DON'T know what you're talking about. CRNA's are not MD's, and most never claim to be, but they are certainly more than technicians. That's a great argument coming from an MS3 with what, a couple weeks of anesthesia elective? That's hardly enough exposure to anesthetists to get a true picture of their profession (although it might be at YOUR hospital, I don't know).

And they already do practice independently in some states. Again, you really DON'T know what you're talking about.

And I'm NOT a CRNA.
 
Pinky said:
The beautiful thing about having an M.D/D.O. is the options that it gives you. If the OR jobs do run out for several years (on a downcycle as these things tend to be cyclical), we can always do fellowships at that time. do some non-OR stuff like critical care or pain. there are so many people out there that need pain specialists. if fellowships aren't your thing, you could do some consulting work for a few years. McKenzie seems to always be hiring physicians. For those of us with a more academic bent, research or work at a pharmaceutical company is always a way to spend a few years until the pendulum swings back the other way. so you see, it's not so bad being a physician after all.

A very nice adult argument. Not the "you can't spell, so shut up" or the "I'm a 3rd year medical student and know everything" claims seen here. I completely accept what you say. The reason for going to medical school is to become a MD. With that, you can go into whatever field you desire. A CRNA can not work independantly in an ICU nor open a pain clinic like a doctor can. A MD opens a world of opportunity - I just don't like to see students going into anesthesiology for the money, because that may not last forever. Go into it because you love the field, or don't go into it at all.
 
im kinda tired of people saying "go into the field only if you love it." To be honest, if i went into a field only because I lovedit, i would specialize in sleeping. Why dont people get real... medicine like any other occupation is a job, not a hobby. If everyone went into something they loved, who would pick up our trash or deliver pizzas or do taxes, etc, etc? I went into medicine and i will go into anesthesiology because many reasons, among which money will be a factor. I think for most people, if they denied money being a factor for choosing anesthesiology (or medicine in general) they would be lying. I think anesthesiology is the best field in medicine thats why i chose it... but if i were to go into something that I loved, i would probably go work at Sea World and swim with the dolphins or something. Unfortunately, that is not practical.
 
I agree with some of the above comments-many people going into gas are doing it for the $$$. I worked for six years prior to going back to med school making around 40k/year. There is too much a sense of entitlement in many gas residents-if salaries went to 140k vs. 240k there would a mass exodus from interest in the field-many people entering the field have never worked a hard day in their lives. mommy and/or daddy paid for everything as well as sitting on their ass in some cush transitional program for a year-

Just bring it-
Go hard or go the f home- :eek:
 
sdboy said:
im kinda tired of people saying "go into the field only if you love it." To be honest, if i went into a field only because I lovedit, i would specialize in sleeping. Why dont people get real... medicine like any other occupation is a job, not a hobby. If everyone went into something they loved, who would pick up our trash or deliver pizzas or do taxes, etc, etc? I went into medicine and i will go into anesthesiology because many reasons, among which money will be a factor. I think for most people, if they denied money being a factor for choosing anesthesiology (or medicine in general) they would be lying. I think anesthesiology is the best field in medicine thats why i chose it... but if i were to go into something that I loved, i would probably go work at Sea World and swim with the dolphins or something. Unfortunately, that is not practical.


You hit the nail on the head. I too would be at sea world and driving a cavalier not a CRNA driving a benz land rover :)

Ps...im not a CRNA "yet" and a "benz land rover" is my choice of vehicle as a gift to myself after I finish school and can afford one!
 
jwk said:
You really DON'T know what you're talking about. CRNA's are not MD's, and most never claim to be, but they are certainly more than technicians. That's a great argument coming from an MS3 with what, a couple weeks of anesthesia elective? That's hardly enough exposure to anesthetists to get a true picture of their profession (although it might be at YOUR hospital, I don't know).

And they already do practice independently in some states. Again, you really DON'T know what you're talking about.

And I'm NOT a CRNA.

All I'm saying is that what I said in my prior post is what I've personally observed from the point of view of a med student. I'm sorry to bust your bubble but I've actually been around CRNAs quite a bit over the past year, not just on my 2 weeks of anesthesia, but also on my surgery, ob/gyn, optho, and ENT months. CRNAs may have some rudimentary knowledge of physiology, but they were never able to answer any of my questions that were the least bit science/physiology related. These were questions that any resident I later asked easily answered clearly without any hesitation. You can argue all you want to the contrary, but that's pretty good evidence to me that CRNAs should not be allowed to practice independently.

I know CRNAs already practice independently in some states. I think that is quite dangerous to patients. That's my personal opinion based on what I've experienced in my OR-involvings rotations. I have a feeling that even if this CRNA-independence trend continues, it will eventually have to be reversed, b/c too many patients will be dying on the operating table. Since most surgeries are uncomplicated, this may take a while to become apparent.

As for CRNAs not being technicians, how else would you call a worker that has learned the motions well but knows nothing about underlying mechanisms?

btw, the hospital is a level 1 trauma center, top 20 in the country, surgery one of the best (prob top 10)
 
sdboy said:
im kinda tired of people saying "go into the field only if you love it." To be honest, if i went into a field only because I lovedit, i would specialize in sleeping. Why dont people get real... medicine like any other occupation is a job, not a hobby. If everyone went into something they loved, who would pick up our trash or deliver pizzas or do taxes, etc, etc? I went into medicine and i will go into anesthesiology because many reasons, among which money will be a factor. I think for most people, if they denied money being a factor for choosing anesthesiology (or medicine in general) they would be lying. I think anesthesiology is the best field in medicine thats why i chose it... but if i were to go into something that I loved, i would probably go work at Sea World and swim with the dolphins or something. Unfortunately, that is not practical.

In med school, one attending advised me to just pick the specialty that i found to be the least annoying.
 
New2Midwest said:
I agree with some of the above comments-many people going into gas are doing it for the $$$. I worked for six years prior to going back to med school making around 40k/year. There is too much a sense of entitlement in many gas residents-if salaries went to 140k vs. 240k there would a mass exodus from interest in the field-many people entering the field have never worked a hard day in their lives. mommy and/or daddy paid for everything as well as sitting on their ass in some cush transitional program for a year-

Just bring it-
Go hard or go the f home- :eek:

I'd think anyone who made it out of medical school and earned a degree has worked his/her a$$ off and has my respect.
 
Chicamedica,

Let us not forget that CRNAs have been practicing independently for decades, and this is a TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUE from a state?s decision to opt-out of physician supervision for Medicare reimbursement. CRNAs have been practicing independently for decades and obviously have not made significantly more mistakes than their physician counterparts have (yes docs screw up too, so maybe we should let the public in on this little secret), or the show would have been over a long time ago. In fact, this is only a testament to the safe and comprehensive anesthesia care offered by nurse anesthetists. I have encountered many attending anesthesiologists who were unable to answer my seemingly simple questions. Does this mean they should not be permitted to practice? Maybe before you internalize what others have told you as dogma, perhaps you should do a little research before proving to the rest of the forum that you have absolutely no clue what you?re talking about ? it?s bad form.
 
Pinky,

Hahaha funny... thats my roommate's approach as well.
 
KerriE said:
You hit the nail on the head. I too would be at sea world and driving a cavalier not a CRNA driving a benz land rover :)

Ps...im not a CRNA "yet" and a "benz land rover" is my choice of vehicle as a gift to myself after I finish school and can afford one!

Hey..What's wrong with driving a cavalier?? I just graduated medical school, I'll be driving a similarly priced car for probably 4 more years. All cars look the same from several hundred yards anyway...so what's the big deal? Hey, I don't even spend more than 20minutes a day in my car...so again...big freaking deal.

Also...what's a benz land rover? I think land rover is made by ford. So if you really want a Ford that badly...go ahead. If you want a benz...you better really rake in the dough...unless you want a crappy cheap benz, in which case you'd be better off driving anything but a benz for that price range. Seriously....the really impresive benz's are >100K, in which case you'll be paying around 2,000 per month for your car. Unless you're ungodly wealthy, your car shouldn't cost more than 99% of the world's homes.

What's with people giving "gifts to themselves"?? I mean, it's not much of a gift if you pay for it. This kind of talk is silly.

Just remember...money doesn't buy happiness. And the prospect of money in the future definitely doesn't buy happiness. Anyway...good luck with you decision.

How long does it take to become a CRNA, starting from freshman year of college?
 
New2Midwest said:
I agree with some of the above comments-many people going into gas are doing it for the $$$. I worked for six years prior to going back to med school making around 40k/year. There is too much a sense of entitlement in many gas residents-if salaries went to 140k vs. 240k there would a mass exodus from interest in the field-many people entering the field have never worked a hard day in their lives. mommy and/or daddy paid for everything as well as sitting on their ass in some cush transitional program for a year-

Just bring it-
Go hard or go the f home- :eek:

Amen brother. Failing to work for a paycheck during high school or college is completely unacceptable in my opinion.
 
crna2004 said:
A very nice adult argument. Not the "you can't spell, so shut up" or the "I'm a 3rd year medical student and know everything" claims seen here. I completely accept what you say. The reason for going to medical school is to become a MD. With that, you can go into whatever field you desire. A CRNA can not work independantly in an ICU nor open a pain clinic like a doctor can. A MD opens a world of opportunity - I just don't like to see students going into anesthesiology for the money, because that may not last forever. Go into it because you love the field, or don't go into it at all.

Give me a break! What do you care why anyone goes into anesthesia--does it really bother you?? You came into this forum for one reason only--to raise MD's ires. Get real.... Why don't you go back and read your thread that started this whole thing.

The CRNA schools are not putting out enough nurses to phase out the anesthesiologists. If they were going to overrun the MD's, it would have happened in the late '80s and '90s when doctors were not going into it.

Who do you think studies and lives all of the clinical physiology for at least eight years and understands it??

The fact is that CRNA's kill 25% more patients than do MD's. Medicine is driven by what the people want. Given the choice, most patients would elect to have an MD in a supervisory role if not the one administering anesthesia. Who would I rather have put one of my family members under?? Doctor or a nurse, hmmm... let's see, this is a tough one.
 
Wahoowa said:
The fact is that CRNA's kill 25% more patients than do MD's. Medicine is driven by what the people want. Given the choice, most patients would elect to have an MD in a supervisory role if not the one administering anesthesia. Who would I rather have put one of my family members under?? Doctor or a nurse, hmmm... let's see, this is a tough one.

Hmm, so maybe the lowly med student DOES have a "clue"!

I was wondering about what the CRNA who responded to me meant when he/she said "nurses OBVIOUSLY don't make more mistakes" and "crnas provide safe and comprehensive care". I'm sorry it's just not obvious to me, and as Wahoowa pointed out that statement is actually quite false. And comprehensive? how do you mean? including ICU and crashing patients? Come on. . .

Of course MDs make mistakes, that was never the issue. The point being made is:

If there's a patient crashing on the operating table, and there's a choice of only having a CRNA or only having an MD, who will be MORE LIKELY to make a mistake? In fact, who will be more likely to even know what to do?

I may be a med student and might not have a clue about the medicare/reimbursement/etc BS that you CRNAs are so obsessed over, but you gotta give the students a bit more credit. We do learn an incredible amount on the wards, and personally seeing things to the contrary of what you say is the kind of hard evidence that empty words just can't counter.

Well, on the other hand, I know that nurses have that culture of "eating their young," so I do understand where ether_screen's attitude towards students comes from. It makes me quite sad though to see so much lack of collegiality that nurses have even amongst themselves.
 
Wahoowa said:
The fact is that CRNA's kill 25% more patients than do MD's. Doctor or a nurse, hmmm... let's see, this is a tough one.

I'm neither a nurse or MDA at this point. I have been very interested in this debate and have read as much as I can about the different arguments. I have never heard this statistic used before and would like for you to substantiate it, if possible. Where else can I find this fact in an independent study?

Looking at the fact you quote above, let's just say it's true for a moment. Let's also assume that anesthesiologists never lose a patient, which we all know it's untrue of both MDAs and CRNAs. That would mean that for every 4 patients, a CRNA loses one?!? I find this statistic VERY hard to believe. If that were the case, NO ONE would ever let a CRNA get anywhere near an OR. Furthermore, states would not let them practice independently.

I can understant that emotions run high in debating your point of view, but when such a disparate statistic is given, it should be backed up with hard data.

Alex
 
Wahoowa said:
The fact is that CRNA's kill 25% more patients than do MD's.

Did you dream up this statistic? Obviously you did because it doesn't exist.
 
That stat, if true, doesn't mean a CRNA kills 1 of 4 patients. It means that for every 4 patients that die while under the care of a MDA, 5 will die under the care of a CRNA.
 
My apologies, I went the wrong way on the number line :) . I still want some hard facts, if they are available.
 
The fact is that CRNA's kill 25% more patients than do MD's.

Wahoowa,

Are you living in a dream world? If you ever put that crack pipe down, you will better yourself by consulting the August edition of British Journal of Anaesthesia. What you will find is the first systemic review of all of the CRNA vs. MDA comparison studies. Guess what? No difference has been found. Granted this does not mean that a difference does not exist, however it completely refutes your ridiculous assertion that CRNAs kill 25% more patients. CRNAs administer anesthesia all over the world, so don?t think for a minute that just because you feel a bit threatened, some off the wall remarks are going to change the way anesthesia is delivered worldwide.

Chicamedica,

By perpetuating falsehoods that lack any validity, you only further boast your ignorance. Why don?t you try to fool us, as you clearly did with medical school entrance committee, that you understand the concept of critical thought? Furthermore, have you ever considered that perhaps the arrogance demonstrated by many "know it all" medical students has shaped the attitudes of many nurses?
 
ether_screen said:
Wahoowa,

Are you living in a dream world? If you ever put that crack pipe down, you will better yourself by consulting the August edition of British Journal of Anaesthesia. What you will find is the first systemic review of all of the CRNA vs. MDA comparison studies. Guess what? No difference has been found. Granted this does not mean that a difference does not exist, however it completely refutes your ridiculous assertion that CRNAs kill 25% more patients. CRNAs administer anesthesia all over the world, so don?t think for a minute that just because you feel a bit threatened, some off the wall remarks are going to change the way anesthesia is delivered worldwide.

Chicamedica,

By perpetuating falsehoods that lack any validity, you only further boast your ignorance. Why don?t you try to fool us, as you clearly did with medical school entrance committee, that you understand the concept of critical thought? Furthermore, have you ever considered that perhaps the arrogance demonstrated by many "know it all" medical students has shaped the attitudes of many nurses?



Flame away all you want, your garbage postings only speak to your vast insecurities about being a midlevel practitioner. There are very few people here that are unappreciative of the job midlevels do, but your overreaching your training and the respect that you have earned for it shows YOUR ignorance. The plain undeniable fact of the matter is that medical students/physicians as a group have shown a superior ambition, intellect, determination and toughness to aspire to the highest possible level of training, and you decided to take a shortcut and want equal benefits and esteem. That is why a you are trying to pick fights and call names, it is your basic inferiority complex which you fail to identify. When you simply come to terms with your role, and do your job well, you will have the respect that you have earned, no more no less.
 
ether_screen said:
Wahoowa,

Are you living in a dream world? If you ever put that crack pipe down, you will better yourself by consulting the August edition of British Journal of Anaesthesia. What you will find is the first systemic review of all of the CRNA vs. MDA comparison studies. Guess what? No difference has been found. Granted this does not mean that a difference does not exist, however it completely refutes your ridiculous assertion that CRNAs kill 25% more patients. CRNAs administer anesthesia all over the world, so don?t think for a minute that just because you feel a bit threatened, some off the wall remarks are going to change the way anesthesia is delivered worldwide.

Chicamedica,

By perpetuating falsehoods that lack any validity, you only further boast your ignorance. Why don?t you try to fool us, as you clearly did with medical school entrance committee, that you understand the concept of critical thought? Furthermore, have you ever considered that perhaps the arrogance demonstrated by many "know it all" medical students has shaped the attitudes of many nurses?

Wrong! If you read the conclusions, the authors say there is not enough information to make a determination if there is a difference or not. This is NOT the same as saying no difference was found. See the other post on this board about the article. As usual, someone is misusing information for their own benefit.
 
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