University of Michigan Class of 2009 [Archive] - Student Doctor Network Forums

footcramp

12-20-2004, 11:21 AM

hey guys,
just a few points...
regarding the match, it basically comes down to who you believe. the residency directors from michigan will talk you up quite a bit about how well respected the school is and how much of an advantage you have. hey, maybe that's true. i haven't yet applied for residency so i can't really say from personal experience. but slowly that facade crumbles bit by bit. for instance you talk to fourth years who have stories about some programs not knowing about michigan. then you hear your class counselor say that you need to have a lot of backup plans if you apply to the coast. then you look at the matchlist and everyone's regionally matching, and personally i think that only some, not all, can be explained by student preference to stay in that region. on the other hand, people are quick to tell students how well respected michigan is at places like ucsf. look, michigan is a powerhouse, no doubt about it, but its influence is primarily in the midwest. whether its reach extend as far as the pacific ocean, i don't know but i doubt it. again, it's a matter of who you believe, and frankly, i don't know what to think. so it's something to think about before you think coming from michigan will get you anything you want. now, if you want to go to chicago, or anywhere in ohio, michigan, wisconsin, minnesota, indiana, etc... you can't go wrong with michigan. however if you want to do residency in ny, go to a ny school. if you want to practice in california, go to a california school. it will make it easier. that's just my opinion.

regarding the other bad stuff, i'll just say flat out that the people who run the school are incompetent. our schedules are made known to us two weeks in advance. thus we can't figure out when we have breaks, can't buy plane tickets, basically can't do anything.

we had a two week sequence this year in which there were so many class conflicts, more than half of our class had to email each other so that they could switch classes. mind you, these people had half a year AT LEAST to figure all this out, but no, they sat on their incompetent ass and said, hey, you guys are smart medical students, you figure it out, because i'm too busy drinking coffee and eating donuts, while you guys aren't busy enough as it is.

our grades were unavailable to us for weeks because someone in the office couldn't press a single button that opened up the results. ONE BUTTON. WEEKS.

a lot of the faculty have no idea what we've already covered or not. have you guys had endocrine yet? oh oops. how about gi? oh boy. well then, ummm, for now, just think of (blah blah blah) and memorize (blah blah blah). you'll see it again later.

the brilliant "new" curriculum planning committee decided one day that second years would start on the wards earlier than before. the problem? the overlap with third years! keep in mind these guys have been going on retreats and eating tons of krispy kremes for no less than FIVE YEARS and they didn't come up with a solution to this until this academic year already started.

now shifting away from incompetence to flat out annoying sh*t, i have strong issues with the way the admissions is run. the school hands out full scholarships like they're going out of style, spends ten grand on second look weekend, sends HOLIDAY GIFTS (!!) to admits, and yet can't give a lick of financial aid to people who really need it. i know some dirt broke people who are on all loans. forgive me if that makes me a bit cynical. it's like once you're in they're like, "haha we bought you in and now you're on your own with our sh*tty regional reputation". i'm probably exaggerating but i've felt that way on more than one occasion.

now, does this kind of stuff happen at every school? i'm sure it happens at some. and is this a huge deal? not really, but as you can imagine, stuff like this keeps adding up. i wouldn't say these are deal breakers, but they are things to consider. at minimum, knowing this coming in will make you less disillusioned once you see it for yourself.

there are other things that are inappropriate to mention to anyone not enrolled in the school.

npp71681

12-20-2004, 12:44 PM

Hi!
leechy and footcramp,

Thanks a lot!

Bones2008

12-20-2004, 02:59 PM

Okay, I have to chime in. I think that opposing viewpoints are warranted, but I think footcramp is overly venting some pent-up rage that's been accumulating for what seems like some time. FC, I'm assuming you're an M2, based on what you've been saying up 'till this point. As an M1, I'd like to add some of my own viewpoints on some things that have been mentioned.

First, the match: It is true that the Michigan name exerts more influence in the Midwest, but that's not to say the name isn't respected elsewhere. The M4's with whom I've personally spoken have said that they not only felt that the Michigan name, but also the training they received here (note the subtle distinction), has helped them in the residency apps. Grads of this school match very well. Case in point, in 2002 there were 36 first-year spots open in dermatology. UMich grads filled six of those spots. There are over 120 med schools in the country, plus all the foreign ones who send people here; and one school filled 6 out of 36 spots in one of the most (if not the most) competitive fields. While I think the U.S. News ranking are over-used and over-emphasized, the fact that UMich consistently places in the top 3 in residency directors ranking is something that's worth looking at, because these people are our future bosses and those who will chose us in the Match.

Secondly, the "incompetence" of the administration: the M2's are the first to go through the new curriculum. I'm not surprised at all it's been rough going (other M2's that I've talked to have corroborated FC's complaints). I myself know what it's like to be in the first year of a new curriculum, and the situation lends itself to have problems. However, I can say that the M1's this year have experienced none of these things FC talks about. We already have the entire schedule for next semester in our hands. So, applicants, don't let the plight of the M2's affect your decision; the wrinkles will be almost all gone by the time you start.

Additionally, I'm not about to criticize the way money is handled here at this school. I know a bunch of classmates who are very, very happy with their financial aid packages. I know people who wish they could've gotten more (myself included). That's just the way life is. I can, however, assume that the administration knows a lot more than I do about how to spend money wisely and how to apportion money appropriately to keep the school running. If fleeces are the way they want to spend some pocket change, then that's how it is (though I may have to try to steal one from an unsuspecting M1 next year if they look cool).

Also, and this bothers me because it's an outright lie: you do not need to "apply" to be at interview lunches as a student. There is no screening process. The two M2's who run the lunches this year sent out an email to everyone at the beginning of the semester inviting anyone who was interested to come to an information session on lunches and tours. We put our names down and they made an email list of everyone who was there. Every week they invite everyone on the list to volunteer to be at lunch and give tours. footcramp, I respect your opinions; but, as you said above, "check your facts" before you start lying to these people.

I believe that FC's comments and those two aforementioned postings on interview feedback represent extremely disgruntled, though valid, opinions on the way things are at UMich. I can say from personal experience that the majority of people are happy here. There're pros and cons to every school, but I have yet to regret for a moment that I decided to come here.

Congrats to everyone who's been accepted. I hope you all consider coming here; it's a great place.

leechy

12-20-2004, 04:31 PM

Wow. Two highly informative, comprehensive, cogently presented perspectives on Michigan. I'm copy-pasting both of these for future reference. Thank you both!!

Cryptonacious

12-20-2004, 08:24 PM

bridge01

12-20-2004, 08:34 PM

hey guys,

thanks for all the great info! I was wondering how I can get my hand on UMich's matchlist. I can't seem to find one online. I'm from the south and would definitely love to come back south for residency and life after death,

http://www.medicineatmichigan.org/magazine/2004/spring/matchday/default.asp

here's the 2004 match list.

calstudent

12-20-2004, 08:50 PM

http://www.medicineatmichigan.org/magazine/2004/spring/matchday/default.asp

here's the 2004 match list.

thanks for all the great info.
on a related (less important, obviously) note, i got a "happy holidays" card from UMich today; but, i don't think i'm getting a fleece (as footcramp mentioned, only some people do)
needless to say, i think that's kinda sad that UMich is already differentiating between aplicants at this point (i mean, i know the money they give out will do the same), but geez...
in other news, i don't know how to evaluate match lists, but UMich's looked pretty good when i looked at it. i guess that also having 170-180 other students to compete with for the same spots makes it tougher than if you were at, say, a school with 100 or 120.

Cryptonacious

12-20-2004, 09:12 PM

Hey Bridge01,

Thanks for link! I guess I should have read through that booklet.

I think I'll have to agree w/ calstudent because overall the matchlist looks straight to me. but then again, what do I know. as long as I can come back down south :-) It's good to know the stuff about matching and all though. It'll definitely factor into whatever decision I make,

Thanks again all you guys!

thanks for all the great info.
on a related (less important, obviously) note, i got a "happy holidays" card from UMich today; but, i don't think i'm getting a fleece (as footcramp mentioned, only some people do)
needless to say, i think that's kinda sad that UMich is already differentiating between aplicants at this point (i mean, i know the money they give out will do the same), but geez...
in other news, i don't know how to evaluate match lists, but UMich's looked pretty good when i looked at it. i guess that also having 170-180 other students to compete with for the same spots makes it tougher than if you were at, say, a school with 100 or 120.

Bones2008

12-20-2004, 10:14 PM

i guess that also having 170-180 other students to compete with for the same spots makes it tougher than if you were at, say, a school with 100 or 120.
well, since you're competing with every other graduate in the country anyways, it really doesn't make a difference. In fact, I think UMich's size is a great plus! More people means more friends and more chances to meet others that you really get along with well.

Also, be wary of looking at one individual match list and using it to draw conclusions. A lot of things go into those lists, including the graduates' home states, regions of interest, specialty choice, etc. So, for example, let's say on one list you don't see many people matching in the South. That doesn't mean that people couldn't match there, just that they didn't; and that could be for any of the above reasons or others, too. Especially from a state school like UMich, you're gonna have a lot of people matching in Michigan and the Midwest purely because a lot of the students grew up in the area and want to stay there. Just something to consider. Good luck with your decisions guys. :thumbup:

sdner4life

12-21-2004, 12:41 AM

I concur.

OK, I'm an M4 applying to residencies now and I am a student at Michigan.

I appreciate the comments from both bones and footcramp. The issues raised by both posters have validity.

First of all, let me start by saying Congratulations to all of you who have been accepted here to Michigan. It is a great institution, I'm proud to have gone here, and I think it is a remarkable achievement to be accepted here. I'm so jealous of you all who got fleeces...I didn't get squat! :laugh:

Now, with this aside, I will offer my perspectives about two things that have been mentioned--reputations within/outside the Midwest and the clinical years.

(1) Reputation - When I matriculated, Michigan was #4 in terms of reputations amongst residency directors. I would like to offer that in addition to the quality of students that graduate from Michigan, there are two additional factors that may bias this ranking.
#1 - Michigan graduates 170 to 180 people per year vs. other schools that graduate anywhere from 80-120 per year. Hence, there is a lot of Michigan alums who are physicians all across the country. Many stay in the Midwest because they have family here, they grew up here, and they love it here. I am from the east coast and from going on residency interviews on the west and east coast, I do get the distinct impression that these folks are not as impressed as I would like to hope. Michigan's reputation is largely regional however, it is still well respected everywhere. Michigan's reputation does not seem to reward the applicant who is seeking to go back to California for residency. I know many people here who come to Michigan from California. Their intention is to return to that state for residency. However, some of these folks have a hard time. They will rank California programs #1-4 and Michigan #5 (because Michigan is strong in and of itself--how dare we rank Michigan low, right?). Guess what. Some of these folks end up at Michigan. Michigan loves to keep its own folks...there is quite a bit of inbreeding here. But this is not a completely bad thing because Michigan is a strong institution and you will get solid training. I will stress though that Michigan is far from being the absolute BEST! But it's pretty damn good.
#2- I will expand on this in the next section. However, some of my friends posit this hypothesis which I think is pretty interesting (I wish I could take credit for this one). Again, this is only a hypothesis. Michigan, during the clinical years, works you HARD. I mean really...you get absolutely WORKED! Michigan students are beaten down and trained well. Hence, when they go to residency programs, they have seen close to the worst of the worst. Michigan students are used to the crap and won't bitch and moan as much. So program directors won't hear a lot of lip from us because we're so used to being treated like crap. Think about it...let's say you go off to residency being used to taking overnight call every 4th night. Then there's the resident who came from a medical school that doesn't subject its students from taking overnight call. Suddenly, things get really busy. The Michigan resident isn't gonna bitch; he/she will be better adjusted to this schedule, will buckle down, and get the work done efficiently. The other resident may not be as prepared and so who is the program director gonna like better? My problem with this hypothesis is that adjustment woes are only temporary and things will even out as all the residents get used to the workload.

(2) Many premeds judge the medical school by looking at the first two years and the preclinical curriculum. Let me focus your attention to the clinical years. Did I mention that students get worked HARD? Absolutely WORKED! Also, grades are relatively deflated at our school. At some medical schools, most students get an Honors or High Pass and fewer students get a Pass. At those schools, a Pass means you really screwed up! At Michigan, it's a different mentality. A Pass is considered a huge accomplishment! Accordingly, half the students on a rotation will get a Pass. Internal Medicine, which is the rotation all residency program directors look at with close attention, is notorious for handing out a ridiculous number of Pass grades. I think this logic is ass backward. Now, a few of my classmates have posited this hypothesis (damn, I wish I came up with this one too!):

Why would Michigan hand out a lot of Pass grades? I will bring up the concept of inbreeding again. If you have a lot of Pass grades on your transcript, many residency directors may look down on your application. You may not even get an interview (although, I know of plenty of people with straight Pass transcripts who get interviews at fantastic places). However, they may not rank you highly in the Match. But guess who is gonna accept you with open arms? You got it. Michigan! Because Michigan's attitude towards a Pass grade is a bit skewed to say the least compared to other schools' attitudes toward Pass. Now you can put this together with the inbreeding concept. Many of us stay in Michigan for residency (I think close to 30% in the Class of 2002). Sure some of us ranked Michigan #1; they have family here and love Ann Arbor (which is an absolutely beautiful town). However, I do know some disgruntled California folks who got screwed because of this (talk to my roommate, he can bitch your ears off about this).

Anyways, I'll stop this diatribe. These are some of the issues which I didn't even come close to thinking about when choosing schools and I hope this gives you some insight into some "intangible" factors that don't seem obvious.

I will end by saying that as a graduating senior at Michigan medical school, I am still overall happy that I chose this place above other places. I worked my butt off here but I learned a ton. No school is gonna be perfect and sure I wonder what things would have been like if I went somewhere else. What you need to do at this point is this. You have been accepted to Michigan. So you are strong, smart applicants. You will get into other places. So you need to make the best decisions for yourselves, whether Michigan ends up being in your future or not. You will encounter challenges wherever you go and you will need to adapt which will allow you to kick ass.

Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions about UMich. I am happy to help anyone make an informed decision.

ellia08

12-21-2004, 09:57 AM

It seems to me that the match list is actually quite good. as is previous years.

As far a umich support... well bearing in mind that until next year I am only an undergrad (and thus know absolutely nothing)... perhaps this is similar to their undergraduate philosophy?

Michigan is willing to take a huge class and some people will be stereotypically good and some will be a risk on their part. Then they throw everyone into incredibly difficult classes and see who survives--sometimes its the well prepared ones and sometimes it isnt. It really all depends on how hard you're willing to work and how much crap you can handle. Personally I have found this to be a good thing (I cant believe how far I have come in 4 years) but hey there are always people who dont do as well as they like... just as there are people who suceed well beyond their expectations. Michigan will do everything they can to teach you but they wont just pat your head and push you through. (It sucks to be an obsessive pre-med and get no guarantee doesnt it?)

I really like this policy but I suppose that is just my personal style and , hey, in the end I'm just an undergrad so what do I know.

PS- Fleeces rock!

stanford05

12-21-2004, 01:00 PM

Bones2008

12-21-2004, 05:19 PM

thanks for all the info guys, this thread's been really informative.

do you current students know much about the merit scholarships (i.e. timeline and how many they give)? I was accepted (and wore the fleece yesterday, haha), but am unlikely to come if I have to pay tuition. I know the director of admissions mr. ruiz keeps some kids back at the end of each interview day and talks about how mich really wants them. i'm wondering if these are the only people being considered for the scholarships. unfortunately, i didn't get held back and i'm wondering if this means i don't have much of a chance.
I would email/call the admissions office and tactfully explain your situation. it should increase the likelihood of you receiving a good financial aid package. just be straightforward about it and see what happens. they certainly won't rescind your acceptance or give you less money because you asked.

bidster

12-21-2004, 05:36 PM

Regarding the fleece, it is correct that only some folks get one. My source of info on the admissions committee told me that fleeces mainly get shipped to the individuals who Michigan really want but are likely to go somewhere better. Remember, schools DO talk to each other. The big schools tend to know when and where students have been accepted. You do remember the interviewers here asking questions regarding where ELSE you interviewed, right? :)

If you play the game right, you might get a fleece. All you gotta do is say something like, "It's really close between Michigan and Good School X". :laugh:

Haha...I was definitely asked "where else have you interviewed" by one of my Mich interviewers, but being out of state and knowing how selective they are, I didn't think I was in a position to play hardball by saying "it's you or School X!" :laugh: Although I have to wait till spring to make a final decision, I was thrilled to get a response this weekend and really loved UMich despite how cold it was when I went :eek:

leechy

12-21-2004, 05:49 PM

Regarding the fleece, it is correct that only some folks get one. My source of info on the admissions committee told me that fleeces mainly get shipped to the individuals who Michigan really want but are likely to go somewhere better. Remember, schools DO talk to each other. The big schools tend to know when and where students have been accepted. You do remember the interviewers here asking questions regarding where ELSE you interviewed, right? :)

The schools talk to each other? I thought it was unlikely for them to share information amongst themselves before April 15th or whatever that day was; otherwise why would they need to ask us about it directly in the interview? Plus, most of the other top schools don't hand out decisions before March. Maybe they just look at the strength of your application and the geographic location you're from and make a guess as to your likelihood of attending.

leechy

12-21-2004, 05:57 PM

thanks for all the info guys, this thread's been really informative.

do you current students know much about the merit scholarships (i.e. timeline and how many they give)? I was accepted (and wore the fleece yesterday, haha), but am unlikely to come if I have to pay tuition. I know the director of admissions mr. ruiz keeps some kids back at the end of each interview day and talks about how mich really wants them. i'm wondering if these are the only people being considered for the scholarships. unfortunately, i didn't get held back and i'm wondering if this means i don't have much of a chance.

I heard the scholarships are given in March, and I'm guessing there are about a dozen of them, based on other schools that also give out scholarships. My decision is also going to be based largely on money, but I feel awkward telling any adcoms about this just yet... I don't want to annoy them by making them feel they have to bribe me.

bidster

12-21-2004, 09:22 PM

Rules are meant to be broken. In fact, they are broken in a tactful manner that is not outright egregious. For instance, Michigan talks to Michigan State and Wayne State all the time when it comes down to in-state applicants to see if those other institutions have already accepted them. Harvard and Hopkins admissions committees also engage in active communication. Do you know of too many people who have actually been accepted to both Harvard and Hopkins? I went to Hopkins undergrad and the word on the street was that if a person was accepted to Hopkins, Hopkins would communicate this discretely to Harvard. Probably the vice versa situation also applies.

I heard somewhere--not from an official source by any means--that when you accept acceptances, it shows up in some AMCAS database that only administrators/adcom members have access to.... so besides schools gossiping amongst themselves, this would be another path I've heard of schools taking towards finding out about your "options." Any idea if this is true?

leechy

12-21-2004, 09:29 PM

And just because schools don't hand out official acceptances until a certain date doesn't necessarily mean that they are not targeting certain applicants. The super-qualified applicants will be highly sought after by multiple top-tier medical schools. And if rules can be broken to grab these candidates, I'm sure the school will find loopholes to take advantage of this.
Interesting. so it seems informal information-sharing does occur between schools. Thanks for the clarification, Andy, and more generally, for all of your extremely helpful posts on this thread. I really appreciate it, and I'm sure the others do too. Lots of food for thought. :)

jhugti

12-21-2004, 11:23 PM

It IS harder to match on the coasts however. Year after year, I see quite a lacking when it comes down to Michigan students matching at the Harvard hospitals, Hopkins, UPenn, UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, UWash, etc. Again, this may not be a huge point at Michigan for the reasons mentioned above. The only way to truly test the validity of this is to look at the rank lists of those who matched at Michigan/Midwest and see if these coastal programs were ranked higher. Personally, I don't hear of too many stories like this however.

Regardless, if you're keen on going to an Ivy league program or California and even though you trained at a strong institution like Michigan for medical school, you will have a tough time. By no means does coming to Michigan make you a shoe-in to residency programs at these institutions. However, if you end up going to Harvard or Hopkins for med school, you can literally go anywhere! So if you get into one of those two schools, you may have the most number of options if you go there instead of here.

Aghh
Im essentially debating between Michigan and Hopkins... though I'm a midwesterner I'm not positive I want to stay in the midwest forever.

Michigan students (and others with relevant opinions): Does this mean I should turn away from UMich? What if money is involved? I have a hard time convincing myself Hopkins is $100,000+ better than Michigan, but at the same time don't want to limit my future options.....
all opinions welcome

elias514

12-22-2004, 12:55 PM

A few comments from an M1 at Michigan:

FIRST, self-entitlement by virtue of institutional affiliation drives me f*cking nuts. Prestige does not compensate for academic mediocrity. Period. The only way you're going to land a spot at a top residency program is by working your ass off and making the right connections. Institutional prestige doesn't mean sh*t when compared to the individual applicant's performance on the wards, standardized test scores, and faculty members' opinions of the applicant. When students at Michigan complain about how interviewers weren't "blown away" by the Michigan name, it bothers me; medical school isn't like undergrad. There are only 125 allopathic med schools in the country and 90% of them offer an outstanding education, partly because medicine deals with life and death issues and the public has precious little tolerance for incompetence (hence the medical malpractice crisis), and partly due to the fact that it's damn hard to get into medical school.

As future doctors, we should forget about prestige and focus on becoming the best physicians we possibly can--we have an ethical and moral obligation to our future patients to reach our full potential. I've said this many times and I'll say it again because I heartedly believe it: even great medical schools graduate mediocre doctors and "mediocre" medical schools often graduate truly outstanding physicians. What you accomplish as a medical student, as a resident, and ultimately how well you take care of your patients will depend almost entirely on your own drive, aptitude, and other personal attributes, not on some stupid institutional affiliation. When you're done with your formal education, nobody is going to force you to stay current on the literature or to go that extra mile with a patient; no patient is going to ask you where you went to medical school or served your residency for that matter; your patients and your peers will judge you based on your interpersonal skills and your performance. No colleague likes an ******* and no patient wants an incompetent *******.

Fortunately, Michigan does a damn good job of training its students and I'm happy to be here.

SECOND, Michigan does extremely well in the Match. Many people fail to recognize that first-rate residency programs are not limited to the East and West Coast or the "name-brand" schools. How many people recognize the University of Cincinnati, Carolinas, Indiana, Michigan, Hennepin County, Cook County, and U Pitt as great places to train for emergency medicine? Or what about Vanderbilt, Pitt, Michigan, UAB Birmingham for general surgery? Lest we forget about internal medicine, I should mention that U Chicago, Wash U, and Michigan are considered to be the best medicine programs in the Midwest and certainly among the best in the country. And how many Michigan grads ended up at these programs? Or what about Wills Eye in Philadelphia, Cleveland Clinic, Baylor, and Michigan for ophthalmology? All very competitive, top tier ophthy programs (don't believe me? Check out the ophthalmology times publication). The list goes on and on. It suffices to say that Michigan grads end up in excellent residency programs throughout the country and it's not because of some stupid ranking in US News or residency director score.

THIRD, the curriculum at Michigan runs quite smoothly. It's well-balanced in terms of its emphasis on basic science and clinically relevant subject matter, and a lot of the ridiculous "rat facts" have been omitted. The administration has done an excellent job of ironing out all the kinks and other issues of the class ahead of us--i.e., the guinea pigs.

FOURTH, the anatomy, biostats, biochem, and pathology faculty at UMich rule! They truly are some of the best instructors I've ever had.

FIFTH, the embryology lecturers blow and if I get another lecture on BMP4 I'm going to shoot somebody.

SIXTH, people need to quit bitching about the inbreeding at Michigan. I mean I know I would kill myself if I had to match at Michigan for say internal medicine (top 10 program) or surgery (top 5 program). Jesus, how do those people live with themselves?

SEVENTH, Ann Arbor is a wonderful place to live. The beer is awesome, the women are beautiful, and there are tons of great places to eat.

EIGHTH, 14 degrees below zero is really fu*king cold.

NINTH, anyone who chooses to pay an additional 100 grand to attend Hopkins rather than Michigan needs a psychiatric evaluation.

TENTH, I love this place and I'm happy to be here!

P.S., Hi Bones. I hope you're enjoying your break.

footcramp

12-22-2004, 02:34 PM

i think potential enrollees should pay special attention to some of the things that were said. this isn't about whether someone has a reason to whine or not. it's about things that current students can agree on. here's what we agree on regarding the match:

though it is top 3 in residency director ratings and ranked 7th overall, that will not help anyone in the match. andy said it will help but not very much. bones said "it doesn't mean sh*t", and i said michigan's reputation is only regional. so those are all things we more or less agree on.

if you are okay with that, come to michigan. it's a great school with a ton of resources and you will get a great education. i have no doubt about that at all. but if you're coming to michigan because it is top 10, or because you think its #3 residency director ranking means anything, think twice. you need to come here because of what it actually offers, not what you think it offers. and certainly not because "oh i got a fleece, they are so nice to me, awwwww."

i think all the lucky non-guinea-pig-m1s and m4s can agree with that.

leechy

12-22-2004, 03:25 PM

Aghh
Im essentially debating between Michigan and Hopkins... though I'm a midwesterner I'm not positive I want to stay in the midwest forever.

Michigan students (and others with relevant opinions): Does this mean I should turn away from UMich? What if money is involved? I have a hard time convincing myself Hopkins is $100,000+ better than Michigan, but at the same time don't want to limit my future options.....
all opinions welcome

You don't need to decide now. See how the financial aid packages compare and then decide how you feel about it.

kikkoman

12-22-2004, 05:02 PM

acidhouse303

12-23-2004, 10:24 PM

andy how do you like the md /phd route? i heard from my interviewers that some people can get into the program after the first year of being in the regular MD program (ie not applying to the md/phd program initially) do u know anyone who has done this, and how thats done? im considering it but i didnt apply to the joint program at first thanks

GoodMonkey

01-02-2005, 01:16 PM

hey guys ... congrats on your acceptances. :) i'm an m2 here at mich and i'm very glad i decided to come to this school. yeah, every school (EVERY SCHOOL - even usc, footcramp, if you are who i think you are) has its ups and downs and various highlights and incompentencies, and california and non-california matches (or whatever you are putting as your end-all-be-all judging point of a school) ... but the bottom line is michigan is a great school, for me at least, and i'm very happy with my decision to attend michigan. :) helllooooo online lecture videos, anyone? :D

as far as the winters - yeah they're cold. but hey, it's up north. the 45th parallel is about 2-3 hours north of ann arbor (halfway between the equator and north pole) and we get snow. slush. ice. wind. yes. you come here, you deal with it, you get on with your life.

enjoy the time before med school all you '09ers. :) and (shameless, self-interest advertising here) PM me if you're looking for somewhere to live that isn't in the white coat ghetto. i have a room to rent.

~ a happy '07 wolverine

GoodMonkey

01-02-2005, 01:20 PM

SunnyS81

01-03-2005, 05:06 PM

1) Congrats on getting in.
2) You can do a search on my screen name to find my comments from last year.
3) I thought this year went really smooth except for the one week footcramp alluded to. We had our entire schedule for the year last spring (yes we didn't know the exact times we were done with classes, but we knew what days exams were, and you can put 2+2 together to figure out flight plans).
4) I estimate 80% of our class is from the midwest (50% instate + ton of Chicago people and other midwest areas). Consider this when looking at rank lists. I know in our class we only have 9 people from below the mason-dixie line. As for the Cali people, most came because they couldn't get into ucla or ucsf (let's face it, the instate tuition would be better, plus close to home). So assuming all things equal, the people who couldn't get into those two med schools probably shouldn't expect to match at those places unless something happens and they step up their game. I have a feeling that even the cali kids can't bring themselves to rank 2nd tier residency programs above michigan (hence the aforementioned bitter roommate). We do have kids match there, but apparently just not as many as people would like (I know we haven't matched someone in IM at stanford in over a decade for some reason).
5) Keeping in mind 50% are instate, there can't be that much incest if we have less than 30% staying here for residency (incidently, we also have something like 35/170 from UM undergrad in my class....you would think they are lifers)
6) I suggest you not tell the current M2's about the fleeces. I know we're already bitter about the m1's getting stuff we didn't.
7)If anyone is complaining about this winter so far, they are pansies. And I just experienced a 30 degree temp drop when I came back to school.
8) The school doesn't get you a residency, you do.

Enjoy.

kikkoman

01-03-2005, 07:20 PM

8) The school doesn't get you a residency, you do.

Do you think that UMich's students are that much less able than those at UMich's peer institutions?

From a trying to be unbiased viewpoint the matchlist looks really weak, especially when you think about the quality of students that Michigan attracts. I haven't been through the process yet, but it seems that residency matching is very political. I don't mean to say that students who excel still can't do well - but all else being equal the place must put you at somewhat of a disadvantage than a more "connected" peer institution.

GoodMonkey

01-03-2005, 08:32 PM

Do you think that UMich's students are that much less able than those at UMich's peer institutions?

From a trying to be unbiased viewpoint the matchlist looks really weak, especially when you think about the quality of students that Michigan attracts. I haven't been through the process yet, but it seems that residency matching is very political. I don't mean to say that students who excel still can't do well - but all else being equal the place must put you at somewhat of a disadvantage than a more "connected" peer institution.

:rolleyes: aw hell then go to what you think is a more "connected" peer institution. yeesh. otherwise. EARN your desired residency spot, people, don't depend (let alone EXPECT) on any school to hand it to you on name alone. sorry, but i'm with elias. that attitude just annoys the piss out of me.
GO TO THE SCHOOL THAT IS THE BEST FIT FOR YOU not the one you think will give you the best "leg up" with the least/average amount of work. you're gonna work hard no matter where you go - you may as well go somewhere you'll be happy in those long 4 years.

for anyone else looking for my opinions re: my school, do a search on my username or PM me. and if you PM me looking for my take on how michigan's name will be recognized when i apply to residency or if i feel "prepared" for residency or the match or whatever, you're not going to get much more of a response than "i'm working my ass off, just like i would at any other school. i'll find out if it pays off in 2 years when i match."

sorry this post is my own personal soapbox rant. i'll stop ranting now. :) carry on.

kikkoman

01-03-2005, 08:50 PM

:rolleyes: aw hell then go to what you think is a more "connected" peer institution. yeesh. otherwise. EARN your desired residency spot, people, don't depend (let alone EXPECT) on any school to hand it to you on name alone. sorry, but i'm with elias. that attitude just annoys the piss out of me.
GO TO THE SCHOOL THAT IS THE BEST FIT FOR YOU not the one you think will give you the best "leg up" with the least/average amount of work. you're gonna work hard no matter where you go - you may as well go somewhere you'll be happy in those long 4 years.

for anyone else looking for my opinions re: my school, do a search on my username or PM me. and if you PM me looking for my take on how michigan's name will be recognized when i apply to residency or if i feel "prepared" for residency or the match or whatever, you're not going to get much more of a response than "i'm working my ass off, just like i would at any other school. i'll find out if it pays off in 2 years when i match."

sorry this post is my own personal soapbox rant. i'll stop ranting now. :) carry on.

Jeez, I'm not saying that you shouldn't factor in how good a fit a school is for you.... Responding to the fact that UMich's match list is a little less prestigious than other schools by saying: "Oh, whatever, YOU, not the school determines what kind of residency you get" is kind of a cop-out. I really liked Michigan when I came to visit and I want to make a decision based on something more than the pitch that they give you during interview day.

Whitney

01-03-2005, 08:55 PM

I absolutely loved the MD/PhD route. The MD part was tough to stomach at times but the PhD phase was awesome!

AndyMilonakis, just wondering how literal you meant "hard to stomach"...i'm trying to decide on how much research I want to be a part of my program....

footcramp

01-03-2005, 10:51 PM

look, no one is saying that just because i'm at michigan i should have the pick of whatever neurosurgery spot i want. all i'm saying is that michigan's national reputation is not very strong. i think michigan trains students well and the curriculum does show signs of intelligent design. so i agree that the quality of education here is excellent. but strictly in terms of reputation, aka the wow factor, michigan is not in the same league as many schools ranked below it, like stanford, columbia, yale, ucla, cornell, pritzker, mayo... meharry, howard, etc.

when i came to interview, i heard about the residency director's rankings probably more times than i have fingers on my hand. there is something implied there, is there not?

when i go to career seminar series and residency directors (of michigan's programs) talk about how much of an advantage i have because i'm a michigan student, and i later find out that it's not really true, (or, taking a very generous interpretation, that they're actually only talking about inbreeding), i'm justified in being slightly resentful, am i not?

i never said being from michigan should excuse mediocre scores or interview performance. no one is implying that one has a right to certain cush residencies because of school brand alone. no one is "depending" on the school to take them somewhere. what has been said however, is that the michigan brand is overhyped. there is a problem if michigan can't compete on an even level with usc, uc irvine, or uc davis for a spot in california. there is a problem if michigan can't compete on an even level with mount sinai, nyu, or einstein for a spot in new york city. this has nothing to do with being lazy, depending on the school, or however you want to misrepresent it. it has everything to do with a poverty of national reputation. thus it's been said is that if one wants to do a residency in competitive areas outside of the midwest, they should strongly consider schools near those areas. (or schools with a truly national reputation) i disagree with the notion that this is tantamount to self-entitlement, dependence, laziness, or what have you.

automaton

01-04-2005, 12:21 AM

Jeez, I'm not saying that you shouldn't factor in how good a fit a school is for you.... Responding to the fact that UMich's match list is a little less prestigious than other schools by saying: "Oh, whatever, YOU, not the school determines what kind of residency you get" is kind of a cop-out. I really liked Michigan when I came to visit and I want to make a decision based on something more than the pitch that they give you during interview day.sdn is full of such cop-out comments

e.g...
responding to AA - i'm a better person because i'm not white or asian
responding to mcats - mcat doesn't make a good doctor
responding to undergrad - my podunk school has grade deflation
responding to medical school rank - you learn the same material, those research schools produce two dimensional lab rat clones and i want to be a whole person instead
responding to residency - so many people like living in the midwest, if you don't think so you annoy me, ooooh i'm so mad
responding to location - if you don't like cold weather you're not a macho man, muhahaha i am a macho man i never complain
responding to education levels in the south - oh you are one of those smart snobs from new england
responding to osteopathy - dude you soooo want to learn OMM
responding to caribbean - LQQQQ@@@@K at my board score, i love studying netters on the beach for 2 years
responding to reason for choosing a school - i can tell i will be totally happy there because the admissions people are so nice and i got a fleece on christmas. it has nothing at all to do with ranking, nope, i would go even if this school was ranked dead last.
...
i voted for the 86 billion before i voted against it
i'm not sure what the definition of is is
i have no free will i'm a slave of the chain of causality originating from the big bang

etc

kikkoman

01-04-2005, 12:25 AM

sdn is full of such cop-out comments

e.g...
responding to AA - i'm a better person because i'm not white or asian
responding to mcats - mcat doesn't make a good doctor
responding to undergrad - my podunk school has grade deflation
responding to medical school rank - you learn the same material, those research schools produce two dimensional lab rat clones and i want to be a whole person instead
responding to residency - so many people like living in the midwest, if you don't think so you annoy me, ooooh i'm so mad
responding to location - if you don't like cold weather you're not a macho man, muhahaha i am a macho man i never complain
responding to education levels in the south - oh you are one of those smart snobs from new england
responding to osteopathy - dude you soooo want to learn OMM
responding to caribbean - LQQQQ@@@@K at my board score, i love studying netters on the beach for 2 years
responding to reason for choosing a school - i can tell i will be totally happy there because the admissions people are so nice and i got a fleece on christmas. it has nothing at all to do with ranking, nope, i would go even if this school was ranked dead last.
...
i voted for the 86 billion before i voted against it
i'm not sure what the definition of is is
i have no free will i'm a slave of the chain of causality originating from the big bang

etc

Beautiful.

SunnyS81

01-06-2005, 10:13 PM

I think its interesting how people say our match list doesn't compare and how Michigan is overhyped. From the m4 online polls (which if you hunt around you might be able to find), a large portion of the class (30%) usually says the hype is real. Trust me, I think every student at Michigan thinks its' overhyped, since you hear it so often....but apparently when its all done and over with, people are amazed by it. I can give you a list of departments I know of that are amongst best in their fields. But I'll make it hard for you and let you figure it out for yourself (since I don't think any one person knows the top programs in every field....except for deans maybe). (if you're one of those people who thinks you were born to do x.......then go to the place with the best program in X......which isn't always a top ten school.....and bank on your not changing your mind).

There is a reason that the residency directors don't tell students "these are the top programs and these are really bad programs" they say, "this is a first tier, second tier, or third tier" when our kids apply.

I can tell you for sure, that the places I'll probably end up at in two years definitely aren't top ten, or maybe even 15 med schools for residency. As one of the my classmates said, "you know, when I came here, I thought that I could match at MGH after I graduated. Now I realize, you couldn't pay me enough to do my residency there."

DianaLynne

01-07-2005, 07:19 PM

For all those folks who haven't gotten a fleece, have you checked both your preferred and your permanent addresses that you listed in AMCAS? I thought I was dissed til my Mom told me I had a box there. (where I haven't lived for like 10+ years) Turns out it was my fleece!

CreativeWriter

01-07-2005, 10:45 PM

I got one too, but I haven't seen it yet. My best friend is mailing it to me....

what does it look like? anyone care to comment

I wonder how did they figure out our sizes...I am hoping it will fit ...or if it does not, it will be a nice waste of $$....

do you all know when the revisitation weekend is held?

For all those folks who haven't gotten a fleece, have you checked both your preferred and your permanent addresses that you listed in AMCAS? I thought I was dissed til my Mom told me I had a box there. (where I haven't lived for like 10+ years) Turns out it was my fleece!

gbiz

01-08-2005, 12:22 PM

bidster

01-08-2005, 12:35 PM

I've heard only people they are trying to really entice to the school get the fleeces, not everybody.

I am going insane, I was told back in October I will be having an interview in AA... but the first date open they had was Jan 21st. The waiting is killing me, especially since I know all the seats are being filled by you fleece people! ;)

Don't fret....I was invited in August for a January interview but when I called, they had one opening for their last Dec date and I thought that would still be way too late--I got in two days after the interview. There is hope!!!! Good luck :)

leechy

01-08-2005, 01:45 PM

jhugti

01-08-2005, 04:19 PM

DianaLynne

01-08-2005, 07:48 PM

I got one too, but I haven't seen it yet. My best friend is mailing it to me....

what does it look like? anyone care to comment

I wonder how did they figure out our sizes...I am hoping it will fit ...or if it does not, it will be a nice waste of $$....

do you all know when the revisitation weekend is held?

Wow, I'd love to hear the date of 2nd Look Weekend too! Especially if they're going to spend a wad of dough on us.

frantic983

01-08-2005, 11:05 PM

No fleece for me!

DianaLynne

01-09-2005, 07:38 AM

No fleece for me!

But acceptance though, yes? If UM is as capricious showing its affection to its prospective students, perhaps there is no correlation between financial aid packages and fleeces.

Med students are a funny bunch. First we fret continuously over whether or not we'll be accepted. Then, once we are, it's not good enough. Now we need more acceptances, more interviews. And frills! We seriously have to stress about every little thing. Now if you'll excuse me, even though it's Sunday I have to go check my mailbox...

bridge01

01-12-2005, 04:49 PM

Wow, I'd love to hear the date of 2nd Look Weekend too! Especially if they're going to spend a wad of dough on us.

they sent an email recently that 2nd look date is 4/22 to 4/24. in case anyone was wondering.......

CreativeWriter

01-12-2005, 07:46 PM

yahoo! i am definitely going!

by the way, the fleece is very nice. it says University of Michigan Medical School and it has the big M...very nice x-mas gift

they sent an email recently that 2nd look date is 4/22 to 4/24. in case anyone was wondering.......

dutchmaster

01-13-2005, 07:19 PM

Does anybody know when UMich gives out their merit based scholarship offers to admitted applicants? Just wondering.

Also, what goes on at the second look weekend?

ramblinwreckie

01-16-2005, 12:31 AM

Hey, all! When do they start pulling people off the waitlist?

Dr. Donkey

01-17-2005, 07:29 AM

bump for Monday. Also, I've heard a lot of people come off the waitlist at UMich, is this true, any personal anecdotes, does updating help tremendously?

Hey, all! When do they start pulling people off the waitlist?

Dr. Donkey

01-17-2005, 07:37 AM

ellia08

01-17-2005, 10:17 AM

ramblinwreckie

01-17-2005, 06:46 PM

And to answer your question, the official word is that UMich can pull you off the waitlist at ANY time, but my guess is that most of the movement will happen after May 15 like most schools when the favored sons leave.

Thanks!

Has anyone here been pulled off or heard of someone pulled off the waitlist before April?

I was really impressed with UMich when I visited, but I'll have already chosen a school by May 15th. UMich, take me off the waitlist! hehe... :)

Good luck to everyone!

footcramp

01-23-2005, 11:11 PM

(Names and places changed to protect the innocent: well not all the names but you get the point)

I love being at the university of michigan, like the school, like the people but this is weird. So I was studying around ann arbor, and I just happened to be sitting next to a surgeon from u of m. He told me that if I was interested in research to stay the he!l away from u of m which is disorganized, with no one staying for more than 3-4 years (unhappily at best), and really is simply a supurb clinical school. Now this is perhaps an overstatement but it is vaguely similar to what I begun...just begun not sure yet... to think last year (at least in my work in computational biology and biophysics). I know that these programs are gaining steam but seem like they are still very young.

Am I completely wrong? Is the surgeon? Do you all hate research and have no idea? Or love it and are doing well? This would be helpful to know.

Thanks,
-ellia08ok i'm obviously not a huge fan of michigan but i think this is pretty much a non-issue for medical students. if you are in the mstp program, there are plenty of non-clinical mds or phds to work under who are doing research. if you are an md applicant thinking of doing summer research, again, there are plenty of people doing research, and you can always do outside research as well. if you play your cards right the school might also fund your outside ventures, though this is BY NO MEANS guaranteed. the disgruntled surgeon is a surgeon. unless you're thinking of matching at michigan, doing surgery, AND doing research, i can't imagine why this person's situation would in any way affect you as a medical student.

there are plenty of opportunities for research for a medical student at michigan. i would definitely NOT factor this in your decision.

ellia08

01-23-2005, 11:14 PM

ok i'm obviously not a huge fan of michigan but i think this is pretty much a non-issue for medical students. if you are in the mstp program, there are plenty of non-clinical mds or phds to work under who are doing research. if you are an md applicant thinking of doing summer research, again, there are plenty of people doing research, and you can always do outside research as well. if you play your cards right the school might also fund your outside ventures, though this is BY NO MEANS guaranteed. the disgruntled surgeon is a surgeon. unless you're thinking of matching at michigan, doing surgery, AND doing research, i can't imagine why this person's situation would in any way affect you as a medical student.

there are plenty of opportunities for research for a medical student at michigan. i would definitely NOT factor this in your decision.

Thanks footcramp!! That is reassuring.

Dr. Donkey

01-24-2005, 08:25 AM

On a different note, does anyone have any anecdotes about the UMich waitlist (i.e. is it fairly fluid, etc.)?

Also, if it came down to a choice between UMich and a southern state school ranked in the 20's (sorry to throw rankings in everyone's face) and you wanted to match in the South anyway, would there be a palpable advantage of going to UMich over the southern school (or could the opposite even be true???)?

thanks.

Dr. Donkey

01-24-2005, 12:41 PM

Is it too early to bump this post?...oops.

footcramp

01-24-2005, 12:58 PM

hey maybe i can answer some of your questions. i don't know/remember too much about the waitlist, but i think around 60% of people who interview eventually get accepted. word was that last year's class had relatively little movement, but i'd imagine that changes from year to year. if i remember correctly there are two big deadlines, march 15 and may 15. the first being the date by which schools must fill their class, and the latter being the date by which an applicant must let go of all spots except one. needless to say there will probably be people being pulled off the waitlist until late may and possibly later.

i know that the school is still interviewing, so this probably isn't the best time for waitlist movement. those are just my guesses though.

also, some info about waitlists... waitlistees are put in 3 tiers based on god knows what. it's sort of weird because they pull people off the list from all 3 tiers. maybe to diversify the class in whatever way they see fit.

if you're thinking of matching in the south, i would just go to whichever is a better fit for you. money, atmosphere, people, whatever. i don't think you'd have too much trouble matching in the south coming from michigan, but i'm just talking out of my ass here.

i think rankings are overrated.

one last thing - do not trivialize the effect of weather on your overall quality of life.

gbiz

01-24-2005, 02:16 PM

I was waitlisted today :(

GoodMonkey

01-24-2005, 05:53 PM

people are taken off the waitlists at michigan all the way up until the week before classes start. there are people in my class (07) that were pulled off in june & july. a friend of mine at a different school (class of 05) said he was pulled from the umich waitlist mid-june, but he'd already submitted his app deposit to somewhere else and ultimately chose that other school anyway. i don't know much about the 08 class, though. from what i know of the tier ranking hoo-ha, basically nearly all 1st tiers get in, 2nd tiers have a 50/50-ish shot, and 3rd tier may want to send in deposits to the other schools they definitively got into.

i have no direct info from the adcoms/whoever; this is just info i get from speaking with med students in my class and in other classes. *shrug*

ramblinwreckie

01-24-2005, 06:25 PM

DocStretch

01-24-2005, 07:02 PM

Man, I got the big waitlist today too :thumbdown . It's a bummer that we won't find out our standing 'til April but it's good to know how active it's been in the past. Ahh well, didn't Churchill or someone say "That which is too easily obtained cannot be highly esteemed"?

people are taken off the waitlists at michigan all the way up until the week before classes start. there are people in my class (07) that were pulled off in june & july. a friend of mine at a different school (class of 05) said he was pulled from the umich waitlist mid-june, but he'd already submitted his app deposit to somewhere else and ultimately chose that other school anyway. i don't know much about the 08 class, though. from what i know of the tier ranking hoo-ha, basically nearly all 1st tiers get in, 2nd tiers have a 50/50-ish shot, and 3rd tier may want to send in deposits to the other schools they definitively got into.

i have no direct info from the adcoms/whoever; this is just info i get from speaking with med students in my class and in other classes. *shrug*

bridge01

01-25-2005, 12:53 AM

can someone comment on the housing situation in ann arbor - specifically apt hunting? in my previous experience w/'college towns' you would sign a lease in the spring for a place for the following fall. what's it like out there? any recommendations on where & when to look? seems like there's one or two big complexes near the med school. do the fill up quickly?
thanks.

footcramp

01-25-2005, 02:57 AM

bridge01

01-25-2005, 10:45 AM

bridge01, here's the class of 2007 thread created a few years ago. there's housing information in there as well as other stuff.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=63055

wow i just scanned through the first two pages of that thing again. we were such sickeningly optimistic and happy people. :barf:

thanks footcramp. the barfing smiley face is a nice touch. :laugh:

DianaLynne

01-25-2005, 03:55 PM

here's another waitlist anecdote...a classmate/good friend of mine got off the waitlist one week before school started!

Yeah, one of the students doing my tour when I interviewed said he got in the week before classes started too. If you're on the waitlist, hang in there! There's still a lot to hope for!

GoodMonkey

01-25-2005, 10:21 PM

bridge01, here's the class of 2007 thread created a few years ago. there's housing information in there as well as other stuff.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=63055

wow i just scanned through the first two pages of that thing again. we were such sickeningly optimistic and happy people. :barf:
haha i am a raging psycho on that thread hopped up on some TCAs or speed or something. (i had a boring-ass job at the time.) oh well at least i was a veritable fount of information. or bull$hit. or something. :laugh:

LauraMac

01-30-2005, 04:05 PM

i like all the honest opinions from everyone. i would assume there are some bitter and unhappy people like footcramp at EVERY school just to keep that in mind.

i just got in yesterday and am hoping there's a fleece on its way. :)

and yes, robert was super nice. i really liked the place a lot. i already go here for undergrad, though, so i'm kind of looking for a change.

Surgeonizer

01-30-2005, 07:09 PM

For all the prospective umich students: the results of the ENT, ophthy, urology, neurosurgery, and neurology matches are in and it looks like Michigan grads kicked some major booty. I don't have a comprehensive list of the matches, but here's what I know so far...

ENT:
Michigan (top 5 program)
U Penn
U Iowa (top 5 program)

Ophthy:
Bascom Palmer--#1 program in the country
Wills Eye (2)--top 5 program in the country
UT Southwestern
Michigan (top 10)

Neurosurgery:
University of Washington (top 5 program)
UCLA

Urology:
Michigan

There are other matches in these specialties, but this is what I know so far. I'll keep you guys updated. :cool:

Crete

01-31-2005, 12:48 AM

I believe roughly 60 of this year's M1s (out of 170) came in off the waitlist.

Dr. Donkey

01-31-2005, 07:11 AM

Sweet. Here's to me being one of the 60.

I believe roughly 60 of this year's M1s (out of 170) came in off the waitlist.

Dr. Donkey

01-31-2005, 07:14 AM

Incidentally, it's interesting to note that only one person posted waitlist movement on the "Official 2004 Waitlist Movement Assistance Thread" for UMich. Maybe that goes to show you what a unrepresentative sample SDN is. We only represent 1/60 of the application pool...exactly. Please, don't try to argue, numbers don't lie, especially when they have been so carefully calculated.

Sweet. Here's to me being one of the 60.

Dr. Donkey

01-31-2005, 07:18 AM

Someone who needs a thesis for a statistics major or something like that should definitely try to do an analysis of how representative SDN is. It seems like there is definitely an azz-load of information available. Probably be a little complicated though.

beebs

02-10-2005, 12:49 AM

Homer Doughnuts

02-10-2005, 01:47 AM

GO BUCKEYES

automaton

02-10-2005, 05:20 AM

hi beebs,
many of my classmates in the class of 2007 had the same concerns as you. there are currently three programs for your interests. one is called the MAPI clinic, and i don't remember what it's for, but it's for underserved populations. the other is the HOPE clinic, which i think is for elderly african american populations, but again i'm not sure. the last one is Project H, which was started by some motivated people in our class and encompasses a wide variety of underserved populations through various activities.

some of these places require a drive, i think MAPI is in taylor michigan. don't know how far that is from here, but you can mapquest it probably.

oh and also there are projects going on in detroit with the hmong community, as well as various free screening programs we set up a few times each year for cholesterol, glaucoma, and other stuff. oh and we also have a program for visiting retirement homes and shoveling snow from driveways of elderly people.

sorry to be sparse on the details but as you can tell i haven't really been too involved in these things. i think you're right that working for the underserved in ann arbor does take a bit more initiative, not to mention driving times, but i think that anywhere you go to school, you'll be able to find underserved populations. it might be as obvious as LA's skid row, but they are there. underserved populations cross color lines and geographic borders. i hope that helps.

bridge01

02-10-2005, 03:51 PM

:thumbup: automaton - thanks this was helpful. do these student groups have websites?

beebs

02-10-2005, 05:34 PM

yeah, thanks! That was helpful!

bridge01

02-10-2005, 05:57 PM

allright, i'm trying not to be lazy. so i googled for those projects:

here are some results

http://www.aamc.org/uninsured/midwest.htm
blurb here about some U Mich programs

http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/students/clubs.htm
although the link from here to the HOPE project actually goes to a christian group website... :confused:

SunnyS81

02-11-2005, 11:28 PM

Real quick before I go to bed:

1) I don't know what the surgeon was talking about.....and MD/PhD is the surgery chair......compared to most surgical departments, I would guess ours is more research intensive than others. I can't speak for MSTP's, but i have noticed that people generally go into one of a handful of labs, but I always thought that was because they had good mentoring for MSTP students.
2) There are all sorts of clinics for the underserved both in Ann Arbor and surrounding area. The county that hte airport is in (Wayne) is 20 minutes away and is a fairly needy area (understatement). The question isn't if there are clinics but which one you want to get involved in.
3) You can find housing pretty easily in Ann Arbor. Don't worry about it. The undergrads have to sign leases early because around central campus there is a huge demand for housing. Closer to the medical school there isn't that much of a demand comparitively (the complex I live in is mostly grad students, med students, and residents)
4) One of my friends got in the week before classes, so yes the waitlist moves for a while.

Time for bed.

spumoni620

02-12-2005, 12:01 AM

Hey potential classmates and colleagues,

So in my application, i mentioned some stuff about serving the underserved and things like that. I'd like to think that i really meant it, which is why i feel a little hesitant about going to umich. I understand it's an awesome school with "second-to-none clinical and basic science teaching, not to mention great reputation among residency directors," all of which attracted me to the school. But after the interview, I feel when it comes to working with the poor, uninsured, immigrants, and ethnic minorities (or underserved ethnic majorities), there doesnt seem to be a lot of opportunities at umich. Yeah, there're ppl in detroit and the metro area (which my interviewers pointed to when i asked them this question), but those are a quite a ways away (how often do you/would you really go to detroit).

Just to give you something to compare with, it seems obvious to me that schools like a. einstein, ucirvine, usc, uic, ucdavis, uchicago, ucsf, etc have very direct access to underserved populations. But not so obvious for umich. Then again, i dont know much about washtenaw co or ann arbor.

Would you all agree? disagree? Help me get a better picture of how it really is, please. Especially those who are there now.

(sorry for the long post!)

so i had a lot of the same concerns as you when i was applying last year. i'm really, really interested in the service/public health aspect of medicine and that was a huge consideration in where i applied to med school. i've found that here, despite a2 being a safe town and a world in itself, there is NO shortage of opportunities to get involved in volunteering and service - especially to underserved communities and the uninsured. i'm involved in a ton of these projects myself and they keep me sane. off the top of my head...the ashley and hope clinics target the uninsured and homeless populations. the students and faculty i've worked with on these projects are really dedicated and sincere, and it's been great. i've had a chance to volunteer there and it's easily one of THE best experiences i've had this year. sadly, there still is a large contingent of homeless and uninsured individuals here - i can't imagine being homeless in this weather. :( but the upside of working in these clinics is that you *really* do get to be part of a positive, real impact. you not only work with amazing doctors who've dedicated years of their lives to setting up these projects, but you see stuff from the classroom coming to life. those are the times when i think going to med school is 110% worth it.

feel free to pm me with any questions. good luck! :)