Anyone thinking about Medical School after Pharmacy School?

With expertise in drugs/medications, PharmDs would make great MDs as well if we wanted to.

I'm starting to look into this just because I want to be more in a clinical setting and see patients on a day to day basis. I know there's also residency and clinical pharmacy to look into also.

What are everyone's thoughts?

Anyone thinking about Medical School after Pharmacy School?

With expertise in drugs/medications, PharmDs would make great MDs as well if we wanted to.

I'm starting to look into this just because I want to be more in a clinical setting and see patients on a day to day basis. I know there's also residency and clinical pharmacy to look into also.

What are everyone's thoughts?

I gave it a lot of thought. However, my current salary is not too far below what a new FP or IM doc would make in private practice, and I don't have to spend 3 or more years completing a residency. Also, I couldn't bear the thought of being an additional $120k+ in debt from the high cost of school.

Hi Angry. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of practice setting are you practicing in?

I work in nuclear, specifically PET. I just thought of a few more reasons not to go to med school.

1. Fear that team Kerry/Edwards will get elected and support the trial lawyers in their assualt on physicians (and us too, no doubt).

2. My $1M liability policy is less than $200 per year.

3. There is a lack of respect for physicians (and other healthcare providers) by the public.

4. I don't necessarily care for "big company" politics, but I really do like "big company" benefits. It's hard to match these in private practice unless you become part of a larger group.

this topic has been beaten to the death but here it goes again.

Here is a question for you from me.

If you want to be PharmD and MD would you go the otherway? Whould you go to medical school and then pharmacy school?

I hear your argument a lot but i rarely here they would go Med school first then pharmacy school. Personally I do think it is a huge commitment and huge chuck of cash you will have to pay back. Pharmacy school isn't cheap. i am going negative $30000 every year and i am sure medical school is a lot worse. if you truely want to go into your route and by all means go ahead. do whatever makes you happy.

You have to know from the start that Pharmacy and Medical schools are completely different. know the differences and decide.

To answer your question regarding the clinical side, clinical pharmacist will not even get close to getting number of interactions w/ patients compare to physicans. if you really love being by patietns and be there by them, i think pharmacy school is not a good fit for you. we do get however more interaction with general public (in retail).

Also pharmacy school are as much as hard has getting into medical school these days. think of your options well and decide good luck

Also pharmacy school are as much as hard has getting into medical school these days. think of your options well and decide good luck

True. I'm grateful that I got in this year.

True. I'm grateful that I got in this year.

The question you are asking is the age old q every pharmacy student asks and considers. However, most give up on it, b/c they get tired and beat up in pharmacy school and feel some pretty solid cash when they graduate, that they simply forget about it. However, if you are truly serious about it, then go med. Even if you are a "clinically trained" Pharm D, you won't get close to clinical duties and responisbilities to that of a physician. I mean you don't diagnose, case and point. What one fellow mentioned on here that he is making as much as an FP or an IM doctor and that its not worth it for him to go. True statment, however why would you want to be an FP or an IM? With a Pharm D you can go in a more attractive and lucrative field. FP or IM would be if you didn't have the grades to go to optometry or derm or any other lifestyle, money making specialty. So yea in the short term you will love the cash, but your money making potential doesn't really increase as a phamraicst. Unless you do some sort of managerial work and do more education. Also if you truly love the medical profession and you want to advance and build a career, then be a physician. It will open you a lot more doors then a PHarm D degree. However, if you want to be peripherally involved have a good and secure job then be a pharmacist. Keep in mind pharmacist comes in works for 8-9 hrs and goes home. WHereas the doctor lives in the hospital. Good luck in making your choice.

The question you are asking is the age old q every pharmacy student asks and considers.

Ummm....no, not EVERY pharmacy student asks and considers this question; don't speak for all of us! If I wanted to be a doctor, I would have applied to medical school. :rolleyes:

As FutureRx chic would say.....use the search function

As FutureRx chic would say.....use the search function

:cool:

If I wanted to be a doctor, I would have applied to medical school. :rolleyes: Hear! Hear!

The question you are asking is the age old q every pharmacy student asks and considers. However, most give up on it, b/c they get tired and beat up in pharmacy school and feel some pretty solid cash when they graduate, that they simply forget about it.I have never considered becoming a physician. I chose pharmacy because I enjoy pharmacy practice.

I went to pharmacy school first and graduated w/ my PharmD in 2003 and am now a second year med student. I plan to go into anesthesiology. Right now I pick up prn shifts at a retail pharmacy. The money is good but I will be very very happy to never work retail again and deal w/ people that think waiting for more than 20 min for their prescriptions is unacceptable. If anyone has particular questions about going PharmD to MD feel free to ask or pm me.

pharmer

I went to pharmacy school first and graduated w/ my PharmD in 2003 and am now a second year med student. I plan to go into anesthesiology. Right now I pick up prn shifts at a retail pharmacy. The money is good but I will be very very happy to never work retail again and deal w/ people that think waiting for more than 20 min for their prescriptions is unacceptable. If anyone has particular questions about going PharmD to MD feel free to ask or pm me.

pharmer
You know...there are 78 other different things you could have done with your pharmacy degree. You didn't even give it a chance....how sad

You know...there are 78 other different things you could have done with your pharmacy degree. You didn't even give it a chance....how sad

You know, some people love being a college student for 2 decades....

You know, some people love being a college student for 2 decades....
LOL :laugh:


I should say though, if you are truely happy being a medical doctor over being a lowly pharmacists, I am very happy for you. Congrats

You know, some people love being a college student for 2 decades....

It will be a total of 10 years as a college student. 2 years pre-recs + 4years pharmD + 4 years MD. I think on average most people get a BS/BA and then a pharmD now. So 10 years vs 8 years is not that different. I do like being a college student though :) As far as a statement earlier about it being sad as there are only like 78 other things I could of done, how is that sad. Is it sad to do exactly what one wants to be doing? Is it sad when one gets a PharmD then a JD or MBA? I have nothing but respect for pharmacy, it just is not what I will be doing in the TRADTIONAL sense of the word. I really hope know one tries to make a statment about "stealing" a seat away from someone who applied to pharm school and did not get in :rolleyes: I encourage anyone who wants to practice pharmacy to do it just as much as I encourage anyone who went to pharm school first and wants to go to medical school too. Again if anyone has a question feel free to ask me.

pharmer

It will be a total of 10 years as a college student. 2 years pre-recs + 4years pharmD + 4 years MD. I think on average most people get a BS/BA and then a pharmD now. So 10 years vs 8 years is not that different. I do like being a college student though :) As far as a statement earlier about it being sad as there are only like 78 other things I could of done, how is that sad. Is it sad to do exactly what one wants to be doing? Is it sad when one gets a PharmD then a JD or MBA? I have nothing but respect for pharmacy, it just is not what I will be doing in the TRADTIONAL sense of the word. I really hope know one tries to make a statment about "stealing" a seat away from someone who applied to pharm school and did not get in :rolleyes: I encourage anyone who wants to practice pharmacy to do it just as much as I encourage anyone who went to pharm school first and wants to go to medical school too. Again if anyone has a question feel free to ask me.

pharmer

Yea pharmer I have a question for you, since I am in the same shoes as you. A pharmacist pursuing a medical degree. How do you find it on top of your pharmacy degree. Do you find it easier than people who came to med school from undergrad. Its very impressive that you find time to work. Second you say you don't like retail, did you ever had an experience working in a hospital. I mean hospital pharmacists do a lot of clinical stuff and interact with doctors on a daily basis. Granted you don't have as much ability for clinical stuff as a doctor. I would like to hear your experience, since I am coming from the same profession. Best of luck man.

Yea pharmer I have a question for you, since I am in the same shoes as you. A pharmacist pursuing a medical degree. How do you find it on top of your pharmacy degree. Do you find it easier than people who came to med school from undergrad. Its very impressive that you find time to work. Second you say you don't like retail, did you ever had an experience working in a hospital. I mean hospital pharmacists do a lot of clinical stuff and interact with doctors on a daily basis. Granted you don't have as much ability for clinical stuff as a doctor. I would like to hear your experience, since I am coming from the same profession. Best of luck man.

I think I have found med school easier then most coming with the standard issue BA or BS. I already knew how to time manage and study unlike a few of my other counterparts who tried to pull all nighters before the first block of exams and quickly found out that would not work. First year med school classes were quite a bit different then my PharmD curriculum besides biochem which was taught from a different perspective, but in the end biochem is biochem so I had had most of it before. Physiology, Histology, Gross Antomay, Neuro were all pretty new. The only time I had a real advatage first year was when we would have clinical correlation taught by MDs that were to correlate with what was being taught in thoses classes. The reason being was the stuff the MD was teaching for the most part was clinically relavant and not a bunch of PhD crap and so I had experience with that. All in all I did well first year. Second year I have found to be much easier and less time consuming (maybe b/c I don't go to class anymore :) ) The material second year is more relavant save that of microbiology (don't get me started on virulence factors). We have pharmacology next semester (we only get one semester of pharm at my med school) which having a PharmD already will be a major advatage. Its not that I don't like retail, it is just frustrating dealing with an uneducated public that has no desire to be educated about what it is we pharmacists actually are doing behind the counter. I have tried several different approaches to "inform" the pissed off pt/customer waiting for thier prescription as to why it won't be ready in 5 minutes or its free ranging from stating "this isn't a hambuger stand" to trying to give an in depth explanation of what it is I'm doing (none of which really work). For the most part I enjoy retail when I am doing more than mass production assembly line stuff (ie pt counselling, selectiong OTC products, answering questions etc). During rotation my last year of pharm school the majority were in hospitals in a clinical setting (family practice, heme/onc/, OR, psych to a name a few) where we rounded with the "health care team". I found that I somewhat enjoyed that setting but really didn't see myself getting much satisfaction out of it. For the most part, the pharmacists didn't play that big of a role besides answering a question or two fielded during rounds and most of the other time was spent double checking things and trying to put out fires (I didn't spend 6 years of school to be a policeman/fireman ;) ). I hope that helps.

pharmer

I've heard the PharmD/MD debate a million times and I've been asked why I didn't go to medical school instead of pharmacy. You should just pursue whatever career you want to, no matter what other people think. People change, your plans change...if you feel that you want to go for your MD after PharmD and you're willing to make the time to go for it, more power to you.

I, for one, do not want to go into a retail pharmacy setting either. I want to pursue clinical pharmacy and hopefully get into a research fellowship after earning my degree, unless I get into a really good clinical residency program (read: Stanford at Palo Alto, UCSD at La Jolla, or UCSF) and then I'd really have to think about it. But there are also a lot of people in my class that are excited about going into retail pharmacy, and I think that's great also. Some people enjoy the traditional setting, and obviously there is demand, so I don't see a problem. One of the things I enjoyed about going into pharmacy were the multiple career paths you could take, so to each his own.

On a more related note, I had a roommate at UOP that was in the 2+3 pharmacy program, meaning he had only 2 years of undergrad and went right into pharmacy school. He'll finish his PharmD at 23 and fully intends to apply to medical school right after. This was his plan finishing high school, and the advanced program he was in allows him to do it a much shorter time frame with a PharmD instead of a BS/BA. Interesting plan.

posted by AngryRPH:

Fear that team Kerry/Edwards will get elected and support the trial lawyers in their assualt on physicians (and us too, no doubt).

I have thought about this also...what else do you guys think that Kerry/Edwards would be able to do to pharmacists, especially knowing how they want to make changes in healthcare?

The drug and insurance companies have many lobbyists and lawyers, but could they keep Kerry/Edwards from making changes?

posted by AngryRPH:

Fear that team Kerry/Edwards will get elected and support the trial lawyers in their assualt on physicians (and us too, no doubt).

I have thought about this also...what else do you guys think that Kerry/Edwards would be able to do to pharmacists, especially knowing how they want to make changes in healthcare?

The drug and insurance companies have many lobbyists and lawyers, but could they keep Kerry/Edwards from making changes?


canadian drugs, eh?

i don't really think kerry will be able to do much of anything if he is prez b/c congress will be republican.

posted by AngryRPH:

Fear that team Kerry/Edwards will get elected and support the trial lawyers in their assualt on physicians (and us too, no doubt).

I have thought about this also...what else do you guys think that Kerry/Edwards would be able to do to pharmacists, especially knowing how they want to make changes in healthcare?

The drug and insurance companies have many lobbyists and lawyers, but could they keep Kerry/Edwards from making changes?

I don't think anything will be done. Don't believe the propaganda.

We have a state amendment to vote for that was written by physicians to limit trial lawyer fees in malpractice cases. They say it was written for the patients. That's not true. If you limit lawyer fees, then the lawyers won't bother filing a suit for smaller cases. This is what the physicians want to happen. The only person getting hurt is the patient.

Changes need to be made in healthcare, but our insurance lobby is too strong. It is the health insurance companies that are getting rich at the expense of the common man. How do we solve that problem?

In Florida, we also have a large physician lobby. Last year, I went to Tallahassee to lobby to change our laws for pharmacists to give immunizations. I was told by my legislators that it won't happen because the physicians don't want to give us that right and that they had more pull than the pharmacists.

Also pharmacy school are as much as hard has getting into medical school these days. think of your options well and decide good luck

lol

lol

What's so funny?

What's so funny?

I think it has definitely gotten more difficult to get accepted into pharmacy school, especially when the number of applications keeps increasing year after year, but I wouldn't say that it is as difficult as medical school. The sheer number of applicants for medical schools makes it a challenge.

What's so funny?

Well I have successfully applied to both Pharmacy and Medical School. Not to sound arrogant or anything- Having done both, I have found that Pharmacy school was much easier to get into than medical school. I think it is a well accepted fact that medical school is in fact much harder to get into. Medical school requires extremly high grades, high test scores, research experice (for the top programs), community service, volunteer, shadowing, and an applicant to medical school is competing with a lot more people for a lot fewer spots. I took the PCAT cold and scored in the 99th percentile. I studied for months for the MCAT and scored in the 92 percentile.

However, not that this isin anyway relevant to the point of this thread. People should do what makes them most happy. I have several friends in pharmacy school that could have easily gotten into medical school, but decided against it. Just because I am saying medical school is much more competitive does not mean I am putting pharmacy down in any way. Please don't flame me for this. But, what was said was inaccurate.

"The competitiveness of applying to pharmacy school and medical school are totally different. It is like comparing the Smokey Mountains and to the Rocky Mountains. Sure, they are both mountains, but once you have seen the Rockies... the Smokies look like small hills."
-A friend who did both

To the OP:

I changed my mind based on the experiences I had working as a home healthcare aid and working at 2 different pharmacies for ~2 years. I found that I wanted to play a greater role in people's lives. I wanted to more than simply fill prescriptions (and tell people that they should take their meds with food, before bed, in the morning, etc). I wanted to treat and diagnose disease. I wanted to feel as if I made a greater difference in people's lives.

I couldn't stand working at the pharmacies I worked at. It was so boring to me, and I kept thinking that I had to go through 4 years to do the same job I was already doing, only to earn ~$90k more. I looked in research, but almost every primary investigator I talked to told me that pharmacy school would not prepare me for research, and even a fellowship wouldn't even compare to a research bachelors degree.

Realistically, medical school will cost about 20k/ year, will take about 2 more years than pharmacy (plus ~3 years of paid residency), and provide 3 times the earning potential. Not to mention, with an MD you can do more things than with a pharmD.

You have to find out what is important to you in a career. To me, I need something that is going to be mentally challenging and provide me with satisfaction. Hence, I am now finishing up a degree in Biotechnology and will attend medical school next fall.

I thought about doing pharmacy and then medical school... but that is a lot of school! THe extra degree isn't going to help you. They teach you all the pharmacology that you need to know in medical school.

Realistically, medical school will cost about 20k/ year, will take about 2 more years than pharmacy (plus ~3 years of paid residency), and provide 3 times the earning potential. Not to mention, with an MD you can do more things than with a pharmD.

are you talking about just the tuition? if i can get 20K/year in med school tuition + living expences sign me up! yes pharmacy and medical school are completely different. personally i do not think going to pharmacy school before medical school has that much benefit. you will know your drugs, you will know the study habits but is both really necessary? just pick one and get it over with. save you time and energy. my 2 cents.

are you talking about just the tuition? if i can get 20K/year in med school tuition + living expences sign me up! yes pharmacy and medical school are completely different. personally i do not think going to pharmacy school before medical school has that much benefit. you will know your drugs, you will know the study habits but is both really necessary? just pick one and get it over with. save you time and energy. my 2 cents.


hehe... yes, you are right. Living expenses add up too. Tuition is also highly variable depending on whether you are considered in or out of state. I believe the average debt of a physician after medical school is just over 100k. But if your salary is between 200-400k/ year, this is not hard to pay off. Although, the avg primary care doc makes around 160k avg, but even this ranges from 120k to 250k, depending on experience and where you work. However, The average specialist salary is around 250k and ranges between 200 and 600k (mostly depending on how many hours you want to work).

A friend of my dad's who is a family doc (who i have not meant) owns a practice and employs a occupational therapist, 4 physician assistants, 2 other MDs, multiple nurses, a pharmacist, and I believe even a chiropractor. I guess he makes money off from each of these people, works 3 days a week, and he personally nets around 500k/ year. Of course, I do not think this is very common. But, it is nice to know this option is out there.

hehe... yes, you are right. Living expenses add up too. Tuition is also highly variable depending on whether you are considered in or out of state. I believe the average debt of a physician after medical school is just over 100k. But if your salary is between 200-400k/ year, this is not hard to pay off. Although, the avg primary care doc makes around 160k avg, but even this ranges from 120k to 250k, depending on experience and where you work.

A friend of my dad's who is a family doc (who i have not meant) owns a practice and employs a occupational therapist, 4 physician assistants, 2 other MDs, multiple nurses, a pharmacist, and I believe even a chiropractor. I guess he makes money off from each of these people, works 3 days a week, and he personally nets around 500k/ year. Of course, I do not think this is very common. But, it is nice to know this option is out there.

good for him. money is nice... but i will be perfectly fine making 80 grand having a life, and enjoying what i do. as long as i can buy a Subaru WRX STi.

I thought about doing pharmacy and then medical school... but that is a lot of school! THe extra degree isn't going to help you. They teach you all the pharmacology that you need to know in medical school.

Do they cram all the pharmacology into one semester in med school? I just got out of my 3rd pharmacology exam and I had 9 drug classes on it. Thank God we have 5 exams per semester. In med school do you need to learn the same amount of drug info, but in a reduced amount of time?

Do they cram all the pharmacology into one semester in med school? I just got out of my 3rd pharmacology exam and I had 9 drug classes on it. Thank God we have 5 exams per semester. In med school do you need to learn the same amount of drug info, but in a reduced amount of time?

i think they learn it as they go along. during residencies and etc. we do have more general knowledge of drugs than docs. oh man i hope this doesn't become another who's better at knowing drug thing.. dough i think i just made it.

good for him. money is nice... but i will be perfectly fine making 80 grand having a life, and enjoying what i do. as long as i can buy a Subaru WRX STi.


right on!

Do they cram all the pharmacology into one semester in med school? I just got out of my 3rd pharmacology exam and I had 9 drug classes on it. Thank God we have 5 exams per semester. In med school do you need to learn the same amount of drug info, but in a reduced amount of time?

At some schools pharmacology is merely a 2-3 week course (5 days a week, 4 hours a day... or whatever). Perhaps, pharmer has more insight here (even though he hasn't had this course yet). Pharmacists do learn more about drugs than docs and docs do learn more as they go, in residencies and such. It only makes sense though- how much knowledge of drugs is necessary for a radiologist?

i want one NOW!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/kwakster928/Subaru_Impreza_WRX_STi_05.jpg

posted by AngryRPH:

Fear that team Kerry/Edwards will get elected and support the trial lawyers in their assualt on physicians (and us too, no doubt).

I have thought about this also...what else do you guys think that Kerry/Edwards would be able to do to pharmacists, especially knowing how they want to make changes in healthcare?

The drug and insurance companies have many lobbyists and lawyers, but could they keep Kerry/Edwards from making changes?

Honestly, I think the "fear" is just more of the right wing's scare tactics. If anything, Kerry & Edwards will energize the economy which means people may be able to afford their meds for once!

I don't see how anyone can "fear" in the industry if Kerry and Edwards get in. Wasn't it under the Bush administration that legislature was passed affecting overtime pay for professionals. If I recall right, pharmacists would be ineligible for overtime pay under the FairPay Overtime Initiative.

http://www.aphanet.org/govt/04OvertimePayReg.pdf

Honestly, I think the "fear" is just more of the right wing's scare tactics. If anything, Kerry & Edwards will energize the economy which means people may be able to afford their meds for once!

I don't see how anyone can "fear" in the industry if Kerry and Edwards get in. Wasn't it under the Bush administration that legislature was passed affecting overtime pay for professionals. If I recall right, pharmacists would be ineligible for overtime pay under the FairPay Overtime Initiative.

http://www.aphanet.org/govt/04OvertimePayReg.pdf

Good point. For me this election is definitely the lesser of two evils and not only based on what either parties can/will do to our field.


quote by dgroulx

Changes need to be made in healthcare, but our insurance lobby is too strong. It is the health insurance companies that are getting rich at the expense of the common man. How do we solve that problem?

I generally do think that if the gov't touches something, then it will fail and that things should be left to the free market, but the free market seems to be failing heathcare in some aspects (like dgroulx pointed out). Sounds like the gov't needs to step in and make more limitations on the insurance companies.

At some schools pharmacology is merely a 2-3 week course (5 days a week, 4 hours a day... or whatever). Perhaps, pharmer has more insight here (even though he hasn't had this course yet). Pharmacists do learn more about drugs than docs and docs do learn more as they go, in residencies and such. It only makes sense though- how much knowledge of drugs is necessary for a radiologist?


The pharmacology one gets in med school varies w/ the school. Some school incoporate pharm in first and second years by teaching about the drugs as they teach on the topics beincg covered in phys, anatomy, micro, and path. Other schools, like mine, have only 1 whole semester where lecturers are given 2-3 times a day 5 days a week so that you have about 12-15 lecures/wk on that subject (We have several other classes going on at the same time (path, behavioral science, ICM)). They trim out some of the fat in pharm as far as getting rid of some of the worthless pharmacokinetics (ie making log graphs of various rate order degradation of drugs and level checking of drugs like digoxin) and med chem that no one will ever use in pharmacy outside of research. We will cover all of the drugs that are taught in pharmacy school it is just that most students retention will be much less having carmmed this all in in 3-4 mo vs 3-4 years!

We will cover all of the drugs that are taught in pharmacy school it is just that most students retention will be much less having carmmed this all in in 3-4 mo vs 3-4 years!


i definitely think its all about retention...
Here our therapeutics (clinical pharmacology) crosses over into a MDs responsibility.. I was talking to a MD and he was pretty pissed off that we are being taught what you should learn in med school...
I then came up with an excellent argument...
This senario applies to clinical pharmacists who do rounds with physicians...

medicine is an ever changing field. in pharmacy school we are expected to know absolutely everything (and continue to know it as everything changes) i know the same thing is true in med school.. e.g we should be able to look at an ECG, tell what the arhythmia is and how to treat it (could anything else be causing it) The same thing is being taught in med school...
I believe the goal is.....
When rounding since we have all crammed so much material into our minds we can't possibly remember it all but maybe one person on the team will! Now i realize when you deal with stuff on a regular basis you will know all about it. But when you see something different (general practice pharm/med) you can collaborate and work together and figure out what all is going on with the patient!

I personally can't imagine cramming any more information into my little brain than what pharm school is requiring! Good luck to those with both degrees!

To the OP:

I changed my mind based on the experiences I had working as a home healthcare aid and working at 2 different pharmacies for ~2 years. I found that I wanted to play a greater role in people's lives. I wanted to more than simply fill prescriptions (and tell people that they should take their meds with food, before bed, in the morning, etc). I wanted to treat and diagnose disease. I wanted to feel as if I made a greater difference in people's lives.

I couldn't stand working at the pharmacies I worked at. It was so boring to me, and I kept thinking that I had to go through 4 years to do the same job I was already doing, only to earn ~$90k more. I looked in research, but almost every primary investigator I talked to told me that pharmacy school would not prepare me for research, and even a fellowship wouldn't even compare to a research bachelors degree.

Realistically, medical school will cost about 20k/ year, will take about 2 more years than pharmacy (plus ~3 years of paid residency), and provide 3 times the earning potential. Not to mention, with an MD you can do more things than with a pharmD.

You have to find out what is important to you in a career. To me, I need something that is going to be mentally challenging and provide me with satisfaction. Hence, I am now finishing up a degree in Biotechnology and will attend medical school next fall.

I thought about doing pharmacy and then medical school... but that is a lot of school! THe extra degree isn't going to help you. They teach you all the pharmacology that you need to know in medical school.

Actually they don't teach you all the pharmacology that you need to know. THey just skim through it so it feels like a blur. You actually won't learn pharmacology at all. Think about it, you think one semester of highly intense learning will give you all you need to know, RIGHT, don't kid yourself mate.

Actually they don't teach you all the pharmacology that you need to know. THey just skim through it so it feels like a blur. You actually won't learn pharmacology at all. Think about it, you think one semester of highly intense learning will give you all you need to know, RIGHT, don't kid yourself mate.


Which is why I gave the example about residencies and Radiologists.... not all of it applies to every kind of doc...

Keep in mind pharmacist comes in works for 8-9 hrs and goes home. WHereas the doctor lives in the hospital.

Seriously, all you pharmacy peeps, keep this in mind. Money is not everything. I'm a 4th year med student getting ready to interview for residency. If you're interested in medicine, go for it. (I did). Be warned, however, that it is not only a long road, but also sometimes a painful one. If I had to do it over again, I would have given more thought to pharmacy!
Just my opinion.

My doctor told me the same thing when I told her that I was going to pharmacy school. She said that had it been a PharmD program then she would have to done that instantly! This made me feel even better about my choice even though I had never second guessed myself. All of us in the healthcare team work together and I really feel like the doctor's coming out of med school now are learning how to appreciate and work with other healthcare workers (not to say only doctors have issues with this). I know that when I spoke to a 4th year pharm student on rotations he told me that the residents in a hospital where he just came from loved stopping by and asking him questions and they integrated him into a lot of conversations. I think that this is how it should be, by definition we (pharmacists) should be the drug experts and there is no reason why doctors shouldn't be asking us questions. Granted some people in pharmacy school don't strive to learn as much and will be happy working retail, however those of us that want to do residencies know the importance of retaining information. I hope to someday be able to work with doctors in a clinical setting.

I think that this is how it should be, by definition we (pharmacists) should be the drug experts and there is no reason why doctors shouldn't be asking us questions.

Yeah, from what I've seen in the hospital setting docs really appreciate and respect the advice of pharmacists.

I don't know why everyone is so concerned if doctors respect us. It seems like all these topics somehow come back to what doctors think about our profession. In reality, you're never going to gain the confidence of all the docs; some are always going to think we're trying to weasel our way into their business (we're not), some are going to think we're too stoopid to have anything useful to provide (re: PACtoDOC), and the rest will use us as a tool to improve their patient's lives. I don't really care which doctor thinks what. I will provide the best help I can to any physicain that needs it, and will give my input whenever I deem it necessary. If that input is ignored or ridiculed, so be it. That is not of my concern.

(By the way Baggy, is that you giving PAC a hard time on his blog? (had to ask this way since you don't accept PM's--all the women must be fillin up your in box? )

I don't know why everyone is so concerned if doctors respect us. It seems like all these topics somehow come back to what doctors think about our profession. In reality, you're never going to gain the confidence of all the docs; some are always going to think we're trying to weasel our way into their business (we're not), some are going to think we're too stoopid to have anything useful to provide (re: PACtoDOC), and the rest will use us as a tool to improve their patient's lives. I don't really care which doctor thinks what. I will provide the best help I can to any physicain that needs it, and will give my input whenever I deem it necessary. If that input is ignored or ridiculed, so be it. That is not of my concern.

(By the way Baggy, is that you giving PAC a hard time on his blog? (had to ask this way since you don't accept PM's--all the women must be fillin up your in box? )

I'm not saying I am and I'm not saying I'm not. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy though ;)

How lonely and frightening it must be to sit at the top of the food chain and be unable/unwilling to relinquish any authority. The word micromanaging comes to mind. Strip away the pharmacists, the nurses, the respiratory therapists, the occupational therapists, the nurses aids, the nutritionists - take personal responsiblity for every tablet administered, each dressing change, making sure that TPR's & BP's are dutifully recorded, I&O sheets maintained, bedding changed, and baths given will make Matt Matt one busy BUSY physician.

People sell retail short - truely. It challenges me every day in ways I could never hope to anticipate. I also love the autonomy. Hospital pharmacists are in a much more precarious position when it comes to a showdown with a tantrum throwing linen cart tipping child who has an M.D. after their name. They must have enough conviction to lay their job on the line. In contrast, retail pharmacists can lay the phone down till the screaming stops or simply hang up. What can they do except report them to the board? (and some will readily - but that sword cuts both ways)

A pocket full of PDA references which would equal a wagon full of books routinely leaves me high and dry. If you care about what you are doing your education begins at graduation and will never end ever. I am encouraged by the idea that my wife wants to go to Pharmacy school and I look forward to auditing the classes over her shoulder as she attends

BTW; if anyone is aware of a pharmacology reference and/or a physiology
reference available for pocket pc I would like to lay my hands on it...

One of my classmates has his PharmD and completed a residency. The odd thing is that he attends the pharmacology lectures. Just today during our 1 hour pharmacokinetic lecture I turned around to see him laughing. My guess is this exam will be a easy A for him.

Hospital pharmacists are in a much more precarious position when it comes to a showdown with a tantrum throwing linen cart tipping child who has an M.D. after their name.

I've never seen an MD throw a tantrum at a Pharmacist, they're too busy throwing tantrums at residents and us med students :D

Here's a typical day on hospital rounds for a pharmacist:

Attending: Hey, can we get drug X in PO form?
Pharmacist: Yes.
Attending: OK. Now excuse me will I rip a new one in my med student.
Pharmacist: Sure, knock youself out.

End of story.

^lol

Anyone thinking about Medical School after Pharmacy School?

With expertise in drugs/medications, PharmDs would make great MDs as well if we wanted to.

I'm starting to look into this just because I want to be more in a clinical setting and see patients on a day to day basis. I know there's also residency and clinical pharmacy to look into also.

What are everyone's thoughts?

Be proud of who and what you are, a PharmD, and do the clinical pharm residency, don't leave your profession to be a physician. If you want to be more clinical, maybe get a PA degree or if you want another degree, maybe an MPH, MBA, or even JD?

You know...there are 78 other different things you could have done with your pharmacy degree. You didn't even give it a chance....how sad


Exactly! It's a slap in the face to the pharmacy profession. Pharmer took a spot from someone who really wanted to be a pharmacist. If you do a Google search for "PharmD, MD" or "OD, MD" or "DC, MD", you'll find a ton of physicians who started off as something else and used that degree as a stepping stone in order to become a physician. If you want to be a physician, then do whatever it takes to get into and MD or DO program, but if you want to be a pharmacist, then be one and be happy. If you want to enhance your clinical skills, get a PA-C, which is cheaper and easier. If you want additional training, get an MPH or MBA or MS in something clincial.

Well I have successfully applied to both Pharmacy and Medical School. Not to sound arrogant or anything- Having done both, I have found that Pharmacy school was much easier to get into than medical school. I think it is a well accepted fact that medical school is in fact much harder to get into. Medical school requires extremly high grades, high test scores, research experice (for the top programs), community service, volunteer, shadowing, and an applicant to medical school is competing with a lot more people for a lot fewer spots. I took the PCAT cold and scored in the 99th percentile. I studied for months for the MCAT and scored in the 92 percentile.

However, not that this isin anyway relevant to the point of this thread. People should do what makes them most happy. I have several friends in pharmacy school that could have easily gotten into medical school, but decided against it. Just because I am saying medical school is much more competitive does not mean I am putting pharmacy down in any way. Please don't flame me for this. But, what was said was inaccurate.

"The competitiveness of applying to pharmacy school and medical school are totally different. It is like comparing the Smokey Mountains and to the Rocky Mountains. Sure, they are both mountains, but once you have seen the Rockies... the Smokies look like small hills."
-A friend who did both

Hey, my cat got into optometry school, and my pet Amoeba got into chriopractic school! :)

Exactly! It's a slap in the face to the pharmacy profession. Pharmer took a spot from someone who really wanted to be a pharmacist. If you do a Google search for "PharmD, MD" or "OD, MD" or "DC, MD", you'll find a ton of physicians who started off as something else and used that degree as a stepping stone in order to become a physician. If you want to be a physician, then do whatever it takes to get into and MD or DO program, but if you want to be a pharmacist, then be one and be happy. If you want to enhance your clinical skills, get a PA-C, which is cheaper and easier. If you want additional training, get an MPH or MBA or MS in something clincial.

I've been holed up studying for finals or I would have seen this earlier and I just couldn't let it go (hence the reason for digging up an old post). Why is it ok to get another degree like a PA-C, JD, MBA, but not an MD? One can try and make the argument that with an MBA one will still be practicing pharmacy, which I will partially accept. A person w/ a JD is very doubltfully practicing pharmcy in the traditional sense. Now comes the real question...why is it ok in this poster mind to get a PA-C but not an MD? To me this would negate the whole reasoning and logic as to being against one pursing an MD. Finally this poster had to bring up the "you took a spot from someone who wanted to be a pharmacist" :rolleyes: I think Anubis said it best "If you want to be a physician do what ever it takes to be a physician" well the same applies for that quote unqoute person's spot I took in pharmacy school. Come on, no one took anything away from another person!

I've been holed up studying for finals or I would have seen this earlier and I just couldn't let it go (hence the reason for digging up an old post). Why is it ok to get another degree like a PA-C, JD, MBA, but not an MD? One can try and make the argument that with an MBA one will still be practicing pharmacy, which I will partially accept. A person w/ a JD is very doubltfully practicing pharmcy in the traditional sense. Now comes the real question...why is it ok in this poster mind to get a PA-C but not an MD? To me this would negate the whole reasoning and logic as to being against one pursing an MD. Finally this poster had to bring up the "you took a spot from someone who wanted to be a pharmacist" :rolleyes: I think Anubis said it best "If you want to be a physician do what ever it takes to be a physician" well the same applies for that quote unqoute person's spot I took in pharmacy school. Come on, no one took anything away from another person!
I personally will have more respect for you if you are a pharmd/md rather than a pharmd/PA or NP...
i mean i guess i am an elitest (ok so i am) and i honestly feel that my pharmD means more than a PA who, while an invaluable resource for MDs, cannot do ANYTHING with out them or a nurse (again invaluable resource in healthcare).
I like my independence.
i would have a ton of respect for a md with a pharmd (hopefully a little work expierince) just because they know the level of education a pharmacist has and might be sympathetic to all of our problems.

i'm all about pharmacists in administration as well as throughout healthcare.