For those of you that decided to go to medical school after you were already enrolled in a Ph.D. program, how soon into your Ph.D. did you decide that you wanted to go to medical school? Did you ever consider taking a terminal master's degree and not finishing your Ph.D. so that you could start medical school sooner?

I decided to go to med school about a year ago, and I'm finishing my PhD this year. I already had my MS before starting my PhD, but I didn't want to go to med school at that point.

I decided about 3 months into grad school that I'd rather be in med school. I decided to wait out the year to see how I felt about it, and I'm taking the MCAT in April (I'm a first year student). I'm leaving open the option of going MD/PhD, but I'll probably end up dropping out of grad school. I'll decide after this semester. To get a masters I'd have to stay at least another 6 months or so, which would push off med school an extra year.

I decided to stick it out in my PHD program. There are many reasons I decided to stay 1.) Undergraduate Grades were low 3.3 2.) MCAT scores were low 3.) Time to retake the MCAT with Kaplan and 4.) I know that I want to attend a research-oriented medical school and having a PHD in Biomedical Science will hopefully make me look attractive to an admissions committee. Prayfully, I will finish in 2007 so that I will be able to enter into the 2007 med school class. When I look back over my graduate school career I realize I made the right decision and maybe admissions committees will think so too.



I decided about 3 months into grad school that I'd rather be in med school. I decided to wait out the year to see how I felt about it, and I'm taking the MCAT in April (I'm a first year student). I'm leaving open the option of going MD/PhD, but I'll probably end up dropping out of grad school. I'll decide after this semester. To get a masters I'd have to stay at least another 6 months or so, which would push off med school an extra year.

I decided to stick it out in my PHD program. There are many reasons I decided to stay 1.) Undergraduate Grades were low 3.3 2.) MCAT scores were low 3.) Time to retake the MCAT with Kaplan and 4.) I know that I want to attend a research-oriented medical school and having a PHD in Biomedical Science will hopefully make me look attractive to an admissions committee. Prayfully, I will finish in 2007 so that I will be able to enter into the 2007 med school class. When I look back over my graduate school career I realize I made the right decision and maybe admissions committees will think so too.

It sounds like you and I have a lot in common. Are you planning to apply for the fall 2007 class? If so, and you can manage it, take your MCAT this summer (Aug. 2005) rather than next April (2006). I am planning to apply for 2006, and I took my MCAT last summer. It was so much less stressful to do it then than it would be to try to be studying for it now while I'm trying to get my dissertation work done. Plus that gives you extra time to retake the following April if (god forbid!) that turns out to be necessary.

BTW, I do think that having the PhD makes you more attractive to schools that are interested in research. But you will have to justify to them why you are making the career switch more than you would need to as a college kid. If you haven't started already, I also suggest that you get some clinical experience (volunteer in a hospital, shadow doctors, that kind of thing) so that you have some experience to back you up when you go to interview. Good luck to you with everything. :luck:

Yes I plan to apply for the 2007class...... I'm taking that MCAT this April (2005) I need to try to get this out of the way before I take comprehensive exams. I hope that my PHD will help me out.... But you know I have to get past this MCAT!! Anyway, what discipline are you get your PHD in? What school are you attending? Its nice to chat with people who have similiar goals!
It sounds like you and I have a lot in common. Are you planning to apply for the fall 2007 class? If so, and you can manage it, take your MCAT this summer (Aug. 2005) rather than next April (2006). I am planning to apply for 2006, and I took my MCAT last summer. It was so much less stressful to do it then than it would be to try to be studying for it now while I'm trying to get my dissertation work done. Plus that gives you extra time to retake the following April if (god forbid!) that turns out to be necessary.

BTW, I do think that having the PhD makes you more attractive to schools that are interested in research. But you will have to justify to them why you are making the career switch more than you would need to as a college kid. If you haven't started already, I also suggest that you get some clinical experience (volunteer in a hospital, shadow doctors, that kind of thing) so that you have some experience to back you up when you go to interview. Good luck to you with everything. :luck:

Same plan here peeps :thumbup: Looks like you guys are already in PhD programs and near finishing, but I am hoping to start grad school this fall. I'm still a youngin' :) I have 2 interviews coming up in a couple of weeks. I thought it would be in my best interest to do it the non-traditional way, getting a PhD then a MD instead of MD/PhD program. Plus, another reason for going this route is because my previous MCAT scores is nowhere as competitive for the MD/PhD programs.

You guys are not burned out yet? For the previous posters, what programs are you in and where at?

Hi PhD and snake,

My god, I can't afford to be burnt out now....this is year 8 of my on-again, off-again graduate school career. lol. (I got my MS right after college, then took some time off before going back for my PhD.) December 2005 is the big fat graduation date planned for me, and dates in the future are closer than they appear. :eek:

I'm in FL working in pharmaceutical chemistry, which is basically synthetic organic. We are working on synthesizing lead compounds for drug discovery. It's very interesting, and even potentially beneficial to someone someday, but I have come to the realization that I just don't want to be a bench chemist for the rest of my life. I'm looking to switch to clinical research. How about you guys?

PhD, don't be scared of the MCAT, but do take it seriously and study hard for it, and make sure you take a lot of practice exams before you go to take the real thing. There is an MCAT forum that you might find helpful if you haven't gone in there yet. Also you might want to check out the non-traditional forum, as there are lots of good tips and moral support in there, too. And the MSTP forum is good as well; there are some other people in there doing PhD/MDs, although many are in MSTP programs. But they can all relate to the travails of doing both degrees, and most of the discussions pertain to people like us, too.

Anyway, both of you, I'm pleased to "meet" you as well. I wish you both the best of luck with the whole crazy process. :luck:

Here is the link to a thread on this same topic from the MSTP forum:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2245975#post2245975

I applied MD/PhD and did not get in (good MCAT but average GPA) so I enrolled in grad school and am finishing this summer. I have been accepted to med school and start this fall.

mike

That's great Dr. TOM!!!!! I wanted to pursue a dual degree (MD/PHD) but my MCAT score was too low. I also decided to go to graduate school and I am taking the MCAT and applying again. :)

Hey Im glad I found this thread. Im in the same boat as all of you are. I'm in my first year of grad school and have decided that I want an MD/PhD as well, but I've decided to go the non-traditional route by finishing grad school first and then going to medical school. I took my MCAT last August (PS: 13, VR: 7, BS: 13, WS: R) but my score is not competitive enough for the MD/PhD program at the university I'm at now, all because of that VR score :mad: . I might apply for MSTP programs at other universities that accept transfer students this upcoming application round. Otherwise I'll apply for incoming class of 2007 or 2008 and whichever class I get accepted to, I'll defer for one year giving me an extra year to finish up my PhD. Only sucky thing is some schools only accept 2-year old MCAT scores so if I have to apply for incoming class of 2008, I'll only be eligible at those schools that accept 3-year old MCAT scores. Assuming the schools I have my eye on dont change their policy about how old of scores one can submit, I'm okay so far :). Otherwise I'm going to have to take that G*d-awful test again. Oh dear Lord please no. Please NO! If you're thinking this is a lot of hassle just so I dont have to take the MCAT again, you're absolutely, 100% positively correct. As you can see, I hated my life for those 3 months while studying for that test. I never want to take the damn MCAT ever again. NEVER AGAIN I SAYS!

Anyone else in this situation? Any feedback?

Chouster

Yes, I had to re-take the MCAT because my first score from college had expired. It isn't necessarily a bad thing to re-take; I scored nine points higher the second time than I did the first time. Your VR score is low enough that you might want to consider retaking to bring it up to at least a nine if you can, although your science scores are so high that maybe it won't matter. Anyway, you have a lot of time to decide, and the best suggestion that I can give you to improve your VR is to read dense prose, a LOT, in the next few years (and stuff outside of your field, too!) Good luck with your degrees. :luck:

QofQuimica, I've taken it twice already and just like you my first score was 9 points lower (i.e. 24R) and I got a 5 on VR that time around... yikes. Anyway, you're in the situation where you have a PhD and are planning to apply (if not already) right? Do you think the fact that we've gone through graduate training, a training that includes a lot of written and verbal communication along with a buttload of critical thinking, will compensate for the VR score? That's what my PI implied when I talked to her about possibly going to medical school after graduate school. She said something along the lines of your amount of work and contribution to the field will dilute the VR score... a score that you got 3 years ago (from when I intend to apply). Maybe I'm just deluding myself just so I can feel confident about not taking the test again, but then again maybe I'm not... hm...

I encourge anyone and everyone to comment on my thinking above.

Why ask her or me or anyone else here? Call the schools that you are interested in applying to, explain your particular situation, and ask THEM what they would suggest that you do to strengthen your application. If they want you to have a higher VR, they'll tell you, and then you'll know straight from the horse's mouth. I'm happy to try to help you, but I'm not the one who'll be on the committee making the decision. :laugh: Actually I recommend calling the schools to anyone who has unusual aspects to their application. I've been doing this to come up with my list of schools (I'm applying this summer), and it has been tremendously insightful. There are some schools that I thought I'd never even consider that are now on my short list, and others that I started out liking on paper, but I was very turned off after calling them, and I won't apply to those now. So it pays to keep an open mind and not write off a school without talking to them first, nor pick a school solely based on how they look on paper.

I am in a similar situation as many of you. I am nearing the end of my 4th year of PhD program. I was in my second year (just after qualifying exam) and realized that I what I really wanted to do was medicine. Well, I guess I knew it all along I just thought that research would satisfy me. What was I thinking??? Maybe it is just my project and my lab. Anyway, I am hoping and praying for a May 2006 finish followed by med school. Studying for the MCAT is pure hell (can I say that here?). But then so is real-time PCR. Planning on taking the MCAT in April 2005. Can one really enter a MD/PhD program from the PhD side? Depending on my MCAT scores I think I will look into it. I would love to continue getting my pathetically small stipend thru med school. Do MD/PhD candidates have to have higher MCAT scores (as in higher than that years matriculating class)? Good luck to you all.

Hey everybody,
I'm in the same boat as most of you are right now. I always wanted to go to med school but couldn't when I was 18 and almost gave up my dream. After a BS in Agriculture, I got my Masters in 1999, worked as a tech for a couple of years and enrolled in a biomedical science PhD program. I graduated last month and I'm currently working in a research hospital. But, I started taking premed courses, one course a semester and I plan to apply to either the class of 2007 or 2008. So, I empathize with everybody out there and maybe we can give each moral support and tips to get through this process successfully.
So far I only finished Physics, I still have Gen. chemistry, Organic Chemistry, English and Calculus to do. I know it is a tall order, but as I said, I'm taking it one step at a time. With a PhD in biomedical science I'm hoping I will not have to take biology courses, let's see.
What's your story?
For those contemplating leaving the PhD program, think hard and twice. Will the admissions committee look at your application favorably if you drop out of the program mid way? You will probably have to justify your case really well. Also, your PhD now might help later during residency (or so I heard from somebody from our school who got his PhD and then went to med school).
Anyway, best wishes to everybody in this process.

I have a PhD in Pharmacology and 4+ years of post-grad experience. I applied this fall and got into a number of MD programs. I think my grad and post-grad experiences helped me a great deal.

Feel free to PM me with specific questions. :)

have any of you tried or know anything about an MS in Healthcare Administration? A Lady at CSU East Bay told me that a majority of their students, after fnishing their 2 years are able to go on to med. school. I was wondering, since i'm interestd in that , if you think it is a good idea or not.

For those of you that decided to go to medical school after you were already enrolled in a Ph.D. program, how soon into your Ph.D. did you decide that you wanted to go to medical school? Did you ever consider taking a terminal master's degree and not finishing your Ph.D. so that you could start medical school sooner?

I kicked the idea of med school around for years (one brother is a doctor), but I didn't really decide it was for me until about 2 years into my Ph.D. Developing friendships with some pathologists played a big role, as did realizing just how limited my view of medicine was while I was trapped in my lab. The notion of taking a terminal master's never seriously crossed my radar. I'm just too damned stubborn not to finish things.

In the end I just took the MCAT one April day, and did well enough to move on with the process.

I kicked the idea of med school around for years (one brother is a doctor), but I didn't really decide it was for me until about 2 years into my Ph.D. Developing friendships with some pathologists played a big role, as did realizing just how limited my view of medicine was while I was trapped in my lab. The notion of taking a terminal master's never seriously crossed my radar. I'm just too damned stubborn not to finish things.

In the end I just took the MCAT one April day, and did well enough to move on with the process.


Is it easy to stop you PhD and just get MS? I am asking this because I heard that the professors are not very happy with this type of choice and may not give you a good LOR.

Is it easy to stop you PhD and just get MS? I am asking this because I heard that the professors are not very happy with this type of choice and may not give you a good LOR.

Beyond a certain point, getting a terminal Master's was almost a given at my graduate institution. I know one poor girl who slaved for 5 years before quitting with her MS, but she was an extreme example. And yes, some people will probably be pissed off at you for doing so, but each situation is unique. I know one fellow who bailed out after 6 months, got an MPH and went to med school.

I'm 25 and nearing the end of my 2nd year of graduate school at a competitive graduate school. I'm concerned about personality conflicts with my advisor and about the progress of my research. I realize that, although I like the ideas behind science, I don't enjoy bench work. Doing western blot after western blot is really boring, especially when they don't produce the desired result! I quickly tune out in seminar. From what I've heard, the career prospects for biomedical PhDs are limited. I would prefer a job that is intellectually challenging and meaningful and allows me to interact with people and solve their problems. I like learning how things work and am fascinated by health-related stuff.

I'm seriously considering leaving with a master's degree at the end of this year, working for a year, and possibly applying to medical school for 2007. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to apply to med school while in grad school. My undergrad GPA was 3.2. I took some classes while working as a research assistant--got a D in immunology but an A- in biochem. How does performance in graduate coursework factor in? As part of my program, I took a class with the medical students, enjoyed it and got an A. I could get letters of rec from my college advisor, the doctor I worked for as a research assistant, but probably not my grad advisor. I'm going to apply for a volunteer position at a local health clinic to see if I would like this line of work and to get another letter of recommendation.

My concern is that I never took physics as an undergrad. I have completed all of the other pre-reqs. Even without the physics course, I would study for and take the MCAT next April 2006 and, then, take the physics requirement in fall 2006. Also, I'm squeamish about drawing blood and am unsure if I want to spend my late twenties and early thirties as a sleep-deprived and belittled trainee. I would probably choose family practice over something like surgery.

An alternative would be physical therapy. Any thoughts or suggestions?

I would prefer a job that is intellectually challenging and meaningful and allows me to interact with people and solve their problems.
Most folks who have been both physicians and researchers will tell you that medicine becomes very routine after a while and research is where the intellectual challenge is. I believe that. Still, you should follow your heart.


I'm seriously considering leaving with a master's degree at the end of this year, working for a year, and possibly applying to medical school for 2007. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to apply to med school while in grad school. .
I would do it afterward, personally. You'll end up having to explain why you are not honoring a commitment made to graduate school and that could be quite damaging. If you get your M.S., start working and study for the MCAT at the same time, it will look better. The logic of your application essay must be completely sound. Medical schools will use ANY excuse to trim their massive applicant pool.

My undergrad GPA was 3.2. I took some classes while working as a research assistant--got a D in immunology but an A- in biochem. How does performance in graduate coursework factor in?
Most schools will tell you they care more about your undergraduate work. However, a similar or better performance is expected in graduate school. That said, you'll see that many folks have gotten into medical school with a C or D here and there and with a GPA between 3.0 and 3.4 if there is a strong MCAT performance.

My concern is that I never took physics as an undergrad. I have completed all of the other pre-reqs. Even without the physics course, I would study for and take the MCAT next April 2006 and, then, take the physics requirement in fall 2006.
Stop! I made this mistake. I never took physics as an undergraduate. I never even took it in high school. I turned up for the August 2005 MCAT with zero knowledge of physics, other than what I tried to pick up on my own. I signed up for physics I and II, starting right after the MCAT. People will tell you that a prep. course is good enough (though I didn't take one) but these courses are reviews; they expect first-hand knowledge of physics. Without this, you'll get caught by the MCAT trickery on that section. This ultimately was my lowest section and, although I was accepted, I had to explain this obvious deficiency on the MCAT. It will REALLY hurt you. I would take the prerequisite course first if I had to do it all over again.

Also, I'm squeamish about drawing blood and am unsure if I want to spend my late twenties and early thirties as a sleep-deprived and belittled trainee. I would probably choose family practice over something like surgery.
If you're questioning your commitment now or your ability to be humbled on a daily basis during this career, that should be a huge red flag right there. Perhaps taking time off after graduate school and gaining health-related experience would be wise after all.


An alternative would be physical therapy. Any thoughts or suggestions?
People will give you all kinds of advice but you'll have to live with your decision in the end. Follow your heart and you'll not go far wrong. Good luck. :thumbup:

Thanks for the advice, Scottish-chap. I like research, the investigative aspect of it, but it's not a passion. I think my passion might be using my scientific expertise to help people more directly. I'm going to do some reading, talk to people, and volunteer, to find out if medicine is the way to go.

I agree that it's probably better to quit the PhD program before applying & possibly getting accepted to medical school. That way, it would seem more like you are making a deliberate choice instead of just bailing out. Also, I imagine it would be difficult to tell your advisor "Hey, I won't be here next month or anytime after, because I'm going to medical school." Actually, I would love to tell him that, but anyway....

Has anyone here dropped out & then applied to med school? Any info/advice on how you made the transition (when you quit, started applying, how you explained your decision to med schools, etc) would be greatly appreciated!

As for the physics requirement, considering that I'm currently cash-strapped and am already on a university campus, why not sit in on two semesters of physics (for free, but not auditing) before taking the mcat in april 2006, applying to schools thereafter, and then taking physics for credit when the possibility of admission seems greater?

From what you’ve said it definitely sounds like you should get out of your Ph.D. program, however make sure to get that masters. Is medicine the right choice for you, only you can answer that so definitely get that clinical experience, and maybe take more than a year off before applying to med school, to decide that. You might be asked, “If you quit grad school, what is to stop you from leaving an MD or DO program?”, can you answer that appropriately? Or the question “why medicine”? Regardless of which area you go into, it is going to be a big commitment and require a major part of your attention for 4 years of school plus several in residency. Maybe explore some other options like social work, MPH, nursing, ect., if you like being in the area of healthcare, but aren’t fully sure that the MD path is for you. Since you mentioned physical therapy, you should try to get some volunteer experience in that area, which you should be able to find at your local hospital or medical center.

If you just sat in on physic’s classes do you think you would really learn, or just tend to show up irregularly, as for me I have to study for tests, attend labs ect. to really learn the material, but maybe just lecture works for you. In your year off you could consider getting a job at a University that would let you take a course for free every quarter (this is a typical benefit of most staff/faculty jobs at schools), and you could make some money and get physics out of the way. Your GPA is fine to get you in somewhere, just spend time really studying for the MCAT as it will improve your interview options. It might be beneficial for you to have those physics grades in before applying, to give the adcoms one less reason not to accept you.

A big problem is going to be not having your grad advisor as a LOR, as that is probably the most important person to get a letter from if you're going from Grad to Med, as some institutions require a letter from the grad advisor. I suppose if you have conflicts with them, you could definitely explain that if asked about it. I would just make sure to get a letter from someone in your grad program, committee member or instructor, as adcoms will want a current evaluation of your academic abilities. The best advice on this situation, can be attained by talking to the admission dean at some of the schools you are looking at attending, as most should be willing to sit down and discuss your situation with them. Just my .02, best of luck with whatever direction you take.