Hi, all. I haven't been to SDN in a while and I haven't seen a thread for AZCOM class of 2009, so I decided to start one. If there is one already started, please let me know.
I submitted my FAFSA and stafford loan applications and I'm basically waiting for the school to start in august. What's everyone else doing?

Me too, just waiting. I was on here a couple months ago and there was an azcom official 2009 thread, but i don't see it now.

I should be submitting my financial aid stuff pretty soon and then the countdown begins to the orientation and first day of class. By the way, my name's Matt and I'm a graduate of the University of Colorado at Boulder. After spending the last 7 years here in Colorado, it's time to move down to the desert. I look forward to meeting all of you!

Hi guys. I can't wait to see you all when the school starts. I'll definately need private loans so I was considering the Signature loan program through Midwestern. Are you guys going to take out a private loan and if so, which bank are you going to consider?

I used CitiAssist for undergrad so I might look at them again for extra med school loans. On the Osteo forum I posted a bunch of questions for current AZCOM students about finaid and housing so you might want to check those threads out. Have any of you decided on housing yet? Are you going to live on-campus or off-campus? With a roomate or by yourself? I'm pretty sure I'm going to live on campus, but I'm not sure whether to live alone or with a roomate yet.

Hey guys, I just received a mail from MWU today. It is a notification telling me that a third-party vendor of the university had mistakenly exposed my personal information including my name, address, and SSN. Supposedly, people who filled out the institutional financial aid form between feb 22-mar 4 may be affected by this incident. Did any of you, either from AZCOM or CCOM receive this kind of letter? I'm sort of freaking out here. Name and address are negligeable, but SSN? Fortunately, they enclosed several resourceful websites and beaureus for me to start contacting.

Luckily I haven't submitted my financial aid information just yet, so I probably wasn't affected. But that's scary to know that someone can get a hold of your SSN like that with the current problems with identity theft. I would get on that right away. Keep us updated.

Hey guys, I just received a mail from MWU today. It is a notification telling me that a third-party vendor of the university had mistakenly exposed my personal information including my name, address, and SSN. Supposedly, people who filled out the institutional financial aid form between feb 22-mar 4 may be affected by this incident. Did any of you, either from AZCOM or CCOM receive this kind of letter? I'm sort of freaking out here. Name and address are negligeable, but SSN? Fortunately, they enclosed several resourceful websites and beaureus for me to start contacting.

I'm a MSII. Some of my classmates received the same email. Fortunately, I haven't filled out my FA info yet. Did the school offer you free credit report checks for 6 months? I think that's what they did for current students.

I'm a MSII. Some of my classmates received the same email. Fortunately, I haven't filled out my FA info yet. Did the school offer you free credit report checks for 6 months? I think that's what they did for current students.

Yes. The school offered to send me a check for some $20 to subscribe to a credit monitoring service. Fortunately, I am already getting that service through my credit card company. Supposedly, the school discovered this problem on the 4th of this month but I haven't received any news of suspicious activity from the credit monitoring service, yet. I hope it stays that way :)

I think the info was just exposed for a small frame of time, but you are probably safe as someone malicious who have had to be looking for at the same time as it was exposed.

For financial aid loans (both private and federal), consider www.northstar.org and their THE program. I have found it to be the best available.

Hi all! I just received the letter and email saying that my info. was release too :( I tried to sign up for the credit report monitoring service at truecredit.com, but for some reason, they can't access my information, so i was unable to use their service. anywayz...i added a "security alert" on my report through one of the credit bureaus, checked my report and didn't find anything unusual. but it still scares me to know that someone might have my info. and it can be used at anytime! Does anyone know what else I can do at this point to protect myself? Thanks alot in advance. Can't wait to meet all of you in the fall, take carez!!

Got to keep this thread alive, so here are some things:

1. Signed up for the credit monitoring service and nothing bad appears to have happened yet. I was the victim of identity theft about three years ago, so this is pale in comparison in my book. :)

2. Living off campus with my significant other. We're heading out in June to find a nice place, probably one of the ones within a mile or two that are posted at rent.com. Anyone hear anything good or bad about those off-campus places that are nearby?

3. Not using a private lender as of now since I'll max out Stafford and get Perkins if they have some available for MS1s.

Arizona desert, here I come!

Just last week I filled out an app for on campus housing where I chose the two bedroom luxury housing. I put in a roomate request, but I'm curious to know if there are any SDNers currently looking for a roomate on campus. If so, send me a PM. And let's do our best to keep this thread updated!

I'm interested to know if there are any current or future AZCOM students who graduated from CU-Boulder. Talking to the pre-med advisor, she told me there is a first year there right now. If you're around, I'd like to hear from you! But lets avoid topics such as the Ward Churchill and football recruiting scandles.

Hi all! I just received the letter and email saying that my info. was release too :( I tried to sign up for the credit report monitoring service at truecredit.com, but for some reason, they can't access my information, so i was unable to use their service. anywayz...i added a "security alert" on my report through one of the credit bureaus, checked my report and didn't find anything unusual. but it still scares me to know that someone might have my info. and it can be used at anytime! Does anyone know what else I can do at this point to protect myself? Thanks alot in advance. Can't wait to meet all of you in the fall, take carez!!

Hi, baobaobee! I'm sorry to hear about your situation. As of right now, there is really nothing you can do except to monitor your credit report to detect any suspicious activities. The security alert placed through the credit bureaus will expire in 90 days, although you can choose to place the alert again after 90 days. So, unfortunately, there really isn't adequate protection for us consumers in place right now. I heard, however, that in light of recent huge frauds that occurred with Choicepoint and other companies of the sort, many states are considering passing a legislation which will allow the consumers to "freeze" their credit and "thaw" it when they need to for opening accounts and purching homes or cars (this legislation only exists in California right now). When that bill hits in Arizona, I hope it'll pass!! I'll see all of you in 5 mos (gosh I can't wait)!!! :D

Hello future classmates!
Does anyone know when azcom is supposed to release the new tuition cost for 05/06? :thumbdown

I know that Western just released theirs so I would assume that AZCOM should be sending us something in the near future. But what I'm more interested to know is when the 2005 match results will be released. If anyone knows when this might happen let me know!

Hi, baobaobee! I'm sorry to hear about your situation. As of right now, there is really nothing you can do except to monitor your credit report to detect any suspicious activities. The security alert placed through the credit bureaus will expire in 90 days, although you can choose to place the alert again after 90 days. So, unfortunately, there really isn't adequate protection for us consumers in place right now. I heard, however, that in light of recent huge frauds that occurred with Choicepoint and other companies of the sort, many states are considering passing a legislation which will allow the consumers to "freeze" their credit and "thaw" it when they need to for opening accounts and purching homes or cars (this legislation only exists in California right now). When that bill hits in Arizona, I hope it'll pass!! I'll see all of you in 5 mos (gosh I can't wait)!!! :D
Thanks for the input! I hope it'll pass too. as of right now, I have placed the 90 days fraud alert, and I'll place another one when this one expires. I'm pretty sure I'll be living on campus 1st year and need a roommate. but I'm trying to decide if I want the luxury 2-br apt or the standard 2-br apt. I didn't get a chance to look at them during my interview. could someone tell me what the differences are. I'd appreciate it!

Hey baobaobee,

I was trying to decide the same thing and I've opted to go with the luxury option just 'cause I heard there's quite a bit more space for two people. A good person to contact on this is a guy with the username LukeWhite. Although the housing app includes a roommate request, I'm open to finding one outside of that. PM with more info about yourself since I'd like to find a roommate sometime soon.

I just checked the new housing price list for 05/06 and the standard two bedroom is now referred to as a one bedroom + den, which I think is much more accurate. I've toured campus housing several times and having a roommate in the standard two bedroom (one bed + den) would be a pretty tight squeeze. I applied for a two bedroom luxury which is over twice the size of the standard. IMO if you plan on spending very much time in your apartment I would go with the larger luxury apt. However, if you like spending your time at the library then you probably won't mind living in a smalll area.

I just checked the new housing price list for 05/06 and the standard two bedroom is now referred to as a one bedroom + den, which I think is much more accurate. I've toured campus housing several times and having a roommate in the standard two bedroom (one bed + den) would be a pretty tight squeeze. I applied for a two bedroom luxury which is over twice the size of the standard. IMO if you plan on spending very much time in your apartment I would go with the larger luxury apt. However, if you like spending your time at the library then you probably won't mind living in a smalll area.

I chose to go with the standard, just because I don't see myself spending much time at 'home.' Anyone know about the quality of the fitness facilities in the area? (I'm probably going to go with LA fitness, only 2.5 miles away from azcom).

Anyone from southern cali going to azcom? Any other gay students?

Hey hylacinerea,

Do you have a roommate lined up yet? I too am going for the luxury two bedroom, and I'm not sure whether they set us up with a roommate or we do it ourselves. PM me with some of your info if you're still looking for a roommate.

Hello Inquiringmind24,

Not sure about the roommate situation. I put down on my housing app that I wanted a roommate, but I'm not sure if we can pick our own or not. It doesn't seem like it would be a problem but who knows. I'll give the housing guy a call on Monday and I'll pm you later.

Hey guys,

Just moved to Phoenix a few days ago and I'm definitely going to be psyched to spend the next four years here. Actually, it might be closer to three considering the reality of the clinical years. Regardless, it's gonna be crazy.

Anyone planning on heading down here in the next couple of months? If anyone is up for it I thought a few of us could link up before classes begin and spend a few days backpacking in the Grand Canyon.

Hey Jason,

It's funny that I just now read your post as I finished sending an e-mail to you this morning asking if you had moved to the Phoenix area. Glad to hear that you're liking it there and looking forward to spending the upcoming years in the area. Doing some backpacking in the Grand Canyon would be great and I'll try to join you depending on when I arrive in August. Hikes in Havasupai Canyon are really cool and it would be good to be near water in the scorching temperatures that we'll see in August. I'll keep you updated on that.

-Matt

Just wanted to throw out a few ideas for off campus housing for anyone that hasn't yet had a chance to check things out down here. I spent a few days last week stumbling from one property to the next and other than maybe a head ache here's what I found.

San Prado and Arrowhead Highlands are only a block or so from campus and both offer the typical "luxury apartment experience"...a bit pricy but not bad if you're with someone or can land a roomate. Also, Monte Viejo is a property just off of the 101, maybe 10 minutes east of campus. Monte Viejo is a tight property with a contemporary flare...definitely worth checking out. Also, Camelback Square in the Biltmore District (downtown) has lofts that are worth checking out if you want to be more central...cool location but probably a 20 minute drive to campus. If anyone has any questions feel free to drop me an e-mail.

I've been putting off the dreaded FAFSA and finally decided to knock it out. What a daunting dose of reality...ouch. Well, uncle sam now has a strangle hold on me for...ohh...probably the rest of my life. It didn't really hit me until the point in the application with the estimated monthly payments. It's just crazy what medical school costs these days. On that note, I find it completely insane that the Bush administration drastically cut the funding to the loan repayment programs for those physicians that practice in underserved areas. What kind of sick logic is that?

Just curious if anyone had any advice on private lenders?

I too am looking for a quality private lender in order to take out loans that will cover the expenses past what the Stafford Loans can. An AZCOM student did recommend the site. (http://www.northstart.org) . It has some pretty good private loans from what others have been saying. I just can't decide how much more I'm going to borrow after the maximum Stafford. Plus, I'm thinking maybe I should wait until the award letters go out to see what the finaid office offers for private loans. What can you say about the Bush administration? They just approved drilling for oil in Alaska and now they are cutting physician loan repayment funding. It's just unfortunate that we had so many people in this country who voted for that clown. Let's just hope that in 2008 they will smarten up.

Sorry this (http://www.northstar.org) is the site you want to go to. I'm not sure where the other goes...

...it's just unfortunate that we had so many people in this country who voted for that clown.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Unfortunately, he's a clown with many puppets.

I just checked the new housing price list for 05/06 and the standard two bedroom is now referred to as a one bedroom + den, which I think is much more accurate. I've toured campus housing several times and having a roommate in the standard two bedroom (one bed + den) would be a pretty tight squeeze. I applied for a two bedroom luxury which is over twice the size of the standard. IMO if you plan on spending very much time in your apartment I would go with the larger luxury apt. However, if you like spending your time at the library then you probably won't mind living in a smalll area.

Where did you find the housing price list for 05/06? Thanks.

Just came across this online newspaper article (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0407duval07.html) in this mornings issue of the Arizona Republic and I thought I should post a link to it. My thoughts on the article. In terms of clinical sites for rotations in the valley, the fact that the proposed state funded medical school in Phoenix did not receive the expected funding from the legislature could be considered a positive course of events due to the already limited rotation sites we have in teaching hospitals within Arizona. On another note, after reading the article I realized that there was no mention of Midwestern University at all. I'm not sure if what was not stated in this article reflects the currently strained state between Midwestern University and the University of Arizona. A state that indirectly effects our access, as students, to many of the teaching hospitals in the valley. I have read several threads that discuss this but I still don't understand why there has to be such tension between the two medical schools in Arizona. Any thoughts?

I'm stunned everytime I hear this talk about the tension between MWU and the UA medical school. According to the article posted above Arizona has a great shortage of physicians especially rural. Now, one would think that MWU, the Arizona AOA, private DOs, and students would all heavily lobby the state legislature to allow MWU students unlimited access to the UA healthcare system. Given the great shortage of physicians, it doesn't seem like this would be an especially difficult battle. If MWU students were granted full access to the area hospitals, it would surely increase the number of Arizona medical students that stay for residency and practice in Arizona. This seems like an easy solution to the state's shortage problem, and it wouldn't require the massive amount of funds that starting up a new med school would. Additionally, the state could even throw a few $$$ to MWU students willing to stay and practice in AZ. Someone should write a response to the article above and call it, "Actually, Arizona already has another medical school!"

By the way, does everyone know that there are actually several other DO schools that do have access to the UA hospitals? Just not AZCOM!

Where did you find the housing price list for 05/06? Thanks.

Here's the link to the page. I think it's under "contract dates/prices".

http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/administrative/SS/ssHousing_AZ.htm

since you guys are accepted, I'm moving this thread to the Osteopathic forum :thumbup:

Just came across this online newspaper article (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0407duval07.html) in this mornings issue of the Arizona Republic and I thought I should post a link to it. My thoughts on the article. In terms of clinical sites for rotations in the valley, the fact that the proposed state funded medical school in Phoenix did not receive the expected funding from the legislature could be considered a positive course of events due to the already limited rotation sites we have in teaching hospitals within Arizona. On another note, after reading the article I realized that there was no mention of Midwestern University at all. I'm not sure if what was not stated in this article reflects the currently strained state between Midwestern University and the University of Arizona. A state that indirectly effects our access, as students, to many of the teaching hospitals in the valley. I have read several threads that discuss this but I still don't understand why there has to be such tension between the two medical schools in Arizona. Any thoughts?

There is no tension between the U of A and Midwestern. I promise. The problem is that Midwestern is not willing to pay hospitals like U of A does to get its students rotations. What you have to realize is that midwestern is run solely as a business, profit-only oriented. U of A is run like an educational institution with profit being part of the equation. The reason the faculty at midwestern has said that U of A is not allowing rotations to happen is because if they tell the truth, no medical student will seriously consider midwestern as their destination. We have had offers from great programs, but the school was not willing to pay. The rotations that are provided are mostly preceptorial or located in forsaken locations where the need is so high that they are willing to take midwestern students almost free of charge. As new students to AZCOM it will be up to you to make sure that your voices are heard not by the dean, but rather by the president of the University. You guys will pay almost 4 times the tuition paid at U of A. You might as well get your money's worth. Good luck.

I'm stunned everytime I hear this talk about the tension between MWU and the UA medical school. According to the article posted above Arizona has a great shortage of physicians especially rural. Now, one would think that MWU, the Arizona AOA, private DOs, and students would all heavily lobby the state legislature to allow MWU students unlimited access to the UA healthcare system. Given the great shortage of physicians, it doesn't seem like this would be an especially difficult battle. If MWU students were granted full access to the area hospitals, it would surely increase the number of Arizona medical students that stay for residency and practice in Arizona. This seems like an easy solution to the state's shortage problem, and it wouldn't require the massive amount of funds that starting up a new med school would. Additionally, the state could even throw a few $$$ to MWU students willing to stay and practice in AZ. Someone should write a response to the article above and call it, "Actually, Arizona already has another medical school!"

Great post. Currently, midwestern is not really recognized as a medical school in Arizona. As a matter of fact hardly anyone, and I mean hardly anyone, knows what midwestern university is. The closest someone came was "oh, you guys are pharmacists, right?". The local newspapers have written on the topic that you discuss on several occasions, and on all occasions they have not mentioned AZCOM as a medical school, even when several students wrote them and tried to open up their minds. Now I do have to say, this lack of recognition is usually limited to the general public, because AZCOM has residents, chief residents, fellows, attendings or chiefs in almost every hospital. Fortunately, the quality of students at AZCOM is really, really high and there is a demand for AZCOM residents all over the country. But when your medical school does not have any affiliation with local hospitals, the media and people in general do not see AZCOM med students until they graduate and become residents at which time where you graduated from does not matter. I hope that I am not coming across as negative.

[/QUOTE]By the way, does everyone know that there are actually several other DO schools that do have access to the UA hospitals? Just not AZCOM![/QUOTE]

Yes, only AZCOM was not willing to pay local hospitals for rotations. That is why it is ridiculous when AZCOM faculty says "we tried to pay them money but they did not want our $$$$$ because U of A said no". As we all know, hospitals are highly business-oriented. I mean when you get charged $500 for one aspirin pill at the hospital, that should tell you something about the willingness of hospitals to take your money. AZCOM is a great school in the first 2 years. After that you are on your own. If you are going into family medicine then you might be okay with local preceptor-based rotations (depending on the quality of residency program you are applying to), but if you are like the vast majority of medical students at AZCOM or going into internal med, OB/GYN, Peds, emergency medicine or especially surgery, you will travel outside of the state during 3rd and 4th years to hospitals w/ residency programs in these fields that will take you and give you the hospital-based training that the entire US medical system is based on and residencies love.

To all of you AZCOM students who complain...Stop it..
As a former azcom grad who went through the system, preceptor and all, let me tell you the truth. I am now one of the residents teaching the med students at those teaching hospitals you all think are the best...I love what I do, and it is great, but for me, not so sure for you.

You do not realize how great you have it. At your friendly ol teaching hospital where you need to compete with fellow med students, residents, externs, fellows, np's, pa's, and then the attendings to learn and do work, you do not get nearly as good of an experience as you will and do at AZCOM. As you 3rd and 4th years who are complaining on this web site rather than working. I f you picked up your books, asked questions, stayed late, and went in early, spent time with the patients, whose volume at AZCOM med, with both its inpatient and outpatient system, is 10 times what you would see in the same inpatient month at most medical systems you will see how qualified you will be as residents let alone physicians no matter where you end of for residency. You have the opportunity to be one on one with the best (the attendings). ou have the opportunity to know normal patients and abnormal patients extremely well. And as a resident, I will tell you that is what you need to know when you come out ready to start your residency. And I promise you, if you actually study like you are supposed to be doing in your 3rd and 4th years, you will be more than prepared for residency and well on your way to becoming a great physician. Your actual numbers in 3rd and 4th year are usually 50% inpatient and 50% outpatient, and for 95% of medicine, you must realize your practice in residency will not be your practice as an attending. Residecy usually reflects the inefficient medical training system of traning physicians how to be hospitalists and not preparing them for their specialty.

Wake up and enjoy azcom for the great opportunities it offers you.
Yes like every medical school in the country there are school politics, but do your job and learn medicine and save lives. Trust me AZCOM does the job.


Great post. Currently, midwestern is not really recognized as a medical school in Arizona. As a matter of fact hardly anyone, and I mean hardly anyone, knows what midwestern university is. The closest someone came was "oh, you guys are pharmacists, right?". The local newspapers have written on the topic that you discuss on several occasions, and on all occasions they have not mentioned AZCOM as a medical school, even when several students wrote them and tried to open up their minds. Now I do have to say, this lack of recognition is usually limited to the general public, because AZCOM has residents, chief residents, fellows, attendings or chiefs in almost every hospital. Fortunately, the quality of students at AZCOM is really, really high and there is a demand for AZCOM residents all over the country. But when your medical school does not have any affiliation with local hospitals, the media and people in general do not see AZCOM med students until they graduate and become residents at which time where you graduated from does not matter. I hope that I am not coming across as negative.

By the way, does everyone know that there are actually several other DO schools that do have access to the UA hospitals? Just not AZCOM![/QUOTE]

Yes, only AZCOM was not willing to pay local hospitals for rotations. That is why it is ridiculous when AZCOM faculty says "we tried to pay them money but they did not want our $$$$$ because U of A said no". As we all know, hospitals are highly business-oriented. I mean when you get charged $500 for one aspirin pill at the hospital, that should tell you something about the willingness of hospitals to take your money. AZCOM is a great school in the first 2 years. After that you are on your own. If you are going into family medicine then you might be okay with local preceptor-based rotations (depending on the quality of residency program you are applying to), but if you are like the vast majority of medical students at AZCOM or going into internal med, OB/GYN, Peds, emergency medicine or especially surgery, you will travel outside of the state during 3rd and 4th years to hospitals w/ residency programs in these fields that will take you and give you the hospital-based training that the entire US medical system is based on and residencies love.[/QUOTE]

Goooooober and Mohel,

Great posts. Solid insights coming from drastically different perspectives. One couldn't really ask for more than that.

Goooooober and Mohel,

Great posts. Solid insights coming from drastically different perspectives. One couldn't really ask for more than that.

Thank you medtraveler. Let me just say that I completely agree with Mohel. Not a single thing he said in his post is wrong. I am one of those students who goes in early and leaves late every day. To the class of 2009, welcome to AZCOM, you have chosen a great medical school. The purpose of my post was to educate and not to bash. You can certainly come to AZCOM and achieve all your goals, but you have to work a little harder and be a little more educated about the whole medical school and residency system than you would at a more established (and generous) medical school where everything is setup for you in hospitals your 3rd and 4th years. In conclusion, please do talk to as many AZCOM students and Grads as you can to get a very balanced view of AZCOM and residency. If you have any additional questions pm me. Good luck to you all.

anyone have access to it? (current students perhaps)?

The 2005 match list is available on pdf format when you go to this (http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academic/AZCOM/azcomDean.htm) site. One annoying thing about this pdf is that the PGY-2 column ends up in the middle of the last five pages. Let me know what everyone thinks...

I'm interested to know if there are any current or future AZCOM students who graduated from CU-Boulder. Talking to the pre-med advisor, she told me there is a first year there right now. If you're around, I'd like to hear from you! But lets avoid topics such as the Ward Churchill and football recruiting scandles.
hey, how's it going? what year did you graduate from CU? I finished in 2001, so i've taken a couple years off. can't wait to start at AZCOM in august!

Is anyone else confused about our third and fourth year clinical rotations? lately I've found quite a few people on SDN saying that our school is not affiliated with any hospitals, and it is for profit only. so how exactly would we set up rotations ourselves when the school is not paying anything? what kind of programs would accept us to train with them without receiving money? I'm kinda worried now about the quality of clinical rotations we'll receive. Hopefully it won't be as bad as what people say on here. :rolleyes:

Is anyone else confused about our third and fourth year clinical rotations? lately I've found quite a few people on SDN saying that our school is not affiliated with any hospitals, and it is for profit only. so how exactly would we set up rotations ourselves when the school is not paying anything? what kind of programs would accept us to train with them without receiving money? I'm kinda worried now about the quality of clinical rotations we'll receive. Hopefully it won't be as bad as what people say on here. :rolleyes:

There is always so much discussion on sdn regarding this issue. It seems like there have been really good experiences and really bad experiences with this system. Overall I think the best thing to do is to look at the match lists. AZCOM grads have had great match sucess and I think that if the quality of rotations was subpar then it would be reflected in the match. I think a lot of the negativity surrounding the rotations is coming from people who might have interviewed at but didn't or don't actually attend azcom -not to say that there aren't any students at azcom that aren't satisfied with the rotation situation. As with anything it's probably what you make of it, just like in a difficult undergrad class, there were always those students who tried to fight the system and ended up with a bad grade and then went around talking about how bad the class was.

See my post from 3-4 before, and trust me, the rotations are good, unless of course you are the idiot who believes that everything will be spoonfed to you. 3rd and 4th year rotations in med school, as I now teach at the "teaching hospital", are pretty much as such. You will follow 2-4 patients depending on your skill, coupled with intermittent lecture, and then with bedside teaching, but most importantly how much of an interest you take in what you learn and what you read and ask questions about.
AZCOM as a former grad, is the same thing, except you have an opportunity to rotate in a system that has less burden of teaching a every part of the med ed process, residents, fellows, med students, pa, np, etc...You have 1:! with the attendings, have an excellent outpatient "real medicine understanding, and affiliations with inpatient hospitals in phoenix such as MARICOPA COUNTY, MESA GENERAL, John C Lincoln, at times GOOD SAM, more and more Phoenix Childrens, Tempe St Lukes, the Dept of Corrections, Arizona State Mental Health System, Kingman Regional Medical Center, The VA in phoenix and Prescott, plus loads of small regional hospitals throughout az.

Good luck on having a good as experience as you could get at azcom elsewhere.


There is always so much discussion on sdn regarding this issue. It seems like there have been really good experiences and really bad experiences with this system. Overall I think the best thing to do is to look at the match lists. AZCOM grads have had great match sucess and I think that if the quality of rotations was subpar then it would be reflected in the match. I think a lot of the negativity surrounding the rotations is coming from people who might have interviewed at but didn't or don't actually attend azcom -not to say that there aren't any students at azcom that aren't satisfied with the rotation situation. As with anything it's probably what you make of it, just like in a difficult undergrad class, there were always those students who tried to fight the system and ended up with a bad grade and then went around talking about how bad the class was.

Is anyone else confused about our third and fourth year clinical rotations? lately I've found quite a few people on SDN saying that our school is not affiliated with any hospitals, and it is for profit only. so how exactly would we set up rotations ourselves when the school is not paying anything? what kind of programs would accept us to train with them without receiving money? I'm kinda worried now about the quality of clinical rotations we'll receive. Hopefully it won't be as bad as what people say on here. :rolleyes:

baobaobee, as a current and TOP student at AZCOM, I can tell you that the system is not terrible, it's just different than at every other medical shcool. I completely disagree with both Mohel and hylacinerea. A person is not an idiot for expecting to get what they pay for, Mohel. If I am going to pay 200+ thousand dollars for my education, you better believe I want a big fat spoon fed into my mouth every step of the way. Also, either Mohel is uninformed or is intentionally being misleading as there are no current affliations with any of the hospitals he listed with the exception of Kingman Regional Hospital in the middle of nowhere and Tempe St Lukes for a cardiology rotation. The fact is that 3rd year medical students are not allowed to do rotations at any of the local hospitals and they must often resort to traveling to rural areas or out of state to recieve the critical training at teaching hospitals that every decent residency requires of their applicants. Even though this restriction improves during 4th year when students are allowed to do rotations at many local hospitals, residency programs will judge you on 3rd year rotations mainly. Now, does this mean that students at AZCOM are recieving inferior education compared to other medical schools? Absolutely not!!! The reason for this is that the students at AZCOM are in general very highly motivated and the vast vast majority travel during the 3rd and 4th years to get those critical hospital rotations at teaching hospitals. So bottom line, if you are motivated and like to travel to different areas both in-state and out of state, then you can get a great education at AZCOM. But please do not be fooled by the "AZCOM Raw Raw" attitude of the few that are looking out for self-interest only. As far as hylacinerea's comments go, you don't have to be depressed, or failing or mad or stupid or whatever to objectively analyze and state the very important flaws of a program that you will commit to for the next 4 years. The way I see it, if you are going to pay 200+ thousand dollars to AZCOM and then do your rotations in another state, why not just get into the medical shcool of another state and save yourself plane ticket expenses and a whole lot of tuition.

Hey gooooober,

I know that KCOM and DMU students do almost all of their rotations out of state. Although these rotations are set up by the schools in a lottery system, wouldn't the students still be left with travel expenses ontop of paying 200000K to tuition and other fees? It seems that AZCOM's system would allow more flexibility and variety. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

The way I see it, if you are going to pay 200+ thousand dollars to AZCOM and then do your rotations in another state, why not just get into the medical shcool of another state and save yourself plane ticket expenses and a whole lot of tuition.

For all the dismissal of those who defend AZCOM's setup, you'd think we wouldn't have to keep answering this question. No other medical school is going to give you the third-year experience and fourth-year flexibility that AZCOM does. For some this isn't worth the trade-off; for many of us, particularly those interested in full-scope primary care and targeting a limited and specific set of residency programs, it is.

As for those who are going on about the for-profit status of the school: I could very well mistaken, but my reading of the docs suggests that it's a not-for-profit institution. This doesn't mean that the tuition isn't rapacious; that's an open question. But I'm not sure that anyone's fattening their wallets quite so recklessly as has been suggested.

I'm so sick of seeing this post. So, here is the deal. Consider yourself lucky that AZCOM doesn't have the traditional rotation set up. You only have to go out of state for your hospital based rotations, but thats only if you choose to. You can do every one of them here in the valley if you wish or every one of them in a different state for that matter. For example, I am only going out of state for two months. And I will still fullfill the reqs. to apply for the Good Sam rotation. Its a different system. But, I prefer it. Good Sam and St. Josephs 3rd year roations are observation only. I just got a call the other day from a friend doing his OB/GYN rotation preceptor based. He assisted in a C-section and performed 25% percent of the surgery. If you think that you are going to get that kind of experience on a traditional based set up, think again. But, if you want to bitch about AZCOM because you are a "TOP student" (...please), go ahead. Why would you say that anyways? I am a top student... as if that makes you any different from anyone else attending this school. Or better yet, you need to say that in order to validify yourself. Arrogance. And in case you haven't heard, the school is trying to have the governor oust the UA contract with the hospitals in this valley. By the time the class of 2009 reaches 3rd year a lot will have changed. So be patient. Until then focus on whats important... now, not three years down the road.

I'm so sick of seeing this post. So, here is the deal. Consider yourself lucky that AZCOM doesn't have the traditional rotation set up. You only have to go out of state for your hospital based rotations, but thats only if you choose to. You can do every one of them here in the valley if you wish or every one of them in a different state for that matter. For example, I am only going out of state for two months. And I will still fullfill the reqs. to apply for the Good Sam rotation. Its a different system. But, I prefer it. Good Sam and St. Josephs 3rd year roations are observation only. I just got a call the other day from a friend doing his OB/GYN rotation preceptor based. He assisted in a C-section and performed 25% percent of the surgery. If you think that you are going to get that kind of experience on a traditional based set up, think again. But, if you want to bitch about AZCOM because you are a "TOP student" (...please), go ahead. Why would you say that anyways? I am a top student... as if that makes you any different from anyone else attending this school. Or better yet, you need to say that in order to validify yourself. Arrogance. And in case you haven't heard, the school is trying to have the governor oust the UA contract with the hospitals in this valley. By the time the class of 2009 reaches 3rd year a lot will have changed. So be patient. Until then focus on whats important... now, not three years down the road.

DFrancyk, go back and read my post more carefully. The reason I said I am a top student is because hylacinerea implied that those who "complain" are usually those who are doing bad academically, not successful and unhappy. I am none of those. The fact that I am a top student does make a difference in a sense that I am not subjective in my evaluation of the AZCOM system. I am very successful at AZCOM but feel that the program has major flaws that MUST be corrected, period. Also, the preceptorial rotations that AZCOM offers may be fantastic when it comes to being hands on and teaching you how to do things. BUT, residencies, especially good ones, want to see that their applicants have done rotations in the traditional system of hospitals with residency programs, even in primay care fields and they will judge you mainly on 3rd year rotations. This is a FACT that is stated by many many many 4th year students applying to residency programs and also by residents and attendings. Dear Luke, nothing in today's world is not-for-profit. Bottom line, AZCOM will give you a great education (one that gets you the good residency), only if you are willing to travel and get it yourself. If you are willing to travel then you will be fine and happy at AZCOM.

Dear Luke, nothing in today's world is not-for-profit.

We can differ on the rest and on the value that this or that primary care residency program puts on Genuine Hospital Rotations (it's my impression, though, that most top students making these arguments didn't spend much time looking into the nuances of FP programs). But this "nothing is not-for-profit" is just the sort of empty cynicism that sounds pretty without actually meaning anything. Whether the conglomerate uses its money wisely or unwisely, it is under certain legal restrictions as a not-for-profit which would seem to be adhered to. And stating that AZCOM is for-profit, as some are doing, when it's explicitly *not*, whatever your opinion on its financial responsibility, is simply irresponsible.

DFrancyk, go back and read my post more carefully. The reason I said I am a top student is because hylacinerea implied that those who "complain" are usually those who are doing bad academically, not successful and unhappy. I am none of those. The fact that I am a top student does make a difference in a sense that I am not subjective in my evaluation of the AZCOM system. I am very successful at AZCOM but feel that the program has major flaws that MUST be corrected, period. Also, the preceptorial rotations that AZCOM offers may be fantastic when it comes to being hands on and teaching you how to do things. BUT, residencies, especially good ones, want to see that their applicants have done rotations in the traditional system of hospitals with residency programs, even in primay care fields and they will judge you mainly on 3rd year rotations. This is a FACT that is stated by many many many 4th year students applying to residency programs and also by residents and attendings. Dear Luke, nothing in today's world is not-for-profit. Bottom line, AZCOM will give you a great education (one that gets you the good residency), only if you are willing to travel and get it yourself. If you are willing to travel then you will be fine and happy at AZCOM.

You're right. I did not see the previous post saying that the only med students who complain are those who are doing bad or whatever. Heh! I find more often than not its those who are on the top who tend to complain. I'm guilty as charged. I have my differences with AZCOM as well. I am counting down the four weeks we have left before we can finally say our second year is over and my association with the school is no more than two Tuesdays a month. But, I am tired of seeing people go on and on and on about our rotation system. Yup, its not perfect. And no, its not bad either. As you mentioned we do have to travel for one or two rotations, but do what I did. Leave during summer! Too damn hot to be wearing a suit anyways. I know its hard to travel for those who have a family or whatever, but trust me it works out. As far as AZCOM changing things, you know as well as I do that they are working on it. And I am sure that in time it will be fixed. But complaining isn't getting us anywhere. Look how far our complaing got the OMM department. We have to continue to take on responsibility and be proactive. Remember it was one of our classmates who brought this whole rotation thing to the attention of the governor's health advisor. And if I remember the story... she wants to remove the hospital's funding if they don't accept our students into their rotations. As far as getting good residencies... you can talk to as many fourth years as you want... even third years... and they will all tell you different things. You have to do what is right for you and you alone. If you can't leave the state. Then don't. If you don't want to take the USMLE then don't; I'm not. In the end, you will see that you will land yourself a good residency that works for you. Heh.. this is all the time I'm willing to give talking about this subject; got a huge path test to study for. As far as all you new acceptants, feel free to post any questions. But take my advice, just lean back and congratulate yourself for a job well done; you got accepted! And relax. Next year will be upon you soon enough. Take care and hopefully I haven't offended you goooooober

I didn't intend to suggest that there is a correlation between academic achievement and attitude towards the rotations at azcom. I was just trying to give an example, which I apparently didn't articulate well enough. Sorry if I offended anyone as that was not my intention. Bad example I guess :)

Guys,
Funny you mention that, Because I personally did rotations at all the hospitals listed while at AZCOM, except tempe st lukes. Either way as mentioned before, for the dude who wants medicine spoofed to him, good luck in medicine, because when residency starts, you have much to learn about life. In osteopathic or allopathic "teaching hospital" based system it is not spoodfed. This is to prepare you for a life long attitude of self-learning. They want you to become a expert in becoming a self learner who be stay ahead of the game and to become critical and accepting of research and evidenced based medicine throughout life. This is a process of medicine you will begin in medical school and advance in residency and fellowship. For the people complaining of the 200+ thousands in loans, well for that AZCOM is even better. The classess many of you are not taking...i.e. medical economics, managed care, practice management, are classes you should be demanding because that is what is going to help you with a system where the average reimbursement is $5-8 per patient/per visit. Further AZCOM gives you the opportunity to learn an ever changing healthcare scenario, to understand academics, private practice, community hospitals, rural medicine, etc. This is something few at a traditional teaching program have the opportunity to see. And again as often a receiver of questions, "HOW DO I CHOOSE A RESIDENCY, or A SPECIALTY" from students who have only seen teaching hopsitals, it is hard for them to figure out what they wanted to do, where they want to practice, or what kind of program they want when they have never really seen medicine in the real world.

Oh by the way, AZCOM will set up all your rotations for you if you would like. And also by the way similarly to every program in the country, osteopathic and allopathic, If you want to look at "big names", you have your entire fourth year to do your sub-I, and no one really cares if you went to big names to get into those. Just call the center/hospital/medical school and get an application early.

Hi, I am looking for roommates to share a 4bdrm 2ba house in the Highlands subdivision. It's a 2min drive to campus according to Google Maps. Please PM me if you have any questions.

How long did it take for you guys to get your acceptance letter/phone call after your interview? Thanks

How long did it take for you guys to get your acceptance letter/phone call after your interview? Thanks

Littleg1225 - were you in the final interview group for this year? I was as well and have not heard back either. The admissions office said that we should be hearing back late this week or early next........Good luck!

Littleg1225 - were you in the final interview group for this year? I was as well and have not heard back either. The admissions office said that we should be hearing back late this week or early next........Good luck!

Yes I interviewed on the 7th. Good luck to you too!

Here is an article that I hope future AZCOM (and current) students find interesting. The article is quite long ... and it is relevant to Arizona ... but I'll copy/paste the more relevant portion of the article

http://www.azcapitoltimes.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=2&ArticleID=1978

excerpts from the above link

Mr. Cannell said he is also concerned about a lack of cooperation between the UofA medical school and the osteopathic physician, or DO, community.

“The medical school has been resistant to endorsing clinical rotations [third and fourth-year student training in hospitals] for osteopaths,” he said. “That to me is a sign that they’re not interested in serving the underserved populations of Arizona. Most osteopaths go into primary care. In talking to the [DO] students, they would prefer to stay in Arizona.

“Before I get on this medical school thing wholeheartedly, I want assurance that they’re going to actively support the osteopathic clinical rotations.”

DOs receive the same medical education as MDs, with additional emphasis on the musculo-skeletal system.

Mr. Rivers of the hospital association says Mr. Cannell’s comments “are quite valid.”

“But the roadblock to a more collaborative relationship between our teaching hospitals and the osteopathic college of medicine is not within the hospital community,” Mr. Rivers said. “Historically, the roadblock has been at the University of Arizona College of Medicine which, so far, has actively stood in the way of a more collegial relationship with Midwestern University” [Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine], a private school established in Glendale in 1995.

“This definitely needs to change, but it could change in about five minutes if the [UofA] College of Medicine would give the green light,” Mr. Rivers said.

The UofA’s Mr. Joiner said the DO situation is the result of a policy by his predecessor.

“I don’t believe that is one we should use going forward,” he said. “The most important thing is to work collectively to come up with a new policy that takes all factors into account.” Mr. Joiner said, however, there are complex organizational, financial and curriculum factors to consider in a new policy.

Third-and-fourth-year UofA medical students serve clinical rotations at nine Valley teaching hospitals.

Kathleen Goeppinger, president and CEO of Midwestern, said there have been some hospitals in Phoenix that — “out of allegiance” to the UofA — have not accepted DOs for their available rotations, but added, “We don’t find any discrimination.” She said Midwestern is setting up residency rotations in Sierra Vista and Kingman, and MDs often take DOs into their practice.

Over the past four years, an average of 21 per cent of Midwestern graduates who served internships and residencies in Arizona have stayed in the state to practice, the school said.

Midwestern spent $80 million in capital expenses to launch the school and operates on a $40 million annual budget.

The university also graduates pharmacists, podiatric physicians, physician assistants, nurse anesthetists, perfusionists and occupational therapists.

Amanda Weaver, executive director of the Arizona Osteopathic Medical Association that licenses and regulates 1,400 DOs, said there has been a problem getting surgical rotations at some area hospitals.

“I’m not sure what it’s all about, but there is a problem,” she said.

Littleg1225: I interviewed in Nov & heard back in 2-3wks (by mail). May have also been a bit delayed b/c it was around the Thanksgiving holidays. Good luck, hope you'll be joining us in the fall!

btw, anyone have suggestions on reputable movers to AZ? Relocating from Boston, MA in the fall and a bit worried from hearing all the mover horror stories.

How long did it take for you guys to get your acceptance letter/phone call after your interview? Thanks

Hey everybody. :D
As I prepare to make the move to good ole Glendale I am having some problems with finding a roommate that is on the same professional track as we will all soon be on. So I'm trying my luck on SDN. Are there any females, either new or current DO students that would like to live off campus together starting 8/01? I am looking at getting an apartment at Arrowhead Highlands or San Prado since its seems those are the most convenient. I'm am open to living elsewhere though as long as it is close to MU since Im sure I will end up spending many a long nights in the library and labs. :thumbdown If your interested drop me an email at Psyche021@aol.com and I'll give you some more info on me. :p

Yes I interviewed on the 7th. Good luck to you too!
I interviewed on the 5th and recieved and acceptance letter today :) I look forward to meeting you all in August.

We'll look forward to seeing you in Glendale this August! By the way, where in CO are you from?

Sounds like I'm joining this thread a little late. My name's Kona and I'm looking forward to meeting all of you in August.

Hi, Kona, welcome to join us!!! :clap:

Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st. So, all those worried about rotations here in the state should chill out and focus on whats more important and thats their sanity. Also, Kirksville is scheduled to open up a school here in Mesa in two years. Good luck all.

Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st. So, all those worried about rotations here in the state should chill out and focus on whats more important and thats their sanity. Also, Kirksville is scheduled to open up a school here in Mesa in two years. Good luck all.

Thanks for the update! Great news!

Was this discussed at the Dean's meeting today?

Yup.

That's great news about the rotations! We'll see what pans out. Today I got an e-mail from Jose Ponce the housing director who said the luxury apartments were gone and only the standard two bedrooms were left. Given that I turned in my housing application quite a while ago, I was suprised that my app wasn't processed earlier. I went ahead and told him to book me the standard two bedroom with a roommate. Has anyone lived in the standard two bedroom appt with a roommate? If so, how was it?

That's great news about the rotations! We'll see what pans out. Today I got an e-mail from Jose Ponce the housing director who said the luxury apartments were gone and only the standard two bedrooms were left. Given that I turned in my housing application quite a while ago, I was suprised that my app wasn't processed earlier. I went ahead and told him to book me the standard two bedroom with a roommate. Has anyone lived in the standard two bedroom appt with a roommate? If so, how was it?

The standard with a roommate is a little cramped...I have a luxury w/ roommate and it's just big enough. Have you looked into the apartments across the road? There's a big new development up.

Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st.

I'll believe it when I read it. Do you have a URL or any proof of this? There have been rumors about this for a while and it never materializes. I won't trust anything said at Dean's meeting unless it comes to fuition and is in writing.

There is no tension between the U of A and Midwestern. I promise. The problem is that Midwestern is not willing to pay hospitals like U of A does to get its students rotations. What you have to realize is that midwestern is run solely as a business, profit-only oriented. U of A is run like an educational institution with profit being part of the equation. The reason the faculty at midwestern has said that U of A is not allowing rotations to happen is because if they tell the truth, no medical student will seriously consider midwestern as their destination. We have had offers from great programs, but the school was not willing to pay. The rotations that are provided are mostly preceptorial or located in forsaken locations where the need is so high that they are willing to take midwestern students almost free of charge. As new students to AZCOM it will be up to you to make sure that your voices are heard not by the dean, but rather by the president of the University. You guys will pay almost 4 times the tuition paid at U of A. You might as well get your money's worth. Good luck.


Unlike DFrancyk and Luke, I'm a 4th year that is about to graduate. I have actually gone through the process of traveling during 3rd year etc. As a student that is about to graduate from AZCOM and knows more about the process than most people on this thread, I can assure you everything said in the above paragraph is true. The perceived notion that the University of Arizona is some monster is simply not true. Can you really blame the U of A? Why would you allow Midwestern' students to free load and rotate at hospitals when they are paying nothing for them. And it's not like Midwestern can't afford to pay for those rotation priviledges. AZCOM is a private school and thus profits are it's incentive. They don't want to pay for you to rotate locally when they know most students can deal with traveling for 6 months during their 3rd year and rotate locally during their 4th year during elective months.

There are many great things about AZCOM but this aspect to the school is clearly a negative. And usually the people who try to cover this aspect are eager first and second year students who have not actually gone through their 3rd and 4th years. I was like them and once I got some real exposure to clinicals, my opinion changed.

To all of you AZCOM students who complain...Stop it..
As a former azcom grad who went through the system, preceptor and all, let me tell you the truth. I am now one of the residents teaching the med students at those teaching hospitals you all think are the best...I love what I do, and it is great, but for me, not so sure for you.

You do not realize how great you have it. At your friendly ol teaching hospital where you need to compete with fellow med students, residents, externs, fellows, np's, pa's, and then the attendings to learn and do work, you do not get nearly as good of an experience as you will and do at AZCOM. As you 3rd and 4th years who are complaining on this web site rather than working. I f you picked up your books, asked questions, stayed late, and went in early, spent time with the patients, whose volume at AZCOM med, with both its inpatient and outpatient system, is 10 times what you would see in the same inpatient month at most medical systems you will see how qualified you will be as residents let alone physicians no matter where you end of for residency. You have the opportunity to be one on one with the best (the attendings). ou have the opportunity to know normal patients and abnormal patients extremely well. And as a resident, I will tell you that is what you need to know when you come out ready to start your residency. And I promise you, if you actually study like you are supposed to be doing in your 3rd and 4th years, you will be more than prepared for residency and well on your way to becoming a great physician. Your actual numbers in 3rd and 4th year are usually 50% inpatient and 50% outpatient, and for 95% of medicine, you must realize your practice in residency will not be your practice as an attending. Residecy usually reflects the inefficient medical training system of traning physicians how to be hospitalists and not preparing them for their specialty.

Stop with the cheerleading routine already......Yes, it's true that at a teaching hospital, you will compete with fellow med students, residents, externs, fellows, np's, attendings and pa's but guess what that is what your residency will be like. Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of doing your residency in some preceptor's office when he will serve you milk and cookies and let you go home at 4 PM. The hands on nature of the preceptorship is nice but residency is more than hands-on procedures. The hospital has a language of its own. There is something to be said for being pimped on the spot among your fellow med students that you won't get in a preceptorship. You will have to learn how to survive in a hospital setting and you won't be prepared for that unless you do rotations in a hospital based setting. I matched into a very prestigious IM program and I did two months of IM at a teaching hospital and I'm glad I did it because when I did my IM electives in Phoenix, I was ahead of every student I was with.

And no student should feel entitled to attend AZCOM. It's not as if AZCOM isn't charging you tuiting (a lot of tuition I might add). Providing rotations in local hospitals...IS THEIR JOB. That is what you are paying tuition for. It's not a priviledge for them to provide you with opportunities to rotate locally. If AZCOM is going to charge you 40 per year for tuition, the least they could is work with the University of Arizona to work out some payment plan so that our students can rotate locally in hospitals they are affiliated with.

If you were admitted to another medical school, I would encourage you to do your research and examine their third and fourth year curriculum when compared to AZCOM. The first two years at AZCOM are nice but then after that, the organization is very loose.

More information that you should know

AZCOM doesn't provide grades during your clinical rotations of your 3rd and 4th years. This can be extremely detrimental. If you speak to most medical students, they will tell you that clinical grades and board scores are the most important factors to acquiring a competitive residencies. This is particularly true if you perform only average during basic sciences. At most medical schools, clinicals gives you an opportunity to make up for average or even above average grades during basic sciences.

Your class rank at AZCOM is permanent after your first two years. You can't raise your GPA or class rank after your first two years. This favors those who do well during their first two years and penalizes those who do better during clinicals. Many medical students do okay during basic sciences and compensate for their grades during clinical years. AZCOM doesn't inform students of this.

The standard reply to the above is:"Yes but you will receive letters of recommendation that serrve as proof of your competency during your rotations." Letters of Recommendation are nice but they are not the same as receiving an Honors in surgery for example. It's not the same. And many medical students that match at competitive programs will not have great basic science grades but will excel during clinicals.

Now most of you will just say: "I will excel basic sciences and then not worry how I do during clinicals." Easier said than done. Yes, if you finish in the top 20%, you are golden but if you are not, then it doesn't bode so well for you particularly since your class rank is set and you can't raise it with a good performance during clinicals. And considering there are 140 or so per class, 20% only accounts for 28 students. So the remaining 112 students are at a disadvantage.

Is anyone else confused about our third and fourth year clinical rotations? lately I've found quite a few people on SDN saying that our school is not affiliated with any hospitals, and it is for profit only. so how exactly would we set up rotations ourselves when the school is not paying anything? what kind of programs would accept us to train with them without receiving money? I'm kinda worried now about the quality of clinical rotations we'll receive. Hopefully it won't be as bad as what people say on here. :rolleyes:

You call hospitals you are interested in rotating at and asking them if they have space and if they could allow you to rotate there for a month. You are basically free loading and asking if they will allow you to tag along. Many hospitals are okay with this policy. But some hospitals will not allow you to do this. You will find that out when you call various hospitals. You might consider purchasing a fax machine because you will be doing all of the paperwork yourself. Clinical ed will offer little help in this area if you want to go out of state. Consider it another 3 credit class because that's how much work you will be doing outside of class setting these up. You then have to set up your own housing, travel, budget etc. on your own. Nope, AZCOM doesn't pay for any of this. That the "penalty" you get for avoiding those "great" preceptor rotations and for desiring to normal....I mean hospital based rotations. There is much more to it than this but this should give you the basic idea.

For all the dismissal of those who defend AZCOM's setup, you'd think we wouldn't have to keep answering this question. No other medical school is going to give you the third-year experience and fourth-year flexibility that AZCOM does. For some this isn't worth the trade-off; for many of us, particularly those interested in full-scope primary care and targeting a limited and specific set of residency programs, it is.

I have read many of your posts and you continue to spread misinformation based on your beliefs of the school rather than the facts itself. I know you love AZCOM but you should not do so at the expense of spinning information or failing to provide the facts as they are. You were a first year student last year and knew nothing about the rotation setup yet you were arguing with third and fourth year students about clinical rotations. You are doing this again as a second year.For example, it's not true that no other school offers the type of "flexibility" that AZCOM offers. Nearly every medical school in the U.S. allows their students to do elective rotations outside their school. And many schools will allow students to do core rotations elsewhere if it is approved.

You call this flexibility and that's clearly not what it is.It's not flexible when a student is forced to travel during third year on their own dime because there are no opportunities to rotate locally in normal hospital based rotations.

And if you still insist this is a type of flexibility then most Caribbean medical schools also offer this type of "flexibility" considering their students have the lovely opportunity of traveling for each rotation during third year. Yes, Ross is as flexible as Midwestern then.....maybe even more so since they have more rotation sites in the U.S.

Hi, everyone! Some interesting discussions going on here. My question is off topic from the above post. Has anyone heard from fin aid office since submitting FAFSA? Anyone have any idea when they will be processed? Thanks for any input.

I have read many of your posts and you continue to spread misinformation based on your beliefs of the school rather than the facts itself. I know you love AZCOM but you should not do so at the facts of spinning information or failing to provide the facts as they are. You were a first year student last year and knew nothing about the rotation setup yet you were arguing with third and fourth year students about clinical rotations. You are doing this again as a second year.For example, it's not true that no other school offers the type of "flexibility" that AZCOM offers. Nearly every medical school in the U.S. allows their students to do elective rotations outside their school. And many schools will allow students to do core rotations elsewhere if it is approved.

You call this flexibility and that's clearly not what it is.It's not flexible when a student is forced to travel during third year on their own dime because there are no opportunities to rotate locally in normal hospital based rotations.

And if you still insist this is a type of flexibility then most Caribbean medical schools also offer this type of "flexibility" considering their students have the lovely opportunity of traveling for each rotation during third year. Yes, Ross is as flexible as Midwestern then.....maybe even more so since they have more rotation sites in the U.S.


Wow, strong words for someone who doesn't seem to be too clear on what he's talking about. We can argue the virtues of rotation setup another time. The point at issue is clinical grades. I recall an elaborate presentation in wich the dean went over the half dozen things that make up our clinical grades, while you say there's no grading at all. You're clearly in the know about so much of the school's goings-on; perhaps you can explain this to me and the incoming students.

You sound awfully bitter; certainly your prerogative. But if you must be negative, keep your facts straight.

(And if you insist on bringing up rotations again, perhaps you could give us a side-by-side comparison of, say, COMP's fourth year flexibility for external rotations versus AZCOM's. As a second year, I have a little trouble reading words and tables, but it sure seems to me as if there are some pretty clear limitations at other schools that AZCOM doesn't have.)

Hi, everyone! Some interesting discussions going on here. My question is off topic from the above post. Has anyone heard from fin aid office since submitting FAFSA? Anyone have any idea when they will be processed? Thanks for any input.

The following is from an email I received from the finaid office:

"We will be processing your information around the beginning of May and
then sending the award letters out. We are still working on the 05-06
cost of attendance."

I'm assuming that means they haven't decided how much to raise the tuition :thumbdown

Wow, strong words for someone who doesn't seem to be too clear on what he's talking about. We can argue the virtues of rotation setup another time. The point at issue is clinical grades. I recall an elaborate presentation in wich the dean went over the half dozen things that make up our clinical grades, while you say there's no grading at all. You're clearly in the know about so much of the school's goings-on; perhaps you can explain this to me and the incoming students.

You sound awfully bitter; certainly your prerogative. But if you must be negative, keep your facts straight.

Good point LukeWhite! I was just thinking, as I read the above posts by novacek88, about that presentation on interview day where they talked about things such as grading during clinical rotations. It will be interesting to see what novacek says about this.

Good point LukeWhite! I was just thinking, as I read the above posts by novacek88, about that presentation on interview day where they talked about things such as grading during clinical rotations. It will be interesting to see what novacek says about this.

I was perhaps too nasty in that post, and I apologize to you 2009'ers since actual information will be more helpful than snark. We no longer have honors in clinical rotations. However, we're graded on a variety of factors, including your COMLEX scores, Standardized Patient Exam scores, shelf exams, preceptor evaluations, and a few other things I can't recall right now. There's a pretty clear formula.

Incidentally, a word of advice for those watching their ranking during the *first* two years. While some students will likely be 90s in everything, lesser students like me have to prioritize. Make sure you know how many credits each class is worth--it's easy to mismanage time studying crazily for a three credit class when the seven credit class will make a much bigger difference to your rank.

Best of luck with all the preparation!

There has been a lot of talk on this thread and others that claim AZCOM's unwillingness to pay local hospitals is the reason it can't establish some sort of rotation program in the area for 3rd years. If this issue is simply about money then why would the State of AZ get involved? Wouldn't the state simply just tell azcom to pay up or shut up? Why would so many people be getting on the hospital's and the UofA's case if it were just about azcom not wanting to pay? I'm not saying this is or isn't the case because I don't have a lot of first-hand knowledge here, but it doesn't make sense that anyone would get involved if it is merely an issue of failure to pay for services rendered.
Does anyone know what azcom's view is on this issue? Does azcom believe that it should be allowed to establish a rotation program at area hospitals for free?

Hey guys,

Following is a response I gave to someone about rotations. Of course, I'm a lowly second year, so take this with as much salt as you like. The AZCOM advantage I discuss, though, is one that's rather unique and I think worth considering from Day 1 as you start to plan out your career.

--------------------

I'd encourage you to consider at least a little moving if you can handle it. Of course, family concerns, etc keep some people from doing so. But AZCOM has very strong Kingman rotations that will offer you more third-year clinical experience than you could get at any other medical school in the country. You can also set several of those up in a row and so not move for months, if you like.

I set up most of my rotations individually with our rotation coordinator. These were all outside Phoenix and so not in the lottery system. This let me choose what specialty I wanted when, and so I was able to get an order that will be most advantageous for my goals. For example, I'm set on FP: I start out with two FP rotations with lots of hands on experience, and my third FP rotation, which is famous for its challenge and the huge number of babies students deliver, is much later, after I do my OB, Peds, and IM. I set up my surgery before OB: I'm not interested in surgery *except* for C-sections, and so when I get into my obstetrics rotation I'll have plenty of experience with the technical details so that I can get my hands dirty. Set up the other way, I'd almost certainly be only observing on the tough procedures.

As far as I know, this is more or less unique among all schools, and it's an advantage I haven't seen discussed much. While staying in Phoenix will likely mean a more traditional setup in which order is less in your control, being able to do even just a few rotations in outer Arizona (Kingman, Sierra Vista, Prescott, etc) will have a huge impact on your clinical education and how much you're able to get out of each. This sort of advantage could never be implemented universally across med schools, and so AZCOM offers someone willing to put in some strategic planning a tremendous opportunity.

Hi, everyone! Some interesting discussions going on here. My question is off topic from the above post. Has anyone heard from fin aid office since submitting FAFSA? Anyone have any idea when they will be processed? Thanks for any input.

I actually just called to inquire about financial id the other day and was told that we should be given our financial packages by the end of May. They are still determining the amount of tuition for next year so things are being held up.

Thanks hylacinerea and Psyche021 for your replies. I'm certain the tuition will be hiked, but *fingers crossed* hopefully not too much :(

Wow, strong words for someone who doesn't seem to be too clear on what he's talking about. We can argue the virtues of rotation setup another time. The point at issue is clinical grades. I recall an elaborate presentation in wich the dean went over the half dozen things that make up our clinical grades, while you say there's no grading at all. You're clearly in the know about so much of the school's goings-on; perhaps you can explain this to me and the incoming students.


You are doing it again Luke. Rather than give older students the benefit of the doubt, you want to assume you know more than us and debate with us only to admit later on that you were unclear about issues. You did this with Boomer, Goober and now myself. This is a perfect example. Read below

Yes, you will take shelf exams and you will be graded on them with a certain percentile being given. HOWEVER, your actual grade will be a Pass or a Fail based on your percent that you earn. Your class rank will not affected by your performance on those shelf exams. And there is a reason for this. Everyone has a different schedule as to what rotations they do at a given time. So for example the students who took the surgery shelf later on would be benefitted because students who did their surgery rotation early thus taking the surgery shelf exam early would pass on their knowledge to the rest of the class. Students who took the test later would benefit from these questions being passed down. Students complained that this was an unfair advantage and thus they decided to award Pass/Fail only. Therefore, residency directors rely on your letters of recommendation to assess how you did during your clinical rotations.

Is that clear enough or are you insistent on spreading more false information?

You are doing it again Luke. Rather than give older students the benefit of the doubt, you want to assume you know more than us and debate with us only to admit later on that you were unclear about issues. This is a perfect example. Read below

Yes, you will take shelf exams and you will be graded on them with a certain percentile being given. HOWEVER, your actual grade will be a Pass or a Fail based on your percent that you earn. Your class rank will not affected by your performance on those shelf exams. And there is a reason for this. Everyone has a different schedule as to what rotations they do at a given time. So for example the students who took the surgery shelf later on would be benefitted because students who did their surgery rotation early thus taking the surgery shelf exam early would pass on their knowledge to the rest of the class. Students who took the test later would benefit from these questions being passed down. Students complained that this was an unfair advantage and thus they decided to award Pass/Fail only. Therefore, residency directors rely on your letters of recommendation to assess how you did during your clinical rotations.

Is that clear enough or are you insistent on spreading more false information?


All right. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt. Would you care to explain what role COMLEX scores, SPE exam scores, preceptor evaluations, professionality evaluations, etc, play in this "pass/fail" system? You might also take a stab at why they're *proportionally* weighted if it's only a pass-fail situation. See, it would seem to me as if one would only assign proportionality if actual grades were being assigned (as *we were told explicitly* they are). But by all means: Enlighten me.

All right. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt. Would you care to explain what role COMLEX scores, SPE exam scores, preceptor evaluations, professionality evaluations, etc, play in this "pass/fail" system? You might also take a stab at why they're *proportionally* weighted if it's only a pass-fail situation. See, it would seem to me as if one would only assign proportionality if actual grades were being assigned (as *we were told explicitly* they are). But by all means: Enlighten me.

What seems to you is irrelevant. You only need to be concerned with the facts.You are a second year student. Why don't you actually rotate somewhere first and then tell me what "grade" you receive at the end. That should be interesting. i have no interest in arguing with someone who is so obstinate that he can accept information from a student who has already been there. I don't feel like writing 3 paragraphs answering your question only for you to shoot me down questioning my sincerity. In short, all of those factors are taken into consideration which leads to your final grade being either a Pass or a Fail. However, your class rank and overall percentage is set after your first two years. Now go ahead and ask Mohel and others to say I'm wrong. I dare you. Go ahead buddy, a second year like you knows more than all of us who are about to graduate.

There has been a lot of talk on this thread and others that claim AZCOM's unwillingness to pay local hospitals is the reason it can't establish some sort of rotation program in the area for 3rd years. If this issue is simply about money then why would the State of AZ get involved? Wouldn't the state simply just tell azcom to pay up or shut up? Why would so many people be getting on the hospital's and the UofA's case if it were just about azcom not wanting to pay? I'm not saying this is or isn't the case because I don't have a lot of first-hand knowledge here, but it doesn't make sense that anyone would get involved if it is merely an issue of failure to pay for services rendered.
Does anyone know what azcom's view is on this issue? Does azcom believe that it should be allowed to establish a rotation program at area hospitals for free?

Ask yourself this, why does Kirksvillve students have rotating priviledges in local Phoenix hospitals but AZCOM students don't? Kirksville is a DO school. They don't even have a campus here yet their students have been allowed to rotate in those same U of Arizona sanctioned hospitals that we have been denied during third year. So I suppose, the University of Arizona just hates AZCOM for no reason but loves Kirksville? How does that make any sense? If U of A was so against a DO school coming here, why have Kirksville students had free reign here for years?

You have to remember that the students talking about the State of Arizona getting involved etc. is beig stated by AZCOM students who have received this information from the AZCOM administration. Thus far, I have not heard from any credible source about the state forcing U of A's hand or anything of that sort. I have read anything of the sort. I have not seen any law stating that as of July first AZCOM students can rotate locally during core rotations because the state came down hard on the University of Arizona.

Furthermore, i don't see how the state would benefit by accepting AZCOM students for rotations for free. We are using their services not vice versa. It costs them money to train us not vice versa. These 3rd year students not residents so you can't even argue that third year students work for free and provide free scut. We are not even trained well enough to be scut. Those residents not third year students. Third year students are more or less a drain on a system because residents and attendings take time out of their schedule to train. It's a necessary part of the medical educational structure but it's not like third year students provide this amazing labor force.

Novacek, group_theory (among others) posted an article not long ago on exactly this issue. I suspect that the good group_theory is not quite so in the thrall of the AZCOM administration as we poor rubes are given that he doesn't go to the school. Unfortunately, the AZCOM admins seem to have gotten to the reporters too, as well as the governor, her lackeys, various state legislators, and the president of UoA.

As for clinical rankings, there's no sense arguing without any additional information. I will ask the clinical ed department for the protocols and post them.

As for clinical rankings, there's no sense arguing without any additional information. I will ask the clinical ed department for the protocols and post them.

Why don't you ask Mohel. If he graduated recently, then he will attest to what I said. We used to offer honors and we did away with that. Now your grade is either a Pass or a Fail and it doesn't affect your class rank. Your class rank is set after your first two years.

Better yet, e-mail the registrar Christy Schenk, you know the person who actually puts the grades down on your transcript, about when class ranks are established. She will tell you what I did. Your class rank is set after you first two years.

Here's the link to that article:

http://www.azcapitoltimes.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=2&ArticleID=1978

I am the kind of person that hopes for the best but plans for the worst. So I will accept that rotations are being opened up in Phoenix when I see it. However, I am married with a family, and I am gladly rotating rurally in AZ this coming year.

I look forward to getting a lot of hands-on experience. I have worked in a
teaching medical facility in the past, so I don't feel as though I will be missing anything by not rotating through these places and picking up the culture...

To each his own. An education is ultimately what you make of it. I am not bitter about the AZCOM clin ed situation simply because I knew what I was signing up for.

Good luck to you all next year!

Oh...

I think that novacek is right. Our class rank is set at the end of MSII, but the Dean's letter will also have a "Professionalism" score that accounts for years 3 and 4 in addition to your GPA/rank status.

The professionalism score includes your preceptor evals, post rotation exams, comlex I score, MSIII comprehensive exam score, and MSIII SPE score.

Oh...

I think that novacek is right. Our class rank is set at the end of MSII, but the Dean's letter will also have a "Professionalism" score that accounts for years 3 and 4 in addition to your GPA/rank status.

The professionalism score includes your preceptor evals, post rotation exams, comlex I score, MSIII comprehensive exam score, and MSIII SPE score.

Well it's nice to see that Cindy is informed. Anyway, this was the only point I was trying to make. You cannot raise your class rank and overall percentage (we don't have GPA's) by your clinical performance since you are only given a Pass or Fail. The actual grade on your transcript will be a Pass, it won't be a percentage. Personally, I feel this is a drawback to AZCOM because you can't compensate for average grades during basic sciences. Your class rank and overall grade is based on your first two years alone. This penalizes students like Luke who are great with people and have excellent clinical skills.

To the upcoming first years, you won't know your class rank until the conclusion of second year. The school prevents the release of your class rank to prohibit needless competition. I can tell you this though; at AZCOM it's not uncommon for students who have a 87-88% overall to be in the bottom half of the class. There are some bright students at AZCOM.

Now I am not saying that "I" know anything about this topis...this is just a bit from a recent grad of AZCOM.

I was told by a then fourth year who matched at a competitive residency that his/her class rank went from top 50 to top 20 after the end of third year just b/c of the exams and such. This was this person's way of beating into me the need not to slack on the MSIII exams.

Now I am not saying that "I" know anything about this topis...this is just a bit from a recent grad of AZCOM.

I was told by a then fourth year who matched at a competitive residency that his/her class rank went from top 50 to top 20 after the end of third year just b/c of the exams and such. This was this person's way of beating into me the need not to slack on the MSIII exams.

The easiest way to confirm this is to ask the registrar Christy Schenk about the issue. A lot of time clinical ed isn't aware of class rank plays into this but Christy is the registrar and she is the one who calculates and records the grades from which your class rank is established. She will verify what I said.

I may owe you an apology Novacek! Or perhaps not. One way or the other, it will be sorted out easily enough, and we'll make sure that 2009 knows going in what the situation is.

I may owe you an apology Novacek! Or perhaps not. One way or the other, it will be sorted out easily enough, and we'll make sure that 2009 knows going in what the situation is.

I will accept that apology any time now.

According to the student handbook:

Class Rank

Student class ranks are computed after each completed quarter except during fieldwork and clinical rotations. Class rank is not included on the official college transcript. A student who wishes to have his/her class rank included in an official document must make a written request to the Registrar. Class rank may not be available for all programs.

http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/administrative/SS/ssSH_policy.htm#28

If you have trouble going to this link. Go to online.midwestern.edu. Go to Student Services and look up the handbook. It's listed there.

Now I am not saying that "I" know anything about this topis...this is just a bit from a recent grad of AZCOM.

I was told by a then fourth year who matched at a competitive residency that his/her class rank went from top 50 to top 20 after the end of third year just b/c of the exams and such. This was this person's way of beating into me the need not to slack on the MSIII exams.

Interesting, because my class was one of the two that had H/P/F grading, and our class ranks were set after year two.

Believe me, I wish that weren't the case....I was a much better student years 3 and 4. But, as has been mentioned before, they really can't adjust rankings for you on a P/F basis--basically everyone gets the same grade (except, obviously, for the very few people who fail).

And the MS III exams are an effin' joke. They know this, too. They use the same exam for each rotation over and over and over. This way, the people who take, say Surgery (which was the toughest exam) early on all barely pass. But, by the end of the year (when all of the questions have circulated), people are scoring high 80's and 90's.

There was some speech about "recognizing" the top performing clinical students in the dean's letter, however, your numerical class rank is final after year two.

Interesting, because my class was one of the two that had H/P/F grading, and our class ranks were set after year two.

Believe me, I wish that weren't the case....I was a much better student years 3 and 4. But, as has been mentioned before, they really can't adjust rankings for you on a P/F basis--basically everyone gets the same grade (except, obviously, for the very few people who fail).

And the MS III exams are an effin' joke. They know this, too. They use the same exam for each rotation over and over and over. This way, the people who take, say Surgery (which was the toughest exam) early on all barely pass. But, by the end of the year (when all of the questions have circulated), people are scoring high 80's and 90's.

There was some speech about "recognizing" the top performing clinical students in the dean's letter, however, your numerical class rank is final after year two.

Thanks for the informative reply Boomer! I'd be interested in exactly what the recognizance in the Deans' letter involves, but will figure out the details and post what I find.

I hope you learned something Luke. Sometimes it pays to listen to senior students who have been there. I'm glad you are enthusiastic about AZCOM but you have to be careful about conveying what you believe versus the facts. Many students are basing their decision on what people like you say.

Interesting, because my class was one of the two that had H/P/F grading, and our class ranks were set after year two.

Believe me, I wish that weren't the case....I was a much better student years 3 and 4. But, as has been mentioned before, they really can't adjust rankings for you on a P/F basis--basically everyone gets the same grade (except, obviously, for the very few people who fail).

And the MS III exams are an effin' joke. They know this, too. They use the same exam for each rotation over and over and over. This way, the people who take, say Surgery (which was the toughest exam) early on all barely pass. But, by the end of the year (when all of the questions have circulated), people are scoring high 80's and 90's.

There was some speech about "recognizing" the top performing clinical students in the dean's letter, however, your numerical class rank is final after year two.

I was waiting for you to show up. All these second years were doubting me.

It is an effin joke and many people in your class complained because people were passing the questions along so that those taking it later on were getting 80's on that exam. The administration could have fixed the problem if they wrote a new shelf each month but that would require too much effort and they figure it was better to abandon the idea of Honoring altogether.

Student class ranks are computed after each completed quarter except during fieldwork and clinical rotations. Class rank is not included on the official college transcript. A student who wishes to have his/her class rank included in an official document must make a written request to the Registrar. Class rank may not be available for all programs.

Novacek, I think you mentioned earlier that our class rank is calculated only after the first two years but according to the student handbook it looks like the rank is calculated after every quarter for the first two years. Is this a new policy or am I just missing something? Is it calculated but you just don't get to see it?

Thanks,
hyla

We'll look forward to seeing you in Glendale this August! By the way, where in CO are you from?
I'm from Greeley, CO. I attended the University of Nothern Colorado there.

Thanks for the informative reply Boomer! I'd be interested in exactly what the recognizance in the Deans' letter involves, but will figure out the details and post what I find.

Keep in mind that our class HAD honors available as a grade. How they figured honors was absolutely absurd. Depended very little on your evaluation--I had two attendings call me "the best student from AZCOM" they had ever seen, but didn't earn honors in either rotation. In contrast, I remember a rotation with an attending who gave EVERYBODY 5's across the board, making no comments, and I did well on the exam--Honors for Boomer there....Depended heavily on your post-rotation exam score--again, advantage taking it later in the year. It was really pointless.

Basically, they told us that a person could improve their overall package by performing well in 3rd and 4th year, but it would only be noted in the dean's letter--not reflected in rank.

The "Professionalism" score, somehow takes into account performance on SPE, the professionalism score on your evals, I think attendance at 3rd year lectures (and not being caught signing out early, etc....), if you ever got in trouble with the Dean....Don't ask me about specifics--I have entirely too much common sense to comprehend it.

Novacek, I think you mentioned earlier that our class rank is calculated only after the first two years but according to the student handbook it looks like the rank is calculated after every quarter for the first two years. Is this a new policy or am I just missing something? Is it calculated but you just don't get to see it?

Thanks,
hyla

It's just stating the obvious. We are on a quarter system so obviously your overall percentage from each quarter(your percentile in each class) will be accounted into your class rank. I never said your class rank wasn't calculated during your first two years; it's just not released until after your second year. If you recall, I said they intentionally don't release your class rank in the first two years to avoid unnecessary competition among students. I might not have said it on this thread but I said it in the COMP vs. AZCOM thread below. Sorry for the confusion

Here is some more information: Your class rank is based on your overall percentage. You are not given grades; you are given percentages. There are no grade point averages. If you get an 88% in Anatomy, that is an 88%, it's not a B+, 3.5 or a High pass. On your transcript, it will show "Anatomy -88) Therefore if someone has a cumulative percentage of a 100% at the end of second year, that person would be ranked first in the class or share the first ranking with anyone else who has a 100% which is usually 2 or 3 people at the end of first year. By the end of second year, the percentrages drop a bit due to micro and path.. What you will find out is the top 10 percent in the class are people with overall percentages of 95% or higher. I don't know how they do it but there are some really bright people at AZCOM. At the end of your first year, there will be people with close to 100% overall. Students can't figure out their rank but they can determine their overall percentage. And from that, they can get an idea of where they stand in the class but not it isn't officially released until after your second year.

Stop with the cheerleading routine already......Yes, it's true that at a teaching hospital, you will compete with fellow med students, residents, externs, fellows, np's, attendings and pa's but guess what that is what your residency will be like. Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of doing your residency in some preceptor's office when he will serve you milk and cookies and let you go home at 4 PM. The hands on nature of the preceptorship is nice but residency is more than hands-on procedures. The hospital has a language of its own. There is something to be said for being pimped on the spot among your fellow med students that you won't get in a preceptorship. You will have to learn how to survive in a hospital setting and you won't be prepared for that unless you do rotations in a hospital based setting. I matched into a very prestigious IM program and I did two months of IM at a teaching hospital and I'm glad I did it because when I did my IM electives in Phoenix, I was ahead of every student I was with.

And no student should feel entitled to attend AZCOM. It's not as if AZCOM isn't charging you tuiting (a lot of tuition I might add). Providing rotations in local hospitals...IS THEIR JOB. That is what you are paying tuition for. It's not a priviledge for them to provide you with opportunities to rotate locally. If AZCOM is going to charge you 40 per year for tuition, the least they could is work with the University of Arizona to work out some payment plan so that our students can rotate locally in hospitals they are affiliated with.

If you were admitted to another medical school, I would encourage you to do your research and examine their third and fourth year curriculum when compared to AZCOM. The first two years at AZCOM are nice but then after that, the organization is very loose.

Cole did state that they are starting a budget to start paying rotation sites next year. Now, I'm not a cheerleader for AZCOM, but I was there and this IS what was said.

On the other hand, your comments on how you are a senior and hence you know best, whatever... you sure did look like a jerk pulling your seniority bulls@!t. I don't care if you are two years ahead of me or whatever, it doesn't give you the right to disrespect me nor anyone else who have engaged in this draining conversation. All who post are entitled to their opinions, as you are to yours. You can be as cynical as you wish, but as far as I am concerned, I am finished with this conversation.

anyone know if the DO shelf exams are the same as the ones given on MD rotations?


I was waiting for you to show up. All these second years were doubting me.

It is an effin joke and many people in your class complained because people were passing the questions along so that those taking it later on were getting 80's on that exam. The administration could have fixed the problem if they wrote a new shelf each month but that would require too much effort and they figure it was better to abandon the idea of Honoring altogether.

I'm from Greeley, CO. I attended the University of Nothern Colorado there.

Tonloc08,

What year did you graduate from UNC? I've heard Greeley is a nice town and is much cheaper to live in than Boulder. When do you plan to move down to AZ?

-Matt

Cole did state that they are starting a budget to start paying rotation sites next year. Now, I'm not a cheerleader for AZCOM, but I was there and this IS what was said.

That's not what you said. This is what you wrote: "Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st."

This is the type of misleading propaganda that you are spreading to recruit students to AZCOM. If you would clarified your stance and specified that this is what you heard in a meeting as opposed to it being fact, students like myself wouldn't call you on your vague information.

On the other hand, your comments on how you are a senior and hence you know best, whatever... you sure did look like a jerk pulling your seniority bulls@!t. I don't care if you are two years ahead of me or whatever, it doesn't give you the right to disrespect me nor anyone else who have engaged in this draining conversation. All who post are entitled to their opinions, as you are to yours. You can be as cynical as you wish, but as far as I am concerned, I am finished with this conversation.


And it also makes you look like a jerk when you choose to pass your opinion on as fact This isn't about opinion; this is about facts. Luke was arguing with me about something any 3rd or 4th year student could verify in relation to class rank being set after MS II. That was a fact and not an opinon yet Luke was arguing as if i was merely stating my opinion.

Stop with the cheerleading routine already......Yes, it's true that at a teaching hospital, you will compete with fellow med students, residents, externs, fellows, np's, attendings and pa's but guess what that is what your residency will be like. Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of doing your residency in some preceptor's office when he will serve you milk and cookies and let you go home at 4 PM. The hands on nature of the preceptorship is nice but residency is more than hands-on procedures. The hospital has a language of its own. There is something to be said for being pimped on the spot among your fellow med students that you won't get in a preceptorship. You will have to learn how to survive in a hospital setting and you won't be prepared for that unless you do rotations in a hospital based setting. I matched into a very prestigious IM program and I did two months of IM at a teaching hospital and I'm glad I did it because when I did my IM electives in Phoenix, I was ahead of every student I was with.

And no student should feel entitled to attend AZCOM. It's not as if AZCOM isn't charging you tuiting (a lot of tuition I might add). Providing rotations in local hospitals...IS THEIR JOB. That is what you are paying tuition for. It's not a priviledge for them to provide you with opportunities to rotate locally. If AZCOM is going to charge you 40 per year for tuition, the least they could is work with the University of Arizona to work out some payment plan so that our students can rotate locally in hospitals they are affiliated with.

If you were admitted to another medical school, I would encourage you to do your research and examine their third and fourth year curriculum when compared to AZCOM. The first two years at AZCOM are nice but then after that, the organization is very loose.


Just a thought to consider: What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. If you need your education totally planned out at spoon fed to you, then maybe this is not the school for you. AZCOM is about innovation, change, and trying out new things.

On the up side, we are a nationally ranked medical school... which is way more than I can say for U of A. U of A is a good school, I'm sure. However, they can not say they produce the best of the best on a regular basis. AZCOM does. And, we do it without, so far, paying for hospital based rotations. Our best students are those who are motivated to succeed, and are actually into medicine for what it is, a service to humanity. Those who are out there to be the best medical student ever, are not necessarily the best doctors. Your education is what you make of it... no matter what school you go to.

Also, what DFrancyk said is true. The dean did say that AZCOM will be paying for rotations, and that the state of Arizona will be declining funding to state funded hospitals if they do not allow osteopathic students to rotate there. Look, there is a huge shortage of doctors in Arizona. The legislature is doing everything they can to insure that all doctors educated in AZ stay in AZ as long as possible.

Finally, to all the AZCOM 09 students: YAY!! I'm so happy for you that you are happy to come to our school. You will be challenged almost daily, you will meet people who may be your life long friends, and you will have an amazing education when you are finished. We are the top scoring school on the COMLEX, we don't do too bad on the USMLE either. Our students have residencies at Stanford, Mayo, and Johns Hopkins. If you want it, they sky is the limit. Do not listen to anyone when it comes to which med school is "the best"... they are all different, and that's a good thing... people are different too. Its all about finding the school that is the best fit for you.

Oh, one more thing... if you are coming to a D.O. school because you didn't get accepted into an M.D. program, you may want to reconsider. We don't need anyone here who does not believe in a whole body approach to medicine, with patient care and consideration top priority. Also, OMM has proven a worth while technique over and over again before my very eyes. I hope that all the new students will give this skill a chance before blowing it off and becoming an Oreo-path. :) Good luck to all... especially those with negativity in their hearts ( you will certainly need it.) .

That's not what you said. This is what you wrote: "Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st."

This is the type of misleading propaganda that you are spreading to recruit students to AZCOM. If you would clarified your stance and specified that this is what you heard in a meeting as opposed to it being fact, students like myself wouldn't call you on your vague information.




And it also makes you look like a jerk when you choose to pass your opinion on as fact This isn't about opinion; this is about facts. Luke was arguing with me about something any 3rd or 4th year student could verify in relation to class rank being set after MS II. That was a fact and not an opinon yet Luke was arguing as if i was merely stating my opinion.


I am really not sure who you are, but I'm sure that not every student in the third and fourth year classes would agree with all you have said about rotations. As for the class rank argument I really have no idea... I have heard that 3rd and 4th year does count, and also that it does not. But I really just have to say WHO CARES!!! Just be a good student, and make yourself into a good doctor... I don't plan on ranking super high, but I do plan on knowing my stuff when I get out there and kicking ass and taking names when it comes to patient care.

Oh, and your negativity about our school really really sucks. Which in turn tells me that... well, you suck... which means that god help your patients, because I wouldn't want a doc working me up who is as negative as you. Sorry man. Hope you can work it all out.

Just a thought to consider: What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. If you need your education totally planned out at spoon fed to you, then maybe this is not the school for you. AZCOM is about innovation, change, and trying out new things.

On the up side, we are a nationally ranked medical school... which is way more than I can say for U of A. U of A is a good school, I'm sure. However, they can not say they produce the best of the best on a regular basis. AZCOM does. And, we do it without, so far, paying for hospital based rotations. Our best students are those who are motivated to succeed, and are actually into medicine for what it is, a service to humanity. Those who are out there to be the best medical student ever, are not necessarily the best doctors. Your education is what you make of it... no matter what school you go to.

Also, what DFrancyk said is true. The dean did say that AZCOM will be paying for rotations, and that the state of Arizona will be declining funding to state funded hospitals if they do not allow osteopathic students to rotate there. Look, there is a huge shortage of doctors in Arizona. The legislature is doing everything they can to insure that all doctors educated in AZ stay in AZ as long as possible.

Finally, to all the AZCOM 09 students: YAY!! I'm so happy for you that you are happy to come to our school. You will be challenged almost daily, you will meet people who may be your life long friends, and you will have an amazing education when you are finished. We are the top scoring school on the COMLEX, we don't do too bad on the USMLE either. Our students have residencies at Stanford, Mayo, and Johns Hopkins. If you want it, they sky is the limit. Do not listen to anyone when it comes to which med school is "the best"... they are all different, and that's a good thing... people are different too. Its all about finding the school that is the best fit for you.

Oh, one more thing... if you are coming to a D.O. school because you didn't get accepted into an M.D. program, you may want to reconsider. We don't need anyone here who does not believe in a whole body approach to medicine, with patient care and consideration top priority. Also, OMM has proven a worth while technique over and over again before my very eyes. I hope that all the new students will give this skill a chance before blowing it off and becoming an Oreo-path. :) Good luck to all... especially those with negativity in their hearts ( you will certainly need it.) .


You are preaching to the choir. I'm an AZCOM student who is graduating in a month. I'm not comparing us to U of A. I'm comparing us to other DO schools. You can spin our failure to provide local rotation priviledges as innovative when in fact it is a limitation. If a student wants to rotate in a preceptor based model, that is fine but then AZCOM should have opportunities for those who wanted to stay local. That my friend, is not innovation but a limitation. If you attend AZCOM then you are aware that many of our students are married and have families. Unfortunately not everyone can afford to just leave their families for 6 months out of the year because we couldn't rotate here locally during our third year. This is not innovative; this is not offerring our students a choice. The last I checked AZCOM is not offering students a tuition discount for failing to provide these local opportunities. Where is that money going?

Also, you are stereotyping U of A students and AZCOM students. If you think all AZCOM students are going into medicine to serve humanity simply because they are DO students, then you are highly misguided. Likewise, it's not fair to depict all U of A students as self serving because they are M.D. 's And what do you qualify as us producing the "best of the best." That is a very subjective and vague statement. Why are you even comparing us to the University of Arizona? That is not even the issue. Both schools are excellent schools.

Don't try to change the subject. I'm glad AZCOM is finally making some effort to acquire hospital priviledges so our students can rotate locally. Thus far, it doesn't exist and it has not for years. That has nothing to do with AZCOM versus U of A and everything to do with AZCOM prioritizing and doing more to serve its students which it has failed to do in regards to offering opportunities to rotate locally.

That's not what you said. This is what you wrote: "Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st."

This is the type of misleading propaganda that you are spreading to recruit students to AZCOM. If you would clarified your stance and specified that this is what you heard in a meeting as opposed to it being fact, students like myself wouldn't call you on your vague information.




And it also makes you look like a jerk when you choose to pass your opinion on as fact This isn't about opinion; this is about facts. Luke was arguing with me about something any 3rd or 4th year student could verify in relation to class rank being set after MS II. That was a fact and not an opinon yet Luke was arguing as if i was merely stating my opinion.

Both statements are true. Arizona has assured Cole that they will stop funding AND Cole stated that they will start paying rotation sites next year. I have NOT posted misleading propaganda. Misleading propaganda would be when YOU state your experience with this school as fact. My experience has not been one hundred percent positive either, but its my OWN FAULT. Life is what you make of it, medical school is too.

I am really not sure who you are, but I'm sure that not every student in the third and fourth year classes would agree with all you have said about rotations. As for the class rank argument I really have no idea... I have heard that 3rd and 4th year does count, and also that it does not. But I really just have to say WHO CARES!!! Just be a good student, and make yourself into a good doctor... I don't plan on ranking super high, but I do plan on knowing my stuff when I get out there and kicking ass and taking names when it comes to patient care.

Oh, and your negativity about our school really really sucks. Which in turn tells me that... well, you suck... which means that god help your patients, because I wouldn't want a doc working me up who is as negative as you. Sorry man. Hope you can work it all out.

Oh "I suck" Okay that shows where you mentality lies. It sounds like you are yet another misinformed second year student who is waving her poms poms. Hooray for you but leave the facts and spread of accurate information to those of us who have graduated or are about to graduate. However, feel free to continue to be the fluffer that you are.

Both statements are true. Arizona has assured Cole that they will stop funding AND Cole stated that they will start paying rotation sites next year. I have NOT posted misleading propaganda. Misleading propaganda would be when YOU state your experience with this school as fact. My experience has not been one hundred percent positive either, but its my OWN FAULT. Life is what you make of it, medical school is too.

You have no idea if Arizona assured Dean Cole of that. You are just reporting what Dean Cole told you. So you need to state that instead of stating that it's a fact that by July 1st our students will have the right to rotate locally during third year. Next time, let everyone know that you are basing your information on what Dean cole told you instead of stating something as a fact. Thust far it isn't a fact. You are only passing on what the Dean has told you. And I'm sorry but heresay is not a fact. Until I see it in writing with a definitive date, then it's a fact. Until then, it's a lot of encouraging news and nothing more.

Oh "I suck" Okay that shows where you mentality lies. It sounds like you are yet another misinformed second year student who is waving her poms poms. Hooray for you but leave the facts and spread of accurate information to those of us who have graduated or are about to graduate. However, feel free to continue to be the fluffer that you are.


Hehehehe, you are totally entertaining. :D Call me a fluffer all you want, but I'm a happy fluffer, I'm a good student, and I'm going to make a damn good doctor. ... So, if I'm a fluffer... what does that make you? Smasher? Flattener of hopes and dreams? I know where my mentality lies, do you? Just because you have been there does not mean you know the facts either... you could be just as misinformed as you think I am. Your reasoning has holes. Good thing you are not going to be a lawyer... although... this might have been a better choice for you. Hehe, sorry, I kill me!

:D You have no idea if Arizona assured Dean Cole of that. You are just reporting what Dean Cole told you. So you need to state that instead of stating that it's a fact that by July 1st our students will have the right to rotate locally during third year. Next time, let everyone know that you are basing your information on what Dean cole told you instead of stating something as a fact. Thust far it isn't a fact. You are only passing on what the Dean has told you. And I'm sorry but heresay is not a fact. Until I see it in writing with a definitive date, then it's a fact. Until then, it's a lot of encouraging news and nothing more.


Its funny how you call Dean Cole a damn liar without so many words. I happen to have a huge amount of respect for this man who has achieved so much in his life. I would call you a damn liar before him you piddly little med student. What the hell have you ever done that would make me believe in what you say? Fool. YER KILLIN ME! :D

Hehehehe, you are totally entertaining. :D Atleast you admit that Dean Cole isn't a liar, and that what he said at the dean's meeting was true. Call me a fluffer all you want, but I'm a happy fluffer, I'm a good student, and I'm going to make a damn good doctor. ... So, if I'm a fluffer... what does that make you? Smasher? Flattener of hopes and dreams? I know where my mentality lies, do you? Just because you have been there does not mean you know the facts either... you could be just as misinformed as you think I am. Your reasoning has holes. Good thing you are not going to be a lawyer... although... this might have been a better choice for you. Hehe, sorry, I kill me!

It makes me a senior who is about to graduate and can offer accurate advice that is based on experience as opposed to some fluffy propaganda.

Your attitude doesn't bother but your facts do. The problem I have with students like you, Luke and DFran is that you have an agenda for whatever reason and you continue to offer loose information and your opinon as fact. I have never seen students so inclined to spin the truth as you three have. I don't know what your motive is but my interest is offering information that I was not presented with when I chose to attend AZCOM.

When students like Boomer and myself offer advice based on our experience, you shoot us down as if we don't know what we are talking about.

Thus far, you have already been proven wrong on the class rank issue. And if it wasn't for me, DFran would continue to state that as of July 1st, our third years can rotate locally. When in fact, that was nothing more than the Dean's words being passed on. It's hasn't been formally implemented or written down anywhere.

If someone wants to argue facts with me, I'm game but I'm not going to resort to petty name calling by individuals such as yourself.

:D


Its funny how you call Dean Cole a damn liar without so many words. I happen to have a huge amount of respect for this man who has achieved so much in his life. I would call you a damn liar before him you piddly little med student. What the hell have you ever done that would make me believe in what you say? Fool. YER KILLIN ME! :D

My issue is not with Dean Cole. My issue is with the second year student who hears something in a meeting and decides to pass it on as fact on an anonymous messageboard. I'm not calling Dean Cole a liar. Arizona may have promised him that but you can't rely on the state of AZ to honor any set date like July 1st unless it's in writing or has been well publicized which it hasn't. Furthermore, we were not there so we have no idea what the state explicityly told Dean Cole. I don't think Deal Cole is lying but I'm not certain Dean Cole would comfortable telling students that we will for certain have rotating priviledges as of July 1st. That just sounds like an eager second year willing to pass loose information as fact on an anonymous messageboard. That's called being careless.

It makes me a senior who is about to graduate and can offer accurate advice that is based on experience as opposed to some fluffy propaganda.

Your attitude doesn't bother but your facts do. The problem I have with students like you, Luke and DFran is that you have an agenda for whatever reason and you continue to offer loose information and your opinon as fact.

When students like Boomer and myself offer advice based on our experience, you shoot us down as if we don't know what we are talking about.

Thus far, you have already been proven wrong on the class rank issue. And if it wasn't for me, DFran would continue to state that as of July 1st, our third years can rotate locally. When in fact, that was nothing more than the Dean's words being passed on. It's hasn't been formally implemented or written down anywhere.

If someone wants to argue facts with me, I'm game but I'm not going to resort to petty name calling by individuals such as yourself.

When exactly have I been proven wrong on the class rank issue? Not until the deans office announces this to me will I be proven wrong. I'm sorry that you had such a crappy experience your 3rd and 4th years, but you really should not offer advice such as "reconsidering" to our new students. We should be offering positivity, confidence, and good will for our new students. Ofcourse our school has bugs to work out, but the truth of the matter is, that this "limitation" is not as much of a limitation as you believe it is. I do have a family, and baby, and I can't leave out of state. I am not afraid of doing my rotations here, hospital based or otherwise. I know that when it comes down to it, my board scores and my willingness to work hard, with a good attitude are what will get my a great residency. So step off with your bad attitude and "facts." And who started the name calling?? Fluffer I believe.

My issue is not with Dean Cole. My issue is with the second year student who hears something in a meeting and decides to pass it on as fact on an anonymous messageboard. I'm not calling Dean Cole a liar. Arizona may have promised him that but you can't rely on the state of AZ to honor any set date like July 1st unless it's in writing or has been well publicized which it hasn't. Furthermore, we were not there so we have no idea what the state explicityly told Dean Cole. I don't think Deal Cole is lying but I'm not certain Dean Cole would comfortable telling students that we will for certain have rotating priviledges as of July 1st. That just sounds like an eager second year willing to pass loose information as fact on an anonymous messageboard. That's called being careless.


Actually, Dean Cole did say July 1st. I concur that he would not be comfortable stating this if it were not true. What I call careless is responding to the post about this information without calling the dean's office and inquiring before shooting it down in front of the incoming freshman. All we need to do is to undermine their confidence in our dean. Wouldn't you agree?

When exactly have I been proven wrong on the class rank issue? Not until the deans office announces this to me will I be proven wrong. I'm sorry that you had such a crappy experience your 3rd and 4th years, but you really should not offer advice such as "reconsidering" to our new students. We should be offering positivity, confidence, and good will for our new students. Ofcourse our school has bugs to work out, but the truth of the matter is, that this "limitation" is not as much of a limitation as you believe it is. I do have a family, and baby, and I can't leave out of state. I am not afraid of doing my rotations here, hospital based or otherwise. I know that when it comes down to it, my board scores and my willingness to work hard, with a good attitude are what will get my a great residency. So step off with your bad attitude and "facts." And who started the name calling?? Fluffer I believe.

No, that is not our job. Our job is not to sell our school. Our position is to provide the facts so students can make an informed decision. And if we provide our opinion, we should state that. And I have already provided a URL to the student handbook that outlines what determined our class rank. if you are going to argue with that then you will just continue to look foolish. You don't get it; you already lost that argument. Give it up. I'm about to graduate, I think I would know what constitutes our class rank. Are you kidding me? Some people like yourself simply can't admit when they are wrong. No, the name calling started with "you suck"

Actually, Dean Cole did say July 1st. I concur that he would not be comfortable stating this if it were not true. What I call careless is responding to the post about this information without calling the dean's office and inquiring before shooting it down in front of the incoming freshman. All we need to do is to undermine their confidence in our dean. Wouldn't you agree?

How would I even know to call the Dean's office because until now, Dfran didn't inform us that he recieved his information from a meeting he held with the Dean.

Instead, he just wrote that as of July 1st, AZCOM would be allowed to rotate locally. That is called being careless. He didn't even let us know where he got his information. There is a reason he didn't state that he heard this information in a meeting because it would undermine his point.

It's not my position to guess his sources. If he is going to make a blanket statement, he needs to provide a URL or some source as to where he got his information.

No, that is not our job. Our job is not to sell our school. Our position is to provide the facts so students can make an informed decision. And if we provide our opinion, we should state that. And I have already provided a URL to the student handbook that outlines what determined our class rank. if you are going to argue with that then you will just continue to look foolish. You don't get it; you already lost that argument. Give it up. I'm about to graduate, I think I would know what constitutes our class rank. Are you kidding me? Some people like yourself simply can't admit when they are wrong.


Ok, so what you are telling me is that you think that our school is so up to date that it re-writes the hand book every time it changes a policy? Haven't you learned not to believe everything you read on the internet yet? I mean, please... isn't it possible that they have changed this policy and have yet to review the hand book? Also, what is true for your class is not necessarily true for my class. The rules change almost every year. This is what is cool about a newer school... it changes as it works out the bugs. I'm sorry you think you are so right, and maybe you are... but i'm not going to take YOUR word for it... I'll just simply call the dean's office tomorrow and inquire. Thank you for your "opinions" and "facts". Oh, and our "Jobs" are not to sell our school, true, but who made it our job to provide these so called "facts" and a ton of almost purely negative "opinions" to our newest students? Why can't we just be incouraging? Why can't we just tell them how it was for us without telling them to reconsider? I know you think its your job to save others from your bad experience, but really, its not. Who asked you? I certainly didn't, and anyone who did is probably seriously misguided. Things are so different for every student and every class that asking advice from "older" "wiser" students is totally worthless. Things are changing for the better all the time at our school, so why worry all of our new students? I mean, this thread is in the AZCOM 2009 section right? So, these people reading this are already students. So, I guess, being older brothers and sisters, we should be helpful, right? Not pessimistic... which is no help once you've paid your deposit, right? :confused:

How would I even know to call the Dean's office because until now, Dfran didn't inform us that he recieved his information from a meeting he held with the Dean.

Instead, he just wrote that as of July 1st, AZCOM would be allowed to rotate locally. That is called being careless. He didn't even let us know where he got his information. There is a reason he didn't state that he heard this information in a meeting because it would undermine his point.

It's not my position to guess his sources. If he is going to make a blanket statement, he needs to provide a URL or some source as to where he got his information.

I was asked right after I posted if this is what was stated at the Dean's meeting and I replied "Yup." What hidden agenda do you think I have? This is so ridiculous... Look you are splitting hairs to try and defend yourself? Is your ego so fragile? Seriously, let it go... move on... And all you new incoming students who are reading this ridiculous conversation, just do as Iris said and call the Dean's Office and find out for yourself.

I regret ever getting involved in this conversation.... UGH :barf:

Ok, so what you are telling me is that you think that our school is so up to date that it re-writes the hand book every time it changes a policy? Haven't you learned not to believe everything you read on the internet yet? I mean, please... isn't it possible that they have changed this policy and have yet to review the hand book? Also, what is true for your class is not necessarily true for my class. The rules change almost every year. This is what is cool about a newer school... it changes as it works out the bugs. I'm sorry you think you are so right, and maybe you are... but i'm not going to take YOUR word for it... I'll just simply call the dean's office tomorrow and inquire. Thank you for your "opinions" and "facts". Oh, and our "Jobs" are not to sell our school, true, but who made it our job to provide these so called "facts" and a ton of almost purely negative "opinions" to our newest students? Why can't we just be incouraging? Why can't we just tell them how it was for us without telling them to reconsider? I know you think its your job to save others from your bad experience, but really, its not. Who asked you? I certainly didn't, and anyone who did is probably seriously misguided. Things are so different for every student and every class that asking advice from "older" "wiser" students is totally worthless. Things are changing for the better all the time at our school, so why worry all of our new students? I mean, this thread is in the AZCOM 2009 section right? So, these people reading this are already students. So, I guess, being older brothers and sisters, we should be helpful, right? Not pessimistic... which is no help once you've paid your deposit, right? :confused:


Okay so the handbook is now wrong? I quoted the current handbook that is on-line. So they changed our entire clinical curriculum beginning with your class? That is called reaching for straws and I think you know this. You must be one of those types that enjoys arguing for the sake of argument.

You can provide your positive opinions as long as you don't try to pass them on as facts which is what some of you have done. I have provided some negative opinions but I have never misrepresented the facts/

I don't have a problem with someone saying: "I was in a meeting with the Dean. And he stated that as of July 1st 2005, AZCOM students would have the right to rotate in Phoenix during third year rotations. This is what was passed on to me by the Dean."

That is a lot different than telling some eager first years "Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st."

I was asked right after I posted if this is what was stated at the Dean's meeting and I replied "Yup." What hidden agenda do you think I have? This is so ridiculous... Look you are splitting hairs to try and defend yourself? Is your ego so fragile? Seriously, let it go... move on... And all you new incoming students who are reading this ridiculous conversation, just do as Iris said and call the Dean's Office and find out for yourself.

I regret ever getting involved in this conversation.... UGH :barf:

Why didn't you post that the first time you wrote it? Is it really that difficult to provide sources to verify your statement. Anyone who reads this can tell that you obviously were trying to make your case sound stronger than it was which is why you conveniently failed to mention you heard that in a Dean's meeting. It wasn't policy and none of my classmates nor the third years I'm close with is even heard of anything close to this. And I would be interested to know what the Dean precisely told you.

And as far as I'm concerned, that is far from being a fact. Until it's implemented, I will have a difficult time believing that.

And you were not supposed to respond remember so if you are beyond this conversation please don't respond to this and be on your way.

Novacek, obviously you're pretty upset about the rotations at azcom. Just out of curiosity, are you are expressing a general dissatisfaction regarding the rotations or do you feel it actually hurt you as a candidate and if so in the end did you still get what you wanted?

This has been pretty interesting to read. As an incoming student, I think it's important to see both sides of the story. I just can't believe how heated the discussion has become. My goal is to come to AZCOM with an open mind and try to get the best medical education possible. If that means putting a lot of work and planning in on my end then fine. I'm not the type who feels the need to be "spoon fed" everything anyway. As first year students, do we get a second year "buddy" as I've heard many other med schools arrange? And during the first year will there be many opportunities to talk with 3rd and 4th year's? Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. :thumbup:

This has been pretty interesting to read. As an incoming student, I think it's important to see both sides of the story. I just can't believe how heated the discussion has become. My goal is to come to AZCOM with an open mind and try to get the best medical education possible. If that means putting a lot of work and planning in on my end then fine. I'm not the type who feels the need to be "spoon fed" everything anyway. As first year students, do we get a second year "buddy" as I've heard many other med schools arrange? And during the first year will there be many opportunities to talk with 3rd and 4th year's? Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. :thumbup:

Inquiringmind24, my "big brother" just emailed me today for the first time, so hopefully you'll hear from yours soon.

Novacek, obviously you're pretty upset about the rotations at azcom. Just out of curiosity, are you are expressing a general dissatisfaction regarding the rotations or do you feel it actually hurt you as a candidate and if so in the end did you still get what you wanted?

I got what I wanted but third year was a royal pain in the arse. Yes, you can achieve your goals at AZCOM but beware that third year will suck. I spend a lot of money during third year and did almost all the paperwork myself. The "spoonfeeding" diatribe is a rather weak response. You guys are going to pay 45K during third year; the least they could do is their job. You are paying for this. This is not something extra that I'm asking for. But yes, I achieved my goals. Did I have to do more work than most of my colleagues at others schools? Absolutely! I didn't match at my first choice and I think our clinical setup had a lot to do with that because it was really difficult setting yourself apart during clinicals with the way our program is established.

I sound like the minority opinion here but I would say most of my class agrees with me. They are not on SDN for whatever reason. Most of the people on SDN giving advice about AZCOM are first and second year students. It's rare that you will have 4th years lend their time. It just bothers me when students try to spin our limitations during third year as some type of advantage. It's not an advantage because most students like myself had notchoice but to relocate for third year. When you start next year, I would ask that you speak directly with third and fourth year students instead of the Raw Raw group on SDN.

For all the upperclassmen on this thread: would you guys keep us here on the 09 thread posted with any new rotation info? -especially if you can send us a url that has something definitive... Thanks

I got what I wanted but third year was a royal pain in the arse. Yes, you can achieve your goals at AZCOM but beware that third year will suck. I spend a lot of money during third year and did almost all the paperwork myself. The "spoonfeeding" diatribe is a rather weak response. You guys are going to pay 45K during third year; the least they could do is their job. You are paying for this. This is not something extra that I'm asking for. But yes, I achieved my goals. Did I have to do more work than most of my colleagues at others schools? Absolutely! I didn't match at my first choice and I think our clinical setup had a lot to do with that because it was really difficult setting yourself apart during clinicals with the way our program is established.

I sound like the minority opinion here but I would say most of my class agrees with me. They are not on SDN for whatever reason. Most of the people on SDN giving advice about AZCOM are first and second year students. It's rare that you will have 4th years lend their time. It just bothers me when students try to spin our limitations during third year as some type of advantage. It's not an advantage because most students like myself had notchoice but to relocate for third year. When you start next year, I would ask that you speak directly with third and fourth year students instead of the Raw Raw group on SDN.

Thanks for the response. So do you have any advice on how to maximize your potential for the best possible experience assuming that the rotation situation will be in two years similar to what it is now? (Of course, I'm hoping that it will change)

Thanks for the response. So do you have any advice on how to maximize your potential for the best possible experience assuming that the rotation situation will be in two years similar to what it is now? (Of course, I'm hoping that it will change)

Yes I do have some advice. Start the process early. By the end of first year, try to have an idea of what you want to specialize in and what city/state you want to do residency in. Then go to the FREIDA website

http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/srch/

Freida will list every specialty and every program/hospital that offers that residency. For example, if you want to internal medicine in Chicago, you go to the FREIDA site and look up IM programs in Illinois. It will list all the Chicago IM programs. Then you should call programs early and ask if they accept visiting students during core rotations such as internal medicine. Find out who the contact is there etc. Also, you can speak to 3rd and 4th year students about good programs.

It does depend on your field. If I aspired to do family practice and didn't particularly care about doing residency at a strong program, I may have just stuck with the preceptor model and did all my rotations in Phoenix. But I was sure i wanted to attend a reputable program which is why I had to my IM rotations out of state to get great LOR's.

Just to show my sincerity and that I'm not the only one with complaints regarding our clinical structure, here are 3 different accounts from 3 different former AZCOm graduates.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2319667#post2319667

Bikerboy

If you want to get all touchy-feely in making your decision like ..........(AZCOM's unoffical apologist) suggests, go ahead. I'm just laying down some truths that I wish I had understood before I enrolled in AZCOM. Would I have made the same choice to come here? Maybe. But I bought full into the whole preceptor based rotation pitch, only to find out it isnt all roses. The grass is always greener elsewhere, and MS's love to bitch about everything, but listen:

Over the last few months of interviewing for residencies here in Phoenix, one question I've gotten from almost every PD in town is a list of where I've rotated. The reason, one PD explained, is that for a student from a program with teaching hospital rotations, he knows that student had a fairly standard and predictable clinical experience. For AZCOM students, however, he asks for a list because he realizes that the quality of our preceptor rotations are all over the board, and he has no way of judging how well clinically trained we are from just our transcript. So he looks for a candidate that can run down a list of reputable clinical training experiences from major teaching hospitals, places where he knows what sort of clinical experience the typical student receives.

OK, that's it from me. I dont want to turn this into a "yada yada yada" session, but just wanted to relate my personal, opinionated, varnished, jaded, whatever, whatever experience. PM me if you have further questions.

I'm out.

This is another report from a recent graduate. He is doing anesthesiology in Chicago right now.

Ventdependent

If AZCOM had more teaching hospital based rotations 3rd year do you think I would have gone through all the trouble to rotate out? Rhetorical. I had other reasons for comming to the midwest (family issues) but I still felt compeled otherwise to rotate out.

Rural experiences are supposed to be great but not everyone gets those pics or wants to live in podunk arizona for months on end. Point is work hard 3rd year to land as much teaching hospital rotations you can and 4th year you can rotate at as many massive teaching institutions as you'd like. I don't know of any other DO school that lets you do so many out rotations.

4th year its a positive for landing letters and some really unique experience. 3rd year its a pain in the rear. Thats all she wrote.

Lo and behold, here is another thread from an AZCOM graduate who did his rotations here. His handle is IdahoDO There are not excepts from giddy second year students. These are graduates who had gone through the process and know what they are talking about.

IdahoDO

I may have a different take on this topic. I'm from Idaho and wanted to practice there (and most likely will.) With AZCOM, I was able to do the first 6 months of my 3rd year in Phoenix and my last six months and the rest of my 4th year away.

That allowed me to move my wife to Idaho. I must admit that it sucked during my 3rd year because in order to get any sort of experience clinically, I felt I needed at least 4 months in house. So, I had to move away from my wife for three months in a row to go to the midwest where we are not yet shut out of rotations. To make a long story short, I'll tell you that I've lived in Sacramento, Detroit, Toledo, Fresno, and Portland trying to get some good experience. I have only done 3 rotations total at osteopathic institutions so if that's important to you, don't go to AZCOM. I've also had to be away from my wife for 7 of the last 12 months so for that reason you may not want to go to AZCOM. However, I've also done rotations at OHSU, UCDavis, UCSFresno, and UW (Boise) and feel as though I am as clinically sound as any MD student I've come into contact with. For me, if I would have known what I do now, I still would have done it simply for the fact that my wife and I are able to live in the area we love (and hunt, ski, fish, etc..)

Hope that helps

For all the upperclassmen on this thread: would you guys keep us here on the 09 thread posted with any new rotation info? -especially if you can send us a url that has something definitive... Thanks

Hylacinerea,
I applaud your enthusiasm. I hope you get a big bro or sis next year who is also as enthusiastic so that you can get the info that you need. I also hope that you take everything that is said here with a grain of salt. By the time you get to rotations, things will be different. If you want to maximize your time in each rotation then go in with gusto, set yourself apart by going above and beyond. Our system does not hold you back in this way, atleast. You will certainly make an impression in a rotation, and set yourself apart if you are just an awesome person who knows his/her stuff. That said, I humbly offer this one piece of unsolisited advice... worry about getting through your first year, anatomy, biochem, physio, and having fun in some clubs... don't worry about rotations just yet. Don't put the cart before the horse. Cross that bridge when you come to it... and all that jazz. If you spend all your time, or extra time worrying... then you are wasting your time... worry is a waste. You can't do anything to truly plan your rotations as a first year anyway... just breathe. Please. Keep some sanity about you, and enjoy med school, it is such an amazing experience and we are lucky to be partaking. See you next year.
J

Hylacinerea,
I applaud your enthusiasm. I hope you get a big bro or sis next year who is also as enthusiastic so that you can get the info that you need. I also hope that you take everything that is said here with a grain of salt. By the time you get to rotations, things will be different. If you want to maximize your time in each rotation then go in with gusto, set yourself apart by going above and beyond. Our system does not hold you back in this way, atleast. You will certainly make an impression in a rotation, and set yourself apart if you are just an awesome person who knows his/her stuff. That said, I humbly offer this one piece of unsolisited advice... worry about getting through your first year, anatomy, biochem, physio, and having fun in some clubs... don't worry about rotations just yet. Don't put the cart before the horse. Cross that bridge when you come to it... and all that jazz. If you spend all your time, or extra time worrying... then you are wasting your time... worry is a waste. You can't do anything to truly plan your rotations as a first year anyway... just breathe. Please. Keep some sanity about you, and enjoy med school, it is such an amazing experience and we are lucky to be partaking. See you next year.
J


Likewise, I would encourage you to finish 3rd and 4th year before forming an opinion in regards to our clinical structure. And I would also take anything the AZCOM administration says with a grain of salt. Do you really think we were not told many of the same things you were told? Prior to starting rotations, i was told AZCOM was considering taking legal action against the U of A and that would cause more opportunities for us by the time we were third years. Don't rely on anything unless it's in stone. I used to be as naive as you were two years ago. It's like the X-Files, Trust No One!

Just to show my sincerity and that I'm not the only one with complaints regarding our clinical structure, here are 3 different accounts from 3 different former AZCOm graduates.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2319667#post2319667

Bikerboy

If you want to get all touchy-feely in making your decision like ..........(AZCOM's unoffical apologist) suggests, go ahead. I'm just laying down some truths that I wish I had understood before I enrolled in AZCOM. Would I have made the same choice to come here? Maybe. But I bought full into the whole preceptor based rotation pitch, only to find out it isnt all roses. The grass is always greener elsewhere, and MS's love to bitch about everything, but listen:

Over the last few months of interviewing for residencies here in Phoenix, one question I've gotten from almost every PD in town is a list of where I've rotated. The reason, one PD explained, is that for a student from a program with teaching hospital rotations, he knows that student had a fairly standard and predictable clinical experience. For AZCOM students, however, he asks for a list because he realizes that the quality of our preceptor rotations are all over the board, and he has no way of judging how well clinically trained we are from just our transcript. So he looks for a candidate that can run down a list of reputable clinical training experiences from major teaching hospitals, places where he knows what sort of clinical experience the typical student receives.

OK, that's it from me. I dont want to turn this into a "yada yada yada" session, but just wanted to relate my personal, opinionated, varnished, jaded, whatever, whatever experience. PM me if you have further questions.

I'm out.

This is another report from a recent graduate. He is doing anesthesiology in Chicago right now.

Ventdependent

If AZCOM had more teaching hospital based rotations 3rd year do you think I would have gone through all the trouble to rotate out? Rhetorical. I had other reasons for comming to the midwest (family issues) but I still felt compeled otherwise to rotate out.

Rural experiences are supposed to be great but not everyone gets those pics or wants to live in podunk arizona for months on end. Point is work hard 3rd year to land as much teaching hospital rotations you can and 4th year you can rotate at as many massive teaching institutions as you'd like. I don't know of any other DO school that lets you do so many out rotations.

4th year its a positive for landing letters and some really unique experience. 3rd year its a pain in the rear. Thats all she wrote.

Lo and behold, here is another thread from an AZCOM graduate who did his rotations here. His handle is IdahoDO There are not excepts from giddy second year students. These are graduates who had gone through the process and know what they are talking about.

IdahoDO

I may have a different take on this topic. I'm from Idaho and wanted to practice there (and most likely will.) With AZCOM, I was able to do the first 6 months of my 3rd year in Phoenix and my last six months and the rest of my 4th year away.

That allowed me to move my wife to Idaho. I must admit that it sucked during my 3rd year because in order to get any sort of experience clinically, I felt I needed at least 4 months in house. So, I had to move away from my wife for three months in a row to go to the midwest where we are not yet shut out of rotations. To make a long story short, I'll tell you that I've lived in Sacramento, Detroit, Toledo, Fresno, and Portland trying to get some good experience. I have only done 3 rotations total at osteopathic institutions so if that's important to you, don't go to AZCOM. I've also had to be away from my wife for 7 of the last 12 months so for that reason you may not want to go to AZCOM. However, I've also done rotations at OHSU, UCDavis, UCSFresno, and UW (Boise) and feel as though I am as clinically sound as any MD student I've come into contact with. For me, if I would have known what I do now, I still would have done it simply for the fact that my wife and I are able to live in the area we love (and hunt, ski, fish, etc..)

Hope that helps

Novacek88,
There is no doubt in my mind (and I'm sure in other's minds as well) that your clinical experience was sub-par. There are always complainers in the crowd. Why do you feel SO compelled to share with the frosh the downside of our system so early in their education, and knowing that this system could very well be changed by the time they get to this point? Just curious.

Novacek88,
There is no doubt in my mind (and I'm sure in other's minds as well) that your clinical experience was sub-par. There are always complainers in the crowd. Why do you feel SO compelled to share with the frosh the downside of our system so early in their education, and knowing that this system could very well be changed by the time they get to this point? Just curious.


Never mind, I see your above response. I'm sorry you did not get your first pick of residencies... however, I have no doubt there was a reason that God/the Universe, whatever you call it, put you where it did. I'm sure you will do great where ever you end up. I'm sure that the current first years and new ones will work hard to make sure that AZ holds up its end of the deal so that we can get rotations at hosptials for future classes. My husband is going into third year here and he has to spend two months away from me and our baby this summer... He's lucky, he can do that, I can't with a new baby... I don't however have to go on rotations until next year, so hopefully I will be able to stay in Phx for all my rotations. I have high hopes that this will become a reality. Anyway, congrats on graduation, and I wish you all the best.
J

Never mind, I see your above response. I'm sorry you did not get your first pick of residencies... however, I have no doubt there was a reason that God/the Universe, whatever you call it, put you where it did. I'm sure you will do great where ever you end up. I'm sure that the current first years and new ones will work hard to make sure that AZ holds up its end of the deal so that we can get rotations at hosptials for future classes. My husband is going into third year here and he has to spend two months away from me and our baby this summer... He's lucky, he can do that, I can't with a new baby... I don't however have to go on rotations until next year, so hopefully I will be able to stay in Phx for all my rotations. I have high hopes that this will become a reality. Anyway, congrats on graduation, and I wish you all the best.
J

Thank you for civil response and I apologize for my previous messages and tone. I think we all mean well.

I'm not saying things can't change but trust me, I was in SGA , I know how things work at our school and change does not occur overnight. I'm not saying the Dean is wrong but until it happens, I don't feel comfortable telling new students that is our policy. They have said things in the past and it has never materialized. If it happens great and I wil be more than happy to support my school with a fat donation but I refuse to do so until our school makes changes that benefit students like yourself who can't afford to spend months away from their families during third year because they hopping al over the U.S.

My apologies once again and I will delete that previous post. Good Luck to you

Speaking of SGA, how is that and other membership organizations taken into account during match? I was looking at list of AZCOM organizations and there are so many i'd like to join. How much time do current students have for time commitments to clubs? Any recommendations of particular clubs for incoming students who are unsure of the branch of medicine they're interested in? (personally, i'm leaning toward emergency med)

Not to sound like a complete idiot...But if you go away from Phoenix for a 4 or 6 week block for a certain rotation 3rd year, where do you live??

From all of this, I gather that 4th year runs more smoothly, and you can do your work in Phoenix hospitals?

I gather that when interviewing for residencies more would like to see that you did traditional hospital-based rotations rather than the preceptor model that AZCOM offers? And if this is true, the thing to do would be to arrange these rotations on your own 3rd year, perform well and get your LOR?

If you're just calling programs on your own as one little student trying to get a 4 or 6 week or whatever rotation in whatever...I'm confused...Would you be calling programs that are going to have other students rotating as well? Like say you call up MCO in Toledo and want to do your 6 week surg rotation...Are you going to be doing the standard rotation setup amongst the MCO students? So I guess my point is you'd be rotating in an established sort of 3rd year student program?

I'm sorry for all these silly questions...Just trying to educate myself more about AZCOM as a prospective student..

Tonloc08,

What year did you graduate from UNC? I've heard Greeley is a nice town and is much cheaper to live in than Boulder. When do you plan to move down to AZ?

-Matt

I graduated from UNC this december. Greeley is a fairly nice town because it's located very close to ft. collins and denver, but you can still stay away from the big city crowds. It's definately cheeper than boulder, but it's not cheep. The cost of living is similar to that of glendale. I'm currently living in AZ, in Chino Valley, helping my dad at his ranch and coaching track. I'm very ready to get down to the phoenix area where there are more people because it gets pretty boring up here.

Hi guys,

I see my classmate Novacek has been doing some business again. I would like to provide a counter argument. I respect Novacek's opnions and think it's awesome that you always hear both sides of the argument. I tend to be a bit more optimistic and am tremendously grateful for the opportunity I have had at AZCOM.

First of all, AZCOM is expensive. I think if you can deal with this, like most of you probably already have, then that's half the battle. Logistically, I am a fourth year who matched into my first choice Emergency medicine program. The school put me about 160K in the hole (everything included, even family expenses). When I graduate from EM the average job is 180+ minimum with salaries ranging into 200+ easily. I am not opposed to living like a student and paying back everything in a few years. I am aiming for a 2-3 year payback.

Second, this rotation issue has been discussed to the brink of death. I have enjoyed my third and fourth year due to the amount of flexibility I have had. I have not found problems rotating through hospitals. In fact, even in third year, I rotated through many community hospitals and found the learning to be equal is many ways, more advantageous in many ways, but also very different in many ways. The end results for me were encouraging. I hardly studied for step 2 comlex but still managed to put out an 80% board score. I have recently finshed up 5 months rotating in Hawaii, have enjoyed sunshine & academic learning. The school will eventually set up more hospital based rotations based on the demand. Logistically, however I agree with Novacek, this takes time. Although I personally am quite content with the rotation system, many of my class mates like Novacek are not. I do not belive their demands are unreasonable. I support them in their fight for more hospital based rotations not becasue I have found my own education to be sub-par, but becasue this would only add and benefit everyone.

The upcoming battle for all you new AZCOMers is to first ROCK the boards step 1. Then, be proactive in selecting your 3rd and 4th year rotations and learning to the best of you abilities. It will also be imperative for you to realize that the cost of attending AZCOM is not cheap, but once you can accept that, the less bitter the situation will be as you approach graduation. Lastly, you have a right to voice your opinions, thus helping to push the administration to meet the demands of students. I believe our class has done a good job in pushing the administration to make cahnges. This will need to continue, without getting bitter and callous.

Good luck to all you new AZCOMers. I have sat on the admission committee and am thoroughly impressed with many of you. Hold fast to your decisions to attend AZCOM. After four years, I am happy with where I am.

Hey Aloha,

Thanks for the encouraging feedback. Based on the EM matches on the 2005 list, I'd say you did pretty darn well. I just have one last general question about rotations. What proportion of hospitals provide housing? Did you find it difficult to find short term housing if the hospital didn't provide it? Also, I don't currently own a car. Would any current students suggest that I get one this summer before starting? Here in Boulder, CO where I live I don't need a car since the public transportation is really good and there's a large network of bike paths. How is the public trans in the Phoenix area? I really don't want to buy a car, but I will if it's really necessary. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

-Matt

Hey Aloha,

Thanks for the encouraging feedback. Based on the EM matches on the 2005 list, I'd say you did pretty darn well. I just have one last general question about rotations. What proportion of hospitals provide housing? Did you find it difficult to find short term housing if the hospital didn't provide it? Also, I don't currently own a car. Would any current students suggest that I get one this summer before starting? Here in Boulder, CO where I live I don't need a car since the public transportation is really good and there's a large network of bike paths. How is the public trans in the Phoenix area? I really don't want to buy a car, but I will if it's really necessary. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

-Matt


It seems most out of state allopathic hospitals don't provide housing. Some, however, do! Free meals too! If there is no housing, then students usually end up staying with family or rent nearby. With that said, most osteopathic program hospitals DO provide housing and meals/discounts.

For your 1st and 2nd year, you could technically do without a car, but for the average person it would be SUPER tough. You will definately need a car for 3rd and 4th year. It is insanely unreasonable to be catching the bus to your surgery rotation at 5 am and trying to catch the bus back home at 10 pm. NO CAN DO. I would suggest getting a car.

Aloha Kid,

Thanks for the solid insight and encouragement. Just curious to how early we should start lining up third year rotations. I'll be in Phoenix for the summer and I was thinking if I spent some time shadowing or volunteering at competitive rotation sights here in the valley I might be able to make some connections and maybe prop open a few doors when the time comes to apply for rotations. I suppose what I'm asking is how early is too early. Any thoughts? Congratulations with the recent match.

Anyone looking for housing? I've got a *very* nice condo 1 mile from campus (67th and 101) in a gated community on a golf course that I'm looking to rent out. I just bought another place, so I need someone to take over my lease. It's 2br/2ba, 1100 sq feet, has a one-car garage, and overlooks a nice lake. Very nice part of town. PM me if you are interested or know of anyone looking for a place.

See you all in the fall.

Aloha Kid,

Thanks for the solid insight and encouragement. Just curious to how early we should start lining up third year rotations. I'll be in Phoenix for the summer and I was thinking if I spent some time shadowing or volunteering at competitive rotation sights here in the valley I might be able to make some connections and maybe prop open a few doors when the time comes to apply for rotations. I suppose what I'm asking is how early is too early. Any thoughts? Congratulations with the recent match.


I think about half way through your second year, the school will start to schedule some of your 3rd year rotations. Once you have an idea of what is set up for you and what is not, then you can kind of begin to get an idea of what you like and don't like. The school will set up all your rotations if you want. However, if you are like most of my class, many of us did schedule 1 or more rotaions on our own and many of us did go out of state as well. The reasons vary.

I'm not sure if making connections before school would help. I would shadow for the purpose of exposure, but not so much trying to establish connections. It's not about connections at this point, but about hospital policies and contracts. Difficult to explain. I will need to take more time later on to talk about this more.

As an AZCOM grad 2003, it gives all that you will need and more...Remember medicine is all about life long learning. If you want to be lazy, guess what you can, if you want to work hard and learn you can. If you want to do all your rotations in the AZCOm system and get a match wherever you want, you can. If you want to spend extra money and go out you can. Your choice.
Have fun, AZCOM rocks. To see more details look at my old messages

Holy sh*t, Isnt this a thread for 2009 students? I was really pumped to come to MWU a few months ago, and now I finally have an acceptance and I see a thread full of bitching and moaning students? Why dont you guys join a chat room, start another thread, have a boxing match? Lets try and stay focused on the positive aspects of school, atleast till we start school and end any normal life we had. I appreciate the heads up, but you guys need to chill, really!

Just wanted to give a shout out to the incomming class! Think Im flying down in a couple weeks to check out apts. Be back with an update!

bjay27,

I agree! Welcome to the class and I look forward to meeting you in the fall. By the way, I'll be visiting some friends in Seattle coming up in June. Any suggestions on cool things to see? PM me.

-Matt

Hey all, welcome to AZCOM. I used to stay pretty up to date on this site but it has been a while since I have read (or posted) anything. I just spent the last hour and a half reading this entire thread and wow, some pretty strong opinions. Sorry for the detour. I hope nobody was scared off. I'm just a first year student and I don't have a lot of experience yet, but overall I have been very happy with my decision to come here. I hope that doesn't change anytime soon.

Earlier somebody mentioned the big brother/big sister program. All assignments have been made and as of now your older sibling should have all of your names and e-mail addresses, and it is up to them when (and if) they contact you. Some students are less than enthusiastic about it and you may never hear from them. (I still to this day have no idea who mine is.) Hopefully all of you have received a letter from the MSI student council with a list of our names and e-mail addresses so that you can contact any of us with any questions you may have. This is something that we decided to do this year because the big bro/sis program doesn't always work. If you didn't get it, call the admissions office and ask if they will send you one. If they don't know what you're talking about, PM me and I'll send it to you.

Again, sorry this thread got overrun for a while. If anybody has any questions that are a little more pertinent to your current situation, (i.e. housing, insurance, books, schedules, etc...) feel free to ask. I'm married with two kids and I live across the street from the school in the Arrowhead Highlands apartments (just to give you some perspective of where I'm coming from). I'll try to do a better job of staying up to date here.

Take care and congratulations. You should be proud of yourselves.

Just yesterday my "big brother" contacted me. I sent him an e-mail asking a ton of questions so he'll really have his hands full with me :D . One thing I've noticed from talking with AZCOM students and browsing on SDN is that it seems like there are quite a few students who are married and have kids. Being a single male with no kids in the foreseeable future, will I be in the minority?

crys20 said "Not to sound like a complete idiot...But if you go away from Phoenix for a 4 or 6 week block for a certain rotation 3rd year, where do you live?? "
Alohakid answered this, I believe.

"From all of this, I gather that 4th year runs more smoothly, and you can do your work in Phoenix hospitals?"
Yes - as it stands now, though, you need the hospital experience in your 3rd year to get in to the hospitals in your 4th year in Phoenix. (Not necessarily the case in the rest of the country, though.) So I don't know what Dean Cole has said, or how the system is going to work next year, but as it stands right now, you pretty much MUST travel in your 3rd year to do the rotations in your 4th year in Phoenix.

"I gather that when interviewing for residencies more would like to see that you did traditional hospital-based rotations rather than the preceptor model that AZCOM offers? And if this is true, the thing to do would be to arrange these rotations on your own 3rd year, perform well and get your LOR?"

Locally, all the programs here know the way the system is set up. I was asked what sort of hospital rotations I did when I interviewd at Phx Children's, but when I interviewed out of state, no one cared or knew the system. I have a friend who interviewed at Good Sam in Phx and was sort of asked the same thing but in not as nice a way.

I think, you really need to get your feet wet in a hospital setting. If you can't travel, or the school doesnt set up those hospital based rotations they are claiming to do in your 3rd year, you really need to do as many rotations as you can with a hospitalist. You need to get a feel for the hospital - how it all works - how to deal with nurses, the lab, etc.

The most importatn thing is to get GOOD LORs. I asked for them when I did well on a rotation. Realize, though, that some people, while good doctors, aren't such great writers. So you want to get as many LORs as you can. No one cared (except here at Phx Children's) where they came from.

"If you're just calling programs on your own as one little student trying to get a 4 or 6 week or whatever rotation in whatever...I'm confused...Would you be calling programs that are going to have other students rotating as well? Like say you call up MCO in Toledo and want to do your 6 week surg rotation...Are you going to be doing the standard rotation setup amongst the MCO students? So I guess my point is you'd be rotating in an established sort of 3rd year student program? "

There are 3rd year rotations, and then there are 4th year Senior electives. People all over the country are calling for 4th year senior electives, so that is no big deal. As far as the 3rd year rotations go, it is generally easier to set them up at an Osteopathic teaching facility that takes other DO students, like St Vincent's in Toledo, for example. Again, it's not that big of a deal, because they get students calling them all the time. As a 3rd year, you'd be doing a standard rotation like other 3rd years.

"I'm sorry for all these silly questions...Just trying to educate myself more about AZCOM as a prospective student.."

Dude - that's what this place is for! Your questions are totally legit!

kristin
AZCOM class of 2005

One thing I've noticed from talking with AZCOM students and browsing on SDN is that it seems like there are quite a few students who are married and have kids. Being a single male with no kids in the foreseeable future, will I be in the minority?

No. My guess is that's it's about 60/40 in favor of the single guys. I think one of the reasons that there are a lot of married guys here is that there are simply a lot of older guys. I think the average age in our class is about 27 or so. Trust me though, there are plenty of single guys (and single girls) that get together and go out on the weekends. You'll have fun.

Speaking of SGA, how is that and other membership organizations taken into account during match? I was looking at list of AZCOM organizations and there are so many i'd like to join. How much time do current students have for time commitments to clubs? Any recommendations of particular clubs for incoming students who are unsure of the branch of medicine they're interested in? (personally, i'm leaning toward emergency med)
I can't speak for how things get taken into consideration as far as being accepted into a residency, but I agree that there are a lot of organizations that you can choose from. During the second or third week of school they have what's called club week where you'll have an opportunity to join any club (or clubs) that you want to. Don't feel pressured to join anything if you don't really want to. And don't feel pressured to sign up that week if you want to take some time to think about it. (I'm sure you can join any club at any time during the year).

Some of the organizations that the majority of the students are a part of are SOMA (student osteopathic medical association), AMSA (american medical student association), and the AMA (american medical association). They do a lot of good things on behalf of the students, and with membership in some of them you get a free Netter's atlas (very helpful for anatomy).

As far as specialty clubs go (Peds, EM, surgery, etc...) I would say to sign up for those that you are thinking you might go into. Most of the time the presidency for the next year is chosen from the members of the current year. Clubs really aren't that much of a time committment, especially for the first years. Most activities consist of guest speakers at lunch, workshops in the evening, or an occasional health fair once in a while.

You can also get involved in student government as well. The MSI student council has about 10 or 11 positions. Elections are usually held somewhere around 4 or 5 weeks into your first quarter.

Anyway, like anything else in life you can be as much or as little involved as you want to. Just a quick piece of common sense advice, make sure you've got a good handle on your classes before you get too involved in extracurricular activities. You don't want to be failing out of school because you got talked into signing up for all 30 or so clubs and are trying to go to all of the activities.

hi everyone, thanks for all the helpful answers! another question, what happens during the 3 days of orientation? and curious why the white coat ceremony is in the middle of Q2? Also, with the Christmas holidays right in the middle of Q2, do you actually get a break, or end up studying during the holidays? (i've gotten too used to being on semester schedule)

I think the white coat ceremony isn't until Q2 since it will be too hot to have it in August. And correct me if I'm wrong, orientation begins on August 24th right?

hi everyone, thanks for all the helpful answers! another question, what happens during the 3 days of orientation?

During orientation you sit through a lot of meetings and get introduced to a lot of people who work around campus. You're not expected to do much of anything other than show up. Two of the more important presentations you will get are about student insurance and diagnostic equipment. Every student is required to carry health insurance, and I've heard that the school is really going to push you guys to buy the schools health insurance plan. The idea being that the more people they have buy into it, the cheaper it will be. You will also get pressured to order all of your equipment during the first week. You will get told that you are absolutely required to have it all for the first week of Dr. Schwartz's Introduction to Clinical Medicine class. The truth is the only thing that you really need is a stethescope. If you want to buy everything then that is fine, most people do. I've got a good friend here who didn't buy anything. He just uses his stethescope that he already had and he has gotten along just fine.

and curious why the white coat ceremony is in the middle of Q2?

The white coat ceremony is in December mainly because of the weather. Apparently they used to have it earlier in the year but it was so hot that everybody was just miserable. Ours was the first week of December and the weather was awesome.

Also, with the Christmas holidays right in the middle of Q2, do you actually get a break, or end up studying during the holidays? (i've gotten too used to being on semester schedule)

Yes you will (or should) end up studying over Christmas break. The faculty are all pretty cool and they are really good to work out a test schedule that works well with the vacation schedule. In the end, though, they can only do the best they can and more than likely you will end up having a test just a couple of days after you get back. (We had a Physiology test the wednesday after we got back). You won't need to put in a ton of time over the break, but it would be a good idea to be caught up when you get back.

Thought there were some pretty interesting articles about medical school in the latest isssue of NEJM. If you dont have access to these links for some reason, I can e-mail you.


Becoming a Physician: Notes to the Class — First Day
K. Treadway
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/352/19/1943?query=TOC
An Audio Interview with Dr. Katharine Treadway on teaching compassion to medical students
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/352/19/1943/DC1?query=TOC

Becoming a Physician: MSL — Medicine as a Second Language
R.K. Sobel
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/352/19/1945

When do MSII students start?

Thought there were some pretty interesting articles about medical school in the latest isssue of NEJM. If you dont have access to these links for some reason, I can e-mail you.


Becoming a Physician: Notes to the Class — First Day
K. Treadway
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/352/19/1943?query=TOC
An Audio Interview with Dr. Katharine Treadway on teaching compassion to medical students
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/352/19/1943/DC1?query=TOC

Becoming a Physician: MSL — Medicine as a Second Language
R.K. Sobel
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/352/19/1945

When do MSII students start?


MSIIs usually begin the same day that MSIs start class (not including orientation).

Has anyone who will be living on campus received their assignment yet? I think Jose Ponce told me it would be mailed mid to late June but I can't remember exactly. Also, any word on financial aid award letters?

Has anyone who will be living on campus received their assignment yet? I think Jose Ponce told me it would be mailed mid to late June but I can't remember exactly. Also, any word on financial aid award letters?

Financial aid awards are still waiting for next year's cost of attendence i.e. tuition to be set.

As far as housing goes give Jose a call and ask him if you've received campus housing. I called him and from what I gather he can probably tell people if they will have housing but nothing about the specific assignments yet.

Has anyone who will be living on campus received their assignment yet? I think Jose Ponce told me it would be mailed mid to late June but I can't remember exactly. Also, any word on financial aid award letters?

Matt,

I stopped by the financial aid office a few days ago and it sounds like we should be getting the first disbursement of our federal loans on September 2nd. Hylacinerea might have mentioned this as well but once they decide on how much they are going to tweak the tuition this year we should get our award letters. It seems rather late in the year to still not have a set tuition for this upcoming year.

Just a thought...does anyone know if the increase is dictated by the collective financial needs of the university or specifically by the needs of the college of osteopathic medicine?



"I'll tell you the secret to how I achieved my goal. My strength lies solely in tenacity."
- Louis Pasteur

http://www.midwestern.edu/Acad%20Cal%20Master05063.pdf

2005-2006 calendar.

Thanks for the info Jason! I'll be awaiting the award letter. That academic calender is daunting, I'll admit. We'd better appreciate those three days in between each quarter :D .

Thanks for the info Jason! I'll be awaiting the award letter. That academic calender is daunting, I'll admit. We'd better appreciate those three days in between each quarter :D .


Usually MSIs get 2 weeks off at Thanksgiving and Christmas, and then they get a week for Spring Break. Hope that your class has the same luxury, but I must admit that I haven't looked at the schedule yet.

Good luck y'all.

Tip for your first year: Hire a recorder/transcription person for the neuroanatomy lectures. Our class decided on forking out cash to a crop of our peers to record and transcribe the lectures. Was great come study time.

AZCOM profs generally give out great notes but nero notes are just an outline. Dr. Mihailoff is one brilliant guy. In retrospect HY neuroanatomy would be a nice guide to give you the big picture for what you are studying. Other than that the text given with the course is very readable.

Sneak into the nice resorts (Camelback, The Phonecian, The Princess, etc...) bring a book or two, kick back by the pool and do some reading, then grab a drink. One of the best things about the Scottsdale area.

I never lived on campus. Too creepy to be that close to the school.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0518wedlets183.html

What do you guys think?

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0518wedlets183.html

What do you guys think?

Very interesting! Thanks for posting this article. As I read it I kept thinking of Michigan State. I think at MSU both DO and MD students take the same classes at least at first (obviously not including omm). The author has a good idea and it would probably help foster an even better relationship between the DO/MD worlds. However, I think the potential financial issues would be quite problematic. State tuition is much cheaper than azcom and it would not be very fair to have two different tuition rates for students taking the same classes. My answer to that is for azcom to lower the tuition since there will be more paying students and then the state could help subsidize the DO students too becasue as the author pointed out, this would be helping to increase the number of practicing physicians in the state. Ok enough day-dreaming for now. :sleep:

Tip for your first year: Hire a recorder/transcription person for the neuroanatomy lectures. Our class decided on forking out cash to a crop of our peers to record and transcribe the lectures. Was great come study time.

AZCOM profs generally give out great notes but nero notes are just an outline. Dr. Mihailoff is one brilliant guy. In retrospect HY neuroanatomy would be a nice guide to give you the big picture for what you are studying. Other than that the text given with the course is very readable.


Our class didn't do this, and it was no big deal.

Hi. Anyone still looking for housing? I am in need of a roommate for a home in Arrowhead Lakes approx. 1mi from campus. I can provide more details if you email me at pduong@usc.edu.

Hey All,

I'm looking for a few clean roomates to fill a spacious 4 bedroom 2 bath house. It is only 1.4 miles from campus and has a 3 car garage, pool, jacuzzi, sports court, and a park/basketball court across the street. Rent is 400 a month. Email me if you have questions: dustinlloyd19@hotmail.com. Thanks.

There was some argument about AZCOM getting access to Phoenix hospitals on this thread not too long ago. Looks like the nay-sayers were wrong. Where's Novacek88 now? :p :thumbdown

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/0524midwestern24.html

Midwestern University gains access to hospitals

Jodie Snyder
The Arizona Republic
May. 24, 2005 12:00 AM

Every day, hundreds of students at Midwestern University, a large private medical school in Glendale, learn the finer points of human anatomy.

But Midwestern officials could give their own pointers about muscle - political muscle, that is.

The little-known school weighed in during the recent University of Arizona Phoenix medical school debate at the right time and extracted some long-coveted considerations from its rival. Both Midwestern and the UA train medical school students in Phoenix, but ever since Midwestern arrived nine years ago, it has argued that the UA blocked access to critical hospital spots for its students, which the UA denies.

The result of Midwestern recent efforts: More osteopath students will probably train in the Valley's largest hospitals, and Midwestern hopes more will stay and practice in the area.

Midwestern accomplished its goals by telling legislators it supported funding the UA medical school in Phoenix as long as Midwestern got access to scarce hospital spots for its third- and fourth-year students. The University of Arizona needed all the support it could muster to get funding for the medical school.

Arguing to legislators that the state needs more physicians, Midwestern persuaded state lawmakers to pass a law that hospitals can't be prohibited by a medical school from taking students from another school.

The passing of the law shows the political intricacies of educating doctors. It also comes at a time when the UA is trying to get its downtown Phoenix medical school up and running and other private medical schools are looking around in the Valley about moving here.

Located on a 150-acre campus, Midwestern offers four years of basic medical school classes, with the last two concentrated in clinical rotations through physician's offices and hospitals. Those rotations are key in the training for doctors-to-be.

There is a limited number of spots in the Valley for students to train in hospitals and UA students usually take them.

Unlike the UA, which trains allopathic physicians, Midwestern trains osteopaths, a type of physician that stresses holistic medicine. Over the past decades, allopathic medicine has overshadowed osteopathic; membership in the American Medical Association is far greater than membership in the osteopathic counterpart. Across the country, the rivalry between MDs and DOs has been intense but many say the acrimony between the two has died off.

Kathleen Goeppinger, Midwestern University's president, downplayed the rivalry as a reason for the lack of access to hospital rotations.

"The hospitals told us they didn't want to step on the UA's toes by offering the spots," she said.

Both Banner Good Samaritan Medical Center and St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center say they don't have any Midwestern third-year students because they have designed longstanding "defined curriculum" with the UA that makes it difficult to bring in students from other schools.

Banner says more than 30 percent of fourth-year students are from Midwestern. St. Joes says it varies around 20 percent.

Without more spots, 38 percent of Midwestern's 266 third- and fourth-year students went out of state for their training.

Midwestern told legislators that keeping those students would help create more Arizona physicians by encouraging students to remain here. But university officials say they don't know how many students decided not to return to Arizona because of the lack of spots.

With their latest legislative victory, Midwestern hopes to get its students into hospital rotations as early as fall.

Judy Bernas, associate vice president for federal relations for the UA, isn't so sure about that timetable, saying the UA wants to work with Midwestern but placing its own students appropriately has to be its first priority.

After a legislative battle, the UA got the money to educate 24 new students a year in Phoenix. It wants to eventually have 150 students a year in Phoenix. The UA already has 80 to 100 third- and fourth-year students in rotations in Phoenix.

The UA pays the hospital some of the training costs for those third- and fourth-year students.

Midwestern residents, medical students who have graduated, don't face problems getting into hospital spots, unlike their third- and fourth-year counterparts, Goeppinger said.

Unlike a medical-school program, hospitals pick their own residents.

Nor did the school's about 900 pharmacy students find any problems in getting hospital rotations. The school has 507 pharmacy graduates, and 384 current students.

"They were so desperate, they came to our door begging for our students," she said.

The medical-school debate has helped put a spotlight on Midwestern, which has been growing steadily over the past nine years.

In 1996, when Midwestern, which has trained osteopathic students for more than 100 years near Chicago, decided to open a second campus in the Valley there was no discussion of a physician shortage in Arizona.

The non-profit Midwestern, which has $245 million in assets, decided the area provided opportunities to train students and serve patients.

It has grown to be a large academic campus, complete with living quarters. The campus also trains other health care professionals such as physician assistants and occupational therapists. It also offers a program for perfusionists, who are trained to operate heart and lung machines and recently began a program to train nurse anesthetists, one of the most in-demand health care professions.

It is also starting a podiatry program and is looking at bringing clinical psychology to campus as well.

Goeppinger says Midwestern is thinking about developing a nursing school. The community colleges do a good job in training entry-level nurses but there is a need for more advanced programs, she said.

Interesting article. It really shows how much politics are involved in medical education. I would guess this bodes well for current and future AZCOM students.

New tuition rate just came out; went up the full 7%. OUCH! At this rate we'll be paying over 45K in tuition our last year. This is seriously ridiculous. The thing that really annoys me is that we're paying so much money partly so that MWU can open up more programs like nursing, podiatry, perfusion, etc., not that I don't think these are needed I just don't want to be the one to fund it. Gotta love private school huh?

Just back from MWU yesterday. New tuition rates are posted, yikes! 57K/yr with off-campus living :eek:
Good thing I landed an AF scholarship :D

For those un-interested in living in on-campus housing, because all the decent rms are taken, or your looking for something a little nicer, (or all I am looking for is a freakin washer and dryer). I checked out the two Mark Taylor apt. complexes accross the street from MWU. Yes, I was out in 105 heat, (coming from Seattle) and it wasnt too bad! The two places are either San Prado, and Arrowhead (highlands). The (brand new) San Prado lot is 1/2 the size of Arrowhead, but has a built in overhead carport (right at your apt.) really really nice pool, 24h fitness, pc room w/ fax copier 1bds are all on the bottom. Arrowhead is huge (380 apts.), larger fitness rm. with shower and sauna, sand beach pool, available copy fax, but shared with the office. Arrowhead also has a nice little moat arround everything, and since its older, they usually have monthly functions set up. Their 1bdrms are all on the 2nd floor (except for 4). Arrowhead has a white electric appliance/ countertop with maple cabinets while San Prado has black gas appliances with cherry cabinetry and red/gray marble looking countertops. Both start at $780 -20 for MWU per month for 1bdrms. Usually theres a movin special, and the Arrowhead lady said she'd give me 1/2 off my first months rent no matter what. PM me with any other questions, I havent decided which I like better. I do know that most MWU students live at Arrowhead. You need to get on a waiting list for Aug. at these places if your interested, everyone on the list has almost always gotten a rm., takes a $150 check, and this is refundable. PM me with any questions! Check out Rent.Com for more info on these.

I also looked at a place called Strayhorse arrowhead ranch, a couple mins from school, (b/c they have washer and dryers) and they have a decent place with great rates $680 for big ass 1bdrms, including sewer and water I think. I just want to be able to walk to class, so I didnt consider them!

When is everyone moving? I cant decide whether to come down at the beginning or mid of August? If some peeps want to party and hang during the calm before the storm, I'll be there earlier than later!

New tuition rate just came out; went up the full 7%. OUCH! At this rate we'll be paying over 45K in tuition our last year. This is seriously ridiculous. The thing that really annoys me is that we're paying so much money partly so that MWU can open up more programs like nursing, podiatry, perfusion, etc., not that I don't think these are needed I just don't want to be the one to fund it. Gotta love private school huh?

Bastards jacked it up 6 and 7% every year I was there.....Thank God I finished in 4.....

hey, congrats on the scholarship! I'll probably be there early August. It'll be cool to check out the city/area with some ppl (hiking anyone?).

Just back from MWU yesterday. New tuition rates are posted, yikes! 57K/yr with off-campus living :eek:
Good thing I landed an AF scholarship :D

For those un-interested in living in on-campus housing, because all the decent rms are taken, or your looking for something a little nicer, (or all I am looking for is a freakin washer and dryer). I checked out the two Mark Taylor apt. complexes accross the street from MWU. Yes, I was out in 105 heat, (coming from Seattle) and it wasnt too bad! The two places are either San Prado, and Arrowhead (highlands). The (brand new) San Prado lot is 1/2 the size of Arrowhead, but has a built in overhead carport (right at your apt.) really really nice pool, 24h fitness, pc room w/ fax copier 1bds are all on the bottom. Arrowhead is huge (380 apts.), larger fitness rm. with shower and sauna, sand beach pool, available copy fax, but shared with the office. Arrowhead also has a nice little moat arround everything, and since its older, they usually have monthly functions set up. Their 1bdrms are all on the 2nd floor (except for 4). Arrowhead has a white electric appliance/ countertop with maple cabinets while San Prado has black gas appliances with cherry cabinetry and red/gray marble looking countertops. Both start at $780 -20 for MWU per month for 1bdrms. Usually theres a movin special, and the Arrowhead lady said she'd give me 1/2 off my first months rent no matter what. PM me with any other questions, I havent decided which I like better. I do know that most MWU students live at Arrowhead. You need to get on a waiting list for Aug. at these places if your interested, everyone on the list has almost always gotten a rm., takes a $150 check, and this is refundable. PM me with any questions! Check out Rent.Com for more info on these.

I also looked at a place called Strayhorse arrowhead ranch, a couple mins from school, (b/c they have washer and dryers) and they have a decent place with great rates $680 for big ass 1bdrms, including sewer and water I think. I just want to be able to walk to class, so I didnt consider them!

When is everyone moving? I cant decide whether to come down at the beginning or mid of August? If some peeps want to party and hang during the calm before the storm, I'll be there earlier than later!

Congrats!

This is another lowly MSII that thinks you make a great choice :-). Gotta love being able to study all day any time of the year and still be able to see the sun and/or ride a bike to and from school.

I'm an older student in our class with two elementary school kids and a house about 2 miles East of campus. If I can answer any specific questions feel free to PM. Now that finals are over I should more active on SDN.

So, some thoughts/suggestions:

1) Start thinking about what you want to do next summer early. Summer research fellowships with faculty fill up fast, as do anatomy TAships (but they don't open up until Spring).

2) Don't worry too much about rotations yet. Things are changing for the better. You can get what you want and hopefully won't have to work as hard to get it as our predecessors. For example: even before the recnt legislative stuff Dean McWilliams acquired 14 ward-based IM rotations a month (3rd yr) for us a large hospital in Yuma. It is getting better.

3) The school is pretty proactive. As an example, this year's Topics class 3rd quarter was geared towards USMLE Step 1. For the first time, we had a class on the Biostats material that is traditionally only taught at Allo schools.

4) While I'm no expert, I'd like to clarify a couple things. We have always been able to rotate locally 4th year, but needed 8 wks ward-based (inpatient) rotation first that we couldn't get, even though rotation slots at UofA hospitals went empty. We will now (starting with Maricopa County) be able to fill those empty slots, primarily IM. Again, the school is working to improve things. Heck, it's in their best interest to!

5) I would encourage students to (after getting a handle on the studies) get active in clubs and student government. You've heard about the politics between UofA and AZCOM. Please realize this is at the Governor's and Administrator's level. I'm the VP for our AMA chapter and we're going to a Socs game in Chicago with the UofA officers at the national convention next month. In fact. our Prez is rooming with one of their officers.

6) As has been mentioned out faculty is pretty good. Anatomy and Neuro are simply outstanding. I think Dr. Mihailoff's Neuro class is the best organized and lectured class I ever attended (that includes B-school from a good instituion).

7) The students really are great. Take advantage of your Big Sis/Bro. Feel free PM me if they haven't contacted you yet and I will try to locate them or answer your questions. Our upperclassmen have been terrific. We'll do our best to continue their tradition. Get to know your class. Try studying with different groups/styles. First quarter is intentionally a little easier so you can do this.

8) If you want to save some money look for health insurance, books & med equipment now while you have time (I'm a huge Ebay fan!).

That's enough for now. Orientation is a kick. You made it!

Hey jgrady,

Thanks so much for that first year advice. It's really encouraging to know I will be attending a school with such helpful and supportive classmates. I'm still in a bind as to whether I should live on or off campus. For on campus, I already have a deposit down on a really cheap standard two bedroom apartment. But I've already seen reasonable prices on off campus places. Do you or anyone else know students who have lived in the standard two bedroom apartment with a roommate? Are they as cramped as I've been hearing? I really don't want to regret any housing decision I make, so any feedback would be greatly appreciated. :D

Hey jgrady,

Thanks so much for that first year advice. It's really encouraging to know I will be attending a school with such helpful and supportive classmates. I'm still in a bind as to whether I should live on or off campus. For on campus, I already have a deposit down on a really cheap standard two bedroom apartment. But I've already seen reasonable prices on off campus places. Do you or anyone else know students who have lived in the standard two bedroom apartment with a roommate? Are they as cramped as I've been hearing? I really don't want to regret any housing decision I make, so any feedback would be greatly appreciated. :D

I'm finishing up two years in a luxury 2br with vaulted ceilings and it's just big enough...from what I've seen of the standards, it would be tough going if you're the sort to study a lot in your apartment.

All in all, I've been very happy with on-campus housing; being able to stumble to a test in the morning is helpful. There are drawbacks...it's a little expensive, the "forum" architecture tends to amplify the screams of the dear but very numerous children, and despite the school's claims that you get free cable and internet, you in fact get *school* cable, which is poor man's basic, and internet via the school's ethernet system, which is by far the worst I've ever experienced.

Oh yeah, also! A picture I took right outside my apartment door last month:
http://www.kesil.com/bees.jpg

Hopefully that little issue is taken care of.

If I had to do it again I'd be split between the virtues of proximity and amenity (and actually, for those few who don't mind a drive from central phoenix, there are some awesome complexes in the art district). If I had to choose between off-campus and one of the standards, though, I'd personally go off-campus with no regrets.

I'll pipe in and answer a few questions as well. PM or just post...and I'll respond whenever I check SDN.

Lukewhite is absolutely right about the third floor vaulted ceilings....they are worth it.

for furniture:
1) check out http://phoenix.craigslist.org/
2) eBay (do an advanced search for the 85308 zip code)
3) garage sales in Scottsdale
4) Copenhagen Imports (must go the to the warehouse with "damaged" furniture) -- in most cases, there is hardly anything more than a cosmetic scratch that's not even visible..but will be 50% off.

for books:
1) don't buy them
2) okay, if buy them there are only a handful you will truly need
3) You will have a chance to get a free Netters Atlas at the beginning of the year

for medical equipment:
1) Take the time to handle both the Welch Allyn and Littman before buying a scope
2) You don't need everything they recommend...there are only a handful of things you need..and in dire situations you can get by without those too
3) don't buy anything early as Welch Allyn will come to the school and offer discounted prices

If getting a laptop:
1) get a portable laptop, not a desktop replacement
2) coupons good at dell:
$750 off $1899 Inspiron Notebooks code BF606XBVMFBG9L Exp 6/1
$600 off $1599 Inspiron Notebooks code 3QD9NPCTXP9?MH Exp 6/1
$500 off $1399 Inspiron Notebooks code N$K3$NR1ZNV4B0 Exp 6/1
3) check out http://www.fatwallet.com/c/18/ and keep an eye out for good laptop deals (as well as anything else you may want to purchase)

If you like watching TV:
1) Buy a TIVO. (you can use the fatwallet site to help search for one)
I'd recommend paying the lifetime fee over the monthly
There are sites out there that can show you how to replace the HD in your tivo so it will handle more hours (or sites you can send your tivo so it be done for you)

Student Loans & Fin Aid:
1) THE loans from www.northstar.org are the best option available
2) Don't forget to consolidate your loans (if eligible) before July 1st as rates are expected to rise
3) If you said you were interested in work study on your FAFSA, then you will be alloted $1000 of Federal WS...but the maximum amount of your private loan eligibility will be lowered by $1000. If you said you were not interested, your be able to take out $1000 in private loans over students who did choose that option.
4) It IS worth your time to figure who gives you the stafford loan and private loan options. Two students can take out the same amount of money in stafford + private loans...but both students will repay back different amounts due to the interest accrued...this difference could EASILY be $30,000 if not more.

Thanks for the feedback PoohChong and Luke. I guess I never though about the child noise factor. I'm so used to living in a college town where there really aren't too many kids around. As far as studying goes, I've always been the type who likes to study at the library so I really don't see that as a problem. The basic cable and slow internet connection are something to think about as well. I'll continue to weigh the pros and cons of each option...

I'm finishing up two years in a luxury 2br with vaulted ceilings and it's just big enough...from what I've seen of the standards, it would be tough going if you're the sort to study a lot in your apartment.

All in all, I've been very happy with on-campus housing; being able to stumble to a test in the morning is helpful. There are drawbacks...it's a little expensive, the "forum" architecture tends to amplify the screams of the dear but very numerous children, and despite the school's claims that you get free cable and internet, you in fact get *school* cable, which is poor man's basic, and internet via the school's ethernet system, which is by far the worst I've ever experienced.

Oh yeah, also! A picture I took right outside my apartment door last month:
http://www.kesil.com/bees.jpg

Hopefully that little issue is taken care of.

If I had to do it again I'd be split between the virtues of proximity and amenity (and actually, for those few who don't mind a drive from central phoenix, there are some awesome complexes in the art district). If I had to choose between off-campus and one of the standards, though, I'd personally go off-campus with no regrets.

Thanks for all the info! Could you expand on the quality of the school internet? What makes it so bad, is it really slow? What's the deal with the numerous children? I was not expecting that one. I guess I just thought there wouldn't be that many people with kids here. Plus I figured people with kids would want to live off campus anyway. Hmmn, now I'm a little freaked out that I'll be moving into some sort of daycare complex with crappy internet and cable for about the same price as living off campus.

The cable is a mix between basic cable and standard cable.

The school can choose about 30 channels, so in addition to the regualar network channels you have espn, espn II, comedy central, mtv, mtvII, vh1, discovery, TNT....

For me, there aren't any channels missing that I would want to have...well possibly the history channel and foxsports

I don't think you have the option of ordering premium channels like HBO

The internet works fast enough for me...but sometimes the internet can slow to a crawl or just stop working, but usually if I wait a minute...it'll be back up. I don't know why this occurs...perhaps someone(s) are hogging up ALL the bandwidth...putting everyone else's internet to a crawl. Regarding the internet, for me, personally, it would not be the reason why I would move off-campus because I don't think it's bad enough to warrant that much consideration.

Thanks for all the info! Could you expand on the quality of the school internet? What makes it so bad, is it really slow? What's the deal with the numerous children? I was not expecting that one. I guess I just thought there wouldn't be that many people with kids here. Plus I figured people with kids would want to live off campus anyway. Hmmn, now I'm a little freaked out that I'll be moving into some sort of daycare complex with crappy internet and cable for about the same price as living off campus.

Children without number! I like them; they're cute. They can, however, get rather noisy when playing in the hall (not that the drunken PA students on Thursday nights are any less so, and they keep worse hours). If you are studying in the library or are in that pleasant part of the year in which opening doors and windows means Certain Death From Heat, it's not a problem.

As for the internet, I may be a little more bitter towards it than Pooh Chong due to an inconvenient and day-long schoolwide outage a few months ago during the high season of boards studying. This is not unprecedented. Also, as Pooh noted, the internet does have a habit of slowing to a crawl frequently and without warning. To add insult to injury, the school has various use-rules (no streaming audio on a broadband connection?) which, though they seem to be rarely enforced, are irritating.

The main advantages of student housing, I think, are simplicity and proximity...you consolidate a lot of bills and get them taken care of through the normal finaid process, and can get to campus quickly. Those are significant advantages. I don't think, though, that they really offer a good deal compared to other places nearby beyond that.

I don't recall the day long outages...but my memory can be selective at times.

The main advantage, which lukewhite pointed out already, I like being able to get on and off campus quickly. I don't attend all the classes (the majority of classes)....and the on campus housing is perfect for that as I would have to either spend that time studying (in the library or cafeteria) or just stay in class.

I don't have problems with children in my building, so that problem is a bit of a random draw.

More on the bandwidth issue. Typically, download speeds from major sites like download.com are between 100-200kb/s. This is pretty impressive I think, although it would be interesting to find out just what (and how many) type of connections housing has. My guess would be a couple T1s split between all of housing. The real drag comes in the evenings and even more on weekends, when Chong and friends are tired of studying and want to download mp3z and porn all night.
Last time I was there, I installed a free program called "anyspeed" (on a friends pc) which measures bandwidth constantly, then gives you a plot over hrs, days, weeks. I never checked the long-term plots, but I know on some wknd nights it dragged down to 1.4kb/s and less.
When housing did their last internet upgrade, they should have tried to aliquot a certain bandwidth to each port, or at least tried to monitor bandwidth usage, and identified offenders like Chongy Pooh.

On the noise issue, the real problem is the damn echo in the courtyards. It seems to only be and issue when you have your windows open and you're forced to hear all of your neighbors make even more kids. There are quite a lot of kids though, but its more building specific.

First years, I would not recommend getting a normal 2 bedroom (with roommate). "Go big or go home", and enjoy life with the upgrade. I think the normal 2bdrms would be great for couples or with a family. I don’t know about you, but Id rather be studying medicine and not how to make my roommates death look accidental.

Is there a official, unofficial book list somewhere, Or even a class schedule for MSI.
thanks

Here's my advice for the first quarter Book/Supply list:
Netter Atlas (free from at least two clubs)
Netter Software (opt. I swear by this SW - make your own quizzes, it pronounces terms, give origins/insertions unlike the text. I even bought the PDA version for class breaks)
Moore & Dailey (opt. anatomy text used mostly for clinical coorelates)
Rohen (opt. photographic altas - very helpful outside of lab)
OMM Comlex Review Book (opt. Very helpful for first 2 yrs - in bookstore)
OMM Foundations Book (req'd But most of us still don't have it - $110)
Biochemistry Board Review (The exact title is in the bookstore; I liked this inexpensive paperback.)
Embryo by Sadler (I bought it because they test from it, but it stinks.)
Netter Embryo (opt. I bought it because I was waiting for Sadler before a test, somewhat useful but far down the priority list.)
Histo (There's several atlases that are used in class, I ended up with about 4 but they are available in the library for prepping before praticals.)
PDA w/ medical distionary (Few students had these, but I would highly recommend spending the $100. Highly efficient and portable way to survive ICM and the thousands of latin terms you're introduced to. I purchased both around Xmas & it made a huge difference.)

Physiology by Constanzo (2nd Qtr, get this book. After the Netter Atlas, the most useful text I have and the only one I really read. Plus it's cheap.)



MSI Class Schedule last year (2004-2005) which shouldn't change much:

Fall Quarter 23.4 quarter credits
CORE 1460 Interdisciplinary Health Care 0.5
ANAT 1511 Gross Anatomy I 5.0
BIOC 1511 Biochemistry I 7.0
FMED 1511 Clinical Correlates/ICM I 3.0
HIST 1511 Histology/Embryology I 4.4
OMED 1511 Osteopathic Medicine I 2.5
PSYC 1511 Intro. to Human Behavior I 1.0

Winter Quarter 23.5 quarter credits
CORE 1470 Interdisciplinary Health Care 0.5
PHYS 1521 Physiology I 5.5
ANAT 1522 Gross Anatomy II 5.0
BIOC 1522 Biochemistry II 4.0
CMED 1521 OCM I/Early Clinical Experience 0.5
FMED 1522 Clinical Correlates/ICM II 3.0
HIST 1522 Histology/Embryology II 1.5
OMED 1522 Osteopathic Medicine II 2.5
PSYC 1522 Intro. to Human Behavior II 1.0

Spring Quarter 24.0 quarter credits
CORE 1480 Interdisciplinary Health Care 0.5
FMED 1531 Topics in Medicine I 1.5
MICR 1531 Immunology 3.0
NEUR 1531 Neuroscience 6.5
PHYS 1532 Physiology II 5.5
CMED 1532 OCM I/Early Clinical Experience 0.5
FMED 1533 Clinical Correlates/ICM III 3.0
OMED 1533 Osteopathic Medicine III 2.5
PSYC 1533 Intro. to Human Behavior III 1.0
ELEC Electives *

Could anyone tell me what the estimated budget is for MS1 books?

Budgets vary widely. I know of one classmate that didn't purchase any books at all.

At a minimum for first quarter I would say Netter ($60 for club membership + free Netter) and a stethoscope ($75 and up). Plus you'll need to contribute with your lab mates to a lab Netter (around $20 unless someone donates a spare to the group). Then you'll really need Constanzo's Phys and Mihailoff's Text Atlas ($150) the last two quarters.

From there, the sky's the limit. I'm guessing the average budget for first year books and equipment is around a thousand, but that's just a guess.

hey, thanks for that awesome list! btw, what did you mean when you mentioned that some students got by without buying the required books? Is there a bunch at the library we can check out? or do students share books? Or perhaps the books are required just b/c the prof wrote it? :) Also, is there a particular software you recommend for the pda med dictionary? What about pdas, any particular kind that we need? I currently have a clie, but wanted to wait until 3rd yr to upgrade to another palm since i hear we don't really need it until wards. And anyone know if we'll get a back test cd like the MS1 got last yr?

hey, thanks for that awesome list! btw, what did you mean when you mentioned that some students got by without buying the required books? Is there a bunch at the library we can check out? or do students share books? Or perhaps the books are required just b/c the prof wrote it? :) Also, is there a particular software you recommend for the pda med dictionary? What about pdas, any particular kind that we need? I currently have a clie, but wanted to wait until 3rd yr to upgrade to another palm since i hear we don't really need it until wards. And anyone know if we'll get a back test cd like the MS1 got last yr?


You can check out copies of current edition books...but as Refernce books, so they cannot leave the library...and they ask you to bring them back within 2 hours. If you study at the library...then you will not need to purchase that many books, but the vast majority do book certain books. For first quarter (because you will not buy 2nd quarter or 3rd quarter books until then), you only really need books for Gross Anatomy/Histology & Embryology (it's sort of taught as one really large class). There are books required for all the courses, but in most cases, they give out detailed notes that cover everything you need to know...so the required texts are not a big deal.

Here's my recommendation:
Netter, Atlas of Human Anatomy
McMinn, Color Atlas of Human Anatomy
Rohen and Yokochi, Color Atlas of Human Anatomy
Sadler, Langman's Medical Embryology (which I actually don't like)
More, Before We Are Born (this will save you in embryo..it's a much better book and Langman's)

Fall Quarter 23.4 quarter credits
CORE 1460 Interdisciplinary Health Care 0.5
NO BOOK
ANAT 1511 Gross Anatomy I 5.0
Netter
Rohen
Color Atlas of Human Anatomy
BIOC 1511 Biochemistry I 7.0
NO BOOK
FMED 1511 Clinical Correlates/ICM I 3.0
NO BOOK
HIST 1511 Histology/Embryology I 4.4
Moore
Sadler
OMED 1511 Osteopathic Medicine I 2.5
NO BOOK
PSYC 1511 Intro. to Human Behavior I 1.0
NO BOOK


I bought ALL of the books (and a ton more histology atlas') that are required for first year, if anyone wants to buy my books at 20% below bookstore rates then let me know. If you buy $500 dollars worth...I'll give you an additional 10%. Not a bad deal considering that a good number of my books are still in shrink-wrap and you won't have to pay taxes.

Here is a list that MDMiracle made last year, for the 2008 class. These are only first quarter books. I don't know if there are new editions, the will most likely stay the same though.

Larke28,

Like Pooh Chong I purchased more books than I needed. But I don't study in the library much. If you have the opportunity, you might want to stop by the library and look the books over before buying any. As I understand it the public can enter the library without a Student ID during business hours.

As for PDA software there are several ways to do it. You can buy a separate program at full retail, or you can:

1) Buy Stedman's hardback like I did that includes both an MS Word dictionary (nice to have) and a PDA dictionary ($50 savings) all for around $60. I not positive on the price because I think this is another one I got for joining one of the clubs.

2) Purchase a Medical Software CD off Ebay that includes a PDA dictionary. I can almost guarantee that these won't include the software license so you're at risk of getting pirated stuff unless you shop carefully.

I use the Stedman's and it works great.

As for PDAs, I wouldn't go overboard. The PDA dictionaries work on just about anything in the last few years from what I can tell. I purchased a used Dell X3 on Ebay and paid $190 because I thought the wireless would be useful but I've used once. Without wireless, a good used one shouldn't run more than $100. But your Clie is probably just fine.

Finally, on the MSI/MSII CD-ROMs, we can certainly make copies. I'm not sure if anyone has taken time to update the ones we got from the (now) MSIIIs with last year's tests. I'll ask Tucker, our class Prez, about it this weekend. As a suggestion, if anyone from your class could provide disk space on a web server (500MB to 1GB) someone from our class could update and maintain a directory of MSI files. That might help clear through the clutter since there are several versions of CDs going around filled with mostly old, non relevant stuff. And everyone would have access to the same info.

Hope that helps!

Thanks everyone for all the wonderful advice. Before another moment goes by, I just want to express my thanks and gratitude to all the upperclassmen for your efforts in advocating for local rotations. I think some ppl passed on AZCOM because of concerns about rotations, but I feel with the progress we're making, we're on our way to becoming an even more outstanding medical school and it's all because of the upperclassmen who paved the way. Thank-you all so very much!

Thanks for the advice pooh chong and jgrady.

For those of you interested in purchasing PDAs, you might want to wait until you get on campus this fall and see if the (technology)? club got up and running. It was the idea of one of our student council members last year and when he presented the idea to Dean McWilliams he was all for it. I know one of the ideas was to see if they could get some sort of a deal on a mass purchase or something, and possibly a good deal on some software. I have a medical dictionary on my PDA (Palm m515) and I use it on almost a daily basis. If you see a good deal on something, though, I wouldn't pass it up in hopes that you are going to get something less expensive at school. The club was still just an idea when school got out for the summer, and I wouldn't be suprised if it takes a little time before anything happens with it.

Also, if anybody has any specific questions about the housing across the street, (Arrowhead Highlands), let me know. It's a little more expensive than the campus housing, but in my opinion it is well worth it. It's also almost just as close as the on-campus housing.

For MS1 spring electives, what are some of the current students' experiences/recommendations?

For MS1 spring electives, what are some of the current students' experiences/recommendations?


To be honest, once you are choosing spring electives you just want something that will take the least amount of your time....this is the case for most people, but not everyone.

Most are very chill and laid back, and I would give an approval for Nutrition, TOPS, and Tropical Medicine. Do TOPS for sure, it will be a fantasic experience.

Hi all. Getting close to start... I can't wait!! My wife and I just got back yesterday from phoenix (Boy, it's HOT out there!!!). We got our housing secured around Tolleson. It's a 3-bedroom house we'll be renting that just finished building a couple of months ago. There are A LOT of houses that are being built over there! It's about 1/2 hour away from the campus but my wife will be working at ASU so this is like the half-way point for us. So if anyone prefers living in a house and don't mind commuting 30 mins, Tolleson has many houses available for rent.

Now, here are the questions.

1. When I filled out the financial aid apps, it went through SallieMae (was this for everyone or just me?). Does this mean that I am getting the money through SallieMae this coming year or can I still change the lender before school starts?

2. I'm planning to wait until I get the financial aid to purchase a laptop. I use both PC and Mac, but I prefer Macs. Is there a NEED to get a PC instead of Mac?

3. Has anyone received the award letter yet? I haven't received one and I feel that it's getting kind of late???

Thank you for any help you can give me.

Pooh Chong is right on; TOPS is great fun and the best way I know of to hone your history & physical (H&P) skills. You end up giving 10-20 physicals to High School kids in one day depending on how much time you spend running ECGs or watching Echocardiograms. The repitition really cemented the process and skills for me. And its not much time; two evenings of practice then one 5-hour shift.

I'm doing summer research so I took a Spring elective in research to get the summer project off and running quickly. Medical Spanish takes some time but I heard good feedback on it. The Anatomy prosections take a lot of time but also give you two credits and a grade that can help the 'ol GPA. One classmate did a bigtoe-to-thumb transplant on one side and labeled all the major vessels, nerves on the other. There were lots of cool clinical dissections like that.

Our Oncology Club should have an elective on pallative/chronic care by Spring. We are working with the Wellness Community to get a course started where you learn how to manage and run supports groups for cancer patients.

Here's the complete Spring list for the really curious (I = MSI, II = MSII only):

Advanced Gross Anatomy Dissection 1610 I
Advanced Readings in Human Nutrition 1611 I
Aerospace Medicine 1606 I or II
Early Clinical Experience 1600 I or II
EKG Interpretation 1615 II
End of Life Care 1613 I or II
Essential Procedures in Emergency Medicine 1623 II
Medical Spanish I 1604 I
Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine - Table Trainers 1603 II
Projects in Community Medicine 1620 I or II
Respiratory Disease 1625 I or II
Student Research 1601 I or II
TOPS (added 2/16/2005) 1620B II
Tropical Geographical Medicine 1614 I or II

Zarin79sa,

Can't help you much on the FinAid, but a notebook is definitely not needed. I would wait and get feel for the classes to see how a notebook would help you study given the limited time you have to study.

As a Pre-Med I imagined using a Tablet PC in classes wiht a stylus to edit and add notes directly onto PowerPoint presentations in class. The reality is that just about everyone takes notes on the handouts we get for every class. They are B&W so I go to most classes and use colored highlighters and pens to add details as needed.

The lectures are usually available after class on the Intranet as PDFs, so Macs or PCs work equally well. Seeing the lectures in color can be helpful, but I wouldn't buy a notebook just for that.

A lot of MSII buy notebooks for the USMLE and COMLEX question banks. I just purchased one last quarter for research; an inexpensive and light Dell that I can carry in my backpack when I ride to campus. Like other classmates I've talked to, I had a hard time deciding whether to read through lecture notes three times or write my own outlike of the lectures leaving only enough time to get through the notes twice. I still can't decide which is more effective for me.

So, there's no rush and the way pricing works (I'm a former tech Product Manager) you can be sure that improved models at cheaper price points will be released around Xmas.

Hi all. Getting close to start... I can't wait!! My wife and I just got back yesterday from phoenix (Boy, it's HOT out there!!!).


It's not even that hot for Phoenix standards at all! I went golfing about two to three weeks ago...it was 112. It will be getting warmer...and warmer....and warmer.

About the laptop, the vast majority don't use a laptop enough to just warrent the purchase of one. I may probably by the only exception. All the powerpoint files are available on the internet (as either PPT or PDF files), and I only go through the lectures on my laptop. Very rarely do I ever use the packets, I prefer seeing the color diagrams, color charts, and sometimes there are details that are lost when the slides are squeezed four to a page. I must also admit that I can probably only do this because I don't take notes and add anything during lecture to my notepackets (when I went to class). But to each their own...so it may be better to wait until you start to figure out what best suits your needs. While there are some things that would benefit everyoen student regardless....there are others things/factors that are more beneficial to individual students.

Thank you guys for your advise. I guess I can save some money for now and wait until couple weeks into school to decide whether I should get a new laptop or not. Or, if I want to go the cheaper way, I could consider getting a PDA instead and forget about carrying a big bulk :).

Zarin79sa,

Several classmates I know of use PDAs for outlining lectures. I tried it for about a quarter with my little Dell X3 and a snap-on keyboard I purchased off Ebay for $21. It worked ok. My handwriting is bad and I prefer typing for hours vs. writing so it was an improvement. But I had to finish the notes, then format them on my PC at home and then print them out so I could see more than an 1/8 of the screen at one time.

It ended up being a bit of a hassle for me and took extra time that I frequently just didn't have. OK, mostly I just like being able to put the fancy science and math characters not available on PDAs directly into my notes ;)

Hello future classmates!
Does anyone know when azcom is supposed to release the new tuition cost for 05/06? :thumbdown

It went up 7%.

Yes, only AZCOM was not willing to pay local hospitals for rotations. That is why it is ridiculous when AZCOM faculty says "we tried to pay them money but they did not want our $$$$$ because U of A said no".

Are you referring to a specific rotation?

X

Hi Everyone,

I have a friend who just bought a beautiful house out in Laveen (south Phoenix), and she's looking to rent it out. It's a 3 bedroom, 2.5 bath, not too far from campus. I was going to rent from her, but I decided to stay in California for school. If you know a better place to post this information or if you're interested in renting it, please PM me. Here are links to the information she posted on craigslist and yahoo:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/apa/75724847.html
http://realestate.yahoo.com/display/rentals?ct_hft=detailnp&cc=rentals&cr=&cids=rentals-1117237589-565765&tot=1&rpre=0&intl=us

Good luck with school and congrats!

Are you referring to the money AZCOM had set aside for Maricopa County Hosp. rotations, but MWU diverted it to start the AZPOD program?

That is quite an accusation. Do you have proof? I would be very interested to know if this is opinion or fact.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I just wanted to say hello to my upcoming class. I elected to do the 5 year plan last fall so I will be graduating with the class of 2009 and I will be in anatomy with all of you. I think you will love AZCOM; I absolutely do. If you can't already tell, the people at AZCOM is what makes it great. They are very supportive and it's not like a gunner mentality at all at AZCOM. I loved my class and I hope I can grow and be a part of your class as well.

Okay, regarding the living situation, I'm at San Prado. Everyone talks about Arrowhead Highlands and you don't hear much about San Prado. The truth is people at San Prado hate the people at Arrowhead Highlands and vice versa. We have an annual football game called the grudge match....and okay I'm kidding. San Prado opened last August (I believe I was their 5 resident) and while some things were shaky at the beginning like my soap dish falling off and hitting my foot in the shower, they took care of those initial problems. The apartments are smaller but the amenities and finishing is nicer. I also love our pool and gym. Everything is just more new about San Prado but it is smaller like others have mentioned. The best thing about San Prado is that if you like to sleep in like I do (yes, I was ripped on all year for having "bed head"), you can make it to Ocotillo E in 4 minutes from your door to your seat in Ocotillo E no not the parking lot...the actual classroom where you will take your exams. Yes, I actually timed it. This was great right before exams, because I would leave my place 5-10 minutes before the exam and be in class. Slacker reasons aside, I think you will like the place for it's style, small size and feeling of newness.

Take care guys and I will see you in the Fall. If you have questions, PM me. My one piece of advice is to have a lot of fun during orientation week and the week after. Go out to Tempe and Scottsdale, party, fish, hike, spend time with your family, go to McDuffys, Sedona etc.. That's what I'm doing this year which I didn't take advantage of last year. In fact, I was thinking of organizing a trip to Vegas.. if anyone is interested, PM me :laugh:

That is quite an accusation. Do you have proof? I would be very interested to know if this is opinion or fact.


My post was a question. Neither an opinion, fact, nor accusation.

If you are talking about "gooooobers" post, ask around, I have no knowledge of that...

Getting back to the topic at hand, I just wanted to say hello to my upcoming class. I elected to do the 5 year plan last fall so I will be graduating with the class of 2009 and I will be in anatomy with all of you. I think you will love AZCOM; I absolutely do. If you can't already tell, the people at AZCOM is what makes it great. They are very supportive and it's not like a gunner mentality at all at AZCOM. I loved my class and I hope I can grow and be a part of your class as well.

Okay, regarding the living situation, I'm at San Prado. Everyone talks about Arrowhead Highlands and you don't hear much about San Prado. The truth is people at San Prado hate the people at Arrowhead Highlands and vice versa. We have an annual football game called the grudge match....and okay I'm kidding. San Prado opened last August (I believe I was their 5 resident) and while some things were shaky at the beginning like my soap dish falling off and hitting my foot in the shower, they took care of those initial problems. The apartments are smaller but the amenities and finishing is nicer. I also love our pool and gym. Everything is just more new about San Prado but it is smaller like others have mentioned. The best thing about San Prado is that if you like to sleep in like I do (yes, I was ripped on all year for having "bed head"), you can make it to Ocotillo E in 4 minutes from your door to your seat in Ocotillo E no not the parking lot...the actual classroom where you will take your exams. Yes, I actually timed it. This was great right before exams, because I would leave my place 5-10 minutes before the exam and be in class. Slacker reasons aside, I think you will like the place for it's style, small size and feeling of newness.

Take care guys and I will see you in the Fall. If you have questions, PM me. My one piece of advice is to have a lot of fun during orientation week and the week after. Go out to Tempe and Scottsdale, party, fish, hike, spend time with your family, go to McDuffys, Sedona etc.. That's what I'm doing this year which I didn't take advantage of last year. In fact, I was thinking of organizing a trip to Vegas.. if anyone is interested, PM me :laugh:

I pray to GOD that you had better reasons for taking the 5 year route than going out to Tempe, Scottsdale, partying, fishing, hiking, etc.....

The voluntary deceleration is one of the worst ideas I've ever been witness to. Sorry, but you've struck a royal nerve with me on this topic. I know of people who experienced major life-changing events (deaths in immediate family, chronic disease diagnoses, divorce, etc) who graduated in four....just bothers me to see people slide in order to have more fun....

I pray to GOD that you had better reasons for taking the 5 year route than going out to Tempe, Scottsdale, partying, fishing, hiking, etc.....

The voluntary deceleration is one of the worst ideas I've ever been witness to. Sorry, but you've struck a royal nerve with me on this topic. I know of people who experienced major life-changing events (deaths in immediate family, chronic disease diagnoses, divorce, etc) who graduated in four....just bothers me to see people slide in order to have more fun....

It's cool, I had sincere reasons related to family, and I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I did this for the purpose of partying which is not the reason. And I know others who had much more dire circumstances pull it off in 4 years. To those people, I have much respect for them but unfortunately I couldn't do the same. I don't recommend the 5 year plan but for some, it's a necessity. BTW, I have read many of your posts and you tell it like it is. I respect that. Also, I grew up a Sooner fan and am from OK originally. I was there when Jamel Holloway and the gang were running the wishbone. Boomer Sooner!

That's cool....that's what the program is meant for.

I know people who started in my class that just wanted extra time to study (or drink, or do whatever...)--you really have to question those people's preparation and reasoning for attending school.

Med school isn't supposed to be easy...just taking the slower route to make it easier makes me question a person's dedication--family issues, health issues, unexpected changes in life situation, etc...are different. That's all.

Glad to see you have good taste in football. Favorite moment in OU history--big guy that died from Miami (what the HELL was his name? Jerome something? Was it Jerome Brown?) breaking Aikman's ankle. Without that moment, no national title in 85.

[QUOTE=Zarin79sa]
3. Has anyone received the award letter yet? I haven't received one and I feel that it's getting kind of late???
[QUOTE]

I think it says somewhere in the AZCOM literature that MS1 letters go out in July (seems really late, I know). I know that I'm borrowing every bit of it, but it will still be nice to see the numbers on paper saying "yes, you really do get to borrow [insert absurd amount of money here]" to pay for one year of med school.

Congrats to the Class of 2007 for finishing COMLEX I!

Just think 2009ers, in one year you'll be relaxing and reminising about the great, hard year you had as an AZCOM MSI while being as stinking jealous of my class as I am of the 2009ers right now for getting through Boards and didactics! :laugh:

Upperclassmen give us hope...

I pray to GOD that you had better reasons for taking the 5 year route than going out to Tempe, Scottsdale, partying, fishing, hiking, etc.....

The voluntary deceleration is one of the worst ideas I've ever been witness to. Sorry, but you've struck a royal nerve with me on this topic. I know of people who experienced major life-changing events (deaths in immediate family, chronic disease diagnoses, divorce, etc) who graduated in four....just bothers me to see people slide in order to have more fun....

Who are you to judge this person, and who appointed you supreme arbiter of med school such that he should have to justify his decision to go the 5 year plan to you or anyone else! I know many people who have taken that particular route for a variety of reasons (yes, some of them so that they could have a life other than med school) none of which have anything to do with you, me or anyone else. Go through the experience in whatever way suits you best and let others do the same.

Who are you to judge this person, and who appointed you supreme arbiter of med school such that he should have to justify his decision to go the 5 year plan to you or anyone else! I know many people who have taken that particular route for a variety of reasons (yes, some of them so that they could have a life other than med school) none of which have anything to do with you, me or anyone else. Go through the experience in whatever way suits you best and let others do the same.

I'm a graduate of the school that allows this sham. I'm also one of the people to whom I referred in my post.

It makes me sad to see MY SCHOOL allow people to take the easy road just because med school is hard. If you read my second post, there ARE justifications for taking 5 years--partying, hiking, and "going to Scottsdale" don't make that cut.

I'm a graduate of the school that allows this sham. I'm also one of the people to whom I referred in my post.

It makes me sad to see MY SCHOOL allow people to take the easy road just because med school is hard. If you read my second post, there ARE justifications for taking 5 years--partying, hiking, and "going to Scottsdale" don't make that cut.

The fact that you graduated is of no persuasion and what you believe "doesn't make the cut" isn't binding on anyone else. Live and let live.

MS-I's, no questions? Ignore the sideshow from the mosh pit and ask away...

Btw, in case you just arrived and got a chill, things are looking up. This weeks weather forecast just gets better and better ;)

M Sunny 103
T Sunny 108
W Sunny 107
Th Sunny 107
F Sunny 106

Survival tips until school starts: AC, H2O, sunglasses and sunscreen. Never leave home without them!

P.S. AZ should really be called the state of the mister. Where else do people drink coffee in 105+ degree heat outside of a Starbucks and under a sprinkler? And even their textbooks stay dry!!

What lenders do you suggest for private loans? I was looking at Access and Northstar. I went with Midwestern for Stafford. What's everyone else doing?

Also when are you guys all making the move to Glendale? I'll be out there late July/early August. We should all get together and do something before orientation and classes start.

Anybody know the earliest I can move in to student housing? I seem to remember Jose saying the 20th, but I was hoping earlier....

Thanks to all for the posts - very useful!

Can't wait for school to start (?!!)

What lenders do you suggest for private loans? I was looking at Access and Northstar. I went with Midwestern for Stafford. What's everyone else doing?


I just picked up an application on campus for Sallie Mae's Medloan today after getting a good recommendation on it.

I believe I used Northstar last year and had no problems.

Hi everyone! I can't wait until August to meet everyone and begin school. I graduated in 2003 from UCSB and can't wait to be around students again. What is everyone doing now? I feel like I should be doing something to get prepared, but it seems like I just have to wait until the fin aid and housing letters arrive.
mx5red: If you want to move in earlier, call Jose and tell him when. The official move in date is the 20th but you have an option to move in earlier if I remember correctly.
I'm going to be moving in on the 20th. So don't have too much fun without me before the 20th.
About private loans, do you guys think it will be a bad idea to wait until we get the letter? I want to wait until I see that breakdown to see exactly how much.
Also, random question for the upperclassman: my cousin is going to be getting married Labor Day weekend. Do you think it is a bad idea if I leave for that weekend? I don't want to miss out on anything. I don't have to go, but it would be nice. Thanks for your input!! See you soon!!!!

Also, random question for the upperclassman: my cousin is going to be getting married Labor Day weekend. Do you think it is a bad idea if I leave for that weekend? I don't want to miss out on anything. I don't have to go, but it would be nice. Thanks for your input!! See you soon!!!!

I can't remember which week Labour Day falls on. The first weekend of school is the best for taking a trip. You'll need to bring along books and study, but you're still in the ramp-up phase. If I remember correctly, Dr. Walter's first anatomy test is the second Monday, at 8 or 9am.

Histo was totally new to me, so I needed about 15 hours of studying for that first test just to stare at Histo atlases and get my bearings. If you're in a similar situation, you might want to take that into consideration before traveling on a test weekend.

non-academic related: what's the best cell phone service out in AZ? I currently have Sprint, which sucks here in New England, but will stay with it if the reception is good out there. (I have recurring nightmares about getting lost and car breaking down in the middle of the desert with a cell phone but no reception)

non-academic related: what's the best cell phone service out in AZ? I currently have Sprint, which sucks here in New England, but will stay with it if the reception is good out there. (I have recurring nightmares about getting lost and car breaking down in the middle of the desert with a cell phone but no reception)
I have Verizon and other than a couple of dropped calls inside of my apartment I haven't had any problems with it. I know a couple of people who had service through other providers but when their contracts were up they switched to Verizon. I've actually always had Verizon, though, so I don't know any of the pros or cons of any of the other providers.

Also, random question for the upperclassman: my cousin is going to be getting married Labor Day weekend. Do you think it is a bad idea if I leave for that weekend? I don't want to miss out on anything. I don't have to go, but it would be nice. Thanks for your input!! See you soon!!!!
I think you will be fine leaving for the weekend as long as you know what you've got coming up the following week. I actually left for two or three different weekends during the year, and since I knew that I would be gone I made sure I was all cought up before I left. I'm sure I would have done a little better on those tests if I had stayed home all weekend and studied, but hey, you can't let school rule your life. (Actually, it will if you let it.) I'd say go and have fun.

If you're in a similar situation, you might want to take that into consideration before traveling on a test weekend.
jgrady makes a good point here, but actually just about every weekend is a test weekend. It would be little more accurate to say that you should take into consideration which test you have the following monday. (Some are harder than others.)

Just got the financial aid package by email today. yowsers...sticker shock all over again! :eek: (is it true that MWU does not offer ANY amount of grants for the DO program?) Noticed the estimate for health insurance was over $2300 for the year and I'm assuming that it is based on the school insurance? I went to www.ehealthinsurance.com and the yearly amount for all of the plans were much lower than $2300. So what is the quality of insurance (health, vision, dental..anything else?) offered by MWU? (coverage, benefits, deductibles, etc) And how much does it actually cost? anyone have the MWU insurance or maybe someone who went with another insurance company can offer some insight on which they picked and why?

Also, is anyone selling their furniture? (desk, bookcase, chair, etc...)

Just got the financial aid package by email today. yowsers...sticker shock all over again! :eek: (is it true that MWU does not offer ANY amount of grants for the DO program?) Noticed the estimate for health insurance was over $2300 for the year and I'm assuming that it is based on the school insurance? I went to www.ehealthinsurance.com and the yearly amount for all of the plans were much lower than $2300. So what is the quality of insurance (health, vision, dental..anything else?) offered by MWU? (coverage, benefits, deductibles, etc) And how much does it actually cost? anyone have the MWU insurance or maybe someone who went with another insurance company can offer some insight on which they picked and why?

Also, is anyone selling their furniture? (desk, bookcase, chair, etc...)

Can't help on insurance or furniture. On the financial aspect, you might to look into work study. There some easy jobs you might be interested in such as the A/V person. You get paid for going to lecture! Also, there are summer jobs on campus and some club events that pay work study (for example H.O.M.E.). I don't know of any MWU grants, but your state may offer them, or even your state Osteopathic organization. Now is probably a good time to start looking around.

Just got the financial aid package by email today. yowsers...sticker shock all over again! :eek: (is it true that MWU does not offer ANY amount of grants for the DO program?) Noticed the estimate for health insurance was over $2300 for the year and I'm assuming that it is based on the school insurance? I went to www.ehealthinsurance.com and the yearly amount for all of the plans were much lower than $2300. So what is the quality of insurance (health, vision, dental..anything else?) offered by MWU? (coverage, benefits, deductibles, etc) And how much does it actually cost? anyone have the MWU insurance or maybe someone who went with another insurance company can offer some insight on which they picked and why?

grants aren't given for graduate programs, just undergraduate.

that is a good website to go to for insurance ideas. I called student services to find out about mwu's insurance and they gave me a website to check out that had all the info (ded, etc) for last year's. this years wasn't ready yet. it might be now. I can't seem to find my sticky note with it now, but call them and get the website. for other insurances, you might want to check out blue cross. i live in california now and i did the blue cross of ca 40 ppo...it still works out in arizona, but there is no deductible, so each time you see a doctor you pay 40 copay and then 40% for other stuff. i don't get sick much, so it made more sense for me than paying 100% until i met the deductible, if i even met it at all. and it had a fairly low premium per month. i wouldn't mess with an hmo cause you could be moving around a lot 3rd and 4th year.

i haven't gotten my financial letter yet, but that $2300 figure might include expenses besides the monthly premium such as your copays, etc.

the lady at student services also said that the insurance company that you pick on your own should compare to their's. she said blue cross is generally pretty good, but be careful of what you choose because it might not be acceptable to them. don't know if they would actually make you change, but better to be careful....see you in august!

To the AZCOMers...If you still had your health insurance and car insurance paid from the outside, and all you had was the max alloted $$$ in the budget, is it feasible to pay like $760/mo for rent, + utilities? I want to live close (i.e. Arrowhead Highlands if I get in for next yr!) so gas will be minimal I think; I've always managed to eat fairly cheap ($50-75/wk)...Just curious how ya'll do it :)

What are some of the things you have done/plan to do during the summer after first year? Anyone who participated in the DOCARE program care :) to share their experiences?

To the AZCOMers...If you still had your health insurance and car insurance paid from the outside, and all you had was the max alloted $$$ in the budget, is it feasible to pay like $760/mo for rent, + utilities? I want to live close (i.e. Arrowhead Highlands if I get in for next yr!) so gas will be minimal I think; I've always managed to eat fairly cheap ($50-75/wk)...Just curious how ya'll do it :)

I'm not sure about the exact situation that you are describing, but as far as my living arrangements go, the max budget is more than enough to live on. With my loan/budget I paid my own car and health insurance (school's plan), and lived within walking distance of campus (Sagestone Apartments) without taking out my maximum allotment. So it can be done from my experience.

The Sagestone apartments are right down the block from the Arrowhead Highlands (now renamed San Lagos at Arrowhead Highlands) and cost slightly less. Although the living arrangements aren't quite as fancy as the San Lagos apts, these are quite nice by my standards.

Right, I was just looking at the AZCOM budget somewhere and so assume you didn't have to pay your own health or car insurance the first year, was wondering how reasonable it would be to live in a place w/ rent of 700+. Thanks for the reply and I want to check out those apts you mentioned!

Right, I was just looking at the AZCOM budget somewhere and so assume you didn't have to pay your own health or car insurance the first year, was wondering how reasonable it would be to live in a place w/ rent of 700+. Thanks for the reply and I want to check out those apts you mentioned!

It could be tough based on what you are seeking. Arrowhead Highlands and San Prado (my home) charge rent alone in excess of $750 per month for a single bedroom and that is assuming you sign some long term deal. (I signed a 16 month lease). Basic digital cable is around $50 and high speed internet access is $40 and that doesn't include your modem rental which is another $15 if you don't own a cable modem. Water is generally $20 and your electric bill is generally from $60 to $90 depending on how cold you like your apartment. :)

Based on what you are seeking, my advice would be to explore the apartments on campus because they cover your water, cable and high speed internet access. I could be wrong and those amenities may have changed but if you are trying to live alone and close to school, the apartments on campus may be your best option. And in hindsight, I wish I would have lived on campus during first year, because many MS1's live on campus and it's easier to get to know your fellow classmates in addition to meeting up for class projects (like your Biochem and Physiology powerpoint presentation projects).

Whatever you do, make sure you do your homework and take everyone's advice including my own with a grain of salt. Do your homework because you can find great deals. I read SDN a lot last year and was discouraged because some people made it seem like certain situations were impossible (like finding a home or condo near campus for under or near 200K). These people were generally right and were not trying to lead students astray but you can get lucky if you do a lot of searching. A lot of students were fortunate and got some great deals. Sorry didn't mean to ramble...

So my med school friends have been telling me all along that the amount of info you're presented with is like trying to drink water from a fire hydrant. And then there are those who said they were practically failing until they "learned how to study." What does all of this mean exactly? Is there a different way I should be studying when it comes to med school? What are some of the changes the upperclassmen have made to help you focus/study better? And what are some of the things you wish you had known/done differently?

(can you sense the nervousness starting to kick in? :scared: )

(can you sense the nervousness starting to kick in? :scared: )

It's the Olympics of studying and you're your own coach. Feel any better? ;)

First year starts a little slow, meaning they give you some time to experiment with study times, locations, partners, books, caffeine intake, sleep deprivation, etc.

Use this time wisely and try a few combinations. Second quarter you have Phys on top of Biochem and Gross/Histo/Embryo. We are all individuals with different wiring so while I share what has worked for me, this advice may be of no value to you. With that in mind, I found I needed to study lecture notes at least twice through very focused (3 hrs studying per hr of lecture) before group study was any benefit. So I didn't have enough time to study in groups very often. More important for me was knowing who I could ask questions of when they came up over the weekend and the Profs had all left for the weekend.

My biggest failing IMO was falling into the trap of studying test to test. I gave up previewing lectures beforehand or reviewing them until 3-4 days before the test. It's easy to fall into this routine because there's always another test around the corner. And you need a break once in awhile.

Hope that helps!

Does anyone have any suggestions for student insurance plans aside from the one the school offers? My current insurance expires at the end of this month and I want to make sure I can find a plan cheaper than the one Midwestern offers.

Hi everyone! I saw the class of 2008 have their own Yahoo conference (not sure if it's AZCOM or CCOM). I thought it would be helpful to have our own class conference as well. To join, send an email from your MWU account (to verify you're a student) to AZCOM2009-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

hey guys, i am in the process of applying for osteo school, and i was wondering what you guys got into AZCOM with ...location of undergrad/state of residence/ gpa/mcat..

im just really curious because AZCOM is one of my top choices..but i dont know if i can get in..please help..thx alot..PM Me if u dont mind..or reply to this msg

So my med school friends have been telling me all along that the amount of info you're presented with is like trying to drink water from a fire hydrant. And then there are those who said they were practically failing until they "learned how to study." What does all of this mean exactly? Is there a different way I should be studying when it comes to med school? What are some of the changes the upperclassmen have made to help you focus/study better? And what are some of the things you wish you had known/done differently?

(can you sense the nervousness starting to kick in? :scared: )
My advice, at least for the first little while, is to just study a lot. During the first two quarters my study time was from 6:30 in the morning until 11:00 at night, only taking time out for class, lunch, and dinner. By the spring quarter I had figured things out a little better (which was fortunate because my wife had our second baby) and I was able to cut back a little bit and still maintain my grades. You'll learn to pick things out of the notes and lectures that the professors think are more important than others and are more likely to test on. The easy thing for us to say is that you will find out soon enough. I know that sucks to hear, but just relax, as long as you take school serious you will generally be OK.

Does anyone currently living in Glendale recommend any good banks for checking/saving. I have Bank of America, but am kinda sick of all their fees.
Is there a bank close to the school?

Any idea how much of a lag financial takes after completing all the loan FAFSA crap?

Does anyone currently living in Glendale recommend any good banks for checking/saving. I have Bank of America, but am kinda sick of all their fees.
Is there a bank close to the school?

Any idea how much of a lag financial takes after completing all the loan FAFSA crap?
They just built (or are still building) a BankOne/Chase just a block or two down the road from the school, and there's a Wells Fargo just across the freeway. I don't know about Wells Fargo and fees, but I bank with BankOne and as far as I know I don't pay any fees.

Does anyone currently living in Glendale recommend any good banks for checking/saving. I have Bank of America, but am kinda sick of all their fees.
Is there a bank close to the school?

Any idea how much of a lag financial takes after completing all the loan FAFSA crap?

That's funny that you mention that. I'm with Bank of America as well and I got them to drop their maintenance fees on my accounts just recently. How long have you been with B of A? I would try getting them to drop those fees first before you switch. I didn't do this over the phone. I went to the bank and spoke to someone in person. I told them the same thing you did. I told them I was considering switching because of these stupid fees. (well I didn't say it like that but you get the idea)

But if you must switch, there is also a brand new Compass bank they finished building on the Southwest corner of 67th avenue and the 101 in the shopping area that contains AJ's grocery, Pei Wei and North restaraunts.

To current students,

How many of you enrolled in the MWU plan and how many looked elsewhere? Using www.ehealthinsurance.com I found a student plan offered by Fortis with a $500 deductible for around $1140 per year as compared to the almost $2200 a year school plan. Has anyone used the Fortis plan? If so did it provide comprable care to the MWU Chickering group plan?

For upcoming 1st and 2nd years, I have some books that I am selling that you might want to check out. For 2nd years, I highly recommend looking at the NMS book by Lazo. It is a high yield question book for clinical correlates during 2nd year. Check out the links and PM me if you are interested!

http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y04Y0922330Y8688504
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y4617726Y4226467
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y03Y5631164Y1879083
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y01Y0441475Y0393326
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http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y01Y5800749Y8572280
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y5489626Y1217980

Fozzy40

I am also looking into alternatives to the Chickering plan, and I have found the health insurance offered by AMSA appears to be pretty good. They offer two plans (Plan 1 and Plan 2) with $250 and $200 deductibles, respectively. Their quarterly premiums, if you're under 30, are $254 and $429; $388 and $686 if you are over thirty (I think these prices apply only if you are an AMSA member). Three out of four of these premium numbers beats $555! For more info. I think the website is StudentResources.com (click on 'AMSA' on the drop-down menu, or call (800) 231-2672 for more info. If I'm off base on anything or if anyone finds out more, please let me know.

Hope this helps.

By the way, this is my first ever post to SDN, and I'm liking it.

Tom Acton
Soon-to-be MSI

Does anyone have any suggestions for student insurance plans aside from the one the school offers? My current insurance expires at the end of this month and I want to make sure I can find a plan cheaper than the one Midwestern offers.

I was exactly in this spot a year ago, and I'll tell you what worked well for me:
Go ahead and research plans and making yourself a little list showing deductible/copay/premium/max payout, etc for each of the plans you find that look promising. Then, either call student services and ask them about the details of the school's coverage or wait till orientation when you get the little presentation so that you can compare your plans to the school's plan.

The key here is that the school will require you to have "comparable" coverage to what they are providing, or they will not accept your plan. There are a variety of reasons for this, all of which they will tell you at orientation, but mainly its important because many of the cheaper plans out there do not provide the depth of coverage that they consider to be adequate.

In the end, I ended up going with the school's coverage until my husband got a job with benefits/insurance that was even better than the school's and I switched at the end of the 2nd quarter.

Thanks for the info. I'll call student services today and see if some of these alternative plans are "comparable" to the school's. I just can't see paying $2200 per year for health insurance.

For upcoming 1st years or anyone looking for furniture...I have a dresser, TV stand and kitchen table from IKEA that I'm trying to get rid of. PM if you're interested.

rkamp

So my med school friends have been telling me all along that the amount of info you're presented with is like trying to drink water from a fire hydrant. And then there are those who said they were practically failing until they "learned how to study." What does all of this mean exactly? Is there a different way I should be studying when it comes to med school? What are some of the changes the upperclassmen have made to help you focus/study better? And what are some of the things you wish you had known/done differently?

(can you sense the nervousness starting to kick in? :scared: )

Study the same way you did in undergrad. It worked to get you there, it will work to keep you there.

I tried to be anal compulsive and study every day, went to every class, study right after lecture--all the crap that anal people do. After the first round of tests, I had some of the worst grades I'd ever seen. My response? Back to the bar, the golf course. Screw going to class. Study when I wanted to. From that point on I did fine.

Summary: If you go to every class in undergrad, and you study 30 minutes every day right after lecture, etc.....keep that up. If you crammed all through undergrad, cram. Just remember cramming in med school will take longer....

I've heard that the school will really be pushing everyone to sign on with the university's insurance plan at orientation (something about more people = cheaper premiums). Anyway I don't want to pay anywhere close to 550 per quarter for health insurance that I probably won't even use. Does anyone out there have SOMA, AMSA, or Bluecross/Blueshield? Are any of these plans good enough for MWU standards? What is the cheapest health care plan one can get by with that still passes muster with the school? Thanks for any info!

anyone?

The NMS USMLE Question book is still up for sale along with other books. Many questions for clinical correlates in 2nd year are from this book. Feel free to checkout the other links!

http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y04Y0922330Y8688504
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y4617726Y4226467
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y03Y5631164Y1879083
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y01Y0441475Y0393326
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y5489626Y1217980
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http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y4920384Y3723821

I was planning on getting a new cell phone and considering a PDA-phone like a Palm Treo. Do any current students have one and would recommend me getting one for running medical software and staying organized? Also, what software would you recommend getting? Thanks.

I was planning on getting a new cell phone and considering a PDA-phone like a Palm Treo. Do any current students have one and would recommend me getting one for running medical software and staying organized? Also, what software would you recommend getting? Thanks.

My wife is on her second Treo. I looked at getting one for myself but prefer the larger screens of the dedicated PDAs. Palms are great. I purchased a used Pocket PC on Ebay because I thought the wireless would be useful. Turned out to be a waste, and now Palm has the software graffiti freeing up the whole screen for medical software. So it's a toss up.

Btw, the newer Treos have high resolution screens (320 x 320) so if you decide to get one, go with the 610 or 650, not the 600s.

was wondering what the difference is with the regular apt and the ones with the "dishwasher & added upgrades" --not sure what kind of upgrades they're talking about?

Harrison's Internal Medicine 15th Edition
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y03Y0588530Y4780167

Also, I have some other items for sale:

-sofa with futon
-breakfast table with stools
-large study desk
-2 folding chairs
-2 microwaves
-HP Deskjet 612C deskjet
-vacuum cleaner
-bed

Please PM me if you are interested in any of the items.

I was wondering if anyone has received the financial aid award letter yet. I thought it was suppossed to come in June and I thought I recalled someone earlier in the thread mentioning they received it already. Just curious because I haven't received mine yet and I'm starting to worry a bit. Thanks.

My award letter was sent to the MWU e-mail account last Thursday. I would assume that from now through the middle of the month, award letters should be sent to '09ers. Now that I have recieved the initial loan amounts, I am planning to take out a private loan to cover the rest. For those loans I am considering CitiAssist,Medloan, and THE loan. Does anyone who took out private loans recommend any of these lenders? They all seem pretty comparable from what I can tell.

I was wondering if anyone has received the financial aid award letter yet. I thought it was suppossed to come in June and I thought I recalled someone earlier in the thread mentioning they received it already. Just curious because I haven't received mine yet and I'm starting to worry a bit. Thanks.

Talked to Financial Aid yesterday (7/5/05) . Letters will be sent out to MWU e-mails these next 2 weeks. :cool:

I also just received my award letter via e-mail this morning. And I'll be looking at private loans from T.H.E. whom I used last year. I can't compare them to anyone else, but I'm happy with T.H.E. (http://www.northstar.org/) so far.

Just posted a message on the MWU team forums. :idea:
We gotta have a party the wknd before orientation! I know a few will be moving in this wknd, but drop your stuff and hang out for a bit. Im thinking the evening of the 20th or 21st (Sat, Sun?) Thought it would be nice to meet outside of school, and possibly get to know people before we get zombitized.
HUGE FREAKIN PROBLEM!! WE NEED A HOUSE!! my little 1bdrm apt will hardly suffice. Any takers? As a backup, we could rent out Arrowhead or San Prado, maybe even the campus housing clubhouse but that costs $$. A house sounds like way more fun!
If peeps are interested or have any input RSVP to this!

I'll be arriving in Glendale either the night of the 20th or the morning of the 21st. So I vote for having the party on the Sunday night (21st). As far as a house to host the party goes.....I don't think the house I'm moving into will be big enough. But lets continue to ask around and hopefully we can find a good place. It should be a blast and I look forward to meeting everyone!

I also just received my award letter via e-mail this morning. And I'll be looking at private loans from T.H.E. whom I used last year. I can't compare them to anyone else, but I'm happy with T.H.E. (http://www.northstar.org/) so far.

Those T.H.E loans look pretty good and it's cool they don't charge any fees. I'm just curious to know if repayment can start after residency. They seem to be the best private loans I've seen thus far.

As a suggestion you might to ask Student Services about using the gazeebo on campus. It's got misters and a large B-que. The price has got to be cheap if not free. The downside is that the alcohol policy on campus is pretty strict and there's not a lot of things for kids to do if it's a family event.

I think we should have it on Sunday the 21st. I think most people are moving in on the 20th. And I don't know about everyone else, but I would like to settle in a little and plus I am having my family help me move out so that gives time for them to catch their plane home. Does it really cost money to do something in the on campus housing main room? That sucks. With all the money we give them, you would think it shouldn't cost any money. Does anyone know if the school sponsers any evening get-together during orientation? I remember my undergrad housing did. In any case, I'm really looking forward to meeting everyone. I can't believe it is almost August.
See you soon, Audrey

Ok the evening of the 21st it is. I dont think reserving anything through the school costs money, but Id have to check into it. I still think using the campus housing club house or the schools facility should be a last resort. The alcohol issue does arise if we are on campus. Hey, while were on the subject, how many kegs do you think we'll need? :laugh:
I still think we should find a house so the get together can stay a bit more laid back and people can be a bit more lenient in there arrivals.

OK, I know threes a bunch of peeps here with houses! I saw your posts for roommates! Man up (or Women up) and take one for the team! Its hard to get an idea of how many might show, but by the looks of it now Id say under 30 at best. If word gets out to the 08ers it could be much worse? (That’s right, the 08ers keep their noses high, but guess who comes knockin when there’s a party? :D joking!)

Does anyone know if the school sponsers any evening get-together during orientation? I remember my undergrad housing did. In any case, I'm really looking forward to meeting everyone. I can't believe it is almost August.
See you soon, Audrey
Yes, the school does have a first year BBQ a day or two before your first day. I think ours was sunday evening, the night before orientation began. It'll be just for the first years, though, but it kind of sounds like that's how you want it ;) . During the first week or two, there will actually be more school BBQ's than you'll probably care to go to. Trust me, there will be plenty of opportunities to get together. I think we actually had a couple of different parties at students' houses during the first week or two. It seems like there's about three weeks or so until your first big anatomy test, then everybody starts to get a little more serious.

By the way, just in case any of you didn't already know it your block schedules are posted on the registrar's page. You can get to it here http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/administrative/Registrar/regAZ.htm It kind of helps knowing what you can expect on a day to day basis.

I'm going to be moving out of on-campus housing by this Saturday and I need to get rid of some stuff. The big items I have are:

-full size futon mattress with frame
-32" TV
-Queen Size mattress and springs

I also have small household items that you may need i.e. iron, ironing board...etc. If you are interested in any of these times please PM me.

fozzy40

Let's do it for sure! We've gotta live it up a little before school starts, plus I can't wait to meet all of my classmates! I'm in, so keep me posted if you find somewhere. I'd offer my place but I'm living on campus :( so that's probably a no go! Anyway, can't wait!

For the students graduating in the AZCOM class of 2009, a Friendster profile has been set up for the class. A lot of medical school classes are doing this now. It's like an on-line yearbook of the class.

If you are a member of the class of 2009 and you want to join, you can sign up in one of three ways.

1. If you already have a friendster account, look up AZCOM and invite it as your friend.

2. If you don't have an account on friendster but would like to be on there, e-mail azcom2009@yahoo.com. I will send an invitation to the e-maill address from which you write to me.


3. Go to www.friendster.com, register and then look up AZCOM in the search function. Invite AZCOM as your friend.

Hi AZCOM 2009ers,
I am moving out of a house about 5 minutes from school next month 18th. That may be too late for many of you. It is a 3/2 house, 2 car garage, fenced yd (dirt). It worked well for my family at $820/month. PM me if you want the contact info. I have no gain in the deal. We are moving to a friend's house. Just thought if anyone is looking for a decent house, it is worth checking out. I was happy there.

Out,
B (Class of 2008)

Hello all.
I've just recently been asked to become a member of the 2009 class, and have accepted the invite. So, is there anyone out there that is looking for a roommate? I have secured a one bedroom apt. at Sagestone already, but would like to have someone to split the bills with. I haven't signed a lease or sent any money in yet, so I am not locked in. They are just holding the apt. until tommorrow for me. Thanks, and I look forward to meeting all of you.

does anyone know when we'll get a list of books for first year?

does anyone know when we'll get a list of books for first year?

Check your pm box.

I'm sorry but I don't know what my pm box is? :(

Check your pm box.

I'm sorry but I don't know what my pm box is? :(

Private Message box. It's on the upper right hand corner of this window. Or, you can access it through the "quick links" menu above. Good luck!

Check your pm box.
Can you leave a list for all of us? I'm curious too. Or give the link. Thanks alot!!

'prolly a little late but i was wondering if anyone still needs a roomate. On campus housing just fell through for me :eek: . email me at johnjaco@onid.orst.edu before the 10th if so.

How much is everyone is taking out in private loans for MSI. I was talking with financial aid and they said that 99% of students at AZCOM take out the full $18,000...that's $18,000 above the $38,000 that we are taking out in federal loans. That seems a bit high...any thoughts?

I'm taking out almost the full amount : $40,000 in federal stafford and perkins loans, plus 15,000 in private loans. This amount does seem high, but if you go to the financial aid website https://online.midwestern.edu/ they list the amounts budgeted for living expenses. I hope we don't really need to spend 3,000 in books and supplies, but its what the school suggests.

I am taking 10,000 'cause I want to keep my lifetime maximum total educational debt under the limit of my private loan (250,000) and keep interest rates low. Also, car and medical insurance are already covered for me.

Ive been looking at the texts recommended on this forum and all the Books but the OMM can be bought on Amazon used for about 150 total, add 150 for the OMM and Physiology book and another 130 for a littman Cardio III stethoscope and it sounds like books and basic equips can be taken care of for less than $500.

If any upperclassman have any input into this it would be greatly appreciated

Got accepted into AZCOM only a few weeks ago and it looks like on-campus housing is all gone. The closest off-campus housing are the San Lagos apartments. Only prob is they start at $800/mo which is expensive. Anybody still looking for a roommate?

Got accepted into AZCOM only a few weeks ago and it looks like on-campus housing is all gone. The closest off-campus housing are the San Lagos apartments. Only prob is they start at $800/mo which is expensive. Anybody still looking for a roommate?

FYI:
Sage Stone apartments are right next door to San Lagos and a bit cheaper than San Lagos (~$800/mo minus discount and prorated leasing specials = ~$750 or so) with nearly the same exact amenities. They are still within walking distance and offer a Midwestern student discount.

If you want more info, feel free to PM me.

I'm just curious to see when the '09ers not currently in AZ will be arriving. Early on Sunday morning I should be arriving with my car and U-haul trailer full of stuff. It's hard to believe that classes start in just two weeks.....

I'm doing the big drive from San Diego this Friday with my moving truck, car, and family helpers. We're staying in a hotel that night so we can have a fresh start saturday morning to move in on campus...before it gets too hot. :) i still can't believe it is this saturday. i still don't feel like i'm going to medical school yet. i guess i'm in denial. is anyone else feeling this way?

Absolutely!

Did anyone ever come up with a list of books we need? Of those books we're supposed to have, does anyone have any insight into which ones we really need?