Hi everyone,
I'm a clinical psychologist and pre-med student (hoping to enter med school in 2007 and eventually be a psychiatrist).
I just finished studying for a BIO II exam later today and a CHM I next week and started wondering as to whether there are any other PhD/PsyD people here who want expanded scope of practice and are consequently planning on becoming MD/DO, NP/PA, or geting a post-doc MS in psychopharm?
Peace.
P.S. I'm especially interested in meeting any clinical psychologists who are becoming psychiatrists or any current MD/DO who began as a PhD/PsyD.

Hi Sasevan,

I earned my Psy.D. in 2000, my license in 2001. I am currently doing research between my first and second years of med school. I have no plans of going into psychiatry, so I may not be one you want to ask. Either way, if there is any way I can help or any questions I can answer for you, you can PM me.

PS: my first bit of advice is caveat emptor on the pre med forum.

Hi everyone,
I'm a clinical psychologist and pre-med student (hoping to enter med school in 2007 and eventually be a psychiatrist).
I just finished studying for a BIO II exam later today and a CHM I next week and started wondering as to whether there are any other PhD/PsyD people here who want expanded scope of practice and are consequently planning on becoming MD/DO, NP/PA, or geting a post-doc MS in psychopharm?
Peace.
P.S. I'm especially interested in meeting any clinical psychologists who are becoming psychiatrists or any current MD/DO who began as a PhD/PsyD.

Hi, sasevan.

Great to have you back! Good to hear that your pre-med studies are going well. What is the latest on RxP for psychologists? I've heard that legislative efforts have stalled in some states. What is the status of such bills in Florida? Are you still considering moving to New Mexico or Louisiana? In my opinion, it's just a matter of time until the kinks in psychologist RxP are worked out. I have no doubt that psychologists' efforts will not let up, and that they will ultimately secure RxP in at least a dozen states.

Also, have you considered becoming an NP or PA? Both would provide you with the medical training needed to safely and effectively prescribe psychotropic medications. As I recall, Anasazi mentioned that he was aware of a clinical psychologist-physician assistant who worked with a behavioral healthcare private practice. If you do a search, I'm sure you'll find it (I'm too lazy right now :sleep: . Of course, if you want more comprehensive training and want to treat severe inpatients with psychiatric disorders, then medical school/psychiatry residency is a good option.

Hi Sasevan,

I earned my Psy.D. in 2000, my license in 2001. I am currently doing research between my first and second years of med school. I have no plans of going into psychiatry, so I may not be one you want to ask. Either way, if there is any way I can help or any questions I can answer for you, you can PM me.

PS: my first bit of advice is caveat emptor on the pre med forum.

Hi Pterion, :)
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly and as I'm following in your footsteps you're most definitely the one to ask.
I will pm you ASAP.
Congratulations on being an MS II and thanks again. :thumbup:

Hi PublicHealth,
Thanks; both private practice and pre-med studies are going well.


What is the latest on RxP for psychologists? I've heard that legislative efforts have stalled in some states. What is the status of such bills in Florida? Are you still considering moving to New Mexico or Louisiana? In my opinion, it's just a matter of time until the kinks in psychologist RxP are worked out. I have no doubt that psychologists' efforts will not let up, and that they will ultimately secure RxP in at least a dozen states.

Despite my own pursuit of medical training I still support RxP for PhD/PsyD and am excited by medical psychologists prescribing in NM and LA since the beginning of this year, however, I'm dissapointed by how nany bills stalled this past year; and especially discouraged by the situation in FL-I don't believe RxP will come here in the next 20 years since in FL even NP don't have independent practice and can't prescribe anxiolitics or stimulants even with an MD/DO collaborative agreement.


Also, have you considered becoming an NP or PA? Both would provide you with the medical training needed to safely and effectively prescribe psychotropic medications. As I recall, Anasazi mentioned that he was aware of a clinical psychologist-physician assistant who worked with a behavioral healthcare private practice. If you do a search, I'm sure you'll find it (I'm too lazy right now :sleep: . Of course, if you want more comprehensive training and want to treat severe inpatients with psychiatric disorders, then medical school/psychiatry residency is a good option.

I did consider NP but it didn't afford me the expanded scope of practice that I'm seeking; at least not in FL which is where I want to practice.

But enough about me: how's NYCOM?

Peace.
P.S. Congrats on already being an MS II. :thumbup:

Is it worth it to apply to med school if Psy.D. are going to get scripting rights?

Is it worth it to apply to med school if Psy.D. are going to get scripting rights?

Hi biopsych,
I asked myself that question about a thousand times throughout my internship and fellowship years.
I got my doctorate in 2003 and my license in 2004 so committing myself to another 10 years (2 pre-med, 4 med, 4 psych) of education and training right out of my program was a major decision for me but one which I am glad every day that I took (despite all the natural sciences that I am taking and still have left to take!!!).
I even explored moving to NM or LA where psychologists can prescribe or becoming a nurse practioner or physician assistant; the bottom line for me was that I wanted to be able to provide psychopharmacotherapy to my patients in addition to psychotherapeutic treatment and psychometric assessment.
Eventually, I discarded all of the other options and decided to become a psychiatrist. Why?

1. I don't believe that PhD/PsyD will be getting RxP across the States any time soon (i.e., in the next 10 years). Yes, we do have RxP in NM, LA, Guam, and the DoD (and one PhD in a Native American reservation in IN) and will probably get RxP in other small, rural States but not in the large, urban ones (possible exeption may be CA where there's a lawsuit and a Democratic legislature). I now live in FL and want to eventually make my home here AND RxP is not coming to FL. Annually, the FMA budgets >$300,000 for legislative lobbying while FPA budgets <$15,000!!! The FMA has been successful in convincing this Republican legislature that even an NP with a collaborative agreement with an MD/DO cannot prescribe controlled substances such as anxiolitics, hypnotics, and stimulants; making FL one of only six States where that is the case!!!
2. Across the nation the AMA (lead by the ApA) is united in opposition to RxP while the APA and especially its local chapters are divided on this issue. Personally, I know as many psychologists who oppose RxP as those that support it!
3. Additionally, I believe that even in those States where psychologists do get RxP they will have to negotiate a lot of hurdles in order to exercise it in the limited way that it has been approved, including: 2 years of post-doc education in psychopharmacology, 2 years of supervision by physicians and ongoing consultation, efforts to convince insurance companies to reimburse for the service, and probably limited practice opportunity to outpatients with uncomplicated conditions.

For me, the perceived effort to attain RxP and the uncertainty as to the prospects of that effort served to dissuade me from pursuing a post-doc MS in psychopharm and instead to choose the route of psychiatry (though I do support psychology's efforts in pursuing RxP).

Good luck in your decision and please keep us posted.

Peace.

Ten more years...wow! I just wanted to ask if you were glad that you finished your program and got your license, or if you feel like you're starting from scratch.

Best.

Ten more years...wow! I just wanted to ask if you were glad that you finished your program and got your license, or if you feel like you're starting from scratch.

Best.

Hi winnie,
Definitely glad that I'm a psychologist and I'm enjoying private practice but if I would have known 7 years ago what I know today I believe I would have gone to med school instead of the psych program.
I do feel like I'm starting from scratch with all of the pre-med reqs but I believe that by the time I get to med school I'll probably be on an equal footing with my classmates and that in psych residency I'll actually be far ahead with assessment and psychotherapeutic skills.
Peace.

I have one question for you multiple-degree holders? How do you pay for all this? I am currently finishing my MS n Counseling Psychology and would LOVE to go on to Psy.D, but I do the math and the amount of debt I'd be in, plus the meager salary payoff once I got there just makes it seem quite foolish. (I am older than the traditional student, so this makes it make even less sense, I think.)

Here I read about people with Psy.Ds in medical school, Ph.Ds in medical school.... I wasn't sure how I'd live during the years it would take to get the Psy.D, let alone the years it would take to get that AND med school. Then there's the debt... Am I missing something? Am I just not willing to live on EasyMac, drive a bike and never go on vacation for the next twenty years? Maybe I just have a lower tolerance for debt than a lot of people.

I have one question for you multiple-degree holders? How do you pay for all this? I am currently finishing my MS n Counseling Psychology and would LOVE to go on to Psy.D, but I do the math and the amount of debt I'd be in, plus the meager salary payoff once I got there just makes it seem quite foolish. (I am older than the traditional student, so this makes it make even less sense, I think.)

Here I read about people with Psy.Ds in medical school, Ph.Ds in medical school.... I wasn't sure how I'd live during the years it would take to get the Psy.D, let alone the years it would take to get that AND med school. Then there's the debt... Am I missing something? Am I just not willing to live on EasyMac, drive a bike and never go on vacation for the next twenty years? Maybe I just have a lower tolerance for debt than a lot of people.

Hi RobinA,
Yeah, the cost can be daunting but I don't expect to ever be rich either as a psych PhD/PsyD or as a psych MD/DO.
So I'll just pay off the PsyD debt as most PsyDs do and hope to finance med edu by going to a State school and/or qualifying for a Nat'l Health Services Corp scholarship.
Where there's a will, there's a way.
During my fellowship I met 3 psychologists who had all become psychiatrists: it can be done.
Peace. :)

The best way to deal with the cost of a Ph.D. is through funding (i.e., a research based Ph.D. program). It still doesn't make up for the lost income during the years you are completing the training, but at least you don't rack up debt.

What is the difference in salary between academicians and private clinicians? I know there is a lot of variability (position, tenure, prestige of institution, motivation), but do you think that the amount saved in tuition from going to a state school than a private school would be comparable to the salary difference between being a professor and private practice psychologist?

What is the difference in salary between academicians and private clinicians? I know there is a lot of variability (position, tenure, prestige of institution, motivation), but do you think that the amount saved in tuition from going to a state school than a private school would be comparable to the salary difference between being a professor and private practice psychologist?

That question is a bit general. Going to a research based Ph.D. clinical psychology program does not prevent, or even hinder, you from doing private practice, so you can have the free education and go the practitioner route. Second, the position matters alot. Are we comparing a tenured professor at a good university to a private practitioner that does therapy all day long? Does the professor have their own private practice? Does the professor have grants? Does the professor work in a medical school or a psychology department? Does the private practitioner practice neuropsychology? Does the private practitioner see private insurance/self-pay patients or medicaid patients? What % of the private practioner's workload is forensic? There are many, many variables that go into take home pay.

Salary survey of psychologists:

http://research.apa.org/amsp/2003/amsptables.html#T14-22