Is anyone a current CA intern/resident that can explain how you live on $38k a year, pay off loans, and pay rent? Is there supplemented housing?

Is anyone a current CA intern/resident that can explain how you live on $38k a year, pay off loans, and pay rent? Is there supplemented housing?

Get economic hardship deferment and live in a $500/mo apartment. Yes, you can find them. Also remember, more than half of the US makes less than you do.

Get economic hardship deferment and live in a $500/mo apartment. Yes, you can find them. Also remember, more than half of the US makes less than you do.
Do you live in California? Just curious. What the rest of the U.S. makes isn't the issue - the cost of living in CA especially SF and LA is in fact quite a bit higher than the vast majority of the rest of the country, yet the resident salary is not.

In answer to the OPs question - UCSF and Stanford do give a bit extra $ for housing, as well as for relocating. This makes it do-able, though barely. To my knowledge, when I applied last year, none of the LA programs were doing this, which definitely factored into my ROL. LA does have a wider range of housing options and prices being such a large place - so maybe you could find a $500/mo hovel in the ghetto. I know in SF you will be hard pressed to find a studio for less than $900 regardless of how low-end you're willing to go. The other option if you're single is to pack an apartment full of roommates. But if you want your own room, you're likely to end up paying about the same as you would for a studio. To give you an idea of what I pay, I share a one bedroom apartment with one person so we split the $1600/mo.

Oh, and consolidating your loans can help reduce your monthly payments by a lot. I don't qualify for economic hardship deferral - I don't have "enough" debt (which is a hoot). But my consolidated payments are only about $200 a month - not bad! And I can always forbear or make interest-only payments if I can't manage.

I am married w/o kids so splitting rent is not an option. I was just out in OC and SD. I would love to live there, but I won't qualify for deferment since my loans will be too low. I have thought about taking the max loan for fourth yr and trying to put a down payment on a condo. CA is popular for residency, but no one really discusses the living expenses. Maybe someone else will offer some insight.

I don't know if you're thinking of a specific program, but 38K is quite a lowball estimate for an intern's salary in CA. At Stanford, I believe this year the intern salary is around $49K, and UCSF's salary is only $2-3K lower. When I was an intern at Stanford, I lived quite comfortably on a $46K salary while I was paying off loans, and built up some savings as well. I'm sure it's harder if you have kids, but with no dependents it's quite do-able. Southern CA programs may pay it's residents a little bit less, but it's also slightly less expensive to live in SoCal than in the SF area. Even when I applied 4 years ago or so, none of the CA programs that I looked at were paying their interns less than $40K, and that was a few years ago. If you looked now, I would bet that they're all paying at least $44K.

I am married w/o kids so splitting rent is not an option. I was just out in OC and SD. I would love to live there, but I won't qualify for deferment since my loans will be too low. I have thought about taking the max loan for fourth yr and trying to put a down payment on a condo. CA is popular for residency, but no one really discusses the living expenses. Maybe someone else will offer some insight.
Does your spouse work? Between the two of you, you should be able to manage the rent. The place might be on the smaller side, though. I don't know what specialty you're looking at, but Sacramento, Bakersfield, and Fresno are much more affordable options, if you're willing to live there.

I don't know if you're thinking of a specific program, but 38K is quite a lowball estimate for an intern's salary in CA. At Stanford, I believe this year the intern salary is around $49K, and UCSF's salary is only $2-3K lower. When I was an intern at Stanford, I lived quite comfortably on a $46K salary while I was paying off loans, and built up some savings as well. I'm sure it's harder if you have kids, but with no dependents it's quite do-able. Southern CA programs may pay it's residents a little bit less, but it's also slightly less expensive to live in SoCal than in the SF area. Even when I applied 4 years ago or so, none of the CA programs that I looked at were paying their interns less than $40K, and that was a few years ago. If you looked now, I would bet that they're all paying at least $44K.
I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but I just applied this past cycle, and the LA programs were paying $39K. The only CA programs paying more than $44K are Stanford and UCSF.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but I just applied this past cycle, and the LA programs were paying $39K. The only CA programs paying more than $44K are Stanford and UCSF.

Well the Stanford figures are from 1st hand experience since I was a resident there, and the UCSF figures are from seeing the PGY salary schedules during my fellowship interviews. As far as the SoCal programs, I'm just quoting what I remembered of the salary schedules they gave us during residency interviews, but it was 4-5 years ago. I distinctly remember that no program in CA that I looked at paid their interns less than $40K (I remember that because the only programs that I looked at that did pay in the 30's were the midwest programs -- it was a subject of much conversation) I assumed the current 2005 PGY1 salary would be around $44K or so for the SoCal programs since all the hospitals I've been at tend to increase their PGY1 salary by about $800 or so per year, so I figured the SoCal programs would also follow similar trends. I can't imagine that the SoCal programs wouldn't have increased their intern salaries at all during the last 5 years. But, hey, I didn't look in SoCal for fellowship, so I don't have any current information.

The other thing is that UCLA and UCSF are on the same salary schedule, which is slightly higher than the salary schedule of the rest of the UC's. This is because they are in more expensive areas, so the UC system pays the residents more to compensate for the difference in the cost of living. So the UCLA interns should be making as much as the UCSF interns. (again - this is all information from about 5 years ago, so could be out of date).

Interesting... I was checking some of the program salaries on FREIDA, and I must have been pretty lucky when I chose the programs to apply to -- I just happened to apply to SoCal programs that pay higher intern salaries (I didn't do that on purpose, though!). There are a number of them that I see on FREIDA that do pay PGY1's 38-40K.

I still don't think it's a problem. Especially when you look at how fast your salary goes up by the time you reach PGY2 and 3. You also have a 6 month grace period on your loans during internship, so you won't have to start paying until halfway through.

The NorCal programs still pay more, and up there it's more than enough to live on. Plus, the cost of living is much less in SoCal (compared with SF), so your money will last longer. Again, I lived very comfortably on a 46K salary in the SF bay area and built up a savings and paid loans. With the better cost of living in SoCal, I think you could still live comfortably on $38K. You can't buy a house, though, like you can in the midwest, but it's all relative.... :)

Well the Stanford figures are from 1st hand experience since I was a resident there, and the UCSF figures are from seeing the PGY salary schedules during my fellowship interviews. As far as the SoCal programs, I'm just quoting what I remembered of the salary schedules they gave us during residency interviews, but it was 4-5 years ago. I distinctly remember that no program in CA that I looked at paid their interns less than $40K (I remember that because the only programs that I looked at that did pay in the 30's were the midwest programs -- it was a subject of much conversation) I assumed the current 2005 PGY1 salary would be around $44K or so for the SoCal programs since all the hospitals I've been at tend to increase their PGY1 salary by about $800 or so per year, so I figured the SoCal programs would also follow similar trends. I can't imagine that the SoCal programs wouldn't have increased their intern salaries at all during the last 5 years. But, hey, I didn't look in SoCal for fellowship, so I don't have any current information.

The other thing is that UCLA and UCSF are on the same salary schedule, which is slightly higher than the salary schedule of the rest of the UC's. This is because they are in more expensive areas, so the UC system pays the residents more to compensate for the difference in the cost of living. So the UCLA interns should be making as much as the UCSF interns. (again - this is all information from about 5 years ago, so could be out of date).
Yeah, I definitely follow your reasoning, and it seems like it would be the case...I have no idea why LA salaries are still so freaking low. You're right that UCLA and UCSF PGY1s do make the same base salary ($39K - I have it in writing in my contract) but UCSF pays a housing stipend on top of that.

The NorCal programs still pay more, and up there it's more than enough to live on. Plus, the cost of living is much less in SoCal (compared with SF), so your money will last longer. Again, I lived very comfortably on a 46K salary in the SF bay area and built up a savings and paid loans. With the better cost of living in SoCal, I think you could still live comfortably on $38K. You can't buy a house, though, like you can in the midwest, but it's all relative.... :)
Agreed. We won't be buying a house for at least a decade, but other than that we are able to live pretty comfortably.

I am married w/o kids so splitting rent is not an option. I was just out in OC and SD. I would love to live there, but I won't qualify for deferment since my loans will be too low. I have thought about taking the max loan for fourth yr and trying to put a down payment on a condo. CA is popular for residency, but no one really discusses the living expenses. Maybe someone else will offer some insight.

Sorry, but it seems like you are making excuses for not splitting rent. I know a couple that is married and they live with another couple. Actually, this has enabled the married couple to buy a house and build equity while the other couple lives in their own area of the house (basement) for not very much money. It's something to think about, but it could give you a better foothold on your finances. As for a down payment, I don't know how much you need to worry about that right now. I have a few friends who have financed places 100% without any problems. You could try an interest-only mortgage to reduce your monthly payment as well. Good luck.

To answer a previous reply, my wife currently works. We plan on having kids sometime during PGY-2. I am considering taking out the max loans in my 4th year for a down payment and doing a loan that pays on interest only. For CA, this makes sense since the profit depends on the rising cost of the property over anything else including principal. Thanks for the replies so far. It is an enigma that NorCal is paying >5k more than SoCal when both are expensive.

all the UC's; whether UC-Irvine, UCLA, or UCSF pay the same base salary. It is determined by the regents. UCSF does give a $500/month housing stipend. UCLA does not. It just started this year.