I am a predent. But I want to become an OMFS. I know that most dentists do not become OMFS... And i doubt i would be happy as a general dentist. I am afraid that not everyone calls a general dentist a "doctor", and it does bother me. And i feel that OMFS is closer to general surgery than to dentistry(in terms of procedures that they may do). On the other hand i would never want to be a general surgeon because they get paid less than OMFS, while they do a 5yr residency... Also I plan to go to an ivy league dental school, while if i were to apply to medschools, I wouldnt even have the slightest idea which medschool would accept me... So am I applying for all the wrong reasons? And if so, what are my alternatives?

http://www.frankambrose.com/graphics/bombs%20away.jpg

Just get one of those t-shirts that read "Trust me I'm a Doctor"

:barf: pip00

Panther

General surgery is 5 years while OMFS is 4 or 6 years. I say this difference is negligible. Especially if you really want to do one over the other.

These are 2 entirely different fields. Have you been exposed to either to make an informed decision?

If you're in it for the money, OMFS is the way to go. But the most money-making procedures are dental (extractions, implants).

Oh good, another kid whose entire self-image depends on whether or not someone will call him doctor in the future. If it is prestige you want, dentistry is the wrong way to go. You will spend the rest of your career with a chip on your shoulder. Many "real" doctors still think of OMS as "just" dentists -- regardless of whether they earn the MD or not.

If you want people to be impressed with your career try ministry or medicine. Both can get you the big bucks; medicine is more work but a little more of a guarantee on the financial side.

I wouldn't even think about dentistry with your attitude; you will be sorry.

I am a predent. But I want to become an OMFS. I know that most dentists do not become OMFS... And i doubt i would be happy as a general dentist. I am afraid that not everyone calls a general dentist a "doctor", and it does bother me. And i feel that OMFS is closer to general surgery than to dentistry(in terms of procedures that they may do). On the other hand i would never want to be a general surgeon because they get paid less than OMFS, while they do a 5yr residency... Also I plan to go to an ivy league dental school, while if i were to apply to medschools, I wouldnt even have the slightest idea which medschool would accept me... So am I applying for all the wrong reasons? And if so, what are my alternatives?


This is a literary masterpiece. You should send this exact piece of material to all the OMFS residency chairmen in the country. With intellect and insight of this magnitude, most programs will let you forego dental school and start your residency as soon as you earn your BS from that Ivy League school.

I am a predent. But I want to become an OMFS. I know that most dentists do not become OMFS... And i doubt i would be happy as a general dentist. I am afraid that not everyone calls a general dentist a "doctor", and it does bother me. And i feel that OMFS is closer to general surgery than to dentistry(in terms of procedures that they may do). On the other hand i would never want to be a general surgeon because they get paid less than OMFS, while they do a 5yr residency... Also I plan to go to an ivy league dental school, while if i were to apply to medschools, I wouldnt even have the slightest idea which medschool would accept me... So am I applying for all the wrong reasons? And if so, what are my alternatives?


Print this post out and give it to the people at your interviews. It was moving, and I am sure you will get into every school out there with such drive and desire that you speak of. You will be a great addition to our profession. Save your time and money, go to med school or find out what dentistry is really about. You need to be a good general dentist to get into and through OMS. Rethink some things and be open to things. You sound very narrow minded, what do you do once you get throguh dental school and don;t get into OMS.....you are a miserable general dentist they don;t call a "doctor" Think things over with all due respect.
T2006

What bothers me about dentists is that they work in an office, solo. Of course this is also what attracts me to dentistry... But sometimes i even feel like i'd want to work in academia, so that my colleagues and my students could call me "dr"(no the real reason is to have intelligent conversations with them). Silly, i know. But i always use poor wording, i only mean to say that dentists for example work in a completely different atmosphere from the surgeons in large hospitals(or even large single-specialty groups). I sometimes feel like dentists have the same relationship with their patients as veteranarians with animals... At least as a surgeon i can interact with colleagues.

I agree that 4yrs vs 5yrs of residency is not such a big deal. Also OMFS do not work 80+hrs/wk , unlike general surgeons. OMFS have a whole year of anesthesia, right? I havent been exposed to either, and i might say that some of the things about gen. surgery might gross me out or bore me. I doubt that gen. surgery is more interesting, but they are certainly comparable... I know that OMFS can make lots of $ and also can make complex procedures like tumor removal from the throat. My biggest problem with general surgery though is that i wouldnt know what medschool i could get into. I would have to apply to 20 different schools. With dental schools, while i may be rejected by ivy leagues, the process is still much more secure. At least if i want to go to a school in ny or in boston, i can get it.

Just get one of those t-shirts that read "Trust me I'm a Doctor"

:barf: pip00

Panther

haha, i know someone with one of those

Print this post out and give it to the people at your interviews. It was moving, and I am sure you will get into every school out there with such drive and desire that you speak of. You will be a great addition to our profession. Save your time and money, go to med school or find out what dentistry is really about. You need to be a good general dentist to get into and through OMS. Rethink some things and be open to things. You sound very narrow minded, what do you do once you get throguh dental school and don;t get into OMS.....you are a miserable general dentist they don;t call a "doctor" Think things over with all due respect.
T2006
yeah, i dont know if i would make a good general dentist...

If that's your motivation you will be unable to succeed in dental school and will therefore have no chance at getting into any residency, let alone OMS. Dental school is so brutal that unless you are truly motivated you will drop out, fail, or commit hari kari.

Oh good, another kid whose entire self-image depends on whether or not someone will call him doctor in the future. If it is prestige you want, dentistry is the wrong way to go. You will spend the rest of your career with a chip on your shoulder. Many "real" doctors still think of OMS as "just" dentists -- regardless of whether they earn the MD or not.

If you want people to be impressed with your career try ministry or medicine. Both can get you the big bucks; medicine is more work but a little more of a guarantee on the financial side.

I wouldn't even think about dentistry with your attitude; you will be sorry.
i read several threads about omfs. and i concluded that only the very ignorant would not call them doctors.

Remember, those that get into OMFS residencies were in the top of their dental school class. That means they got top grades in most of those "general dentist" classes such as operative, endo, pros, etc. If you want to be an OMFS, you have be at the top of class gradewise which means doing excellent in all the things you would be "miserable" doing.

If that's your motivation you will be unable to succeed in dental school and will therefore have no chance at getting into any residency, let alone OMS. Dental school is so brutal that unless you are truly motivated you will drop out, fail, or commit hari kari.

so i take it that most people that enter dental school with aspirations to become OMFS drop the idea before finishing dental school? I guess same as most students enter medschool planning to be general surgeons or heart surgeons.

Remember, those that get into OMFS residencies were in the top of their dental school class. That means they got top grades in most of those "general dentist" classes such as operative, endo, pros, etc. If you want to be an OMFS, you have be at the top of class gradewise which means doing excellent in all the things you would be "miserable" doing.
i thought you were mostly graded on the basic science courses, while in the clinical courses you were only graded pass/fail? I dont think i would mind putting in cavities, but i am afraid i would be unhappy to be stuck as a general dentist for life.

What bothers me about dentists is that they work in an office, solo. Of course this is also what attracts me to dentistry... But sometimes i even feel like i'd want to work in academia, so that my colleagues and my students could call me "dr"(no the real reason is to have intelligent conversations with them). Silly, i know. But i always use poor wording, i only mean to say that dentists for example work in a completely different atmosphere from the surgeons in large hospitals(or even large single-specialty groups). I sometimes feel like dentists have the same relationship with their patients as veteranarians with animals... At least as a surgeon i can interact with colleagues.

I agree that 4yrs vs 5yrs of residency is not such a big deal. Also OMFS do not work 80+hrs/wk , unlike general surgeons. OMFS have a whole year of anesthesia, right? I havent been exposed to either, and i might say that some of the things about gen. surgery might gross me out or bore me. I doubt that gen. surgery is more interesting, but they are certainly comparable... I know that OMFS can make lots of $ and also can make complex procedures like tumor removal from the throat. My biggest problem with general surgery though is that i wouldnt know what medschool i could get into. I would have to apply to 20 different schools. With dental schools, while i may be rejected by ivy leagues, the process is still much more secure. At least if i want to go to a school in ny or in boston, i can get it.

i am pretty sure that most omfs also work out of private or semiprivate offices just like gp's and all the other specialties... also if your grades are good enough to get into a highly competitive dental school then you will be able to get into med school also. if they aren't good and you do go to dental school, you better be ready to work a lot harder if you want to get into omfs (from what i've heard).

just curious was your post for real or were you just trying to make people on here mad?

i am pretty sure that most omfs also work out of private or semiprivate offices just like gp's and all the other specialties... also if your grades are good enough to get into a highly competitive dental school then you will be able to get into med school also. if they aren't good and you do go to dental school, you better be ready to work a lot harder if you want to get into omfs (from what i've heard).

just curious was your post for real or were you just trying to make people on here mad?

damn it, i wish i could post here.. i'm still predent.. so i guess i'll go back to the predental forum... maybe in a few months i can post here!!

damn it, i wish i could post here.. i'm still predent.. so i guess i'll go back to the predental forum... maybe in a few months i can post here!!

??

i thought you were mostly graded on the basic science courses, while in the clinical courses you were only graded pass/fail? I dont think i would mind putting in cavities, but i am afraid i would be unhappy to be stuck as a general dentist for life.


"I dont think i would mind putting in cavities"

Give it up, you are so underinformed or probably more misinformed that you have no clue what you are getting into. Go to dentaltown.com. They have forums there where other "dentists" talk intellectually with other "just dentist's , not doctors" about cases. You learn the basics in school. You have a terrible attitude and like others said, you will not do well in school with your attitude toward dentistry and many schools give grades in clinic, not all schools are P/F....prime example of you lacking information. How are you going to be a world class OMS if are assuming soo much? Get the facts first chief!

T2006

My biggest problem with general surgery though is that i wouldnt know what medschool i could get into. I would have to apply to 20 different schools. With dental schools, while i may be rejected by ivy leagues, the process is still much more secure. At least if i want to go to a school in ny or in boston, i can get it.


While it may be true that med school is more difficult to get into than dental school, this is becoming less the case. The difference in avg gpa's of matriculants at my dental school vs. the local med school is less than a tenth of a point. Don't go into dental school if you're not sure you'd enjoy dentistry. 1) OMS uses the principles learned in dent school to do their job, and 2) OMS is amazingly competitive to get into. If you don't think you could get into med school, you won't be able to get into oral surgery.

I sometimes feel like dentists have the same relationship with their patients as veteranarians with animals... At least as a surgeon i can interact with colleagues.


Maybe this is your problem. I think a Doctor of any kind of health should be concerned about their patients! Not look at them as you would an animal (although some very lovingly look at animals). Does being a patient make you a lowly peon or closer to your words, a mere dog? Are others with medical degrees the only ones worthy of your interaction?

i read several threads about omfs. and i concluded that only the very ignorant would not call them doctors.
And only the very ignorant would dare post something as self-absorbed and dimwitted as what you did. Please take your egomania and park it somewhere else.

If prestige is that important to you then you should steer clear of dentistry altogether. Go into medicine.

Better yet, get a high power rifle and climb to the top of a water tower. That's a sure way to garner fame and prestige. ;)

I'm still laughing about how Dentists:thier patients as vets:dogs :laugh:

If prestige is that important to you then you should steer clear of dentistry altogether. Go into medicine.


I agree.

I don't understand the need for prestige that some of these people have.

:rolleyes:

i thought you were mostly graded on the basic science courses, while in the clinical courses you were only graded pass/fail? I dont think i would mind putting in cavities, but i am afraid i would be unhappy to be stuck as a general dentist for life.
You are also graded in all your preclinical courses such as endo, operative, pros, etc. Many schools also grade you in clinic with A, B, C, D, or F.

I am a predent. But I want to become an OMFS. I know that most dentists do not become OMFS... And i doubt i would be happy as a general dentist. I am afraid that not everyone calls a general dentist a "doctor", and it does bother me. And i feel that OMFS is closer to general surgery than to dentistry(in terms of procedures that they may do). On the other hand i would never want to be a general surgeon because they get paid less than OMFS, while they do a 5yr residency... Also I plan to go to an ivy league dental school, while if i were to apply to medschools, I wouldnt even have the slightest idea which medschool would accept me... So am I applying for all the wrong reasons? And if so, what are my alternatives?
You disgust me. You are wrong.....everyone calls general dentists "Doctor", it's 4 years of school just like med school. Do some research before you open up your immature mouth about topics. Go ahead, do OS for the money....you likely won't get accepted, and moreover you will be unhappy. It is clear you are a lazy kid....can't hack a residency, and are exactly the type that should be denied to dental school.

i read several threads about omfs. and i concluded that only the very ignorant would not call them doctors.

I also think that only the very ignorant would not refer to a dentist (of any type) as a doctor. There is a reason why a DDS is a Doctor of Dental Surgery. Any time you cut into a patient, it is surgery. Most of the procedures that any type of dentist performs (except for prophys and exams) are surgical in nature.

As you have said, you have not observed much...therefore I think we should cut you a little bit of slack. Go and see what a general dentist does, go and see what a general surgeon does....then come back and try to have a conversation with us. However, making such unfounded statements is a quick way to offend a lot of people around here.

Man, this thread is awesome.

What bothers me about dentists is that they work in an office, solo. ... I sometimes feel like dentists have the same relationship with their patients as veteranarians with animals... At least as a surgeon i can interact with colleagues.


are you for real?? ever been to a dentists??

Sara was at least funny!

you know guys, have you ever considered that some posts may be from kids still in high school? maybe they are just trying to find their place in life. sdn'ers do not need to be so nasty to other people's questions. those of you that are so quick to judge others really should ask yourselves why you are willing to put energy into bashing others.

If you want real surgery, try perio. The only problem is that we are still just a lowly DDS (i.e. a "fake doctor") As for oral surgery, the only way they make more money than general surgery is by placing implants and shucking 3rds. You have to think about whether that is what you want. If not go to medicine and do research. I think they will call you doctor and you might get a little respect.

you know guys, have you ever considered that some posts may be from kids still in high school? maybe they are just trying to find their place in life. sdn'ers do not need to be so nasty to other people's questions. those of you that are so quick to judge others really should ask yourselves why you are willing to put energy into bashing others.
Then they should not say they are "a predent at an Ivy School". I am sure we would be more courteous if it were not for the blatant egotistical, aloof atitude manifesting itself by the sdner who started this thread.

If you want real surgery, try perio.

As opposed to all those "fake surgeries" that the OMFS folks do?

If you want real surgery, try perio. The only problem is that we are still just a lowly DDS (i.e. a "fake doctor") As for oral surgery, the only way they make more money than general surgery is by placing implants and shucking 3rds. You have to think about whether that is what you want. If not go to medicine and do research. I think they will call you doctor and you might get a little respect.

Real surgery? Don't you have some scaling & root planing to do?

This forum is for dental and pre-dental students not for pre-school kids.
I don’t recommend you to become neither a doctor nor a dentist.

Real surgery? Don't you have some scaling & root planing to do?

One of your best posts ever Bill! :D

well ive decided to stay a predent. here is my reasoning:
option1:
take mcat(since i'm a perfectionist, im afraid i would have to study more and to wait till next august to take it, so i would be late to apply the following cycle). with my gpa(hopefully a 3.5), i could get into some school. but what school that would be, i have no idea. then for the following 9 years i'd have absolutely no life... i think if you go to harvard med(where you know you'll have no trouble getting into general surgery somewhere), you can really enjoy school and tell everyone how prestigious you are. but if you go to some 3rd tier school, then sorry. Of course once you do become a surgeon, it doesnt matter so much where you went to school, but by that time i dont think i'd care about prestige any more:(
option2:
take dat. go to an ivy league dental school. no one will care, because people(not me) think only medschool rejects go into dentistry. but still, i will have to land some respect by resonance, if my columbia medschool classmates go to some social gatherings, so do i.
option 3:
md/ph.d. sounds awesome, but not practical for me.

so i choose option 2.

Oh boy :rolleyes:
Another typical case of a CLUELESS high school kid :rolleyes:
wondering what are the MODS doing these days!

I don't know what you want us to tell you. You want to be an OMFS, so become an OMFS. What's the problem? Afraid you won't make it? So are a lot of others. If it's what you really want to do, you go to dental school, apply to OMFS residency and take your chances.

I am a predent. But I want to become an OMFS. I know that most dentists do not become OMFS... And i doubt i would be happy as a general dentist. I am afraid that not everyone calls a general dentist a "doctor", and it does bother me. And i feel that OMFS is closer to general surgery than to dentistry(in terms of procedures that they may do). On the other hand i would never want to be a general surgeon because they get paid less than OMFS, while they do a 5yr residency... Also I plan to go to an ivy league dental school, while if i were to apply to medschools, I wouldnt even have the slightest idea which medschool would accept me... So am I applying for all the wrong reasons? And if so, what are my alternatives?

[QUOTE=pip00]well ive decided to stay a predent. here is my reasoning:
option1:
take mcat(since i'm a perfectionist, im afraid i would have to study more and to wait till next august to take it, so i would be late to apply the following cycle). with my gpa(hopefully a 3.5), i could get into some school. but what school that would be, i have no idea. then for the following 9 years i'd have absolutely no life...

option2:
take dat. go to an ivy league dental school. no one will care, because people(not me) think only medschool rejects go into dentistry. but still, i will have to land some respect by resonance, if my columbia medschool classmates go to some social gatherings, so do i.

Hey pip00, Let's make a deal....ready, this is a one time offer. I will pay for you to take Kaplan and for your MCAT's, as many times as you would like until you get that perfect score, but in return you have to promise to not apply to dental school or take your DAT's. How does that sound? You complain in Med School you will have 9 years of no life. Do the math with dental school, 4 of dental and then 4-6 of OMS. That is 8-10 years with no life. Please accept my offer, I know my fellow SDNer's would help defer the costs. T 2006

[QUOTE=pip00]well ive decided to stay a predent. here is my reasoning:
option1:
take mcat(since i'm a perfectionist, im afraid i would have to study more and to wait till next august to take it, so i would be late to apply the following cycle). with my gpa(hopefully a 3.5), i could get into some school. but what school that would be, i have no idea. then for the following 9 years i'd have absolutely no life...

option2:
take dat. go to an ivy league dental school. no one will care, because people(not me) think only medschool rejects go into dentistry. but still, i will have to land some respect by resonance, if my columbia medschool classmates go to some social gatherings, so do i.

Hey pip00, Let's make a deal....ready, this is a one time offer. I will pay for you to take Kaplan and for your MCAT's, as many times as you would like until you get that perfect score, but in return you have to promise to not apply to dental school or take your DAT's. How does that sound? You complain in Med School you will have 9 years of no life. Do the math with dental school, 4 of dental and then 4-6 of OMS. That is 8-10 years with no life. Please accept my offer, I know my fellow SDNer's would help defer the costs. T 2006

i dont think i need a review course for mcat. because i have the textbooks... but if you could get me into columbia college of surgeons assuming i got the mcat covered, i would jump at the offer. or if you just have money to spare, i know of ways to spend it. ive been meaning to get me a private pilot license but it costs $. but instead, i'll promise something i can fullfill-i'll p3wn you on the DAT.

If i go to columbia(i dont mention my dream school-Harvard, because that is not very realistic), i will be taking the same courses as columbia med students. So it wont be as hellish as going to some 3rd tier medschool. Then, i know that i may either change my mind about going on to OMFS or i may not get the grades... Then it means ive spent only 4 years and i can still make out all right financially. But if i do make it to OMFS(i dont see why would i go to the 6yr program unless i were interested in prestige, i think i'll be too old to care about prestige by the time i finish dental school), the residency is not so bad. OMFS from what ive heard do not work 80hrs/wk except for that 1 year when they're doing gen. surgery.

Oh, and another thing. If i go to a 3rd tier medschool, i'll have trouble ever going into academia. I dont intend to go in that direction now. But who knows what will happen. Perhaps if i go to columbia or harvard for dental school, i'll never want to leave the university...

I don't know what you want us to tell you. You want to be an OMFS, so become an OMFS. What's the problem? Afraid you won't make it? So are a lot of others. If it's what you really want to do, you go to dental school, apply to OMFS residency and take your chances.
thanks, i intend to do exactly that!

so i would be late to apply the following cycle). with my gpa(hopefully a 3.5), take dat. go to an ivy league dental school.


You better hope you do well on your DAT...3.5 if you're lucky huh...going to need more help than just that bud.

You better hope you do well on your DAT...3.5 if you're lucky huh...going to need more help than just that bud.
why, i believe i'd be a shoe in at columbia if i did well(25) on the DAT.. On the other hand a 35 or even 40 on the mcat could only get me into a 3rd tier medschool.

Both Harvard and Columbia looks down upon students like you. We nor any dental school would want someone with your attitude.

Do what you really want to do in life, not what you think is the easy route (AND DENTISTRY IS NOT AN EASY ROUTE: dental students, especially at Harvard and Columbia, have it much harder than medical students).

I recommend learning a phrase that would probably make your life really easy, "Would you like fries with that?"

why, i believe i'd be a shoe in at columbia if i did well(25) on the DAT.. On the other hand a 35 or even 40 on the mcat could only get me into a 3rd tier medschool.

it's weird, but for some reason, i can't believe you're, like, a real person.

[QUOTE=Temple 2006]

i dont think i need a review course for mcat. because i have the textbooks... but if you could get me into columbia college of surgeons assuming i got the mcat covered, i would jump at the offer. or if you just have money to spare, i know of ways to spend it. ive been meaning to get me a private pilot license but it costs $. but instead, i'll promise something i can fullfill-i'll p3wn you on the DAT.

If i go to columbia(i dont mention my dream school-Harvard, because that is not very realistic), i will be taking the same courses as columbia med students. So it wont be as hellish as going to some 3rd tier medschool. Then, i know that i may either change my mind about going on to OMFS or i may not get the grades... Then it means ive spent only 4 years and i can still make out all right financially. But if i do make it to OMFS(i dont see why would i go to the 6yr program unless i were interested in prestige, i think i'll be too old to care about prestige by the time i finish dental school), the residency is not so bad. OMFS from what ive heard do not work 80hrs/wk except for that 1 year when they're doing gen. surgery.

Oh, and another thing. If i go to a 3rd tier medschool, i'll have trouble ever going into academia. I dont intend to go in that direction now. But who knows what will happen. Perhaps if i go to columbia or harvard for dental school, i'll never want to leave the university...

Pip,

I admire you for your courage to ask these basic questions on this forum. I however, also question whether you know what's going on! Where are you in school? What experiences do you have that make you feel like the only way you will be sucessful is to have 1. an md or 2. a degree from a 'prestigous' university.

You also underestimate the MCAT's. This is a VERY challenging exam, not to be taken lightly. The DAT was like a walk in the park compared to the type of exam the MCAT is. With a 3.5 you need a 35+ to get into a top-tier medical school and at least a 30 to be secure in any other school.

It's time to realized that we are not in the 1950s. Doctors as a whole are respected for what they do (md's, dmd's whatever) and will be for a long time. Today, however, doctors are not as highly exhaulted as they once were. My sister is an internist, brother is a surgeon and they get questions from their patients like "doctor, how dare you charge so much for a procedure" when it's like a $100 office visit/lab fee. During my father's best periods (1960-1980) as a surgeon, he ruled the hospital. Now it is the attorneys who are in that position.

If you want respect and admiration, go to law school and become a great lawyer. If you want to help people and make a difference in somebody's health and quality of life, go into medical/dental school. Both are very rewarding.

Dentistry is the best profession in healthcare, no doubt. But then again, one must do it for the right reasons. If you only go into the field for 1. prestige or 2. money, you will be doing yourself a disservice. #2, however, only applies for residencies (Endo, Ortho :P). However, if you go into dentistry for the lifestyle, that is an OKAY answer... but one must go in with an open mind or you will get burned.

Life is full of choices and challenges. Do yourself a service and fully research what your options are, but SDN is only one way. Shadow a general surgeon, an internist, a OMS, a general dentist. Find out what you like. Remember, OMS's will ALWAYS be dentists just as ortho, endo, perio and gp's will always be dentists... and should be proud of having that title. I know I will be :).

-Mike

http://www.frankambrose.com/graphics/bombs%20away.jpg

Man, this is so funny. :)

so i take it that most people that enter dental school with aspirations to become OMFS drop the idea before finishing dental school? I guess same as most students enter medschool planning to be general surgeons or heart surgeons.
I think this is true. The first week of dental school half the class wanted to go into ortho. After 4 years, 6 people applied and 3 got in. Being a gunner is an endurance race. You have to keep charging ahead and simply wait for everyone else to tire out. This is harder than it sounds.

I don't know if I have that kind of endurance....I've found myself lately just wanting to be done with it all. Who knows what I'll wind up doing. I've just decided to be happy with whatever comes my way.

If i go to columbia(i dont mention my dream school-Harvard, because that is not very realistic), i will be taking the same courses as columbia med students. So it wont be as hellish as going to some 3rd tier medschool.
Why Harvard? You obviously haven't heard the clinical reputation of the students they put out.


Oh, and another thing. If i go to a 3rd tier medschool, i'll have trouble ever going into academia.
You'll have no trouble getting a job in academics, whether dental or medical. The majority of specialties are hurting because they can't hire people who would rather make 2-3x the money in private practice.

I'm not sure that anyone cares where their doctor went to school. Actually, I don't know where any of my doctors went to med/dental school.

[QUOTE=pip00]

Pip,

I admire you for your courage to ask these basic questions on this forum. I however, also question whether you know what's going on! Where are you in school? What experiences do you have that make you feel like the only way you will be sucessful is to have 1. an md or 2. a degree from a 'prestigous' university.

You also underestimate the MCAT's. This is a VERY challenging exam, not to be taken lightly. The DAT was like a walk in the park compared to the type of exam the MCAT is. With a 3.5 you need a 35+ to get into a top-tier medical school and at least a 30 to be secure in any other school.

It's time to realized that we are not in the 1950s. Doctors as a whole are respected for what they do (md's, dmd's whatever) and will be for a long time. Today, however, doctors are not as highly exhaulted as they once were. My sister is an internist, brother is a surgeon and they get questions from their patients like "doctor, how dare you charge so much for a procedure" when it's like a $100 office visit/lab fee. During my father's best periods (1960-1980) as a surgeon, he ruled the hospital. Now it is the attorneys who are in that position.

If you want respect and admiration, go to law school and become a great lawyer. If you want to help people and make a difference in somebody's health and quality of life, go into medical/dental school. Both are very rewarding.

Dentistry is the best profession in healthcare, no doubt. But then again, one must do it for the right reasons. If you only go into the field for 1. prestige or 2. money, you will be doing yourself a disservice. #2, however, only applies for residencies (Endo, Ortho :P). However, if you go into dentistry for the lifestyle, that is an OKAY answer... but one must go in with an open mind or you will get burned.

Life is full of choices and challenges. Do yourself a service and fully research what your options are, but SDN is only one way. Shadow a general surgeon, an internist, a OMS, a general dentist. Find out what you like. Remember, OMS's will ALWAYS be dentists just as ortho, endo, perio and gp's will always be dentists... and should be proud of having that title. I know I will be :).

-Mike
Thank you Mike for the sincere advice! And your post affirms my views that dentistry is the right choice for me. I am actually kind of shy. But I think I'll shadow a dentist before this summer is over.. I dont think im going to shadow any general surgeon. If i get to meet them, it's only when/if i do OMFS, i would love to learn to remove appendicis. I once read about some submarine doctor that removed his own appendix. I am going to be a junior in the fall. And i'm looking forward to start doing research in the fall.

It's not really about experiences and it may sound cliche, but i think the only way i'll ever become a gentleman is if i have a suitable job/education.
I agree, mcat is not easy, especially the verbal section. I have the EK books since i originally planned to take mcat. I wrote my message optimistically, i may or may not get 35+(i'd aim for 40). But that score wouldnt get me into the college of p&s anyway. As it stands now, im not taking mcat, and i would not speculate on whether i'd get a 20 or a 40.

When i was looking for respect, i wasnt talking about patients. I feel if I'm good at what i do(dentist or internist or gas station owner), then my customers/patients would respect me. But i no doubt believe you that MD's have the same(or even worse) $ problems with patients that dentists have. I was looking for respect/encouragement from the peers/colleagues. Like I can see that everyone admires college professors, and it really attracts me.

I could not possibly be a lawyer because i'm not very good at english and i am just not interested in that line of work. I am genuinely interested in science(but not enough to be a professor). Though if i were to shadow/observe a lawyer i would be impressed with him as much as with a dentist or a physician.

[QUOTE=mike3kgt] I once read about some submarine doctor that removed his own appendix.
You can do that with Time Life's Home Surgery series. I think the appendectomy is covered in volume 2.

I think this is true. The first week of dental school half the class wanted to go into ortho. After 4 years, 6 people applied and 3 got in. Being a gunner is an endurance race. You have to keep charging ahead and simply wait for everyone else to tire out. This is harder than it sounds.

and what % of the starting class wanted to be OMFS? but whatever happens. i just want to get the most education possible, and if i'll be a general dentist, it's not bad.

http://eqlive.station.sony.com/images/concept_art/troll.jpg

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
(see above)

paws

So am I applying for all the wrong reasons?

emphatic yes! you won't be happy....

OMFS from what ive heard do not work 80hrs/wk except for that 1 year when they're doing gen. surgery.

General surgery will be the only time I will work as little as 80 hours per week. Fortunately or unfortunately we are not currently held to this rule. Personally I think the 80 h work week takes away from your training.

If i get to meet them, it's only when/if i do OMFS, i would love to learn to remove appendicis.


Do you even know what OMFS stands for?

I am a predent. But I want to become an OMFS. I know that most dentists do not become OMFS... And i doubt i would be happy as a general dentist. I am afraid that not everyone calls a general dentist a "doctor", and it does bother me. And i feel that OMFS is closer to general surgery than to dentistry(in terms of procedures that they may do). On the other hand i would never want to be a general surgeon because they get paid less than OMFS, while they do a 5yr residency... Also I plan to go to an ivy league dental school, while if i were to apply to medschools, I wouldnt even have the slightest idea which medschool would accept me... So am I applying for all the wrong reasons? And if so, what are my alternatives?

The one thing that really hit me was where you said: I am afraid that not everyone calls a general dentist a "doctor", and it does bother me.

If you're a general dentist, or an OMFS, you're still a dentist with a DDS/DMD degree, and therefore, you're a doctor. Your patients and staff will call you doctor no matter area of dental medicine you practice. Generally speaking, however, you're referred to as dentist, but your title is "doctor". Is the title more important to you than the career/job? If your title is that important to you, I think maybe you need to rethink why you want to spend four years in medical school/dental school.

You also mentioned the money. An MD general surgeon would probably make more money than an OMFS, but I guess it depends on the geographic area where you practice. MD Surgeons make A LOT of money. After residency, they average around $250,000+ a year. The + can go up to...well, a hell of a lot of money. Specialized surgeons even more. I have no idea how much OMFS make, but I would think a general MD surgeon would make a comparable salary or even more depending on the area.

I think some OMFSs have both an MD and a DDS. Is that your goal?

If I were you, I would focus on the profession and schooling, not how much money you'll make and what your title will be or what people will refer to you as. I usually find that the most insecure people insist on being called "doctor", whereas the most competent and brilliant people let you call them by their first names. I have several associates who are MD-PHD, MD-JD, PhD-JD, and even PhD-PharmD graduates and they all go by their first names and don't need titles to boost their egos.

Last month I was at the tire shop getting my tire repaired. As I was going to pay, they called "Mr. Smith" to the people in the waiting room. This little sloppily dressed man yells back, "That's DOCTOR Smith!" Everyone stared at him for a minute. He came up to pay, next to me, and I glanced over at his checkbook and it said "DC" next to his name. In other words, he was a chiropractor. I don't know too many MDs or DDSs who would correct someone like that in public. I always introduce myself by my first and last name, sans title, when I first meet my patients.

hey ProZackMI;

What are you planning to do with your MD/JD/pshychiatry degrees? thats very unique.

[QUOTE=mike3kgt]

When i was looking for respect, i wasnt talking about patients. I feel if I'm good at what i do(dentist or internist or gas station owner), then my customers/patients would respect me. But i no doubt believe you that MD's have the same(or even worse) $ problems with patients that dentists have. I was looking for respect/encouragement from the peers/colleagues. Like I can see that everyone admires college professors, and it really attracts me.



Don't you think other dentists will respect you as a dentist? They will have known what you have gone through to get there because they did it themselves. Seems like funny reasoning to choose career based on respect from those who are doing the same thing.

Why are you so set on OMFS when it sounds like you want to go into academia?

hey ProZackMI;

What are you planning to do with your MD/JD/pshychiatry degrees? thats very unique.

Take the bar exam in Feb 06, and if I pass, move over into law and forget medicine!

The one thing that really hit me was where you said:

If you're a general dentist, or an OMFS, you're still a dentist with a DDS/DMD degree, and therefore, you're a doctor. Your patients and staff will call you doctor no matter area of dental medicine you practice. Generally speaking, however, you're referred to as dentist, but your title is "doctor". Is the title more important to you than the career/job? If your title is that important to you, I think maybe you need to rethink why you want to spend four years in medical school/dental school.

You also mentioned the money. An MD general surgeon would probably make more money than an OMFS, but I guess it depends on the geographic area where you practice. MD Surgeons make A LOT of money. After residency, they average around $250,000+ a year. The + can go up to...well, a hell of a lot of money. Specialized surgeons even more. I have no idea how much OMFS make, but I would think a general MD surgeon would make a comparable salary or even more depending on the area.

I think some OMFSs have both an MD and a DDS. Is that your goal?

If I were you, I would focus on the profession and schooling, not how much money you'll make and what your title will be or what people will refer to you as. I usually find that the most insecure people insist on being called "doctor", whereas the most competent and brilliant people let you call them by their first names. I have several associates who are MD-PHD, MD-JD, PhD-JD, and even PhD-PharmD graduates and they all go by their first names and don't need titles to boost their egos.

Last month I was at the tire shop getting my tire repaired. As I was going to pay, they called "Mr. Smith" to the people in the waiting room. This little sloppily dressed man yells back, "That's DOCTOR Smith!" Everyone stared at him for a minute. He came up to pay, next to me, and I glanced over at his checkbook and it said "DC" next to his name. In other words, he was a chiropractor. I don't know too many MDs or DDSs who would correct someone like that in public. I always introduce myself by my first and last name, sans title, when I first meet my patients.

Well said!

I always introduce myself by my first and last name, sans title, when I first meet my patients.

I plan on doing the same thing when I become a dentist. I don't need to run around calling myself Dr. XXXXXXX or correcting people if they call me Mr. XXXXXXX just to feel good about myself.

University of Michigan, B.A. in Government/Political Science, 1993
Medical College of Ohio, M.S., Biomedical Sciences, 1994
Michigan State University College of Human Med., M.D., 1998
Internal Medicine Residency, Sparrow & William Beaumont Hospitals, MI
Psychiatric Residency, University of Michigan Med. Center
Michigan State University College of Law, J.D., 2005


Good grief that's a lot of school.

Good grief that's a lot of school.

That's alot of michigan

I'm still laughing about how Dentists:thier patients as vets:dogs :laugh:


For sure on that one.

hey ProZackMI;

What are you planning to do with your MD/JD/pshychiatry degrees? thats very unique.

He doesn't have a psychiatry degree. He did a residency after medical school. He has an MD.

Last month I was at the tire shop getting my tire repaired. As I was going to pay, they called "Mr. Smith" to the people in the waiting room. This little sloppily dressed man yells back, "That's DOCTOR Smith!" Everyone stared at him for a minute. He came up to pay, next to me, and I glanced over at his checkbook and it said "DC" next to his name. In other words, he was a chiropractor. I don't know too many MDs or DDSs who would correct someone like that in public.
Wow, that's embarassing. That's one rude DC!

I always introduce myself by my first and last name, sans title, when I first meet my patients.
That's how I would introduce myself.

Personally it'll be "you can call me Steve or Dr. R------. Whatever you prefer." I don't need to be addressed a particular way. I don't really care.

I don't care either. I actually prefer my first name, but some feel that is unprofessional. But who the hell cares, right? :rolleyes:

You could do like one of our pediatric dentists and go by "Dr. *INSERT FIRST NAME*"

General surgery will be the only time I will work as little as 80 hours per week. Fortunately or unfortunately we are not currently held to this rule. Personally I think the 80 h work week takes away from your training.
What he said.

An MD general surgeon would probably make more money than an OMFS, but I guess it depends on the geographic area where you practice.
It doesn't matter to me, but I think general surgeons are actually around the bottom of the surgery pay scale. I seem to remember that specialty surgeons (Orthopedics, Plastics, OMFS, ENT, etc.) make more on the average. And no I don't have a link. But it makes sense when you consider that general surgery encompasses dealing with all the problems that specialists don't want to deal with.

I usually find that the most insecure people insist on being called "doctor", whereas the most competent and brilliant people let you call them by their first names.

I agree. Especially the "doctor" bit in everyday life. What the hell does your job have to do with anything outside of your hospital/office??

:o :o Sorry guys, but what is OMFS? :o :o

........I usually find that the most insecure people insist on being called "doctor", whereas the most competent and brilliant people let you call them by their first names....

Well said.

The people that loves you, care about you and will cry for you, don't care about what tittle you have.

So why care about the people that will only value because of your tittle????????

Don't study anything for money or status. You will regret driving to work "just for money" for the next 40 yrs!

Find your true passion. I did at 29 & with 2 children :D

:o :o Sorry guys, but what is OMFS? :o :o
Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery

www.aaoms.org

Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery

www.aaoms.org

:o Thanks a lot! :o :o

Do you even know what OMFS stands for?
what's your dat?

The one thing that really hit me was where you said:

If you're a general dentist, or an OMFS, you're still a dentist with a DDS/DMD degree, and therefore, you're a doctor. Your patients and staff will call you doctor no matter area of dental medicine you practice. Generally speaking, however, you're referred to as dentist, but your title is "doctor". Is the title more important to you than the career/job? If your title is that important to you, I think maybe you need to rethink why you want to spend four years in medical school/dental school.

You also mentioned the money. An MD general surgeon would probably make more money than an OMFS, but I guess it depends on the geographic area where you practice. MD Surgeons make A LOT of money. After residency, they average around $250,000+ a year. The + can go up to...well, a hell of a lot of money. Specialized surgeons even more. I have no idea how much OMFS make, but I would think a general MD surgeon would make a comparable salary or even more depending on the area.

I think some OMFSs have both an MD and a DDS. Is that your goal?

If I were you, I would focus on the profession and schooling, not how much money you'll make and what your title will be or what people will refer to you as. I usually find that the most insecure people insist on being called "doctor", whereas the most competent and brilliant people let you call them by their first names. I have several associates who are MD-PHD, MD-JD, PhD-JD, and even PhD-PharmD graduates and they all go by their first names and don't need titles to boost their egos.

Last month I was at the tire shop getting my tire repaired. As I was going to pay, they called "Mr. Smith" to the people in the waiting room. This little sloppily dressed man yells back, "That's DOCTOR Smith!" Everyone stared at him for a minute. He came up to pay, next to me, and I glanced over at his checkbook and it said "DC" next to his name. In other words, he was a chiropractor. I don't know too many MDs or DDSs who would correct someone like that in public. I always introduce myself by my first and last name, sans title, when I first meet my patients.


well you're now a lawyer and i believe you've got a confession out of me. once i finish either dental or medschool, i won't care so much about "prestige" any more. Also if i had a gf, i wouldnt care either. But now that i'm a ugrad(and i take it throughout the first few years of dental school), i care. i had some family friend talk to me about careers, a few years ago. He's an engineer. At the time that he talked to me, i didnt know at all what i wanted to do, so he professed some of his opinions. One of them was "dentists are like carpenters. they're not really doctors, they just take people for money". Of course i know now that he is wrong, and he didnt use the same exact words, he's more diplomatic. But the fact is people think if im going to dental school, i'm a medschool reject. Oh well. I'll still go to a dental school, i've made my choice. And though i feel insecure, it doesnt hurt me to get the most education possible. You mentioned that i should focus on schooling, and that's exactly what im doing from now on.

As for that guy getting mad and calling himself a dr. It has nothing to do with his pretentiousness, because he has nothing to gain in that situation, he doesnt even know those people... Being prestigious is when some family friend has a friend or whoever taking college courses and asks you general questions about what courses to take. And if you're a physics ph.d. or an m.d., then everyone values your opinion... Obviously everyone picks on chiropractors. He was certainly not acting like a gentleman by correcting someone in such a crude way. But i'm sure if he didnt do that, people would still seek faults in him. It's like girls when they like to let you down lightly say "you didnt notice me untill you saw my pic, pip", but in fact that fault would be overlooked if i had been a gentleman now.

Yeah and what others wrote about surgery. OMFS make more than general surgeons. But you didnt know that even though you've completed a residency! I guess that people on the streets think that dentists make less money than physicians and at the same time are more money grabbing(and prestige whores) than physicians!

Take a hike.

pip00: i wanna slap you with my dick...

edit: edited for content.

I guess that people on the streets think that dentists make less money than physicians and at the same time are more money grabbing(and prestige whores) than physicians!
Thanks ever so much for helping to fix the problem.

This guy is one of the best trolls I've seen in quite a while. It's almost refreshing to see somebody who knows how to do it right for a change.

well you're now a lawyer and i believe you've got a confession out of me. once i finish either dental or medschool, i won't care so much about "prestige" any more. Also if i had a gf, i wouldnt care either. But now that i'm a ugrad(and i take it throughout the first few years of dental school), i care. i had some family friend talk to me about careers, a few years ago. He's an engineer. At the time that he talked to me, i didnt know at all what i wanted to do, so he professed some of his opinions. One of them was "dentists are like carpenters. they're not really doctors, they just take people for money". Of course i know now that he is wrong, and he didnt use the same exact words, he's more diplomatic. But the fact is people think if im going to dental school, i'm a medschool reject. Oh well. I'll still go to a dental school, i've made my choice. And though i feel insecure, it doesnt hurt me to get the most education possible. You mentioned that i should focus on schooling, and that's exactly what im doing from now on.

As for that guy getting mad and calling himself a dr. It has nothing to do with his pretentiousness, because he has nothing to gain in that situation, he doesnt even know those people... Being prestigious is when some family friend has a friend or whoever taking college courses and asks you general questions about what courses to take. And if you're a physics ph.d. or an m.d., then everyone values your opinion... Obviously everyone picks on chiropractors. He was certainly not acting like a gentleman by correcting someone in such a crude way. But i'm sure if he didnt do that, people would still seek faults in him. It's like girls when they like to let you down lightly say "you didnt notice me untill you saw my pic, pip", but in fact that fault would be overlooked if i had been a gentleman now.

Yeah and what others wrote about surgery. OMFS make more than general surgeons. But you didnt know that even though you've completed a residency! I guess that people on the streets think that dentists make less money than physicians and at the same time are more money grabbing(and prestige whores) than physicians!

If you carry this attitude into dental school, you will most likely be one of those first students to drop out because you "don't like dentistry." Be forwarned, make an educated decision (you like dentistry) and not an emotional decision (i want to be respected).

-Mike

P.S. If you are truly worried about your physician colleage respect, it's kinda funny. Med students will somehow think you are 2nd class citizens during school (definetely happens), but talk to established physicians (especially internists) and tell them that you are going to dental school over medical school. Most likely, they will respond by saying to you that you've made a very smart decision.

Med students will somehow think you are 2nd class citizens during school (definetely happens), but talk to established physicians (especially internists) and tell them that you are going to dental school over medical school. Most likely, they will respond by saying to you that you've made a very smart decision.

very very true.

one of my professors told me that his twin brother went to dental school. at the begining everyone, including the twin, looked down upon him, and praised the one who got PhD in biochemistry. the professor himself told me that if he could do it over, he would pick dentistry in a heart beat.

It's a simple concept. Don't feed the trolls and they go away.


Let it die and he will go away.

Personally it'll be "you can call me Steve or Dr. R------. Whatever you prefer." I don't need to be addressed a particular way. I don't really care.

Yeah, but you're not a chiropractor! :) They are the only REAL doctors, right?

very very true.

one of my professors told me that his twin brother went to dental school. at the begining everyone, including the twin, looked down upon him, and praised the one who got PhD in biochemistry. the professor himself told me that if he could do it over, he would pick dentistry in a heart beat.

Comet joon, all the MDs that I know give me a pat in the back when they hear my choice. They too wish they could go back and go to dental school. They love helping people, but hate practicing in US....they are all under 40 yrs old.

There's only one OBGYN that's retired and says that he's happy with delivering babies. He's old and says that it was a "call"

My brother in law & his wfe are MDs and are worried about starting a family. They always tell me what a good choice I've made....not only that but I'm glad I had my kids in my 20's....now in my 30's is all about school once again ;)

Bottom line: if your heart is into dentistry then you are on the right track.

"dentists are like carpenters. they're not really doctors, they just take people for money". Of course i know now that he is wrong, and he didnt use the same exact words, he's more diplomatic. But the fact is people think if im going to dental school, i'm a medschool reject.

Listen, this guy is a complete and utter acephalic moron. Here's a few things for you to ponder, kid. First, in the United States, the word/title doctor immediately brings to mind a physician of any specialty. When the average person says, "I'm going to see my doctor," he/she is usually referring to an MD or DO, not a dentist/psychologist/pharmacist/vet/optometrist/whatever.

Americans have this misconception that "doctor" equates to physician. It most certainly does not. If one is a doctor, one holds a doctoral degree -- either professional (e.g., MD, DDS, DVM, PharmD, OD, PsyD, JD) or acamdeic (e.g., PhD, EdD, ScD, DA, DPH). A professional doctorate is 3-4 years of post bachelor's education, at the doctoral level, that involves minimal or no research proficiency, no dissertation, and upon graduation, a rigourous licensing exam. An academic doctorate involves intense research and a dissertation either post-bacc or post-master's.

Thus, in reality, a "doctor" can be a PharmD, DVM, OD, MD, PhD, EdD, JD (yes, even lawyers are doctors, but choose not to use the title), AuD, DPT, DPM, DO, ScD, DPH, DBA, DSW, DMin, etc.). Anyone who has an EARNED doctor level degree is a doctor. Period! No questions. If your degree says "doctor" in it, you are a doctor. Not a physician, but a doctor. The terms physican and doctor have been inappropriately merged in the US. You do not find this problem in Europe.

In fact, in many parts of Europe, medicine and dentistry are undergraduate degrees (England, Ireland, etc.). In Germany and other Germanic countries, if you say "I'm Dr. so-and-so", it will be assumed that you are a PhD or lawyer, not a physician. When you say, "I'm a physician", you'll get..."Oh, a mere body mechanic...not an intellectual."

Secondly, your family friend has it all wrong. I just explained that anyone with a doctoral degree, even a lawyer or chiropractor or pharmacist, is a REAL doctor. Now, of course a dentist is NOT a physician, but so friggin' what? How does that make you any less of a professional?

Thirdly, no intelligent person would ever say that a dentist is a med school reject. If that were true, that would mean that no one, at any time, would voluntarily choose to be a dentist. That only those rejected from medical school would stoop so low as to enter dental school. That simply is not true. No intelligent person would believe that. I guess that one episode of Seinfeld had an impact on you or your family friend. In every country, dentists are highly respected professionals who enjoy a great standard of living with great prospects for career development.

Gee, I wonder if all veterinarians, pharmacists, optometrists, chiropractors (well, this one is true!), podiatrists, physical therapists, psychologists, audiologists, NPs, and PAs are all med school rejects? I mean, why would anyone voluntarily choose to be a vet or optometrist or pharmacist? Come on, you don't really believe anyone would think that, do you? If you, I can let you know my hourly rate and we can discuss a tx plan.

As for that guy getting mad and calling himself a dr. It has nothing to do with his pretentiousness, because he has nothing to gain in that situation, he doesnt even know those people... Being prestigious is when some family friend has a friend or whoever taking college courses and asks you general questions about what courses to take. And if you're a physics ph.d. or an m.d., then everyone values your opinion... Obviously everyone picks on chiropractors.

The chiropractor acted like a public ass because he is an insecure little man and he feels that his title will garner him respect. Guess what, pip? In general, no one gives a rat's ass what your title is or what you do for a living. When I got pulled over for speeding last week, do you think the cop cared that I was an MD/JD? Do you think he was impressed by my lab coat sitting on the passenger seat with my hospital badge displayed? NO. I still got a ticket. Do you think my title gets me better service from Sprint when I have problems getting an upgrade for my cell phone? NO. Do you think my title gets me better service or even discounts from the vet I bring my cat to? NO! Unless I'm at work, no one cares that I'm a "doctor".

Only someone who is very insecure insists on being called doctor, especially outside of a work situation. If you are calling yourself doctor outside of work, you really have some serious ego issues.

Prestige does not come from college classes. Prestige does come from having the respect of others, but prestige is relative. Like I said, in the US, the title doctor connects with being a physician. If I say I'm a doctor, most Americans will assume MD or DO, not DDS/JD/PharmD/PhD. Here, in the US, we think physicians are revered and given a great deal of prestige, while we look at other professions with less prestige (optometrists, podiatrists, nurses, etc., are not respected as much). In Europe, physicians are often given much less prestige than in the US. In fact, in Germany, scientists and lawyers are given much more respect than physicians.

Prestige is also earned based on your reputation, character, and professionalism.

Very well said, Zack

Only someone who is very insecure insists on being called doctor, especially outside of a work situation. If you are calling yourself doctor outside of work, you really have some serious ego issues..

This is very true in the US. However, in many other countries it is the cultural norm that once you are a doctor of any kind, you are often refered to as Dr. XXX (your last name) and that is how you introduce yourself to others even when not at work. Even the wives say Dr. XXX when refering to their husbands in the presence of others. This may sound weird to some, but is it culturally accpted and widely practiced in many countries.

I wonder if the OP is from a country that such approch is practiced and that dentistry is not highly regarded yet; hence his insecurities of not being called a Dr.

If you carry this attitude into dental school, you will most likely be one of those first students to drop out because you "don't like dentistry." Be forwarned, make an educated decision (you like dentistry) and not an emotional decision (i want to be respected).

-Mike

P.S. If you are truly worried about your physician colleage respect, it's kinda funny. Med students will somehow think you are 2nd class citizens during school (definetely happens), but talk to established physicians (especially internists) and tell them that you are going to dental school over medical school. Most likely, they will respond by saying to you that you've made a very smart decision.

I'm an MD. If I had to do it over again, I would have gone to law school first and not medical school. Or, I would have gone to dental school. Although, personally, I kinda like the DMD designation over the DDS -- not sure why, but DMD is kinda unique and cool looking.

Seriously, though, I don't know many physicians who look down on dentists. I never have. I don't see why anyone would. No intelligent person looks at dentists as paraprofessionals.

Even the wives say Dr. XXX when refering to their husbands in the presence of others. This may sound weird to some, but is it culturally accpted and widely practiced in many countries.

I have a M.S degree. If I ever get married, I would prefer my wife to call me Master.XXX instead of Dr.XXX. :D
That's a cool culture! If my wife disrespects me then I could use that example! "woman, you better give me some respect! wives call their husbands Dr in some culture, you're lucky that I'm letting you call me by first name only!" :D

First, in the United States, the word/title doctor immediately brings to mind a physician of any specialty. When the average person says, "I'm going to see my doctor," he/she is usually referring to an MD or DO, not a dentist/psychologist/pharmacist/vet/optometrist/whatever.

Americans have this misconception that "doctor" equates to physician. It most certainly does not. If one is a doctor, one holds a doctoral degree --
very true!
I saw a movie in which a bunch of kids were having a party while their parents were out of town. One kid passed out due to od with alcohol and drugs. One of the kids yelled: hey, call your dad, he's a doctor. "man, my dad does research (meaning his dad is a PhD, not a MD/DO)", the other kid replied. I thought it was funny.

I don't understand what's the hang up with the "doctor" tittle! Imagine a cop introduces himself at a party/public places: Hi, I'm Officer Long John Silver, or a judge: Hi, I'm Judge John Public. It would seem like they have something to prove. You would be thinking to yourself: so? who you're trying to impress? what are you trying to prove?

...When I got pulled over for speeding last week, do you think the cop cared that I was an MD/JD? Do you think he was impressed by my lab coat sitting on the passenger seat with my hospital badge displayed? NO. I still got a ticket...
The amazing thing is that there are people out there who think that's how it works for some reason. I've never understood this rationale. If anything, I always hide any clues to my job because I think it works the other way around. If there's any sort of jealousy, you're more likely to get a ticket.

Even the wives say Dr. XXX when refering to their husbands in the presence of others. This may sound weird to some, but is it culturally accpted and widely practiced in many countries.
Now that's my kind of woman..."Another beer, Dr. Toofache? How about your slippers?"

That's a cool culture! If my wife disrespects me then I could use that example! "woman, you better give me some respect! wives call their husbands Dr in some culture, you're lucky that I'm letting you call me by first name only!" :D
Or you could just pimp-slap her like they do in some cultures.

I have a M.S degree. If I ever get married, I would prefer my wife to call me Master.XXX instead of Dr.XXX. :D
That's a cool culture! If my wife disrespects me then I could use that example! "woman, you better give me some respect! wives call their husbands Dr in some culture, you're lucky that I'm letting you call me by first name only!" :D

part of what i said above is also political. they call their husbands Dr. XXX in public to bring up their own status among other women; almost showing off. "i was so good that i married a doctor!!" At home, however, its another story.

pip00: i wanna slap you with my dick...

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Me too.

Zack, you are totally on the money. Bravo.

Me too.
You wanna slap him with jay228's dick?

You wanna slap him with jay228's dick?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

thanks to those of you with helpful advice. also it's interesting that in europe ph.d's/lawyers are revered while in usa physicians. might make for an interesting discussion about culture. but i think i just have lots of personal problems right now. and i dont care about prestige tonight.

Don't stress. Having personal problems is what being young is all about.

............. In Europe, physicians are often given much less prestige than in the US. In fact, in Germany, scientists and lawyers are given much more respect than physicians.

Prestige is also earned based on your reputation, character, and professionalism.

Where I come from is the same way. If you are a Dr in South America it means that you don't have much money. Medicine is very cheap, so Drs can't be well off as the American Drs. Also, who ever that becomes a Dr truly wants to help people and don't care about the rest.

Here.....well, my experience has been very different. Most people I know that are going to ned school are in for the status & money...ha! Wait until you see how much those student loans will be & how much malpractice insurance is...then talk to me about money darling! ;)

I met this mom at the store the other day. Her introduction was "my husband is a pediatric cardiologist at so & so hospital in Miami" In my head I was like >what a little woman!< I only replied saying: Oh, poor guy! He has to drive all the way there? :eek: 1 1/2 hrs each way.....

Geeeezzzzz, some people :eek:

I met this mom at the store the other day. Her introduction was "my husband is a pediatric cardiologist at so & so hospital in Miami" In my head I was like >what a little woman!< I only replied saying: Oh, poor guy! He has to drive all the way there? :eek: 1 1/2 hrs each way.....

Geeeezzzzz, some people :eek:
You could say something like:
You: would you and your cardiologist husband like to come with us to Jeb's mansion for a BBQ this weekend?
The mom: who's Jeb?
You (act casually): Oh, Jeb Bush, you know, THE Governor of FL. yes, he's my little brother. I used to wipe the snot off his nose when he was a kid! Oh, I'll have my limo driver pick up you up, say, 9ish?! :D

University of Michigan, B.A. in Government/Political Science, 1993
Medical College of Ohio, M.S., Biomedical Sciences, 1994
Michigan State University College of Human Med., M.D., 1998
Internal Medicine Residency, Sparrow & William Beaumont Hospitals, MI
Psychiatric Residency, University of Michigan Med. Center
Michigan State University College of Law, J.D., 2005
All that training sounds painful. Especially that part in law school when they remove your spine.

Not as bad as the part where they swap your heart out for that of a concentration camp guard.....

though this is off topic, and i adhere to that i am no longer interested in this topic. i must make another confession. my parents are from ussr and im not as ignorant as i seem. i just wanted to say that in ussr, professors were more respected than doctors, because they made similar wages but they got to travel to conferences and had 3months vacations, but most important of all, all their friends were also professors. but doctors might make more money because people would give them gifts as a 'thank you', most people would give a dr something like a set of china after a successful operation, but if the patient were some big shot(politician), he could give the dr or his friend or his family an apartment. but in the end, im full of it, there really werent any differences between classes. it was politician>>>>everybody else

and i just started reading books for entertainment, so i am in fact rather ignorant about all this. but i always thought that in europe, most scientists were borne very rich. they would do science for charity. i.e. set up a lab in his estate at his own expense and work for himself... of course he might take on a student, but the student would also have to be of the noble stock. the only thing that poor people could hope for is to work as dept store managers and then buy their own gas station or fishing trawler, they didnt care about education. and i think in europe, even today scientists make very little. hence, they're either very impractical or they just have a trust fund to support themselves. doctors even in europe make low 6figure salaries, which is not so bad.

as for me, i am just fine to go to dental school, im sure it's possible to go into academia as much as from a medschool, if i choose to do so. but right now i'll try to get the most out of my ugrad, because chances are, i wont be reading anything more advanced throughout my career than what ive doing in ugrad.

i just wanted to say that in ussr, professors were more respected than doctors.


I have heard this before from Asian students who revealed that PhD's in their home countries were treated akin to medical doctors and dentists for that matter. We have had this discussion before on SDN, and it seems to be a serious hang up for some people. Presitgue is really a superfluous endeavour that will never pay consistent dividends both monetary or personal. If you don't really want to do something or are just following along what you think others want you to do, then you are setting yourself up for disaster later in life.

Many child television stars find these things out the hard way, when their once famous existences have been reduced to filler for E television network. Choose a profession based on who you are and what you think is important, not on what others think. Public opinion is a very fickle thing. Just ask Manny Ramirez, hated one day and loved the next. Take care and GOD bless.

I love this thread, gets better every time.

Dental school is so brutal that unless you are truly motivated you will drop out, fail, or commit hari kari.

Hallow Fellow Bruin! So is this what you think about UCLA SOD?

Eeeeks. I'll bring a knife with me in September and learn how to hari kari. =)

thanks to those of you with helpful advice. also it's interesting that in europe ph.d's/lawyers are revered while in usa physicians. might make for an interesting discussion about culture. but i think i just have lots of personal problems right now. and i dont care about prestige tonight.

Hey Pip! As much as all the people that joked about you on this forum, and even I kind of did in a previous post, however I do compliment you on your bravery to make such a post. Your post is honest, and I appreciate that.

I don't know why so many people responded negatively toward you. As dentist/pre-dentist, most of us have experience that med school or dent school issue. Perhaps your op happen to press a button for most of us on this forum.

I will say this. For all the people who made fun of you and denigrated you in meaningless rude ways, they ought to examine where their comments are coming from.

So, Pip, thanks for posting. I do hope you make more posts like this. And you know what, I bet the moderators don't find you a bit offensive. So keep up those honest heartfelt posts.

For any of you out there that is reading this and may wonder if I'm being sarcastic; let me answer that question now, and say that I'm not being sarcastic.

I think this is true. The first week of dental school half the class wanted to go into ortho. After 4 years, 6 people applied and 3 got in. Being a gunner is an endurance race. You have to keep charging ahead and simply wait for everyone else to tire out. This is harder than it sounds.

I think the race is really until Step 1 is done, and then the rest is just a slow jog to the finish line.

I think the race is really until Step 1 is done, and then the rest is just a slow jog to the finish line.
Step 1? Are you planning to take the USMLE during dental school? ;)

Or you could just pimp-slap her like they do in some cultures.

lol.

Hallow Fellow Bruin! So is this what you think about UCLA SOD?

Eeeeks. I'll bring a knife with me in September and learn how to hari kari. =)

The #1 ranked student in the UCLA class of 2007 just left the school and transferred to Arizona. According to him it IS brutal. Bring that knife with you.

Step 1? Are you planning to take the USMLE during dental school? ;)


I can't remember what the first NBDE is called. I'm using Step 1 because I was using that as a studying resource.

It's Part 1.

The #1 ranked student in the UCLA class of 2007 just left the school and transferred to Arizona. According to him it IS brutal. Bring that knife with you.


http://www.win.net/ratsnest/archive-articles21/fog0000000384.html

The #1 ranked student in the UCLA class of 2007 just left the school and transferred to Arizona. According to him it IS brutal. Bring that knife with you.

I know Wes, he's a great guy and very smart, but I doubt he was #1 in our class. We've got several people in my class that are just plain brilliant. He had other reasons for transferring, which were likely personal and therefore not topics of discussion with his new classmates. I hope he has a great time at AZ, but to think that transferring to another dental school will avoid the challenges that are part of dental school is naive. Any school that isn't challenging makes me question what the students are actually learning. I'll miss Wes.

pip00: i wanna slap you with my dick...

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I get put on probation for calling someone a d-bag and this guy says this?

Wow, double standards = fun.

I feel like i'm in dental school.