The October 3 edition of American Medical News just arrived and has an article on the Median (Annual) Compensation for (Civilian) Physicians, with the latest data being from 2004. The numbers are for Primary Care and Specialists.

Here it is:

Primary Care: $161,816 (A 3.1% increase over 2003 :thumbup: )

Specialists: $297,000

Will the military pay you this?

but you get all those "intangible" benefits...like long periods away from home, being ordered around by nurses, doing jobs that you aren't trained for, etc....

Will the military pay you this?

Here are some numbers for a CDR/O5 with 10 years active duty:

Base pay - $5605.50 * 12
Housing allowance - $1700 * 12
Basic allowance for subsistence - $183.99 * 12
Board certification pay - $3500
Additional special pay - $15000
Incentive special pay for family practice - $13000
Variable special pay - $11000
Multi-year special pay (part of 4 year contract) - $25000

Total = $157373.90

Comments: At 15 and 20 years you will be making more than the average your posted. Some of the income (housing allowance, BAS) is tax free. If you are in certain locations (i.e., Iraq) when you get your medical bonuses those are also tax free. As a civilian you would have to pay for medical insurance for your family as well as pharmaceuticals and malpractice insurance. As a civilian you do not get a guaranteed retirement pension. The calculations do not include other benefits such as the VA home loan and GI bill for post-military training.

The equality of pay of FP's is about the same, whether active or civilian. At that point you have to take into consideration those intangibles such as deployments and such. If it's purely a money decision then stay out of the military.

IgD, the VA home loan and GI Bill aren't that big a deal to factor in. Not sure how much education a physician will try for after the military...the most common is a pilot's license. The VA sounds good but once you've bought a house or two you realize there are better mortgage options than the VA. It's good but not the best. The other problem is not every mortgage lender is adept at VA loans and a day before settlement it can be quite a bit unnerving to realize this......or basically have to handle the VA portion on your own because after all you were the military member and not the mortgage broker....

Your calculations are right on. However, you are presenting all those "pays" as gospel and that just isn't so. "Pay" can and is withheld for many stupid, political, "you pissed off the wrong person"....kinda reasons.

The equality of pay of FP's is about the same, whether active or civilian. At that point you have to take into consideration those intangibles such as deployments and such. If it's purely a money decision then stay out of the military.

IgD, the VA home loan and GI Bill aren't that big a deal to factor in. Not sure how much education a physician will try for after the military...the most common is a pilot's license. The VA sounds good but once you've bought a house or two you realize there are better mortgage options than the VA. It's good but not the best. The other problem is not every mortgage lender is adept at VA loans and a day before settlement it can be quite a bit unnerving to realize this......or basically have to handle the VA portion on your own because after all you were the military member and not the mortgage broker....

Your calculations are right on. However, you are presenting all those "pays" as gospel and that just isn't so. "Pay" can and is withheld for many stupid, political, "you pissed off the wrong person"....kinda reasons.


and lets not forget hours worked and quality of life in this comparison.

For my last 3 years in the USAF: hours worked/month...275-400 hrs
quality of life/job.......miserable

My current job as a civilian FP: hours worked/month...160 hrs
$120,000 yr quality of life/job.......wonderful


So as I stated in other threads; for a FP at least, the $$ may be comparable, but it was never really $$ that made most of us decide on military FP as a CAREER anyways...................heck, the USAF could have offerred me 300 grand a year, and HONESTLY, I would never consider going back to what the USAF decided way the way to operate a primary care clinic; take 1 tab of TOTAL CHAOS daily; take 2 prn, suppository.

IgD, the VA home loan and GI Bill aren't that big a deal to factor in. Not sure how much education a physician will try for after the military...the most common is a pilot's license.

"Pay" can and is withheld for many stupid, political, "you pissed off the wrong person"....kinda reasons.

1. If you don't have any money for a down payment (for example during internship) the VA home loan is a great way to get into real estate investing.

2. The GI bill is a wonderful benefit. I was just talking to a guy today who left the military after a GMO tour and used the GI bill to supplement his meager income during a civilian residency. The GI bill can also be used during a civilian fellowship.

3. I can only speak for the Navy side of the house but pay being withheld for subjective reasons is a myth. The Navy has a website where you can talk directly to the top to get your pay. The only time I've ever heard of pay being withheld is for disciplinary reasons. For example, failing the PRT an excessive amount of times.

1. If you don't have any money for a down payment (for example during internship) the VA home loan is a great way to get into real estate investing.

2. The GI bill is a wonderful benefit. I was just talking to a guy today who left the military after a GMO tour and used the GI bill to supplement his meager income during a civilian residency. The GI bill can also be used during a civilian fellowship.

3. I can only speak for the Navy side of the house but pay being withheld for subjective reasons is a myth. The Navy has a website where you can talk directly to the top to get your pay. The only time I've ever heard of pay being withheld is for disciplinary reasons. For example, failing the PRT an excessive amount of times.

1.Yes as long as the house is under $240k.

2. I'm sure you see how a guy who left the military after his GMO tour and needed the GI Bill is not a good example of why the military is a good choice....sure the GI Bill was there to help but he wouldn't have needed it if he hadn't gone in. He has a meager salary but no school debt so what's the big deal....right?

3. I can only speak for the Navy side and pay being withheld is a reality. Let's not say withheld....how about delayed till lawyers got involved.

1.Yes as long as the house is under $240k.

2. I'm sure you see how a guy who left the military after his GMO tour and needed the GI Bill is not a good example of why the military is a good choice....sure the GI Bill was there to help but he wouldn't have needed it if he hadn't gone in. He has a meager salary but no school debt so what's the big deal....right?

3. I can only speak for the Navy side and pay being withheld is a reality. Let's not say withheld....how about delayed till lawyers got involved.

2 docs in my clinic had the bonus pay threatened to be withheld. The exact conversation told to me went like this. The Major FP doc went to pick up his paperwork which needed to be signed by the Clinic Commander. the clinic Commander said he would need to talk this over with other people before he would be willing to sign it. In the end, he did sign it, however, just the idea that he would not just sign it right there on the spot when he knew how hard docs were working and this doc was our senior doc and had the most collaterral duties and still full enpanelment...it was another example of how Admin is clueless on how to handle personnel issues. Thankfully the Commander always signed mine on the spot without question, although, with all the "waves" I was making my last year, they may have changed for me too had I not separated.

2 docs in my clinic had the bonus pay threatened to be withheld. The exact conversation told to me went like this. The Major FP doc went to pick up his paperwork which needed to be signed by the Clinic Commander. the clinic Commander said he would need to talk this over with other people before he would be willing to sign it. In the end, he did sign it, however, just the idea that he would not just sign it right there on the spot when he knew how hard docs were working and this doc was our senior doc and had the most collaterral duties and still full enpanelment...it was another example of how Admin is clueless on how to handle personnel issues. Thankfully the Commander always signed mine on the spot without question, although, with all the "waves" I was making my last year, they may have changed for me too had I not separated.
Change the ranks to Navy and it's pretty much the same situation. However the "talk it over" lasted over a year.

Actually the VA loan is up to 340 K now, but in many parts of the country, you get a 1200 sq foot shack for that....

check that its:

VA Loan Rates for 10/13/2005


$0 Down Loans Up to $359,650