Yeah buddy! DC here I come! (Or atleast, Northern Virginia suburbs). Still have one more interview before I decide. Ah, as DocWagner said, the future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

Q

Hey, keep me in mind. I may be coming to DC in a few years!

Congrats on the offer... You owe us dinner with your attending salary!

Congrats! It seems like a lot of money now but just you wait... ;)

Thanks all.

Still have one more interview to go... then I gotta figure out this whole contract negotiation thing. I'm thinking of asking for a little bit more per hour, but dont' wnat to sound like an ass or greedy. I think I'm just going to say (assuming I still want to work at this first place and not the place I have to interview at) "If you up my hourly rate by $7.00, I will sign the contract right now."

Q

Congrats, on whichever way it goes! Sounds like there is no bad outcome here. Cheers; you've earned it.

Oh, and Chief Resident PGY 3.0 NT ME XP Pro Nerd. ;)

Yeah buddy! DC here I come! (Or atleast, Northern Virginia suburbs). Still have one more interview before I decide. Ah, as DocWagner said, the future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

Q
A) Congrats! Or rather, Strong work! :)
B)No offence to Docwagner but I believe it was Timuk3 who said that first
C)Everyone who visits SDN EM more then once a month needs to post a congrats and thanks to Quinn. Not cause he needs to hear it but because pathology is still kicking our butt! :mad:

Congrats!

It's good to know that there is a light at the end of this tunnel thing and it just might involve the ability to pay off all these damn loans!

Really, congrats!

Take care,
Jeff

Yeah buddy! DC here I come! (Or atleast, Northern Virginia suburbs). Still have one more interview before I decide. Ah, as DocWagner said, the future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

Q
Good to hear, Quinn. Congrast!

Good to hear, Quinn. Congrast!
Oops, I meant, "Congrats." /post pad :D

Yeah buddy! DC here I come! (Or atleast, Northern Virginia suburbs). Still have one more interview before I decide. Ah, as DocWagner said, the future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

Q

What's the starting salary?

First off, CONGRATS! :thumbup:

Secondly, tell us more about this job....Type of group, pt load, etc....Well, I guess you can wait until you make yor final decision, However, if you are having a tough time deciding, feel free to post up. You know we all like to put in our $0.02......

What a great feeling to feel "wanted", huh....Now for the fun part...Filling out your licensing, credentialling, and malpractice forms..... Quite the painful/tedious process....But you better get on it soon, for it can take months to get through it all....Then, just when you think you are on the home stretch, you got to start house hunting, finding a mover, packing, etc.....

Good luck!
Mark

Congrats, Quinn! :)

Congrats!

Oops, double post (pad) ;)

Congrats!!!! Now say good-bye to the nice warm weather.... :-D

Congrats!!

Congratulations. Some of our third years have also signed contracts or received offers. It is hard to believe that in less than a year from now I may be doing the same.

I'd like to add that it has been helpful to read about jobs, contracts, and group types on some of Quinn's & DocB's threads. Keep it up you guys. :thumbup:

you are a stud/studette. welcome home.

Congrats.. I cant wait for my time to come.. Seems so far away.. and oh BTW where is my interview offer?

+pad+

Congratulations Quinn! It's getting colder up here, but D.C. is wonderful.
Thanks for all your help over the years (especially coming from a D.O.)...let us know some of the details about the new job! :)

YEAH !!! :thumbup: :) :thumbup:

Bye bye to palms trees and coconuts, hello to greasy palms and political nuts.

Congrats! :cool:

What's the starting salary?
my brother was just offerred ~$90/hr. Is this good?

It's pretty good at McDonald's. I'd say it's low end for EM, depending on practice setting.

my brother was just offerred ~$90/hr. Is this good?
It could be good but only if it includes med mal, good benefits, some paid vacation, education reimbursement, etc. In other words it sounds low but if the extras add up it might be a reasonable deal.

I've asked you for advice numerous times in my med school career even though I'm not going into EM. Thanks for taking the time to respond each time.

Congrats Quinn. I just accepted a job myself.

Can't believe this residency gig is almost over.

It could be good but only if it includes med mal, good benefits, some paid vacation, education reimbursement, etc. In other words it sounds low but if the extras add up it might be a reasonable deal.

how much is med mal typically (what range)? Is it pretty variable state to state?

congrats Q!! :thumbup:

i'll be sure to put "go to Dr. Quinn if you have worsening symptoms or any other concerns" as the final line on all my clinic visits so i don;t have to worry about them being mismanaged :D :cool:

--your friendly neighborhood celebratory caveman

Way to go Q!

- H

how much is med mal typically (what range)? Is it pretty variable state to state?
To tell the truth I'm not even sure any more. The company I work for is self insured. Back when I was looking it was 30-50K a year but it does vary by region.

To tell the truth I'm not even sure any more. The company I work for is self insured. Back when I was looking it was 30-50K a year but it does vary by region.

wow, that really is ridiculous. i guess it could be worse, but i think i will hope to find someone that will pay it for me.

For comparison, in OK, med mal is about 24k/yr. (per our EMIG mentor). and avg. salary is 300k/yr.

and avg. salary is 300k/yr.

Please stop. Please. This is just ridiculous.

Average salary of 300K? Not a chance.

Congrats edinOH!

Thanks for all the kind words, all.

I haven't signed the contract yet, as I still have one more interview to go (and perhaps two). I should know where I'll be by Thanksgiving.

Q

Please stop. Please. This is just ridiculous.

Average salary of 300K? Not a chance.


Sorry, I meant to say salary + benefits package = ~300k. My bad. Avg. salary per hiim is apx. 250k. $120/hr x 40hr x 52 wk.

Either way, I didn't think it was that ridiculous. If you want to work four 12's for awhile to pay some bills, 8 extra hrs a week gets you 300k + benefits. Not bad for still having 3 days off.

In case you still want to argue, (which I anticipate), you are more than welcome to email with our EMIG advisor, a practiciing ER doc at Baptist who gave us the above figures for new hires.

Please stop. Please. This is just ridiculous.

Average salary of 300K? Not a chance.

I "know" the salaries of 5 friends and/or former residency colleagues, each of whom entered private practice, community based non academic last year. Their salary offers ranged from the low (and not accepted) of 250K to the high of 325K for 12 g-d 12 hour shifts per month!!! (Granted, in a wealthy area with a fantastic payer mix and a low med mal state - and yes, he took it). Most ended up in the 275-290K range. Given 3-4% per annum raises in start salary - 300K is not beyond the pale at all. I think the latest ACEP resource guide (traditionally a little "behind the times") has the average starting above 250K in most areas of the country.

- H

Shameless +pad+ (I'm getting near 1000 and can't help myself!)

- H

Congrats to Quinn and EdinOH!

For comparison, in OK, med mal is about 24k/yr. (per our EMIG mentor). and avg. salary is 300k/yr.

I'm an OU grad myself and my job is in OKC.

Your numbers are pretty close.

congratPADulations!!!!

Every major survey source has average income ~200K, 250K with all benefits included. While Im not arguing that you all have anecdotal evidence of "someone" making 300K plus a year, I also know a pain doc who makes 750K, and yet I dont claim that to be the realistic salary goal.

Not to harp on it because I also know a friend who started locally at 250K. Honestly, do you guys believe the average starting salary to be over 300? You are certainly closer to the subject than I am. Maybe I picked the wrong specialty ;)

Every major survey source has average income ~200K, 250K with all benefits included. While Im not arguing that you all have anecdotal evidence of "someone" making 300K plus a year, I also know a pain doc who makes 750K, and yet I dont claim that to be the realistic salary goal.

Not to harp on it because I also know a friend who started locally at 250K. Honestly, do you guys believe the average starting salary to be over 300? You are certainly closer to the subject than I am. Maybe I picked the wrong specialty ;)

250K plus benefits was the lowest offer I heard from graduates I knew (from different Midwest programs) last year. That offer was refused. Everyone of the five I know well enough to inquire regarding salary are claim to be at 275K plus benefits or higher. That said, each is in private group practice, no academic appointments.

- H

Yeah, I would guess that academic appointments and large, high supply areas would bring the overall number down.

for 12 g-d 12 hour shifts per month!!!


what is g-d? :confused:

goddamn?

By the way, what part of No. VA? Job offer with one of the iNOVA hospitals?

what is g-d? :confused:

"God D*mn" - trying not to offend :love:

- H

Congrats to Quinn and everyone else! Please keep the advice and stories coming.

goddamn?

By the way, what part of No. VA? Job offer with one of the iNOVA hospitals?
Don't want to say, yet, beause i haven't signed the contract yet and still have some more interviews to go, but yes I did interview at an iNOVA hospital.

You in nova?

Q

It's pretty good at McDonald's...
Not quite up to par with In 'N Out, though.

whats that? you are going to go work at the VA? Man, Id probably hold out...

congrats on your offers Quinn!

This data comes from ACEP Reference plus Resource Guide 2005.

MGMA's Physician Compensation and Production Survey: 2004 report based on 2003 data. The data is based on responses received from 1,876 medical groups across the country, representing 43,950 providers, including groups representing 621 emergency physicians.

Median 2003 salaries for emergency physicians, by years of experience in the specialty, were reported as follows:

1-2 years: $187,056
3-7 years: $209,548
8-17 years: $229,068
18+ years: $237,829

The greates variations in compensation are regional.
Median 2003 salaries for emergency physicians by region, were reported as follows:

Eastern $195,750
Midwest $235,449
Southern $276,247
Western $212,239

This pattern of geographic variation holds true for most specialties, as well as for primary care physicians.


Median compensation for academic emergency medicine physicians in 2003 was $178,000.

Median 2003 salaries by accademic appointment:

Instructor $149,000
Assistant $162,000
Professor Associate $164,878
Professor $183,303

This data comes from ACEP Reference plus Resource Guide 2005.

MGMA's Physician Compensation and Production Survey: 2004 report based on 2003 data. The data is based on responses received from 1,876 medical groups across the country, representing 43,950 providers, including groups representing 621 emergency physicians.

Median 2003 salaries for emergency physicians, by years of experience in the specialty, were reported as follows:

1-2 years: $187,056
3-7 years: $209,548
8-17 years: $229,068
18+ years: $237,829

The greates variations in compensation are regional.
Median 2003 salaries for emergency physicians by region, were reported as follows:

Eastern $195,750
Midwest $235,449
Southern $276,247
Western $212,239

This pattern of geographic variation holds true for most specialties, as well as for primary care physicians.


Median compensation for academic emergency medicine physicians in 2003 was $178,000.

Median 2003 salaries by accademic appointment:

Instructor $149,000
Assistant $162,000
Professor Associate $164,878
Professor $183,303

Thanks, I couldn't find my copy. Over the past 4-5 years (when I've been "close" enough to care), I've found the ACEP guide to be lagging quite a bit against what I heard new grads being offered. Is this just me or have other experienced the same. Q - what (in range terms) are the salaries being discussed this year? Is it the 187K from above or is it higher? Are those median stats somehow skewed downward or are they accurate (and I'm just friends with some lucky folks)?

- H

Full time in the DC area pays quite a bit less than my colleagues who are staying in the south (Florida/Georgia). I'm getting offers from $95-112 an hour (probably 160-190k) plus bonuses/incentives/401k blah blah.

One of my fellow residents is getting offers of 150 an hour PLUS benefits (i.e. not independent contractor) in Georgia... with stories of 30-70k bonuses q 6 months!

Another of my fellow residents who wants to go to southwest Florida (i.e. hurricane bait) is hearing $160 an hour as independent contractor.

Q

So, the survey is "off" as was proposed above, that is academic appointments and high supply areas driving down the overall median. That's what I thought. Not that 190K plus benefits is anything to sneeze at...

- H

Full time in the DC area pays quite a bit less than my colleagues who are staying in the south (Florida/Georgia). I'm getting offers from $95-112 an hour (probably 160-190k) plus bonuses/incentives/401k blah blah.

One of my fellow residents is getting offers of 150 an hour PLUS benefits (i.e. not independent contractor) in Georgia... with stories of 30-70k bonuses q 6 months!

Another of my fellow residents who wants to go to southwest Florida (i.e. hurricane bait) is hearing $160 an hour as independent contractor.

Q

when you say "incentives and bonuses" what exactly does that mean? are incentives like medical and dental coverage, etc? and what qualifies you for a bonus? also, from your quotes of $95- $112 per hour, assuming you work a 40 hr week, that translates to 180-215 K. So, 200 K + bonuses/incentives (depending on what these are what they are worth) isn't too shabby as a newbie i guess. :)

Incentives and bonuses vary from group to group. Some offer productivity bonus (pts/hr ABOVE expected 2.2 pph or RVU equivalent). Some also provide incentives for working proportionally more nights and weekends (increased hourly rate). Benefits include insurance, retirement, tuition reimbursement, etc. The big one to ask for is malpractice coverage (which as an IC is often your responsibility) and tail coverage (which you may need to pay for if you leave a group). Another huge incentive offered is guaranteed partnership. Some groups will expect you to work at a lower hourly rate for your first couple of years in a group and then you will be made partner in the practice, which means a hefty raise and group profit sharing. These can be tricky though (from what I hear) because you may or may not be guaranteed partnership.

I'm going to have heart failure if I have to look for a job in april... :(

Nice topic. I figure I will BUMP this to the top. Wondering if others have any input on salaries etc.

I know for a FACT that the down n' dirty South pays a $hitload of money... anywhere from $130 - 160 / hr EMPLOYEE (NOT IC!).
*sigh*

Q

To the sr residents on here. What sort of hours are we talking early on? 1800/yr or a different number. It seems to me that here in chicago docs tend to work at 2-3 different places. I am not sure if this offers some sort of economic advantage of what? Is it that they get better shifts that way? Wondering if one of you guys can explain this to me.

Ectopic - some groups staff two or more hospitals and if you are hired by one, you may work at several different facilities. On the flipside, some places can hire you for 12-14 8 hour shifts per month for $200,000 per year as an employee. If you want to work more, you can easily moonlight at other hospitals in the area on the days you are not scheduled. One of my mentors still works 26 shifts per month doing this and easliy makes $400 per year (but works like a resident). Salaries are definitely much higher in the south. I'm only halfway through residency and I have an offer for $320k per year (15 12 hour shifts/month)...

Niner,

Just wondering what state that offer is in? I dont want you to give out too much info but the state would be helpful.

Also are most of the benefits like 401(k) matching or pensions or what? I realize that I am way early for these topics but I am curious.

To the sr residents on here. What sort of hours are we talking early on? 1800/yr or a different number. It seems to me that here in chicago docs tend to work at 2-3 different places. I am not sure if this offers some sort of economic advantage of what? Is it that they get better shifts that way? Wondering if one of you guys can explain this to me.
One place I talked to had their "Full Time docs" at 1600 hours a year. One place that I am interested in has us at 1860 hours a year (5 weeks paid vacation). Yet a third place I am interested in, has us working ~37.5 hours a week for 45 weeks (the rest paid vacation).

Q

What kind of retirement benefits have you guys found?

I've seen some of the bigger corporations offering $40,000 pensions plus 401(k)'s. Can you contribute the maximum $15,000 to a 401(k), $4-5,000 to a traditional IRA, and get a $40,000 pension? Now that's some serious retirement benefits!

I need to bookmark this and come back in two years after my fellowship)

What kind of retirement benefits have you guys found?

I've seen some of the bigger corporations offering $40,000 pensions plus 401(k)'s. Can you contribute the maximum $15,000 to a 401(k), $4-5,000 to a traditional IRA, and get a $40,000 pension? Now that's some serious retirement benefits!
The amount you can dump in your 401(k) is irrespective of pensions etc. The issue of Roth IRA's is that once you have a certain level of income (like a doctors) you are no longer eligible to contribute.

Quinn, as far as "paid vacation" can anyone explain to me how it is paid if you are paid an hourly wage? Does this mean that lets say you are expected to work 40 hours per week at $100 per hour (to make the math easy) during your vacation you are still making 4K per week? I always assumed it wasnt that way. thanks for your help guys.

The issue of Roth IRA's is that once you have a certain level of income (like a doctors) you are no longer eligible to contribute.

Right, which is why I specifically mentioned traditional IRA's.

Right, which is why I specifically mentioned traditional IRA's.

you can only put money in a traditional IRA if you cant put money in a 401(k) i.e. if you are self employed or you choose not to do it through work.

you can only put money in a traditional IRA if you cant put money in a 401(k) i.e. if you are self employed or you choose not to do it through work.
That's wrong.

You can put money into a traditional IRA even while putting money into a 401(k).

I guess I should have said it depends on your income level.

http://www.statefarm.com/lifevents/retrad.htm

If you (and your spouse) participate in an employer sponsored retirement plan, your adjusted gross income level will determine how much of your contribution is tax deductible. The following table should help you determine the deductible amount:


There is a table on there which states that after you make 100K (married in 2007) you get no deduction. I.e. there is no benefit so you might as well put it in a regular savings.

I guess I should have said it depends on your income level.

http://www.statefarm.com/lifevents/retrad.htm

If you (and your spouse) participate in an employer sponsored retirement plan, your adjusted gross income level will determine how much of your contribution is tax deductible. The following table should help you determine the deductible amount:


There is a table on there which states that after you make 100K (married in 2007) you get no deduction. I.e. there is no benefit so you might as well put it in a regular savings.

Right, it's not tax deductible, but you are still eligible to make contributions.

Southerndoc,

Why would you do that if you could simply put money in a regular brokerage account? That way you would be under no restrictions. Right or am i missing something?

Why would you do that if you could simply put money in a regular brokerage account? That way you would be under no restrictions. Right or am i missing something?

There are tax advantages outside of a traditional investment account, but you really must know what you are doing. If you think your income in retirement will be lower (most people's are), then you can use a traditional investment account to do short-term trading, investment in bonds/CD's, and investment in money market funds. These are often taxed at traditional income rates. When you take withdrawals later in life, you will be in a lower income bracket and will thus pay less taxes on them.

The amount you can dump in your 401(k) is irrespective of pensions etc. The issue of Roth IRA's is that once you have a certain level of income (like a doctors) you are no longer eligible to contribute.

Quinn, as far as "paid vacation" can anyone explain to me how it is paid if you are paid an hourly wage? Does this mean that lets say you are expected to work 40 hours per week at $100 per hour (to make the math easy) during your vacation you are still making 4K per week? I always assumed it wasnt that way. thanks for your help guys.
From some of the contracts I've been offered, you just get "one weeks worth of salary" while you are off each week, so, yeah, you get 4k for doing nothing.

Q

I noticed in an earlier post that someone said something about "private practice". I am an MS1 so forgive my ignorance but how does one work privately in the EM field? I just figured everyone was working in hospitals (and thus public)

I noticed in an earlier post that someone said something about "private practice". I am an MS1 so forgive my ignorance but how does one work privately in the EM field? I just figured everyone was working in hospitals (and thus public)
"Private Practice" in EM mainly refers to those of us who don't work in academia.

I just turned down my first job offer. That was a strange feeling. It is nice to be wanted, buy a tie, get a few free plane rides and dinners at the fancy restaurants. Bye-bye ivy league academia, hello small town community hosp.

It really seems like there is a lot of work out there. After medical school and residency it is nice to finally choose where I want to live.

Thank you DocB for answering my question

Another question that I had was how does one get offers for interviews post-residency? Do you have to apply (just like normal) or is there a database where you put in your information and get contacted by those who need an EM physician

Add me to the list. Very large, democratic group in the south (not in NC).

Apollyon how is the pay.. ranges of course.. you obviously dont have to answer if you dont want to! Just curious on what the starting salaries are for the new guys!

Apollyon how is the pay.. ranges of course.. you obviously dont have to answer if you dont want to! Just curious on what the starting salaries are for the new guys!

Haven't signed the contract yet, so I have to keep the numbers under wraps for now.

Cool keep us updated when it is appropriate! Congrats BTW!

:thumbup: