this is not meant to belittle or anything like that. This is only a question of terminology. Do you consider podatrists to be physicians?

No

They are definitely doctors by way of their doctorate degree, but they are not physicians. That title can only be reserved for MBBS/DO/MDs.

I admit, I googled. :)

From Wikipedia:

Medicinæ Baccalaureus & Baccalaureus Chirurgiæ (MB BChir or MB ChB or MBBS or variations thereof) are the two degrees awarded after a course in medicine and surgery at a university in the United Kingdom and other places following the British tradition, such as Australian and New Zealand medical schools. In theory they are two separate degrees, but in practice the two are usually treated as one. The degrees are the British equivalent of the M.D.

Remind me of Seinfeld...
that being said, they perform surgery, they prescribe medications, etc., etc. They are foot doctors.
sd

It actually is not up to opinion to be decided - rather, it is a fact that DPMs are physicians...they are legally physicians in all U.S. hospitals...ask around. I am an MD resident and this is a fact. Yes, they only specialize in the foot and ankle, but they have been through medical school...all of it, same schooling as MDs and DOs, but more focus on lower extremity during the 3rd and 4th years. So, one can think differently, but the truth is that they are physicians.

Hmm yomama.. so are dentists physicians too? and im not talking about OMFS guys.. orthodontists etc..? Curious..

Don't know, I will only speak about what I know. Podiatrists go to school and sit in the exact same classes, same standards,etc...as MDs and DOs...they are in a Podiatric Medical program and legally are considered physicians, doctors of podiatric medicine.

Hmm yomama.. so are dentists physicians too? and im not talking about OMFS guys.. orthodontists etc..? Curious..

It actually is not up to opinion to be decided - rather, it is a fact that DPMs are physicians...they are legally physicians in all U.S. hospitals...ask around. I am an MD resident and this is a fact. Yes, they only specialize in the foot and ankle, but they have been through medical school...all of it, same schooling as MDs and DOs, but more focus on lower extremity during the 3rd and 4th years. So, one can think differently, but the truth is that they are physicians.


So they have different third and fourth year, but they have the same schooling as MD's and DO's? I think you contradicted yourself with those statements. ;)

missing the point...same schooling, meaning same amount of time and same general education. The pod students learn a little less about obgyn and a lot more about foot and ankle - they do the same thing 3rd and 4th year in that they rotate for those years as MDs and DOs...they do most of the same rotations as MDs/DOs, they just spend more of the time rotating in the foot and ankle specialty. Point is that they are physicians...thats all, no need to really argue or point out small silly differences, just the fact. Im not claiming they are qualified to do more than they are certified to do - just letting it be known that they are doctors of podiatric medicine and that makes them a physician. Im an MD, so this isn't just the view of a DPM, its the view of all out there...at least all who are educated and it is what it is.

So they have different third and fourth year, but they have the same schooling as MD's and DO's? I think you contradicted yourself with those statements. ;)

missing the point...same schooling, meaning same amount of time and same general education. The pod students learn a little less about obgyn and a lot more about foot and ankle - they do the same thing 3rd and 4th year in that they rotate for those years as MDs and DOs...they do most of the same rotations as MDs/DOs, they just spend more of the time rotating in the foot and ankle specialty. Point is that they are physicians...thats all, no need to really argue or point out small silly differences, just the fact. Im not claiming they are qualified to do more than they are certified to do - just letting it be known that they are doctors of podiatric medicine and that makes them a physician. Im an MD, so this isn't just the view of a DPM, its the view of all out there...at least all who are educated and it is what it is.

How do the orthopods feel about the DPM's? Are they better than the MD's in this area?

Personally I got no education about the foot except for the usual symptoms that can present in the foot blah blah - are they essentially orthopods for the foot?

missing the point...same schooling, meaning same amount of time and same general education. The pod students learn a little less about obgyn and a lot more about foot and ankle - they do the same thing 3rd and 4th year in that they rotate for those years as MDs and DOs...they do most of the same rotations as MDs/DOs, they just spend more of the time rotating in the foot and ankle specialty. Point is that they are physicians...thats all, no need to really argue or point out small silly differences, just the fact. Im not claiming they are qualified to do more than they are certified to do - just letting it be known that they are doctors of podiatric medicine and that makes them a physician. Im an MD, so this isn't just the view of a DPM, its the view of all out there...at least all who are educated and it is what it is.

No, I didnt miss the point, websters defines a physician as a doctor of medicine-a person skilled in the art of healing; specifically : a doctor of medicine, not a doctor of podiatry. Dentists focus on the same subjects the first two years, they just focus more on the teeth the last two, are they physicians?

Hmm yomama.. so are dentists physicians too? and im not talking about OMFS guys.. orthodontists etc..? Curious..

My father was a general practice dentist. His DDS stood for Doctor of Dental Surgery. The only difference in the first two years of his education between his and a med student's was that his gross anatomy didn't go into detail below the waist. Everything else (biochem, physio, patho, pharm) was identical.

While the semantics were of absolutely no interest to him (indeed, he wasn't bothered by such silliness after serving in the Marines in WW2), he periodically commented that future dentists should go first to medical school, then do a dental residency, rather than have separate and distinct dental schools.

No, you are wrong, they are doctors of podiatric MEDICINE..a DPM is their degree...and most certainly they are a "person skilled in the art of healing."
I don't know enough about dental school to argue whether or not they are physicians.

No, I didnt miss the point, websters defines a physician as a doctor of medicine-a person skilled in the art of healing; specifically : a doctor of medicine, not a doctor of podiatry. Dentists focus on the same subjects the first two years, they just focus more on the teeth the last two, are they physicians?

No, you are wrong, they are doctors of podiatric MEDICINE..a DPM is their degree...and most certainly they are a "person skilled in the art of healing."
I don't know enough about dental school to argue whether or not they are physicians.

So is a doctor of chiropractic medicine a physician? By your argument they are.

I am not arguing, I am telling you the fact - legally, in the medical arena..hospitals,etc., DPMs are indeed physicians. My comment on them being doctors of podiatric medicine was in response to your comment that left out the "medicine" part of their degree.

So is a doctor of chiropractic medicine a physician? By your argument they are.

I am not arguing, I am telling you the fact - legally, in the medical arena..hospitals,etc., DPMs are indeed physicians. My comment on them being doctors of podiatric medicine was in response to your comment that left out the "medicine" part of their degree.

You didnt answer the question? I am not a believer in "if its a law, it must be true" either. I understand the hospital priveliging issue. I am not a concrete thinker however. Agree to disagree.

I, unlike you, only speak to what I know - I am not completely familiar with the education and training of dentists nor chiropractors...and thus, Im not going to speak out of my ass - you can do as you please. DPMs have proven that they are capable physicians...period, end of it.

You didnt answer the question? I am not a believer in "if its a law, it must be true" either. I understand the hospital priveliging issue. I am not a concrete thinker however. Agree to disagree.

I, unlike you, only speak to what I know - I am not completely familiar with the education and training of dentists nor chiropractors...and thus, Im not going to speak out of my ass - you can do as you please. DPMs have proven that they are capable physicians...period, end of it.

Wow. Youre being pretty hostile, I wasnt trying to ruffle anyones feathers. Im not speaking out of my ass as you say, merely stating my opinion. That is okay right? I didnt say that podiatrists werent capable, or didnt contribute, merely arguing the semantics of the word physician. Definitions of words are in the way that people use them is all that I am saying.

Wow. Youre being pretty hostile, I wasnt trying to ruffle anyones feathers. Im not speaking out of my ass as you say, merely stating my opinion. That is okay right? I didnt say that podiatrists werent capable, or didnt contribute, merely arguing the semantics of the word physician. Definitions of words are in the way that people use them is all that I am saying.

what's yo's problem?!??

what's yo's problem?!??

I bet all the foot odors he has been exposed to have caused extreme irritability. In fact, I get irritable just thinking about foot fungus, bunions and clipping diabetic toenails.

Its actually state dependent. Podiatrists can call themselves physicians only in the states that have determined this is allowable. Second, even chiro's are able to call themselves physicians in some states. Its just a word, and it is not that big of a deal. The only thing though that bothers me is that if their school is so equal to MD/DO education, why do they then not sit for the same licensing exams? Why do they have such a statistically lower admission stats package than MD/DO? Its hard to find a professional field credible to practice medicine if they are not physicians of the entire body first and foremost. I used to work with a Pod that routinely asked me about simple things than ANY physician MD/DO would know....bottom line. Simple pharm questions, simple differential diagnoses....and it was just embarrasing. The Pods are good at feet, but we all know the feet are connected to the rest of the body!! And in surgery, not everything "dams up" at the mid shin. Medicine by its very nature is an art that treats the entire human, and Pods have found a way to circumvent having to take the long road to do a rather finite set of skills. No other specialists get this benefit, and thus this is the reason why Pods will never be seen as equivilant. They are the same as optometrists in most people's eyes. Pod should honestly become a branch of medicine...a subspecialty for DO's and MD's. The problem is that no one would want to do it. Do you think an MD orthopedic specialty in elbow medicine could exist that did not require the physicians to train in any joint other than the elbow? Hec now!! There are already foot and ankle surgeons who are board certified orthos in the general sense prior to pursuing this course. Same with hand surgeons....spinal surgeons....Everyone in surgery must start basic and narrow their focus after mastering the basics. Pods somehow got away without having to do this stuff. Shortcuts, low admission standards, lobbying to call themselves physicians...all has led to less credibility. Things won't soon change.

Wow. Youre being pretty hostile, I wasnt trying to ruffle anyones feathers. Im not speaking out of my ass as you say, merely stating my opinion. That is okay right? I didnt say that podiatrists werent capable, or didnt contribute, merely arguing the semantics of the word physician. Definitions of words are in the way that people use them is all that I am saying.

But they are capable and contribute, they must be physicians. So are plumbers. Didn't you get the memo? We are now to call them lavatory physicians.

The topic of a chiropractor or dentist being a physician has been brought up over and over again. Just a few thoughts for the debate, would you find a dentist or chiropractor working in a hospital? Many hospitals are now keeping pods on staff.

Also pods rotate through many of the same areas as MD/DOs (off the Region’s residency (St. Paul, MN) website pods rotate in these areas outside of podiatry with the MD residence and the U of M students: radiology, internal med, general surgery, orthopedics, plastic surgery, emergency med, occupational med and anesthesia).

Dentist and chiropractors are not required to go through a residency to practice; pods are required to go through at least 2 years of residency training.

Definitions of words are in the way that people use them is all that I am saying.

You say you are going off a definition but you discount the legal definition of a physician. Is this not a contraction?

Also, if you are claiming "public opinion" definitions then let’s get some eponics in here dawg. Most of the public that we (all podiatrists) see call us doctor. They ask about there health concerns, and I bet if I ask if their opinion they would say a podiatrist was a physician. Most of the time, only medical students and old school doctors look down their nose at pods. Those are the same people who look down their nose as DOs also.

I bet all the foot odors he has been exposed to have caused extreme irritability. In fact, I get irritable just thinking about foot fungus, bunions and clipping diabetic toenails.

I'm sure his problem is that you all look like ignorant asses. He's an orthopd that thinks his colleagues live in the 1800s and cast the chiropodist out of town for stealing business. Maybe he is the only one in this group that does not still practice bloodletting

this is not meant to belittle or anything like that. This is only a question of terminology. Do you consider podatrists to be physicians?

MD's & DO's are the only 2 types of physicians that have full medical/surgical privileges in EVERY state in the U.S.

You can call anyone else a physician, but they are actually only a "quasi-physician" because of my previous statement.

MD's & DO's are the only 2 types of physicians that have full medical/surgical privileges in EVERY state in the U.S.

You can call anyone else a physician, but they are actually only a "quasi-physician" because of my previous statement.

I was basing the definition off of the federal definition. Pods are list as primary care physicians.

I was basing the definition off of the federal definition. Pods are list as primary care physicians.

how can you be a "primary care physician" if you only care for the foot and ankle?? just curious, because it sounds like a contradiction to me.

how can you be a "primary care physician" if you only care for the foot and ankle?? just curious, because it sounds like a contradiction to me.

Pods can admit patients and yes they see patients w/ foot and ankle problems but if you come in with a calcaneal fracture and the hospital has a pod; they will admit and treat the patient w/o the need of another physician. And depending on the state, pods have a lot more freedom than most people think. Pods have a DEA number w/o restrictions. A lot the restrictions placed on pods are from hospital administrators, but I don't want to ignore the fact there are limited scopes in some states.

If you look at the health care system in a whole, a podiatrist is no different than a orthopod. You would not go to an orthopod for an STD, same goes for a pod.

Pods can admit patients and yes they see patients w/ foot and ankle problems but if you come in with a calcaneal fracture and the hospital has a pod; they will admit and treat the patient w/o the need of another physician. And depending on the state, pods have a lot more freedom than most people think. Pods have a DEA number w/o restrictions. A lot the restrictions placed on pods are from hospital administrators, but I don't want to ignore the fact there are limited scopes in some states.

If you look at the health care system in a whole, a podiatrist is no different than a orthopod. You would not go to an orthopod for an STD, same goes for a pod.

An orthopod can treat medical conditions outside of orthopedics as needed. This is not true for podiatrists.

What the heck are you talking about? If I have patient that comes in w/ blue-toe syndrome, which is usually a manifestation of atrial fib/embolic showering, I'm going to treat them. I will also refer them to a cardiologist just like an orthopod would. Do you think that a patient comes in w/ a systemic disease and pods ignore it? Seriously, think about it we are doctors not snake oil salesmen. Do you know how many systemic disease pods catch everyday that our physicians overlook? We are not trained circus monkeys there for you amusement. Wow, I guess I'm amazed by the lack of knowledge and ignorance in this thread. If we only treated foot and ankle then why is there no limit our DEA numbers?

Most good family practitioners will consult pods they trust and visa versa. If I am seeing one of your patients out of professional courtesy I won't step on your toes. If for no other reason, you won't send me you patients anymore. If you send me someone that I think has a systemic disease, I will bring it to your attention. If it needs immediate treatment, I will do what I can as I admit them to the hospital and wait for you. This is why it is called a health care network. I don't expect you to know everything about Charcot arthropathy, but I will expect you to listen to me when I tell you that I think this person has blah blah blah. We work together to treat the patient. Pods go way outside to foot to make diagnosis and treat illnesses. We prefer to do it w/ whatever specialty that pathology falls under b/c we are not experts on everything. Guess what no one is.

What the heck are you talking about? If I have patient that comes in w/ blue-toe syndrome, which is usually a manifestation of atrial fib/embolic showering, I'm going to treat them. I will also refer them to a cardiologist just like an orthopod would. Do you think that a patient comes in w/ a systemic disease and pods ignore it? Seriously, think about it we are doctors not snake oil salesmen. Do you know how many systemic disease pods catch everyday that our physicians overlook? We are not trained circus monkeys there for you amusement. Wow, I guess I'm amazed by the lack of knowledge and ignorance in this thread. If we only treated foot and ankle then why is there no limit our DEA numbers?

Just because you can catch any medical or sugical condition, doesn't mean you are legally qualified to treat said condition nationwide.

Orthopods can treat the whole body. You are not licensed to do so. Sorry.

Nobody is saying pods are not well qualified to do what they do. You guys are great with the foot. But that is it.

Just compare the training. The orthopod has done 4 years of med school including rotations in all the specialties. He then does an internship where works on the entire body. Follow this with 5 more years of training in orthopedics involving the entire musulo-skeletal system.

I appreciate the knowledge you have of the foot and ankle. And I am confident that you can recoginze the presentations of systemic disease that involve the foot and ankle. But, I think that your global understanding of the pathophysiology of the human body will be far less than your medical colleagues, who have studied the entire thing, in depth, for a longer period of time.

Are you a doctor? Sure. And very well qualified to do what you do. But, IMHO, you are no more a physician than a dentist, chiropractor or optometrist. You are a very qualifed provider of care for a single part of the body. To me, a physician is competent (or at least trained) in the care of the entire thing.

and from webster:
Main Entry: phy·si·cian
Pronunciation: f&-'zi-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English fisicien, from Old French, from fisique medicine
1 : a person skilled in the art of healing; specifically : a doctor of medicine

Here is some fuel for the flame war:

Comparison of entrance requirements for health care professions.

Doxey TT, Phillips RB.

Los Angeles College of Chiropractic, Whittier, California 90609-1166, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare U.S. chiropractic college admissions requirements with those of allopathy, osteopathy, optometry, podiatry and dentistry. DESIGN: Survey. PARTICIPANTS: The schools that participated in the comparison were selected based on their geographic location within the United States. The number of schools selected were 16 chiropractic college, 17 allopathic colleges, 16 osteopathic colleges, 16 optometric colleges, 7 podiatric colleges and 15 dental colleges. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Information collected from the individual schools included: (a) minimum number of undergraduate semester hours (toward a bachelor's degree) that are required on entrance; (b) actual percentage of applicants with a 4-yr bachelor's degree on entrance; (c) minimum GPA required on entrance and (d) actual average GPA of applicants on entrance. RESULTS: Averages were computed for each outcome. Overall, allopathic averages were highest and chiropractic averages were lowest for each of the four outcome measures, with the other programs scoring at varying points in between. CONCLUSION: Successful completion of preprofessional requirements may be an indicator for success within a rigorous professional curriculum. These data reflect overall differences between health-care professions on a very few entrance criteria. Further investigation is needed to understand the long-term impact of these differences as well as the possible economic or political factors that may be influencing these results.


Here is some data from this paper:

Type and Number
of Schools (selected from same geographic region)
Medical (17)
Podiatry (7)
Chiropractic (16)

% with
Bachelor's Degree
Medical 99.35%
Podiatry 89.40%
Chiropractic 42.25%

Avg. Minimum
GPA Required
Medical 3.16
Podiatry 2.76
Chiropractic 2.38

Avg. GPA of Enrollees
Medical 3.56
Podiatry 3.06
Chiropractic 2.90


Sum: "Podiatrists......at least we're not chiropracters.... ;)"

An orthopod can treat medical conditions outside of orthopedics as needed. This is not true for podiatrists.

I can't tell you all how many times I've had another service (i.e. ortho, surg., neuro, etc) ask how to manage a patient's medical issues. They may be theoretically able to treat, but are not that willing to go outside their specialty most times. In the same breath I will also say that while I can set and cast a broken limb, I will call ortho to check it out to ensure the bones are properly set, or diagnose cholelithiasis, then call the surgeon to do the operation, althought I've scrubbed in on many such procedures. We are a medical community that includes lots of specialists and subspecialists, who rely on the skills and training of our counterparts to complement our own skills and training.

I can't tell you all how many times I've had another service (i.e. ortho, surg., neuro, etc) ask how to manage a patient's medical issues. They may be theoretically able to treat, but are not that willing to go outside their specialty most times. In the same breath I will also say that while I can set and cast a broken limb, I will call ortho to check it out to ensure the bones are properly set, or diagnose cholelithiasis, then call the surgeon to do the operation, althought I've scrubbed in on many such procedures. We are a medical community that includes lots of specialists and subspecialists, who rely on the skills and training of our counterparts to complement our own skills and training.

It's not a matter of being willing to do something. It's a matter of legally being properly trained and qualified to do something. There is a clear delineation between DO/MD and DPM, since a DO/MD can legally treat any condition after a year of internship with subsequent licensure.

Pods can admit patients and yes they see patients w/ foot and ankle problems but if you come in with a calcaneal fracture and the hospital has a pod; they will admit and treat the patient w/o the need of another physician. And depending on the state, pods have a lot more freedom than most people think. Pods have a DEA number w/o restrictions. A lot the restrictions placed on pods are from hospital administrators, but I don't want to ignore the fact there are limited scopes in some states.

If you look at the health care system in a whole, a podiatrist is no different than a orthopod. You would not go to an orthopod for an STD, same goes for a pod.

"limited scopes in some states" should be "limited scopes in most, if not all, states". Pharmacists ( I am a pharmacist about to graduate from medical school) in most states are not legally bound to fill DPM prescriptions that do not relate to, for lack of the correct legal term, "foot, pain, or lower-extremity surgery-related" problems. This is much more strict than say a pharmacist being concerned that an orthopod (ok, just using orthopod as an example here--- no hate mail please) is writing someone's prescription for hypertension medications. Not that the right to write prescriptions defines a physician, but I think it does help make the distinction.

Carpster

In the same breath I will also say that while I can set and cast a broken limb, I will call ortho to check it out to ensure the bones are properly set, or diagnose cholelithiasis, then call the surgeon to do the operation, althought I've scrubbed in on many such procedures.

how do you get to set bones and perform cholecystectomies? are you doing FP?

p diddy

It's not a matter of being willing to do something. It's a matter of legally being properly trained and qualified to do something. There is a clear delineation between DO/MD and DPM, since a DO/MD can legally treat any condition after a year of internship with subsequent licensure.

Since it appears you are from Oklahoma I figured you would like to see the limit of a pod in your state:

Podiatric medicine is that profession of the health sciences concerned with the diagnosis and treatment of conditions affecting the human foot and ankle, including the local manifestations of systemic conditions, by all
appropriate systems and means.

I guess in your state they are physicians?

Also it has been brought up that dentist and chiropractors are under the same umbrella as us. Like I've stated before, some not all, pods sit next to DO/MD students and take the same test as those students. I am not disagreeing that MD/DOs have better training in the "whole body." As for the filling the scripts, pharmacists don't have to fill anything they don't want to, look at the whole debate w/ filling birth control.

My question is "Are old prejudice the basis for these laws and your opinions?"

Pods can admit patients and yes they see patients w/ foot and ankle problems but if you come in with a calcaneal fracture and the hospital has a pod; they will admit and treat the patient w/o the need of another physician. And depending on the state, pods have a lot more freedom than most people think. Pods have a DEA number w/o restrictions. A lot the restrictions placed on pods are from hospital administrators, but I don't want to ignore the fact there are limited scopes in some states.

If you look at the health care system in a whole, a podiatrist is no different than a orthopod. You would not go to an orthopod for an STD, same goes for a pod.

I always go to the orthopod for STD issues. :laugh:

[/B]

I always go to the orthopod for STD issues. :laugh:

Me too, but for some reason it still burns when I pee. I would go to on of two doctors depending on what you call your unit. If you call your dong a bone, you go to an orthopod, but if you are blessed to be able to call it a third leg, you should go to a podiatrist.

i absolutely view DPM's as physicians. I had the privelage of working with a podiatry group in junior high/highschool for years. I followed them to the hospital watched them to major ankle reconstruction surgeries under general anesthesia, club foot repairs, bunion repairs, endoscopic plantar fascia releases, accessory navicular removals (with subsequent reattachment of the tendon) etc....

these guys were amazing. As mentioned they have a DEA number, admitting privelages (these guys admitted to 2 hospitals, wrote their own orders etc...), had thriving clinical practices.

Not to mention I had 2 foot operation on both feet due to some orthopedic foot trouble in junior high and they were phenomenal. I would have become a podiatrist if Emergency medicine wasn't so darn cool.


I'm pretty sure that optometrists, chiropractors don't have DEA numbers and admit to hospitals and perform surgery under general anesthesia. Sounds quite similar to what physicians do? no?

enjoy the flame festivities! I match this week and am incapable of caring about much else.

later!

I believe optometrists can perform surgery in Oklahoma. The thing is this whole question is nothing more than a question of how strong orthopods are to hold back Pods and how strong ophtho is to hold back optometry. Optometry IMO is a lot like Pods, they do 4 yrs of "medical" school and can CHOOSE to do residency. I believe Pods have to do 1 yr, but opto can choose to do it. Generally there is less surgery related to the eye than Pods/feet.

Since it appears you are from Oklahoma I figured you would like to see the limit of a pod in your state:

Podiatric medicine is that profession of the health sciences concerned with the diagnosis and treatment of conditions affecting the human foot and ankle, including the local manifestations of systemic conditions, by all
appropriate systems and means.

I guess in your state they are physicians?

Sounds to me like they are foot doctors in OK.

Also it has been brought up that dentist and chiropractors are under the same umbrella as us. Like I've stated before, some not all, pods sit next to DO/MD students and take the same test as those students. I am not disagreeing that MD/DOs have better training in the "whole body." As for the filling the scripts, pharmacists don't have to fill anything they don't want to, look at the whole debate w/ filling birth control.

Who cares if you sat next to an MD in one class and took the same biochem test? That is not the definition of physician anywhere that I have looked!

The point is that you are a foot specialist. Period. All of your training has been relvoved around the foot and how disease affects the foot. To me, that doesn't mean physician, that means foot doctor. If you think foot doctor=physician, that is your perogative. But, by that argument you would have to include chiros and optometrists in your definition.

My question is "Are old prejudice the basis for these laws and your opinions?"

Old prejudice? Not from me. I just have a different definition of physician than you do. I think pods are great at being pods.

I believe optometrists can perform surgery in Oklahoma. The thing is this whole question is nothing more than a question of how strong orthopods are to hold back Pods and how strong ophtho is to hold back optometry. Optometry IMO is a lot like Pods, they do 4 yrs of "medical" school and can CHOOSE to do residency. I believe Pods have to do 1 yr, but opto can choose to do it. Generally there is less surgery related to the eye than Pods/feet.

Pods and optometrist are really different. Pod schools have to be connected to a DO/MD program. Pods have to do a residency. Most are 3 years but there are a few 2 year residencies left. I don't know the scope for an optometrist though. I’m sure the same debate rages btwn optometry and ophthalmology. I’m not qualified to comment on that, but if there is no residency than I don't think they are as similar as pods and orthopods.

If I have any vascular compromise I want no one else but vascular surgery and IR on my case not a podiatrist.

:thumbup:

You should see the average stats for acceptance to DPM schools. They are worse than Caribbean MD schools.

:laugh:

:thumbup:

You should see the average stats for acceptance to DPM schools. They are worse than Caribbean MD schools.

:laugh:

I’m done w/ this thread. My last thoughts are. One there are needs for change in some pod schools. I attend CPMS, the acceptance rate was below 17% last year. I tried to educate some of you but obliviously I sound have save my time. Good luck to everyone.

Funny that everyone is comparing podiatrists to orthopods, because it reminds me of what happened to my mom.

She had been having progessively worse pain in her wrists and feet over a period of about a year. The orthopod had her scheduled for surgery on her wrist, but she was still complaining that her feet hurt, and she was getting to the point where she could barely walk. He suggested she see a podiatrist about her feet, and she went to see one the week before her wrist surgery was scheduled. The podiatrist examined her feet, and noticed a patch of what looked like psoriasis on her knee, and asked if she did in fact have psoriasis. My mom thought that was an odd question that noone had ever asked her before, and answered yes, she'd had it for years. And so after further workup he made the correct diagnosis of psoriatic arthritis. My mom cancelled the surgery and the podistrist did some foot PT and referred her to rheum. Now she's on Embrel and her hands and feet are pretty much back to normal. And if she hadn't seen the podiatrist, she would have ended up with an unnecessary surgery from the orthopod and be no closer to the correct diagnosis, and maybe ended up with irreversible joint damage as her disease progressed untreated.

So even if they aren't technically physicians by whatever definition you're using, and even if they come in with lower premed GPAs or whatever, they can do very good work, above that of some "real" physicians.

:thumbup:

You should see the average stats for acceptance to DPM schools. They are worse than Caribbean MD schools.

:laugh:

if you want to talk about stats, pods are at the bottom of the todem pole (right next to chiropractors). pod schools will take anyone... they accept MCAT, DAT, LSAT, GRE, etc, etc. If you take the MCAT, just make sure you get 18!

I find this fascinating on some level.

All of you soon to be DO's out there should be the champions of other healthcare providers who are victims of outrageous generalizations and misunderstanding.

I mean let's be honest....If I were to poll the average nursing home population, church group, mall parking lot and I asked them:

who would you rather do your brain surgery? MD or DO.

Care to venture what most of the undeducated public would answer probably overwhelmingly?

Yes, would they be wrong.......ABSOLUTELY! Healthcare providers understand that MD's and DO are the same. Duh, but the general public have gross ignorance when it comes to that....look at all of the flaming MD versus DO threads (there is the public for you!).

My point is that you should be championing the group of healthcare providers you may be on staff with in the hospital someday or working in the OR next to you and sitting in the doctor's lounge with you after performing surgery or rounding on their inpatients.

I mean get off the high horses.

It always ultimately degenerates into look how low the stats for Pods are compared to MD/DO.
well, if you want to play that game DO stats are generally less then MD's. Nobody is talking about that b/c you are all too busy bashing on Pods.

So you guys need to get over yourselves.

later

let the flames rise!!

a side note: MD=DO . this isn't my point. You would think that DO's who constantly have to defend the questions like "are you a real doctor?" would understand the plight of podiatrists.

Cool story and great point...very true..definitely heard of similar stories.


Funny that everyone is comparing podiatrists to orthopods, because it reminds me of what happened to my mom.

She had been having progessively worse pain in her wrists and feet over a period of about a year. The orthopod had her scheduled for surgery on her wrist, but she was still complaining that her feet hurt, and she was getting to the point where she could barely walk. He suggested she see a podiatrist about her feet, and she went to see one the week before her wrist surgery was scheduled. The podiatrist examined her feet, and noticed a patch of what looked like psoriasis on her knee, and asked if she did in fact have psoriasis. My mom thought that was an odd question that noone had ever asked her before, and answered yes, she'd had it for years. And so after further workup he made the correct diagnosis of psoriatic arthritis. My mom cancelled the surgery and the podistrist did some foot PT and referred her to rheum. Now she's on Embrel and her hands and feet are pretty much back to normal. And if she hadn't seen the podiatrist, she would have ended up with an unnecessary surgery from the orthopod and be no closer to the correct diagnosis, and maybe ended up with irreversible joint damage as her disease progressed untreated.

So even if they aren't technically physicians by whatever definition you're using, and even if they come in with lower premed GPAs or whatever, they can do very good work, above that of some "real" physicians.

Bill, funny how you are on the pod forum trying to take back your words and make up for sounding like an idiot there...then you come onto this forum and try and be "cool" by bashing pods again...you are incredibly ignorant and apparently not very well educated.

Just because pod schools are easier to get into, does not mean that they produce physicians - yes, physicians- who are any less capable than those who are produced from MD/DO schools There are plenty of people that can get a high 30 on their MCAT and a 4.0GPA, but just do not turn out to be the greatest docs. The high stats for MD/DO school is due to a high demand...with that many applicants, you have to find a way to justify only accepting a small percent...this is why these types of standardized tests exist. If one can take the MCAT and get a 23, or even lower, and get into the school where they want to go...whether its an MD,DO, or DPM program....then they may have just as much potential to complete and succeed in the program as any other. If they can not get in with that score, than they can choose to study more, get a tutor, etc.. and get a 32+.....is this person now capable of being a better doctor maybe just 6 months later than when they scored a 23, just because they studied more this time for the entrance exam? In my opinion, no - they did what they had to do to get in and to fight for their spot. Yes, that means they are willing to work hard...but those who are not willing to work hard in pod school will weed themselves out as they fail. Its one thing to not do well on the boards...as you will be practicing in your profession what you learn in school - but who cares how well or crappy you did on the entrance exam....do you really think that the MCAT determines how great of a doctor one will be? So, point being, because there are not as many applicants for pod school, more get in and they do not have to try as hard to get in...big deal...they have to work just as hard as any MD/DO to graduate with their degree; it is not easier to graduate from a pod school than an MD/DO program.
As part of the future medical community, you all should really not be this ignorant..isn't it a bit embarrassing for you?


if you want to talk about stats, pods are at the bottom of the todem pole (right next to chiropractors). pod schools will take anyone... they accept MCAT, DAT, LSAT, GRE, etc, etc. If you take the MCAT, just make sure you get 18!

Bill, funny how you are on the pod forum trying to take back your words and make up for sounding like an idiot there...then you come onto this forum and try and be "cool" by bashing pods again...you are incredibly ignorant and apparently not very well educated.

Just because pod schools are easier to get into, does not mean that they produce physicians - yes, physicians- who are any less capable than those who are produced from MD/DO schools There are plenty of people that can get a high 30 on their MCAT and a 4.0GPA, but just do not turn out to be the greatest docs. The high stats for MD/DO school is due to a high demand...with that many applicants, you have to find a way to justify only accepting a small percent...this is why these types of standardized tests exist. If one can take the MCAT and get a 23, or even lower, and get into the school where they want to go...whether its an MD,DO, or DPM program....then they may have just as much potential to complete and succeed in the program as any other. If they can not get in with that score, than they can choose to study more, get a tutor, etc.. and get a 32+.....is this person now capable of being a better doctor maybe just 6 months later than when they scored a 23, just because they studied more this time for the entrance exam? In my opinion, no - they did what they had to do to get in and to fight for their spot. Yes, that means they are willing to work hard...but those who are not willing to work hard in pod school will weed themselves out as they fail. Its one thing to not do well on the boards...as you will be practicing in your profession what you learn in school - but who cares how well or crappy you did on the entrance exam....do you really think that the MCAT determines how great of a doctor one will be? So, point being, because there are not as many applicants for pod school, more get in and they do not have to try as hard to get in...big deal...they have to work just as hard as any MD/DO to graduate with their degree; it is not easier to graduate from a pod school than an MD/DO program.
As part of the future medical community, you all should really not be this ignorant..isn't it a bit embarrassing for you?

well as you can see a overwelming majority of people here agree that podiatrists are not physicians and they do not go to medical school. Their training is not equal to that of MD/DOs and it never will be.... their training emphasizes the foot and ankle and there will never be a need for it to be held to same standards that MDs/DOs are.

According to you, MCAT and GPA mean nothing. This is not true. Although, it definately is not the only thing that predicts a good physician, these are predictors... and probably the best objective predictors out there. It is why they are in place and have been in place for so long. You talk about someone improving from a 23 to a 32. If you look at the stats for retakers on the AAMC website you will see that is almost never happens. Statistically, retakers will only gain a few points, if anything at all. Yes, there is such as intelligence, and yes intelligence does have an effect on how good of doctor you will be. Is it the only predictor? No. Is the best predictor? Probably not. Is it the easiest to objectively measure? yes.

To say that it is just as hard to graduate from a pod school as med school is a gross understatement. Do you guys have to take the same boards? Are you required to master as much information as a MD/DO? Do your boards emphasize as much information? Do you take 3 different board exams? Do you take shelf exams during clinical years? Are you even required to master the information and techniques in your different clinical rotations that do not have to do with the foot? I didn't think so. The particular med school that I went to actually did research and found that most people below a 28 on the MCAT had difficulty getting through their curriculum, so their MCAT cuttoff is now 28. I have heard of other schools that also do this and came to the same conclusions.

To think that your training is in some way equal to MD/DO is pathetic. This is not to say that you are not highly trained in the foot and ankle and that you won't be a good foot doctor. This is not a bash on your profession, but only stating cold hard facts. Does any of this really matter? No. It probably isn't even worth arguing. But you really should not go through life with a chip on a shoulder because you could not score high enough on the MCAT to get into med school It isn't healthy.

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/examineedata/tables.htm

I find it amusing that the pods seem to think we are putting down the profession by saying they are not physicians. Frankly, it doesn't mean a lot who thinks what. My definition of physician is similar to the webster definition. Your's is similar to an insurance companies. Big whooop.

To get all offended is ridiculous. The fact is, you are (or will be) a foot doctor. Period. You are not going to be caring for the entire patient, and you are not trained to do so. Your schooling focuses on the foot and ankle, even if you do sit in the same building as the medical school, or sit in on a few of the same classes. You are a part of the health care team, but one with a very specific and limited role.

I would venture to say that your attempts to justify your profession and to make it something more than it is say a lot about your own insecurities.

I have absolutely no chip on my shoulder, no reason to...I am doing what I choose with my life and nothing would stop that....you know nothing about me and to say that I couldnt score high enough on the MCAT is a lame comeback for you....do you know me? know what I scored? you are a complete idiot and my guess is that you have no life, maybe little man syndrom, and just need that big MD/DO in hopes that someone might listen to you....and it just kills you to know that someone who has a DPM might be a better physician than you and might have just as much education than fellow MDs/DOs...because that might just make you not as special??

LAME, you are LAME and incredibly ignorant...and you must be incredibly dumb to have still not understood that pods are required to retain and learn the same amount of info as well as MDs/DOs...just that it is more info about the foot/ankle and less about other areas, does not mean that its easier...I dont know if you realized or if you have learned this yet, but the feet are connected to the entire body...the same blood runs through them that runs through the entire body...they have skin on them just as the rest of the body. Have you not learned anything? You are the pathetic and ignorant one who will be laughed at, and you will learn, if you ever make anything for yourself in the world of medicine, that DPMs are physicians who went to med school - dont care what they scored on the MCATs....know many of them who scored well enough to get into any med school they wanted. Again, the low stats have to do with number of applicants..its not that hard to figure out genius...kinda like a ****ty house that sells for more than it should just because the demand for that area is high!

I have better things to do than to debate this subject with idiots like you who know absolutely nothing... please dont go out into the real world with real doctors....do everyone a favor and dont treat any patients with this ignorant attitude of yours, you will be doing no good...oh, and remember, your feet are those things attached to your legs, which are attached to your whole body. No go play with your cigar bill and leave everyone alone.



well as you can see a overwelming majority of people here agree that podiatrists are not physicians and they do not go to medical school. Their training is not equal to that of MD/DOs and it never will be.... their training emphasizes the foot and ankle and there will never be a need for it to be held to same standards that MDs/DOs are.

According to you, MCAT and GPA mean nothing. This is not true. Although, it definately is not the only thing that predicts a good physician, these are predictors... and probably the best objective predictors out there. It is why they are in place and have been in place for so long. You talk about someone improving from a 23 to a 32. If you look at the stats for retakers on the AAMC website you will see that is almost never happens. Statistically, retakers will only gain a few points, if anything at all. Yes, there is such as intelligence, and yes intelligence does have an effect on how good of doctor you will be. Is it the only predictor? No. Is the best predictor? Probably not. Is it the easiest to objectively measure? yes.

To say that it is just as hard to graduate from a pod school as med school is a gross understatement. Do you guys have to take the same boards? Are you required to master as much information as a MD/DO? Do your boards emphasize as much information? Do you take 3 different board exams? Do you take shelf exams during clinical years? Are you even required to master the information and techniques in your different clinical rotations that do not have to do with the foot? I didn't think so. The particular med school that I went to actually did research and found that most people below a 28 on the MCAT had difficulty getting through their curriculum, so their MCAT cuttoff is now 28. I have heard of other schools that also do this and came to the same conclusions.

To think that your training is in some way equal to MD/DO is pathetic. This is not to say that you are not highly trained in the foot and ankle and that you won't be a good foot doctor. This is not a bash on your profession, but only stating cold hard facts. Does any of this really matter? No. It probably isn't even worth arguing. But you really should not go through life with a chip on a shoulder because you could not score high enough on the MCAT to get into med school It isn't healthy.

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/examineedata/tables.htm

The sure sign of losing an argument is the resorting to personal insults and name calling.

It is pretty clear to most people that podiatry is a small offshoot of general medicine. While I am sure your training is rigorous and thorough, I find it hard to buy your arguments that you learn "just as much as MD's, only it is just about the foot". Puhhlllleeassse. That is the point. You learn about the foot and ankle. That alone demonstrates that the breadth and depth of your instruction is really not comparable to medical school.

Instead of trying to justify how you are exactly like the MD/DO's out there, you should be emphasizing what you learn different, and how you are qualified to be foot and ankle surgeons. Your method of claiming you are the same merely makes you look insecure, and begs the question "if you think the training is the same, why didn't you just go to medical school?'.

The sure sign of losing an argument is the resorting to personal insults and name calling.

It is pretty clear to most people that podiatry is a small offshoot of general medicine. While I am sure your training is rigorous and thorough, I find it hard to buy your arguments that you learn "just as much as MD's, only it is just about the foot". Puhhlllleeassse. That is the point. You learn about the foot and ankle. That alone demonstrates that the breadth and depth of your instruction is really not comparable to medical school.

Instead of trying to justify how you are exactly like the MD/DO's out there, you should be emphasizing what you learn different, and how you are qualified to be foot and ankle surgeons. Your method of claiming you are the same merely makes you look insecure, and begs the question "if you think the training is the same, why didn't you just go to medical school?'.

:thumbup:

Seriously runnersfeet, dont worry about this. Its not worth your time, or anyone elses. Bill is a little insecure and maybe he didn't even get into pod school, shucks, maybe he is one of those that scored so high on the MCAT and still can't get in because he has no personality. :-) So who knows what his deal is. You heard from several on this forum that wrote in about DPMs being great physicians, some who have had more success from them than from orthos - which is certainly not impossible. There are idiots in every field, and Bill is certainly one. Thankfully, it is obvious that he does not really work in the medical field, much less is he successfull. If he were, he would not even bother trying to prove DPMs didn't go to medical school or are not physicians, as that would not hold up in a hospital. He would learn this as soon as he walked into a respectable hospital in the U.S.. So, as I actually have work to get done today, I am not wasting my time on this subject and I politely suggest that nobody respond any further to such naive posts as those from Bill. Let him go on wishing that he could be successful in medicine and lets all hope that no patient is ever made to actually listen to him and lets just get a good laugh that he actually thinks he has half of a clue. These forums are so entertaining!

I have absolutely no chip on my shoulder, no reason to...I am doing what I choose with my life and nothing would stop that....you know nothing about me and to say that I couldnt score high enough on the MCAT is a lame comeback for you....do you know me? know what I scored? you are a complete idiot and my guess is that you have no life, maybe little man syndrom, and just need that big MD/DO in hopes that someone might listen to you....and it just kills you to know that someone who has a DPM might be a better physician than you and might have just as much education than fellow MDs/DOs...because that might just make you not as special??

LAME, you are LAME and incredibly ignorant...and you must be incredibly dumb to have still not understood that pods are required to retain and learn the same amount of info as well as MDs/DOs...just that it is more info about the foot/ankle and less about other areas, does not mean that its easier...I dont know if you realized or if you have learned this yet, but the feet are connected to the entire body...the same blood runs through them that runs through the entire body...they have skin on them just as the rest of the body. Have you not learned anything? You are the pathetic and ignorant one who will be laughed at, and you will learn, if you ever make anything for yourself in the world of medicine, that DPMs are physicians who went to med school - dont care what they scored on the MCATs....know many of them who scored well enough to get into any med school they wanted. Again, the low stats have to do with number of applicants..its not that hard to figure out genius...kinda like a ****ty house that sells for more than it should just because the demand for that area is high!

I have better things to do than to debate this subject with idiots like you who know absolutely nothing... please dont go out into the real world with real doctors....do everyone a favor and dont treat any patients with this ignorant attitude of yours, you will be doing no good...oh, and remember, your feet are those things attached to your legs, which are attached to your whole body. No go play with your cigar bill and leave everyone alone.


i too think it is funny, as pruritis_ani does. You are forced to resort to inflammatory remarks because you are unable to argue with facts.

What I think is funny is how you refuse to acknowledge the facts presented. It is obvious you have a chip on your shoulder, otherwise you wouldn't care. You can attack me... but can you attack the 80% of people that have the same views? Can you attack the world? Yes, my friend, you do have a chip on your shoulder. :meanie:

I don't care what a person learns in the classroom. When M.D.'s finish four years of rigorous medical school, they aren't even close to being ready to practice medicine. When you add 3-5 years of residency working 60-80 hours per week (which is like 6-10 years of additional experience at 30-40 hours per week) it blows the other programs out of the water. Chiropractor took anatomy class? Pharm D studied a few diseases? Dentist took biochemistry? Podiatrist did a residency for feet? PhD psychologist took a pharmacology class and wants to start prescribing? Stop deluding yourselves- it's not the same. If you want to be a medical doctor then go to medical school.

Many Pods do residencies with orthos...they actually get the same training. I am in an MD residency in CA, and there are 3 DPMs here with the 12 MDs, all who are in my exact same program. They are held to the same standards as I am and do just as much work. They can take the other ortho cases in CA and other states, not just foot and ankle. Foot and ankle are their specialty, but in residency, they are trained to do it all as there are no hospitals that only admit foot and ankle problems. Do some serious research, or read up on how things are in the year of 2006, not just how things were in the 80's. You will learn how things are now and you should if you are going to be in the medical field, otherwise you will be giving false information.


I don't care what a person learns in the classroom. When M.D.'s finish four years of rigorous medical school, they aren't even close to being ready to practice medicine. When you add 3-5 years of residency working 60-80 hours per week (which is like 6-10 years of additional experience at 30-40 hours per week) it blows the other programs out of the water. Chiropractor took anatomy class? Pharm D studied a few diseases? Dentist took biochemistry? Podiatrist did a residency for feet? PhD psychologist took a pharmacology class and wants to start prescribing? Stop deluding yourselves- it's not the same. If you want to be a medical doctor then go to medical school.

Hey big shot, bill was the one that insulted the pods, so he must be the loser of the argument. The fact is that the DPMs go to med school and learn about the entire body and then they specialize in feet and ankle. As some pod on here said, the feet are connected to the body, and thus they need to know it all to be a specialist in the feet. Do ya really think they would let the DPMs do the surgeries if they did not know how the whole body worked? I am an MD, in residency in CA and I am sorry to say, but you are wrong; DPMs did go to medical school. Most that I have met did not want to go to an MD program because they wanted to specialize in the feet.

The sure sign of losing an argument is the resorting to personal insults and name calling.

It is pretty clear to most people that podiatry is a small offshoot of general medicine. While I am sure your training is rigorous and thorough, I find it hard to buy your arguments that you learn "just as much as MD's, only it is just about the foot". Puhhlllleeassse. That is the point. You learn about the foot and ankle. That alone demonstrates that the breadth and depth of your instruction is really not comparable to medical school.

Instead of trying to justify how you are exactly like the MD/DO's out there, you should be emphasizing what you learn different, and how you are qualified to be foot and ankle surgeons. Your method of claiming you are the same merely makes you look insecure, and begs the question "if you think the training is the same, why didn't you just go to medical school?'.

Hey big shot, bill was the one that insulted the pods, so he must be the loser of the argument. The fact is that the DPMs go to med school and learn about the entire body and then they specialize in feet and ankle. As some pod on here said, the feet are connected to the body, and thus they need to know it all to be a specialist in the feet. Do ya really think they would let the DPMs do the surgeries if they did not know how the whole body worked? I am an MD, in residency in CA and I am sorry to say, but you are wrong; DPMs did go to medical school. Most that I have met did not want to go to an MD program because they wanted to specialize in the feet.


Really? All the podiatrists I know of have a DPM, and therefore DID NOT go to medical school.

Have you looked at the curriculum? I have. There are a lot of similarites in the first 2 years. But, the last 2 years are completely different, and focus almost entirely on the foot and ankle. Remember, medical school lasts 4 years, and not 2. It is painfully obvious that the curriculum is VERY different when comparing the DPM and MD programs.

I don't know about you and your medical school, but at my school I learned FAR more in the clinical years than in the basic science years. To me, medical school WAS the clinical years. So, your claim is a bit ridiculous..."hey, 50% of the schooling is similar, so therefore I will call the training 'the same' ". Give me a break.

Many Pods do residencies with orthos...they actually get the same training. I am in an MD residency in CA, and there are 3 DPMs here with the 12 MDs, all who are in my exact same program. They are held to the same standards as I am and do just as much work. They can take the other ortho cases in CA and other states, not just foot and ankle. Foot and ankle are their specialty, but in residency, they are trained to do it all as there are no hospitals that only admit foot and ankle problems. Do some serious research, or read up on how things are in the year of 2006, not just how things were in the 80's. You will learn how things are now and you should if you are going to be in the medical field, otherwise you will be giving false information.

So, in your residency program the DPM's are taking call with the orthopods, doing the trauma, the spine cases, setting fracturs and pinning hips? Do they replace knees as well? They are there 80 hours a week for 5 years? If so, that is a pretty interesting DPM residency. I would love to know where it is so I can check out your far fetched story...

DPM's are allowed to operate on the foot and ankle and diagnose and treat foot and ankle disorders. That is the scope of practice. MD/DO's have no such limitation.

Hey big shot, bill was the one that insulted the pods, so he must be the loser of the argument. The fact is that the DPMs go to med school and learn about the entire body and then they specialize in feet and ankle. As some pod on here said, the feet are connected to the body, and thus they need to know it all to be a specialist in the feet. Do ya really think they would let the DPMs do the surgeries if they did not know how the whole body worked? I am an MD, in residency in CA and I am sorry to say, but you are wrong; DPMs did go to medical school. Most that I have met did not want to go to an MD program because they wanted to specialize in the feet.

That's kinda funny. Everyone knows that most people go to podiatry school because they couldn't get into medical school. Just take a look at the average stats.

If you want to work on feet, then become an MD or DO and go into orthopedic surgery, endocrinology, or psychiatry (foot fetish).

Many Pods do residencies with orthos...they actually get the same training. I am in an MD residency in CA, and there are 3 DPMs here with the 12 MDs, all who are in my exact same program. They are held to the same standards as I am and do just as much work. They can take the other ortho cases in CA and other states, not just foot and ankle. Foot and ankle are their specialty, but in residency, they are trained to do it all as there are no hospitals that only admit foot and ankle problems. Do some serious research, or read up on how things are in the year of 2006, not just how things were in the 80's. You will learn how things are now and you should if you are going to be in the medical field, otherwise you will be giving false information.

this guy is a hoax. he is one of these pod students alternate identity. there is no way he is who he says he is.... just read his posts. you can argue this point on and on and on... but the fact will remain: you will be a foot and ankle doctor, not a physician. you never went to medical school and you will never be accepted by the public as being equal to MD/DOs (in sense of professional standards). Podiatrists are a very valuable resource in the health profession and definately have their place.... in taking care of the foot and ankle.

you can flame all you want... i realize you have no facts to back up your case... so what else can you do? you may notice have not resorted to derrogatory name calling, unlike yourself. this is because i don't need to. i have only stated facts. may i remind you to take a look at the poll here? may i remind you to do any other resource? you have been proven wrong again and again, yet you still post nonsense. i think i am actually losing IQ points every time i read your posts! hahaha...

Nothing you have stated has been a fact, its your opinion and maybe the opinion of some people on this forum, but certainly NOT fact. Again, you are incredibly ignorant and quite stupid to think such things. Legally, DPMs are physicians..FACT.. go into a hospital and find out yourself. They went to med school - research the pod programs. It is hilarious that you are trying to argue against this fact with erroneous information.

this guy is a hoax. he is one of these pod students alternate identity. there is no way he is who he says he is.... just read his posts. you can argue this point on and on and on... but the fact will remain: you will be a foot and ankle doctor, not a physician. you never went to medical school and you will never be accepted by the public as being equal to MD/DOs (in sense of professional standards). Podiatrists are a very valuable resource in the health profession and definately have their place.... in taking care of the foot and ankle.

you can flame all you want... i realize you have no facts to back up your case... so what else can you do? you may notice have not resorted to derrogatory name calling, unlike yourself. this is because i don't need to. i have only stated facts. may i remind you to take a look at the poll here? may i remind you to do any other resource? you have been proven wrong again and again, yet you still post nonsense. i think i am actually losing IQ points every time i read your posts! hahaha...

You DID NOT/DO NOT go to medical school. You went to/go to podiatry school.

Yes, I did research it. Yes, there are some similarities, especially in the first 2 years. But there are just as many differences as there are similarities.

Your opinion that DPM's are physicians is certainly debateable. This is mainly determined by the actual definition of physician. In most cases the insurance companies will call you a physician, but IMHO, that is merely billing nomenclature. I notice that they also tend to call OD's and DC's physicians in that context. In the dictionary, physician tends to be synonymous with MD, which is the stance that most seem to agree with. Regardless, if you want to claim you are a physician and disagree with 75% of us, that is your perogative.

But, frankly, you look like a fool claiming that podiatrists went to medical school. I hope you don't tell people that you go to medical school. If you do, I am sure they are embarrased for you when they find out the truth. If you went to medical school you would be called a medical doctor.

I would say that it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. If by chance you are one of the many pod students that are there because you couldn't get into med school, that is too bad. You are still not in medical school. Sorry. Claiming you did makes you look like an idiot. If you are one of the relative few that went to pod school because you always wanted to, I would hope that you had more confidence and faith in your profession. At least enough where you don't have to go around claiming to be something that you are not.

Nothing you have stated has been a fact, its your opinion and maybe the opinion of some people on this forum, but certainly NOT fact. Again, you are incredibly ignorant and quite stupid to think such things. Legally, DPMs are physicians..FACT.. go into a hospital and find out yourself. They went to med school - research the pod programs. It is hilarious that you are trying to argue against this fact with erroneous information.

This is funny. You use the word "ignorant" in a post full of lies.

:laugh:

DPM's are "physicians" just like DC's, DOM's, ND's, and all other groups of people without medical licensure.

Me too, but for some reason it still burns when I pee. I would go to on of two doctors depending on what you call your unit. If you call your dong a bone, you go to an orthopod, but if you are blessed to be able to call it a third leg, you should go to a podiatrist.


:laugh:

Wake up and smell the stinky feet.

For the MD/DO's on the board, ask yourself this question...

When in your training did you really begin to learn how to practice medicine and treat sick patients?

For me that was without a doubt internship/residency.

I don't remember learning a whole hell of a lot about the practice of medicine in biochemistry or anatomy class. The argument "they all took the same classes next to the medical students" doesn't hold a whole hell of alot of weight with me. Medicine is more about judgement, experience, and leadership than it is about biochemistry and anatomy. Those are just required tools.

I have nothing against the fields of dentistry or podiatry or whatever. I'm sure they are very good at what they do. What does bother me is when people start throwing around the term "physician". Those that do that do it with less than honorable motives. They are trying to hold themselves out to be something they are not. Chiropractors are doing it. Podiatrists are doing it. Optometrist are doing it.

If you want to be a "physician", go to medical school and residency and become one. To do otherwise just cheapens the field of medicine and confuses the public.

We want to be podiatric physicians and thus we go to podiatric medical school and we do residencies....most residencies for DPMs are actually intertwined with ortho residencies..yup, with MDs and DOs...look it up. Its actually a great career...we get to specialize in exactly what we want - foot and ankle surgery - right from the start. No one is claiming that we are general practicioners...just physicians....as we go to med school for 4 years and then do a 3 year surgical residency and a fellowship if we then choose. Get a clue and learn about it before you speak. We are physicians, physicians, physicians, physicians...so funny that it makes you mad that we are physicians and that you would care enough to try and dispute it. The opinions on this forum are not fact...so this poll is just B.S...go into a hospital and figure it out yourself, it is just the fact....must make you insecure that there are other types of physicians than those who were in an MD program... makes it even more fun to say it...love that pods are physicians! Im really done posting now, this was just too funny to pass up!


For the MD/DO's on the board, ask yourself this question...

When in your training did you really begin to learn how to practice medicine

and treat sick patients?

For me that was without a doubt internship/residency.

I don't remember learning a whole hell of a lot about the practice of medicine in biochemistry or anatomy class. The argument "they all took the same classes next to the medical students" doesn't hold a whole hell of alot of weight with me. Medicine is more about judgement, experience, and leadership than it is about biochemistry and anatomy. Those are just required tools.

I have nothing against the fields of dentistry or podiatry or whatever. I'm sure they are very good at what they do. What does bother me is when people start throwing around the term "physician". Those that do that do it with less than honorable motives. They are trying to hold themselves out to be something they are not. Chiropractors are doing it. Podiatrists are doing it. Optometrist are doing it.

If you want to be a "physician", go to medical school and residency and become one. To do otherwise just cheapens the field of medicine and confuses the public.

We want to be podiatric physicians and thus we go to podiatric medical school and we do residencies....most residencies for DPMs are actually intertwined with ortho residencies..yup, with MDs and DOs...look it up. Its actually a great career...we get to specialize in exactly what we want - foot and ankle surgery - right from the start. No one is claiming that we are general practicioners...just physicians....as we go to med school for 4 years and then do a 3 year surgical residency and a fellowship if we then choose. Get a clue and learn about it before you speak. We are physicians, physicians, physicians, physicians...so funny that it makes you mad that we are physicians and that you would care enough to try and dispute it. The opinions on this forum are not fact...so this poll is just B.S...go into a hospital and figure it out yourself, it is just the fact....must make you insecure that there are other types of physicians than those who were in an MD program... makes it even more fun to say it...love that pods are physicians! Im really done posting now, this was just too funny to pass up!

....that can only treat the feet (unlike every DO & MD which can treat every part of the entire body, regardless of specialty)

There are certain unofficial rites of passage in becoming a physician. Events and experiences that every genuine physician had to go through regardless of final specialty. Have you ever delivered a baby? Did you rotate through psychiatry? How well trained are you to deal with end-of-life issues? I could go on but it's unecessary.

You do not have a genuine medical license (USMLE) and you are not a medical doctor (i.e. physician). You are a foot doctor. There are many kinds of doctors, including dentists and even geologists, but that doesn't equate to being a physician.

Give it up. Let it go. Keep your obsessions to yourself instead of openly parading them for anyone to snicker at. Try to take some pride in being a podiatrist.

Someone is down and not breathing! Quick- Get a podiatrist! (the real physicians just like any other physician)

There are certain unofficial rites of passage in becoming a physician. Events and experiences that every genuine physician had to go through regardless of final specialty. Have you ever delivered a baby? Did you rotate through psychiatry? How well trained are you to deal with end-of-life issues? I could go on but it's unecessary.

You do not have a genuine medical license (USMLE) and you are not a medical doctor (i.e. physician). You are a foot doctor. There are many kinds of doctors, including dentists and even geologists, but that doesn't equate to being a physician.

Give it up. Let it go. Keep your obsessions to yourself instead of openly parading them for anyone to snicker at. Try to take some pride in being a podiatrist.

Someone is down and not breathing! Quick- Get a podiatrist! (the real physicians just like any other physician)

Podiatrists are physicians that have the scope of everything that deals with the foot/ankle. Podiatrists are specialists in the entire lower extremity, as they get much more training in this area than your general MD/DO would. They are not physicians of the entire body, like an MD/DO, but would like to be recognized for what they are, physicians of the lower extremity with a current scope of everything with the foot/ankle in most states. But I believe this will change soon, and there will be a standardized scope nationwide in favor of Podiatrists. DPM students learn about everything about the human body, but do not do the same clinical rotations the 3rd and 4th year. They instead specialize mostly in the lower extremity. Then after graduating Podiatrists go onto either a 2 or 3yr Podiatric Medicine and Surgery residency that covers much more than the foot/ankle. Many in a three year will do most of the same things as the ortho MD/DO residents.

Wow! I didn't know that pods did surgeries, etc. I have been trying to get my hubby to go to one to have his igrown toenail permanently removed since the last surgeon he went to for it totally botched it up.
Most people in the general public don't know the difference, they just think they are docs who did a pod specialty. I didn't know they went to school so long... I got tons of applications in the mail after I finished undergrad. I just assumed it was like going to chiro school. This is an interesting thread.

I can see how some would just get their panties in a wad having the term "physician" be applied so loosely. In conversation pods are called "doctor" just like my uncle with a PhD in calculus, but it is just a terminology turf war, isn't it? I totally bow to pods for foot issues and have more respect for the seriousness of their training.
Somehow using the term "physician" still seems odd though. No less respect, however. It just doesn't fit with the traditional sense of the word.
(I have almost no respect for chiros though)

Podiatrists are physicians that have the scope of everything that deals with the foot/ankle. Podiatrists are specialists in the entire lower extremity, as they get much more training in this area than your general MD/DO would. They are not physicians of the entire body, like an MD/DO, but would like to be recognized for what they are, physicians of the lower extremity with a current scope of everything with the foot/ankle in most states. But I believe this will change soon, and there will be a standardized scope nationwide in favor of Podiatrists. DPM students learn about everything about the human body, but do not do the same clinical rotations the 3rd and 4th year. They instead specialize mostly in the lower extremity. Then after graduating Podiatrists go onto either a 2 or 3yr Podiatric Medicine and Surgery residency that covers much more than the foot/ankle. Many in a three year will do most of the same things as the ortho MD/DO residents.

Also, one more note I would like to add is that many of us DPM students choose to go into Podiatry for many different reasons that has nothing to do with not getting into a MD/DO program. Most everyone goes into it because they or a family member has had some significant problem with their feet at one point and have the passion to help patients significantly increase their quality of life. However, Podiatry has many bonuses that people do not really recognize. First of all, we do not have to be very competitive to be anything more than a primary care physician, we go right into our specialty of choice. We know someday that we can do surgery from the first day of class. The option to work only 40hrs a week and have a really good lifestyle is very promising. Also, we don't have to go through as many years of residency to become what we want. We have the option to successfully go into a private or multispecialty practice. For people like myself that was in the top of their undergrad with outstanding GPA's, can get really nice scholarships throughout their Podiatric Medical education. My tuition in 4 years will probably be 1/3 of the cost of a DO or private MD education. To me this is a plus.

Please leave the dentists out of this. It's funny that every time an insecure podiatrist/optometrist/physician starts a thread about who's got the bigger penis, dentists have to be mentioned. I also think that it's quite cool that dentists don't care to reply to such idiotic threads(well, with my exception obviously :D ) recognizing them for the absolutely trashy troll-bait they are.


.

this is not meant to belittle or anything like that. This is only a question of terminology. Do you consider podatrists to be physicians?

NO, Podiatrists are not doctors. They are people who wish they could be doctors but failed miserably at getting into a medical school...even a lousy D.O. school.

And belittle them as much as possible, because they can't get any lower than scrubbing feet all week.

Two of my interns on the General surgery rotation were dentists on the Oral Surgery track. They spent two years as interns and were practicing full scope medicine before continuing on to Oral Surgery. So the gulf between dentists and MDs is not that great.

in america, everyone is a doctor(from car mechanic on and up)

[QUOTE=greenbean;4082894]in america, everyone is a doctor(from car mechanic on and up)[/QUOTE

...and while we are still on our Allopathic pedestal....there are some states in America where impersonating certain professions (eg. a LAWYER) is a higher offense than impersonating a doctor. So, MD/DO/DDS/DPM...whatever, according to the law, which lawyers help write, a Juris Doctorate trumps us all.

MD and DO are so insecure about whether another profession is called "doctor" or "physician" it's pathetic. Personally, I really don't care what my patients call me as long as they pay their damn bill! Chiropractors are called "chiropractic physicians" says that right on my license at the door. Whipdedoo! That does not mean I am a medical physician and I do not claim to be one. Chiropractors are trained in full body diagnosis unlike other professions who are granted the use of the word "physician". We may have the lowest requirements of any doctoral program but not all of us are the bottom of the barrow. I know medical doctors who went to some of those Caribbean schools that are very intelligent and have landed residencies in very competitive fields. Just because requirements are low does not mean that the graduates are complete idiots. There is a weed out process in chiropractic school as there is in other doctoral programs. A lot of the low GPA, no undergraduate degree people are weeded out. We started with 130 students in my class and graduated around 50. Still, a few imbeciles get through.