View Full Version : Hospitalist, salary question
APACHE3 04-01-2006, 09:26 AM Ok, so I haven't even started internship yet, but I do get emails from headhunters looking for Hospitalist. I got one the other day, practice in the Savannah, hilton head area where they would pay the PGY-3 a 2,000 mo. stipend (during 3rd year) if he/she signs on to start after graduation. Thats like a 24,000 signing bonus. And if I remember the base salary was 170,000 with work incentives to boot. Is this atypical of hospitalist pay packages and specifcally, that PGY-3 stipend is sweet deal. Will this become the norm? :)
skypilot 04-01-2006, 10:09 AM Woohoo, Internal medicine here I come.
Benzo4every1 04-01-2006, 10:19 AM LOL
Over here where I be at, starting salary is 160K....I already thought that was a sweet deal :)
Mumpu 04-01-2006, 10:30 AM It's around 150 at university.
Ok, so I haven't even started internship yet, but I do get emails from headhunters looking for Hospitalist. I got one the other day, practice in the Savannah, hilton head area where they would pay the PGY-3 a 2,000 mo. stipend (during 3rd year) if he/she signs on to start after graduation. Thats like a 24,000 signing bonus. And if I remember the base salary was 170,000 with work incentives to boot. Is this atypical of hospitalist pay packages and specifcally, that PGY-3 stipend is sweet deal. Will this become the norm? :)
You will get many similar mailings from headhunters during your residency -- this package is pretty much on par with the stuff that I've seen. A general rule is that the further away from a major city you get, the more attractive the package. The "Savannah, hilton head area" probably means that the hospital is about an hour from each of those areas - they don't tell you the exact city for a reason. ;) Or maybe I'm just too skeptical -- I've never bothered to actually contact any of these headhunters.
I haven't seen the PGY-3 stipend offer before, but over the last couple of years I've mostly been throwing out these mailings without even looking at them.... But keep in mind that you can easily make 2,000 extra per month as a PGY-3 by moonlighting 2-3 shifts each month.
ucla2usc 04-01-2006, 01:10 PM How much do you think the teaching hospitalists make at university based residency programs? Their job seems pretty sweet...residents do all the leg work, and they just sit back, give advice, teach a little, and come in and shake the patient's hand like as if they were the president or something.
APACHE3 04-01-2006, 01:54 PM Well I get a lot of those mailings..and yes, it seems minimum is 160K + incentives, but occasionally I see a 150K + incentives. however, its WHERE the job is that ,matters. Ive seen some nice pay packages. Anyway, it was the PGY-3 stipend that caught my eye because I never saw that before and I would be curious if this trend catches on...I hope so!! Let the bidding begin..!!! I can make 2 grand a month moonlighting in PGY-3??/sweeeeet. :D
i've been seeing 150K guaranteed base salary in midwestern states. but of course, these are at community/private hospitals. i highly doubt you could make that at a university...you'd have more responsibilities and less pay.
DRDARIA 04-01-2006, 09:56 PM But keep in mind that you can easily make 2,000 extra per month as a PGY-3 by moonlighting 2-3 shifts each month.
Many programs don't allow moonlighting (the one I'm going to doesn't), and I suspect that it will become even more rarely allowed as programs try to make sure they are within the 80 hour rules.
BMore 04-01-2006, 10:20 PM Many programs don't allow moonlighting (the one I'm going to doesn't), and I suspect that it will become even more rarely allowed as programs try to make sure they are within the 80 hour rules.
I'm not sure moonlighting counts towards the 80 hours.
DRDARIA 04-01-2006, 11:04 PM I'm not sure moonlighting counts towards the 80 hours.
I believe it's supposed to, if it's at the same institution. Regardless, many institutions no longer allow it.
Benzo4every1 04-02-2006, 06:53 AM I'm not sure moonlighting counts towards the 80 hours.
it does.
endodoc 04-02-2006, 07:49 AM I'm not sure moonlighting counts towards the 80 hours.
I sure it does not count towards 80hr rule, since it is not part of residency program. Night float counts towards 80 hrs, but not moonlight. At least this is what i have seen.
As long as you have step 3 you are ok. You will have a eval. of your before and after, and if they see moonlighing is hurting your residency you will be booted from moonligting.
Mumpu 04-02-2006, 11:38 AM Like I said, I heard 145-150 for starters for academic hospitalists.
APACHE3 04-02-2006, 12:26 PM My program allows in-house moonlighting only and (at VA). and it does count toward 80 hr work week which is why you do most of this during a easy elective month. I'm IMG so I have to wait an extra year, while my US grad colleagues will be driving their new 'benz a year earlier!! :D
gutonc 04-02-2006, 01:29 PM Straight from the horses mouth (The ACGME FAQ): http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/dutyHours/dh_Lang703.pdf
Duty Hour Limits and Resident Moonlighting and other Clinical Activities
Question: Why does the ACGME distinguish between “in-house moonlighting,” which is counted under the weekly duty hour limit, and external moonlighting, which is not included?
Answer: The ACGME has two reasons for counting in-house moonlighting toward the weekly duty hours. First, it applies the same standard to all hours residents spend in teaching institutions, whether they are part of the required educational program or are spent moonlighting in-house. The second reason is to prevent institutions from inappropriately using in-house moonlighting to replace clinical service activities residents covered previously as part of the educational program. Second, the ACGME's purview extends to teaching programs and sponsoring institutions, but not resident activities outside of their educational program. Many perceive the ACGME does not have the right to curtail moonlighting or place all moonlighting hours under a weekly duty hour limit. In contrast, individual programs and institutions may prohibit or limit resident moonlight, and may do so formally via the resident contract.
Question: Our residents engage in “in-house moonlighting.” We are not clear which of the ACGME duty hour standards apply.
Answer: For internal moonlighting the only numeric standard that applies is the 80-hour weekly limit, e.g., the combined hours of residency education and internal moonlighting must comply be at 80 or fewer hours, averaged over four weeks. None of the other numeric standards (e.g., 10 hours rest period, 1 in 7 free of all programs responsibilities) apply. However, the expectation is that the residents’ total hours spent in-house will not exceed what is advisable from a patient safety and resident learning perspective.
Just FYI and all.
BE
madcadaver 04-04-2006, 01:09 AM If they are willing to pay that much just to get you to commit,
1. the job probably blows
2. I would carefully examine whatever you are asked to sign.
Remember the old adage about things that look too good to be true.
APACHE3 04-04-2006, 01:32 PM If they are willing to pay that much just to get you to commit,
1. the job probably blows
2. I would carefully examine whatever you are asked to sign.
Remember the old adage about things that look too good to be true.
Maybe, but I dont think living 30 minutes from Savannah nor 30 minutes from Hilton Head "blows". What I have found, is that US grads, like mirgatory animals, have the basic instinct that if they are not within the city limits of a place 850,00+, they have not made it, so they spurn these smaller town job offers leaving them for the non academics or the IMG's (like me). And since we both know there exist a doc shortage which wont be corrected in the next decade, I was hoping that this might be a growing trend. But, you may be right...
madcadaver 04-05-2006, 12:11 PM What you say about location is true. But there is a lot more to a job than location.
Would you think 160k + 24k signing bonus is good if you had to do q3 in house call? Or you had 5 days paid vacation a year? Or no health insurance?
Just read the fine print before committing.
APACHE3 04-05-2006, 01:07 PM What you say about location is true. But there is a lot more to a job than location.
Would you think 160k + 24k signing bonus is good if you had to do q3 in house call? Or you had 5 days paid vacation a year? Or no health insurance?
Just read the fine print before committing.
Absolutley...of course q3 would suck...And I will read the fine print and have my lawyer do it too. I am hoping that there will be a growing trend either from hospitals or private practices to offer more to us hospitalist. Actually I would encourage you to just cruise through the want ads, you would be amazed at the diversity of salaries and benefits offered. It would have to be a learning experience for your future negotiations, ..ok..see ya! Just to add..another job pays 150K yr, 26 weeks off!! thats what I said, 26 weeks off..maybe its a night hawk postion, I cant remember, but for some that would be a job from heaven, and personally night shift staff are cooler anyway!! :D
skypilot 04-05-2006, 06:36 PM Actually it is not that unusual as a hospitalist. You work 7 days 12 hours a day and then take 7 days off. 52 weeks a year comes to 26 weeks off!
Sounds like a tough schedule to me though.
TCOM-2006 04-06-2006, 02:03 AM does anyone have a good idea of what other responsibilities hospitalists at univ programs have other than teaching? i assume there may be some committee work - depending on how involved they are in the program. is there generally and expectation / demand for research / publication? i would also guess that they probably have to work more than 24 months a year if they have residents to take call / admit / write notes / orders, etc.
ekydrd 04-06-2006, 03:17 PM I wanna know how to get on those mailing lists. I've been in residency now for nearly a year and no such letters. Guess I missed that class or something.
Mumpu 04-06-2006, 07:38 PM I hope I never have to work 24 months a year... :p
Hospitalsts do a lot of systems and QI stuff, patient flow, etc. It's actually pretty interesting.
u_r_my_serenity 04-06-2006, 07:46 PM Sounds like a decent package but find out how much you have to take call. Private internists make much more. In Houston, for example, there are several private internists who make 300k per year but the risk is higher and they work hard.
APACHE3 04-07-2006, 12:31 PM Start at Hospitalistjobs.com from there you can link another 100 sites. Also Check out Society for Hospital Medicine which is the organization representing our new profession. PM Mumpu, he seems to be on top of things in the hospitalist world...
Mumpu 04-07-2006, 06:18 PM Not really but thanks for the compliment. :)
Sundarban1 07-23-2006, 07:38 PM About headhunters and hospitalistjobs.com, etc. Don't they (the recruiters) get some % of your salary if you get a job through them? I heard sometimes this is the case, other times you have to pay upwards of 30k for thier services...is this accurate? Or how does it work??
APACHE3 07-25-2006, 02:23 PM the fee would usually be paid by the firm looking to hire..not you. Hopefully you can find a job WITHOUT the headhunters and negotiate a better signing bonus for yourself as part of the savings the practice will get from not paying $30,000 to find you!!
chaya23 04-19-2007, 09:39 AM Hello Guys,
Do you think it's fair salary to work for 120K at Unversity Hospital?. Decent schedule, no niight call and 14 weeks off. any suggestion is much appreciated
thanks
sg
Mumpu 04-20-2007, 12:12 PM Salaries vary a lot by region. I've heard 140s for starting academic hospitalists in my neck of the woods.
MidwestMD 04-20-2007, 11:30 PM hmmm....$120K sounds kinda low. I'm assuming it's in a highly desirable part of the country or that the schedule is pretty cush. I just got an offer at a University program in the Midwest/East Coast for ~$158K (plus an additional $10K in bonuses if certain goals are met). 15 wks off but it's a pretty demanding schedule otherwise. I also know of another University program that offers $140K + $10K in bonuses and $10K in loan forgiveness. Hospitalists are the work-horses of University-based residencies in an attempt to off-load the 80hr work week...therefore we get worked HARD.
Sadly, we make more than Full Professors in Cardiology or ERCP-trained GI attendings at my home institution.
chaya23 05-01-2007, 01:37 PM thanks...need to research more on this
Biologyman 05-13-2007, 11:15 AM Hey, those guys over there at the pharmacy forum are saying they will be making 160k a year by 2010. What do hospitalists expect to make in 2010? Will there be more growth of hospitalist pay? Also, I have read on some job ads that in addition to the base of say 175k/yr, you also get paid for each patient you admit for like $70 per admission when you are on duty. Those of you who are already hospitalists, is that true? What are some of the incentives pakages besides the base salary?
MacGyver 05-13-2007, 12:31 PM I dont know about other places, but I do have a friend who is a hospitalist at Hopkins and you'd be shocked at how little he makes.
The base rate for Hopkins IM hospitalist service is only $50 an hour. That comes out to only about 100k for 40 hour work week average.
Apparently you take a huge pay cut for "serving at hte pleasure" of Hopkins. I imagine Harvard and other elite hospitals use a similar reasoning.
P.S. A nearby community hospital in Baltimore pays $80 an hour for hospitalists.
Mumpu 05-14-2007, 02:06 PM Base pay doesn't tell the whole picture. There is usually a significant clinical/performance component to the salary (which is an odd thing to do at a teaching institution but I suppose the Top 10 schools are not into the whole edumacation thing anymore, it's all about research money).
NDESTRUKT 05-15-2007, 11:21 PM It's hard to tell where the field of pharmacy (and medicine) will be going by 2010. Some say that retail pharmacy will go the way of computers more being relied upon. But who knows...
PharmD's are paid by a for profit corporation like Walgreens. They make sure the pharm tech counted the right number of pills and didn't put the wrong pills in the bottle. Big f-ing deal. It's a great job and if you work solely to make money, it's probably one of the best jobs. But there's more to that in life than sitting at a counter and dealing with angry customers.
idiotpathic 05-16-2007, 05:28 AM i second ndestrukt
however i wud go even farther and say i feel the same about cosmetic medicine and boob jobs and botox :)
socalmd123 07-20-2007, 04:53 PM I am with a hospitalist group in southern california and we currently offer a starting package in excess of 200K excluding benefits. Full partners make in excess of 300K and have a week on/week off schedule with a nt call on the seventh day.
Atlas 07-26-2007, 05:56 PM A local group in Akron is offering $150,000 base, full benefits, plus a production bonus that can "realistically" bring your first year annual income to $200-225K.
Has anyone had any experience with the compensation package of community hospitalists in Cleveland or InCompass Physicians?
Thanks.
Annette 07-26-2007, 07:19 PM 1st year- $144,000 for 151 hours a month, 4 weeks (140 hours) for vacation/CME. Middle of nowhere community midwest. Plenty of overtime available. Not an "ideal" group, but not bad either. Work load ok.
Sundarban1 08-14-2007, 06:13 AM Just curious, any word on whether there are plans to make a fellowship mandatory for hospitalists? I know people have thrown that idea around with no specific source, but just wondering if anyone has something concrete.
avendesora 08-17-2007, 08:41 PM Speaking from personal experience here, 140's is very accurate starting base for academics. There are incentives that will vary by program - ours are based on RVU's (the numerical measure of how much you bill).
For comparison, the private group across town starts at 160K and keep themselves understaffed so that the gunners can make over 200K by working extra. Both places are 7 on/7 off (work 26 weeks a year).
Other differences, we carry 12-15 patients, which is likely the max feasible in an academic center with lower quality nursing and the red tape of academics (your consults are seen by the student, then the fellow, then the attending - and none of them have financial incentive to work quickly). In the private world, that would probably be closer to 20 patients daily. If you have midlevels this number can be higher.
So the trade-off for me is: don't work as hard, have an academic appointment, interact with students/residents vs. make ~30 less.
Also remember that $140K in NYC or southern Cal is NOT the same as in west Texas or rural Georgia or what have you. Also remember that annual salary is not always a great measure of total income. For me, I have virtually no other overhead or expenses and get a 403B with match. If you start having to pay for health insurance or malpractice your numbers will start to not look so hot.
As to the question of a hospitalist fellowship - I don't really see the point. Coming out of residency I felt much better prepared to keep working in the hospital that I was was to go into my own office. Proponents of the fellowship, please rebut -- maybe it's something we should consider.
gutonc 08-18-2007, 08:41 AM As to the question of a hospitalist fellowship - I don't really see the point. Coming out of residency I felt much better prepared to keep working in the hospital that I was was to go into my own office. Proponents of the fellowship, please rebut -- maybe it's something we should consider.
Having just finished a 2 month outpt rotation at the start of my R2 year I would go so far as to say that perhaps a primary care fellowship is in order, rather than a hospitalist fellowship. My training as an intern was 85% inpatient (ward/unit/NF/ED/consult) w/ 6 wks of outpt stuff (1 month Onc, 1 month mixed, of which half was Derm). I started this year w/ outpt gen med and was in way over my head. I don't know what the hell to do w/ that ingrown toenail/chronic cough/stuff dripping out of your wang. I can manage your CHF exacerbation by seeing you every other day for the next 2 weeks (which I did) but had no idea how to handle the basics. I do now but it was a rocky couple of weeks at the beginning. Obviously people in PC tracks will have more experience w/ this than I did but they will still spend 50+% of their time on inpt rotations. IM residency is a hospitalist fellowship.
Of course, if you make people who want to do primary care do an extra year of training, the number of people going into primary care (already at a dangerously low level) will fall through the floor.
Geri_Gal 08-19-2007, 07:01 PM :(
Enjoy that while it lasts...
I can only see this decreasing hospitalist incomes:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/18/AR2007081800760_pf.html
Annette 08-19-2007, 07:59 PM I doubt it will decrease hospitalist salaries in the least. If anything, I can see a small argument for it increasing hospitalist salaries. There are not enough physicians graduating from IM residency to fill all the hospitalist positions available as well as for primary care.
The diagnosis that medicare won't pay for anymore are mainly preventable. My hospital has begun screening people on admission for MRSA colonization so that they can be isolated (and if an infection occures with it, reimbursed for care.) About the falls, I'm not so certain. Demented patients don't remember to ring for the nurse before getting out of the chair, and staff can only move so fast when the bed alarm goes off. Thank goodness, most of the patients move slowly to begin with.
The hospitalist fellowships are for people considering doing research. If you have had research training, it won't add much. It may put you directly into a directorship role, but I wouldn't count on that.
primadonna22274 08-20-2007, 02:34 AM I find this all rather encouraging.
I'm a PA who is finally fed up enough as a PA to go back to med school, applying for 08. I worked six years in family medicine, did a year of outpatient urgent care part-time while working in FP full-time, and have now worked in ED the past year. I think I have a pretty good handle on primary care problems. I also think I would LIKE hospital medicine. What I DON'T like is EM, but for now it's a good job that pays well and is flexible and would allow me to go to med school without amassing even huger debt than I already have from PA school.
Our hospitalists seem to be 50:50 internists and FPs. Do you all think one is a better preparation than another? Or should the ideal Medicine service include a smattering of both?
I've considered doing a hospitalist fellowship too, but that adds more time to an already long and protracted path to practice...not to mention I want to do an MPH which draws out my time another year.
I welcome your thoughts...thanks in advance.
Lisa
MidwestMD 08-20-2007, 07:52 AM After recently completing a residency in IM and after working as a Hospitalist now for 3 weeks, I would have to say that an IM residency better prepares you for this career than an FP one.
Having said that, it depends on what your end goals are. Do you want to be a Hospitalist forever (high burnout/turnover rate) or do you want a smattering of outpt medicine? Do you prefer academic or private hospitals? Do you like kids or are you ok w/ only taking care of adults?
Having trained at a large academic center and now working at another large academic center, you're exposed to a lot of complicated pts that come in through the ED, specialty clinics, and outside hospitals because your facility is the regional "mecca." Without a strong subspecialty background (something that you would find in many strong IM programs), you might get overwhelmed with the liver failure pt w/ HIV/hep C who's failed 2 transplants and is back for his 4 admission in as many weeks for abd pain/distention/diarrhea/ and skin rashes.
FP's deserve a lot of credit because they're breadth of knowledge is SO VAST. I think it's actually much harder to be a good FP than Internist, but they're better suited to outpt medicine. If you like kids and want to practice in a private setting, FP might be the right choice for you. If you prefer academics and sicker pts, then IM would be good to consider.
BMW19 08-20-2007, 04:28 PM I have to agree with Annette. An IM doc told me that for every hospitalist that comes out there are five jobs that need to be filled. When demand is high and supply is low salaries don't go down..... With the baby boomers coming into the mix there will be huge demand for hospitalists but a lot of people like the 9-5 outpatient lifestyle. Expect salaries to go up not down.
Plus the logic is faulty. Its like saying that interventional radiologists salaries will go down because medicare won't pay for adverse reactions to dye....
Silly logic in my humble opinion..
B-
:(
Enjoy that while it lasts...
I can only see this decreasing hospitalist incomes:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/18/AR2007081800760_pf.html
primadonna22274 08-20-2007, 07:09 PM I appreciate your insight MidwestMD.
I DO like kids (something I was utterly shocked to discover in my peds rotations in PA school). I've thought about Med-Peds residency because I think it would give me flexibility, but I'm not sure what those slots are going to evolve into.
I just don't like EM, or at least not long-term.
Hmmm....
thanks
avendesora 08-20-2007, 10:42 PM Our program only employs internists. I think that most academic places are the same. The other private group in town is also all IM trained. FP residency really isn't geared to learning hospital medicine - it's geared to being as efficient/effective as possible in the office. Not to say that there aren't awesome FP hospitalists out there - I'm sure there are. If you're going into residency with the intent to be a hospitalist, though, you would be better served in IM. If you like kids, do Med-Peds and try to find a place where you can practice both.
As to possible declining hospitalist income - There is currently a hospitalist shortage. Our program was not able to hire as many qualified people as we wanted to this year. Even the outlying "podunk" hospitals are hiring hospitalists. Among PCP's out there, most of the ones that don't already use hospitalists would like to. Things are definitely moving in that direction.
So, in this kind of buyers market, I doubt income will go down. I personally would not work for less than I make now.
In hospitals that have gone all-hospitalist, even if Medicare and pvt. insurers reimburse less, they will still have a need for house physicians. Whether this translates into hospitals running their hospitalist operation at a loss so that the subs can make money, we'll have to see. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out over the next few years.
copacetic 09-06-2008, 09:38 AM I dont know about other places, but I do have a friend who is a hospitalist at Hopkins and you'd be shocked at how little he makes.
The base rate for Hopkins IM hospitalist service is only $50 an hour. That comes out to only about 100k for 40 hour work week average.
Apparently you take a huge pay cut for "serving at hte pleasure" of Hopkins. I imagine Harvard and other elite hospitals use a similar reasoning.
P.S. A nearby community hospital in Baltimore pays $80 an hour for hospitalists.
this is how it works in academia. the more prestigious the institution the lower your salary will be no matter the specialty.
copacetic 09-06-2008, 09:44 AM A local group in Akron is offering $150,000 base, full benefits, plus a production bonus that can "realistically" bring your first year annual income to $200-225K.
Has anyone had any experience with the compensation package of community hospitalists in Cleveland or InCompass Physicians?
Thanks.
try to avoid jobs were they use production bonuses as incentives. these are usually just ways for the owners of the group or partners to make money off of your hard work
GassiusClay 09-06-2008, 10:21 AM Actually it is not that unusual as a hospitalist. You work 7 days 12 hours a day and then take 7 days off. 52 weeks a year comes to 26 weeks off!
Sounds like a tough schedule to me though.
Right. 7 days, 12 hrs/day is rough because usually hospitals like to squeeze the use out of you. The good dollars are usually a combination of not so good location and work schedule.
The main thing for all hospitalists is looking at the days on/off schedule and call schedule = basically hours worked per month. Plus, look into the census limit per hospitalist which includes current and new admits. If it's 20 per, enjoy your hellhole. If it's 15, it seems manageable for awhile, but my family friend dropped it after 3 years to open up his own practice and chooses to make less money. If it's 10, that's like nothing for 12 hours. I'm sure most of us have faced that intern year, but now without waiting for an attending to round.
Hospitalist can be cool, but I hear for a lot, it's not. But this is based on personal anecdotes from graduated seniors from intern year and others.
For all the IMGs, making money is not easy as one thinks. Plus, keep talk of Benzs and BMWs to a minimum in public. Our image is being bashed all the time in this country and many find the money mentality to be screwing us in public relations. For example, I had a patient during my intern year who spoke lowly of doctors with bad English and horrible bedside manners talking about cars outside in the main area. This is something we can't have as doctors.
andwhat 09-07-2008, 02:56 PM I am reading some very disappointing stuff here. I think that Hospitalist is a great lifestyle, admixed with a few rough nights.
Weekend nights are the roughest without a doubt.
We do not have 20 admits -- that is unheard of, and is quite easily burnout if you do that over a 12 hour shift. I would quit my first day if that were the case. I work at a community based program with a residency program, and medical students, population of close to 400,000.
We admit up to 12 admits per 12 hour shift maximum. I have come close to that number, but hope that I never do.
Yes University based programs typically want you to work like a dog, and not make nearly as much as you would at a community based program.
Community based Hospitalists are generally very happy, and the work is enjoyable.
Rounding days -- round on say 20 to 25 patients from 9 am to 1 or 2 pm (after hopefully efficient morning report from 7:30 am to 9 am) based on your speed, and efficiency. Nurse Practitioners and PAs tend to take more of the social admits, and people that have been in the hospital forever.
I take phone calls until 7 pm from the floor (maybe one or two maximum per hour -- I am actually in the gym at around 6:30 every day, after my afternoon nap), and on a RARE occasion go back to the hospital.
We all make a little over $200K plus bonus incentives that are quarterly, working around 40 hours a week. I actually have time to moonlight if I truly wanted to.
The work is not that demanding or difficult, we all loathe clinic and certain aspects of Primary Care. The politics of it are insane. Who in their right mind would actually work all day and night, and then clinic all day the next day, followed by being up again the following night. Primary care is rewarding, albeit complicated at times. It is difficult to run an office, albeit not impossible.
Admitting days as a Hospitalist are unpredictable -- and crazy as well as hectic at times, but overall not bad at all. Not nearly as bad as residency.
Why not work at your own pace, and be done when you want to be done, and not be burned out?
ER is burnout if you ask me. The 12 hour shifts that those guys pull off are extremely impressive. They are busy as you can possibly be, constantly multitasking -- drug overdose, comatose, MI, CHF, seizure -- something that I am glad that I can watch on television and not be directly involved in initially. I suppose if that is your personality, then that is great.
Urgent Care sucks almost completely. It's composed of everyone that is too lazy to either find a doctor, or go to their regular doctor. Everything that I loathed seeing in clinic, is what this is composed of.
Almost everything is a viral illness, and everyone wants an antibiotic. If you see a real case, you cannot deal with it and send it to the ER. Why? Because you do not have a CT scanner, or other sophisticated technology. The most ridiculous concept of Medicine that I have ever seen or heard of truly. PAs and NPs should do this only, not physicians. Not to disrespect NPs or PAs, but a physician should not act like "McDonald's" of Medicine. It is ridiculous.
TRUE twelve hour days are the admitting days, you truly earn your money those days.
You are admitting, rounding and discharging patients all in the same day.
However, there are backup doctors on the shifts also.
You can be either
1) dedicated rounding doctor seeing 15 to 25 patients per day, including new patients, discharges, patients that have been there for a while.
2) admitting doctor -- basically feels like being on call at times, admitting, rounding and discharging patients. Fortunately there is almost always backup. Not nearly as bad as it would be going solo. You take less than ten of these shifts per month. They really are not that bad at all, if you know your system very well. New patients, being either from the ER, from a Physician's office, new consults from Psychiatry or Rehab, or Ortho -- a couple General Surgery also.
3) shift doctor -- you are the backup doctor, helping out the admitting doctor -- taking New admits, Consults. You have to be careful though, because PRN doctors that take occasional shifts will suck you into extra work.
Overall Hospitalist life is great.
You have an answer for almost everything, unlike clinic --
"doctor, you may CLAIM that my sore throat is viral, but I am NOT leaving this clinic without an antibiotic"
"doctor you BETTER sign my FMLA papers even though nothing is wrong with me -- what do you think? Are you so stupid that you think that I will actually WORK for a living, instead of taking free money --- because of the disability you BETTER claim that I have -- otherwise I will see somebody else?"
"Doctor, hurry up and fill my Vicodin" (This patient just got a refill of Vicodin from the ER the night before) Sorry but drug seeking is NOT a diagnosis that I can get PAID for -- too bad that you refuse to go to the pain clinics which you got fired from.
"doctor, why can't you hurry up and determine why I have blurry vision and nystagmus?"
"doctor, are you freakin STUPID -- why can't you figure out what is wrong with my one month old with constipation for 6 hours over the phone?"
Life couldn't be better honestly.......
at the end of my shift, I don't need to do painful sign out. I just turn my pager off.
Talk about a great lifestyle..... leave the difficult cases for the specialists -- the Critical care doc in the ICU, the chest pain to the Cardiologist, the GI bleeder to the Surgeon and GI doc...
If you are a raging workaholic, go ahead and choose a busy specialty.
On call nights are not for me.
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