Obviously, I always introduce myself as a whatever-year medical student, and if a patient ever calls me "doctor", I immediately correct them on the spot.

However, what do you do when the allied staff call you "doctor"?

For example, I was reviewing a chart oustide a patient's room while pre-rounding, and the tech that was going into the room to check vitals casually said "Good morning, doctor". (I did nothing...)

I've also gotten into the habit of turning around expectantly whenever staff call out "doc".

Am I doing anything wrong? :)

nope

No, you are not doing anything wrong. Most people don't completely understand the heirarchy of the medical training system (think about how many patients think that students, interns, and residents are the same thing), and many people aren't certain when you officially become a "Doctor." So for them, it's easier just to call anyone who is part of their medical team "Doc" or "Dr." It can also be seen as a term of endearment or a nickname. If you ever watch war movies, you will notice that soldiers often refer to their enlisted medic as "Doc."

So my advice is just relax and accept it as a complement. But if you start introducing yourself as "Dr." prematurely, then that's a different story...

Technically you are a doctor - a student doctor. I don't think it is wrong to allow a patient to call you doc as long as you introduced yourself as student doctor ... it isn't like you can drastically change their treatment plan anyway.

Technically you are a doctor - a student doctor. I don't think it is wrong to allow a patient to call you doc as long as you introduced yourself as student doctor ... it isn't like you can drastically change their treatment plan anyway.


Interestingly enough...I hate the term "student doctor."

Interestingly enough...I hate the term "student doctor."


Really, I think it sounds better then med student. I guess its just preference.

Even better than being called "nurse." Especially if you're a female student/doctor. Oh why must people assume. :thumbdown:

Technically you are a doctor - a student doctor. I don't think it is wrong to allow a patient to call you doc as long as you introduced yourself as student doctor ... it isn't like you can drastically change their treatment plan anyway.

No, technically I am not a doctor!!!

If you want to be "technical" about it, the non-attending MDs (interns/residents/fellows) are the "student doctors".

Really, I think it sounds better then med student.

Yes, that is because it implies something that isn't true.

I actually hate that term very much. Until you have an MD (or DO, for our osteopathic friends), you are no doctor. I cringe whenever well-meaning residents or attendings introduce me in such a fashion.

There is nothing shameful about introducing oneself as a third-year or fourth-year medical student.

I think someone is being overzealous and trying to conceal their deep-seated hunger to be called doctor ;)

I think someone is being overzealous and trying to conceal their deep-seated hunger to be called doctor ;)

LOL, I'm not concealing anything. Show me a medical student who doesn't want to be called doctor?

And I will be, in about a year. But I am not one yet, and to be called one at this point - even with the "student" prefix - would be inappropriate, in my humble opinion.

Nah, I actually agree. I don't make a big deal about it, b/c like someone else said, it's not like it changes the course of their care unless you let a nurse execute your orders on the pretense of being a resident. But it does give me a little warm fuzzy when a new mom asks to take a picture of her baby with one of the "doctors" (surprisingly, they still take the picture after I correct them).

Nah, I actually agree. I don't make a big deal about it, b/c like someone else said, it's not like it changes the course of their care unless you let a nurse execute your orders on the pretense of being a resident.

Um, guilty! I'm doing an ER month now and usually work directly with the attendings - that is, no residents are involved in those patients' care. So after I present and we come up with a plan, I relay it to the nurse by verbal order and unsigned written order (because the attending is super busy)... Obviously, I'm exquisitely careful that all decisions have been cleared by the attending.

ahhh that's cool. I got to do that a little on my surgery rotation at the VA. You know you're green when you think twice about ordering SCDs.

Obviously, I always introduce myself as a whatever-year medical student, and if a patient ever calls me "doctor", I immediately correct them on the spot.

However, what do you do when the allied staff call you "doctor"?

For example, I was reviewing a chart oustide a patient's room while pre-rounding, and the tech that was going into the room to check vitals casually said "Good morning, doctor". (I did nothing...)

I've also gotten into the habit of turning around expectantly whenever staff call out "doc".

Am I doing anything wrong? :)

Come on man. Just laugh it off and don't worry about it. Consider it flattery whatever. When I was a on wards I use to get that all the time. Nurses would come up to me usually for orders, pts would be hey doc, as long as they don't think that whatever you are doing you are not doing in capacity of a doctor. You are A ok.

No, technically I am not a doctor!!!

If you want to be "technical" about it, the non-attending MDs (interns/residents/fellows) are the "student doctors".



Yes, that is because it implies something that isn't true.

I actually hate that term very much. Until you have an MD (or DO, for our osteopathic friends), you are no doctor. I cringe whenever well-meaning residents or attendings introduce me in such a fashion.

There is nothing shameful about introducing oneself as a third-year or fourth-year medical student.



Wow - guess I hit a nerve. Dude, chill out and get a grip. Seriously, you are way too worked up over something that really isn't important at all. Everyone else in the hospital - nurses, phlebotomists, techs and janitors - know who you are (a med student). Believe me, having the patient think you are on their care team, and accidentally calling you doctor, doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things.

On every rotation I've ever been on, the attending will walk in the room and introduce himself/herself and then us as the medical team (students, interns and residents) and a few times the attendings have introduced us, the students, as doctors. Did I go back and correct him/her? Nope b/c it would be a total waste of my time b/c everyone else knows I'm not by that short white coat that I wear.

Saying that I'm X, student doctor isn't wrong. I AM A STUDENT DOCTOR. I just prefer it to medical student - it's just a preference no hidden agendas. I am actually very comforted by being a student still b/c I know I am not ready to be the one making the decisions yet.

The faculty at our school (in the basic science years) have tried to teach us to steer clear of the "student doctor" term and opt for "medical student" instead with the idea being that the former term may imply that the student has more training/knowledge/skill/competence than in reality.

Obviously, I always introduce myself as a whatever-year medical student, and if a patient ever calls me "doctor", I immediately correct them on the spot.

However, what do you do when the allied staff call you "doctor"?

For example, I was reviewing a chart oustide a patient's room while pre-rounding, and the tech that was going into the room to check vitals casually said "Good morning, doctor". (I did nothing...)

I've also gotten into the habit of turning around expectantly whenever staff call out "doc".

Am I doing anything wrong? :)


There is nothing wrong!

Attendings call us doc all the time...get used to it!

By the way...in the CS exam...you have to introduce yourself as doc...eventhough you may be a student at the time...

The faculty at our school (in the basic science years) have tried to teach us to steer clear of the "student doctor" term and opt for "medical student" instead with the idea being that the former term may imply that the student has more training/knowledge/skill/competence than in reality.


Haha...they do the opposite here. They try to force us to say "Student Doctor so and so" instead of just i'm so and so and i'm a 1st year medical student. Apparently at some point in the past "medical student" was too confusing for patients. Apparently they were confusing us with the physical therapy students. (???). I still dont do...it just sounds strange...

Haha...they do the opposite here. They try to force us to say "Student Doctor so and so" instead of just i'm so and so and i'm a 1st year medical student. Apparently at some point in the past "medical student" was too confusing for patients. Apparently they were confusing us with the physical therapy students. (???). I still dont do...it just sounds strange...

That is funny. I guess it really doesn't matter all that much. I can see the point of the argument from both sides. Personally, I go with with the "I'm so and so a medical student." For some reason I think student doctor just sounds kind of dorky.

And I definitely agree that the vast majority of patients are clueless about the hierarchy in the hospital. To them, anyone who has a white coat and is treating them is a doctor. Plain and simple.
I remember a few years ago when my dad was in the hospital I was on the phone with him and he listed the names of all his "doctors." However, about 3/4 of those people were just interns or residents that happened to be on the service that was taking care of him. He didn't know any better and assumed just like anybody else that he had a team of 6 or 7 fully trained "docs" taking care of him. :rolleyes:

That is funny. I guess it really doesn't matter all that much. I can see the point of the argument from both sides. Personally, I go with with the "I'm so and so a medical student." For some reason I think student doctor just sounds kind of dorky.

:rolleyes:

The DO students at my hospital have "student physician" on their lab coats.

The DO students at my hospital have "student physician" on their lab coats.
must be a school-specific thing....my coat says "student doctor"

must be a school-specific thing....my coat says "student doctor"

Weird. My coat just says "bottom of the food chain." What's that all about?

Weird. My coat just says "bottom of the food chain." What's that all about?

Truth in advertising, my friend.

LOL, I'm not concealing anything. Show me a medical student who doesn't want to be called doctor?

And I will be, in about a year. But I am not one yet, and to be called one at this point - even with the "student" prefix - would be inappropriate, in my humble opinion.



Are you one of those students who tries to find something wrong with everything that anyone says ... then on rounds stab your fellow students in the back by speaking up when its not your turn or tattling to the residents/attendings when the other student doctor does something wrong (like heavens forbid calls themselves student doctor).

Just b/c your in med school, you don't always have to be so uptight and crazy about a title ... its just that a title. Who really cares if a patient calls you doctor, its really not a big deal. I get called nurse all the time - and most of the time I concentrate on the reason I went into the patient room then say that the nurse will be in momentarily. If I tried to correct every patient that called me by the incorrect title I would be spending a lot of my time correcting patients, visitors, staff, ect.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being called "doctor."
I like to consider the two basic definitions of the word:
1) a person who has earned the highest academic degree in a specified discipline (this does not apply to me until May 2007 but does apply to many who are not in health care)
2) a person skilled or specializing in healing arts

Medical students, interns, residents, and attendings are as a team caring for the health of the patient; I believe all may be considered "doctors." Likewise, I wouldn't argue if someone said, "I have an appointment to see my doctor next week" where the "doctor" is a nurse practitioner. It's about the role as a health provider, not the degree.

In accordance with definition (1), I would not introduce myself as Dr. Me but would have no problem with "student doctor" (except that it does sound pretty dorky).

The DO students at my hospital have "student physician" on their lab coats.


I had this surgery attending who called me "Young Doctor". Cracked me up.

Guess it's better than "Young Lady."

Likewise, I wouldn't argue if someone said, "I have an appointment to see my doctor next week" where the "doctor" is a nurse practitioner.

Is this a joke? :confused:

Personally, I go with with the "I'm so and so a medical student." For some reason I think student doctor just sounds kind of dorky.



Agreed, it sounds very dorky...and I should know as we HAVE to say it in our videotaped encounters with standardized patients. In the encounters with real patients that I have had I always introduce myself as a medical student.

Are you one of those students who tries to find something wrong with everything that anyone says ... then on rounds stab your fellow students in the back by speaking up when its not your turn or tattling to the residents/attendings when the other student doctor does something wrong (like heavens forbid calls themselves student doctor).

Just b/c your in med school, you don't always have to be so uptight and crazy about a title ... its just that a title. Who really cares if a patient calls you doctor, its really not a big deal. I get called nurse all the time - and most of the time I concentrate on the reason I went into the patient room then say that the nurse will be in momentarily. If I tried to correct every patient that called me by the incorrect title I would be spending a lot of my time correcting patients, visitors, staff, ect.

No, I'm not like that at all. My #1 rule on the wards is "don't screw over the other med students". My (perhaps undeserved) confidence in my own performance allows me to make sure the other students on the team shine as well.

And the only time I've *ever* "tattled" was when a nurse in the ER decided to start an IV on a little kid presenting with a first seizure (with no order). I didn't stop her because I figured she was following protocol (and who the hell am I to tell a crusty nurse what to do), and when the attending asked why the hell the kid got an IV, I neutrally explained what happened, which in effect amounted to tattling.

I've actually never been called a nurse before... :confused:

I don't think you can win - a vast number of my patients don't know or understand the structure of medical training - 4 years of medical school, 3+ years of residency, chief years, interns - everyone thinks you're at the level of Grey's Anatomy - so no matter what you introduce yourself as, chances are they won't really care or make a note of it. And to complicate things, at our school we wear long coats, so there's no visual-aid to explain the heirarchy.
I personally loathe the term "student doctor" - it sounds so dorky. However, three times upon introducing myself as "medical student" I've had patients make some sort of comment about having a cousin or a friend also in "medical school" at XYZ Technical College. They think I'm a MA student! So I stick with "student doctor. "
I have been introduced as "Dr. SuchandSuch" by attendings to patients and I make it a point to NEVER correct an attending infront of housestaff or a patient - not a good way to win friends and influence people, Mr. Carnegie would probably agree. I usually just introduce myself at a later time as Student Dr. SuchandSuch.

Funny - during my fourth year I was directly introduced to patients by two different attendings in two separate hospitals as "Dr (Last-name)". I didn't correct the impression, but I didn't refer to myself as a doctor, either. What else could I do? "Sorry, my attending was lying to you. Actually, I heard he's not really a doctor either."

In line with the above scenarios, a lot of allied health professions are now going the Doctorate route and would probably be adopting the "Doctor" designation. Has anybody encountered any ethical issues in terms of how other healthcare professionals (not MD's or DO's) introduce themselves? I also wonder if these scenarios are covered under medical ethics?

How do you really expect them to address you tho. Do you really think someone is going to say "excuse me 3rd year medical student smith i have a question" when they've seen 10 different doctors and 15 different nurses in last few hours you want them to remember your 3rd year medical student smith not dr. smith? people that are in hospitals aren't there because they want to be and usually their nervous or just want to get out so trying to remember and then repeat a title like that is a waste of the pt. time of course their gonna call you doc or dr.

In line with the above scenarios, a lot of allied health professions are now going the Doctorate route and would probably be adopting the "Doctor" designation. Has anybody encountered any ethical issues in terms of how other healthcare professionals (not MD's or DO's) introduce themselves? I also wonder if these scenarios are covered under medical ethics?

My understanding is that in patient care areas (i.e. on the wards), only MD's and DO's are to be addressed by "doctor". In these places, it would be inappropriate to refer to a PharmD on the team, a PhD med student, a PhD nurse, etc. as "doctor". There seems to be pretty good agreement about this.

How do you really expect them to address you tho. Do you really think someone is going to say "excuse me 3rd year medical student smith i have a question" when they've seen 10 different doctors and 15 different nurses in last few hours you want them to remember your 3rd year medical student smith not dr. smith? people that are in hospitals aren't there because they want to be and usually their nervous or just want to get out so trying to remember and then repeat a title like that is a waste of the pt. time of course their gonna call you doc or dr.


That's true. I also wanted to chime in with my own experience. Though I usually struggle like the rest of you to correct my patients, I was hospitalized a couple of years ago at my med school's hospital. Of course, I knew darn well about the hierarchies, etc, but I felt sooooo bad :( (not even altered mental status, just vomiting from upper GI stuff).

Even then, I wasn't sure who anyone was :confused: , and then they gave me anti-emetics and it was all over with. So many people came in and for a million bucks I couldn't tell you what position they held in the hospital (one of my classmates might have been by for all I know) and I didn't even CARE who anyone was. I called them ALL doc and would have called them Jesus if they wanted me to - anything to get better. So imagine how patients unexperienced with the medical profession feel. Therefore, I think we should correct 'em for ethical reasons, but then let them :sleep:

newbie1kenobi makes an interesting point about the doctorate. As an MD-PhD student, I will have my PhD when I return to clinics in a few months. Can I then mascarade as a (MD) doc ethically? I don't think so, but I wish :rolleyes:

I did not read all the replies, but thought I would add my own. My intro is "Hi my name is John Doe and I am a third year medical student, I came down to visit with you a bit before my <insert service here> team comes down to visit with you. Our boss doctor today is <insert attending> (sometimes I say our attedning physician is... but so many people dont understand that) and our resident is <whoever>. What brings you in to see us today?"

I find that even with all that, patients call me Doctor, but I see no need to correct them. The first couple of times it felt odd and not right, but it feels like the norm now. The short white coats usually tip the hospital staff off, but when I dont have a coat on I have been asked by nurses for orders and such but I always direct them to my intern...

Just my .02

It's misleading at best for a medical student to allow themselves to be called doctor. I always make it known that I'm just a student if they call me "doctor"....even though I earned a PhD a number of years ago!

No, technically I am not a doctor!!!

If you want to be "technical" about it, the non-attending MDs (interns/residents/fellows) are the "student doctors".



Yes, that is because it implies something that isn't true.

I actually hate that term very much. Until you have an MD (or DO, for our osteopathic friends), you are no doctor. I cringe whenever well-meaning residents or attendings introduce me in such a fashion.

There is nothing shameful about introducing oneself as a third-year or fourth-year medical student.


"Doctor" simply refers to the degree. Therefore, interns/residents/fellows are doctors.

newbie1kenobi makes an interesting point about the doctorate. As an MD-PhD student, I will have my PhD when I return to clinics in a few months. Can I then mascarade as a (MD) doc ethically? I don't think so, but I wish :rolleyes:

I have a doctorate in an allied health field and I still introduce myself as just a medical student. I agree with the idea that calling myself "doctor" in that setting implies training I don't have. Although it would be technically correct if I did so.

If other people call me doctor, I correct them once and then let it be. If team members introduce me as a doctor, I quickly add that I'm a medical student. I've done this even with attendings and it hasn't been a problem. It's a philosophical issue: I'd rather piss off an attending than lie to a patient. And I shudder to think what sort of attending would actually be pissed off about it. Anyway, I have to ask, does this issue really deserve two pages worth of angst on SDN? :rolleyes:

As someone said before, most people don't even have a basic knowledge of how med ed works, so whatever they want to call me is fine. I usually introduce myself as "firstname, a medical student" but people invariably call me "Dr." I think most of the reason is that they don't want to just call me "firstname."

I constantly have otherwise educated people ask me "what are you in medical school for?" or "what kind of doctor are you studying to be?" That's ok, they don't have to understand it.

P.S. I hate "student doctor" as well.

i've noticed that as a 4th year medical student i get called doctor a lot more. patients, nurses, staff... they all call me doctor. i think it may be because i speak with more confidence now, because i look the same and still wear the short white coat of shame.

sometimes i correct them, other times i have more important things to do. no one really cares. it's not like you're ordering narcs.

As a post-bacc, nontraditional pre-med student, I've been confused with the other residents and doctors while I was shadowing. I corrected the patient, letting them know that I was just a student. I don't think the generl public knows who is who nowadays with such a range of ages and sexes in all areas of medical care.

I don't think it matters really if the patient calls you doctor, as long as YOU don't start think you're a doctor.

Hey, I'm nowhere near a clinical rotation, but I always browse this forum 'cause you guys have the best conversations (the anguish of pee spots on scrubs - who knew?). Anyway I have a title-usage story from the patient perspective that you might find amusing...

I know a guy who's a PhD, doing postdoc work at a med school research lab. He had a work-related injury and went to the university hospital to be treated. Despite being within the hospital employment system and his forms saying "PhD" after his name and "Dr." as his title, the doc came by and said "Hello MISTER Smith, what brings you in..." The doc's coat says "Dr. Bill Jones" on it or whatever, so my friend says "Well, BILL, here's what happened..." He's refused to call a doctor "Doctor" ever since, refers to them all by first name. :)

(On a related note, I do understand the point about avoiding confusion by not referring to PharmD's, PsyD's, PhD's, and what-have-you-D's as "Doctor" on the floor, but on the other hand, they earned the title fair and square, it's somewhat disrespectful to intentionally disregard it. It seems clear that most patients just don't care about the confusion and call everyone "Doctor" anyway. And assuming these non-MD-D's are ethical people, they're not using the title to fool nurses into taking their orders - if they *are* doing something bad, then the problem is that they're doing something bad, not that their title is "Doctor"...)

It's pretty common for hospitals to have a policy against referring to anyone as doctor except MDs/DOs so as to not confuse patients. But, I've also noticed a certain lack of respect for PhDs from MDs/DOs. That's only my perspective from my experience, so it is by no means a view of the entire profession.

I don't think it matters really if the patient calls you doctor, as long as YOU don't start think you're a doctor.



I AGREE - gosh, I never thought anything like this would spark up so much conversation. It is really amazing that people feel so strongly about such a small insignificant issue. Pts who are sick in a hospital could care less about the hierarchy of medicine - they are there for one reason and one reason only ... to get better. The last thing they are concerned about is whether a med student helps them reach this goal, or a world renowned surgeon does it. As long as we all work towards a common goal, and don't become so concerned about titles, then the hospital would be a better place.

As to correcting the attending when they introduce you as a doctor. That is gutsy … I would instead take it as a compliment that the attending sees me as more of a colleague. I personally wouldn’t ever correct an attending b/c I have seen some students go down in flames for doing so. But, hey if you escaped without a bad eval then good for you.

I supposed I get called nurse b/c: one I’m female, and two when I'm not doing anything I will actually go talk to my patients and see if they need anything (I find myself getting pts blankets or drinks or anything else that typically isn't my job quite often b/c the nursing staff often finds better things to do with themselves - such as reading Us magazine, or stuffing their faces or playing on the internet). I could care less b/c I figure I would rather be doing that then just sitting in a team room twiddling my thumbs. I also try not to wear my white coat too much b/c the thing is like a heater ... ever y time I put it on I seem to overheat.

No, technically I am not a doctor!!!

If you want to be "technical" about it, the non-attending MDs (interns/residents/fellows) are the "student doctors".



Yes, that is because it implies something that isn't true.

I actually hate that term very much. Until you have an MD (or DO, for our osteopathic friends), you are no doctor. I cringe whenever well-meaning residents or attendings introduce me in such a fashion.

There is nothing shameful about introducing oneself as a third-year or fourth-year medical student.
There is when (as someone else pointed out) the fact that you're black and female means that medical student= nursing student/EMS student/MA student, anything but someone studying to become a doctor. During my first few rotations I had a few pts with this confusion. I even had a patient that insisted on addressing questions to the male CNA that was taking his temp as I was taking his history and seemed to be annoyed that the presumed CNA student (me) was asking so many questions. I've used student doctor since then and haven't had a problem.

titles are all b.s. i'm thinking of starting a thread "would you still want to be a doctor if you weren't allowed to be called doctor?" someone do it for me.

I know a guy who's a PhD, doing postdoc work at a med school research lab. He had a work-related injury and went to the university hospital to be treated. Despite being within the hospital employment system and his forms saying "PhD" after his name and "Dr." as his title, the doc came by and said "Hello MISTER Smith, what brings you in..." The doc's coat says "Dr. Bill Jones" on it or whatever, so my friend says "Well, BILL, here's what happened..." He's refused to call a doctor "Doctor" ever since, refers to them all by first name. :)

I honestly doubt that the doctor did this deliberately - we all have a routine for addressing patients, either as Mr./Ms. or by first name or whatever. If the doctor did this just to be a jerk, well, then he's a jerk. Plain and simple.

However, when you are a patient, doing anything to get your doctors to dislike you (such as, for example, calling them by first name without invitation; granted, many residents introduce themselves as Dr. Firstname Lastname, which is an implicit invitation for the patient to use their first name, but it sounds like this wasn't the case here) ... does nothing but increase the risk that you will get worse care.

There is when (as someone else pointed out) the fact that you're black and female means that medical student= nursing student/EMS student/MA student, anything but someone studying to become a doctor. During my first few rotations I had a few pts with this confusion. I even had a patient that insisted on addressing questions to the male CNA that was taking his temp as I was taking his history and seemed to be annoyed that the presumed CNA student (me) was asking so many questions. I've used student doctor since then and haven't had a problem.

That's certainly unfortunate, and something I did not consider. Perhaps you could expand the title - "I'm a 3rd year student at the XXX University School of Medicine". I would think that this pretty clearly implies, even to the very lay and very racist/sexist public exactly who you are. But if not, I guess you got me...



On a somewhat unrelated note, now that I'm a fourth year, I think I have started developing the habit of calling myself a "senior medical student" (or, even better, "THE senior medical student") after being introduced as such once by an attending... Now, does that make me haughty and pretentious, or is that a reasonable way to introduce myself?

I always introduced myself as an "x year medical student". When a patient or other allied health professional mistakenly called me "doctor", my stock answer was, "Not quite, give me a few months. But thanks for the vote of confidence." Usually got a smile and some kind of compliment.

I honestly doubt that the doctor did this deliberately - we all have a routine for addressing patients
Oh yeah... That doc says the same line to hundreds of people, and only an extremely small portion of them are anything other than "Mr." or "Ms." He probably didn't do more than glance at the "Last Name" field on the admission form. In my own personal opinion, my friend took it a little hard. HOWEVER...
doing anything to get your doctors to dislike you (such as, for example, calling them by first name without invitation...) ... does nothing but increase the risk that you will get worse care.
...You seem to pretty much take it as a given that (some) MDs/DOs get bent out of shape when they are not accorded the titular respect they deserve. So you'd *think* they'd be very particular about doing the same for others... ;)

There may be two different things y'all are talking about... Certainly you hear people say, "what do you think of this test result, Doctor?" or "the doctor will be in to see you shortly." In that case, "Doctor" is kind of like a name in itself. But then there's "what do you think of this result, Dr. Smith?" and "Dr. Smith will be in shortly." Now say I was a clinical psychologist - so, a PhD - who was routinely called "Dr. Smith" by her clients and office staff, and went to a hospital to do an evaluation. I wouldn't expect to get "the doctor will be in shortly" because that does kind of imply an MD/DO type doctor. But if the attending doc referred to me as "Ms. Smith" all day, I'd think I'd be pretty grumpy by the end of it.

Now say I was a clinical psychologist - so, a PhD - who was routinely called "Dr. Smith" by her clients and office staff, and went to a hospital to do an evaluation. I wouldn't expect to get "the doctor will be in shortly" because that does kind of imply an MD/DO type doctor. But if the attending doc referred to me as "Ms. Smith" all day, I'd think I'd be pretty grumpy by the end of it.

I imagine the attendings would just address you by first name, as they typically address each other... I agree, though, that this is a bit of a gray area.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being called "doctor."
I like to consider the two basic definitions of the word:
1) a person who has earned the highest academic degree in a specified discipline (this does not apply to me until May 2007 but does apply to many who are not in health care)
2) a person skilled or specializing in healing arts

Medical students, interns, residents, and attendings are as a team caring for the health of the patient; I believe all may be considered "doctors." Likewise, I wouldn't argue if someone said, "I have an appointment to see my doctor next week" where the "doctor" is a nurse practitioner. It's about the role as a health provider, not the degree.

In accordance with definition (1), I would not introduce myself as Dr. Me but would have no problem with "student doctor" (except that it does sound pretty dorky).

Doctors are people who have already earned a doctorate degree, period.

In the hospital world, people who have MD's or DO's are referred to as "doctor," and i think this is what most patients expect. (Some places also refer to PhD's as doctor).

I always correct people who call me doctor (and people who call me nurse, for that matter)...at the end of the day, it's just right for people to know the truth. student doctor is very misleading...also sounds ridiculous.

i just say that actually, i'm the med student on the team. i have the rest of my life to be called doctor, so what's the rush?

I never really corrected attendings when they called me "doctor" when I was a medical student. (Never jumped in and said, "oh, no, I'm a medical student...") But I did when patients called me "doctor" (however, as a female, I was probably called "nurse" more than doctor!)

And regarding the patient who was a doctor, I call all my patients Mr/Ms. I had a patient who apparently used to be an attending at my hospital but had since retired, and I didn't know he was a doctor until after I saw him for a cross-cover issue. He didn't care that I called him "Mr." Likewise, I wouldn't care if any of my patients called me by my first name. A lot of my clinic patients do call me by my first name, as well as families I sometimes talk to on call. One family member I met called me by my first name, and one of the other family members said, "You can't call her that!" like doctors have to be called doctor. I just laughed and told them they could call me whatever they wanted.

when i was called "doctor" by mistake recently, I found it really awkward, blushed and said "I'm not a doctor, I'm still training to be one."

when i was called "doctor" by mistake recently, I found it really awkward, blushed and said "I'm not a doctor, I'm still training to be one."

This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, but it seems to me that the people who react this strongly to being called "doctor" are the ones that put so much emphasis on the title like it's some big amazing thing to be a called doctor. I mean, it's really not worth getting all awkward over. It's not like your being called Lord Username or being introduced as the Royal Username of Hospital X. Don't introduce yourself as Dr if you're not one, but generally, if a patient keeps calling you that after you correct them once or twice, who cares? Maybe they want to make you feel good or want to give you some respect--let them!

It just seems that if someone gets this freaked about being called "doctor" now, one's ego might get a little overly inflated when you actually are called doctor on a regular basis.

When I said "awkward", it was because I felt like a fraud when the patient called me such; that's why I reacted so strongly. I don't see what this has to do with "inflated egos".

As to correcting the attending when they introduce you as a doctor. That is gutsy … I would instead take it as a compliment that the attending sees me as more of a colleague. I personally wouldn’t ever correct an attending b/c I have seen some students go down in flames for doing so. But, hey if you escaped without a bad eval then good for you.


The rest of my demeanor makes it clear I'm not "correcting" the attending so much as correcting the patient's impression of my status. Sometimes I don't do it right then, but I always do at some point if it's a patient I'm taking care of. Believe me, I would never overtly correct an attending in front of other people. At most, I would ask a question about whatever was said, commenting that I was under the impression <insert correct answer> was correct.

Usually the answer I get falls clearly into one of two types: 1) the attending has done far more reading and thinking about this issue than anyone who's previously taught me, and truly has a better grasp of the finer points of the subject. Or, 2) the attending has done far less reading and thinking about it, and perhaps this isn't a strong point of their knowledge base.

When I get a #1 type answer, I'm always very glad I asked in an unassuming manner.

Attendings were med students once, and not every one of them scored 100% on every test. My goal is simply to know whether I need to learn something different than what I've been taught. So I do it in a non-confrontational manner, and I've never gone down in flames for it.

When I said "awkward", it was because I felt like a fraud when the patient called me such; that's why I reacted so strongly. I don't see what this has to do with "inflated egos".

I think the reason people react so strongly to accidentally being called nurse or doctor is because those positions are perceived as being so low or high on the totem pole respectively. If we could all get over the title that will be after our names some day, I just don't think most people would see being accidentally called dr as such a big deal. If someone called you something completely off the medical hierachy (sp? my spelling has gotten so bad over 3 yrs of med school), I don't think you would react so strongly. It definitely has more to do with just being called something you're not.

(I'm really not directing this specifically to miscalculated, just to the forum in general.)

I think some react so strongly because we are nervous about the responsibility that comes with the term "doctor." We like to be able to fall back on the fact that we're students, and we can always ask the resident/attending, and all of our orders have to be checked etc--so when a patient refers to us as "doctor" and asks a question, and we get flustered trying to explain that we're not "doctors" yet I think what we're really saying is "I'm not confident in the advice I'm giving you and I'd rather you not hold me accountable for anything I'm about to say."

I think we should take on as much responsibility as our level of training allows us to. If a patient who's having trouble understanding the hierarchy asks a question you know the answer to and calls you "doctor" I say don't fall over yourself explaining how you're not a doctor--confidently educate the patient.

Now I'm not saying to misrepresent yourself. You should introduce yourself as a medical student and make it clear that your level of training differs from that of the residents and attendings. And while I do find the term "student doctor" a little misleading and don't use it personally, I've been refered to as a student doctor and I don't feel as though its a cardinal sin. I think you should also feel comfortable enough to tell a patient, "I don't know, I'd have to look that up/ask an attending/etc" if you don't know the answer to the question they're asking. Just as you should give a confident answer when you do.

Bottomline: If you've explained to the patient your position and role and they still view you as their "doctor" step up and assume the role. Falling all over one's self to explain that they're a student usually means they're not comfortable viewing themselves as a doctor yet--which is perfectly understandable--but it also means that you have a patient who views you as a doctor and has given you a perfect oppertunity to get more comfortable in that role. Med school will be over before you know it. disclaimer: add to this the obvious stuff about not getting in over your head and making sure you only give the patient accurate information and are not afraid to say you'll have to research things/ask attendings/etc

Pillowhead, I know you're not directing this at me, that's alright. You're right in saying this has more to do with being called something you're not, but that extra thing is what Velo pointed out, that we don't want to take on the responsibility yet.

But what he said at the end was bang on and has given me a totally different slant on it, that we should step up and assume the role given the opportunity. Next time there'll be no blushes!

I think some react so strongly because we are nervous about the responsibility that comes with the term "doctor." We like to be able to fall back on the fact that we're students, and we can always ask the resident/attending, and all of our orders have to be checked etc--so when a patient refers to us as "doctor" and asks a question, and we get flustered trying to explain that we're not "doctors" yet I think what we're really saying is "I'm not confident in the advice I'm giving you and I'd rather you not hold me accountable for anything I'm about to say."

That's not why I do it, at all. I'd be fine if it were my responsibility to decide things, but it's not. I always answer the patient's questions, when I know the answer. But I don't want the patient to be confused if I come in there and say one thing, and then what happens is something else entirely. So even when I know what I've said is correct, I make it clear that the decision is not mine, and there may be things I'm not considering that will change the plan.