View Full Version : Caribbean Medical Schools: Ross
03-21-2000, 08:36 PM
ROSS UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE
460 West 34th Street, 12th Floor, New York, NY 10001
212/ 279-5500, 212/ 629-3147 Fax
Please post any experiences you have with this school.
This is part of the big guide at http://www.studentdoctor.net
from my experience with Ross, I think that they accept anyone that has met the premedical requirements and finishes the paperwork. Although they do have clinical affiliations in the U.S., I think it's just a huge profit-making institution. It's better to go to a well-established university, not just one set up for those willing to give the money.
I do know a few people who finished medical school at Ross and seem to be doing well. I guess it depends on what kind of medical experience and education you want.
04-14-2000, 08:49 PM
I HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED FOR A SPOT IN THE FALL 2000 CLASS. THE INTERVIEW WAS MORE OF A SALES PITCH. I'VE HEARD ALL THE NAGATIVISM ABOUT CARRIBEAN MED SCHOOLS, BUT I'M 39 YEARS OLD WITH AN UNDERGRAD DEGREE IN ECON, SO I CAN'T BE TOO PICKY. SO I WILL GO IF I HAVE TO. I WILL BE A QUALIFIED PHYSICIAN, BECAUSE I WILL NOT BE OTHERWISE. U.S. MED SCHOOLS HAVE NOT SHOWN MUST INTEREST- I DO HAVE AVERAGE UNDERGRAD GRADES, BUT RECENTLY I HAVE POSTED 9 STRAIGHT A'S WHILE PICKING UP THE PREREQS. I SCORED A 15-10-11 ON THE MCAT, BUT HAVE ONLY MANAGED 3 INTERVIEWS- I'M WAIT LISTED AT ALL 3. I DON'T THINK I QUITE FIT INTO THE BOX OF A CONVENTIONAL US MED SCHOOL- I'M OLDER, BUILT LIKE AN OFFENSIVE LINEMAN, HAVE 3 YOUNG CHILDREN ETC. I HAVE SEEN THE CLASS OF 99 MATCH LIST- SOME FAIRLY IMPRESSIVE RESIDENCY PROGRAMS WERE PRESENT, SO IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE A GOOD OUTCOME. I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SEEING SOME POSTINGS FROM ROSS STUDENTS IN CLINICAL ROTATIONS.
04-15-2000, 08:32 AM
I wish you the best nick!!
There is more joy in giving then there is in recieving.
04-16-2000, 06:44 PM
Nick, if you don't mine me asking to what schools di you applied? MD's or DO's? bcz i don't think that being an older applicant is such a negative aspect.
Detroit Rock City
04-17-2000, 08:38 AM
I recently graduated froom ross and would answer any questions that prospective students may have. I know that ross looks like a big scam, but it isn't. I started with 200 students and finished with about 75. Is that a scam? I don't think so! All 200 of us could not get into a US school but wanted to become doctors. The education must be OK becasue I scored over 90% on both step 1 and 2. Not everyone is meant to be a doctor. US schools weed out alot of them but some are more determined and so they leave the country to try. Ross gives you the chance. What you do from there is up to you. By the way, I had a 2.6 GPA from undergrad and got a 34 on the MCAT and got wait-listed at one US school and one DO school.
04-17-2000, 05:20 PM
I too am an older student with similiar stats that tried the Carribean route. I went to Ross, but found for an individual with some life experience, especially in medicne, as I am a podiatrist, it is not a worth while investment. The education is not centered on making you a doc but moreso on weeding out. I did extrememly well and had all A'a and B's mind you but felt I needed a more centered approach to studying medicine vs the broad process at Ross. An atrition ratio of over 60% from 200 to 50 is pretty high I would say. The endemic diseases that you risk are not worth it and the people rip you off at every turn. Again a young man without any life's experience may find this to be ok. I feel you are an excellent candidate for DO. I got in without much to do and am loving the experience. I have only to make it through the curriculum and will be prepared for boards and have not the residency woas. Mind you this is only one experience and opinion. It is not meant to insult of demean but to inform as to the obstacles one may encounter. I would think long and hard as the schools are admittedly money mills but it is not impossible to gain the degree. The stats just show that it is not likely but not impossible (>60% attrition vs <5% for DO and MD schools). If I can help please feel free to email me
04-17-2000, 08:17 PM
THANK YOU ALL FOR THE RESPONSE! REGARDING YOUR QUERIES, I HAVE APPLIED AT ALLOPATHIC SCHOOLS ONLY, BECAUSE I WAS TOLD THAT DO'S MAY BE AT A DISADVANTAGE WHEN MATCHING FOR NON- PRIMARY CARE RESIDENCIES (I SHOULD MENTION THAT I AM LEANING TOWARD PRIMARY CARE, BUT I DO NOT WANT TO CLOSE OFF ANY OPTIONS). I HAVE APPLIED AT CINCINNATI, MED COLLEGE OF OH, RUSH (WAITLISTED); LOYOLA, U OF IL, SOUTHERN IL (NO INTERVIEWS BUT NOT REJECTED YET); U OF IN, PITTSBURGH, CHICAGO MEDICAL SCHOOL, LOUISVILLE (REJECTED); MCP/HANNEMAN (NO RESPONSE). WHAT ENDEMIC DISEASES ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? THIS IS OF GREAT CONCERN TO ME BECAUSE OF MY CHILDREN.
Detroit Rock City
04-18-2000, 06:00 AM
Don't let anyone scare you with diseases. That is just crap. Yes, it is true that some diesases are endemic to the carribean, like dengue or yellow fever, but in my 2 years there I never even got a cold. The only people I know who got sick ended up with food poisioning. Sure, getting into a DO program sure kicks the crap out of being an FMG, but my friends over at NYCOM are all bitching about how their school has a foreign transfer program. Now about 30 % of the students are old MD's from russia who could not pass step 3. The guys I talked to said that they had a harder time getting MD residencies then the FMG's did. One bright point, the DO's have their own residencies as well, so the cream of the DO crop can get into the best residencies. Those are ultra-competitive from what I hear. Not that many of them around. Good luck
Detroit Rock City
04-18-2000, 06:10 AM
By the way, I might be older but I'd like to think that serving in the army for 5 years qualifies as life experiences more than someone who went to foot school, didn't like it and then goes to Ross, drops out because it was not challenging enough and goes to a DO school? If you believe all of that I have a bridge for you. 99% of people who go to ross end up there because they could not get into an other school MD or DO. Ross has such a high attrition rate and still you score A's and B';s but drop out? I knew a guy from ross. Older guy, went to DPM school in OH. Thought he was a stud at ross because alot of the classes are the same, got all A's and B's. Now he can't pass step 2 so he has done all that work for nothing. Hmmmm, is this you G?
04-18-2000, 09:02 AM
Reading through these messages is rather comical.
I might as well throw my two cents in.
Here's the real deal Old Nick. I started at Ross in Sept. of 1996, I graduated from Ross in Feb of 2000. I passed steps 1 and 2 of the USMLE on the first try with respectable scores. Respectable enough to get a University match in Family Practice exactly where I wanted to end up when I started out on this medical school adventure.
I have read some of the Posts to your inquiry, and I can say that I know Detroit Rock City and he is telling you the truth, he's a damn fine student and what he has posted is true.
You are going to read a lot of different opinions about Ross. Consider where the motivation for these posts comes from.
I can only relate my experience, I went to Ross and started in the same class as Detroit Rock City, when I got off the plane in Dominica I actually saw people who were supposed to be starting with me get off the plane look around and get right back on. That is the truth, they took one look around and said screw this. I didn't because I was determined to be a doctor. The island is definitely third world, it IS NOT the US nor is it even comparable. The education you receive is comparable and in many ways it is even better. Do not go to Ross if you expect to be patted on the po-po and have your hand held through medical school. Ross will give you the opportunity to make it. What you do with that opportunity is up to you.
Life on the island pretty much SUCKS but if you remember what you are there for its a perfect place to learn the basics of medicine.
There are few distractions, no movies, no McDonalds, its a different world but if you go there knowing this it isn't so bad.
The good things on the island are there to be noticed too, all you have to do is look for them.
Adversity can make or break you, I met some of the best people I've ever met at Ross and made some very good friends that I wouldn't trade for anything.
Okay you get past the island then what? Well I went to Calif. and went straight through clinicals then I matched.
The entire time you are at Ross you will have a feeling of walking on the edge of a cliff, wondering if you are going to fall, and thats exactly what the US schools expected of us I guess, but you don't have to fall you can keep on, one step after another until you reach your goal.
Ross students as Residents, I have received very positive feed back from programs I interviewed with. There have been a lot of fine Ross grads before us who have cleared a path .
Can I compete with US students with what I have gained at Ross. OH HELL YEAH!
IS there a stigma associated with being a foriegn student. OH HELL Yeah, but things are changing, ther are a lot of us Ross grads around. And the medical community is familiar with the name stateside. Most Ross Grads are US citizens.
Good luck in your decision, just focus on what your goals are and choose the place that meets your needs, then work hard and be persistent and you'll do just fine.
04-18-2000, 09:15 PM
ROCK CITY OR WHATEVER THE NAME,
First of all let me start by allowing you to know that I too am an amrm officer and have done more in 32 years than most men do in a life time. Most people take offense to something that is said when either they are lying or don't want to face the truth. Podiatry is not foot school and it kicks the hell out of Ross any day. Podiatrist are trained specialist who make a world of difference to the poor and indigent individuals, especially those with diabetes. You should be the one to criticize when you admit that you are not good enough to be a doctor by the standard of the country in which you wish to practice. Don't jump on me for telling the truth. If they taught you any thing at Ross you should know that denge fever on it's second innoculation is often fatal. Yellow fever is also no joke when you have little or no medical facilities to properly treat the disease. Further lets talk malaria and the drug resistant stains of TB that have been poping up from the Carribean now for the past few years. You see you are obviously not a well rounded individual and constantly had a book in your face while at Ross to realize the real danger that you were in. Personally I worked in missions there and found out things you can't even begin to imagine that are happening there. As for the grades a Ross you, if you are honest, know that it is the same stuff as taught at any other medical school only much more detailed to weed out as many as possible. You were willing to risk your life while individuals like I who have some since of the value of family and life chose to move to bigger and better things than endanger all in the world that is near and dear to us. You see to me being a doc is about and always will be about helping people. It is not some quest you undertake so that you are better than anyone else. I left podiatry in order to serve better my patients in the rural setting in which I successfully practiced for 3 yrs. Otherwise, having a 180K debt I could not have paid tution out of pocket as I did. I will always be a multifaceted praticioneer as is called for in todays rural community. You need evaluate self and your shortcomings before talking out of the side of your neck about things which you have little or no clue. My lab coat has more time in the laundry than you have in medicine.
Nick, there was just a resolution passed that allows DO students to recieve the same residency training as any MD. The only obstacles that did exist until very recently was the fact that DO training required a special rotating internship that could only be undertaken at a DO facility. With the new resolution any AGCME approved internship and residency is acceptable to the AOA as long as the graduate completes certain CME credits like OMM. DO have been and consistently are accepted into allopathic and osteopathic progams equally. I have the option of doing externships at any institution I chose and have in fact presented early credential to Hardvard for an IM externship. It is not difficult to get into MD residencies anymore as that little scurmage in southeast Asia in the 70's put DOs and MDs side by side in actual practice situations that led to wide spread exceptance. DOs are not more likely to not recieve speciality training and be shunted into primary care. Instead, the mission of most of the DO schools is to admit individuals who care to pracitce primary care as this follows the original mission for the field of osteopathy as set forth by the founder, A. T. Still. DO's are now only greatly outnumber by our MD counterparts and the acceptability rating is better than it has ever been. In fact many allopathic institutions have implemented elective classes in OMM and DOs teach at these MD institutions.
By all means Nick, evaluate what it is that you are looking for and make the appropriate choice. I just know that some things in life are more precious than the degree ie., good health and peace of mind. It will be taxing enough to get through any program without the added difficulties of enteric parasites and substandard living. It is an opinion that I pray you can use in your decision and as I said in my first post not meant to offend anyone. I tell you the truth as it pertains to my situation and this should not be questioned by people who have endured misery and wish others to have the same pain. There is always more than one way to skin a cat.
I pray you God's Speed
04-18-2000, 09:23 PM
By the way Nick, you can email me at firstname.lastname@example.org. I may even have some insider tips that you may find interesting.
04-18-2000, 10:16 PM
if you are going to a Carrib school I would also advise you to leave you spouse and kids in the States.
If there is a problem and one of them gets seriously ill or injured, getting together an air evac can take some precious time. Sure, the same is true for you or any one of the hundreds of students who attend Carib schools. However, if you are like me, you would rather be hit by a brick on the head than have one of your kids as much as break a finger...
If going offshore is the only way for you to become a physician, go for it, but I would leave the kids at home.
A little "cute" story: years ago I went offshore as part of a "mission. A few days after arriving I began feeling ill. I felt like I was going to pass out, just crappy and I could not stop shaking. I was taken to the local hospital by their "ambulance" (it was actually a pickup truck and I was given the choice of riding in the cab or in the back...). When I got there I was given an old glass thermometer, which had been floating in a cup of what appeared to be alcohol and told to stick it in my mouth. No way!!! Then the local doc told me that I either had a bad case of heat exhaustion or I had malaria...Lucky for me, it turned out to be heat exhaustion. I was puzzled because the Health Travel Advisory in the US had listed that area as "malaria free", but the local doc just laughed. I guess the mosquitoes there were never told they were not supposed to be there...
The local doc and nurses were just the nicest people, though.
Detroit Rock City
04-19-2000, 05:06 AM
Just to let you know. I have seen more cases of malaria and drug resistant TB here in New York than I ever saw in the carribean. As far as you foot doc's being better, well if that was the case we wouldn't need DO's now would we? I'm happy you decioded to make a difference in the rural areas where doctors of any caliber are sorely needed. I guess those rural people in OKlahoma and texas being treated by FMG's willing to work there would be better suited with a rhodes scholar foot doc like yourself.
The next time I ever see a patient with a suspected MI come in my ER I'll be sure to call the foot doc before ordering the EKG. I'm sure he will know what to do!
Nick, Wait one more year and apply to DO School, there is no doubt in my mind you will get in. DO school emphasizes primary care but does not limit your ability to find a different residency. I know a DO that is a pediatric thoracic radiologist. You can get any residency you want as a DO if you have the grades, granted it may not be at the most prestigous teaching hospital, but how much does that really matter?
If you are 39 one more year won't make that much of a difference to your carreer but it could make a big difference to your family.
04-24-2000, 02:18 PM
You are absolutely right G-mangle Podiatrists do serve a fine purpose and hey man I'll refer all my emergency toe-jams to you.
You assume a lot about your 32 years. and you sound rather defensive about your podiatry degree, why is that. Hmmmmmm!???
I find it humorous that you would compare a podiatry degree with an MD.
Like comparing apples and oranges.
Like I said I'll send all my calluses and toe fungus cases to you for your expertise and believe me it will be gratefully appreciated.
Oh hey I've got some big calluses on my heels how do I get rid of those.
04-27-2000, 03:41 PM
You don't have to worry about going to Dominica to attend Ross anymore. Ross is building a campus in Casper Wyoming (USA). Now US citizens can attend Ross in the US. You can check it out on their website www.rossmed.edu (http://www.rossmed.edu)
Detroit Rock City
04-28-2000, 12:52 PM
that campus is dead in the water. Big man ross pissed off way too many people with that stunt. Why do you think he sold the place?
04-28-2000, 03:48 PM
Ross sold the place in Wyoming?
I suppose Ross does turn out qualified physicians, but do you guys think it's a big gamble? If there's an attrition rate of nearly 60% (one of you guys mentioned that), isn't there a pretty good chance that a first-year at Ross won't make it?
One of you guys also mentioned that you thought your Ross education may be better than a US education. The dean of the med school said in a video on the Ross website said the same thing. Exactly what makes it better than a US education?
I met a Ross 4th year -- nice, smart guy -- at Kings County Hospital back in February or March when I was doing an EM elective. He was going for EM too, but I wonder if he made it. Perhaps you guys know him? I don't have his name, however.
Tim of New York City.
04-28-2000, 09:47 PM
The high attrition ar Ross doesn't worry me. If everyone gets the softball non-interview and acceptance that I did, and it really is just a cash cow institution, I'm sure that a lot of people who don't belong in med school get in. It would be no surprise if many of them fall beneath the wheels. I do belong in med school. Besides, for me, failure is not an option.
Detroit Rock City
05-07-2000, 03:30 PM
when were you doing your ER rotation at KCHC. I know most of the guys from ross that went there and I can tell you if they matched in ER or not. Last I checked I think there were 4-5 people in my class who got ER, but not too sure. Sorry for getting on you before, just so sick of defending my school, but now that I graduated. I have read people posting there horrror stories about ross and all that. I went thorugh in 4 years and now I'm an MD. That is what I know.
e-mail me at
Detroit Rock City
05-07-2000, 03:34 PM
Ross didn't sell the wyoming thing, the AMA wouldn't let him do it. When he tried the powers that be suddenly took away clinical training sites. So he stopped pursuing the idea and now the clinical sites are back. It was all politics. Ross has sold a majority share of the school to a group of people with an education background. Supposed to be a positive thing, but only time will tell!
05-07-2000, 05:48 PM
Was in the KCHC ER last February (2000). The Ross student who was there was blonde-haired and told me he applied to 30+ programs, ranking most of them. So if anyone you know fits this profile, lemme know.
Tim of New York City.
Detroit Rock City
05-09-2000, 02:42 PM
Sounds like a guy named Mike. If it's him he was in my class but deferred step 1 until oct 98. I didn't rotate with him. Don't know if he matched in ER or not, but I heard that he might have at UCONN. I was there in Oct 99. Didn't really care for the rotation, though, too many students, mainly got scutted. Met some guys from Downstate, pretty cool people, they were doing Neuro, didn't care for it too much, I think it was the hours!!
Here's what I have heard about the Wyoming deal with Ross. They have not sold the land, and I don't think they are going to. The reason they are not building the site is 1. The AMA thing 2. Casper won't not sell them water and sewer rights and it's impossible to build without those two things.
I don't think they are going to sell the site because old man Ross, who is from Casper WY, has been striving for a med school here for more than twenty years. When he was at UW in the 80's he almost got a state funded school passed, then he started Ross in the hopes to one day move it to the US, but I don't think that will happen in the near or far future.
As far as a Casper Campus for the FMG, won't happen because there is too much of a fight from the local medical community.
KCOM Class of 2004
[This message has been edited by WYDO (edited 05-11-2000).]
Oh, by the way, the picture they show of the proposed Casper Site is very in acurate. The mountian in the back ground is not Casper Mountian. I'm sure the picture is of the Big Horn Mnts. outside of Sheridan, WY. I know this because my bedroom window faces the Mountians and I have never see the mountian look like that before and I've seen it almost every day for the past 21 years.
KCOM Class of 2004
05-11-2000, 05:21 PM
Most people here aren't too high on Neuro, as far as I can tell. And if you rotate at County, you're just asking to be scutted. http://www.studentdoctor.net/bbs/smile.gif
Tim of New York City.
Go ahead and start your education at Ross.
I just finished at the Portsmouth, Dominica
campus Dec, 1999. Passed the Boards this
March and will be heading to NY for clinicals.
Sure, you'l get G-Itis, but there's bottled
water. Ignore the bad attitude from the
crummy Islanders at school, but who cares
you have tons of friends down there. Are
you there to bcm a Doc or a whiner? Study.
If you got Family, then Stay at BELL HALL
It is a huge mansion by Douglas Bay. No
students around. The owner is Clyde Edwards.
All the van drivers know him. If you stay
at school , they'll rip you off. Don't
worry, the school installed recently 30 night
light poles, a new Cafeteria, A/C student
lounge. Security is better there, and the
Juiceman (Addison) still sells the best
Mango, guava, banana, juice drinks on the Island.
Go there concentrate on your studies,
don't screw around too much, and make it
to 5th semester. That's the Bomb man. It's
the AISP course, short for Intense BOARD 1
Prep. Kaplan brings in NMS review staff to
the Island to teach you what you need to
know to comfortably pass. Pass that
and you'll be sittin pretty for Third year.
I got e-mail addresses of other students who
had successfully passed Dominica and Step 1 if you need further confirmation. out of 110+
students this past Dec 1999, only 1 failed Boards as far as I know.
Best of Luck,
05-16-2000, 08:42 PM
Any truth to the rumor that some residency programs require FMG's to retake some of the basic science courses or clinicals prior to or concurrent with acceptance into their programs? If true, are these the exception or the rule?
05-16-2000, 10:12 PM
I did the match this year and neither I nor my classmates have had to do anything over again. In fact, this is the first time I have ever heard such a thing. I think someone is pulling your chain.
05-17-2000, 09:07 PM
UPDATE- I've been shot down completely at Cincinnati and U of Illinois. MCO and Southern Illinois rate my chances as slim. I'll find out where I am on the waiting list at Rush next week. Most likely- Dominica-nica-nica, to quote the singing nun (I fear I have just dated myself!). I'd like to thank all who have taken the time to reply to my inquiries; I especially appreciate the frankness. Like I said, I will go if I have to. I spite of all the FMG's that are practicing good medicine out there, there is still some stigma attached to it. In my current profession as an insurance adjuster I've seen some bad docs- but never once have I thought that they did not have good training available to them. Rather it seemed greed, ego, callousness, overwork etc were the culprits. I am convinced that one's skill as a physician depends on their commitment to do the job right- and nothing else. Thanks to your help, I am sure that I am making the right choice.
By the way- does anyone out there have the phone number of this BELL HALL that Rocndoc mentions?
08-09-2000, 07:39 PM
YEE-HAH! I'm going to Medical College of Ohio
08-22-2000, 09:26 PM
The truth is something we all want to find but so many of us are hesitant to accept, why? because of ignorant people in this world! I am a 4th semester student at Ross university on the island of Dominica, the truth is, we all want to get into a US med school, the truth is the acceptance policies in US med school is not standard anymore( who know maybe it never was), i mean you can have the gpa, mcat , interview all surpassing their wildest expectations but then you hear your friend who had lower credentials than you got in!! oh well, what can you do, sit and dwell on it for another year, or two, etc... Then comes Ross University, off course it's a business, think about it, aren't US med schools too? or wait, they just teach us because they want to help us make a better living in the future! The island is poor, but i have yet to catch to quote detroit rock "a simple cold", except when i come back to michigan for the breaks! the school is comparable in most aspects to US med schools and in some ways surpasses them(EXample is like Wayne State where Ross's anatomy lab and lecture halls are far more equiped and advanced than wayne state's since i've seen both). The professors, well i went to undergrad at the University of Michigan, i had good professor and i had bad ones, guess what, it's universal even at Harvard! The clinicals, for the first time since the new board members took over the schools, which i might add that they are very powerful political figures(former governor, former chief of staff for the president, former president of Yale university, etc...), there are more clinical spots available for ross university students in the US than students enrolled! for residency, just go the the ross web page and check out the current placements.
Ross is not a school for anyone, especially Dominica, it's poor, it's misery at times, it's even torture when the lights go out because of a hurricane threat. So why attend you ask? Here's the deal, you see some individuals at US med schools indirectly by not accepting me said "listen son, your not cut out to be a doctor," maybe that's not what they said but that is what I heard in my heart. Ross has given me a chance to prove to fullfill my life long dream of becoming a physician, it's true I have to live in an environment I haven't been accustomed to and deal with issues that usually would not have arrisen if i were to be living in the states, but you see, going and graduating from Ross University is a life experience. What I mean is when you finish from Ross you will not only be comparable to US medical graduates in your knowledge and degree, but you will surpass them in an area of medicine that most US graduates have no knowledge or training in, it's called empathy, feeling the burden of hard life with your poor patients, understanding their problems, and appreciating the simpler things in life, this not only makes you a better physician, but also a better human being and that is something lacking in the world of medicine today.
By the way, fifth semester at ross is now going to be in Miami, it's still basic sciences but it has been moved to the states, so if you want incentive, there you have it, things are only getting better!
08-23-2000, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by hfawaz19:
there you have it, things are only getting better!
Ummmm.... Yeah. Just keep telling yourself that dude.
11-12-2000, 01:30 PM
It's me Rick from you ICC days, I know that you may be getting a lot of negative information about Ross, but dont listen to that crap. My wife, an RN, has worked for a very respectable MD from Ross for a little over a year. In fact he recommends Ross over the whole buerocratic crap that goes on in the states. I'm considering it and a few of my buddies here at this post bachelorete program are considering it. We recently had a graduate come and share some of his beleifs about it as well and it was all quite positive. I know your personality and your dedication Nick that's why I think you would do fine for that 15 or so weeks that you have to be there, so the negative opinions about disease and not having anything to do is crap your married and dedicated to one thing becoming a Doc so forget this US school crap dont waiste any more time and do it!!!
11-14-2000, 10:23 AM
I'd like to reiterate the point that Island medical schools are businesses whose sole purpose is to make its investors' wallets fat. What drives their curriculum is their bottom line, not their desire to produce competent physicians. US and more legitimate foreign medical schools are out to educate good doctors. While a medical school will be limited by its budget, for those of you who will say US medical schools care about their bottomline too, it has no profit margin to maintain. US med schools are NOT-FOR-PROFIT institutions whose mission is solely altruistic in nature. Its our hospitals that are more responsible for the financial health of the entire medical center, not the medical school.
Tim of New York City.
11-14-2000, 09:46 PM
What about private medical schools who drop thier cutoff scores because they can get people willing to pay 34-35 thousand a year? To me it is about the same thing. Money drives the world, even in medical school, US schools should be the first choice, but if it doesn't work out screw it an MD is an MD!
11-15-2000, 10:53 AM
I have several things to say...I read the entire post thoroughly, and here's what I see:
1) Skeptics want to bash Foreign schools, citing that their instruction is inferior.
2) Skeptics say Foreign schoos are "for profit" businesses, that only want to "make their wallets fat".
3) Skeptics believe that a D.O. degree exceeds the Foreign conferred M.D. degree.
Well, here's the truth...
Ross definitely IS a business, it exists to make money. Let me just see if I see the logic. You're telling me that Harvard Med. wants to educate its physicians for free? Can someone please tell me the last person they knew personally that got a full-ride paid medical degree? They are as rare as three dollar bills...why? Because who would give away a degree, when one seat is competed for by 30-50 people? So lets set the record straight, all schools are businesses, otherwise they would no longer be educating, they would be "out of business." Next lets talk about the D.O. degree being superior to the FMG's M.D. degree...hmm...when was the last time a common everyday patient asked his doctor where he graduated from? Truth is, if you are a good doctor, you will have good business, and a good relationship with your patients. The only thing your patients are gonna see is John Q. Smith, M.D. Lets compare that with a patient seeing John Q. Smith, D.O. First thing that gets asked, "what is a D.O.?" "Is it like an M.D.?" "Isn't the school easier?" "Are you really taking the same classes?" "Why did you pick being a D.O. instead of an M.D.?" Now let me be honest here...some people instinctively know what a D.O. is. Here in Philadelphia, possibly the D.O. capital of the world, you have PCOM and UMDNJ within 15 miles. You travel down the street you see D.O. after D.O., HOWEVER, when I lived in Ohio not more than 60 miles from OUCOM, not more than about 1 in 50 people could tell you that a D.O. was a "real doctor", its amazing. Of that 1 in 50, most people recognized that being a D.O. was one step between a Chiropractor(Ugh) and an M.D. So let me summarize this...you say Ross is a business, well ok, but so is every other school in the nation...if you disagree...name one U.S. school that grants free degrees to its students. You say Ross is inferior...I think that depends on the individual students...medicine isn't magic, you don't have to be intrinsically brighter than someone else to be successful. Hard work is the key ingredient to becoming a good doctor. The basic science knowledge can be picked up in a library-loaned textbook. If foreign medical graduates can pass the USMLE, the measuring stick for medical licensure, how exactly are they inferior? IF, U.S. schools are superior, why do Ross grads. specifically, and FMG generally, score better than their U.S. counterparts on the USMLE? If residencies are so few and far between for FMG's, why does the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates, state that obtaining residency is "NO PROBLEM", providing prerequisites have been met. Why is it when I call Philadelphia area hospitals such as MCP Hanneman, Jefferson, Cooper, Temple, UPenn. etc., they all say that they view FMG's no differently than U.S. graduates?
The truth is that many U.S. allopathic students begrudge caribbean schools because of historically laxed admission standards. They have the, "we're smarter", "we worked harder", "we sacrificed a life in undergrad." attitude to why they are there. Unfortunately, there aren't enough seats for everyone who thinks they can be doctors. So caribbean schools offer an opportunity to individuals who are willing to sacrifice and go to a third world country for an education. Yes, there's a high attrition rate, but then again, shouldn't there be? I mean, they give chances to people with lower scores, some of those people just CAN'T do the work, so they fail. Those that can, EARN their degrees. Same courses, same work, same boards, same residencies; just all off U.S. soil. Sure there are problems with it...no entertainment, no family, no civilization, confinement, but then again, I have more respect for people who are willing to go through all the extra trouble, because it shows true desire. Yeah, it'd be easier to get a D.O. and move on, but lets face it, (no offense to D.O.'s) some people don't want to settle for a DO degree. Truth is an MD is an MD. You don't have to like it, but you CAN'T change it. So cry all you want. I am gonna be the FMG who sucks all your patients away...because I'm gonna have superior physical diagnoses skills, better interpersonal communication skills, and a big fat pair of initials that say M.D. behind my name, and when night falls I'll be able to sleep comfortably knowing that it was my hard work and tenacity that got me there, not just some family affiliation or gpa.
11-15-2000, 12:08 PM
So here's where the FMG-student decides that too many sides are picking on him and his cohort.
You miss the point of my post. I didn't say US med schools grant free degrees or charge no tuition for an education. You should realize that "not-for-profit" isn't the same as "free." A not-for-profit institution is a business in the sense that it offers a service and charges appropriate fees, but it's also not a business in a more capitalistic sense in that it makes no profit from selling its product. Practically all respectable educational institutions in the US are not-for-profit institutions that charge a tuition to pay off their professors and to pay the bills, but when they look at their bottomline, they'll see that they've broken even (essentially). You can argue with me that Boston University School of Medicine is one of the most expensive medical schools in the US and arguably the world, charing WAY MORE than one of your Island schools, but when the Board of Trustees for the medical school look at their books, they'll be PLEASED with the fact they've broken even. They'll be unhappy if they're in the red, and if they're in the black, that surplus will go back into the institution and NOT THEIR WALLETS. The Ross University Board of Trustees will look at the bottomline and be upset if they break even, and if there is some surplus, you can bet that only a tiny fraction of that will go into the school and its educational program while a considerably bigger portion of it (say it with me, "profit margin") will go into Robert Ross' wallet.
Go to your Island school and soak in the sun, but remember the many hurdles you'll have that no foreign grad can dispute. DON'T GET WEEDED OUT. Ross, in particular, has a pretty high attrition rate compared to SGU. MAKE SURE YOU PASS STEP 1. Not everyone in the second year class of an Island school can take the Step 1 because your administration prevents it. US med schools know that all their students are ready, and we produce a 92% (national average) pass rate. Is SGU's or Ross' any better? If it is it's because there's a selection bias. Did you know the average pass rate for foreign grads on the Step 1 is well below the (approx.) 80% pass rate for DOs?
Good luck. Get your facts straight and don't let the Ross propaganda machine brainwash you. Your assertion that many qualified students are turned away from US Med Schools every year and find their way to Ross, which provides them that chance to prove themselves worthy of the profession is something straight out of a Ross brochure.
Tim of New York City.
Detroit Rock City
11-16-2000, 10:53 AM
I enjoy resding your posts and agree with most of them. This time I have to say that I don't agree 100%. You are at the county, no? You have worked first hand with some ross students. Now I know that you have seen some real winners during your stay, but I have to tell you some of the med studs from your alma mata aren't the sharpest tools in the shed either. You can call it propaganda if you like, to an extent that is true, but not every person that applies to a US school gets in. It is just a mater of numbers. Most of ross's applicants did not deserve to gain admittance to a US school, I am no exception. Many other ross students got wait listed at us schools., so they decided to wait in the carribean. No one will ever argue that ross is a business. No one will agrue that they take too many people and have a high attrition rate. Those that have the intellectual capacity and desire to suceed, do. Those that don't,don't.
Only the people that are ready to sit for step 1 will be allowed to sit. Is every person in a US school ready to sit for step 1 when they do, obviously not because if they were the pass rate would be 100%. Ross has many problems, and no one ever wanted to go there, but it acts as a means to an end for those who truly have the desire and ability to become doctors.
P.S. one more thing. Whoever says that they would rather go to an insland school over a DO school, is F. O. S.
11-16-2000, 10:21 PM
I think that Ross has nothing to worry about in regards to profit. Every time they break even, they will just open another entering class during the year until they have a new entering class every month. Where are they up to now?? 3 entering classes a year. ENOUGH SAID.
11-18-2000, 11:09 AM
I don't question the competency of students from the Island schools. I don't even question the graduates of these schools who make it back to the US.
What I do have a problem with, when it comes to Island schools, is the way they operate. I have a problem with them being a business and taking in so many students only to weed a bunch of them out. Are these really chances these schools are offering to hopeful doctors? Or is it highway robbery?
I've met and worked with plenty of Island school grads in the past year and a half in med school and they've all been great. It's not an attack on your cohort, it's an attack on the business side of Island medicine.
Oh, and I don't really appreciate all the DO vs. Island MD stuff either. http://www.studentdoctor.net/bbs/smile.gif
Tim of New York City.
11-18-2000, 12:12 PM
You are wrong. American medical schools are not businesses. The average med school has ~125 students. Multiply that by $40,000 in student fees and you get about 5 million each year. They need to pay for all the staff, facilities, etc, and they would be lucky if they broke even. True there have been schools with financial difficulties in the past(oral roberts university, for example), but instead of compromising education and reputation by opening another class, they opted to close down.
On the other hand, beach mills have an entering class of 200 X 3 classes per year X $40,000 and you get $24 milion. considering the cheap cost of running a school overseas with subpar facilities, damn thats a high profit margin. No wonder the US military won't consider students from beach mill schools for their scholarships. I'm suprized that the government offers student loans to you guys.
Gosh, I should drop out of med school and just open one myself in the beach. I'm sure theres an island that would want me to bring business to their area.
PS: See you in the wards, and prepare to get Schooled.
[This message has been edited by LoserAlert (edited 11-18-2000).]
As a medical student, I rotated with several Ross students, for the most part excellent and hard-working. They do weed out the bad ones before clinical rotations. However, the foreign grad stigma is all too real and dangerous. If you can, apply again to osteopathic medical programs. Without a doubt, you will significantly increase your chances of obtaining any residency, not just primary care. It all depends on your grades ( just like for the state-side MD studetns). Fundung issues with being a foreign graduate will come into play when matching for residency. Unfortunately, they don't just look at qualifications. Even though, I am sure Ross provides a fine education, from what I have seen.
To whomever was putting down podiatry, that is reprehensible. I have worked with fine podiatrists who are as well versed in medicne as physicians. They choose their specialty early on, as do dentists and other health professionals. With such comments, I strongly question the ethical grounds with which you practice medicine. And, unless you are a neurosurgeon at Harvard (and then not even), you should be quiet. And for the record, I too am an officer in the United States Air Force.
Detroit Rock City
11-20-2000, 06:04 AM
Unfortunately, I agree with you. I feel that ross needs to review it's practices, but since it is a for profit orginazition, I doubt that that will ever happen. Money makes the world go round.
I'm happy to see that you think that you will be able to school all of us FMG's. I personally welcome the opportunity. I guaratee that there are FMG's that would make you run home to momma, but at least you are arrogant. You in surgery? If not, you should be!
11-20-2000, 04:39 PM
Medicine is medicine. If I graduate from a "beach mill" school, yet end up equivalent with my U.S. counterpart in the end; what's all the hoopla about? S C O R E B O A R D!!! As for going to a US DO school, I was accepted to LECOM, TUORO, PCOM, and OUCOM. If you give me your address LoserAlert I'll mail the acceptance packets to you. But lets just lose the whole FMG stigma for a second, if all you ever wanted to be in life was an MD, and I mean that was the ONLY thing you ever saw for yourself, but because of two bad semesters the doors to your dream where slammed shut, what would you do? Really consider it. I know its easier to post a slam on "beach mill" schools, but what else should I do? Settle for something that I don't whole-heartedly believe in, i.e. osteopathic medicine? How much harder would it be to study courses that you really don't care about ON TOP of your regular medical school curriculum?
About the for profit B.S. of "Beach Mills", I agree they exist solely to make money. But if they were unsuccessful in producing viable MD's, wouldn't they all be bankrupt? Just for the hee-haw of it all, I know personally, that CWRU School of Medicine brought in over $65 Million in endowments last year, and that was a "bad" year. FYI, that is endowments alone, not including state funding, federal grant money, provisional city tax breaks, etc. If you go to a school that pulls in $5 Million a year, then YOU, my friend, are attending "Crazy Al's Discount Medical School."
Personally, I would do anything to go to a US allopathic school, I just have hit the end of the line with time, how many more years can I waste not making money but spending it on graduate and post bacc. educations to prove my merits to a medical school admissions commitee? I don't want to learn advanced biochemistry 999, molecular biology 878, etc. I want to be an MD. Maybe one day we'll meet, and you can put me down in person for being a "beach mill" graduate, but my degree will still be worth exactly what yours is worth, and no amount of bashing can change that. Everyone can argue about how bad "Beach Mills" suck, their graduates suck, the accomodations suck, the islands suck, but the MD on the other side won't suck. But whatever, I don't know you, I really don't want to. Your opinion isn't going to change, and I'm certainly not going to change it, nor is it my duty to. God is going to give you the keys to heaven because you stayed stateside and didn't stray to the evil caribbean like me, big f*_@ing deal. So I had to be a bit more resourceful and work a lot harder, when is that something to scoff at? You know what...you really don't even deserve my time to respond to this crap...no one here is changing anything. Your words amount to exactly nothing. This forum isn't for discussion, its for online hazing. Just look, its 10 peoples' opinions on FMG's, big deal. It doesn't seem to be stopping their licensure. Talk on, this is my last post, I'd rather do something constructive like defecate. Good luck everyone, maybe we'll meet someday...I hope not...but if we do...let me know how bad my medical education was; err...how will you know, hmm...I guess I'll just be the one wearing the FMG stamp on my forehead. The_Sherminator has officially left the forums.
11-20-2000, 10:47 PM
Actually, I think your degree will be worth more than mine. you paid more for it. I am a California resident going to a state school, so tuition is really cheap for me.