I am curious to know why you chose pharmacy school over med school?
I had been considering both in the past and am wondering if anyone else was also deciding from these two options? and why?

I am curious to know why you chose pharmacy school over med school?
I had been considering both in the past and am wondering if anyone else was also deciding from these two options? and why?

this is probably obvious and not extrememly helpful for everyone (as we know this site is full of overachieving solid-3.89-4.0 GPA students) but one reason could be that pharmacy school is easier to get into than med school in terms of statistics (and of course PCAT is quite easier than MCAT...plus don't even need a BS in a lot of cases!). :idea:

Its also shorter, less expensive, good pay, flexible hours, many different types of jobs: retail, clinical, bench research, hospital, specialized... etc)

Its also shorter, less expensive, good pay, flexible hours, many different types of jobs: retail, clinical, bench research, hospital, specialized... etc)

Is it okay to say this if asked in an interview??:confused:

Is it okay to say this if asked in an interview??:confused:

alright you ruined this thread in my opinion....well people PLEASE KEEP GOING ON THE ADVANTAGES OF PHARM SCHOOL as Contrasted to MED SCHOOl...Im tryin to make the decision myself and leaning towards pharm school :D

Hey Nae614 btw: you can easily do a search on this subject and find some threads...why pharmacy school or pharm interview and you;ll find people's comments...i know a couple good threads of that nature exist.

Is it okay to say this if asked in an interview??:confused:

oh and use ur judgement...you can twist these selfish or lazy sounding responses to ones that show ur moral character. ex: he said good pay , flexible hours; you say- I would like a profession which I do not have to spend a lot of time and work, and need to option to schedule my own hours- to take care of my future children which will be a priority in my life over my work and I want to ensure they have a comfortable life; he said shorter/less expensive; you say I dont wanna burden my parents, who are as for not that well off, with my tuiton, etc, and I dont want to take many loans after so much already in undergraduate...etc etc, u can figure which "excuses" sound good to u:laugh:

alright you ruined this thread in my opinion....well people PLEASE KEEP GOING ON THE ADVANTAGES OF PHARM SCHOOL as Contrasted to MED SCHOOl...Im tryin to make the decision myself and leaning towards pharm school :D

Hey Nae614 btw: you can easily do a search on this subject and find some threads...why pharmacy school or pharm interview and you;ll find people's comments...i know a couple good threads of that nature exist.

Why pharmacy?? I went to nursing school. I hated it. You were told what to do and when to do it. Everything was set in stone and there were no "options". After working in a pharmacy, there is no where else I'd rather be for the next 50 years of my life. There is so much to learn in a pharmacy. Always new drugs, new compounds, new this, new that. So many opportunities in different fields too. Retail, hospital, whatever. You don't have to go practice in an office seeing patients day in and out. You get time to spend with your family. You're not always working. Good pay is just a plus. I love the opportunity to learn something new when I go to work everyday.

Is it okay to say this if asked in an interview??:confused:

No - it wouldn't be okay to say it.....but you could try!

Agree with another poster.....use the search function...then search your heart. This would be a question which is asked of YOU. There is no right answer...only yours.

I am curious to know why you chose pharmacy school over med school?
I had been considering both in the past and am wondering if anyone else was also deciding from these two options? and why?

I'am not a pre-pharm. I was just browsing this forum and came across this post.

Its like asking an electrical engineer why did you chose electrical engineering over Mechanical Engineering. Pharmacy and Medicine are two totally different fields.Pharmacy is the study of development & dispensing of drugs. Medicine is medical practice. MD doesnt make drugs, he just prescribes them. A Pharmacist is involved in developing of drugs, research,etc. In Medical School you take courses in Pharmacology but its not Pharmacy. So you cant do the work of a Pharmacist if you do MD.

If someone has a desire to practice medicine he would go to Medical School. if someone has a desire to develop or dispense drugs, he would go to Pharmacy School.It would be very ignorant to say that Pre-pharm students join Pharmacy because they didnt had stats to join Med school or they liked Pharm School because it was shorter. Its about their preference, even if a guy has 4.0 gpa but he likes Pharmacy he would go to Pharmacy no matter it takes 4yrs or 8yrs. its his interest.

They are two different branches of Healthcare system. You should make up your mind what do you want to do. Best option is shadowing a D.pharm as well as a MD.

I can sum it up in two words: bodily fluids.

I'am not a pre-pharm. I was just browsing this forum and came across this post.

Its like asking an electrical engineer why did you chose electrical engineering over Mechanical Engineering. Pharmacy and Medicine are two totally different fields.Pharmacy is the study of development & dispensing of drugs. Medicine is medical practice. MD doesnt make drugs, he just prescribes them. A Pharmacist is involved in developing of drugs, research,etc. In Medical School you take courses in Pharmacology but its not Pharmacy. So you cant do the work of a Pharmacist if you do MD.

If someone has a desire to practice medicine he would go to Medical School. if someone has a desire to develop or dispense drugs, he would go to Pharmacy School.It would be very ignorant to say that Pre-pharm students join Pharmacy because they didnt had stats to join Med school or they liked Pharm School because it was shorter. Its about their preference, even if a guy has 4.0 gpa but he likes Pharmacy he would go to Pharmacy no matter it takes 4yrs or 8yrs. its his interest.

They are two different branches of Healthcare system. You should make up your mind what do you want to do. Best option is shadowing a D.pharm as well as a MD.



I completely agree with you! I was going to say the same thing but you said it very well! ;)

In contrast to medical school, pharmacy is more about business and economics. Btw, education seems the cost the same (in California where it'll be $200K).

Personally, if you would like to dedicate your life to healthcare and spend 100+ hours/week in the field... be my guest and apply to medical school and "save the world." If you're concerned about having healthier lifestyle pharmacy is a better choice.

In contrast to medical school, pharmacy is more about business and economics. Btw, education seems the cost the same (in California where it'll be $200K).

Personally, if you would like to dedicate your life to healthcare and spend 100+ hours/week in the field... be my guest and apply to medical school and "save the world." If you're concerned about having healthier lifestyle pharmacy is a better choice.

What does that mean..."education seems the cost the same?" are you saying that the cost of pharmacy education is the same as medicine? What difference does that make?

Altho business & economics was always a consideration in my job, it was never my priority since I never owned a business (except that of being a spouse of a business owner...which makes me a part owner with no say at all:p ).

When I work in a hospital....I don't worry about the budget - that is not my job...that is the job of the dop. When I'm on the P&T committee, my job is to advise on the best available drug in all aspects - economics is only one. Sometimes, the more expensive drug really does make the better choice, but not always (often you have to know how "bundled" contracts are arranged).

When I work retail...I work for a large corporation. I really don't care...if the claim goes thru - I'm all good. They have contratual arrangements which are so far beyond my involvement that if they've agreed to accept $0.30 for each $1.00 submittted...who am I to disagree?

But...what does that have to do with what is of ultimate interest to an individual? It wouldn't have mattered what the cost of a medical education was, I didn't want to be a physician. Likewise...I could have sent my daughter to pharmacy school for much less money than I'm spending on her medical education...but...that wasn't her interest.

I don't even agree the lifestyle of a pharmacist is healthier. I've known many overworked, stressed pharmacists who don't know how to set limits on what people want from them. How is that healthy?

Because Medical school is a bit overrated.
I mean even the question you asked is somewhat centered on medical school.

I second the bodily fluids part. If it involves blood, cutting, scapels, stitching, needles, etc. I get a bit light-headed. :scared: I think I will have trouble doing flu shots when I start. :( My gf told me when she did the flu shot, one of her classmates went too deep and poked the bone??!?! Or maybe she was trying to scare me on purpose. Either way, the thought already creeps me out.

Is it okay to say this if asked in an interview??:confused:


OMG no....please don't say that in your interview. I was told over and over again to never mention anything related to money or the "ease" of the job in terms of hours, whatever. If they ask you that, just talk about how you think Pharmaceutical care is important and you want to be a part of it and blah blah blah.....I don't think the interview is completely about being honest, it doesn't really matter what your motives are if you're going to be a good pharmacist in the end.......just tell them what they want to hear....everyone else does......sad...but tru.

I can sum it up in two words: bodily fluids.

dont forget "compound fractures"

Definitely the only reason I wouldn't do medicine. Can't stand blood, guts, gore. Don't want to hear about chronic vomit, check out foot fungus, and certainly not stick my finger up ... you get the picture.

I understand I'm only looking at negatives in MD, but you know what, that's all I need to know right there.

OMG no....please don't say that in your interview. I was told over and over again to never mention anything related to money or the "ease" of the job in terms of hours, whatever. If they ask you that, just talk about how you think Pharmaceutical care is important and you want to be a part of it and blah blah blah.....I don't think the interview is completely about being honest, it doesn't really matter what your motives are if you're going to be a good pharmacist in the end.......just tell them what they want to hear....everyone else does......sad...but tru.


Well, my advice is to be honest. However, if your main reason is money and only money, then I guess you "need to lie." Although everyone here can tell you the money isn't worth the work itself.

During my interview, I did bring up the idea of having good flexible hours so I can spend time with family, the long term need for pharmacists/job-security and it's a good, well-compensated, well respected profession. However, I stressed the idea of helping people and being so open/accessible to the public and having a career you can feel good about (which are my main reasons of being a pharmacist).

If you give a generic answer such as (I like helping people and blah blah) they're going to ask you WHY NOT be a physician or nurse.

Coming from economics point of view, if you want to make money, become a financial consultant (series 7 and 66 licenses only cert's you need, which I still hold thanks to Wells Fargo :) ) or do investment banking.

"Pharmacy vs. Agricultural Engineering"

I chose pharmacy over med school, because I want to help people and make a difference in people's lives -- but I don't like to touch people I don't know. You could say I'm not a big hands-on person. Also, pharmacy has the potential to provide a more flexible schedule when I'm married and have kids.

i have a quick question about this question that was asked this year at midwestern for the interview process...

explain your last group project, and explain what you would do if one of the group member doesnt do his/her work

i have thought about the second part of this question...but i cant find a way to answer it...you cant say like oh i will complain or somethig stupid.

i would really appreciate you guys feedback on this question

thanks

I'd probably pick up his or her dead weight to get the project completed in due fashion and not impact anyone else's grade in my group. Even if Slacker X gets a sweet grade on the group project in question, s/he certainly won't get a good grade in the class (and ostensibly, the class grade isn't 100% based on the project, LOL). Chances are, the instructor already has noticed that this student is a slacker and low speed, high drag... So if you're not a whiny type, and you can't feasibly remove the offending student from your group, I'd just go with the high-road, professional approach.

Doesn't necessarily "teach a lesson" but then again, it's not your place as a student to be 'teaching lessons'.

I'd probably pick up his or her dead weight to get the project completed in due fashion and not impact anyone else's grade in my group. Even if Slacker X gets a sweet grade on the group project in question, s/he certainly won't get a good grade in the class (and ostensibly, the class grade isn't 100% based on the project, LOL). Chances are, the instructor already has noticed that this student is a slacker and low speed, high drag... So if you're not a whiny type, and you can't feasibly remove the offending student from your group, I'd just go with the high-road, professional approach.

Doesn't necessarily "teach a lesson" but then again, it's not your place as a student to be 'teaching lessons'.

+1... :thumbup:;) WOW... does that really say 2006?

i have a quick question about this question that was asked this year at midwestern for the interview process...

explain your last group project, and explain what you would do if one of the group member doesnt do his/her work

i have thought about the second part of this question...but i cant find a way to answer it...you cant say like oh i will complain or somethig stupid.

i would really appreciate you guys feedback on this question

thanks

Just say you'd kick their candy ass until they did their work. Or threaten to kill their dog. That usually works too.

I can sum it up in two words: bodily fluids.



DITTO! :thumbup:

honestly, i don't even see a relation between pharmacy and medical, other than the fact that they're both health-care related fields. they are completely different areas of study and i hope nobody picked pharmacy "over" med school (especially if they think it was just easier to get into). to choose pharmacy, you have to enjoy the study of pharmaceutics (more chem/bio chem than seen in medical). to succeed pharmacy, you have to have the right drive. Picking pharm as your backup choice won't get you very far in pharmacy.

I am curious to know why you chose pharmacy school over med school?
I had been considering both in the past and am wondering if anyone else was also deciding from these two options? and why?

I am a 30 year old career changer so this will reflect my own thoughts.

When I went to college I was dead set on becoming an anesthesiologist. My best friend was going to be the surgeon me the anesthesiologist and we were going to start our own practice and life would have been good. The more and more I was going through college the more and more I realized I didn't want to go to medical school, so one day I said the hell with it. My best friend is a a surgeon (orthopedics) and I can say I do not envy his life at all. He bitched at me for 4 years saying I should have gone to medical school with him, and then he hasn't had any control of his life since he graduated top 10% of his medical school class because of the matching process and residency requirements. He works 80 hours per week and I am sure he goes over that and doesn't log hours. He cannot walk away from work and is always on call. He is married and doesn't spend much time with his wife because he is working. Once he gets done with his 5 year program making $40K per year he has to do another 1 year fellowship making $40K if he wants to stay in Louisville, KY. If not, he already has job offers. He will start out making about $400K per year but he is married to his job.

Pharmacy - I chose this because I can help patients in a why that I find to be interesting, I will work 40 hours per week and earn around $100K starting out. I am married with a 2-year old son so I can still be a family man and leave work at work. You earn a solid income and you have work-life balance, which is what I want. Remember, I've never heard any man say he wished he worked more on his death bed....just sayin'. ;)

honestly, i don't even see a relation between pharmacy and medical, other than the fact that they're both health-care related fields.

There is actually a pretty big relationship between the two. Medical diagnosises and pharmacy treats.

I never want to have to ask someone to urinate in a cup and then give it back to me. I just want to say, "take two of these and call me in the morning." You Med students can keep your cups.

There is actually a pretty big relationship between the two. Medical diagnosises and pharmacy treats.

obviously you misunderstood. i mean in their respective professions, a doctor and a pharmacist will be doing completely different things, and will be exposed to different situations. choosing a career path (pharm vs med) is highly dependent on what you want to see yourself doing in 5-10+ years. The roles are completely different.

I am a 30 year old career changer so this will reflect my own thoughts.

When I went to college I was dead set on becoming an anesthesiologist. My best friend was going to be the surgeon me the anesthesiologist and we were going to start our own practice and life would have been good. The more and more I was going through college the more and more I realized I didn't want to go to medical school, so one day I said the hell with it. My best friend is a a surgeon (orthopedics) and I can say I do not envy his life at all. He bitched at me for 4 years saying I should have gone to medical school with him, and then he hasn't had any control of his life since he graduated top 10% of his medical school class because of the matching process and residency requirements. He works 80 hours per week and I am sure he goes over that and doesn't log hours. He cannot walk away from work and is always on call. He is married and doesn't spend much time with his wife because he is working. Once he gets done with his 5 year program making $40K per year he has to do another 1 year fellowship making $40K if he wants to stay in Louisville, KY. If not, he already has job offers. He will start out making about $400K per year but he is married to his job.

Pharmacy - I chose this because I can help patients in a why that I find to be interesting, I will work 40 hours per week and earn around $100K starting out. I am married with a 2-year old son so I can still be a family man and leave work at work. You earn a solid income and you have work-life balance, which is what I want. Remember, I've never heard any man say he wished he worked more on his death bed....just sayin'. ;)

heyy wes ^ ^ anesthesiologist? my mom currently works as a CRNA, and i was just thinking about going AA[anesthesiologist assistant], school after getting my pharmd. but, i dunno. anyway... i was just wondering if you noticed the date of Nae614s, post? :meanie:

heyy wes ^ ^ anesthesiologist? my mom currently works as a CRNA, and i was just thinking about going AA[anesthesiologist assistant], school after getting my pharmd. but, i dunno. anyway... i was just wondering if you noticed the date of Nae614s, post? :meanie:


I just found out about that program about 2 weeks ago. Kind of interesting but I am still sticking with Pharmacy because that is my dream.

I just found out about that program about 2 weeks ago. Kind of interesting but I am still sticking with Pharmacy because that is my dream.

heyy d ^ ^ yeah, i'm looking into it now :D

Why pharmacy?? I went to nursing school. I hated it. You were told what to do and when to do it. Everything was set in stone and there were no "options". After working in a pharmacy, there is no where else I'd rather be for the next 50 years of my life. There is so much to learn in a pharmacy. Always new drugs, new compounds, new this, new that. So many opportunities in different fields too. Retail, hospital, whatever. You don't have to go practice in an office seeing patients day in and out. You get time to spend with your family. You're not always working. Good pay is just a plus. I love the opportunity to learn something new when I go to work everyday.

God, I couldn't have said it better myself. I totally agree. And judging by your reply, that's plain experience talking...a source that simply cannot be refuted.

OMG no....please don't say that in your interview. I was told over and over again to never mention anything related to money or the "ease" of the job in terms of hours, whatever. If they ask you that, just talk about how you think Pharmaceutical care is important and you want to be a part of it and blah blah blah.....I don't think the interview is completely about being honest, it doesn't really matter what your motives are if you're going to be a good pharmacist in the end.......just tell them what they want to hear....everyone else does......sad...but tru.

During my interview at Madison a couple weeks ago, I was interviewed by two female pharmacists. Since it was more of a conversation, they brought up how they got into pharmacy, and both of them highlighted the fact that especially for females, it is a better choice than being a doctor. They repeated it several times, and it was obviously an important deciding factor for them. The hours are more reasonable, and it is easier to raise a family. I wouldn't have said this outright, but they brought it up first. As a female who plans to marry and have a family, I think that it IS an important deciding factor.

On the topic of medical school vs. pharmacy school...two other major things for me: the bodily fluids part and the fact that I only needed 2 years of pre-reqs for pharmacy school as opposed to a BS for medical school. Save some time and some money.

I genuinely enjoy pharmacology and I want to do research in biologics and pharmacogenomics. There will always be new things to learn and I enjoy direct patient care. I hope to become a "lifer" for the institution I work at now which is the largest non-profit integrated health system in the country. I am truly amazed by what the pharmacists do here and their impact on improving the quality of life for patients. It has the fast-paced challenging environment that I seek while offering consistent hours.

bodily fluids

bodily fluids

Blood doesn't bother me as much as excrement, urine, and pus.

Blood doesn't bother me as much as excrement, urine, and pus.

Don't those all count as bodily fluids?

Don't those all count as bodily fluids?

Why yes, but I am saying that BLOOD doesn't bother me like other bodily fluids do.

I am curious to know why you chose pharmacy school over med school?
I had been considering both in the past and am wondering if anyone else was also deciding from these two options? and why?

IMO, this question indicates a lack of experience...shadow a pharmacist and shadow a doctor, etc. and decide for yourself.

I second the bodily fluids part. If it involves blood, cutting, scapels, stitching, needles, etc. I get a bit light-headed. :scared: I think I will have trouble doing flu shots when I start. :( My gf told me when she did the flu shot, one of her classmates went too deep and poked the bone??!?! Or maybe she was trying to scare me on purpose. Either way, the thought already creeps me out.
Sounds like a lie to me. The needles on modern syringes are only like 1/4 inch long.

Why all the aversions to bodily fluids/human anatomy? Personally, I could watch a heart transplant while eating a steak, but each to his own I guess.

Bones don't have nerve endings as far as I know, so it doesn't actually hurt you - you just feel a slight pressure.

I've been poked in a bone quite a number of times, especially during the immunization training and it's not painful.

Bones don't have nerve endings as far as I know, so it doesn't actually hurt you - you just feel a slight pressure.

I've been poked in a bone quite a number of times, especially during the immunization training and it's not painful.

Bones do have nerve endings. Talk to anybody that has ever donated bone marrow :)

Sounds like a lie to me. The needles on modern syringes are only like 1/4 inch long.

Why all the aversions to bodily fluids/human anatomy? Personally, I could watch a heart transplant while eating a steak, but each to his own I guess.

I have seen a heart transplant and I did just fine! Blood and organs don't bother me. It is excrement that bothers me the most.

I also had an experience where someone had to get ear wax removed and it was honestly just yuck. And I've seen skin lesions which made me want to gag. Even putting ointment on a pus filled, discolored wound was not my cup of tea. Of course, I think everyone just treats it like a job. Just something you do.

I personally find bed sores gross. I won't post one here, but if you go to google and enter "bed sores" under images, you'll see what I mean.

This is why there is a shortage of primary care physicians. There are enough physicians, all specializing in the name of medicine, but not primary care. This is also why physician assistants and nurse practitioners came onto the scene.

Pharmacy and Medicine are not related. At all. You get top board scores, you can specialize. If you don't may just end up in primary care. I respect primary care physicians very much so, but that is just not how I want my life to play out.

There is a need for primary care because it doesn't pay well (relatively speaking).

I have seen a heart transplant and I did just fine! Blood and organs don't bother me. It is excrement that bothers me the most.
Well I'm sure that no doctor particularly likes feces, so I wouldn't say you're alone on that one. But how often would you actually come into contact with it unless you were some kind of GI surgeon? It's not like everyone admitted to a hospital comes in spewing the stuff.

I actually have no problem examining patients or any of the blood, bodily fluids, I'm hoping pharmacy evolves into allowing pharmacists to do more of that stuff. I chose pharmacy because I'm more interested in the way drugs work rather than the way the human body works.

I actually have no problem examining patients or any of the blood, bodily fluids, I'm hoping pharmacy evolves into allowing pharmacists to do more of that stuff. I chose pharmacy because I'm more interested in the way drugs work rather than the way the human body works.
what about how drugs work within the human body? :p

wait nvm isn't that what pharmacy's about hahaha

This is why there is a shortage of primary care physicians. There are enough physicians, all specializing in the name of medicine, but not primary care. This is also why physician assistants and nurse practitioners came onto the scene.

Pharmacy and Medicine are not related. At all. You get top board scores, you can specialize. If you don't may just end up in primary care. I respect primary care physicians very much so, but that is just not how I want my life to play out.

I respectfully disagree with this statement. Pharmacy schools include clinical training, including the taking of histories, in their curriculums. Clinical pharmacists can participate in patient care. In some cases, they have authority to prescribe (within a scope of practice), such as in cardiac, diabetes, and psychiatric clinics.

Sounds like a lie to me. The needles on modern syringes are only like 1/4 inch long.

Why all the aversions to bodily fluids/human anatomy? Personally, I could watch a heart transplant while eating a steak, but each to his own I guess.

Good luck doing IM injections with a 1/4 inch needle. LOL
Stick to pharmacy.

I am interested in going into pharmacy, but what worries me is if I will always have the job security of a doctor? Any thoughts?

Needles, fuilds, etc. but especially anything related to pain. A friend once said I was likely tortured in a past life ;)

I really like the chemistry behind pharm., even the chemistry of nutrition. Puts a positive spin on the whole concept of health.

I actually have no problem examining patients or any of the blood, bodily fluids, I'm hoping pharmacy evolves into allowing pharmacists to do more of that stuff. I chose pharmacy because I'm more interested in the way drugs work rather than the way the human body works.
YES thank you finally, pharmacy won't move forward if all these people in here are "scared of bodily fluids."

SUCK IT UP people you're in health care. That retail counter won't always be pretty you know that right. Someone's going to walk up to you with something disgusting and need your help.

granted you won't be dealing with insanely bloody/horrific situations such as MD's, but in order for pharmacists to become more clinical oriented and patient involved they need to break down some of those barriers!

I actually have no problem examining patients or any of the blood, bodily fluids, I'm hoping pharmacy evolves into allowing pharmacists to do more of that stuff. I chose pharmacy because I'm more interested in the way drugs work rather than the way the human body works.
YES thank you finally, pharmacy won't move forward if all these people in here are "scared of bodily fluids."

SUCK IT UP people you're in health care. That retail counter won't always be pretty you know that right. Someone's going to walk up to you with something disgusting and need your help.

granted you won't be dealing with insanely bloody/horrific situations such as MD's, but in order for pharmacists to become more clinical oriented and patient involved they need to break down some of those barriers!

No MCAT/PCAT (california schools), faster start to a career in the pharmaceutical industry/government job, easier? to pursue dual degree programs

YES thank you finally, pharmacy won't move forward if all these people in here are "scared of bodily fluids."

SUCK IT UP people you're in health care. That retail counter won't always be pretty you know that right. Someone's going to walk up to you with something disgusting and need your help.

granted you won't be dealing with insanely bloody/horrific situations such as MD's, but in order for pharmacists to become more clinical oriented and patient involved they need to break down some of those barriers!

No retail here- going into hospital pharmacy. Only if you could see (and smell) some of the stuff I have seen and smelled...HA! And I have sucked it up :) More than you know!

Personally, I think all health care professionals should be trained to perform emergency surgery.

Well I'm sure that no doctor particularly likes feces, so I wouldn't say you're alone on that one. But how often would you actually come into contact with it unless you were some kind of GI surgeon? It's not like everyone admitted to a hospital comes in spewing the stuff.

haha poop

Personally, I think all health care professionals should be trained to perform emergency surgery.

It takes more than a couple of classes and practice dummy to perform emergency surgery. In fact, trauma surgery is currently a 1-2 year fellowship after a general surgery residency that is 5-6 years long itself.

Well I'm sure that no doctor particularly likes feces, so I wouldn't say you're alone on that one. But how often would you actually come into contact with it unless you were some kind of GI surgeon? It's not like everyone admitted to a hospital comes in spewing the stuff.

Dermatology would be the only thing I would consider doing if I was in medical school. I would not mind going to med school if I could get into a derm residency. LOL...but any other field is not good.

Same with dentistry...the only field there worth doing is Ortho.

It's always best to choose the most clean area of practice. I have the grades to get into both med and dental schools (was in dental school before pharmacy), but the lack of guarantee to get an Derm and Ortho residency is most likely the reason why I would not go into either fields.

I wonder what Independent Duty Corpsmen go through, as far as surgery training. There is no doc underway on submarines.

Open an independent and kick big corporate imperialist asses

Personally, I think all health care professionals should be trained to perform emergency surgery.

Ha, yeah, patient walks up to the counter saying "I'm having a little trouble breathing. What do you suggest?"

You then reply, "Well, let's rule out fluid in the chest so plop up here and grit your teeth. I'm going to give you a chest tube."


Procedures are neat. I've seen plenty and have also done some things as a paramedic. That said, once you do it a few times it becomes kind of a no biggie, or at least for me. None of the "gore" bothers me. I've worn all human fluids and excrements, lol.

I'm seriously considering pharmacy as an alternative to medicine for a host of reasons. I've wondered if some past medic experience would be any kind of plus for pharm school admission. At any rate, I'm with you on procedures. ;)

It takes more than a couple of classes and practice dummy to perform emergency surgery. In fact, trauma surgery is currently a 1-2 year fellowship after a general surgery residency that is 5-6 years long itself.

I think he's talking more of the wilderness kind...like a boulder falls on your leg, and all you have is a leather strap and a can of tuna sort of thing.

Otherwise, definitely not.

It takes more than a couple of classes and practice dummy to perform emergency surgery. In fact, trauma surgery is currently a 1-2 year fellowship after a general surgery residency that is 5-6 years long itself.

Hmm, not that advanced silly, I'm talking about what paramedics and military field medics know.

.

Definitely do what you feel is in your heart, just remember in both fields you have a person's life in your hands.

follow him and he promised to talk a lot about the pharmacy profession!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQweFHeXo8

Hat while recording video = epic fail.
:confused:

During my interview at Madison a couple weeks ago, I was interviewed by two female pharmacists. Since it was more of a conversation, they brought up how they got into pharmacy, and both of them highlighted the fact that especially for females, it is a better choice than being a doctor. They repeated it several times, and it was obviously an important deciding factor for them. The hours are more reasonable, and it is easier to raise a family. I wouldn't have said this outright, but they brought it up first. As a female who plans to marry and have a family, I think that it IS an important deciding factor.

On the topic of medical school vs. pharmacy school...two other major things for me: the bodily fluids part and the fact that I only needed 2 years of pre-reqs for pharmacy school as opposed to a BS for medical school. Save some time and some money.

A pharmacist I know used to be on the adcom at a particular school (not one that I applied to though) and she told me the same thing. I was discussing the interview process with her and she said that is one reason she liked pharmacy, but then again she didn't tell me to actually say that.

I personally don't want to start a family... I always considered myself the workaholic married to my job and/or school type- but I like everything about pharmacy so much more than any other health professions. I was never the type who knew in high school exactly what I wanted to do, so I researched and shadowed various health professionals. At the end of the day pharmacy was the the only career I knew I would be completely happy doing for the rest of my life (assuming I get in to a school). I say career as in (doctor, dentist, PA, nurse, etc)... I will obviously have a back up in case I am never accepted into pharmacy school in the near future. Hopefully that doesn't happen though! I am 22 so I have a little more time. :o

Hmm, not that advanced silly, I'm talking about what paramedics and military field medics know.

Then go to school at night for a while and become a paramedic. I did it. It's not hard. Other than a surgical airway you won't be learning any emergency surgery or even suturing for that matter.

Just as a follow-up:

Independent Duty Corpsman (http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/nshs-sd/Pages/IndependentDutyCorpsmanProgram.aspx)

"To begin with, you can say that I practice medicine without a license. I maintain a fully stocked pharmacy complete with narcotics, antibiotics, and many other medications which I am authorized to prescribe for my patients. I maintain a fully operational emergency room complete with cardiac drugs, and an operating room with its various and sundry appliances and surgical instruments. I perform surgical procedures. I am the ship’s psychologist and, at times, the psychiatrist if drugs are required. I am the ship’s nurse, orderly, and medical janitor. "

Is there any course like this for health care professionals? Someone mentioned that paramedics get their feet wet.

Just as a follow-up:

Independent Duty Corpsman (http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/nshs-sd/Pages/IndependentDutyCorpsmanProgram.aspx)

"To begin with, you can say that I practice medicine without a license. I maintain a fully stocked pharmacy complete with narcotics, antibiotics, and many other medications which I am authorized to prescribe for my patients. I maintain a fully operational emergency room complete with cardiac drugs, and an operating room with its various and sundry appliances and surgical instruments. I perform surgical procedures. I am the ship’s psychologist and, at times, the psychiatrist if drugs are required. I am the ship’s nurse, orderly, and medical janitor. "

Is there any course like this for health care professionals? Someone mentioned that paramedics get their feet wet.

The closest you'll get with paramedics is those out on oil platforms which do some of the above, albeit not full blown surgery or perhaps those EMT-P/RNs on helicopters. Some of them get to take advanced trauma life support (ATLS). Of course there are a couple of combined PharmD/P.A. programs out there. I think there's a combined PharmD/FNP program somewhere I've seen, but NPs don't seem to get as much surgical training.

I disagree with the "all doctors should know how to perform emergency surgery" statement. Although the basic procedures are not very complex to perform it takes ongoing practice to maintain your skills. Non-emergency physicians are better off doing AHA approved CPR/first aid.
If you're looking for an exciting job with lots of medical experience join the military and become a corpsman or better yet an air force PJ. You will gain real experience - but don't go to college to become a paramedic if your educational goals are higher.

I've got quite a few military medical manuals saved on my desktop as well as several other field manuals. Interesting reading.

Most are .pdf while others are .doc.

I never want to have to ask someone to urinate in a cup and then give it back to me. I just want to say, "take two of these and call me in the morning." You Med students can keep your cups.
I would love to say this in an interview haha if only I had the guts. :laugh:

I disagree with the "all doctors should know how to perform emergency surgery" statement. Although the basic procedures are not very complex to perform it takes ongoing practice to maintain your skills. Non-emergency physicians are better off doing AHA approved CPR/first aid.
If you're looking for an exciting job with lots of medical experience join the military and become a corpsman or better yet an air force PJ. You will gain real experience - but don't go to college to become a paramedic if your educational goals are higher.

This makes no sense. While corpsmen are responsible for quite a bit, the training they complete is similar to that of an EMT-intermediate; it's not even close to the level of training of a paramedic. Also, to say that you would be better off joining the military as an enlisted soldier/sailor/airman instead of becoming a paramedic on the basis of wanting to further your education is nonsense. If continuing your education is your goal and you want/need healthcare experience, becoming a paramedic is better. This only takes 1.5 years and you will have greater medical knowledge. How do I know this? I work with several corpsmen and they are great guys, but they don't have the same knowledge base. They are trained heavily on trauma and thats about it. No real physiology, pharmacology, or ACLS protocols among others. If you enlist you will be spending several years in the military, which isn't a bad thing just not the quick way to pharm/med school. BTW becoming a PJ is also very competitive. Becoming a member of any elite SF is nothing to sneeze at. I believe SF medics are quite a bit different than corpsmen and regular medics and have one of the longest training for MOSs. This would probably be the closes thing to a civilian paramedic in the military. If you are that motivated to become one why would you do all that training and hard work just to stop and then go back to school?

Pharmacy and Medicine are not related. At all.

Uhhhh....mmmmmm......eeeeee



Do you even know what goes on in a pharmacy?

YES thank you finally, pharmacy won't move forward if all these people in here are "scared of bodily fluids."

SUCK IT UP people you're in health care. That retail counter won't always be pretty you know that right. Someone's going to walk up to you with something disgusting and need your help.

granted you won't be dealing with insanely bloody/horrific situations such as MD's, but in order for pharmacists to become more clinical oriented and patient involved they need to break down some of those barriers!

I'm fine with blood and bodily fluids, it's some other stuff I'd rather not deal with. I shadowed a DPM for a while and you definitely need a strong stomach for that. I saw of a couple cases where people came in with part of their feet rotting off, exposed bones, missing toes, necrosis, you name it. I could smell it from across the room. The DPM had to get up in there thoroughly. A lot of medical specialties have to deal with stuff like that, and often worse. It's not just "blood and bodily fluids". Don't even get me started on dentists. I'd take the grumpy customers any day.

As a doctor or a dentist, not all patients might be enthusiastic to see you because they might not be feeling well or an operation might be uncomfortable or painful. Pharmacy isn't happy land, but in many cases you'll be providing the relief. Pharmacists are more accessible to everyday people and are among the most trusted health care professionals. The pharmacy career is versatile because it is practiced in a variety of health care settings and flexible because if needed you can choose to work part-time or take a leave and still be in demand when you decide to come back. Blah blah blah

bump.

Med school is more biology

Pharmacy is more chemistry

both are hurting because of people's greed and the economy.

But who is hurting more?

Med school never even crossed my mind. I've just always wanted to be a pharmacist...*shrug* I don't see it as an either/or issue or one being an alternative to the other.

Med school never even crossed my mind. I've just always wanted to be a pharmacist...*shrug* I don't see it as an either/or issue or one being an alternative to the other.

I have to agree with your sentiment. I was never asked that specifically by anyone and would have been surprised if I was. Do med students get asked why not pharmacy? :laugh:

Other than having similar prereqs I do not see how they are considered alternatives to one another. :shrug:

I have to agree with your sentiment. I was never asked that specifically by anyone and would have been surprised if I was. Do med students get asked why not pharmacy? :laugh:

Other than having similar prereqs I do not see how they are considered alternatives to one another. :shrug:

I think it's because medical school is 4 yrs and pharmacy school is 4 yrs. The amount of debt and time needed to finish the two programs are about the same. Medicine offers more presitage and money. Pharmacy does not offer any presitage at all...especially retail pharmacy...no offense. So base on that comparsion alone it seems smarter to choose medicine. I get asked that question a million time b/c medicine is the better choice if we are talking soley money and presitage.

I have the grades and test score for med school, but I choose pharmacy b/c I really prefer no patient contact. Pharmacy is the cleanest healthcare profession and the only one I can tolerate doing. :)

I think it's because medical school is 4 yrs and pharmacy school is 4 yrs. The amount of debt and time needed to finish the two programs are about the same. Medicine offers more presitage and money. Pharmacy does not offer any presitage at all...especially retail pharmacy...no offense. So base on that comparsion alone it seems smarter to choose medicine. I get asked that question a million time b/c medicine is the better choice if we are talking soley money and presitage.

I have the grades and test score for med school, but I choose pharmacy b/c I really prefer no patient contact. Pharmacy is the cleanest healthcare profession and the only one I can tolerate doing. :)

Boy, if retail isn't enough to stroke your prestige ego I wonder what mail-order will do for you.

Boy, if retail isn't enough to stroke your prestige ego I wonder what mail-order will do for you.

I am not in this profession for prestige. If I wanted prestige I would have stay at the Ivy League dental school that I use to attend or I could have gotten into medical school (took the MCAT and did well on it). But I really don't care about prestige. Just give me a mail order job or any kind of job that allows me to work from HOME and give me 100K salary and I will be happy. :laugh:

Well, if you asked my mom she would say, "Being a physician is a very noble profession." haha. I grew up wanting to be a doctor my entire life. I went to school, declared biology as my major, did well on the MCAT and was on my way. Bodily fluids rule by the way lol. Nothing really freaks me out inside a hospital. I interned in an emergency room for 2 years - specifically the trauma center. I've seen it all and I was very intrigued by all of it. Anyway, I type too much on here..I need to learn to condense.. so why am I now trying to get into pharmacy school? I already had gray hair and stress induced gastritis multiple times by the time I was 22. I couldn't even fathom what kind of health I'd be in after 4 years of medical school and then 30-40 years of being a physician on call and stressed out to the max. I guess you could say I wasn't "feeling it" anymore. I do want to get married and raise kids/do the whole "mom" thing. I always was interested in pharmacy (I interned in one for 6 months at that same hospital) and I do like that your work hours for the most part are pretty stable on a daily basis. I could see myself raising a family as a pharmacist without going nuts about work (cliche, I know). I'm most interested in clinical pharmacy but we'll see what happens. Both are great professions and both have their pros & cons; it's ultimately up to you which you prefer. Nobody is going to ask you, "Why not medicine?" Nobody asked me when I applied to med schools, "Why not pharmacy?" I wouldn't really consider one to be an alternative to the other.

I have to agree with your sentiment. I was never asked that specifically by anyone and would have been surprised if I was. Do med students get asked why not pharmacy? :laugh:

Other than having similar prereqs I do not see how they are considered alternatives to one another. :shrug:

I personally knew that the stress levels (and corresponding divorce rate) meant that med school wasn't the route to go for me. I worked in a pharmacy at the time (as a pre-med) and decided that I liked what they did. After digging a little deeper, I decided to make the switch officially.

Another reason was that I wouldn't need an internship and residency (plus optional fellowship, etc) the way a doctor does.

But now I'm considering two years of residency any way. :rolleyes:

I think it's because medical school is 4 yrs and pharmacy school is 4 yrs. The amount of debt and time needed to finish the two programs are about the same. Medicine offers more presitage and money. Pharmacy does not offer any presitage at all...especially retail pharmacy...no offense. So base on that comparsion alone it seems smarter to choose medicine. I get asked that question a million time b/c medicine is the better choice if we are talking soley money and presitage.

I have the grades and test score for med school, but I choose pharmacy b/c I really prefer no patient contact. Pharmacy is the cleanest healthcare profession and the only one I can tolerate doing. :)

That's actually one reason that kind of bothering me a lot. When people ask me why pharmacy, I can't really say something really passionate about the field, except using the following reasons--pharmacy doesn't have to involve in patient contact, doesn't have to contact with bodily fluid, doesn't require a B.A/B.S. degree, PCAT is easier than MCAT, or no PCAT for some schools, able to practice quicker than MD, less stress than MD.....
And as we can see, many members are citing those reasons on this thread. But some reasons are no longer true--the job security, the hours, and the "doesn't require a Bachelor's degree". And when more people are turning to clinical pharmacy, a residency of 1 or 2 years post graduate will be most likely "required". Then this makes pharmacist training even closer to MD.
And we see people looking for more clinical role for pharmacist. So, why not just be a doctor?

I mean, what actually are the some reason that people actually love the field of pharmacy, instead of it being pharmacy has less this, doesn't involve that, or no patient contact ( I mean, pharmacy school actually are looking for people who are leader, good communicator,is it not true?)

What is the reason that someone who actually Love pharmacy--Oh, I like chemistry so much, and pharmacy involve a lot more chemistry than medical school. That I think is a good reason, but, when you are practicing, especially in retail, how often can you use that knowledge? And as we can see, most pharmacists are working in retail.

I don't know, all the above reasons are valid, and is actually the reasons I chose pharmacy--less stress, quicker, and the financial return....But that won't be something the adcom want to hear.

I made the switch from med to pharm. I've shadowed and worked with nearly all diff. type of physicians (anesthesiologist, orthopedic surgeon, heart surgeons, radiologists), took MCAT, etc etc. I guess one i havent seen are derms but oh well. I wasn't typically excited as I should be when I worked in the field. Near the end of my undergrad, I started to get pharm exposure and I liked it a lot more. The Pharm curriculum is stressful but the med curriculum is a lot more stressful. In Florida, I believe most of the schools (MD and DO) there is a considerable amount of difference in tuition between the pharm and med students. On top of the main reasons why I like pharmacy, many of the other small factors do come into play as people have mentioned.

I got to give it to the med students though. After four years, they have to compete for residency spots. Not everyone can do rads and derm residencies to earn 500k, work from 8-5pm, and play golf on the weekends (unless you are top of your class, great USLME/COMLEX scores, good letters, extracurric.); This is probably why those two residencies are so competitive but that’s just speculation. The majority matches into other residencies. When they get out they have to balance out time for work and family, which can be really demanding. Most specialties will require 4-5 years while the one with the minimum is 3 years (family medicine). So medical school will take up at least 7-9 years (not even counting fellowships) on top of your undergrad. People say “it’s not so bad, you get paid during residency”. You work close to 80 hours a week for an annual salary of 35,000-40000. No thanks.

Med student here. Making a few corrections/comments.


I got to give it to the med students though. After four years, they have to compete for residency spots. Not everyone can do rads and derm residencies to earn 500k, work from 8-5pm, and play golf on the weekends (unless you are top of your class, great USLME/COMLEX scores, good letters, extracurric.);
This is something to really think about going into medical school. Are you going to be happy as a doctor? or only as a cosmetic plastic surgeon ect? Because as outlined above many people can't make the cut for the really competitive specialties. Just getting a medical degree doesn't guarantee the eye popping salary + light hours that some specialties have.

his is probably why those two residencies are so competitive but that’s just speculation. Competitive residencies are some combination of good hours, money, and low number of residency spots. Which it is for each specialty is different.

Most specialties will require 4-5 years while the one with the minimum is 3 years (family medicine). Not sure if you meant to imply FM is the only three year program, but to be clear peds, internal medicine, FM and Emergency medicine (which also has 4yr programs) are all three years.

So medical school will take up at least 7-9 years (not even counting fellowships) on top of your undergrad. People say “it’s not so bad, you get paid during residency”. You work close to 80 hours a week for an annual salary of 35,000-40000. No thanks.
Resident's salary varies by location, but it's more like starting around 47-50k and on the high end in the 60k's if you're in one of the 6+ year type programs.

Work hours during residency are highly variable depending on your specialty.

I think it's because medical school is 4 yrs and pharmacy school is 4 yrs. The amount of debt and time needed to finish the two programs are about the same. Medicine offers more presitage and money.

The big difference I see in the training is that pharmacists can go straight to a job after school and we have to do residency. It evens out later $$$ wise, but short term it does kind of suck.

Med student here. Making a few corrections/comments.

This is something to really think about going into medical school. Are you going to be happy as a doctor? or only as a cosmetic plastic surgeon ect? Because as outlined above many people can't make the cut for the really competitive specialties. Just getting a medical degree doesn't guarantee the eye popping salary + light hours that some specialties have.

Exactly the point I was making. The majority of physicians will match into the other residencies and won't have that lifestyle. I'm sure med students who come under the false pretenses of those ambitions will be surprised. Also, It's even harder for other med school programs (such as DO and CariMDs) to match into allopathic residencies. However, im not saying they don't match into them as long as they make the grade but there is still a degree of discrimination towards them. A majority of that group do become primacy care physicians though. Ironically, the radiologist and orthopedic surgeon i worked with were both DOs.



Not sure if you meant to imply FM is the only three year program, but to be clear peds, internal medicine, FM and Emergency medicine (which also has 4yr programs) are all three years.

Yeah, I'm aware of other three year residencies and mentioned family med as one of them. Thanks for mentioning the others and clarifying though.

Resident's salary varies by location, but it's more like starting around 47-50k and on the high end in the 60k's if you're in one of the 6+ year type programs.

That's a good point about differences in locations because of the varying standards of living. Also, i want to add that resident salaries do not vary by their specialty. The salaries will only vary by institution, state, and year (PG1, 2, etc)

DrYoda and Rubisco both have really valid points. It's becoming increasingly competitve to match in regards to specific residencies. I can't say this with 100% confidence, but I would say DOs have a better a chance at matching than CaribMDs (I would believe there's a very slight degree of discrimination as well) ..regardless, it's just generally becoming really difficult to be placed where you may have originally wanted. People come in thinking they'll be a cardiologist, dermatologist, anesthesiologist or any other physician that may fall in the "glamorous" category, but it's definitely not the case and you may be disappointed when you realize you can't be what you always dreamed of. You really have to really think about why you wish to be a doctor and would you still be okay with the lifestyle that goes along with the other specialities. Residency salaries all differ based on several factors,but you have to be aware that your fancy 6 figure salary won't be coming for a few years after you receive your degree..and depending on your specialty it could take longer than just a few years which also has to be taken into consideration if you plan on raising a family and what not.


slightly off topic, but emergency medicine has 3-4 year programs? I had decided to go for internal medicine when I was still on the med route. EM is awesome and shorter than what I believed it was. Pretty sweet! :thumbup:

DrYoda and Rubisco both have really valid points. It's becoming increasingly competitve to match in regards to specific residencies. I can't say this with 100% confidence, but I would say DOs have a better a chance at matching than CaribMDs (I would believe there's a very slight degree of discrimination as well)

I believe it is true for DO matching better than carib's because CaribMDs are considered international students while DOs are still considered US medical graduates. When competing for US programs, they will take their own before considering international students. When considering the growing number of students and residency programs not opening more seats, you can already see the increasing disadvantage to international students. I always want to add in the disclaimer and say that there are plenty of caribMD graduates who get into competitive US residencies. But if both students have the same stats and profile, i would give my odds to the american graduate. Some students from the carib match and some don't. Those that dont have to reapply for the programs for following years and it can be a waste of time. But if you're considering med school, Carib should be your last ditch choice. If you have to choose from the carib, choose the big 4 (SGU, Ross, AUC, SABA).

In my opinion, any physician regardless of schooling can be a good one if the individual motivation is there. Wouldnt matter if they are MD, DO, or whatever. But there's always some realistic things to consider. This whole dynamic with MD, DO, and caribMD is a whole different story that's not found in pharmacy either. Not all med students who want to do medicine get into a US MD school. With pharmacy, residency is just an option you can choose to do without all these outside factors.

Pharmacists are team players; they counsel the healthcare team on medications and dosages as well as the patient. Pharmacists involve the patient with their own healthcare moreso than a physician would. Pharmacists are sources of guidance and encouragement and they promote relationship building with patients so that healthcare will focus preventitive measures in addition to treating the sick and providing medications. Physicians are the captains of the healthcare team and they are well versed in diagnosing the patient and performing more intimate procedures to make them well; but even docotrs need the advice of pharmacists when it comes to medication therapy, which is a critical part of treating the patient.

I really hope that when people think of pharmacy, that they will focus on principles instead of money. Sure, I also think the MCAT is harder than the PCAT, but that's because they are testing different skills (physics and more emphasis on reading comprehension). The real difference between pharmacy and medical school is the nature of the work and the principles you follow when you perform that work. Both are accountable for the patient's life in different ways. Hopefully, that's what we will learn in school.

My parents told me to be a doctor because they knew I could do it. I told them NO because I want to use interpersonal skills to most effectively help, care for, and treat patients. To me, the more people that are involved, the more effective the healthcare process is. I want to advocate more time with the patient, and I feel that Pharmacy will let me do that; pharmacy will let me connect the patient with other providers and at the same time, I will be able to provide specialized services that no other healthcare professional can. One thing is for sure: I DO NOT want to work in a retail pharmacy because business will dictate your attitude towards work; people will become numbers and it will be hard to stop thinking efficiency with real individuals.

For the people who are still unsure, take some time to look into the different healthcare professions. There is a reason why so many are available for us to pursue. To make healthcare better, we should pick the right one for the right reasons. I'm just saying...:xf:

My parents told me to be a doctor because they knew I could do it. 1. I told them NO because I want to use interpersonal skills to most effectively help, care for, and treat patients. To me, the more people that are involved, the more effective the healthcare process is. 2. I want to advocate more time with the patient, and I feel that Pharmacy will let me do that; pharmacy will let me connect the patient with other providers and at the same time, I will be able to provide specialized services that no other healthcare professional can. One thing is for sure: I DO NOT want to work in a retail pharmacy because business will dictate your attitude towards work; people will become numbers and it will be hard to stop thinking efficiency with real individuals.


1. MD's can do that. In fact I am sure most of them would sat that they do that...

2. I have not witnessed a scenario in which the pharmacist would spend more time with a patient than their doctor does, but I would be happy to be proved wrong. I love pharmacy, don't get me wrong, but I haven't witnessed what you are describing. Connecting with other providers, specialized services, etc are all things MD's can do. What about pharmacy drew you to it specifically?

1. MD's can do that. In fact I am sure most of them would sat that they do that...

2. I have not witnessed a scenario in which the pharmacist would spend more time with a patient than their doctor does, but I would be happy to be proved wrong. I love pharmacy, don't get me wrong, but I haven't witnessed what you are describing. Connecting with other providers, specialized services, etc are all things MD's can do. What about pharmacy drew you to it specifically?

For me, the pharmacist's biggest strengths now include empowering the patient and giving them a little ownership of the healthcare process. For me and many others I know, the doctor tends to assume full authority when he sees the patient. I know not all doctors are this way, but on a larger scale, I feel that patients are less likely to fully open up to the doctor. When they have problems after they leave the physician's office, the easiest provider to turn to is the pharmacist. They are found everywhere and are easier to access. Pharmacists are people that patients trust with their health, but they also feel more involved when doing so. For example, a pharmacist can't just dispense medication; they have to educate the patient on how to use it, why they should even bother keep up with their regimens, and at the same time, they support the patient's opinion. The pharmacist's job is to get to know the patient's lifestyle, preferences and goals for treatment, and to try and blend these together with effective medication therapy and the doctor's orders. Because the physician has the ultimate say in how the patient should be treated, I feel like the patient feels disconnected with the whole treatment process. Again, I know that not all physicians strip patient's of their involvement, but that is my experience. What separates the doctor's duties from that of a pharmacist is the education and encouragement a pharmacist provides. The doctor may not have time to sit down with a patient to tell him every aspect of the therapy, but they assume full responsibility of the patient's well-being during it. The pharmacist can assist in the clinical setting or they can meet the patient at the end where medications are involved and help clear things up. This post-physician part of the treatment is where patients have a chance to speak, ask questions, and even provide feedback. Without this participation, patients might not continue taking the medications prescribed; they may not be happy with the doctor's orders; they may feel like they only have to see another healthcare provider when they are sick. Healthcare should be about proactively seeking good health, taking measures to prevent sickness. And the pharmacist can change that skewed view of healthcare; they not only respect the patient and their opinions/concerns, but they value them as individuals and show this. Without the pharmacist, people would only see healthcare providers when they are sick or dying. Many people are reluctant to go to a physician when they have small concerns, but the see the pharmacist as someone wiling to help no matter what. People trust pharmacists because they are open, and I hope to see the patient population become more responsible in healing themselves. I see pharmacy as a profession that will let me educate and empower these people, as well as colleagues on the healthcare team. I can't imagine effective healthcare without the pharmacist!

For me, the pharmacist's biggest strengths now include empowering the patient and giving them a little ownership of the healthcare process. For me and many others I know, the doctor tends to assume full authority when he sees the patient. I know not all doctors are this way, but on a larger scale, I feel that patients are less likely to fully open up to the doctor. When they have problems after they leave the physician's office, the easiest provider to turn to is the pharmacist. They are found everywhere and are easier to access. Pharmacists are people that patients trust with their health, but they also feel more involved when doing so. For example, a pharmacist can't just dispense medication; they have to educate the patient on how to use it, why they should even bother keep up with their regimens, and at the same time, they support the patient's opinion. The pharmacist's job is to get to know the patient's lifestyle, preferences and goals for treatment, and to try and blend these together with effective medication therapy and the doctor's orders. Because the physician has the ultimate say in how the patient should be treated, I feel like the patient feels disconnected with the whole treatment process. Again, I know that not all physicians strip patient's of their involvement, but that is my experience. What separates the doctor's duties from that of a pharmacist is the education and encouragement a pharmacist provides. The doctor may not have time to sit down with a patient to tell him every aspect of the therapy, but they assume full responsibility of the patient's well-being during it. The pharmacist can assist in the clinical setting or they can meet the patient at the end where medications are involved and help clear things up. This post-physician part of the treatment is where patients have a chance to speak, ask questions, and even provide feedback. Without this participation, patients might not continue taking the medications prescribed; they may not be happy with the doctor's orders; they may feel like they only have to see another healthcare provider when they are sick. Healthcare should be about proactively seeking good health, taking measures to prevent sickness. And the pharmacist can change that skewed view of healthcare; they not only respect the patient and their opinions/concerns, but they value them as individuals and show this. Without the pharmacist, people would only see healthcare providers when they are sick or dying. Many people are reluctant to go to a physician when they have small concerns, but the see the pharmacist as someone wiling to help no matter what. People trust pharmacists because they are open, and I hope to see the patient population become more responsible in healing themselves. I see pharmacy as a profession that will let me educate and empower these people, as well as colleagues on the healthcare team. I can't imagine effective healthcare without the pharmacist!

Just a tip; break up your posts into smaller sections by adding empty lines every so often. Reading a wall of text is not fun.

Good post. I hope you find pharmacy as reward as you describe it. I really believe that the educating patients thing happens more in retail than in hospital, but I guess it doesn't have to be that way, and maybe in some settings it already does happen more than in retail.

Anyway Good Luck to you!

Just a tip; break up your posts into smaller sections by adding empty lines every so often. Reading a wall of text is not fun.

Good post. I hope you find pharmacy as reward as you describe it. I really believe that the educating patients thing happens more in retail than in hospital, but I guess it doesn't have to be that way, and maybe in some settings it already does happen more than in retail.

Anyway Good Luck to you!

Yea.. I just realized also. I am new to this, so the tips are much appreciated. And I do believe that retail gives the best opportunity to educate; but it doesn't happen that way! Store operations and business will eventually take over and turn people into numbers. It is very hard to not think efficiency while being supervised by management that does.

I understand that providers sometimes have to yield to business models, but I really hope to increase the healthcare aspect of retail pharmacy someday. It is an integral part of the profession. MTM services are one of those first steps to extending pharmacy services to the community, right? I love this idea because it offers so much more time with the patient. But I don't see it being implemented. How can we add the same value to patients in the retail pharmacy as they have in a clinical setting? What are your thoughts on this owlegrad?

Yea.. I just realized also. I am new to this, so the tips are much appreciated. And I do believe that retail gives the best opportunity to educate; but it doesn't happen that way! Store operations and business will eventually take over and turn people into numbers. It is very hard to not think efficiency while being supervised by management that does.

I understand that providers sometimes have to yield to business models, but I really hope to increase the healthcare aspect of retail pharmacy someday. It is an integral part of the profession. MTM services are one of those first steps to extending pharmacy services to the community, right? I love this idea because it offers so much more time with the patient. But I don't see it being implemented. How can we add the same value to patients in the retail pharmacy as they have in a clinical setting? What are your thoughts on this owlegrad?

I think you are pretty much right on track. If educating patients is a priority you will make it happen. It is up to the pharmacist to make it happen. One problem is if you work for a chain, patient education is not a metric you will be graded on and you have so much other work that it quickly falls by the wayside, except for when it is so important that to ignore that duty would be considered negligent. Thankfully the computer will tell you when this is the case. ;)

A second problem is that many people see talking to the pharmacist as an annoyance in the medication getting process. I don't want to exaggerate this (some people do want to be educated on their medication), but I can assure you nothing takes the wind out of my sails faster than trying to explain something to someone only to have them ignore me, look at their watch, etc. I can see me very quickly giving up on trying to educate people, except when they request it. Less than optimal I agree, but have you ever tried to force someone to learn something? It was a real eye opener to me how little some (most?) people care about their medication. Again I don't want to exaggerate but yikes!

I do hope that I never get to the point where I consider answering a question or other interaction with a patient to be an annoyance.

MTM...I have only heard about this on SDN. I have not heard about it in school, in the pharmacies I have worked at, or from any of the pharmacists I have worked with. If it is the future of pharmacy services, we still have a long way to go. I would love to see a successful model for this service and I would love to see it in practise. I can't really comment on something I have no experience with.

I think you are pretty much right on track. If educating patients is a priority you will make it happen. It is up to the pharmacist to make it happen. One problem is if you work for a chain, patient education is not a metric you will be graded on and you have so much other work that it quickly falls by the wayside, except for when it is so important that to ignore that duty would be considered negligent. Thankfully the computer will tell you when this is the case. ;)

A second problem is that many people see talking to the pharmacist as an annoyance in the medication getting process. I don't want to exaggerate this (some people do want to be educated on their medication), but I can assure you nothing takes the wind out of my sails faster than trying to explain something to someone only to have them ignore me, look at their watch, etc. I can see me very quickly giving up on trying to educate people, except when they request it. Less than optimal I agree, but have you ever tried to force someone to learn something? It was a real eye opener to me how little some (most?) people care about their medication. Again I don't want to exaggerate but yikes!

I do hope that I never get to the point where I consider answering a question or other interaction with a patient to be an annoyance.

MTM...I have only heard about this on SDN. I have not heard about it in school, in the pharmacies I have worked at, or from any of the pharmacists I have worked with. If it is the future of pharmacy services, we still have a long way to go. I would love to see a successful model for this service and I would love to see it in practise. I can't really comment on something I have no experience with.

How right you are, and that's where I see flaws in the profession. Especially now in this economy, businesses need to reanalyze their mission statements. Many companies have changed from driving profits to being excellent, building trust with their customers, and taking accountability for those that aren't. I think that chains would benefit so much if they were graded on how well patients are taken care of in the sense that they felt educated, involved, and cared for.

Then again, I totally see people focusing on efficiency when they visit a provider. They lead busy lives as well, but that just means we can't force them to help themselves. We can only provide the environment for them to take that responsibility and initiative. In doing this, we essentially are doing all we can. Motivation doesn't come from the healthcare provider, it comes from inside the patient (only after becoming educated and involved). I would probably become disillusioned as well, but that means we need more successfull pharmacy managers to remind us of our values and mission to serve and care for others.

I read in an article somewhere, some time ago that MTM is in the working stages in reaching the community. Some of the criteria that I remember:

1. There needs to be a group of MTM-proficient, mobile pharmacists that can provide consultation services in all sorts of different settings.

2. They need an action plan that coordinates with the business model, which I'm assuming means makes some kind of profit (*sigh).

3. There has to be higher emphasis on promoting these services and educating the public about the importance and availability.

4. There's more, but can't remember.

I think that's what it was, but I read the article a while back, so don't quote me. But, I do think that accomplishing the above would be the first step in revolutionizing pharmacy and would set a great example for other healthcare professions to evolve just the same. I'm almost certain that our generation will see the most changes in healthcare, and hopefully for the better. :xf:

If you don't mind me asking, where are you going to school owlegrad? :)

I'm almost certain that our generation will see the most changes in healthcare, and hopefully for the better. :xf:

If you don't mind me asking, where are you going to school owlegrad? :)

Univ. of Florida. I am optomistic about the future of healthcare as well.

Then again, I totally see people focusing on efficiency when they visit a provider.

When I first started as an intern I was afraid that patients would ask allot of questions that I wouldn't know the answer to. I might as well have been afraid of meeting Martians. The most clinical question I was ever asked was "Is this my water pill?". I knew that one, so yippee!

There were some OTC questions that I wasn't sure about, but nothing about prescriptions. :laugh:

Because this is how the coin fell.

When did you first decide Pharm school everyone?

Because this is how the coin fell.

I love it!

delete.

Coming out of high school, like some people, having no idea what I was going to do. After getting my stuff together and actually thinking of what was in my potential, I came to the realization that I would do very well in any health care school. I think I would have been able to get into medical school just fine but a few things of pharmacy just attracted to me more.

I loved the fact that only a month after turning 25 I would be graduating with my PharmD. I want to enjoy my life because I've seen how miserable a person can be after decades of not doing much except work (of course, that varies per person). Less requirements, less pay but enough to live very comfortable, better hours than MD's, less residency, if any, and less patient interaction (well in clinical there is barely any but in retail there is quite a lot, I like to think less than doctors though. Regardless of how much less, any less interaction with stupidity helps my heart stay withing normal pressure) are all pluses for me.

The main thing I do not like is the whether people here like to admit it or not, pharmacy is viewed as less respectable than any career at medical school. And it shouldn't, because it does have less requirements. But as long as my parents are very proud of me becoming a pharmacist, I shouldn't care about any other person's opinion.

Pharmacists are just more fun to be around! :D Seriously though, I've met some very interesting pharmacists, and there seem to be fewer pharmacists than medical doctors with a chip on their shoulder.

But why pharmacy over medicine? I don't really ever want to have to feel somebody's colon with my fingers. That, and diagnosis doesn't really interest me.

Well, can't be a physician, prostate exams are a dealbreaker.
Can't be a dentist, for the same reason, I don't like hurting people.
Can't be a chiropractor, I needed too many cereal box tops.
I liked taking pills, so pharmacy seemed the way to go.

Also, Duh, Winning. As an MD you would diagnose things, that struck me as neat, in a Sherlock Holmes sort of way. I wanted to WIN, so Infectious Disease pharmacy, where your goal is the COMPLETE ANNIHILATION OF A SPECIES (of pathogenic bacteria in the infected patient). That sounded way cooler.