This thread is to discuss issues of women during the childbearing years. As women tend to get married at a later age then at early times in history, when to have children, especially for professional women, tends to be a hot topic.

So what is your feel on the situation? When did you have your kids (or when do you think you'll have), and when do you think is the best time? We all no there isn't a "best" time but this could create some great discussion!

I had mine after I finished my BA but before starting medical school. I took five years off in between to have my two daughters.

I didn't plan it this way. I always thought I wanted medicine, but wanted kids more, and at the time didn't think I could do both and still be the kind of parent I wanted to be. My parenting ideals have changed since I've had kids and I don't think I have to be a stay-at-home mom anymore to be the best parent for my daughters.

In retrospect this worked out really well for me. Breastfeeding is very, very important to me - so this way I was able to nurse both my daughters for as long as they wanted (my older daughter self-weaned and my little one is still nursing). This would have been insanely difficult if I had an infant during medical school, residency, or afterwards. I feel less and less like I need to be here a lot as they get older. I think they will enjoy preschool next year and we'll all be able to reconnect at the end of the day.

I think it is different for everyone and depends a lot on what is important to you as a parent - but this is great for me and my family. I don't think I could have planned it better if I had tried (and I didn't plan this! LOL)

We had our first child 7 years after we graduated (same year - me in pharmacy & my husband in dentistry)....but - not intentionally. Our first pregnancy resulted in a miscarriage. THAT makes you reevaluate your priorities.

I once asked this of an OB-GYN I worked with - he had 7 kids himself...he told me there is no good time, but when the situation is here & now...it is the right time.

I took off work 6 months for each & worked full time until the first went to kindergarten. People think I'm funny - but that was when I felt I needed to be there more (my husband owned his own practice by that time..so he wasn't an option). So....I went part-time when they went to school.

I'd do it the same...my daughter is an MSII & my son is still in undergrad.

I'm debating on having at least one before I enter med school but I guess its an individualized thing. I figure if they are young while i'm in classes its easier than rotations. I feel selfish that I want time with my husband since we're still newlyweds but I do want to have children and have the time to care for them. My husband claims that isn't selfish b/c I'm thinking of the childs well being first. We don't have anyone around us to watch the child for us (like relatives) so that is MORE money to have to pay someone to watch for us. And we are both busy as well (he's entering residency and I'm applying to med school).

one of the girls in my class (i'm msII) just had a baby. it was unplanned, though she is married. i think she's insane (and no one has seen her around since then...i hope she doesn't drop out). have your kids before med school or afterwards. during med school or residency is just torturing yourself. you can't enjoy the kids or learning.

one of the girls in my class (i'm msII) just had a baby. it was unplanned, though she is married. i think she's insane (and no one has seen her around since then...i hope she doesn't drop out). have your kids before med school or afterwards. during med school or residency is just torturing yourself. you can't enjoy the kids or learning.

Thanks for posting here! But I'm afraid waiting isn't an option: I'm about to start med school at 29; you do the math!

Do you mind saying (or pm'ing me) what school you attend? Every place I've interviewed I've tried asking the female students how helpful the administration is in situations like this; at some nobody really knew, but at others I talked with students who have had much better outcomes than you describe. I'm trying to gather as much experience as possible. So everybody post!

Quite a few women in my class or the class above mine had babies in 2nd or 3rd year. It's really not that big of a deal, particularly if you have a supportive partner and/or family nearby. One of them chose to take a year off and graduated with the next class, one did research that year. Two graduated with their class, on time (and one of these actually had a baby in 1st year and ANOTHER in 3rd!).

There is never a good time. I know it's easy for 22 year olds to criticize the idea of having babies in medical school or residency, but for those of us with a bit more, er, "experience" under our belts, it's not necessarily wise to put it off.

I have four. I had my first when I was eighteen and then the other three were during my undergraduate years. My third had to come to take my finals with me. My husband and I had planned him, but he came early on the last day of classes. So, we went back a week later and took finals together. My fourth was born a week before classes started, so I missed the first week of classes. That semester I was able to arrange all my classes in the evening. I stayed home with the kids during the day and went to school at night. There is no "right" time. You just somehow find out how to work your life around them. If you don't have children, it is hard to comprehend how you will manage, but once they are here you find the strength and perseverance to carry on with your life and succeed. I still hope to have more someday. Good luck!

I want them pretty soon after marriage - which as of right now, isn't any time soon (unfortunately). I can't wait to have children! However, I'm going to do my best to finish med school first... just don't want to be ThAT stressed if I don't have to be! ;)

So for those students who had kids in medicial school (or if you have young children while attending medical school) how do you do it? Do you have relatives around that help you out? Or just pay for childcare yourself? Most likely I will need someone to babysit and its an interesting perspective that with dropping off at a babysitters you can't drop of the child if its sick but if you have a babysitter come to your house, you don't have to worry about that (but you do have to worry about your sick kiddo! :( ).

I guess that I know it can be done during school but I suppose I wonder how feasible it is. I know alot depends on where you live (cost wise) and what your spouse does because obviously if your spouse has a flexible position it makes things alot easier!

So for those students who had kids in medicial school (or if you have young children while attending medical school) how do you do it? Do you have relatives around that help you out? Or just pay for childcare yourself? Most likely I will need someone to babysit and its an interesting perspective that with dropping off at a babysitters you can't drop of the child if its sick but if you have a babysitter come to your house, you don't have to worry about that (but you do have to worry about your sick kiddo! :( ).

I guess that I know it can be done during school but I suppose I wonder how feasible it is. I know alot depends on where you live (cost wise) and what your spouse does because obviously if your spouse has a flexible position it makes things alot easier!

Get your mother or his mother to help.... Definitely daycare is a must. Get a good high class daycare...

Don't piss off your relatives.. you might need a baby sitter...

We have no relatives around to help with childcare. That is why I'm wondering how people did it. :)

We have no relatives around to help with childcare. That is why I'm wondering how people did it. :)

:eek:

May The Force Be With You....

My kids were 2 and 8 when I started med school. The older one was in school, then after school care when we needed it. The baby was at daycare. My husband works, so the $ for daycare wasn't as much the issue. But the first 2 years were so flexible as far as hours, the baby came with me to class several times when she wasn't able to go to daycare for some reason. We actually got her into a pre-k at a parochial school when she was 3 - it turned out to be cheaper than daycare, plus she learned more. Now, I'm a 4th year - we've got a sitter that comes after school (picks them up) until we get home. (She cleans house too - it's great!!!)

I've had several classmates have babies throughout the 4 years, but most are coming this year. The ones who had babies first year stayed behind a year, the rest have done fine... but we get 13 weeks vacation time 4th year for the interviews and such, so having a baby 3rd year doesn't screw you the way it would other places, you just finish your clerkship stuff at the beginning of fourth year and have less vacation time.

:eek:

May The Force Be With You....
Ah, it shouldn't be that bad, but I am wondering if someone relied on daycare/babysitters/nannies/au pairs, etc. I've looked into cost (to make sure we can afford it) and it doesn't look horribly out of shape (I'll just have to take out the full amount of my loans for school :( )

Ah, it shouldn't be that bad, but I am wondering if someone relied on daycare/babysitters/nannies/au pairs, etc. I've looked into cost (to make sure we can afford it) and it doesn't look horribly out of shape (I'll just have to take out the full amount of my loans for school :( )

I've been wondering myself about sick-child daycare when neither parent works flexible hours. Any hints, ladies?

By the way, thanks everybody for posting, this stuff helps.

I've been wondering myself about sick-child daycare when neither parent works flexible hours. Any hints, ladies?

I've been wondering about that as well which is why au-pair or nanny is just a good idea. I have read that certain daycares (at least per the regulation for my state) can take a maximum number of "sick" kids but nothing completely infectious. There are guidelines about this though which made me feel better. Also many people use smaller daycares where its someone just watching a handful of kids. But then that got me wondering ... waiting lists! It seems almost all daycares have them! *sigh*

Also, I have read over at MomMD where I often peruse that some of them use college kids as babysitters on certain days of the weeks although then I get paranoid and feel that I would something more stable especially since I'm guessing they would need the care from the newborn stage. Although I thought that was a great idea, especially since I live in a college town.

I've been wondering about that as well which is why au-pair or nanny is just a good idea. I have read that certain daycares (at least per the regulation for my state) can take a maximum number of "sick" kids but nothing completely infectious. There are guidelines about this though which made me feel better. Also many people use smaller daycares where its someone just watching a handful of kids. But then that got me wondering ... waiting lists! It seems almost all daycares have them! *sigh*

Also, I have read over at MomMD where I often peruse that some of them use college kids as babysitters on certain days of the weeks although then I get paranoid and feel that I would something more stable especially since I'm guessing they would need the care from the newborn stage. Although I thought that was a great idea, especially since I live in a college town.
I am not starting medical school until August, but I just completed my BA and so was in school while pregant and raising my children. I have had some family assistance, but we are probably moving so that will be gone. I also have a REALLY supportive husband. My children have always been in daycare. Daycare is REALLY expensive! It is also really hard when your kids are sick because you are stuck. I literally spent the majority of the last month at home with a sick child. But, I have four and my ten month old just started daycare in September. BTW, I will forewarn you; when your children start daycare they will be constantly sick for several months. So, definitely make sure you have someone lined up as back up for this scenario. I think daycare has been great for my children's social development because they have been able to interact with so many other children. There are a lot of pros and cons to it. You could always do the nanny thing, but I would be concerned about that to a certain extent because of all the horror stories you hear. I am the type person that would nanny cams all over! LOL! Certainly it is easier for you to have a nanny though. It definitely makes things harder, but it absolutely can be done. Well, at least I think it can. Check back with me this time next year to see how I am doing...;) :D

I'm a fourth year and I have a six month old. We were able to time things pretty well and my son was born during the first rotation of fourth year. I got nine weeks off through some schedule wrangling and I will graduate on time while still having my vacation month for interviews. I love my school!

There are four women in my class who have had children during third/fourth year, and all of us will graduate on time. Three of us use the same babysitter, she's a lady that goes to church with one of us moms. She is very understanding of our variable hours and doesn't mind taking the kids when they are sick. She is a godsend and I don't think I could have done this without such great childcare! I know a couple of residents who had children and put them in the hospital daycare and were so unhappy with it they thought about leaving their residencies. Definitely knowing your child is in a safe and attentive place makes a HUGE difference for your peace of mind.

We decided to have our first child now because we just didn't want to wait any longer. We'd been married two years, I want a lot of kids so I wanted to start relatively young, and we felt like there is never a perfect time. I think that if you want to have children and are financially able to make it work then go for it. My son is such a joy, I couldn't imagine going through fourth year without him. People think I'm insane and I get asked "How do you do it?" all the time. I just answer, you do what you have to do. Coming home to my little boy makes the hard work worth it!

So for those students who had kids in medicial school (or if you have young children while attending medical school) how do you do it? Do you have relatives around that help you out? Or just pay for childcare yourself? Most likely I will need someone to babysit and its an interesting perspective that with dropping off at a babysitters you can't drop of the child if its sick but if you have a babysitter come to your house, you don't have to worry about that (but you do have to worry about your sick kiddo! :( ).

I guess that I know it can be done during school but I suppose I wonder how feasible it is. I know alot depends on where you live (cost wise) and what your spouse does because obviously if your spouse has a flexible position it makes things alot easier!
I haven't started yet but here's my plan.

Mine will be 2 and almost 4 when I start medical school in the Fall. The first year, both will be in daycare full time (to the tune of $15k per year - OUCH!!). My husband has a fairly flexible job and doesn't "need" to start working until 1pm each day. He prefers to start work as early as possible in the day, though. So, I'll get to school at 8am and he'll drop the kids off at daycare as soon as they are awake and fed breakfast. (probably around 9-10am, hehe). I'll pick them up after class (anywhere from 5-6 pm).

If they are sick, this is where my husband's flexible hours are REALLY going to come in handy. He can be with them until 1pm - at that point either I will take over (if class that day will allow it) or we'll call grandma to take over. My husband's parents are local and retired. They can drive me nuts sometimes, but I am going to stay on their good side because I know they are going to vital!!

Third year is going to be interesting - I'll be gone for 18 weeks on the other end of the state for ob/gyn and surgery rotations. This is when I'm sure we will be relying VERY heavily on my husband's parents to help.

If we didn't have any family locally I think the only choice would be a nanny or au pair. This is more expensive, though and I would also want to have nanny cams around the house!!

Oh and paying for child care - student loans. ;) I've read in several places that you can get your financial aid increased by showing the need for child care while you are a student.

I guess that I know it can be done during school but I suppose I wonder how feasible it is. I know alot depends on where you live (cost wise) and what your spouse does because obviously if your spouse has a flexible position it makes things alot easier!

my husband and i are both MSII's (he's 31 and i'm 25) and we're planning to have our first child late next year. how are we going to do it? we are fortunate to have family in town to help us out... being a two-med student couple, i don't think we would even consider having a baby until after residency w/o family nearby... it's a tough call. ideally i want to complete my first clerkship then take the 2nd one off to be with the baby. we'd prefer to have a somewhat older child (one year old versus newborn) when venturing off for residency - if we don't stay where we are then it would be easier to find childcare for someone a little older. we don't really *want* to stay where we are now for residency, but having family here makes it difficult to leave.

a female classmate of mine had a baby one month ago and a male classmate's wife delivered a few weeks ago... we talked to my husband's parents about when a good time to have kids would be, and his father (an orthopedist) said very candidly that we need to have kids whenever we want to, because everything will work itself out - despite a plan for when they wanted kids during med school/residency, all 3children came unexpectedly, and they are a wonderful family.

everyone's situation is unique but i hope you find a way to make it work... is there in-hospital child care where you live? child care centers that are home-based?

Every woman has different needs i suppose. I always thought i'd be the first of my 2 sisters to have kids, but hey ho - I have 2 nieces and 3 nephews and i am still childless! It all depends on your career, if you have a stable relationship and money!! I had an ovary removed in July after a long suffering illness, and now my chances are halved, so I guess my career will be on hold as soon as i meet the right person. I have just ended a 3 year relationship having found out that he didn't want the same things in life as me, so i will hang fire until I meet someone who does wish for the same, but nonetheless age has no meaning in pregnancy these days. I just hope i'm not 60 by the time i have my first!!:laugh:

Linda

This thread is to discuss issues of women during the childbearing years. As women tend to get married at a later age then at early times in history, when to have children, especially for professional women, tends to be a hot topic.

So what is your feel on the situation? When did you have your kids (or when do you think you'll have), and when do you think is the best time? We all no there isn't a "best" time but this could create some great discussion!
I'm a 30 year old MS1. I think I'll have to wait till residency. I can't imagine trying to combine school and a kid, my SO doesn't have that flexible a job, the closest family is 2 hours away.

For the first year and a half I have to pass all my units, and for the third and fourth years I have to do very well in my rotations. Once I get into a residency, I'll be assured the future I want and can then reshuffle for a baby. (In Quebec we get a year off per baby). I wouldn't have two in residency though - that would be unfair to my program! I'm thinking one during residency, assuming I do a five-year residency like Emerg or Internal (they are both 5 years in Canada, before y'all correct me) or maybe if I do Family (2 years here) I will wait till after residency.

Either way, I'll be in my mid-thirties when I start trying. Thank goodness I have high energy levels.

I have two daughters ages 2 and 4. I'm not in med school yet, but I work full time. I just wanted to add that a home daycare can be an affordable alternative and can help to drastically minimize sick days.

The home daycare my girls go to costs about $300 less ($150 per child) a month than what I paid for a daycare center.

Also, when my girls were in a daycare center, they were sick ALL THE TIME! I was at the doctor's office every 2 weeks!!! I missed 14 days of work, which is a lot considering that I work as a school counselor (I have a lot of time off (summer, spring break, winter break, etc.).

Since being in the home daycare (August of this year) NEITHER of my little angels has been sick!!!!! This is a miracle for me. :)

I like the home daycare because it is like they are staying home with a "mom/grandma." My girls love the lady who watches them. She is like a family member to them.

Some home daycares are licensed and advertise, others are more like "babysitting" and are found via word of mouth. Some states require all home daycares to be licensed, others do not require licensure if a small number of children (less than 5 for example) are in the home. Licensure can drive up the price of the in-home daycare.

Good luck! Working or going to school with kids is tough! I think having kids forces you to manage your time more efficiently. I am not used to having any "down" time now that I am a mom.

Also, I love coming home from a rough day to see the smiling faces of my beautiful little girls!!! They fill me with such joy that I think anything is possible!!!!

:luck:

I'm an MSII shooting for early fourth year for my first. I'm only 22 now, but I'm just not willing to wait 5-7 more years for a baby-- I may want 5! ;) My husband has a pretty good job, and I have family nearby. The second one will be a little trickier-- it really depends on whether or not I decide to take a year off between med schol & residency, and where I match. What I've always heard from every female physician I've ever met is that there is never a good time to have a baby in this career... med school, residency, your first "real job"... they all present their own unique challenges, and they're all surmountable.

Research years.

Do any of you have a nanny? I live in a moderately sized town, and would like to have one, but only a trustworthy one. My husband leaves for work at 6:15, and I plan on getting to the college early to get study time in. That means we need someone to help the kids get off to school and be here when they get home. It is a scary notion to get someone new to come into my home, but I know it will be necessary! All the babysitters we've had in the past live outside our school district, or have since filled up again since my children are all in school now. Ugh. It is so worrisome to me. Any ideas???

Ok, we currently have a 2 year old and a 4 year old. I am also 8 weeks pregnant, and started school again last week. (I'm in my last 30 undergrad hours now, but will graduate after next spring - taking it slow) I am feeling soo horrible with this pregnancy, I don't know how I'm going to do well in my classes! I didn't feel this bad with previous pregnancies, but you can never tell! I would be seriously concerned if I were in med school right now, because it takes everything I have just to get myself out of bed and to class the last week, I don't know how I'd do it in med school!

That is why we put off my application another year. I wanted to have time with the baby before having someone else watch him/her full time.

We currently have a nanny while I am in class, my husband runs his company from our house, so he is somewhat flexible, but needs to be working most of the day. It is expensive though, so we're looking into an AuPair when I start med school! I am very lucky that my husband can support all of this, and is here to watch over the nanny so I don't have to worry about her! Oh, and we have no family close either, so for for now if the nanny calls in, we're out of luck and need to work something out between the two of us.

My situation is a little different and I would appreciate any feedback you can give.

I'm starting medical school this year and my wife and I are in our early 30's. We're looking to start a family, but we're not sure when the best time to start is. I want to fulfill my share of the responsibilities of course and be able to do well in school at the same time.

She has a very good job, salary and flexibility-wise, but she might end up working from home (with the same company) when we move so that I can attend med school. I don't want the house to become an environment of stress for her, even though after 9 1/2 years of marriage we both understand sacrifices must be made.

So far, some doctors told us to start having a family right now. Some medical students have told us to wait until after I'm done with year 2.

Please give me your thoughts on this :)

Thanks

EDIT: I did a forum search for kids and medical school and came up with this thread. I apologize for posting in here as I now realize it was in the "Women in Healthcare" sub-forum.

My situation is a little different and I would appreciate any feedback you can give.

EDIT: I did a forum search for kids and medical school and came up with this thread. I apologize for posting in here as I now realize it was in the "Women in Healthcare" sub-forum.

It's not a problem - we tolerate guys here too! :D To share my opinion... I started med school with my kids 2 and 7. First year was heavy on hours in the lab, but most of the rest can be done with tons of reading time. Second year was easier hour wise than first year was, plus you now have the hang of it and can relax a bit (the second years just look tired before their exams, where as the first years can look frazzled and like they are gonna have PTSD from the whole experience). Third year is the busiest by far, and 4th year is great! If you are looking at timewise - having one first year isn't bad since you as the husband don't have the risks of bedrest, etc that would possibly affect you getting to class for a while. You'll be able to go for the delivery and such, I can't imagine a professor quibbling over that. Then you get all that fun time before 3rd year when you won't have near the time to be home. If you are looking for a 2nd kid in there - delivering at the beginning of 4th year is good because you get a really flexible schedule so you can spend a lot of time at home. It's a bummer to travel as much as you do for interviews, but thats really geographically and specialty dependent.
Good luck on starting your family and your career in medicine.

I'm an M1 with a 18 month old and a 3 1/2 year old. We don't have any family in town to watch our kids and so my kids are in daycare full time.
There was a month that my kids were sick pretty much all month and so I had a difficult time keeping up with school during that month.
My hubby and kids go to his parent's house the weekend before an exam (they live about an hour away). This works pretty well for me, but I do think my kids are missing out some. My daughter likes to spend time with her Nana, but she has been resisting lately cuz I'm not going with them. If I ever try to study at home, the kids have to stay quiet or out of the room that I'm in. That doesn't work very well, so in general, on Saturday's I end up going to the school to study. My daughter doesn't like that very much either.
I'm guessing it will be worse in third year and residency. We'll see how it goes. Its a bit easier when they are babies cuz they don't really care if your there or not as long as someone is taking care of them. My daughter, however, cares very much.

I had my daughter my first year of fellowship. It was very challenging, but I have a lot of family support nearby and a very supportive husband. Like some others on this thread, breastfeeding was important to me, and we managed to make this work also. My advice would be, have children when it is right for you and your husband and don't put things off too long for training. Getting pregnant may be not be as easy as you think it will be as you get older, which is an unfortunate biological reality.

What about having a second child? I would eventually like to have another baby, but I am not sure when. How much more difficult is it to have two children vs. one? My brother tells me it wasn't as big of a life change with the second baby because he was already a parent. What are your thoughts?:confused:

What about having a second child? I would eventually like to have another baby, but I am not sure when. How much more difficult is it to have two children vs. one? My brother tells me it wasn't as big of a life change with the second baby because he was already a parent. What are your thoughts?:confused:

I thought two were exponentially harder than one. Yes, its not as big of a life change because you don't really have more responsibility i.e. before you had kids you could do whatever you want to, where having one or two doesn't really affect your ability to go out with your hubby on a Saturday night.
Maybe I should clarify that I had my second when my first was two years old. So I suppose this would be different if you had your second when your first was in school or relatively able to take care of themself.
My second pregnancy wasn't nearly as enjoyable as my first because I was pregnant while my daughter still wanted to be carried everywhere. So I got real used to towing a 35 pound child while very pregnant.
Nursing wasn't as easy the second time around because when nursing I couldn't supervise my two year old.
It wasn't as easy to catch up on sleep (after nights up with my infant) because during the day I had to take care of my two year old.
On top of this, I was dealing with a child who was having a hard time adjusting to a new baby in the family. It was not particularly fun.
Once we all got adjusted, it did get easier, but life is just so much more chaotic with more than one child in the house.

I've heard that three is exponentially worse than two.... and I'll probably have another, but I don't know when.

I thought two were exponentially harder than one. Yes, its not as big of a life change because you don't really have more responsibility i.e. before you had kids you could do whatever you want to, where having one or two doesn't really affect your ability to go out with your hubby on a Saturday night.
Maybe I should clarify that I had my second when my first was two years old. So I suppose this would be different if you had your second when your first was in school or relatively able to take care of themself.
My second pregnancy wasn't nearly as enjoyable as my first because I was pregnant while my daughter still wanted to be carried everywhere. So I got real used to towing a 35 pound child while very pregnant.
Nursing wasn't as easy the second time around because when nursing I couldn't supervise my two year old.
It wasn't as easy to catch up on sleep (after nights up with my infant) because during the day I had to take care of my two year old.
On top of this, I was dealing with a child who was having a hard time adjusting to a new baby in the family. It was not particularly fun.
Once we all got adjusted, it did get easier, but life is just so much more chaotic with more than one child in the house.

I've heard that three is exponentially worse than two.... and I'll probably have another, but I don't know when.

Thanks for the insight. The earliest I would have another baby would be when my son was 4 years old. It is hard to tell how difficult it will be, because he is only 10 months old so I have no idea if he will be a particularly precocious child or an easy going one (though my husband was a terror so I am preparing for the worst).

Thanks for the insight. The earliest I would have another baby would be when my son was 4 years old. It is hard to tell how difficult it will be, because he is only 10 months old so I have no idea if he will be a particularly precocious child or an easy going one (though my husband was a terror so I am preparing for the worst).

Well, you'd probably have it easier than I did then.
I must admit that I've been thinking about having another one too. I know I shouldn't.... and thanks to the Depo, I won't. But the yearning is there. I just love babies and my baby is no longer a baby (18 months) so I want another one.

I discussed the jump from 1 to 2 and beyond with a midwife who has 7 kids. She said the jump from 2 to 3 was the hardest transition for her... but once she "transitioned to playing zone defense from man-to-man defense, it was a lot easier". :) The thought of a third one scares me to death... I can't get beyond not having enough hands to hold each kid in the parking lot. My experiences so far probably aren't relevant to the rest of y'all (18 with the first one, who turned out to be autistic and didn't like all the changes when sister came along when he was 5).

What about having a second child? I would eventually like to have another baby, but I am not sure when. How much more difficult is it to have two children vs. one? My brother tells me it wasn't as big of a life change with the second baby because he was already a parent. What are your thoughts?:confused:

Well, I have heard somewhat different from the other ladies. I have a 2 yr old and a 4 yr old and am pregnant with #3 right now (God help me). I have two sisters that have three children each. We are all in agreement that going from 1 to 2 children is the biggest adjustment, however they have both told me that adding the third is not a big deal. I can say that we had a really hard time when #2 came around because I was not only taking care of the newborn, but I was taking care of a 2 year old, and trying to keep the 2 year old from hurting the newborn. This may have been because they were close in age, and the 2 year old was a boy, so not the most gentle that he could be at all times. I honestly think that this one will be easier because my son will be almost 5, and daughter will be almost 3. She is such a little mommy already to her dolls and our cats that I think that she will not be as much of a risk as her brother was to her. And as for my son, he is older now and understands more. He is already excited to have a new baby, and to help me take care of him/her.

Anyways, I don't know. I guess that everyone is different and you have to do what feels right for you at the time. There is no right decision, and it will be hard no matter when, but you will deal with it, and you will be happy you did it when they are older (much older - lol).

What about having a second child? I would eventually like to have another baby, but I am not sure when. How much more difficult is it to have two children vs. one? My brother tells me it wasn't as big of a life change with the second baby because he was already a parent. What are your thoughts?:confused:
When I had my first daughter, that was a huge adjustment in terms of my time just not being "mine" anymore. Her needs came before mine and it took some time to get used to that.

When I had my second daughter, I had the baby stuff all figured out. The newborn baby didn't phase me at all - the huge adjustment was in dealing with the jealous 22 month old and figuring out how to take care of the needs of both these little people at the same time.

They're 3.5 and 1.5 now and we're completely adjusted now.

I really can't say if going from 0 to 1 or 1 to 2 was harder. They are just different. Maybe for me I see those two transitions as having equal difficulty? My husband said the transition from 1 to 2 was much harder on him, though. He took over a lot with the older one while I dealt with the baby.

I really can't say if going from 0 to 1 or 1 to 2 was harder. They are just different. Maybe for me I see those two transitions as having equal difficulty? My husband said the transition from 1 to 2 was much harder on him, though. He took over a lot with the older one while I dealt with the baby.

That might have been the big difference between your experience and mine. While my hubby helped with my daughter when I was breastfeeding my son, if he wasn't latched on to me I was pretty much on my own with the two of them.

I thought we were gonna have an adjustment when med school started (concerning how much my hubby takes over the care of our kids) but it hasn't turned out that way. I'm guessing third year and definitely residency will be an eye opener. Of course, then my kids won't require as much constant attention, so maybe it won't be as much of an adjustment as I think. Right now I do substantially more concerning the kids than my hubby. I bring them to and from daycare, I feed them supper, I give them baths, I put them to bed. I pretty much have to be not present for my hubby to do these things.

Ugh, I'm so frustrated with this whole kids issue. My husband and I were planning on starting next year but now it looks like we might have to live away from each other for the first 2 years of med school wherever I decide to go. Its frustrating b/c we both want to start but we don't want to put ourselves in that situation.

I have to decide whether to put off med school a few years (REALLY, REALLY don't want to do this) or wait ...

Sorry, just venting.

Ugh, I'm so frustrated with this whole kids issue. My husband and I were planning on starting next year but now it looks like we might have to live away from each other for the first 2 years of med school wherever I decide to go. Its frustrating b/c we both want to start but we don't want to put ourselves in that situation.

I have to decide whether to put off med school a few years (REALLY, REALLY don't want to do this) or wait ...

Sorry, just venting.

Goodness, mushy, that's a rough spot to be in (even disregarding the potential kids!)

Wish I knew something helpful, but I don't have a clue. :love:

Ugh, I'm so frustrated with this whole kids issue. My husband and I were planning on starting next year but now it looks like we might have to live away from each other for the first 2 years of med school wherever I decide to go. Its frustrating b/c we both want to start but we don't want to put ourselves in that situation.

I have to decide whether to put off med school a few years (REALLY, REALLY don't want to do this) or wait ...


Wait until your interview season kicks off to start making this decision. I wouldn't put off medical school.

{mshheaddoc} :luck:

Mush - I'm 30 and we've decided that we're not going to have kids 'til after med school.

Edit: Even if I did have a baby in the "off" season, it's too much for me to ask for the unpredictability of a med school schedule. At least with residency I can pick a more family-friendly specialty if I want.

I get a lot of flack from people who need to mind their own business when it comes to that, and I tell them that too! I just read about some new test for women in their late 30s - early 40s to see how many viable eggs they have, which is probably something I'll take advantage of when the time comes down the road. And if it turns out I don't have any or it will be a hard path, we'll adopt. My husband is adopted and we are totally open to that (but we'll probably look within the US rather than Cambodia or Malawai :rolleyes:).

And I know you are younger than me so you have plenty of time. We are not our mothers or grandmothers where 40 is ancient.

I get a lot of flack from people who need to mind their own business when it comes to that, and I tell them that too! I just read about some new test for women in their late 30s - early 40s to see how many viable eggs they have, which is probably something I'll take advantage of when the time comes down the road. And if it turns out I don't have any or it will be a hard path, we'll adopt. My husband is adopted and we are totally open to that (but we'll probably look within the US rather than Cambodia or Malawai :rolleyes:).

And I know you are younger than me so you have plenty of time. We are not our mothers or grandmothers where 40 is ancient.

I think this is an incredibly personal decision with an answer that will vary for every family, but I just wanted to say that, while medical science has made tremendous advances in fertility, it is not necessarily an easy thing to get pregnant at 40, and the miscarriage rate skyrockets, not to mention birth defects and pregnancy complications. There have been so many older celebrities lately having babies that maybe it seems like an easy thing to the general public, but many of them have needed fertility treatments or used donor eggs. Again, it's a personal thing, and if it's the right choice for you, that's one thing. I just wouldn't take lightly the expense and heartache involved if you end up having trouble conceiving or miscarry. It is unlikely to be so simple as taking a test that tells you how many eggs you have left, since there are so many factors involved.

I have a personal bias in that I have dealt with infertility and miscarriage (not due to age in my case) and it really sucks. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It never occurred to me that I would have trouble getting pregnant, being that I was otherwise healthy. We deliberately put off having children during med school and didn't start trying until my intern year. In retrospect, I would have done things differently, but how could I have known? Age was actually on our side, and on the positive side, we finally had my daughter through IVF and she is absolutely amazing. Being pregnant and having a baby during fellowship was not easy, but it was doable. We are also considering adoption, which I think can be a great thing, but also involves its own challenges and expense. Again, you have to do what's right for you. You could be one of the lucky ones and never have this be a problem for you. I hope that's the case. I am just saying that for someone who starts the process at 40, the odds are against them (just check out the CDC statistics for fertility clinics). If you have the option to avoid that, your life will be easier.

One more thing - I know so many people who have had babies during residency, and some who had them during medical school. It is not necessarily easy, but it is possible. Medicine is changing - with 50% women in medical school classes, there are going to be people having babies during training, since these are the primary childbearing years. It's probably not any harder than it would be in the first couple of years of practice in many cases.

I think this is an incredibly personal decision with an answer that will vary for every family, but I just wanted to say that....

You are right - it IS a personal decision. Being this is SDN, I didn't really feel the need to delve into my complete personal life and post other concomitant reasons for postponing pregnancy. But it seems that everyone has an opinion when I make it clear that I want to wait.

I appreciate your concern, but again I have to respectfully ask to leave my decisions alone. I feel for your history of pregnancy and waiting, but I have my own history to deal with. Outside of med school, I would also like to be cancer-free for at least 10 years before I try to have kids. I'm on year 6.75 now, so I have a ways to go. There are other personal reasons, but a not-so-personal observation in my job as a pediatric speech language pathologist is that there are plenty of mothers who are in their late 30's-early 40's who have normal children (95% of my screenings are from neurotic mothers worried that their 16-month-old has problems because he's not reciting the Pledge of Allegiance yet). When I see that, it gives me hope.

I know you're trying to help, but trust me, I'm not naive to the situation.

I know you're trying to help, but trust me, I'm not naive to the situation.

Actually, I hesitated to say anything at all, because believe me, I got it from your first post that you didn't really want any opinions on this issue. I tried to make it clear that I really believe everyone has to do their own thing for their own reasons. Maybe I didn't say it well. The reason I spoke up at all is that I also think a lot of women (not necessarily you) these days are misled (by the media, by a lot of things) into thinking that the "biological clock" has somehow extended by 10-15 years, when that's not exactly true (although medical science has done a lot). A lot of the "epidemic" of infertility recently is related to delayed childbearing.

To respond to what you said about the children of late 30/early 40 year olds being normal - I didn't say they weren't normal. I said it may be harder to have them in the sense of getting pregnant, staying pregnant, and being pregnant. This is what any OB/GYN textbook will say, but obviously doesn't apply to each individual. Certainly once they have been born there is no reason to think they aren't going to be okay. But there is no denying there are problems with being of "advanced maternal age." It doesn't mean people should never do it. It's just a harder road.

It sounds like you have educated yourself about the situation and are willing to make the trade-off for your own reasons, but to blithely say, "We are not our mothers or grandmothers where 40 is ancient," is a bit glib, especially as your avatar says you are an SDN advisor. I was just trying to offer another perspective, admittedly biased by my own experiences, for the sake of the general discussion. I wasn't meaning to comment on your personal choices, which of course I respect. I am sorry if I didn't convey that. I think all of the women on here dealing with this issue should educate themselves, both about the realities of pregnancy and about the realities of medical training and practice. These are tough decisions to make with far-reaching implications, affecting many things, including specialty and practice choice.

It sounds like you have dealt with a lot of comments from people about the issue and are sick of it, which I can sympathize with (the endless questions of "when are you going to just have a baby already" are difficult for me too, for different reasons). I'm sorry if I added to that for you. It wasn't my intent.

My being an advisor has no bearing on me saying that women today are not their mothers, etc.

It's not glib, it's the truth.

When my grandmother was 30, med schools did not consist of equal opportunity admissions for women, and women really didn't have the opportunities that gave them the option to not have kids past their 30s. There are a few outliers but most were married by their early 20s and had kids soon after. My mom's generation was at the end of the stay-at-home generation, and she even went back to med school after being a nurse for 10 years (a "woman's" profession).

I agree that everyone should be educated on what it means to have children later in life. I might take it a little for granted since I probably come from a fertile family. I have aunts that were conceived when my grandmother was in her late 30's and early 40's. But once someone is educated, they're free to make their decisions on children.

Dang it, I'm supposed to be studying. I'm totally procrastinating.

Ugh, I'm so frustrated with this whole kids issue. My husband and I were planning on starting next year but now it looks like we might have to live away from each other for the first 2 years of med school wherever I decide to go. Its frustrating b/c we both want to start but we don't want to put ourselves in that situation.

I have to decide whether to put off med school a few years (REALLY, REALLY don't want to do this) or wait ...

Sorry, just venting.

Mshheaddoc - I'm sorry to hear about your difficult situation. Just my 0.02 - I saw two of my classmates lose their marriages in this fashion - their husbands either were in school in another city or were working and didn't want to give up their seniority at their current job to move for med school. They both made the choice to live apart and pursue their dream now for med school - but it cost them dearly. I waited to apply until it was the right time for my family - it was really hard to do, but I have no regrets. My maturity and strong family life gives me a balance that I don't see in a lot of my classmates. Good luck - it's a tough decision.

My being an advisor has no bearing on me saying that women today are not their mothers, etc.

It's not glib, it's the truth.

When my grandmother was 30, med schools did not consist of equal opportunity admissions for women, and women really didn't have the opportunities that gave them the option to not have kids past their 30s. There are a few outliers but most were married by their early 20s and had kids soon after. My mom's generation was at the end of the stay-at-home generation, and she even went back to med school after being a nurse for 10 years (a "woman's" profession).


Then I misinterpreted what you said and I apologize. I read "We are not our mothers or grandmothers where 40 is ancient," as a comment on biology, not sociology. Absolutely our generation is a completely different one from that of our parents in terms of what is "acceptable" for women in terms of age of parenthood. In the generations preceding ours, there were so few women in medicine at all. Many of those I know basically made a choice between being physicians and being mothers. Thankfully, we don't have to make that choice. Unfortunately, however, our ovaries haven't necessarily caught up with our other opportunities.


I agree that everyone should be educated on what it means to have children later in life. I might take it a little for granted since I probably come from a fertile family. I have aunts that were conceived when my grandmother was in her late 30's and early 40's.

I come from a fertile family, too, and never thought twice about it before. For me, age wasn't the issue anyway (I was 28 when we realized what was going on). I think dealing with that, though, has made me more aware of the age issue, especially since I have read so much about all of this stuff. For example, one study showed the rate of infertility at age 40 is about 33% compared to 7% at age 30 (and 87% by age 45!) The miscarriage rate at 40 is 30% compared to 8% for 30-34. The tests you mentioned before about looking at ovarian reserve may let you know how many eggs are left, but not necessarily how good they are, which affects pregnancy and miscarriage rates. These are statistics and obviously don't apply to any individual, etc., etc., but it's something to think about. Certainly some cases, such as yours with being cancer-free for 10 years, may trump these other concerns. For some people here, though, who maybe could go either way based on a variety of issues, this information might come into play.


But once someone is educated, they're free to make their decisions on children.

No argument there.

Thanks for the discussion everyone.

I suppose I'm apprehensive for various reasons, one of being which my mother had issues with conception as did my grandmother. Thankfully my sister didn't but she is also 4 years younger than me and already has her first.

tiredmom - thank you for that insight. Although I am not extremely worried about a divorce, I am worried about the "cohesive support structure" that my husband and I have. We have been apart the last 6 months due to his away rotations and while it sucks sometimes its a necessity. Luckily I will be within driving distance to see him every weekend if not every other weekend and the distance would allow me an "escape of distractions" so I'm trying to be positive. But with his residency we don't have much of a choice. I could wait 3 years but what if he wants to do fellowship? What should we do then? I can't wait 6 years to have children and we both do want to have children now. We better remedy this soon else we'll end up with more and more animals. :laugh: Or so one of my professors states.

Thanks for the discussion everyone.

I suppose I'm apprehensive for various reasons, one of being which my mother had issues with conception as did my grandmother. Thankfully my sister didn't but she is also 4 years younger than me and already has her first.


Just had a thought... if you do want babies sooner, is there some way you could tie in a "research year" (maybe even between MS1 and MS2...) at an away location (where your husband is!)? I'm strongly considering taking a research year myself at a biologically suitable point, since my personal see-saw is leaning progressively down toward the side of not waiting (no criticism implied or intended of women who choose differently! there are pros and cons everywhere, and I firmly believe that adoption is a good & noble thing to do). I've been told that my school has been very cooperative with women who have done so in the past.

I share your apprehensions, too, for the same reason (plus a profound regard for Murphy's Law.) :o I don't think there are any clear answers, but thank goodness for supportive spouses. :love:

Thanks for the discussion everyone.

I suppose I'm apprehensive for various reasons, one of being which my mother had issues with conception as did my grandmother. Thankfully my sister didn't but she is also 4 years younger than me and already has her first.

tiredmom - thank you for that insight. Although I am not extremely worried about a divorce, I am worried about the "cohesive support structure" that my husband and I have. We have been apart the last 6 months due to his away rotations and while it sucks sometimes its a necessity. Luckily I will be within driving distance to see him every weekend if not every other weekend and the distance would allow me an "escape of distractions" so I'm trying to be positive. But with his residency we don't have much of a choice. I could wait 3 years but what if he wants to do fellowship? What should we do then? I can't wait 6 years to have children and we both do want to have children now. We better remedy this soon else we'll end up with more and more animals. :laugh: Or so one of my professors states.


Not trying to be a downer :) ! Is he matched to a place where there isn't a med school nearby? Is there any way he could transfer to a program near where you would be? I was worried he was overseas! Both of the people I spoke of were a 5 hour drive away from their husbands - which isn't easy to do on a weekend, especially a few times a month. Is he doing IM I guess? (You said 3 yrs and maybe fellowship?). Most of the IM folks I know apply to fellowship during their 2nd year, so you'd know after a year if that's what he wants or not. It's a tough situation. I wish you tons of luck:luck: !

Not trying to be a downer :) ! Is he matched to a place where there isn't a med school nearby? Is there any way he could transfer to a program near where you would be? I was worried he was overseas! Both of the people I spoke of were a 5 hour drive away from their husbands - which isn't easy to do on a weekend, especially a few times a month. Is he doing IM I guess? (You said 3 yrs and maybe fellowship?). Most of the IM folks I know apply to fellowship during their 2nd year, so you'd know after a year if that's what he wants or not. It's a tough situation. I wish you tons of luck:luck: !

Another idea for mshheaddoc - what about the "taking turns" concept? You start med school when he finishes residency, he works as an internist for a couple of years (if that is his area) while you are in school, then he does fellowship when you finish med school? Presuming that you can't do these things in the same place, which would obviously be ideal. It would drag things out a lot, especially if you want to do a fellowship, but maybe some variation of this could work? It seems a lot to ask for you to wait until he is done with a residency _and_ a fellowship. What about looking at areas where there are a lot of med schools as options, like, say, the Chicago area just as an example? Even if you weren't at the same institution at least you would be in the same city. It's a tough situation. It's too bad you aren't closer to the same stage in your training so you could couples match.

Great discussion guys. And yes, these are options that I have considered and will consider when we get to that point of seriously discussing. (Right now we still have to sell our house and find a house in our new location - so that gets priority! ;) )

The main things we need to work out is do I want to push back medical school when I already won't be entering when I'm 29/30 and already know that I want to enter a specialty profession that will require a fellowship (so total of 6 years post grad work)?

Three options:
1) put off medical school for 3 years
2) push through the next 3 years then work on the family
3) forget medical school

Its a tough decision for us non-trads going into this and trying to plan a family. I have to say, knowing my husband and I, probably #2 is our best option. Maybe at that point I could take a year off and do some research while having our first. I'm not sure how receptive the schools I'm looking at would be to that but that is just an idea. I've already come so far and I feel that if I start to have kids now and don't continue in my path that I'll just give up my dream for my family. If we had relatives in the area I don't think it would be so bad but we're doing this on our own.

This was so much easier when we weren't moving and I was going to the school in the same town as his residency.
I guess it really is frustrating and stressful being a woman who wants to have her career and a family too. You can make all these plans and have them changed within a week. Its quite overwhelming for us.
Isn't it grand how life can change in the blink of an eye? ;) My controlling personality does NOT like this :mad:

Thanks for everyone's input. I hope this discussion can help other women in the same position as I don't want this thread just to be about me.

This topic has gone a bit awry with the personal back and forth, but to answer a previous person's question about which schools we go to etc, and are they supportive....

I go to Case in Cleveland, Ohio. I moved away from all of my family and friends and therefore had NO ONE to help me with my two children besides my husband. I came to medical school with a 2 year old and a 4 year old. They are now 5 and 7 and I will be graduating in May. I had my daughter in the summer between my second and third year of undergrad. She was 6wks old when I started back, and she came to class with me for the whole year. I was pregnant with my son when I graduated, and he was born in the middle of my post bac program. I studied from home for 1 month after he was born and he started coming with me to my post bac program for the rest of that year.

My decision to move to Ohio and go to Case was based in large part because of my family. Our lectures were taped which meant that they were optional. So if ever I had a sick child (which fortunately for me, I didn't) I could have stayed home. Also, we are only in class from 8-12 so I could study from 12-4 and still pick them up from daycare relatively early. By the time I got home, I had already studied and was free to spend the whole rest of the evening playing with them. I never had to study in the evenings at home, so I was really lucky. My husband works, but doesn't make a ton of money, and we've actually had some cash flow problems over the years, so I couldn't afford a fancy day care or a nanny. But I found a home day care that I really loved for years 1 and 2, and by year 3, my son was in preschool, and my daughter was in first grade. Afterschool care is a lot cheaper. Most days during third year, I was able to pick them up before the center closed at 6:30, and I ALWAYS talked to the clerkship coordinator well ahead of time to get my schedule, and always got my call schedule for the whole clerkship by the first day of the clerkship, if not weeks before. People are willing to give you information if you explain why you need it (I have a small child, and need to arrange for child care so that I can be there every time you guys want me to be...) and ask early. Then you can plan around it. You've got to be organized, but you can do it. Even if you're not fortunate to go to a 8-12 pass/fail school like Case, I have friends at schools that are more traditional, and some have had some difficulty, but you can still do it.

Allow me to throw in a different twist to this thread. I am a married, 26 y/o male soon-to-be med student (class of 2011). Having kids is something my wife (2+ yrs) and I have discussed, not b/c we want them now (that is just too crazy before school) but b/c so many of our friends are having them. Beginning to have a family is something we would like to do within the next few years, especially since my wife would like to have her first before 30. So, if we were to try to start a family while I'm in school, when do you think would be a good time to do this?

As a 23 y/o MS-1 to-be (class of 2011), I have just reached the point in my life when my friends tell me their pregnant and I can say congratulations instead of oh $hit. Still, I do not plan to start a family for several years, probably after my residency. My SO is totally on board with being Mr. Mom, so I feel really lucky in that respect. Even with that, I definitely worry about waiting so long to start and not being able to spend enough time with my kids. My mother took several years off of teaching to stay at home with me and my two siblings (not really something you can do as a doctor). I hope that I can make up for in quality what I don't give them in quantity of time.

As far as waiting until my mid-thirties, I guess I will just cross my fingers and hope for the best. My 37 y/o cousin recently had triplets with no fertility drugs, and most of the women in my family have easily (often unintentionally!) had children into their mid-30s to 40s. Hope I got their extra-long-egg-releasing genes! If not, my SO would like to adopt, which takes off a lot of biological clock pressure.

I think that pretty much any med student or doctor with a uterus is facing some variation of this conflict. Good luck to all of you working it out. I will definitely be checking back for advice and opinions over the next few years.

I am a 27 yo single female hoping to start medical school this fall. I just want to say thank you to all of you for giving your perspectives on the issues of motherhood.

This is something that I've thought about a lot during this process of applying to medical school. I know I'm not married (and I don't have any prospects):( , but as I am getting older the thoughts have crossed my mind more than once.

I'm just glad to see that there are strong women out here that can balance both their education/career and a family life. You are truly an inspiration to me. :love:

Social issues have cannot replace biological realities. I suppose that we are all biased by our own experiences (having a difficult time conceiving vs coming from a fertile family) but my MS2 year really brought home how many things have to come together to have a normal, viable pregnancy. 4 weeks on REI reinforced that the 40 year old new mother is the exception not the rule. I don't think that anyone was trying to critize personal decisions about when to conceive, just trying to put the info out there that having a baby, esp at advanced age isn't a given like the media constantly portrays. I considered myself a reasonably knowlegeable person prior to med school but never understood the true difficulty of conceiving until I saw a 26 y/o who was married for 4 years trying to conceive with no luck undergoing ICI. While I agree that people have the right to maket the decisions that best fit into their current life situation, I applaud any effort to make sure people understand that realities of fertility at any age.

My being an advisor has no bearing on me saying that women today are not their mothers, etc.

It's not glib, it's the truth.

When my grandmother was 30, med schools did not consist of equal opportunity admissions for women...

I agree that everyone should be educated on what it means to have children later in life. I might take it a little for granted since I probably come from a fertile family. I have aunts that were conceived when my grandmother was in her late 30's and early 40's. But once someone is educated, they're free to make their decisions on children.

I appreciate the debate on "when to have kids" but I think that women who are aspiring med students (like myself) or are med students that plan to wait have really given this a lot of thought. I don't think anyone on either side of the fence thinks a woman should wait without knowing how age can affect her fertility. At the same time I think that, with the exception of posting just to get your $.02, no one is going to change their minds based on anecdotal evidence they read on SDN.

So yay for all the "I hope I don't have to tell you I told you so" posters, but I'm still going to wait to have kids. Medicine is my dream and it makes no sense to throw kids in the mix of what I'm already trying to do when I can wait a few years and not force things. And if I'm not able to get pregnant? Well, I'll deal with that if it happens.

So my final message to the OP - have kids when YOU are ready, not when others tell you that you should.

Another viewpoint... I have already mentioned that I have two kids and am in med school. Well, as of late it has really begun to bother me that my kids are being raised in a daycare rather than by me or my husband. My daughter is 3 1/2 and it just sort of hit me, a year and a half and she will be in kidnergarten and she will have spent relatively small % of her first five years with me. Then after kidnergarten, I will have not have the same opportunity in raising her as I did before she entered school. I'll never have another opportunity to stay at home with her.
So.... I've been considering taking a year off, but this doesn't seem practical at all since we can't really afford to live on just my hubby's salary AND my student loan grace period would be over in 6 months, which we really won't be able to afford any payments.

Obviously I've already had my children and we're stuck in an non ideal situation, but to those who haven't had children yet, perhaps it is a good idea to wait until you can give them a greater portion of yourself that a few hours after work. Obviously those who are in med school are probably not going to be stay at home moms but perhaps our spouses can stay at home with the kiddos.

I don't know what is the best solution nor do I know the benefits of having a stay at home parent verses being at daycare. It could be that my children are none worse for spending 10 hours a day at daycare. I just don't know, but I am definitely concerned about it.

no one is going to change their minds based on anecdotal evidence they read on SDN.


Well, what is there on SDN besides anecdotes? Anecdotes about MCAT scores, applications, etc., it's all anecdotal advice from anonymous posters. It seems that should always be taken with a grain of salt.

To get off the age/fertility topic, I still find the stories posted here of how people have managed the issues of children and career interesting. I think that while all working women face these difficulties to some extent, it's an even more pronounced issue in medicine because the training is so long, it takes place in the 20s-30s for most people, and the work itself is demanding. When you think about it, med school and residency are relatively protected, but there is no 80 hour work week afterwards. Deciding when to start having kids is probably the easy part. It goes way beyond pregnancy, infancy, etc., since ultimately there will be a child or children you want to be able to spend time with while you are building a career.

Personally, I have really struggled with how much time I have to spend away from my daughter. I was recently at a conference for women in my specialty, which is traditionally very male-dominated. It was aimed at women in training or early in their careers. Over and over people echoed these concerns about finding practice opportunities that allowed an acceptable home/work balance. This was true for people in both academics and private practice (I had always thought academics would be better for this; now I am not so sure). I heard a lot of stories about the problems people faced in both of these arenas. Many people wanted to work some version of part-time (which is probably defined a lot differently than it would be in non-medical fields). Some were successful, and some met a tremendous amount of resistance from their colleagues, who were mostly male. Others had "part-time" jobs, but ended up working way more than they had originally intended.

I had thought that the whole child issue would be easier once I'm out of training since med school and residency tend to be pretty inflexible, but I don't think the issues magically get solved once training is over. I just finished negotiating my contract for my first "real" job. My concerns were a lot less about salary than about being able to control my time. I think we managed to come up with a good situation, but it remains to be seen how it will work in reality.

Another viewpoint... I have already mentioned that I have two kids and am in med school. Well, as of late it has really begun to bother me that my kids are being raised in a daycare rather than by me or my husband. My daughter is 3 1/2 and it just sort of hit me, a year and a half and she will be in kidnergarten and she will have spent relatively small % of her first five years with me. Then after kidnergarten, I will have not have the same opportunity in raising her as I did before she entered school. I'll never have another opportunity to stay at home with her.
So.... I've been considering taking a year off, but this doesn't seem practical at all since we can't really afford to live on just my hubby's salary AND my student loan grace period would be over in 6 months, which we really won't be able to afford any payments.

Obviously I've already had my children and we're stuck in an non ideal situation, but to those who haven't had children yet, perhaps it is a good idea to wait until you can give them a greater portion of yourself that a few hours after work. Obviously those who are in med school are probably not going to be stay at home moms but perhaps our spouses can stay at home with the kiddos.

I don't know what is the best solution nor do I know the benefits of having a stay at home parent verses being at daycare. It could be that my children are none worse for spending 10 hours a day at daycare. I just don't know, but I am definitely concerned about it.
Just a quick note about daycare, many parents who AREN'T in medicine have to put their children in daycare as well so its not just med students/residents/physicians worrying about that but I do want to say I agree with you in your thought process. I worry about having to have them in daycare and I hope I can find the right facilities that I feel comfortable with. I grew up in daycare b/c both my parents worked so I didn't end up too badly ;)

I think we are going to head the nanny route most likely though ...

Well, what is there on SDN besides anecdotes? Anecdotes about MCAT scores, applications, etc., it's all anecdotal advice from anonymous posters. It seems that should always be taken with a grain of salt.

True. I love reading people tell what they've done and what's worked for them. Megboo, most of us who choose differently from what you've chosen aren't here to tell you you're wrong and we're right. We're just here to shoot the sh*t, find out what works, etc. Anyone else, take their anecdotes for what they're worth and then ignore them. Don't let those cute cats get their tails all bristled. ;)

When you think about it, med school and residency are relatively protected, but there is no 80 hour work week afterwards.

Yikes. Am I the only one who thinks that if an 80 hour work week is the good news, I don't want to hear the bad news? I can do the 80 hour week like everybody else, but those hours had better get reduced, not increased, after residency! I guess this takes us back to the "family friendly specialties?" thread -- which is kind of sad, because even people without families should have the common sense to know that all work and no play make Jack (as well as Jill) DULL! And burned out and cranky. I've worked with people like that -- I prefer the well-rounded ones with social skills and outside interests. They make better workers in a team environment.

Yikes. Am I the only one who thinks that if an 80 hour work week is the good news, I don't want to hear the bad news? I can do the 80 hour week like everybody else, but those hours had better get reduced, not increased, after residency! I guess this takes us back to the "family friendly specialties?" thread -- which is kind of sad, because even people without families should have the common sense to know that all work and no play make Jack (as well as Jill) DULL! And burned out and cranky. I've worked with people like that -- I prefer the well-rounded ones with social skills and outside interests. They make better workers in a team environment.

I agree - it's crazy that 80 hours is considered a kinder, gentler, schedule! After residency, the good thing is that you'll have more say in what your schedule is like. The tough part is that medicine is the type of career that can swallow up all of your time if you let it, particularly since people that go into medicine tend to be pretty driven. I think this holds true no matter what the specialty, though some are traditionally considered more family-friendly. Different specialties have different challenges in this regard.

What I have learned through my job search in the past few months is that it's important to be clear about what you want. I don't want my colleagues to resent me because I'm working part-time, but I also don't want to be miserable because I am spending way more time at work than I want to. I have been very up-front about this in talking with potential practice partners.

What is even harder is the situation of one woman I know, who started with a practice that she likes and then had a baby. Now she really wants to be part-time, though she is willing to take full call, but her partners won't let her. She didn't realize how strongly she would feel about being home more with the baby, and now is faced with trying to decide if she should leave the group she otherwise likes. I have a lot of sympathy for this - I personally had no idea how strongly I would feel about being with my baby until it happened. It was a very tough adjustment for me going back to work. I knew it would be difficult, but it was much more so than I anticipated. There are a lot of tough choices to be made.

I have an almost 10 yo, and a 6yo, and I'm pregnant with my 3rd due in October. I'm pre-med (pre-pre-pre med! lol) in the early stages of my education, so I figured if we were going to go for it, NOW is the time. By the time I get to med school I want to be able to feel like my family is complete and I can focus on school and not on breastfeeding. :laugh: I think this will work for us, at least... I project that it will! :o

I'm just about to turn 39 (i think as i'm starting to lose track)- gave birth last summer to our miss cutie of a daughter in yr 5 of 6 medicine in Ireland.

She was planned. My eggs had been on the shelf long enough, expiry date fast approaching. Being a new parent takes some juggling. We have no family here and childcare is an enormous issue (dublin daycare 1000 euro per month, yes). I was lucky enough to get a spot in the university daycare (added her name to the waiting list at the 1st site of that thin-pink-YUP-yer-preggers-line!).

Anyway, i can go into all the details but won't. In short, i postponed only one core rotation (2 months of obgyn!), am making it up this fall and will graduate 6 months behind my mates, in December 2007. Did my final medicine/surgery exams tho'! Them's were crazy times and can't believe i did it looking back. Couldn't do it without help- 3/4 grandparents actually flew here each in turn for a week coming up to exams and of course her dad. And the thing is, she totally grounded me, my guiding force for real.

In shorter short - it's doable, not without serious sleep deprivation (good training for residency), but most definitely worth it. Absolutely no regrets.

My own question to put out there is: we want more!

I should- fingers crossed start residency back home in Canada next July 2008, just hope to get a spot in GP- and am thinking of planning another pregnancy. I don't want to "show" for interviews (february)...i know there shouldn't be discrimination but don't want to take the chance. There’s no more time to waste either- my biological clock is on snooze overdrive!

Does anyone know about policies/benefits/maternity leave?

Any advice?
-docmomaly

Sorry ladies Im a guy, but I figured who better to ask for advice on this topic than ladies. I envy most of you as you already have kids or have a plan... im 27 entering MS and want to begin having a family somtime soon... My SO is making great strides in her occupation and cant really take time off right now... My questions to all you is what kind of residencies did you all chose??? Or what specialties are you all pursuing???

I not only want to watch my child grow up but help with the process. I dont call helping giving them a bath and putting them to bed. I know some do, and i do not dis-respect that at all. Its just not what im wanting personally.

Ive seen many Dr's kids (friends of family or friends of my own), never get to actually know their Dad b/c he was married to the hospital. Not even considering surgery, but what is out there for us that would allow us to have a "QUALITY" balance with kids and work hours??? What path have you all chosen to follow???:confused:

I'm 17, so I'm obviously not qualified to say, but from what I've been told (from actual mothers - not my dad lol), 31 seems to be the best age. To me, that seems pretty late, but then again, I haven't been there yet, so I wouldn't know. I'm guessing late twenties to early thirties is the best time to have kids. In all, it depends on your priorities in life.