Anyone hear about NIH CRTP or HHMI Cloister interviews yet? Doris Duke interviews have started to move...

cloisters is going to start sending out interviews on monday. not sure if via email or regular mail. anyone know what they've done in the past?

cloisters is going to start sending out interviews on monday. not sure if via email or regular mail. anyone know what they've done in the past?

I called Cloister and NIH-CRTP today. Cloister said that we would hear by Monday via email and NIH-CRTP said they are sending out emails for interviews on Friday and Letters in the mail to those that are rejected. I can't wait to know something!!

bump

HHMI Cloister interviews sent out around noon. They're setting dates for March 1st and 2nd.

the interviews they sent out today are for only one of the interview weekends or both?

has anyone heard back about the CRTP program yet?

So can you assume if you didnt hear from them today at noon that you didnt get an interview spot?

he said march 1st and 2nd...so im assuming they havent sent out for the other weekend interviews yet?

Lets hope so! I dont know who/where to call otherwise I would have. Well I guess all we can do is wait til Monday?! Anyone else get an invite?

I apologize for the confusion. Apparently there are two separate weeks available for interviews. I can only comment on "Week 1," set for March 1st and 2nd. I'm unaware of what else is going on in terms of notifying applicants.

I heard about the CRTP program this evening in an email. I havent heard from HHMI.

x

when is your hhmi interview? Is it the same weekend on March 1-2

it is the same weekend march 1 to 2nd.

which doris duke programs have offered interviews- have columbia or mt sinai offered?

did anybody get an interview for march 8-9?

I heard about the CRTP program this evening in an email. I havent heard from HHMI.
Yup, CRTP went out around 5:30 yesterday. I'm assuming they must have coordinated with HHMI to release invites on the same day. The CRTP interviews I know of are on March 4th and 5th. Not sure if there are other dates that they are offering interviews.

Does anyone know if the Doris Duke program at UCSF offers interviews?

So anyone hear about march 8 or 9 for the interviews?

perhaps someone could verify but my friend emailed to ask about interviews and the lady told him all invitations were sent out this past friday.

i emailed lets see what they say.

bump...any news?

Yeah I called and they said they sent out all the invites already. This was on Monday.

i should have been more specific. has anyone heard from Columbia or Sinai?

i should have been more specific. has anyone heard from Columbia or Sinai?
Haven't heard a peep from Columbia yet.

Anyone heard anything?

the doris duke programs and crtp have started sending out decisions. does anyone know if hhmi is also moving decisions today?

HHMI 2day as well

heard from cloister and CRTP this morning. has anyone heard from harvard, columbia, or ucsf for doris duke? i know someone who heard from unc.

Heard from UCSF Doris Duke today! Good luck, everyone.

Heard from UCSF Doris Duke today! Good luck, everyone.

Heard from Yale Doris Duke today! Ditto on the good luck!! :luck:

Cloister here I come!! Got e-mail yesterday!
Goodluck guys

I heard today that my classmate is going to turn down a Howard Hughes for Cloister 2/2 prestige. Is the Cloister program that prestigious? I always thought it was Howard Hughes and then everything else. Am I wrong? Are they on equal footing?

I heard today that my classmate is going to turn down a Howard Hughes for Cloister 2/2 prestige. Is the Cloister program that prestigious? I always thought it was Howard Hughes and then everything else. Am I wrong? Are they on equal footing?
the cloister program IS a howard hughes program. and it's arguably the most prestigious of any of the research year programs due to it being around since the early 80's.

x

Anyone have any news from HMS yet?

Trying to choose b/w this program and Hughes (not cloister, the off-site Hughes)

Nrf

hey nrf~

i posted this in the other place where you asked your question:

"hey, i'm sure that by now you've confirmed your howard hughes, but harvard's doris duke program filled w/ the first round of acceptances this time. in any case, i've heard that the howard hughes program is amazing. so enjoy it!"

as for me i'll be at unc for the doris duke this year! good luck to everyone out there still figuring out their plans for a research year!

and for the person who asked about doris duke vs. hhmi- i think that's an interesting question because i think some people wouldn't even apply for hhmi in the first place if their interests are more clinical research than basic science, myself for example. that being said, i haven't heard of someone choosing doris duke over hhmi.

cheers,
wd

Has anyone received anything "official" yet? I mean anything beyond an email? It's sad, but for some reason I feel like we should get something in the mail!

Has anyone received anything "official" yet? I mean anything beyond an email? It's sad, but for some reason I feel like we should get something in the mail!

I know - I feel exactly the same way. I had to print my e-mail and take it to the registrar's office and ask if it was acceptable to include that in my "year-off" form. I felt silly...

Maybe it's my left-over med school application self talking, but I totally agree. An "official" letter would be nice. Plus some more information (at least from my school) on mentor selection, relocation money, etc., etc., etc... July 1st isn't that far away! :)

Yeah, I'm at UCSF too, so hopefully we can get a response from someone at one of the other schools.

hey guys- will be at UCSF as well-

sharing the same concerns as the both of you- esp with the fact that we're supposed to visit at some pt in may to finalize mentors, etc.

hopefully we get some of the logistical info soon.

any idea where you guys are gonna live?

Alright, so now either by posting or private message I know of three people on here going to UCSF. Including myself and two others from Stanford, that's 6. That's got to be the majority of people? alec689 is putting together an email group if any other UCSFers want in, so send him a message.

Also, is anyone else on here doing the international program (UCSF or other)?

Bump.

Does anyone who's successfully applied and been accepted in the past have any advice for the applications? Anyone want to share experiences at a particular school? Thanks!

Check the search function for "NIH CRTP." This sort of thread pops up every year, so you'll find a lot.

===============

- It occurred to me that you probably used the search function to bump this thread. I got ahold of one poster who got into both HHMI Cloisters and the NIH CRTP via PM. I asked her several questions, some of which overlap with your's. Summarizing from her response:

- Timeline: Apply in the winter online, interview in March, and hear if you are accepted a few weeks later.

- ID'ing a mentor when you get there: Some folks knew who they wanted to work with ahead of time (family, connections, past work experience, etc). Most CRTPers are not this way and will interview with several labs before they decide which one they want to work with.

- Clinical aspects of CRTP: Can be a waste, may not. Varies widely from one participant to another. Clinical work may be an aspect of your project. How the year is spent is entirely up to the student.

- What got her in: She honestly could not tell me. She did not know she had a chance when applying. She had a lot of research experience as an undergrad, and she was very forthright in her interest in doing research during the interview.

if anyone has questions about the NIH programs (cloister and crtp), ask away. i'm in the cloister program right now.

Great - I'd like to ask you the same questions and get your input:

Where are you now in the program?

What was the the series of events that made up your application process, with respect to both the NIH and your 3rd year rotations? (or tell us the time line if you went MS2 -> HHMI)

How did you identify who to work with?

Are the clinical aspects of the program worthwhile, or are they a waste of time? (or, if you know anyone in the CRTP, what their experience has been so far)

Did you think it is worth it? That is, what were your goals in participating in the program, and have you been able to achieve them so far?

What was it about your application and interview that you feel got you a spot?

You may not be able to answer some of my questions, but thanks in advance.

I have another question - in your personal statement, did you identify a specific area of research that you wanted to do, or just discuss why you wanted to do clinical research in general? I've only been through 3 rotations, and have no idea WHAT I want to do yet, but I'm wondering if I should pick something and write about it vs. just writing about research in general. Thanks.

I am midway through the cloister program. I applied during my clinical year (MS2 at Duke). On that note, I would highly encourage people to apply after their clinical year, since so many career decisions are dictated/altered during clinical year.

I basically knew who I wanted to work with long before coming to the NIH, mainly because there is only one person in my field of interest at the NIH. However, for most people, they choose a mentor after coming to the NIH. You spend the first 2-4 weeks meeting with a whole bunch of PIs and getting a feel for their labs.

Since I'm in the cloister program, I don't actually know much about the clinical aspects of the CRTP program. My program has no clinical bent towards it. For some, that works out just as well. However, for people like me who love the clinical side of things in addition to the research, you have to forge your own path.

Is the program worth it? It depends on what your expectations are and what you envision your career path to be. So, it's entirely dependent on you individually. If you want this program to help you bolster your residency application even though you have no desire to do research in the future, I would be hard pressed to justify taking a year out of your life for that. But, even that, it's dependent on you.

To answer diosa428, I was very specific in my interest in research. At the time I was applying, I knew what field clinically I wanted to go into (peds cards) but I did not necessarily know what research aspect of peds cards, which is impossible to know since it will change. So, I talked about my interest in congenital heart disease and tissue engineering, which are two things I've been interested in for a while. However, if you don't know what field you want to go into, there is no reason to just choose one for the sake of the application. There are people in my program who have never done research nor know what field they want to go into. So, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Speaking in general terms is fine.

Very cool. Thanks.

I am midway through the cloister program. I applied during my clinical year (MS2 at Duke). On that note, I would highly encourage people to apply after their clinical year, since so many career decisions are dictated/altered during clinical year.

I basically knew who I wanted to work with long before coming to the NIH, mainly because there is only one person in my field of interest at the NIH. However, for most people, they choose a mentor after coming to the NIH. You spend the first 2-4 weeks meeting with a whole bunch of PIs and getting a feel for their labs.

Since I'm in the cloister program, I don't actually know much about the clinical aspects of the CRTP program. My program has no clinical bent towards it. For some, that works out just as well. However, for people like me who love the clinical side of things in addition to the research, you have to forge your own path.

Is the program worth it? It depends on what your expectations are and what you envision your career path to be. So, it's entirely dependent on you individually. If you want this program to help you bolster your residency application even though you have no desire to do research in the future, I would be hard pressed to justify taking a year out of your life for that. But, even that, it's dependent on you.

To answer diosa428, I was very specific in my interest in research. At the time I was applying, I knew what field clinically I wanted to go into (peds cards) but I did not necessarily know what research aspect of peds cards, which is impossible to know since it will change. So, I talked about my interest in congenital heart disease and tissue engineering, which are two things I've been interested in for a while. However, if you don't know what field you want to go into, there is no reason to just choose one for the sake of the application. There are people in my program who have never done research nor know what field they want to go into. So, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Speaking in general terms is fine.

Ramblin - did you apply to multiple programs or just the cloister? Also, do you think the clinical experience helps specifically with the research or just helped you to decide the specific field of research you wanted to pursue?

I can answer questions about the HHMI research fellowship for medical students, yay!

I can answer questions about the HHMI research fellowship for medical students, yay!Would you mind answering (roughly) the same questions that I posted earlier? Thanks.

I'm happy to answer any Qs re: Doris Duke. Advice: apply to several programs unless you are interested in a particular mentor (my case). Easier to get into your home school if it is a DDF site.

This is for the year long HHMI Research Training Fellowships for Medical Students (http://www.hhmi.org/grants/individuals/medfellows.html)

Where are you now in the program? I am half way finished, fellowship ends in 6 months.

What was the the series of events that made up your application process, with respect to both the NIH and your 3rd year rotations? For fellowship between MS2/MS3: during MS1 to first half of MS2, locate mentor at your own institution or another institution. Complete and submit application with their support by January of your MS2 year.

How did you identify who to work with? You need to find a mentor on your own. I had worked with my mentor during the pre-MS2 summer and during MS2 year.

Are the clinical aspects of the program worthwhile, or are they a waste of time? HHMI fellowship focuses heavily on basic science. No clinical time is required or expected.

Did you think it is worth it? That is, what were your goals in participating in the program, and have you been able to achieve them so far? Worth it if you can publish at least 1 first author paper.

What was it about your application and interview that you feel got you a spot? No interview is required, I think having worked with my mentor for a while already helped a lot.

Hey, no worries. I applied to the Cloister, CRTP, and a few DDCFs.

I think your clinical experience helps with deciding a specific field of research that you want to pursue. Plenty of people who haven't done clinical year get quite a bit out of this program, but I would just suggest finishing your core rotations first.

I applied/inteviewed/was accepted to the DDCRF, HHMI Cloister and NIH CRTP programs.

Where are you now in the program?

Midway through a DDCRF year.

What was the the series of events that made up your application process, with respect to both the NIH and your 3rd year rotations? (or tell us the time line if you went MS2 -> HHMI)

I put together all three applications over my holiday break. I knew I'd be applying for a year off by October of my third year, so I had the foresight to ask my dean and attendings/PI's for LORs before I began writing my PS and filling out the apps. Doris Duke interviews at multiple schools began rolling in late January. I interviewed at both CRTP and the Cloister, so I heard from them in early Feb for a combined interview weekend in the first week of March.

How did you identify who to work with?
Dug through Pubmed. Read bios. General word of mouth/mouf.

Are the clinical aspects of the program worthwhile, or are they a waste of time? (or, if you know anyone in the CRTP, what their experience has been so far)

The DDCRF has been AMAZING so far. I'm interested in being a clinician-scientist, so the appeal of a "protected" year of clinical research time was undeniable. I have a great mentor who is probably more of a friend than a boss, awesome techs and grad students who help me navigate in my lab, and the other DDCRF fellows in my program are really chill people to boot. We have a didactic component so we get to take public health/epi classes in our public health school most afternoons of the week. All the fellows usually have a weekly or bi-weekly luncheon to discuss topics in clinical research (or to just take a break from lab if the mood strikes).

Did you think it is worth it? That is, what were your goals in participating in the program, and have you been able to achieve them so far?

Yes. I would do it again in a heartbeat. And given that I'm probably going into a demanding residency, this year has been perfect for a mental recharge after M3. I'm finally getting back into the shape I was before medical school!

What was it about your application and interview that you feel got you a spot?

Not sure really. My board scores/grades are pretty good, but I know people who had just as good, if not better, stats that weren't even interviewed. In retrospect, it was probably strong letters that may have been the difference. Aside from my research dean, I had a PI who knew me and my ability really well and an attending from my medicine rotation I was close with write on my behalf. My personal statement was also very clear about my goals to be a clinician-scientist and outlined my areas of research interest. The key to any good PS is weaving an interesting story/plot with your future goals.

Good luck all! Feel free to PM if you've got questions.

Just finished applying to 2 of the basic science research fellowships earlier this week! Good feeling to be done with the apps, now just to wait and see about interviews.

Thanks to those who have posted about their experiences :thumbup:

anyone hear back about Howard hughes cloister (HHMI) interviews yet?

nope nothing yet. hopefully we will hear something this weekend?

d

nope nothing yet. hopefully we will hear something this weekend?

I imagine it'll be today or Monday. Most likely Monday considering the date that applicants got invitations last year.

BTW, does anyone know if all DD sites require interviews? It would be bittersweet if I got multiple interviews because I'll be in the middle of my clerkship at that time and might have to withdrawal if I accumulate too many absences.

Has anyone else given this any thought?

d

I imagine it'll be today or Monday. Most likely Monday considering the date that applicants got invitations last year.

BTW, does anyone know if all DD sites require interviews? It would be bittersweet if I got multiple interviews because I'll be in the middle of my clerkship at that time and might have to withdrawal if I accumulate too many absences.

Has anyone else given this any thought?

I applied to Harvard, Columbia, Yale, UCSF and Penn and I think of those 5 only Penn requires an interview.

I got an email from Cloisters this morning :D

It was awesome to find the email waiting for me as I got out of my first final of the term.

d

Hey everyone!

I also got an email this morning! Ditto on the whole exam thing...just finished a morning path/pharm house exam (which was brutal) when I read the email :)

Congrats!

Do they send emails or Letters because I thought they send you letter notifications?

d

is HHMI-NIH done sending out interview invites? anyone heard from crtp or hhmi fellows?

congrats everyone!

When are you interviewing? Mine is March 6-7th :-D

Would you folks be willing to post your interview experiences for the rest of us (who have to live vicariously through you :D )?

d

Hey all!

I received an interview invite early this morning. Will be interviewing on March 13-14. Best of luck to the rest of you.

Definitely will let you know how it goes.

I'll be down there 13-14th.

I got an NIH-CRTP invite @6:15pm today!!! Best of luck to everyone!

I just got my CRTP interview invite as well :) Anyone know how many people they invite for interviews? Just wondering what percentage of people interviewed end up getting an offer...thanks!

Does anyone know if the Doris Duke program at UNC interviews applicants? Anyone have any idea how competitive the UNC DD program is? Also, is there anyone here who has participated in the UNC DD program in a previous year who wouldn't mind posting his/her experiences?

I got an email from the DD co-ordinator at UNC with potential mentors a couple days ago and got in touch with one of the mentors. Currently hashing out a project proposal with him.

Thanks!

Does anyone know if the Doris Duke program at UNC interviews applicants? Anyone have any idea how competitive the UNC DD program is? Also, is there anyone here who has participated in the UNC DD program in a previous year who wouldn't mind posting his/her experiences?

I got an email from the DD co-ordinator at UNC with potential mentors a couple days ago and got in touch with one of the mentors. Currently hashing out a project proposal with him.

Thanks!


Same here. I sincerely doubt they interview considering the mentor's letter isn't due until March. But don't hold me to that.

Any more word on DD? So far, UPenn and Iowa have offered interviews. UNC and WashU definately haven't. I can't say anything about the rest.

d

Hey,

UNC does not interview, I emailed Susan Pusek about that. Apparently we all need to get a mentor letter submitted and that will place us "within the first group given acceptance to the program."
Does anyone know if the Doris Duke program at UNC interviews applicants? Anyone have any idea how competitive the UNC DD program is?...This is all pretty interesting. Does the UNC DD program have a formal classroom component? I ask because

1) I am interested in getting the formal training these places offer
2) It's a measure of how serious the host institutions treat the program

Also, is there anyone here who has participated in the UNC DD program in a previous year who wouldn't mind posting his/her experiences? :thumbup:

I was just wondering are these fellowships considered taxable income?

I was just wondering are these fellowships considered taxable income?

Yes, I asked.

Yes, I asked.

Hmm it seems in the case of medical student research fellowships where you work at an institution with an HHMI stipend, you are technically a nonemployee research, and the stipend will not be reported to the IRS and thus is tax free. Look at harvard for example:
http://vpf-web.harvard.edu/documents/fellowshippayments.html

Hope everyone's applications are going well. Any word from UTSW (confirmation email, interview, etc...)?

The more and more I think about this...the more and more of a black box this application process becomes...haha, maybe its best to leave it at that.

Good luck!!

Hmm it seems in the case of medical student research fellowships where you work at an institution with an HHMI stipend, you are technically a nonemployee research, and the stipend will not be reported to the IRS and thus is tax free. Look at harvard for example:
http://vpf-web.harvard.edu/documents/fellowshippayments.html

That's pretty cool - you think it applies for other funding like Sarnoff or DD?

Hmm it seems in the case of medical student research fellowships where you work at an institution with an HHMI stipend, you are technically a nonemployee research, and the stipend will not be reported to the IRS and thus is tax free. Look at harvard for example:
http://vpf-web.harvard.edu/documents/fellowshippayments.html

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the DD.

got an email from utsw today to set up a phone appt to discuss my research interests, career plans, etc....

anyone else get a similar email. not sure what to make of it. said they have completed their prelim ranking of applicants - im guessing this "interview" is to further solidify it?

got an email today from utsw also with the same information.

i am a student at utsw.

i did not know what to make of the email either :(

hey, i emailed to set up an appointment with mcphaul but havent heard back from you. did you get a response back?

got an email today from utsw also with the same information.

i am a student at utsw.

i did not know what to make of the email either :(

nope, i havent heard anything back. i emailed him with available times also.

nope, i havent heard anything back. i emailed him with available times also.

Heard anything back yet?? I haven't.

d

Hey,

I just got a message on my phone today from someone from UTSW DD, but I unfortunately didn't hear my phone ring. He left a message asking me to call back tomorrow...I'm sure by now you guys have also heard from UTSW?

yea i spoke with the assistant program director last week. he just wanted to know a little more about my previous research experience and answer any questions i had. he mentioned they are talking to about 20-25 applicants on the phone (out of a total of 50). according to him, they anticipate to take 7 students unless they can secure additional mentors/funding.

d

I talked with the director of the program from UTSW on the phone. Basically, the same thing, asked about my research interests and if I had done research on possible mentors on campus. He stated that applicants will be notified if they are accepted by this coming friday.

So what were the interviews like? (those who traveled and did them in person)

d

According to my convo with the UTSW program, I am not sure if anyone had an "in person" interview. He mentioned that of the 50+ applicants, 20ish were being called on the phone of which there are 8 spots.

Did anyone hear from UNC this morning?


Did UNC starting releasing decisions?

Anybody else nervous about Friday? Are HHMI fellows and cloister/NIH crtp decisions going to be released the same day?

d

According to my convo with the UTSW program, I am not sure if anyone had an "in person" interview...But there were some other posters on this thread who promised they'd write about their experiences, and my post was to remind them. But anyone else can contribute!

UTSW: had a phone interview with program director last week about research interests and future aspirations - informal, he said they were anticipating 8 spots for ~25 applications.

Upitt: no word since completed application

UNC: heard a while ago that my mentor had written me a letter and that my app would go ahead to the selection committee - Helo, did you hear about an acceptence?

UPenn: nothing since interview

UCSF: nothing new

Has anyone heard about an acceptence to any of the programs? I heard that all programs (Doris Duke and HHMI affiliates) had an agreement that they would all inform students no earlier than March 21 this year.

Good luck to everyone! Its going to be a nerve wracking 24 hours...

According to my convo with the UTSW program, I am not sure if anyone had an "in person" interview. He mentioned that of the 50+ applicants, 20ish were being called on the phone of which there are 8 spots.

Did anyone hear from UNC this morning?

UTSW: had a phone interview with program director last week about research interests and future aspirations - informal, he said they were anticipating 8 spots for ~25 applications.

Upitt: no word since completed application

UNC: heard a while ago that my mentor had written me a letter and that my app would go ahead to the selection committee - Helo, did you hear about an acceptence?

UPenn: nothing since interview

UCSF: nothing new

Has anyone heard about an acceptence to any of the programs? I heard that all programs (Doris Duke and HHMI affiliates) had an agreement that they would all inform students no earlier than March 21 this year.

Good luck to everyone! Its going to be a nerve wracking 24 hours...

I feel like tomorrow is never going to come.

Let me just mention my interviews for others in the future:

HHMI: This program was very formal with difficult interviews that really probe you on your research. The facilities were nice, but you have to consider whether you want to live and work at the NIH for a whole year. I realized this situation just wasn't for me. This program started as my top choice, but moved down my list after the interview.

Iowa DD: Layed back as ****. Just shoot the **** with a bunch of interviewers and hang out. I had a fab time and could definately see myself there.

CRTP: This program was somewhere in between Iowa and HHMI. The fellows seemed like they were having more fun than the HHMI kids. I like the fact that you don't live at the NIH, but are within walking distance of it. This interview was a great experience.

Haven't heard back from any of the other programs I applied at.

In at CRTP. Anyone heard from any dd programs today?

Accepted to HHMI Cloister program, but rejected for HHMI Med Fellows -- both via email this morning. Did not apply to any other research programs.

d

accepted utsw dd

Accepted to DDCRF at WashU!!! :D
Rejected for HHMI med fellows.

So nobody has heard a word either way from the UNC Doris Duke Program?

Still hoping there's a chance!!
:o

accepted at utsw - gonna take this most likely; will decide this weekend

waitlisted at pitt

have not heard back from other dd programs (im guessing that means i wasnt in their first round)

I need some help...would you go to Doris Duke or NIH-CRTP? :confused: I can't decide...any input is appreciated. The research is basically the same @ both places, but which one has the most prestige?

Accepted to Sarnoff yesterday and an alternate for Cloisters! Psyched to be taking a year off for research!

I'll post more later about the specific interview experiences.

I need some help...would you go to Doris Duke or NIH-CRTP? :confused: I can't decide...any input is appreciated. The research is basically the same @ both places, but which one has the most prestige?

I think the prestige would depend on the DD institution. Obviously it's most important to go to the program that you think you'd get the most out of, but prestige is an important factor to consider in your decision.

In general, most people that I speak to say that the "prestige" ranking is:
HHMI (either program) and Top DD schools (Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, UCSF, WashU, Columbia, etc.) > CRTP and other DD schools

Having said that, all programs are prestigious and all have their pros and cons. The program is going to be what you make of it and none will hurt you in the future.

I got one of the "other DD schools", CRTP, and Cloister and am currently making my decision.

Rejected from Columbia DD. No word on the others. Good luck to the rest of you in the coming days and weeks!

Yeah I got a rejection from the Columbia DD. My roommate got a waitlist from the UCSF DD and one of my friends got an acceptance from the UCSF DD.

I need some help...would you go to Doris Duke or NIH-CRTP? :confused: I can't decide...any input is appreciated. The research is basically the same @ both places, but which one has the most prestige?

I think it depends upon what you want to do research in. The NIH basically has top research in all departments, but not all schools do. If you know specifically what department you want to do research in, I would find out whether or not that school has good research in that area (maybe by asking people in that area at your school). It also depends upon WHERE you want to be - do you like the area of the school vs Bethesda? Do you like that the CRTP basically has a built in group of like 70 students (if you count Cloisters + CRTP) that you can hang out with? Also, are you considering doing residency at the school you got the DD at? B/c you could potentially make some good connections while there. I would consider all these factors over prestige b/c I think when you apply to residencies they're going to be more interested in the quality of your research and your letter from it than they are in whether it was a DD or NIH program.

d

Going to the Cloister! .....that does sound kind of odd....I'm going to the nunnery! :-P

The interview was on a Friday. You have 2 interviews-2 people interview you in each one, 30 minutes each. Supposedly there is a "personality" and a "research" interview. I'd say my research interview was 25 minutes pure research with relevant questions on their part thrown in. My "personality" interview was probably 50 50-research and "tell me about yourself i want to make sure you're not entirely socially inept" The research interview was pretty basic, no really bizarre off the wall questions just-how is this relevant, where could it go from here, etc etc.... Pretty stress free, everybody is nice to you, and there's a constant supply of food.

GL to everyone!

I need some help...would you go to Doris Duke or NIH-CRTP? :confused: I can't decide...any input is appreciated. The research is basically the same @ both places, but which one has the most prestige?

I've heard that Doris Duke - no matter which school - is more prestigious than CRTP. I think probably because it's been around much longer and the name is well-known. But, that said, I'm sure you'd have a great experience at either program.

Anyone have any thoughts about Sarnoff versus DD Wash U?

FYI:
Doris Duke inception was 2000

NIH CRTP was founded in 1997

I don't think that there is a blanket statement that any DD is more prestigious than NIH CRTP.

anyone know when the dd programs start? is it different for each program? trying to figure out if i can fit in an elective in late june...

d

Yeah I got a rejection from the Columbia DD. My roommate got a waitlist from the UCSF DD and one of my friends got an acceptance from the UCSF DD.

Did UCSF interview people on their waitlist? Or did they interview only those they gave acceptances to?

Did UCSF interview people on their waitlist? Or did they interview only those they gave acceptances to?

As far as I know they didn't interview anyone. But my roommate def didn't interview. The email she got didn't officially say it was a waitlist, it just said that they had made their initial offers and would possibly be making more offers in the future. Since I didn't get one, I took it to mean she was still in consideration and I wasn't - aka, waitlist.

Aside from perhaps the HHMI Cloister program:

I do not believe you can really draw a difference between the prestige of one program versus another.

It probably has ultimately more to do with the research mentor that you choose.

I think it would be way more prestigious to work for a nobel laurete or member of the national academy of sciences at ut southwestern (insert other top tier lesser known school) than to perhaps work for an associate professor at harvard/hopkins/ucsf (insert other top tier well known school). Just a possible example, but I believe the mentor (prob. a person who will write a letter for you) matters more.

I don't really understand why the Cloister program is so "prestigious". Their acceptance rate is about the same as the CRTP, and it's arguably much harder to get a DD fellowship b/c they have considerably fewer spaces. I doubt the candidates that get the Cloister are considerably better applicants than those in the other programs. Is it just because the program is affiliated with HHMI, or because it has been around longer?

I think what matters most is having a productive year and getting a good letter, which I believe can be done in pretty much any of the programs - you just have to select your mentor/lab wisely. In addition, as I stated above, not all the well-known institutions necessarily have strong departments in ALL areas, and some of the not-top institutions have great departments in certain areas (ie, Iowa has a fabulous ophtho dept).

I don't really understand why the Cloister program is so "prestigious". Their acceptance rate is about the same as the CRTP

At the CRTP dinner, they mentioned that they get ~90 applicants, interview ~60 and 30 participate in the program. However, they said that if you get to the point that they interview you, you will likely be accepted due to the fact that many turn down their offers. So your chances are ~2/3.

HHMI gets ~160 applicants, interview ~80 for 42 spots, but has a very short waitlist due to the fact that few applicants turn down their offer. So your chances are 1/4.

and it's arguably much harder to get a DD fellowship b/c they have considerably fewer spaces.

DD offers a minimum of 60 spots every year, but recently there have been many more than that. Their size is about double HHMI.

I doubt the candidates that get the Cloister are considerably better applicants than those in the other programs. Is it just because the program is affiliated with HHMI, or because it has been around longer?

It's important to remember that HHMI takes applications from Dental schools and vet schools as well. Besides that, they take 2nd year applicants, unlike CRTP and several DD sites. Some schools, including mine, prescreen HHMI applicants before allowing them to submit their applications for the program.

I think what matters most is having a productive year and getting a good letter, which I believe can be done in pretty much any of the programs - you just have to select your mentor/lab wisely. In addition, as I stated above, not all the well-known institutions necessarily have strong departments in ALL areas, and some of the not-top institutions have great departments in certain areas (ie, Iowa has a fabulous ophtho dept).

I couldn't agree more with you on this. All of the programs offer you the chance to succeed. The year is what you make of it. And yeah, Iowa has top Ortho, Ophtho, and ENT programs and the nicest lab facilities I've ever seen at a medical school.

DD offers a minimum of 60 spots every year, but recently there have been many more than that. Their size is about double HHMI.

That's only true if you assume that every candidate applies to every DD program. The individual programs each have <10 spots, so if you only apply to one, it's more competitive.

It's important to remember that HHMI takes applications from Dental schools and vet schools as well. Besides that, they take 2nd year applicants, unlike CRTP and several DD sites. Some schools, including mine, prescreen HHMI applicants before allowing them to submit their applications for the program.

I still don't understand why it's more "prestigious"... what difference does it make how many types of applicants they take?

That's only true if you assume that every candidate applies to every DD program. The individual programs each have <10 spots, so if you only apply to one, it's more competitive.

True. But few people apply to only 1 program and the ones that do are showing commitment to a program and are more likely to be selected for a spot.

Besides that, I think it would be a serious error in judgement to apply to only 1 program without some strong indication beforehand that you'll be accepted. You could really screw yourself over. It's best to apply broadly if you really want a spot.

I still don't understand why it's more "prestigious"... what difference does it make how many types of applicants they take?

Per a dental student that is a current fellow: most of the dental (and now vet) students that apply are interviewed, bumping out the med students for interview spots. It's just one more level of competition. Based on your statement from before you clearly believe the higher the competition, the higher the prestige. And I agree with you for the most part.

But I think the real reason is simple: Why is Harvard more prestigious? Money. Why is HHMI more prestigious? Same reason. Their endowment is in the 20 billion dollar range. Dwarfing CRTP and DD.

True. But few people apply to only 1 program and the ones that do are showing commitment to a program and are more likely to be selected for a spot.

Besides that, I think it would be a serious error in judgement to apply to only 1 program without some strong indication beforehand that you'll be accepted. You could really screw yourself over. It's best to apply broadly if you really want a spot.

Lol. I only applied to the UTSW DD. I have a condo in Dallas, so I am sort of committed to stay here. The director (who is the dean of medical student research of the school) told me I was putting myself in a bad situation by only applying to one program. Good thing I got in :).

Lol. I only applied to the UTSW DD. I have a condo in Dallas, so I am sort of committed to stay here. The director (who is the dean of medical student research of the school) told me I was putting myself in a bad situation by only applying to one program. Good thing I got in :).

Congrats! I love Dallas and UTSW seems like a great program.

I'm glad it worked out for you and it illustrates my point. Everyone has different priorities and obviously one of yours is staying put. Showing commitment to one program has given your application preference over others. I spoke to the head of that program (McPhaul) early last week and he let me know that out of the 8 spots offered, 6 were filled by people that would definately be taking his first round offers. These were the ones that only applied to UTSW or promised him that it was their #1 choice. He was on the lookout for 2 more applicants who would make the same commitment. He even asked me if I would to commit to going there if I got a first round acceptance.

He probably said you were putting yourself in a bad situation to further test your resolve. And you were rewarded with a spot.

Good luck to you!

Per a dental student that is a current fellow: most of the dental (and now vet) students that apply are interviewed, bumping out the med students for interview spots. It's just one more level of competition. Based on your statement from before you clearly believe the higher the competition, the higher the prestige. And I agree with you for the most part.

But I think the real reason is simple: Why is Harvard more prestigious? Money. Why is HHMI more prestigious? Same reason. Their endowment is in the 20 billion dollar range. Dwarfing CRTP and DD.

I guess what interests me about this is how quickly this thread disintegrated into "which program should I choose based on prestige" - reminds me of pre-allo and all the premeds deciding which school to choose based on USNWR rankings. What I'm trying to figure out is if this "prestige" thing is real - ie, when you apply to residency, are they actually going to be more impressed that you spent a year at the Cloisters vs CRTP. Because I honestly doubt it - a year of research is a year of research and they're going to be more interested in who you worked with, what your letter says, and whether or not you produced a publication. Of course, this is just my opinion, which is why I was asking about the prestige stuff.

This is my opinion about the "prestige" factor. Let me know if you disagree considerably with any particular point.

Some of this prestige is important for bragging to your friends, but that's about it. My parents have no idea what Cloister or HHMI is (they're not in the medical academic circle), so they would likely be more impressed by Harvard or Yale because they recognize the name. But for those people who will be making decisions about my future residency, etc., they will undoubtedly know that all these programs are great places to do research and will likely assume they are equally competitive (I know that is a loaded statement, sorry). But regardless of competitiveness, I hope the most value will go into the quality of my research and my productivity, which is not necessarily associated with the particular program or institution, but instead the mentor and research topic. Therefore the prestige factor is most likely going to depend on who you're doing research with and on what topic, not where and through what program.

So I guess the point is who are you trying to impress with this prestige?

I guess what interests me about this is how quickly this thread disintegrated into "which program should I choose based on prestige" - reminds me of pre-allo and all the premeds deciding which school to choose based on USNWR rankings. What I'm trying to figure out is if this "prestige" thing is real - ie, when you apply to residency, are they actually going to be more impressed that you spent a year at the Cloisters vs CRTP. Because I honestly doubt it - a year of research is a year of research and they're going to be more interested in who you worked with, what your letter says, and whether or not you produced a publication. Of course, this is just my opinion, which is why I was asking about the prestige stuff.

Who asked "which program should I choose based on prestige?" Someone asked which program was most prestigious, but that was probably just general curiosity.

We've discussed nearly every aspect of these program, including applications, competition, interviews, housing, mentors, environment, compensation, and now we're discussing prestige. It's a natural progression of topics.

This is my opinion about the "prestige" factor. Let me know if you disagree considerably with any particular point.

Some of this prestige is important for bragging to your friends, but that's about it. My parents have no idea what Cloister or HHMI is (they're not in the medical academic circle), so they would likely be more impressed by Harvard or Yale because they recognize the name. But for those people who will be making decisions about my future residency, etc., they will undoubtedly know that all these programs are great places to do research and will likely assume they are equally competitive (I know that is a loaded statement, sorry). But regardless of competitiveness, I hope the most value will go into the quality of my research and my productivity, which is not necessarily associated with the particular program or institution, but instead the mentor and research topic. Therefore the prestige factor is most likely going to depend on who you're doing research with and on what topic, not where and through what program.

So I guess the point is who are you trying to impress with this prestige?

Even worse, I've had people talk down to me about "having" to take an extra year to complete medical school.

Who asked "which program should I choose based on prestige?" Someone asked which program was most prestigious, but that was probably just general curiosity.

We've discussed nearly every aspect of these program, including applications, competition, interviews, housing, mentors, environment, compensation, and now we're discussing prestige. It's a natural progression of topics.

Perhaps a "natural progression of topics" in the land of Type-A medical students. :rolleyes: I guess I'm just sick of hearing about it since everyone at my school takes a year to do research or get a degree, and it's a hot topic now that everyone has their acceptances in hand. However, the actual point of my post was the following - regardless of WHY we're talking about it, I was just curious about what people's opinions were on HOW the prestige factor would actually impact our lives in the future.

Perhaps a "natural progression of topics" in the land of Type-A medical students. I guess I'm just sick of hearing about it since everyone at my school takes a year to do research or get a degree, and it's a hot topic now that everyone has their acceptances in hand. However, the actual point of my post was the following - regardless of WHY we're talking about it, I was just curious about what people's opinions were on HOW the prestige factor would actually impact our lives in the future.

Good call, I'm sick of talking about this too. Let's never say that word again. At least we've given the next application cycle something to think about when they comb through this thread next year.

Anyone hear from UNC DD?

anyone hear from columbia DD? I know some rejections went out..but haven't heard whether acceptances have gone out.

anyone hear from columbia DD? I know some rejections went out..but haven't heard whether acceptances have gone out.

Yeah someone I know got an acceptance. If you haven't heard yet, perhaps you're on a wait list?

So I guess the point is who are you trying to impress with this prestige?

Not too keep this theme running, but I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents (also not a response to any specific person, I just quoted Dionysus for continuity sake).

If you have no/little research experience and don't really know how to publish research - then the prestige of the program is probably most important. I think cloisters has a solid record in this regard - and their alumni tend to do quite well in obtaining elite residency spots.

However, if you do publish during your year or get to know a department at your DD (etc) site really well, it'll probably get you further than the cloisters name alone will. I imagine that having a productive research year anywhere looks about equally good (and trumps a less productive year). To that extent I think it makes sense to pick the program at which you feel you'd be most productive.

Alternate to the Cloister, anyone not accepting their spot?!

Doris Duke was the Paris Hilton of her time, but then Howard Hughes was a nut job too.

has anybody heard anything from harvard, hopkins, mt. sinai, unc or penn??

has anybody heard anything from harvard, hopkins, mt. sinai, unc or penn??

nothing yet. its a little annoying because im sure they gave out offers starting friday...a status update would have been nice. in any case, where is everyone going?

and for the utsw people, any further communication since friday? any idea on when we can expect more info (start dates, contracts, etc).

I'm pretty certain that columbia and mt sinai DD are both on a wait list. for other programs, no idea.

has anybody heard anything from harvard, hopkins, mt. sinai, unc or penn??


hi all new to the forum...wish i'd found this earlier...super helpful.:)

with regards to your question i know people who have been accepted to both unc and penn...not sure about the other schools

i'm an alternate at cloisters and haven't heard from dd unc, so i assume i'm on some sort of waitlist there too. i'm in at crtp, but strongly prefer cloisters or unc dd. anyone know how these waitlists work/move?

UNC sent out acceptances, but apparently hasn't heard back from half of the people yet.

Colombia also sent out acceptances.

Hopefully people will start deciding so we can see some movement off of the waitlists! I hope! :scared:

hi all new to the forum...wish i'd found this earlier...super helpful.:)

with regards to your question i know people who have been accepted to both unc and penn...not sure about the other schools

i'm an alternate at cloisters and haven't heard from dd unc, so i assume i'm on some sort of waitlist there too. i'm in at crtp, but strongly prefer cloisters or unc dd. anyone know how these waitlists work/move?


Cloister decisions must be submitted by April 4th, so latest should be after then?

Hi,

I am basically posting so that people can PM if they have questions about the Cloister program, because I spent 2006-2007 there. I am currently a third year med student. From my experience in talking to other applicants, most people who apply to multiple programs tend to prefer the Cloister as their top choice, so I would imagine the waiting list doesn't move as much as DD or the CRTP waitlist. I think a big advantage to the Cloister program is that you get to live with the other scholars and really get to know them well. Also, the Monday night lecture series (where internationally recognized scientists come discuss their research and pathways to success) is amazing. While I was at the Cloister, I probably met around 10 nobel laureates. Ultimately though, each program has their own strengths and weaknesses. I am willing to bet that 10 to 15 years post "research year" grads of all the programs are doing equally well and equally successful.

Hi,

I am basically posting so that people can PM if they have questions about the Cloister program, because I spent 2006-2007 there. I am currently a third year med student. From my experience in talking to other applicants, most people who apply to multiple programs tend to prefer the Cloister as their top choice, so I would imagine the waiting list doesn't move as much as DD or the CRTP waitlist. I think a big advantage to the Cloister program is that you get to live with the other scholars and really get to know them well. Also, the Monday night lecture series (where internationally recognized scientists come discuss their research and pathways to success) is amazing. While I was at the Cloister, I probably met around 10 nobel laureates. Ultimately though, each program has their own strengths and weaknesses. I am willing to bet that 10 to 15 years post "research year" grads of all the programs are doing equally well and equally successful.

thanks...very helpful. anyone aware of any movement yet on any of the alternate lists? crtp or cloisters? or any second offers yet from DDs? i'm sure once people make decisions on their initial offers (probably soon assuming acceptance to first choice) there will be quite a chain reaction

ugh! so tired of waiting! :o

I declined my offers to UIowa and UTSW, so a spot has opened in each of those programs. I am happily going to my top choice next year, UCSF!! :hardy: Anyone else going to San Francisco next year??

Does anyone have a copy of the questions for the NIH CRTP application?

They close the online application between seasons, but I will be real busy on Gyn during the next season. It'd be handy to get the questions ahead of time.

Does anyone have a copy of the questions for the NIH CRTP application?

They close the online application between seasons, but I will be real busy on Gyn during the next season. It'd be handy to get the questions ahead of time.

I think it asked for your name, address, recommenders, grades and classes and then just asked for a personal statement about why research, why the program and what type of research you might be interested in. The word limit was 10,000.

I think it asked for your name, address, recommenders, grades and classes and then just asked for a personal statement about why research, why the program and what type of research you might be interested in. The word limit was 10,000.OK, thanks. I thought it was something more involved, but that part of my memory must have been pushed out in favor of some cardio lectures. :laugh: I'm going to have a hard time lining everything up during the app season, so thanks for helping me get my ducks in a row now. :thumbup:

Has anyone gotten an offer off of the waitlist for any DDCRF schools?

d

Has there been any movement for the NIH-Crtp list yet?

Hi,

I am basically posting so that people can PM if they have questions about the Cloister program, because I spent 2006-2007 there. I am currently a third year med student. From my experience in talking to other applicants, most people who apply to multiple programs tend to prefer the Cloister as their top choice, so I would imagine the waiting list doesn't move as much as DD or the CRTP waitlist. I think a big advantage to the Cloister program is that you get to live with the other scholars and really get to know them well. Also, the Monday night lecture series (where internationally recognized scientists come discuss their research and pathways to success) is amazing. While I was at the Cloister, I probably met around 10 nobel laureates. Ultimately though, each program has their own strengths and weaknesses. I am willing to bet that 10 to 15 years post "research year" grads of all the programs are doing equally well and equally successful.I had a series of questions that I asked several other past program participants. Would you mind answering the following?

Where are you now in the program?

What was the the series of events that made up your application process, with respect to both the NIH and your 3rd year rotations?

How did you identify who to work with?

Are the clinical aspects of the program worthwhile, or are they a waste of time?

Did you think it is worth it? That is, what were your goals in participating in the program, and have you been able to achieve them so far?

What was it about your application and interview that you feel got you a spot?

I've been collecting these and putting them in the FAQ section for year-off programs. Thanks in advance.

Excellent FAQ section, RxnMan.

Excellent FAQ section, RxnMan.Thanks. You think of any additions - things I should add - and I'll add another section.

I received an email from Pitt that said, they wanted to figure out who was still interested in Pitt. Out of the 2 external offers, one was accepted while the other person elected to do research at NIH instead. Therefore, they have 1 external spot open.

Today is the deadline for decisions - what fellowship options did everyone end up going with?

It was a brutally hard decision for me, but it looks like I'll be heading to the Cloister next year, so I'll look forward to living with some of you in Bethesda in a few months.

Today is the deadline for decisions - what fellowship options did everyone end up going with?

It was a brutally hard decision for me, but it looks like I'll be heading to the Cloister next year, so I'll look forward to living with some of you in Bethesda in a few months.

It's Cloisters for me as well. See you there Reimat.

d

-----------------

Hey All -

I'm a 2nd year med student looking to take a year off to do research after my third year. Can anyone that has gotten into these programs comment on what sorts of things they think made their application strong? My adviser recently told me that for the cloister previous, ongoing basic science research makes a big difference in getting an interview.

Any tips would be helpful! Thanks!

Hey All -

I'm a 2nd year med student looking to take a year off to do research after my third year. Can anyone that has gotten into these programs comment on what sorts of things they think made their application strong? My adviser recently told me that for the cloister previous, ongoing basic science research makes a big difference in getting an interview.

Any tips would be helpful! Thanks!


Hey there,

I am finishing up my year at the Cloister and will actually be sticking around for another year so hopefully I can share some wisdom with you. My application experience: I applied after a small summer research project during second year of med school looking at ischemia/reperfusion injury in mice, no pubs, no posters, etc. I was rejected that first time and decided to reapply during third year after I had had some clinical experience and could better articulate my research and career interests in my personal statement. I worked on my PS off-and-on for several months and had several professors look it over. I was not actively doing ANY research that second time but ended up getting an interview and was later accepted. I think it certainly helps to have a hand in some ongoing project but it is not essential. In terms of basic vs. clinical research, again I don’t think it matters a great deal in terms of getting an interview but be aware that most of the Cloister students work on a basic science project and they will certainly stress that to you during the interview.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions, I hope that helped. :thumbup:

Hey All -

I'm a 2nd year med student looking to take a year off to do research after my third year. Can anyone that has gotten into these programs comment on what sorts of things they think made their application strong? My adviser recently told me that for the cloister previous, ongoing basic science research makes a big difference in getting an interview.

Any tips would be helpful! Thanks!Take a look at the Research FAQ (link in my sig). I've been sending out a standard questionnaire (including what made your application strong) to people doing year-off research programs. At the bottom of the FAQ I've compiled the responses.

Thanks. You think of any additions - things I should add - and I'll add another section.

This may be pretty difficult, I'm not sure, but what if we compile a list of deadlines for submitting abstracts for national meetings?

This may be pretty difficult, I'm not sure, but what if we compile a list of deadlines for submitting abstracts for national meetings?That's a good idea. Off the top of my head I can think of some challenges associated with that. I'm going to start another thread (click here to go there (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6494787#post6494787)) so that this one can remain on-track for the year-off'ers.

Apparently Iowa's DD didn't fill... I got an email from them today asking if I was interested in their program, despite the fact that I didn't apply.

Has anyone come up with any study plans for Step 2 during the year off? I will be taking the year off in DDCF and hope to take the boards during this time. Anyone else having the same idea? If so, when are you planning to take it? Or if you have done so, when did you take it? Thanks.

Has anyone come up with any study plans for Step 2 during the year off? I will be taking the year off in DDCF and hope to take the boards during this time. Anyone else having the same idea? If so, when are you planning to take it? Or if you have done so, when did you take it? Thanks.Most folks I've spoken to have done their DDCRF after their 3rd year clinicals, so they take step II shortly after they start the program.

Most folks I've spoken to have done their DDCRF after their 3rd year clinicals, so they take step II shortly after they start the program.

I've heard people say that the research year is an excellent time to study for step 2, especially if you're doing bench research and have significant downtime. I'm planning on taking mine just before I graduate so residency programs won't see my score.

Thanks for your help. Good luck in your programs. :thumbup:

Anyone hear anything back from Iowa DD?

I have a random question - what do people at the CRTP program do about their pets? Is it ok to bring a cat or dog to the subsidized housing?

I have a random question - what do people at the CRTP program do about their pets? Is it ok to bring a cat or dog to the subsidized housing?

The info we got yesterday says no pets allowed, although I guess you probably already know that now.

Hello everybody,

First of all, thank you to those people who turned down the CRTP so little ol' me could get in off of the waitlist on the last day!:love:

Secondly, regarding housing -
Did anybody who interviewed for the CRTP check out the apartments? My main question is what are they like? As in what furniture do they provide, dishes, etc.?

Thank you!:hardy:

Secondly, regarding housing -
Did anybody who interviewed for the CRTP check out the apartments? My main question is what are they like? As in what furniture do they provide, dishes, etc.?

Thank you!:hardy:

Bump, anyone have an answer? I was too tired to go on the housing tour.

Anyone here with acceptances to both the Cloister and something else and have decided to take the something else? Any particular reasons???

Hello everybody,

First of all, thank you to those people who turned down the CRTP so little ol' me could get in off of the waitlist on the last day!:love:

Secondly, regarding housing -
Did anybody who interviewed for the CRTP check out the apartments? My main question is what are they like? As in what furniture do they provide, dishes, etc.?

Thank you!:hardy:

Couch, bed, dinner table, coffee table, dishes, utensils. That's all I remember.

Anyone here with acceptances to both the Cloister and something else and have decided to take the something else? Any particular reasons???

I did end up picking Cloisters, but I think there are a number of reasons to pick other fellowships. 2 examples I can think of include: 1) If you're much more interested in clinical research, you're probably better off doing a DD/CRTP fellowship. 2) If you know you want to do cardiology/CT surgery, you'd be a fool to not do the Sarnoff fellowship.

Anyone know when Cloisters people will start hearing about room assignments? I'm really hoping to get one of the cheap dorm-style rooms :D

has anyone heard anything back from unc doris duke?

As the year-off programs begin to accept applications for the 2009-2010 year, I wanted to resurrect this thread.

For future applicants - I'll try to keep you informed about the process (app -> interview -> acceptance? :scared:).

For current applicants - I will be applying this year - is anyone else?

For former participants in the DDCRF, HHMI-Cloisters, HHMI-Scholars, CDC, Fogarty, Sarnoff, CRTP and others - feel free to write in about your experiences through the application process and during your year off.

I will be an applicant for the 2009-2010 cycle.

I'll be applying for DDCF (only 2-3 schools however) and CRTP

I'm applying for crtp and probably cloisters as well.

I'm looking through the NIH clinical trials website (http://intramural.nih.gov/search/index.tml) and I keep getting a "cannot load page" message. Are you all getting the same thing, or is it my laptop?

It's working fine for me.

It's working fine for me.Huh. I guess I'll have to try looking on another computer, or on a different connection (our school's firewall may be blocking the site).

Now on an alternate connection. Definitely the firewall. Thanks.

So what all research areas are you guys interested in?

Now on an alternate connection. Definitely the firewall. Thanks.

So what all research areas are you guys interested in?

Neuro probably something within stroke or neurocritical care. You guys?

I have a background in chemical engineering, and I'd like to get back to that. Something phys-heavy like sepsis, reperfusion injury, ARDS, or shock.

hi. how competitive are these research fellowships? i go to a med school that's not very well known, and my grades aren't the best. do i have a shot? also, is it possible/wise to apply even if you have no clue what field you want to go into?

hi. how competitive are these research fellowships? i go to a med school that's not very well known, and my grades aren't the best. do i have a shot? also, is it possible/wise to apply even if you have no clue what field you want to go into?I go to an unknown school, and I have no idea of what field I want to go into. We send a person to one of the programs (HHMI-Cloisters, CRTP) every few years. Check the FAQ for what successful apps looked like.

For %'s I think ~60% of the yeary 90 applicants to the CRTP are offered a spot. HHMI-Cloisters is closer to 30-40% (fewer spots, more applicants [~200/yr from more fields])

Ugh. Working through my app essay. My reviewer basically said my 1st draft went over like a lead ballon. Oh well, better now than getting rejected, eh?

How is everyone else? Got your LOR writers in order?

99% done with the app essay. Just need to finalize my opening hook.

Letter-writers lined up. One is ready to submit, one is writing, and the other...I have to hammer on him...:rolleyes: :laugh:

So I am considering doing one of the year long research programs (Cloisters etc.), which one of these programs require you to live in their housing? (what do if you don't want to because you have a significant other that would be coming with you? Do they provide housing if you are bringing your wife/husband?) Thanks in advance for any insight people have.

...which one of these programs require you to live in their housing? (what do if you don't want to because you have a significant other that would be coming with you? Do they provide housing if you are bringing your wife/husband?) Thanks in advance for any insight people have.The Cloisters and CRTP programs require that you live in their on-campus housing. In their brochures they state that couples get priority for their single-bedroom units. DDCRF and HHMI Research Fellows are all attached to whatever institution they are working at, but they don't have required housing.

For those applying and have an SO, I suggest starting the conversation early, giving them as much information as you have, and being open to what they want.

99% done with the app essay. Just need to finalize my opening hook.

Letter-writers lined up. One is ready to submit, one is writing, and the other...I have to hammer on him...:rolleyes: :laugh:

I am also ~99% complete with my personal statement. I have started filling out the application for HHMI and have my letter writers lined up and they are working on the letters.

So I am considering doing one of the year long research programs (Cloisters etc.), which one of these programs require you to live in their housing? (what do if you don't want to because you have a significant other that would be coming with you? Do they provide housing if you are bringing your wife/husband?) Thanks in advance for any insight people have.


Ditto what RxnMan said Re: Cloisters, CRTP, DDCRF and HHMI. The Sarnoff Fellowship also lets you choose your own housing.

I am about done with my personal statement but with a month to go am debating having someone read it again. On the one hand, I do not want to get crushed, on the other hand it beats rejection any day.

2 out 3 LORs in for Cloisters, everything finished for Doris Duke and CRTP except the dean's letter and putting together each school's package.

I hit the submit button on CRTP yesterday. One LOR has already been added (NIH uses an email system).

I was planning on putting together a "how to" on preparing an application. Anyone who wants to add their thoughts RE: DDCRF and HHMI, please PM me and I'll put together a new post for the FAQ.

I hit the submit button on CRTP yesterday. One LOR has already been added (NIH uses an email system)...Correction: 2 LORs already in! :eek:

I hit the submit button on CRTP yesterday. One LOR has already been added (NIH uses an email system).

I was planning on putting together a "how to" on preparing an application. Anyone who wants to add their thoughts RE: DDCRF and HHMI, please PM me and I'll put together a new post for the FAQ.

I could add some thoughts once everything is submitted. :thumbup:

I'm curious which Doris Duke programs people are applying to?

I hit the submit button on CRTP yesterday. One LOR has already been added (NIH uses an email system).

I was planning on putting together a "how to" on preparing an application. Anyone who wants to add their thoughts RE: DDCRF and HHMI, please PM me and I'll put together a new post for the FAQ.

I will send you what I have as soon I as get to the weekend :sleep:

I could add some thoughts once everything is submitted. :thumbup:

I'm curious which Doris Duke programs people are applying to?

UNC, Iowa, and UTSW

For anyone who has already submitted their CRTP application, did you use up the entire/close to the entire 10000 character limit for your PS?

For anyone who has already submitted their CRTP application, did you use up the entire/close to the entire 10000 character limit for your PS?I used ~6k characters.

I think I'm going to finish around 7.25-7.5K but my goal was around 6K. I didn't think I'd even make that, to be honest. 10,000 characters is way way too much.

I just finalized my application to Cloisters and confirmed that my letters are in. I'm only applying to Cloisters because I like the community aspect of it. Good luck everyone.

Sarnoff= done
7 DD programs= done
HHMI-NIH= done
HHMI-MSTP= just a few more things to do with the proposal before I submit

How is everyone else doing?

Wow, 7 DD apps? Doesn't each require its own research proposal? I am in awe.
...finalizing cloisters & crtp apps...

Wow, 7 DD apps? Doesn't each require its own research proposal? I am in awe.
...finalizing cloisters & crtp apps...

Luckily not every DD I applied to requires a research proposal. Of the ones I applied to only 2 required a proposal, and 1 program said it would help my application by showing I was strongly interested in their program rather than just "checking off" their program on the application. However some of the other programs encouraged me to include a letter specifically to their program about possible projects/mentors that I might be interested in if I was accepted. So I wrote one of those for 3 of the other programs. This is mostly because the personal statement goes to every program so you don't really have a chance to say why one particular programs stands out to you.

Let me say that I am happy I started looking into programs this past summer. I basically spent my whole winter break working on apps, research proposals, abstracts, personal statement...etc. :(

Do you guys have any "number 1" programs that you hope you get accepted into, or will you wait until after the interview to get a feel for the program? I have 2 places that I theoretically like the most on paper, but guess my opinion might change if I get interviews at multiple programs.

...I basically spent my whole winter break working on apps, research proposals, abstracts, personal statement...etc. :(Same for me, only I spent all of OB/Gyn writing essays and getting LORs. :thumbdown

Do you guys have any "number 1" programs that you hope you get accepted into, or will you wait until after the interview to get a feel for the program? I have 2 places that I theoretically like the most on paper, but guess my opinion might change if I get interviews at multiple programs.I only applied to the CRTP, so that would be both my last and first choice. :laugh: Most of the DDs were in high cost-of-living cities or where I didn't want to live. I didn't apply to HHMI because it didn't have the right research focus and I wasn't interested in their 'enrichment activities.'

The CRTP was the only program that had the classes, structure, city, housing, clinical focus, and research opportunities I wanted. :cool:

I only applied to the CRTP, so that would be both my last and first choice. :laugh: Most of the DDs were in high cost-of-living cities or where I didn't want to live. I didn't apply to HHMI because it didn't have the right research focus and I wasn't interested in their 'enrichment activities.'

The CRTP was the only program that had the classes, structure, city, housing, clinical focus, and research opportunities I wanted. :cool:

Have you considered the NIH Year off Program? It has an open deadline:
http://www.training.nih.gov/student/pre-irta/previewinterim.asp

Submitted the Cloisters app today and finishing up the HHMI Medical Fellows application right now. These applications are quite long!

Not sure if this has been discussed before. Has anyone considered doing a postdoc after 4th year as opposed to one of the conventional fellowships in between 3rd and 4th year?

I applied for the HHMI this year, and my PI presented me with this option. Postdoc seems to pay more though I'm not sure whether it would be a disadvantage to apply to residency as an MD grad. Any thoughts?

Not sure if this has been discussed before. Has anyone considered doing a postdoc after 4th year as opposed to one of the conventional fellowships in between 3rd and 4th year?

I applied for the HHMI this year, and my PI presented me with this option. Postdoc seems to pay more though I'm not sure whether it would be a disadvantage to apply to residency as an MD grad. Any thoughts?

That could work. But what about the issue of taking a year off between what should be the period that you focus on your clinical training? Not sure how big of an issue it will be with all the momentum you build during your 3rd and 4th year and then take a year off and work in a lab and try to get back into your clinical training in residency? It might be worth talking to some people who have gone this route and ask their opinion. Or you could wait for after residency/fellowship to do one?

Not sure if this has been discussed before. Has anyone considered doing a postdoc after 4th year as opposed to one of the conventional fellowships in between 3rd and 4th year?

An advantage to taking a year between 2nd and 3rd or 3rd and 4th years is that you have a higher probability of completing substantial work before residencies offer and conduct interviews. The few people I've met that have taken a post-grad year did so because they either didn't feel they were strong enough to match into their competitive field or failed to match previously. I'm not saying that's you, but that's just what I've heard anecdotally.

apart from the hhmi program, is anyone aware of other programs/funding opportunities that let you do a 1 year stint at a place of your choosing?

apart from the hhmi program, is anyone aware of other programs/funding opportunities that let you do a 1 year stint at a place of your choosing?

Sarnoff and AHA are two that I know of.

Sarnoff and AHA are two that I know of.

Ah yes, but I those are cardiovascular specific I believe.

Anything non specific, or if it were specific, in cancer research?

Ah yes, but I those are cardiovascular specific I believe.

Anything non specific, or if it were specific, in cancer research?

The CDC also has a 1yr fellowship. Not sure of anything specific to cancer. American Cancer Society probably has one, but most likely will be a Post-Doc fellowship.

...I applied for the HHMI this year, and my PI presented me with this option. Postdoc seems to pay more though I'm not sure whether it would be a disadvantage to apply to residency as an MD grad. Any thoughts?There are significant disadvantages to not entering the Match right after graduation. 4th year US medical students have the highest match rates of any population applying to residency. Your PI (presumably a PhD) wouldn't know this. You would have to address this issue with your school (extend your enrollment so that you would graduate after your post-doc).

On a related note, my school would designate my time as educational and not charge me tuition (as opposed to a leave of abscence). LOAs are reserved for folks who need time off for personal reasons or for poor academic performance. This way my transcript looks spotless and I avoid messy questions during residency interviews. :cool:

Have you considered the NIH Year off Program? It has an open deadline:
http://www.training.nih.gov/student/pre-irta/previewinterim.aspYeah, but it doesn't have the classes and the support that I think are required.

I've said it elsewhere (in the FAQ?), but I firmly believe that the best research training programs are ones that are pretty formalized. They should have classes, lots of director oversight, direct research mentorship, and specific goals for all participants (i.e., everyone presents at least a poster by the end of the year). These factors show, in part, the host institution's dedication to the program. It also shows how much they value the participants, and demonstrates the tangible benefits of being there.

Which is why I didn't apply for HHMI - yeah, you get lots of bench experience. But no structure. I've done that before (I have a MS,) and 1) it wasn't fun, 2) it wasn't educational. I'm too old and too experienced to think of commiting a year without it being worth my time. :laugh: I thought the CRTP was the safest bet out there.

An advantage to taking a year between 2nd and 3rd or 3rd and 4th years is that you have a higher probability of completing substantial work before residencies offer and conduct interviews. The few people I've met that have taken a post-grad year did so because they either didn't feel they were strong enough to match into their competitive field or failed to match previously. I'm not saying that's you, but that's just what I've heard anecdotally.These are also good points. Kinda like I said above, taking time off from school and training is not the norm, and is generally done for less than desirable reasons. You do not want to be lumped in that population.

apart from the hhmi program, is anyone aware of other programs/funding opportunities that let you do a 1 year stint at a place of your choosing?Yes. Try the Fogarty fellowship program. We have a student who is in Japan now.

The CDC also has a 1yr fellowship. Not sure of anything specific to cancer. American Cancer Society probably has one, but most likely will be a Post-Doc fellowship.The CDC's fellowship takes place in Atlanta - you can't go anywhere else. Check the FAQ for details and website.

They should have classes, lots of director oversight, direct research mentorship, and specific goals for all participants (i.e., everyone presents at least a poster by the end of the year).

I agree that your mentor should be an integral part of your research experience with direct and frequent contact, and that there should be a specific goal for all participants. Hopefully more than just a poster. That would be sad if all your research only amounted to a poster. At least to me that would spell failure. Anything less than at least one first author paper is less than ideal imho.

In my opinion regarding the classes; I think less classes the better. I think the year should be about learning how to do good research. While you can "learn" about it (more like hear about it) in class, there is no better way than actually being in the lab and learning hands on and working around problems that arise with the project. A stats class is probably the most worth while class. But other than that I think it is a waste of time. A residency program won't care that you took class x,y,z and only got a poster at the end of one year. They care about publications, plain and simple. No better way than to jump right in and focus completely on the research aspect. But luckily there are multiple programs that tailor to each of our interests and preferences. :D

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of this:

While I hope the HHMI works out, I spent quite a bit of time writing this proposal, so to tweak this proposal and send it out to other organizations/funding opportunities might not be a bad idea. Unfortunately, many of the ones I have come across are either only for md/phd students, for specific areas of research (i.e. cardio), or require you to work at a specific location (nih, a list of "participating schools", international, cdc, etc.)

So what I'm looking for: is there something just like the HHMI where I can pick an institution stateside, and submit a proposal to get funded for a year off with no restrictions... or if there are, that I would qualify for: an MD student doing cancer research (with a proposal in hand).

Perhaps I should make a different thread so other people with "getting funding experience" could chime in...?

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of this:

While I hope the HHMI works out, I spent quite a bit of time writing this proposal, so to tweak this proposal and send it out to other organizations/funding opportunities might not be a bad idea. Unfortunately, many of the ones I have come across are either only for md/phd students, for specific areas of research (i.e. cardio), or require you to work at a specific location (nih, a list of "participating schools", international, cdc, etc.)

So what I'm looking for: is there something just like the HHMI where I can pick an institution stateside, and submit a proposal to get funded for a year off with no restrictions... or if there are, that I would qualify for: an MD student doing cancer research (with a proposal in hand).

Perhaps I should make a different thread so other people with "getting funding experience" could chime in...?

I recommend reading the FAQ section, posts #8-16. I think it gives a great overview of all of the programs. The only other program that I am familiar with that was left out was the AHA and the NIH Year off Program.

I agree that your mentor should be an integral part of your research experience with direct and frequent contact, and that there should be a specific goal for all participants. Hopefully more than just a poster. That would be sad if all your research only amounted to a poster. At least to me that would spell failure. Anything less than at least one first author paper is less than ideal imho...OK, we all want that 1st-authorship that is featured on the front of Science. Maybe my example set the bar too low, but you get my meaning - you want some product at the end of things to say that you did something.

Oh, and the IRTA is in the FAQ - check #15. But I'll try to add the AHA when I have the time...and I remember. :laugh:

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of this:...So what I'm looking for: is there something just like the HHMI where I can pick an institution stateside, and submit a proposal to get funded for a year off with no restrictions... or if there are, that I would qualify for: an MD student doing cancer research (with a proposal in hand)...I had a whole response written saying that you'd need to wait until reseidency, but there is the HHMI-Research Scholars program. HHMI will fund you to go to a institution and work with a mentor on a project of your devising. You have to have a proposal and the permission of your host mentor. Check the FAQ for Pinkertinkle's posts.

OK, we all want that 1st-authorship that is featured on the front of Science. Maybe my example set the bar too low, but you get my meaning - you want some product at the end of things to say that you did something.


I understood what you meant. I just feel, at least for myself and my goals, that this year off is to focus on research. My goal is to do research, learn how to do research, be productive during the year (get some pubs), have fun, learn something, and see if academic medicine is for me. A few of the programs have quite extensive didactic course work. Some people might really enjoy that and want that. I just think it is important for someone to determine what they want out of the fellowship experience since each program offers something a little different from the same mold.

I had a whole response written saying that you'd need to wait until reseidency, but there is the HHMI-Research Scholars program. HHMI will fund you to go to a institution and work with a mentor on a project of your devising. You have to have a proposal and the permission of your host mentor. Check the FAQ for Pinkertinkle's posts.

Right, I am well aware of that program, as I indicated in my response. Is there anything that is pretty much identical to the HHMI research scholars program, but that is offered by another institution (NOT Sarnoff - not doing cards research, or NOT Doris duke, Cloisters, nor CDC, etc. b/c that limits where I can work)

Right, I am well aware of that program, as I indicated in my response. Is there anything that is pretty much identical to the HHMI research scholars program, but that is offered by another institution (NOT Sarnoff - not doing cards research, or NOT Doris duke, Cloisters, nor CDC, etc. b/c that limits where I can work)

I think you basically know your answer from the posts regarding this. All of the programs are listed in the FAQ, and as you know the HHMI is the only one that you can select your project topic and location. If you find another one please add it to the list, but I am unfamiliar with one.

Right, I am well aware of that program, as I indicated in my response. Is there anything that is pretty much identical to the HHMI research scholars program, but that is offered by another institution (NOT Sarnoff - not doing cards research, or NOT Doris duke, Cloisters, nor CDC, etc. b/c that limits where I can work)Sorry - frequently when people refer to HHMI, they mean the Cloisters program in Bethesda, not Research Scholars. I glossed over that.

As is, only independent funding will give you the freedom you're describing.

Helpful information indeed, thanks everyone.

I only applied to the CRTP, so that would be both my last and first choice. :laugh: Most of the DDs were in high cost-of-living cities or where I didn't want to live. I didn't apply to HHMI because it didn't have the right research focus and I wasn't interested in their 'enrichment activities.'

The CRTP was the only program that had the classes, structure, city, housing, clinical focus, and research opportunities I wanted. :cool:

You know Bethesda and DC are really expensive, right? We pay $935/mo this year for half of a 2Br/2Ba apt. Sure to go up next year, but apparently the pay is also increasing. Comes out to about 40% of your paycheck.

You know Bethesda and DC are really expensive, right? We pay $935/mo this year for half of a 2Br/2Ba apt. Sure to go up next year, but apparently the pay is also increasing. Comes out to about 40% of your paycheck.I knew that CRTP pays the most of the programs, but I didn't know, though not for lack of trying, that the rent was that high.

I knew that CRTP pays the most of the programs, but I didn't know, though not for lack of trying, that the rent was that high.

Yeah honestly I'm not even sure that they told us that on interview day... I don't think I found out until I decided to come (although I'm sure if I had asked on interview day, one of the students would have told me). Anyway, our stipend is $30,200 + $1,200 computer stipend. I think next year it's going to be $33,000, but no computer stipend. Rent increased $15/month from last year I think, so next year's class will probably be looking at $950-960/month for the 2br/2ba.

diosa - the CRTP salary is taxable though, right? How much do you typically take home a month after taxes? Thanks!

diosa - the CRTP salary is taxable though, right? How much do you typically take home a month after taxes? Thanks!

So the NIH doesn't take out the taxes but the stipend is taxable. Which means we get some form in Jan (W-40? I'm not sure) and they report the income to the government, and you have to go see a tax person to determine how much you owe in taxes. The amount varies person to person, because it's a fellowship and technically the only taxable portion is the amount you make in the calendar year (ie, Jan 08 - Dec 08, which is only half of your stipend, or around $15k) minus the amount of tuition you paid in that calendar year... or so I've been told. So what you're supposed to do is see a tax person before the start of the year to figure out how much you're going to owe come April, and then save that money so that you can pay your taxes, rather than having it come out of your stipend and then filing and getting money back. Sorry it's complicated, but you will find that dealing with the government usually is, apparently.

However, if you find yourself in need of money, there are plenty of studies going on at the NIH and you can be a "healthy volunteer" and get paid for it... which can be quite lucrative if you can find the studies that require the least amount of time and the most money...

I am a second-year student who applied for HHMI and am wondering if the research that I propose to do this year needs to be related to the specialty I pursue in the future. The reason I even ask is that I just saw a presentation from my medical school advisors who said that the research you do really needs to be in line with the field you eventually decide upon, especially if the field is competitive. He even mentioned a bizarre case of a student who decided on a competitive specialty late in his clinical years and hence took a second year off (!) since the research he did during his HHMI year was in a vastly different field. Then again, this is a very research-intensive medical school, so I am not sure if such advice would be typical. I primarily chose my advisor because I've been working in his lab for a long time, he's an excellent mentor, and it has been very productive experience. Thanks.

I'm not sure this is the place to ask that question as it generally depends on the field. Some very competitive fields do really prefer to see research in their fields. How mandatory/important this is is up for debate although some fields (like rad onc) it's considered to be a given. Most fields don't care as long as it's good research.

I am a second-year student who applied for HHMI and am wondering if the research that I propose to do this year needs to be related to the specialty I pursue in the future...I don't believe so. I might have covered this in the FAQ, but many students don't know what they want to do until after 3rd year. Most students change their mind on what they want to go into over their time in school. It's nice to have it link up, but I don't believe it has to. Most PDs, I think, would be more happy to see the HHMI on your CV than anything.

You could also pick a project in a broad field - like HTN - which affects all organ systems, which can be spun into relating somewhere in most fields.

This just in - I spoke to the CRTP program coordinator, and he told me that there were ~120 apps this year and they planned to interview ~60. A bit of a bump up in # of apps from last year (~90).

I was looking for some helpful info. I'm traveling out of the country for a medical volunteer trip during my spring break, which is March 5th-15th.

I know acceptance notifications for DDCF and HHMI programs are sent out around March 20th or so. I am more worried about the possibility of getting a call from a DDCF director (like UTSW) or something when I'm out of the country.

Does anyone roughly know when phones calls are made/when interviews are typically conducted for DDCF and HHMI cloister?

I was looking for some helpful info. I'm traveling out of the country for a medical volunteer trip during my spring break, which is March 5th-15th.

I know acceptance notifications for DDCF and HHMI programs are sent out around March 20th or so. I am more worried about the possibility of getting a call from a DDCF director (like UTSW) or something when I'm out of the country.

Does anyone roughly know when phones calls are made/when interviews are typically conducted for DDCF and HHMI cloister?

I believe that the HHMI- Cloister's program interviews in early March according to their website. I also believe that the DDCF programs that require interviews do those sometime in early March. This might not even be an issue if you don't make the first cut. If you do make the first cut and go on to be interviewed, then you might have something to worry about since these programs also have deadlines to meet. Depending when in early March they interview, you might miss the interview and would basically be coming back right when the notifications were sent out. Can you cancel the trip if you were notified you had an interview?

Judging from the posts from last year, Cloister interviews were offered on successive weekends in the first half of march which unfortunately seems to conflict w/ your dates. DDCF phone interviews,if offered, seemed to be pretty random. Sorry I don't have better news! I'd recommend calling the programs and discussing your situation to see if they could make sure to call you before you left or even do the phone interview internationally. You could talk to HHMI to confirm the interview weekend dates - I don't know how you're going to get around that but maybe they have a solution (or maybe it's not a conflict at all). Best of luck.

edit: arrgh, beaten by HarveyCushing. =)

Judging from the posts from last year, Cloister interviews were offered on successive weekends in the first half of march which unfortunately seems to conflict w/ your dates. DDCF phone interviews,if offered, seemed to be pretty random. Sorry I don't have better news! I'd recommend calling the programs and discussing your situation to see if they could make sure to call you before you left or even do the phone interview internationally. You could talk to HHMI to confirm the interview weekend dates - I don't know how you're going to get around that but maybe they have a solution (or maybe it's not a conflict at all). Best of luck.

edit: arrgh, beaten by HarveyCushing. =)

I agree with socmob, give the programs a call to let them know your situation and see if something could be worked out if you were interviewed. Good luck!

I called HHMI. The Cloister program is sending out interview notifications on February 10th. Interview weekends are going to be March 5-6 and then 12-13.

I only applied to the CRTP, so that would be both my last and first choice. :laugh: Most of the DDs were in high cost-of-living cities or where I didn't want to live. I didn't apply to HHMI because it didn't have the right research focus and I wasn't interested in their 'enrichment activities.'

Rxnman, I think you made a serious error in judgement. First of all, in terms of cost of living, the Cloister is subsidized more than CRTP housing, so housing costs a lot less. Second, I'm not sure what "research focus" or "enrichment activities" you're referring to, but HHMI lets you do any kind of research you want, whereas CRTP, in theory, would limit you because you must choose a clinical or translational project. With HHMI, you can do basic, clinical, or translational or anything in between. If you're talking about the Monday night dinners with nobel laureates, I'm scratching my head wondering why you wouldn't be interested in that. If you're talking about the Thursday night dinners, with more free food, those have been a great opportunity to get to know each other and their research. I can't imagine those being a problem for you.

The CRTP was the only program that had the classes, structure, city, housing, clinical focus, and research opportunities I wanted. :cool:

This one I'm really stumped on. You can take the same classes as the CRTP if you want (god only knows why you'd want to) and HHMI will pay for them and the books. HHMI has just as much structure as the rest with the exception that you can choose any kind of research that you wish. HHMI is in the same city. Housing is cheaper and a 2min walk to work with HHMI. "Clinical focus" is a negative because you're limited in what research project you choose. And again, both have the same research opportunities (whatever exists at the NIH) except the fact that you're not limited with HHMI.

Which is why I didn't apply for HHMI - yeah, you get lots of bench experience. But no structure. I've done that before (I have a MS,) and 1) it wasn't fun, 2) it wasn't educational. I'm too old and too experienced to think of commiting a year without it being worth my time. I thought the CRTP was the safest bet out there.

Lots of bench experience with no structure? I'm not even sure where you're getting that. You can do as much bench work as you want. Some people do none, some do a lot. What structure are you talking about?

Lastly, just to clear something up:
"Cloister program" = HHMI Research Scholars Program
"Med fellows" = HHMI Research Training Fellowship

Rxnman, I think you made a serious error in judgement...Well, why don't you tell me how you really feel? :laugh:

...First of all, in terms of cost of living, the Cloister is subsidized more than CRTP housing, so housing costs a lot less...I didn't know this, as I stated above. The CRTP brochure talks about required housing - I assumed it was the same as the HHMI required housing. My mistake.

...Second, I'm not sure what "research focus" or "enrichment activities" you're referring to...You can take the same classes as the CRTP if you want (god only knows why you'd want to) and HHMI will pay for them and the books...Again, I refer to the CRTP brochure (http://www.cc.nih.gov/training/crtp/CRTPBook2008.pdf). I wanted the classes listed in the CRTP academic program (IPPCR). I don't believe that HHMI offers the IPPCR class sequence. And the CRTP will pay for you to take additional classes through FAES if you want, just like HHMI.

..."Clinical focus" is a negative because you're limited in what research project you choose...I went into medicine, in part, because I wanted to clinical research. Being 'limited' to translational and clinical projects just isn't an issue for me.

...If you're talking about the Monday night dinners with nobel laureates, I'm scratching my head wondering why you wouldn't be interested in that. If you're talking about the Thursday night dinners, with more free food, those have been a great opportunity to get to know each other and their research. I can't imagine those being a problem for you...CRTP folks are able to participate in the Nobel laureate dinners. The CRTP has it's own clinical research seminar/dinner too.

...Lots of bench experience with no structure? I'm not even sure where you're getting that. You can do as much bench work as you want. Some people do none, some do a lot...Nearly every person who has posted about the HHMI has talked about doing basic science.

...What structure are you talking about?...With respect to structure, when I was looking at programs, the CRTP alums had experiences much closer to what I wanted - some clinic time, some lab time, some class time. I didn't get the same feel when I looked at HHMI. In fact, I felt that the focus was solely on the lab. You guys see that as a plus - I get it! - but my experience is that unrestricted lab time becomes lab time, all the time. I've been there, done that, and I wanted something different for my year out.

Folks, don't confuse a difference of opinion with an insult. I had specific and high standards in what I wanted for a research year out, and only the CRTP met them.

I didn't know this, as I stated above. The CRTP brochure talks about required housing - I assumed it was the same as the HHMI required housing. My mistake.

Okay, so just FYI: only the HHMI RSP aka "Cloister" scholars live in the Cloister building on the NIH campus and it is well-subsidized. So is the CRTP housing BTW, just not as much. CRTP live in apartments off campus that are furnished and very nice. Housing is great with either program. With HHMI, it's nice having the 2min commute to my lab across the street.

Again, I refer to the CRTP brochure (http://www.cc.nih.gov/training/crtp/CRTPBook2008.pdf). I wanted the classes listed in the CRTP academic program (IPPCR). I don't believe that HHMI offers the IPPCR class sequence. And the CRTP will pay for you to take additional classes through FAES if you want, just like HHMI.

Anyone at the NIH can take the IPPCR sequence and get the certificate. Brochures for it are on every bulletin board in bldg 10. And yes, HHMI will pay for it and the books. Other classes on top of that can be approved.

CRTP folks are able to participate in the Nobel laureate dinners. The CRTP has it's own clinical research seminar/dinner too.

No argument there. I was just trying to clear up what "enrichment activities" you were talking about (I'm still not sure). The CRTP fellows can come to the HHMI dinners and if extra seminars are on your list of priorities, the NIH has a hundred per week outside of these programs that you are welcome to attend.

Nearly every person who has posted about the HHMI has talked about doing basic science.

Thats because that's what most people choose to do. 10-20% of the scholars this year are doing straight clinical or mostly clinical research. They could have just as easily chosen basic science.

With respect to structure, when I was looking at programs, the CRTP alums had experiences much closer to what I wanted - some clinic time, some lab time, some class time. I didn't get the same feel when I looked at HHMI. In fact, I felt that the focus was solely on the lab. You guys see that as a plus - I get it! - but my experience is that unrestricted lab time becomes lab time, all the time. I've been there, done that, and I wanted something different for my year out.

I think we're just experiencing sampling bias here. I definitely have a good mix. Most others in my program feel the same way. You can make it what you want.

Folks, don't confuse a difference of opinion with an insult. I had specific and high standards in what I wanted for a research year out, and only the CRTP met them.

Relax, I don't take any of this as an insult in the least. What I hope to do is clear up any misinformation so that others get complete information regarding these programs.

"Enrichment activities" means "anything the program provides outside of the lab." I mentioned the clinical research seminars because they are analagous to the ones you promoted as being an important part of the HHMI. I did not know that anyone can take the IPPCR course, so again, this is news.

Maybe this is just me, but I sounds like you're trying to prove how one program is better than the other. But your posts show that the two programs are nearly identical - I mean, the CRTP also pays for extra classes and books.

I'll admit it looks like I've been misinformed, but understand that I only have program brochures and this forum to go off of. You have been there for a year. If you're trying to inform current and future applicants, then starting a post with "I think you made a serious error in judgement" is counter-productive.

"Enrichment activities" means "anything the program provides outside of the lab." I mentioned the clinical research seminars because they are analagous to the ones you promoted as being an important part of the HHMI. I did not know that anyone can take the IPPCR course, so again, this is news.

Maybe this is just me, but I sounds like you're trying to prove how one program is better than the other. But your posts show that the two programs are nearly identical - I mean, the CRTP also pays for extra classes and books.

I'll admit it looks like I've been misinformed, but understand that I only have program brochures and this forum to go off of. You have been there for a year. If you're trying to inform current and future applicants, then starting a post with "I think you made a serious error in judgement" is counter-productive.

Point taken rxnman. That didn't exactly open lines of communication did it?

I admit I'm biased because I'm doing HHMI, but I truly like both programs. And regardless of what's been said, the similiarities are much greater than the differences.

I like you rxnman. I hope you end up here in Bethesda. It's really a great time!

Given how similar the programs are, I'd actually love it if you (thesauce) could discuss what the real differences are between the programs? Beyond the fact that most cloisters students do bench work and technically live on campus?

Given how similar the programs are, I'd actually love it if you (thesauce) could discuss what the real differences are between the programs? Beyond the fact that most cloisters students do bench work and technically live on campus?

Socmob, I'm happy to:

Let me preface with my advice to apply to BOTH programs. They're so much alike that you could overlook the differences and be happy with either, therefore it simple improves your odds of having a year in Bethesda.

Housing:
I'll try and mention things that I didn't in my previous posts. With HHMI, There's a lottery to determine who gets what room (unless you're with S.O., in which case you get a 1BR automatically) and depending on the room, you could pay $300-850/month which is taken directly out of your pay. Only HHMI scholars live in the Cloister. Each room comes with a computer, tv, kitchenware, and is furnished. There is a weightroom, free laundry-room, a ping-pong table, a pool table, a library, a piano, and a lounge at the Cloister as well. If you want to have a non-NIH employee come visit you, they must come through security which takes approx. 5 min (I only mention this because someone stressed this as a negative during my interviews...I couldn't give 2 sh#*s about it though).

With CRTP, you live off campus in an apartment complex. The complex houses CRTP and non-CRTP residents. You share a 2BR with another fellow unless you have a S.O. in which case you get a 1BR. The 2BR costs 930 apiece or something like that. Not sure about the 1BR. They are furnished similarly to the cloister rooms, but you provide your own computer. They give you a computer allowance, but I think they've gotten rid of that now. Not sure about laundry. There's a gym less than a block away, but I don't know if that cost is covered. You get either a parking pass for the NIH or tons of metro money. Not sure about other recreation at the apt building.

Research:
CRTP can do clinical or translational. Often in the same lab as HHMI scholars.
HHMI can do any kind of research. Often in the same lab as CRTP :)
You choose your mentor after you get here with both programs (this is an unbelievably great thing in my opinion). HHMI requires a 9 month commitment and CRTP is 11 months, I believe. Both programs pay you to present at conferences.

Interviews (lesser issue):
CRTP = fly you down and stay at a Double Tree. Pay you per diem for food. Interview itself was very conversational.
HHMI = stay at HHMI headquarters. Food and meals are provided. Interviews are at the Cloister. Interviews themselves tear you down and make you feel like you don't know what you're talking about and then question your motives.

"Enrichment Activities":
CRTP has Clinical Grand Rounds, optional Monday night dinners at the Cloister, and possibly other stuff. HHMI has required Monday night dinners with guest lecturers and Thursday night dinners with scholar presentations. Each program participates in the Clinical Investigator Student Trainee (CIST) Forum which is several days of lectures where all the 1 year off students (Sarnoff, DD, Fogarty, CRTP, NIH GPP, etc.) come to the NIH. HHMI has 1 additional meeting with all the HHMI fellows and scholars in Bethesda (haven't done that one yet).

If you want to throw a party at the Cloister, for instance for the super bowl, barbecue, etc. HHMI will give you money to do it (they don't pay for alcohol though). Not sure of CRTP's policy on this.

Classes:
No classes are required for HHMI. They will pay for classes and books if you want them. A series of Clinical Research Courses are required by CRTP, so you leave with a certificate in clinical research.

Wrapup:
As you can see, they are quite similar programs. It would be hard to hit on everything here and I feel like I've missed a lot. I hope this was helpful on some level. I'll try and field additional questions as needed.

On a side note: I thought only law2doc was ever called to post. I feel flattered!

Should have replied earlier b/c I read it when it was posted, but thanks so much thesauce! Only 8? more days...

This post went from diplomatic:

Point taken rxnman. That didn't exactly open lines of communication did it?...

...to downright weird:

...I like you rxnman...:d :eek:

I kid, I kid. :laugh:

Thank you for the side-by-side comparison. Some follow-up questions:

Do you mind if I add your comparison to the forum FAQ?

Does the CRTP housing have a name or other Google-able identifier?

Can CRTP fellows (or other NIH program fellows) do a clinical rotation at the NIH while they are there? Given that I'd already be at the NIH, with the time commitment and the research I'd like to do, it would be easy/fun to follow-up with an elective clinical rotation.

...Only 8? more days...Same here - the wait is killing me. Oh well, at least I have a Psych final to focus on. :rolleyes:

This post went from diplomatic:



...to downright weird:

:d :eek:

I kid, I kid. :laugh:

Thank you for the side-by-side comparison. Some follow-up questions:

Do you mind if I add your comparison to the forum FAQ?

Does the CRTP housing have a name or other Google-able identifier?

Can CRTP fellows (or other NIH program fellows) do a clinical rotation at the NIH while they are there? Given that I'd already be at the NIH, with the time commitment and the research I'd like to do, it would be easy/fun to follow-up with an elective clinical rotation.

Ok I'm going to try to address some of the things on this thread that need more info re:CRTP.

The CRTP fellows are housed in 2 different apartment buildings - about half the fellows are in each building and both buildings are walkable from the NIH. You cannot find either on google (if you want them I can PM you the addresses but I feel kind of uncomfortable posting on the web). They are pretty large and very nice for what you'd get in Bethesda (although the ones that haven't been renovated don't have the prettiest bathrooms). Most of the IRTAs in my lab live in Bethesda or other DC suburbs and pay $800-1300 a month and all have roommates, so our rent is not out of proportion to local rates. The apartments are furnished and some of the furnishings are nice and some are not but they will replace things if something is seriously wrong with it. I personally haven't lived in a dorm since my freshman year of college so the thought of moving back into one was really unappealing to me, but I guess the expense may be worth it to some people.

As for research, as already mentioned the CRTP and Cloister students often work in the same labs. There are no restrictions on the type of work you do - you CAN do basic science if you want. The only thing that I believe *may* be enforced is that you're supposed to work under an MD (and I was under the impression that the Cloister students were supposed to work under a PhD) but I'm really not sure... I have a feeling if you really had a good reason for wanting to work under a PhD they probably wouldn't stop you.

The CRTP classes that RxnMan is talking about are twofold, and not available to anyone else at the NIH. We have clinical teaching rounds, probably twice a month on average, in which a doctor from some branch of the NIH presents a patient case (usually with the patient present). The format varies from presenter to presenter, but sometimes it will be a patient presenting with a problem and we have to figure out what they have, and sometimes it will be more of a lecture on a certain disease. Usually it's a combination of the two. They do do a good job of getting a variety of cases from a LOT of the different institutes. The second class we have is our "journal club". We typically have it the weeks that we don't have clinical teaching rounds, also about twice per month. For this class we have a book about clinical research and each lecture covers a chapter of the book. Two students present each chapter in a format of their choosing and they also pick a journal article somehow relevant to the chapter which we discuss. These classes are from 5-7, with dinner from 5-6 and the talk from 6-7. As already mentioned, you can attend the HHMI dinners if you want but most people in the CRTP aren't particularly interested in basic science and usually don't attend (at least in my year). Also, as mentioned, if you want to take the FAES courses (which are just courses offered by the NIH) you get a certain allowance for courses/books per semester.

Our program requirement is 10-12 months.

The NIH offers clinical rotations but you cannot do one while you are in the program (at least for CRTP). So during that time you would not be getting a paycheck or be allowed to live in NIH housing, but you could do one after the program was over if you wanted to.

The amount of time you spend in clinic DURING your research year really depends upon who you work for. My lab has inpatients and does outpatient evals on a regular basis, so I see patients every day. Other students I know spend at least one half day a week in clinic. Some don't do clinic at all.

Another CRTPer here - Just to clarify, IPPCR is different from what we do. Anyone can take the IPPCR (I don't think there's even a charge, except maybe for the book). No one in the program takes it.

Also, no one even really encourages us to do clinical research. I think most people have some basic science component. As above our PI isn't supposed to be a PhD only. For example in my branch there is an excellent PhD who we're not supposed to work with and who the HHMI kids work with. At the same time HHMI folks do not work in the clinical and translational division of my branch. Apparently this has come down straight from the institute director.

Obviously this does not apply to every branch, but just realize that these (minor) limitations work both ways. Both programs are excellent. For future students, apply to both and see the differences when you come for interview. The only exception should be if there is someone specific who you must work with and only works with students from one program or the other (which was my case).

Also, I only go to clinic when the fellows specifically ask for help or I don't have any experiments running. So maybe one morning a month. You'd be shocked at how much autonomy we are afforded during patient care.

...You cannot find either on google (if you want them I can PM you the addresses but I feel kind of uncomfortable posting on the web)...I thought housing was part of a corporate apartment complex. Since it's not, your reluctance makes sense.

...The second class we have is our "journal club"...As already mentioned, you can attend the HHMI dinners if you want but most people in the CRTP aren't particularly interested in basic science and usually don't attend (at least in my year)...Huh. What's with the brochure and IPPCR? I'm not complaining, it all sounds good. :cool:

...The amount of time you spend in clinic DURING your research year really depends upon who you work for...
...Also, I only go to clinic when the fellows specifically ask for help or I don't have any experiments running. So maybe one morning a month. You'd be shocked at how much autonomy we are afforded during patient care.Very cool. I want my future career to include some clinic and some lab time. These flexibile schedules sound exactly like what I want. :thumbup:

Thanks for your posts. Do you guys mind if I put the information in these posts into the FAQ?

Does anyone have the contact information for these programs? I'm trying to get in touch with the program directors to invite students/ fellows to the annual APSA annual meeting - it's a great opportunity to present research, as well as network. Here's the link in case you're interested too.
http://www.physicianscientists.org/meetings/annual/2009

This post went from diplomatic:

...to downright weird:

:d :eek:

I kid, I kid. :laugh:

On an unrelated note, I forgot to mention that students of any sexual orientation are welcome to apply ;)


Thank you for the side-by-side comparison. Some follow-up questions:

Do you mind if I add your comparison to the forum FAQ?

Does the CRTP housing have a name or other Google-able identifier?

Can CRTP fellows (or other NIH program fellows) do a clinical rotation at the NIH while they are there? Given that I'd already be at the NIH, with the time commitment and the research I'd like to do, it would be easy/fun to follow-up with an elective clinical rotation.

No problem, go ahead and add it to the FAQ. Some schools (Cleveland Clinic, for instance) require that you get a certain amount of clinical exposure during any research program so several HHMI students have taken time off from their lab to do rotations at the NIH. I'm sure that I could do the same in my lab. However, it would just be for the experience or to appease your school, students don't get university "credit" for them as far as I know.

As for research, as already mentioned the CRTP and Cloister students often work in the same labs. There are no restrictions on the type of work you do - you CAN do basic science if you want. The only thing that I believe *may* be enforced is that you're supposed to work under an MD (and I was under the impression that the Cloister students were supposed to work under a PhD) but I'm really not sure... I have a feeling if you really had a good reason for wanting to work under a PhD they probably wouldn't stop you.

This shows just how much misinformation is out there. I didn't know that CRTPs can do basic science research. And I know for a fact that HHMIers can work under an MD or a PhD. I work under an MD. My program has never suggested that I choose one or the other.

So it sounds like either program can do any kind of research and work under either an MD or a PhD. Once more illustrating how similar the programs are.

This shows just how much misinformation is out there. I didn't know that CRTPs can do basic science research. And I know for a fact that HHMIers can work under an MD or a PhD. I work under an MD. My program has never suggested that I choose one or the other.

So it sounds like either program can do any kind of research and work under either an MD or a PhD. Once more illustrating how similar the programs are.

So is one difference having the HHMI name behind your fellowship and the doors that can potentially open?

So is one difference having the HHMI name behind your fellowship and the doors that can potentially open?

If you're hoping to contrast the "prestige factor," I would refer you to page 3 where several people chimed in. I'd rather not go there again.

In terms of residencies, all of the programs have very impressive match lists. HHMI only by word of mouth, CRTP posts their matches in the last page of their brochure: http://www.cc.nih.gov/training/crtp/CRTPBook2008.pdf, and Columbia DD posts their alumni matches here: http://dorisduke.cumc.columbia.edu/residency.html

I challenge you to find a non-academic program listed on either site.

I'm not sure where to find info on professorships or funding besides the fact that HHMI has early career grant awards that are only available to HHMI alumni.

Huh. What's with the brochure and IPPCR? I'm not complaining, it all sounds good. :cool:


So, based on the brochure, the "journal club" I was talking about is the "clinical research seminar" that was described. Our clinical rounds don't seem to be included in the brochure but I doubt that they plan on doing away with them... the IPPCR course sounds like an FAES course that is offered by the NIH. We were allowed to take it this year but not required; they may have decided to change the requirements for next year. But thesauce is right, you can take that course if you are an HHMI student as well, since is an NIH course, not a CRTP course.

...So, based on the brochure, the "journal club" I was talking about is the "clinical research seminar" that was described...the IPPCR course sounds like an FAES course that is offered by the NIH...Yeah, the top- and middle-third of page 2, respectively.
...Our clinical rounds don't seem to be included in the brochure but I doubt that they plan on doing away with them...It was described in the letter from the director.

Does anyone have the contact information for these programs? I'm trying to get in touch with the program directors to invite students/ fellows to the annual APSA annual meeting - it's a great opportunity to present research, as well as network. Here's the link in case you're interested too.
http://www.physicianscientists.org/meetings/annual/2009For the CRTP, check with the contact page. (http://www.cc.nih.gov/training/crtp/contact.html)

If you're hoping to contrast the "prestige factor," I would refer you to page 3 where several people chimed in. I'd rather not go there again.

In terms of residencies, all of the programs have very impressive match lists. HHMI only by word of mouth.

I was not trying to start a flame war by any means with my statement. Just thought I would throw it out there as a way to decide between HHMI-Cloisters and CRTP since they are both at the NIH.

In the HHMI brochure they have some information on past fellows and their residency/academic position. It wasn't a list, rather on the side panels like a brief intro to past fellows.

I'm curious if there are any MSII's applying, or are most of you MSIII's?

BTW, should we start hearing about interviews sometime next week do you think?

I'm curious if there are any MSII's applying, or are most of you MSIII's?

BTW, should we start hearing about interviews sometime next week do you think?

Cloister interview invites go out on February 10th. Don't know when other notifications are.

I'm a second year. I am anticipating nothing this year with the hopes that it is a learning experience for next year, assuming I still have an interest in doing so.

Cloister interview invites go out on February 10th. Don't know when other notifications are.

I'm a second year. I am anticipating nothing this year with the hopes that it is a learning experience for next year, assuming I still have an interest in doing so.

So how does applying for these programs as 2nd year med students affect the timeline of studying and taking Step I after MS2? Do you take Step I before starting these research programs (given that you're accepted)? Is it a big distraction studying for Step I and organizing a move to start these programs?

You cannot apply to the CRTP without having completed your clinical rotations, so it's only available for people who are current MSIIIs or MSIVs (unless you go to Duke and do rotations as an MSII).

Also, wrt to prestige: the majority of people who chose my program over the Cloister did so for the following reasons:
1.) They wanted to have an emphasis on clinical research/training.
2.) They wanted to live in apartments and not on campus.
3.) They felt they fit in better with the CRTP fellows (if you are invited to both the CRTP and Cloister interviews, you will notice that the two groups have somewhat different personalities).

Quite a few of my colleagues didn't even bother applying to the Cloister program because they didn't feel the program was as interesting to them wrt their interests and career goals. However, everyone obviously has their own priorities and if you need something "prestigious" on your residency application, then the Howard Hughes name *may* give you an extra push. The CRTP fellows I've spoken to, however, seem to be doing very well on the interview trail in competitive specialties and people are impressed at a year off on at the NIH regardless of the name of the program, so if you feel you fit in better with one group or the other, I personally think you should choose based on fit.

So how does applying for these programs as 2nd year med students affect the timeline of studying and taking Step I after MS2? Do you take Step I before starting these research programs (given that you're accepted)? Is it a big distraction studying for Step I and organizing a move to start these programs?

The programs all have different start dates. I believe the Doris Duke programs start in July, although I'm not sure if you can apply to them as an MSII anyway. The Cloister program has multiple start dates, and you can start as late as mid/end of August, so you should have plenty of time to take Step 1 before you get here (or Step 2 if you are finishing your third year).

although I'm not sure if you can apply to them as an MSII anyway.

Yes you can.

Anyone know the Cloisters & CRTP start dates/range? (I'm actually more concerned with the earliest you can move down rather than the latest just in terms of my apt lease and deciding when to take step II)

This thread has been really helpful. It's really picked up since I've last been on and I have some catching up to do, but it has been great so far. Please keep posting as you all go through interviews get your acceptances and experience the programs. I'd love to hear more if I decide to apply in a future cycle. I wish you guys the best!

Lys

Anyone know the Cloisters & CRTP start dates/range? (I'm actually more concerned with the earliest you can move down rather than the latest just in terms of my apt lease and deciding when to take step II)

Sometime around the beginning of June.

Anyone know the Cloisters & CRTP start dates/range? (I'm actually more concerned with the earliest you can move down rather than the latest just in terms of my apt lease and deciding when to take step II)

The first 2008 move-in date for HHMI was July 7.

The first 2008 move-in date for HHMI was July 7.

Yeah actually I have to take that back; I believe it was July 1 for CRTP.

Found out today that I did not get accepted to the Sarnoff. Hopefully one of the DD or one of the HHMI fellowships works out. :xf: If not I'll give it another try next year.

Found out today that I did not get accepted to the Sarnoff. Hopefully one of the DD or one of the HHMI fellowships works out. :xf: If not I'll give it another try next year.

You're currently a second year? If so, when are you planning taking Step I? I ask because I'm just curious how an applicant juggles this process, 2nd year, and Step I.

You're currently a second year? If so, when are you planning taking Step I? I ask because I'm just curious how an applicant juggles this process, 2nd year, and Step I.

Most people in my class apply for these kinds of programs after second year. However, notifications for the program come around March, while people take Step I around June.

Yeah, most ppl take step 1 in may or june, perfect timing for starting a research fellowship in july. There's a similar issue w/ Step 2 - some take it before they start while others take it sometime during the research year.

Has anyone heard back from cloisters yet this year? If not, anyone know when they're sending out interview notices?

Yeah, most ppl take step 1 in may or june, perfect timing for starting a research fellowship in july. There's a similar issue w/ Step 2 - some take it before they start while others take it sometime during the research year.Exactly. My school demands that students take Step 2:CK within the first 3 months of MS4. Our year starts in Aug, so taking Step 2 at that time would delay when I could move down to Bethesda, which is already at the end of the CRTP start window.

Has anyone heard back from cloisters yet this year? If not, anyone know when they're sending out interview notices?

Cloister interview invites go out on February 10th...:rolleyes:

For those who are interested: University of Iowa DDCF interview offer via email today.

Interview dates: February 26th, March 6th, March 12th.

:rolleyes:

Oh... thanks! Gahh, another 24 hrs of waiting :scared:

For those who are interested: University of Iowa DDCF interview offer via email today.

Interview dates: February 26th, March 6th, March 12th.

I just got an interview for UIowa DDCF today as well. I am excited to interview there. :thumbup:

I just got an interview for UIowa DDCF today as well. I am excited to interview there. :thumbup:

For those applying to Iowa DD... they seem to have not filled in years past, so you'll likely get a spot! Good luck!

For those applying to Iowa DD... they seem to have not filled in years past, so you'll likely get a spot! Good luck!

That is good news if true. I noticed that just about every year they have ~7 fellows and this past year, 2008-2009, they have 9. So it seems that they have extended more spots for the program.

That is good news if true. I noticed that just about every year they have ~7 fellows and this past year, 2008-2009, they have 9. So it seems that they have extended more spots for the program.

Well I do know that when you do the Doris Duke application, you have the option of checking a box that allows you to be contacted by programs that still have available spots after the acceptance period is over, even if you didn't apply to them. Iowa did contact me and my friend (neither of us had applied there), and I know that they had done so with other students in years past. So I'm not sure how big their program is supposed to be; perhaps they ended up filling it with students who hadn't applied.