View Full Version : Best Podiatry School
07-14-2002, 02:00 PM
I know there are no formal ratings for podiatry schools...but which schools of the 7 in the U.S. would you say is the best (or close to being the best)? Is the one in CA (California School of Podiatric Medicine) any good?
I want to apply to 3 podiatry schools. Which ones should I apply to? Thanks!
07-14-2002, 06:09 PM
The San Francisco school used to enjoy some status as one of the better schools, but it's fallen on hard times as of late. I graduated from there in 1998 and it still had a decent rep.
I think the school in Philadelphia is the most highly regarded overall, especially since it has affiliated with Temple Medical School, which has given it some clout.
Everyone's got an opinion, though, but I'll stick with Philly.
07-30-2002, 10:27 PM
Wow Omniscient One! I'm so happy to see that you have begun to preface your comments with "I think." How could you possibly know that TCPM, which isn't even on the same campus as Temple's Medical School, is the best? When did you become enlightened? Before jumping to conclusions, allow the prospect to make inquiries of all schools. Just about every school is represented on the forum here so that is also a great way to elicit information.
There are several programs worthy of mention. A better prospect perhaps would be to suggest which schools you should be leery of. Generally, the education will be the same or similiar at all schools. It mores comes down to where you want to live, how you want to live, and which schools have the best residencies. Cost of living is a major factor because afterall, $38K in DesMoines goes a lot farther than $38K in SanFrancisco. The government (or whomever is your financier) doesn't care that you want to live in, say, SanFrancisco, one of the highest cost of livings in the entire country. Money is money and for a loan, there is no adjustment for living in different areas of our great country.
I interviewed at 4 of the schools and I have to admit that the differences are quite profound. It would behoove you to make a serious time investment as this is going to be the place you call home for the next few years. I'm sure we'd all be happy to answer any specific questions you may have.
One last thought, your screen name is a bit disturbing. Are you interested in podiatry as a career or as a means to an end? If so, I suggest you double, no triple, the previously aforementioned time investment bit of advice.
As far as Temple's reputation being good because it is affiliated with Temple Medical School. I don't fully agree. Temple does have a good reputation, but that is not the only reason. Their academics are supposed to be good. The podiatry school is at a different physical location than the med school. Some professors lecture at both places.
Scholl recently merged with Finch, do it will likely benefit from it's accociation with a medical school as well. I don't have any idea how closely the classes will be linked.
Des Moines University has been combined with the Osteopathic program there for a long time. To the point where the majority of first year classes are taken together. (see previous posts for more on this.) They also have a great reputation.
CCPM did have a strong reputation, this is where a large part of our biomechanical education came from (such as Root, et al.) However this was a while ago, and recently they have had some administrative problems. I don't know all the details, so I will leave that to others.
NYCPM, OCPM and Barry I can't comment on much either. Most of what I have heard has been second hand. I am sure that you can get a good education at any of the schools, and think that secondary factors should play a part in the decision making process as well. Cost of living, environment, family, etc. Which of these you value more highly, and how much weight you apply to each when you are making your decisions is an individual effort.
Do take the time to do a bit of research on your own. Talk to a number of DPMs in practice. Visit the schools. etc.
07-31-2002, 03:02 PM
I will actually be interviewed for CCPM pod. school soon. Any advice?
08-01-2002, 11:31 AM
So, thesauras1, how long have you been a critic of mine? I purposely put the words "I think" to preface my comment for people like yourself who don't seem to understand that everything that is said on this forum IS opinion and nothing more. This poster was looking for AN OPINION and not the final answer to the questions of humanity! If nobody offered AN OPINION about anything, It'd be a pretty uninformed world.
Listen carefully: WHEN I WAS IN PODIATRY SCHOOL, PCPM WAS THOUGHT OF AS THE "BEST" OF THE 7 COLLEGES. This was not only MY OPINION, but it was based on some knowledge that you don't have. It is based on 4 years worth of what I heard from professors, faculty and students alike. Not everyone thought so, but more people did than didn't. The question came up frequently. And I never said that it was because it was affiliated with an MD school. It wasn't when I was a pod student. I meant that it helps now that it's affiliated with an MD school. It had a good reputation for faculty and clinical exerience. San Francisco had a rep for biomechanics, New York had a rep for don't go if you know what's good for you, Ohio and Iowa did not have a rep and Florida had a rep for good sun and fun.
Oh, by the way, these are OPINIONS so don't write them down and try and use them for currency.
08-02-2002, 07:32 PM
Boy did that elicit a response.
Well Dr. Moon (aka ToeJam) I'm glad to see that you are actually conscious of the term OPINION. I've gradually noticed a shift from hardliner (anti-pod) to a more open point of view. I'm only trying to point out that if you mention one school as your opinion of the best, perhaps you should know more about the school before you suggest as so. Back it up, give reasons why you believe TUPM (formerly known as PCPM) is the best. I'm not disputing your opinion, I'm only commenting that affiliation does not mean superiority. Simply because you have an MD/DO slant (see previous posts for your view), doesn't mean that any school associated with MD or DO is better and makes any difference. I think all readers agree that affiliation is good but not necessarily the precipice upon which all schools should be judged.
I'm sorry that you have taken such a circuitous route to your chosen profession. Perhaps if pursuing MD is going to pod school to be an MD/DO, by all means offer your advice and opinion. You definitely know more about that than any of us. You have all the wisdom in the world. But please don't suggest something because you are currently disenchanted.
08-03-2002, 10:11 AM
It certainly wasn't my intent to take such a costly and difficult path to become a DO/MD. I fully expected to be content and successful as a podiatrist. But, people make mistakes all of the time and the only hope is that you learn from your mistakes. I'm not focusing on the money I invested, the endless hours of pre-med classes I took, the financial sacrifices I incurred, etc. Instead, I'm choosing to view it as incredible strong and relevant experience to help make me a top medical school, resident and physician. I didn't research podiatry enough and I also didn't consider the very real possibility of future "MD envy". I can tell you that I'm a poster child for this. And, it's not because I think MD's are the end all be all of everything. I don't bow before the MD God. I'm not carrying an MD's child. MD's are no better or no smarter than anyone else. It's simply that I've wanted to be a doctor since 1984 and my definition of a doctor is either an MD or a DO. Fully trained, fully licensed, completing what I FEEL is the best medical education a person can do.
"Pursuing MD" should carefully examine his/her motives for wanting to know more about podiatry. I have said it many times before. DO NOT go to podiatry school if it's because you are unable to get into MD or DO school. This is a sure path to misery.
BTW, I'm not anti-pod. You've never seen me disparage podiatrists. I think that podiatrist are the undisputed experts of the foot and ankle. I am, however, a huge critic of the system, the process, the politics, the organizations and the DPM's who do not give back to the profession and help the less fortunate.
Why do I need to know more about a pod school before I profess and opinion? All I said was that I heard that PCPM was considered the best. Does this make it the best? No. It was just the one school that was mentioned more than the others when I was a student. I think the Seychelles Islands are beautiful. I've never been there, but I've read about it, seen it in photos and spoke to someone who was there. This is an opinion. Think about it. You express opinions all day, every day and sometimes they aren't based on a lot of personal experience. Do you think that Afghanistan is less comfortable than Dallas, TX? You probably do, but you've never been there (or maybe you have, I don't know). I hope you get my point.
I disagree with you on the affiliation issue. If a podiatry school has close ties with an allopathic or osteopathic school, it can only enhance the education of the students. They will clearly have an advantage over, say, CCPM (when I was a student), which had NO affiliations of any worth which meant that our clinical experiences were anemic.
"I'm sorry that you have taken such a circuitous route to your chosen profession. Perhaps if pursuing MD is going to pod school to be an MD/DO, by all means offer your advice and opinion. You definitely know more about that than any of us. You have all the wisdom in the world. But please don't suggest something because you are currently disenchanted."
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. How do you go to pod school to be an MD/DO? If you mean that they really want to be an MD/DO, but are choosing pod school as a backup, then I do know more than you. I also have more experience in podiatry than anybody who is a student or who is thinking of becoming a student.
My opinions might not be comfortable for you to read, but they are my opinions. Most of them are based on personal experience and some of them are based on anectodal information. I'll try and be more obvious in the future when I post something that is only my opinion.
08-06-2002, 06:50 PM
To anyone thinking about going to CCPM, I would strongly discourage it. The school is riddled with problems from the top all the way to the bottom. The school lost its WASC accreditation last year and it is on the verge of losing its CPME accreditation which is on probationary status. The classes are taught half ass, morale is low with the instructors, grades are grossly inflated, board scores are low. They also have no facilities to speak of. Last year they were with TUCOM and now they are taking refuge at Samuel Merritt College. Most of the instructors are also gone and the classes are taught by a few part time faculty. The school is unfortunately spiraling into oblivion. I reccomend going to Temple or Scholl.
08-06-2002, 07:11 PM
As a former graduate of CCPM I hate to bad mouth the school. So I wanted to add that they may come out of the mess that they are currently in. Anything is possible. My opinion though is that they are not going to be able to survive much longer. I sent my son to Scholl last year and he enjoys the school very much.
Any opinions on the other schools?
08-07-2002, 06:48 PM
Here is a brief synopsis of some of the schools:
CCPM is shaky and uncertain as mentioned before. Wouldn't bother with it in its present condition.
Barry is famous for sending acceptance letters out to people that didn't even interview. Not a good sign. Little known about the school. They stay out of the mainstream. Very slow to respond to inquiries about the school.
Ohio is in the bad part of town in Cleveland, grades are inflated and anyone can get in. A lot of their students there don't carry themselves like doctors. They also operate out of an old run down building.
Scholl is a very good school and they are strong in radiology. They tend to treat their students like they are in undergrad though. Good school to go to. It is good and stable with a solid cirriculum. The name is well known too. I haven't been up there since the joined with Finch.
Temple is another good one also. They have a good cirriculum and it is a tough program that prepares the students well for rotations and residency and beyond. I think they're in a bit of a shady area too but not all that bad from what I remember.
Iowa is a good school also but extremely tough. This school puts you right in there with the DO students side by side. All the schools should do this in my opinion. It makes the podiatry students more serious like the DO and MD students. I've met graduates from this school recently and they are very well prepared for their residencies and have a lot of confidence. I think the confidence is due to them being with the medical students.
New York is in Harlem so I wouldn't touch it either. Who wants to take chances with their lives just to go to school when there are other choices out there? Some people say it is good and others say it isn't. It's about fifty/fifty.
The big three are Scholl, Temple, and Iowa. You can't go wrong with any of them. All three will turn you into a tough and confident graduate.
08-08-2002, 08:07 AM
You are very mistaken about Harlem. It is one of the up and coming areas of NYC. It is part of a billion dollar renovation. Please visit the sites below for more information:
08-08-2002, 12:47 PM
What's wrong with the NY podiatry school in Harlem, besides the argument that it is located in Harlem?
Does the school prepare you well as a podiatrist and does it offer good residencies (any in CA?)?
I have heard similar opinions as what is above, but cannot vouch for all if it. It does seem to concur with the general consensus.
Others will say that all of the schools can adequately prepare you for residency/practice. Opinions vary. I think it is possible, but you will need to work at it yourself (I think this is true no matter what school you look at.)
The schools don't really offer residencies. (Some of the schools do have residencies associated with them, or have established relationships with some residencies.) For the most part, selection for residencies happens through a centralized process. Don't expect the school to fix up a residency for each student. (If they did I would question the quality.)
Yes, there are residencies in CA. Going to school in NYC will not keep you from applying to them. Other than that I can't say how well prepared you would be, or how likely to be accepted.
08-08-2002, 05:31 PM
As a graduate of TUSPM, the first group of students that went throught the temple system for the whole four years. Now to get things straight. Yes we are affiliated with temple but our schools are at different locations (15 mins away) due to the fact that TUSPM used to be PCPM and the school remained at the current location. We do have professors from TEMPLE MED that teach at both schools for the first two years. and our rotations in medicine, etc are done with MD students and it's often a good exchange of information. BEing part of temple gives us the advantage of having the use of their resources, such as the main library, med library, dental/pharm library as well as our own library. THE campuses are linked via a shuttle that runs every hour. as for education, I can say that TUSPM is tops. having worked with externs from other schools, I can see that we do have the advantage. I graduated feeling confident in handling podiatric problems, and knowing the academics behind the surgeries. SO make your own choice. Hey if you want to be an MD, just go for MD, dont' waste your time with pod school. but if you seriously love POD and SURGERY that we do, then by all means go for it. I love cutting and doing closed reductions in the ER and also teaching the med students and other physicians, so it works for me.
Pod surgery resident
08-09-2002, 10:43 AM
I am curious what people are thinking about CCPM. I am about to apply and I was considering applying there. Do you think the school will get through the hardships that it has had lately, or will it eventually close? Does anyone know what the latest is on them losing their various accredidations last year? Have they got them back yet?
08-09-2002, 11:46 AM
I Am applying to NYCPM. They see by far the largest patients of any foot clinic in the country- 45,000 per year. Students are required to be in clinic every day during their 3 and 4th years. I know I will get plenty of hands on experience and be well prepared for residency. They are also associted with Columbia Univeristy College of Physicians and Surgeons.
Good luck to all of you!
08-09-2002, 01:36 PM
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW AN OPINION WHEN THEY SEE IT, THE FOLLOWING POST IS NOTHING MORE THAN MY OPINION.
I went to CCPM from 1994-1998 and would not recommend taking a chance. It wasn't in as much trouble back then, but the administrators were so full of guano when they spoke to us about the never-ending woes of CCPM and podiatry that we stopped believing them by the 2nd year. We nicknamed one specific DPM who doubled as an administrator as "Dr. Spin". Read some other posts on this thread. It doesn't look very appealing to me. They've lost almost every professor that was there during my time (THIS IS NOT AN OPINION. I CHECKED). Many classes are put together through spit and twine. And I can't even imagine what their clinical stuff is comprised of now (OPINION, OPINION, OPINION).
I don't know very much about NYCPM, but if they're seeing that many patients, that's what's important in your education. Even though NYCPM is in Harlem, I've heard that it's undergoing a tranformation much like Hollywood, CA where I practice. Patient exposure is precisely what we lacked at CCPM. The amount of "patients" that I was exposed to was no less than embarassing (FACT). During my "clinical" years (3rd and 4th), I saw very few medical patients and almost exclusively nail and callus patients on the podiatry side (FACT). The medical patients that I did see were someone else's and I really did just "see" them (FACT). In my supposed diabetic rotation, in one month I saw a grand total of 2 patients (FACT). In my "junior surgical" rotation, I saw a grand total of one in one month (FACT). In my "hospital" rotation, I saw about 10 in one month and they were all thickened nails, tinea pedis or varicose veins (FACT). What I learned from that and the weak residency that I did was that the most important part of your education is the actual hands on work. Knowing the specifics of immunology or what stratified columnar epithelium looks like under a scope means nothing.
At this point, I am so inferiorly trained that I've decided to spend more money and re-enter real medical school. Even if I were to find a good position (which doesn't exist), I feel so inadequate that I wouldn't accept it. I'll continue to cut nails and calluses and do the occasional ingrown until my golden admission ticket arrives.
I've got some questions. The first part is quick. The second might require some reflection.
If CCPM has lost practically all of the professors that were there during your tenure, how do you think the school has changed? Do you think their replacements are better or worse? Do you expect that any changes have been made in the clinical exposure?
How did your third and fourth year clinics work? For comparison, I'll give a synopsis of Des Moines' clinics.
During the summer between 2nd and 3rd years we each spend a month in "summer clinics", which was our "Intro to clinics". Fairly basic, but it got everyone accustomed to the clinic routine. See the patients, take a history, come up with a diagnosis (Or a differential list), and think about a plan of action. THis was presented before any patient care was allowed. As the year went on this changed a bit.
During the first semester of the second year, our time was split between classes and clinic. We had different clinic groups (attendings) and rotated every month. We generally had classes on Mondays and Fridays (typically in the mornings) and were in clinics the rest of the time. The hours varied by rotation.
By the second semester we were essentially done with classes (except ACLS). This time each rotation also include Problem Based Learning sessions. Each rotation had a different focus. We rotated through the same attendings again, changing every month. From summer clinics to the end of third year there was a significant change in expectations. By the end of the year, we had better have a plan of action to recommend when we presented the patient to the attending. If it was a simple case, (nail care, calluses, IPKs, wound care, etc) we might be expected to have completed this before presenting. The clinics varied. Some were very busy, others fairly light. With one clinician, we could expect to see approx 30+ patients in a morning or afternoon clinic. Some were all diabetic, others primarily biomechanic, others had a fair amount of surgical patients.
Our fourth year is variable. We are responsible for arranging our rotations. The basic guidelines we have: have to complete a "core" rotation. There are hospital based, generally 4 months, though a couple are 6 months. We have to have at least one month of "office based" practice. This can be done anywhere, (such as your hometown DPM), just needs to be arranged ahead of time, so the school can contact them to take care of liability, forward immunization records, etc. The focus of this rotation should be on practice management, office procedures, paperwork, etc. We can take 1 month of "vacation", but this is not required. The rest of the months are up to each individual. Typically the first months are spent rotating at places that one might consider applying for residency. The school also encourages "outside" rotations. I.e. Internal medicine, vascular, radiology, etc. Again, this is up to the individual and can be tailored according to whatever desires you might have. Some people have multiple months spent rotating in office based practices. Others spend most of their time with diabetic intense practices or surgical practices. For example, my first 4 months are being spent in large hospital practices, all of which I am seriously considering for residency. Each is very different in focus and patient base. The first was essentially a referal based practice, high volume. Generally 2 days/week in surgery, the rest in clinics. A typical clinic day might see ~60 patients. Some post-op, some pre-op, some new, some basic nails and calluses. During my current rotation we have typically had 4-7 inpatients (I have been told this is lower than normal). Clinics 2 mornings each week, the rest of the time in surgery with a large number of attendings. Rounding on inpatients mornings and afternoons. A fair amount of call. And we do get calls, a few for nails, but more for diabetic ulcers, fractures, etc. I have been putting in an average of over 12 hours/day.
After looking at what I've written it doesn't seem to bear any resemblance to what you have described from your experiences. To what extent do you think this might be a difference in the schools vs. the way our rotations were arranged? I do know that some of my classmates have 4+ months of "office based" practices arranged for their 4th year. I expect their experiences will be quite different from mine. I also think we might have different goals and expectations. I know that some of my classmates are not interested in having surgical based practices, or plan to limit their surgery to bunions and hammertoes. I thin there are others who plan to focus their practices on diabetic wound care, and others with a greater focus on biomechanical treatement.
I'd be interested in hearing your input.
08-10-2002, 03:47 PM
The NY podiatry school is offering an MD/DPM program (a.k.a. Parallel Track). Has anyone heard of this program?
I believe it's a relatively new program. I would like to know if anyone has heard of this MD/DPM program?
08-10-2002, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Pursuing MD
The NY podiatry school is offering an MD/DPM program (a.k.a. Parallel Track). Has anyone heard of this program?
I believe it's a relatively new program. I would like to know if anyone has heard of this MD/DPM program?
Actually it's DPM/MD, that DPM's gotta come first! As far as I know the MD portion is from an international school. I don't believe that you can sit for any parts of the USMLE. I looked into it as well when I was considering podiatry, but it is an extra 2 years in school (abroad, no less) and no additiona.l practice rights (i.e. you will continue to be a podiatrist). I also have a personal question about your screen name. Why is it not Pursuing DPM? Trust me, you will not be happy with being a DPM if your dream is being an MD, I knew I wouldn't be.
08-10-2002, 11:56 PM
Thank you ToeJam (FACT). It's so much easier to understand your point of view when you spell out what is fact or fiction when perusing your ramblings (read commentary). What you so eloquently referred to as "inferior training" more than explains your caustic and bitter remarks that you attribute to the profession. I certainly am not nearly as knowledgeable about the profession, but I am able to understand condescending comments. I think you would have to agree that your point of view is derogatory in nature. Some of us have done our homework and do indeed want to enter this profession. We do not have "MD envy" although that is the perfect connotation for your condition. It is intersting to note the different tone that you display when using the DO forum. Anyways, hope those DO letters after your name make you a "real doctor in your OPINION." You certainly are better trained than the average DO student coming in the door, although I would think if you were to redo it, you wouldn't have done it this way. You would have stuck to your guns and reapplied another year.
That last statement is very important for other aspiring MD/DOs out there. Don't jump into podiatry because you couldn't get in, you'll only be miserable.
08-11-2002, 09:07 AM
For thesauras and others,
Yes, my bitterness does emanate from what I feel is shoddy training and a nearly half-ass education. It also stems from my current predicament where all I have behind me is a DPM title (which, you will find, does not command the respect you might think it does) and an almost useless one year PPMR residency. This lack of training was out of my control since I did my part in school (3.6 GPA, very well liked) and applied to many, many programs and spent a lot of money going to the sham that is CRIP's. As I've stated before, this one year of training basically gave me a very brief glimpse into medicine (7 months of medicine training, but only one month on each service with the exception of gen med which was two months. One month on a service, especially as a podiatry intern, is not adequate training no matter how you slice it. As you probably know, MD's and DO's spend their first year in a PGY1, which allows them to touch upon various aspects of medicine before they begin their REAL training at whatever they matched as). Aside from those 7 months where I got to play doctor, I spent 5 months in a podiatry clinic where I saw primarily fungal nails, calluses and a smattering of other podiatric ailments, again, all being totally insufficient (except for the nails and calluses, which I was good and sick of by the time I got to the residency). In those 5 months of podiatry, I did ONE arthroplasty, assisted in 4 BUNIONECTOMIES, assisted in ONE PLANTAR FIBROMA SURGERY , and assisted in a revision of a bunionectomy gone bad. Of course, when I was doing real medicine in the hospital I was absolutely inundated with cases and was able to see and do a lot. Unfortunately, only about 5% of it was podiatry related and the rest would soon be relegated to cocktail conversation (I'd never get to see or do anything like that again and I knew it). All of this was at L.A. County, which is one of the best, busiest hospitals to train at. I dreamed of being an MD resident there knowing that I would get more training than would be necessary to be a competent, confident physician.
Oh, did I mention how much they paid us? Seeing that we were podiatry residents and we should have been grateful just to be there, the hospital in its infinite generosity set aside a 10k yearly stipend for us to live lavishly off of. This came in the form of a bi-weekly paycheck of about $375.00. Let's see....I was in my mid 30's, had to pay rent, other bills.....Hmmmm......Oops! I guess I have to get another job while I'm working 100 hours a week! Oh, I know! I'll wait tables on the weekends! Perfect!! That shouldn't be too demeaning or difficult. Getting paged from the hospital while serving fish and lambchops. All I can say is that it can only happen in podiatry.
Beginning to sense why I'm a little bitter?
Of course some of my comments are derrogatory in nature.
And I've advised more than once to avoid podiatry school if you really want to be an MD or DO but can't get in. But this is only part of my problem. If podiatry delivered like I imagined it would (which was pure fantasy) then I would never have even looked for this forum.
Here's my take. If you're interested in podiatry you can certainly enjoy yourself and be successful. But, in my opinion, you need to know the following:
The education is not as strong and inclusive as an MD or DO education. You will not be "on par" with any graduating DO or MD. You'll be a DPM. Nothing less, nothing more.
There are practically no jobs available when you graduate meaning that you need to be very self-sufficient much like a DC.
You will get total respect from your patients, but varying respect from the public at large.
Surgery will not be as big a part of your practice as you imagine.
If you really wanted to be an MD or DO, but couldn't get in, DO NOT ACCEPT ADMISSION TO A PODIATRY SCHOOL.
If you understand these and other pitfalls that may arise and you don't have a problem with them, then you will likely do very well and have a rich and rewarding career.
08-12-2002, 08:07 AM
I agree that there are not many good paying jobs out there for pod resident grads. but most agreements involve incentives in the contract, which means that the person will get a percentage of collectibles after a certain set amount agreed upon per week. So upon this agreement stature. I know of a pod that was hired for 46K, YES, 46K. It is such a same, but>>>>>>>>>>>>>
after a month of working and getting into the groove of things, his collections and patient base moved up and his collections went up to over 1000 for the morning session (3 hours), thus his pay went up significantly non the less and his projection is that he'll be making 150+K his first year as an associate. that's with the overhead all taken out!!!!!!! he's paying off his student loans and getting a new BMW at the end of this year. Now this is the story of how pod hiring and paying works. Hope this clears some stuff up.
Also DON"T GO TO POD School if you don't liek working with people or working with your hands, this extends to everything from working with Pads, orthotics, all the way up to surgery.
I know some people that I wouldn't let them put my assemble my table...........................................
There is a great future in this profession.
Take it from a pod surgery resident that have seen many successful and unsuccessful pods in my time.
08-12-2002, 12:11 PM
All pod med schools were about the same until recently when CCPM started having problems. If they make a comeback though it could be one of the best again. They basically have no competition in this part of the country. They need to become stable and solid and then they could get a lot of students again.
08-12-2002, 12:40 PM
I'm sure your story is for real. However, it's certainly not the norm nor does it reflect reality for most of my colleagues.
Much of what determines how well you'll do when you get out is left to chance. There are a lot of DPM's who are making good money and they never touch a blade. There are probably an equal amount who have at least 2 years of training and can never seem to get out from behind the 8 ball. I know some of them and read about them on the podiatry forum (look it up on Google)
I personally know of 5 DPM's who have at least two years of training (and have been out for at least one or more years) and they still can't break 60k. They're all independent contractors, too, which makes their taxes higher and makes them responsible for many other expenditures.
By the way, where do freshly minted DPM's find jobs? Few students think about this. They just imagine that they're going to be doctors and "surely" their title will command some respect and get them a job somewhere. Wrong. Where are all of the jobs for DPM's? I scrambled like Hell after my crappy PPMR and found a couple of sheister DPM's who were willing to pay me to commit fraud. Nice. After several months of asking around and pounding on doors (not unlike a vacuum cleaner salesman) I found a clinic that needed a DPM. Or, more accurately, needed someone with the ability to bill services. I'm still here and I hate every minute of it. Cutting toenails and calluses day in and day out is not exactly what I envisioned when I dreamed of becoming a physician so many years ago. I kind of thought that I'd be practicing medicine. Looking at my friends who actually have the surgical training, but are unable to find a job where they can use their skills (and, by the way, get their numbers so that they can get board certified) makes me wonder how much better off I'd be if I somehow, some way went back and got another year of surgical training. Well, that's not going to happen for many reasons, not the least of which I can no longer afford to get paid like a circus monkey.
Hope you're in a good program that affords you an excess of surgical cases. I also hope that you're not planning to live in an area that is already saturated with DPM's.
08-12-2002, 01:38 PM
Hi Toe Jam,
I agree with you on some points as you see from my posts. Some things will have to change in our profession in order for us to advance forward. But it is going non the less. I know of C & C people in a very competitive area that are doing well, I can't fathum how but they are.
Residencies are starting to pay DPM's the same amount as DO or MD programs. Do a search for the Christiana hospital program and you'll see that there is a only a slight difference in reimbursement. Remember that we are podiatrist and we don't have to nor want to work like a dog like the DO and MD guys and gals. I grew up with 2 close friends who both went to MD school, we studied together alll the way from HS to our step I boards. and now we are all residents and yes, I am being paid less then either of them. But my hours are better, I don't have the Q4 calls nor the non existence weekends to spend with family. Besides that, I get tons of surgical experience that I love.
Now my program has multiple sites and I'm only commenting on the one place because this is where I've spent my time so far, the senior residents covers the others. I figure 30 surgical patients in one month is not too shabby dont' you think? This pay situation gap can onlyi change when Pod residents work harder and also in cooperation with the director speak up. I know of some programs now that offer the same pay to PODS and the DO/ MD guys.
Pay is horrible after graduation. yes, yes, yes, it is. you need to be a person that can take charge and do your own thing or have a good head on your shoulders when negotiating contracts, etc.
or you can open your own practice somewhere and use your business sense. <--- how? there are many books out there on business and specifically medical practices. Get to know a successful doc and practice and learn from him or her. <--- Learn from winners and you'll be one. Learn from Lossers and you are screwed.
Sorry to hear that POD didn't pay off for ya. East coast programs are pretty good. My classsmates are very happy, except for the PPMR residents that didn't match at Surgical programs, that does suck. The Caspr process is a farce and racism, neputism, etc is abundant. <---------That process needs to change, you can't believe the headache that I faced with those &*^(*&(&&(&
My freinds in MD school didn't have that problem at all, their match was smooth and most are happy. Non of our bullcrap.
hey , whateva, I can moan and groan about it but why bother, doing that will just put myself down. CASPR is a thing of the past for me and I tell ya, It needs to GO! CRIPS was demeaning and ask questions that were not even related to podiatry. Screwballs.
Besides those two things, I love where I am and love the work that I do, and this is as a resident.
Wish you luck on the DO school hunt.