Welcome to the new Medical School Admissions: Special Circumstances Thread.

What is the purpose of this thread?

The sole purpose of this thread is to help students answer the following question: How can I explain "X" that happened in my life on my application? In this thread our mentors can help you figure out how to address in your application events that may have caused adversity in your life or challenges that you may have overcome.

From this point forward (6/9/07), this will be the only topic addressed in this thread.

Please do not post "what are my chances" threads or your entire life story. We are NOT kidding about this.
Brevity is your friend. Your post is much more likely to be answered if your question is brief and to the point.

Inappropriate posts WILL be deleted or moved.
Thank you for your cooperation.




FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS - READ THIS FIRST

Getting ready to apply:

Where can I get advice about the MCAT?
Try the SDN MCAT Forum (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=31).


About your application:

Do I need to list every college course I have ever taken on my application?
Yes. Every college-level course you have taken needs to be listed on your AMCAS or AACOMAS.

I need help with my personal statement.
There is a great thread with personal statement advice (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=375844) in the pre-allo forum.

Will the mentors read my personal statement?
No. We have writing mentors (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5241919#post5241919) who will provide technical advice and critique short passages. We aren't able to offer full-service editing for personal statements, so please don't post them on the Mentor Forum. Any personal statements posted will be deleted.

How do adcoms look at premeds volunteering in a developing country as part of a medical mission?
Tildy has written an excellent synopsis of this issue. Medical volunteering (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5250812&postcount=150)

Does a history of institutional or legal action on my record virtually assure me of not being accepted? How should I handle this? Ignore it or write about it in my essays? Ask Tildy the Dog (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5281943&postcount=96)

How can I get help entering my work/activities into AMCAS? Check out this fantastic thread in Pre-Allo first: AMCAS Work/Activities (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=202513)


About the Mentor Forum:

Is this a good place for a "what are my chances" post?
It really isn't. This is the place for brief, specific questions. Our mentors are not able to evaluate your application or assess your chances for admission to any given school. Posts misplaced in this thread asking "what are my chances?" will be moved to existing threads:

Pre-allopathic: What are my Chances/Where to Apply? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=362758)
Pre-osteopathic: What are my chances? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5247194#post5247194)

Why can't the Adcom members answer my WAMC post?
Tildy has posted an excellent answer to this question. Click to visit Tildy the Dog. (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5284246#post5284246)

Who will be answering my question?
Questions in this thread will be answered by members of medical school admissions committees (students, faculty and staff) and by medical students, residents or physicians who may share their experiences with the admissions process. You may review the credentials of any mentor by viewing their "Welcome" post.

Wow, this thread is long! I don't want to read it all but what if my question has already been answered?
We'd love it if you checked the table of contents (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#3) in post #3 before posting. You might just find the answer to your question and save yourself the trouble.

Several Admissions Committee members and other SDN'ers contributed a lot of time to two threads in the pre-allopathic forums. Although the identities of the posters giving advice in these two threads are NOT verified (as opposed to the mentor forum) there is still a lot of information to glean from them.

ADCOMS: Semi-Solicited Advice [Part I] (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=258536)

ADCOMS: Semi-Solicited Advice [Part II] (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=361321&highlight=ADCOMS)


Tildy's Picks: Answers to very common questions

Unconventional paths to Med School
Career changes & explaining negatives in your PS (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5248043&postcount=20)
Nursing to Medicine (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5270636&postcount=90)
Athlete --> Physician (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5080849&postcount=57)

Your Application
Should I list "planned" activities on my primary application? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5248064&postcount=40)
What's the deal with the Personal Statement? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5248075&postcount=51)
Which extra-curricular activity is better? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5240282&postcount=81)

Letters of Recommendation
Are commitee letters essential? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5337025&postcount=112)
LOR's from your coach? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5088538&postcount=60)

About Getting In
Spanish major & interest in international health (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5248049&postcount=25)
How is my undergraduate institution viewed by Adcoms? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5248056&postcount=32)
How do schools rank and decide between applicants? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5259804&postcount=86)
How important is the interview, anyway? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5260196&postcount=88)

Academic Issues
Options for those with low GPA and/or MCAT (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5248067&postcount=43)
How do Adcoms view low grades or W's? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5248073&postcount=49)

Difficult Circumstances
Should I include personal health information in my PS? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5088726&postcount=63)
Should I disclose my eating disorder or mental illness? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5278590&postcount=96)
Must I report being on academic probation? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5310492&postcount=102)
Have a family and part-time student status (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5371243&postcount=118)

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Current through post #131

Concerns about GPA/MCAT
#10 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#10), #11 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#11), #18 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#18), #22 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#22), #29 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#29), #30 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#30), #32 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#32), #34 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#34), #42 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#42), #43 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#43), #45 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#45), #48 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php? t=410715#48), #49 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#49), #51 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#51), #53 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#53), #64 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#64), #66 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#66), #74 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#74), #77 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=277), #78 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#78), #83 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#83), #92 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#92), #97 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#97), #103 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#103), #105 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#105), #106 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#106), #115 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#115), #129 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#129)

General Application Questions (major, undergrad university, transcripts, LORs, personal statement, interview etc.)
#14 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#14), #15 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#15), #16 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#16), #19 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#19), #24 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#24), #31 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#31), #33 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#33), #37 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#37), #38 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#38), #40 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#40), #41 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#41), #47 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#47), #50 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#50), #52 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#52), #58 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#58), #59 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#59), #61 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#61), #69 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#69), #70 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#70), #71 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#71), #72 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#72), #74 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#74), #81 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#81), #85 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#85), #87 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#87), #88 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#88), #91 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#91), #99 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#99), #104 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#104), #110 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#110), #112 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#112), #113 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#113), #128 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#128), #131 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#131)

Volunteering/Clinical Experience/Working/Research
#20 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#20), #22 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#22), #28 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#28), #39 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#39), #43 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#43), #44 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#44), #80 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#80), #90 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#90), #93 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#93), #107 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#107), #121 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#121), #130 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#130)

Switching From Another Profession/Major to Medicine
#9 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#9), #19 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#19), #26 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#26), #28 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#28), #56 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#56), #57 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#57), #58 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#58), #59 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#59), #68 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#68), #89 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#89), #125 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#125), #130 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#130)

Non-Trad Questions
#15 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#15), #23 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#23), #29 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#29), #40 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#40), #54 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#54), #64 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#64), #72 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=272), #76 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#76), #118 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#118)

Felony, Misdemeanor, Institutional Action
#8 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#8), #63 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#63), #65 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#65), #98 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#98), #101 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#101), #122 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#122), #124 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#124)

Choosing a School
#12 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#12), #17 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#17), #31 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#31), #45 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#45), #76 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#76)

Waitlist Questions
#17 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#17), #35 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#35), #36 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#36)

Foreign Students/Transcripts
#46 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#46), #54 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#54), #60 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#60)

Personal Health Issues When Applying
#62 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#62), #66 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#66), #67 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#67), #78 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#78), #94 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#94), #95 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#95), #100 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#100), #108 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#108), #116 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#116), #119 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#119)


Other Special Circumstances
#21 (illegal immigrant) (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#21), #27 (study abroad) (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#27), #49 (young applicant) (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715#49), #75 (young applicant) (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#75), #55 (schools with different start date) (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=2#55), #102 (previous matriculation at DO school) (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=410715&page=3#102)

PM oxeye if any of these links do not work! Thank you!

Hi there,

Welcome to the medical school admissions thread! This is the place for you to ask questions about the application/interview process and find out what med schools might be looking for in an applicant.

A little about me --- I'm a second-year med student and a member of my school's admissions committee. I routinely evaluate, interview, and present applicants at admissions committee meetings.

So, start asking questions and I'll do my best to give you a prompt and accurate answer! There will also be other mentors providing advice in this thread. :thumbup:

Hello. I am an Emergency Physician. I served on the Admissions Comm. for 4 years at my medical school. I was also a non-traditional, having worked in a completely unrelated field prior to going to medical school.


Welcome!

Greetings. I am a practicing physician and medical school faculty at a private, research-oriented medical school in the US. I have 10 years of service on the medical school admissions committee and considerable experience at evaluating applications for a range of academic positions at all levels.


Update: May 9, 2007: As I have two other threads I am actively "leading", and there are other mentors for this thread, I will not continue to actively follow and respond here although I may do so on occasion. You can find me on the academic medicine thread.

Hello to all of you. Like Tildy, I am an adcom member at a private, research-oriented medical school. I am not a physician but I am a faculty member in the basic sciences. I look forward to fielding questions from medical school applicants on issues involving the application and interview process.

Hi Adcomms,

I have a question, but I think I already know what the answer will be. To give you some background, I'm a senior who is applying for the 2008 cycle. During my year off I will be doing biomed research at the NIH. I have a decent GPA 3.7 Chem, so-so MCAT 28, but a lot of EC's + leaderships, and I am URM if that matters (I've done URM related volunteer work). Anyway, to get to the point, during my first 8 weeks of school freshman year I got into trouble at the dorms, once for a marijuana related incidence. The marijuana incidence resulted in a misdemeanor being put on my record (first crime ever). To say the least this was a traumatizing event for me because everyone told me my chances at med school were just destroyed, and to some degree I gave up on my medical aspirations for the next semester. I toyed around with possibly majoring in other health professions, but I still felt drawn toward medicine, and I knew I wouldn’t be satisfied with any other profession. So I figured I have to try, and over the next three years I was academically solid, extremely involved in campus organizations, volunteer, and stayed far away from drinking/smoking ect. So now I'm at the point where I'm ready to apply, I have already prepared a statement for my "Disciplinary Action" essay on AMCAS, and I know when I fill out secondaries and I have to answer YES to (ever been charged with misdemeanor/felony) and I’m not afraid at all to talk about the incident during interviews (if I get any).

But I just want to know will I be immediately "blacklisted" by ADCOMMS? Will schools even give me a chance?

I understand the harsh realities of the process, 5000+ applicants for 100 spots, and probably 4950 of the applicants have clean records(or are lying), so why should they take someone who is "flawed"?

Anyway, I am already applying with the expectation of not getting in anywhere, but is there anything I can do to improve my application, and take focus away from this incident?

BTW: I'm not applying to ultra-competitive schools, just my state schools and a few URM friendly Out of state schools.

thanks in advance,

Bassfisher

Speaking for just one school, I would not expect you to be blacklisted for a single marijuana incident in your freshman year. If you explain what you learned from this incident and how it contributed to your growth and maturity, you may find that you will be offered interviews/admission despite your flaw.

I am a junior nursing student to plans to finish my junior year and then switch my major to liberal arts. I am doing this becuase I really want to be a doctor not a nurse i realized this a month ago. Do you think that that a admissions commitee will look at this with shame?

No. The admissions committee will see the nursing courses you've taken but will note that you graduated as a liberal arts major. Of course, you will explain your path to medicine in your personal statement.

I am looking to apply to both MD and DO schools this coming application cycle. I have a unique problem with my GPA. I have a low undergrad GPA and science gpa (that part is not unique!). Both are 3.0. The logical response to a undergrad gpa problem is to take postbacc courses. Retake all of the low grades. However...I have a master's degree in biology. (I have a 3.9 there, but I know that doesn't count the same as the undergrad GPA)

During my master's I was a TA and there had to RE-LEARN all of the classes I did poorly in since I was teaching the lab portions. My three C's on my science gpa come from BIO I, BIO II and Anatomy. Since I was a TA in those labs, I actually sat in on all of the lectures on my own time. Essentially learned everything I didn't learn the first time around...and more. For the past three years I have been working as an instructor at the community college level. Here's my problem...my three lowest undergrad science grades (the one's most people would just go back and retake...) I TEACH! So I know the material backwards and forwards...NOW.

So, is my gpa a complete non-starter? Does the fact that I now teach these classes that I once did so poorly in help me at all? My MCATs reflect my knowledge of biology, when I take the practice tests I usually don't miss a single biology question (but the orgo is another story...so I won't have a 15 on my BS section).

What do I do?

Here's hoping that the undergrad 3.0 combined with the M.S. 3.9 and a MCAT bio score of 13 or more is going to pique someone's interest and that your application will be read in full, and you will seem like someone who is worthy of an interview. You may have a good shot at mid-range schools that are open to non-trad students.

I need some advice. When I was in college (top 5 college), I had a series of unforunate events that affected my gpa. I was raped and sexually assualted my freshman year and my grandfather died. These events severely shakened my self esteem and I had trouble performing at the level I was capable of. Basically, I had a series of dropped science classes and non sci classes. The highest grade I recieved in a science course was 2 B's and the lowest 1 D. I was very depressed for much of my college experience. It worsened with the death of both of my grandmother's from alzheimer's my junior and senior year. I hit a low point and I ended up graduating from my college(2006) with a 2.5-2.6 gpa in a non science major. Now, I am working at one of the top UCs and taking classes to bring my gpa up. So far, I have As. In addition, I am volunteering in a alzheimer's clinic. I know I have several red flags for admissions commitees and an uphill battle. What would be the best way to overcome a history like this? I have always wanted to be a doctor but the last few years have been rough for me.

Hi:

It's impossible to pick one path that will get you to medical school. However, my recommendation is to consider working for a couple of years while continuing to build up volunteer, community service and taking the MCAT. Others here are more expert at various programs such as master's programs, etc and could comment on these, although I generally would be less convinced of their value for you except to retake classes in which you had a very low grade. The folks on the non-trad forum often have good advice on these type of things. From my perspective, when looking at applications from students with bad college grades related to life events, what matters is that they have gone forward in life and are ready to tackle medical school. This can take a few years. Success at a job (does not have to be medical, but continue medical activities such as shadowing, volunteering) and a well-written personal statement can give you the best chance. A great MCAT will help too. Good luck!

Hi there!

I have recently been accepted to two medical schools, Georgetown and University of Miami, Boca Raton campus. I'm trying to decide which to attend, and I'd love some objective advice.

UM at Boca Raton is only a three hour drive from my immediate family and boyfriend and offers Problem Based Learning (I believe 100% PBL) for the first two years. It has a small class size of 32, which I like, and is pretty new so it's technologically very advanced with an entire building for computer simulated dummies for practicing procedures on. The downside, I think, is that it is in suburban Boca Raton which is:
1.) Not a very exciting place to live
2.) Has a limited demographic of elderly, wealthy people, which I translate to reduced exposure to pathology and diversity.

Georgetown didn't impress me immediately when I went there (partly because I was set on going to Boca until I received admission to Georgetown) but I've been thinking about it more and I'm leaning towards going there. I like that it's in an urban setting so I have more exposure to pathology, more diversity, and a more enjoyable social life. I don't like that it has so many students compared to Boca, is less technologically advanced, and doesn't center on PBL.

I've never lived outside of Florida before so I'm excited to make a big change in my life and live in a new, different place. But I'm worried that my reasons for leaning towards Georgetown aren't as strong as the reasons why Boca would be better.

Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks!!

These are personal decisions based on personal preferences regarding curriculum, location, cost, proximity to a support system, class size (do you like a very small town where you know everyone?) and all the rest.

I will just make one comment about your assumptions regarding pathology. If anything, an older population is going to present with more pathology because the incidence and prevalence of just about every disease increases with age. Take the top 20 causes of death in America. Aside from a dearth of homicides in Palm Beach County, you are going to see a little (or a lot) of everything in Boca. Georgetown might have a little more "exotic" and tropical disease because of the diplomatic community and international travelers but Boca has its own influx of travelers as well.

Hello :) I was wondering if anyone on admissions committees above would be willing to read through my personal statement because I have never really gotten an feedback from advisors or anyone who knows about admissions, only friends and family. If not that's okay too, I just figured it wouldn't hurt to ask :o

Would any of the esteemed members of the panel be willing to review my PS? I am at an impasse, and would appreciate some input. Thanks.


We are not able to have mentors read personal statements.

hello there,

last summer..i decided to take summer school to knock out some credits to lighten up my course load for the following semester at university. however, i had a rough summer and was not able to successfully complete the courses which ended up showing F's on the community colleges transcript. however, i decided not to send the transcript to my university because i didnt want to use the credits. when i was working out my class schedule for next semester, i was talking to a professor of mine and she said that medical schools see all the transcripts you have ever had..including the community college one that i choose not to send to the university. is that true? i dont see how that is possible when i choose who can and who cant view it. also, if medical schools ask on the application for all transcripts or whatever they ask..do i ever have to mention about the transcript from my community college even if i didnt transfer the credits to my university?

AMCAS requires that you show all college level work and provide transcripts. Failure to do so can result in revocation of offers of admission.

I guess this is where I post a question.

Throughout the forum posters are always debating whether no trads shoudl take a full load, or if two science classes at a time are okay. The latter seems to be the majority because of family/work/commitments and taking a full load just isn't feasable. Right now I am taking 8 credits (two classes), I am taking BIO I and BIO II over the summer, which is everyday so it is close to full time. Next fall I am signed up for ORGO and Physics, but I wanted to take another science with a lab to have 12 credits, which would make me full time, at least in my schools eyes. I would still have to work but I could cut it down a little bit to focus more on school.

I guess my question is, do admissions boards really consider how many courses you take during a semester? Do they understand that non trad students have to work a lot as well and gain that important health care experience? I am sure it varies from school to school, but what have been your experiences with courseloads in applicants? (BTW, I need to show improvement from my poor undergrad GPA. <3.0 Been looking into SMP's as well.)

The adcom asks the question: is there evidence that this applicant can handle the workload of medical school? Doing poorly as an undergrad but better when taking only 2 courses per quarter doesn't fully answer the question. Yes, it is clear that you are working and going to school but you will be expected to attend school full-time as a medical student. Again, the question comes back to, will you be able to handle that workload?

I currently work as a pharm tech on the weekends. How good would a letter of rec. from a Pharm.D look to adcoms? Should I even bother submitting it when the time comes?

Thanks

It would look the same as just about any other letter. If the Pharm.D knows you well and wrote a strong letter, I would go ahead and submit it! It can't hurt and would probably help. Note that this would count as an extra letter and shouldn't replace the letters from professors of courses you took. :thumbup:

My situation might be confusing but please bear with me.

I've been accepted to UCLA by a special program with UC Riverside. At the same time, UCLA proper waitlisted me. What differentiates these two programs is that in the former I would spend my pre-clinical years in Riverside, in the latter at Los Angeles. The main UCLA program is my top choice and has been my dream school for a long time, and I'd love to attend. I will be attending UCLA's second-look where I will have the opportunity to hear presentations by several of the admission committee members as they try to convince us to come to their school.

Will it reflect poorly on me if I go out of my way to talk to them briefly and explain my situation and strong desire to go to their med school? I doubt many people are in a similar situation and given your perspective, I figure you can offer the best advice to me. Thank you for your help!

I wouldn't do it! It would be inappropriate at the school's second-look weekend. You've already been accepted to the UCR/UCLA program, so it would come across as ungrateful.

I have a question concerning whether or not I should do a postbacc program.

My gpa is a 3.35 largely due to two years in which I had major mitigating family circumstances. During my sophomore and Junior years, my gpa was 2.5 which was a large drop from the 3.9 I had freshman year. I decided to stay an extra year in college so I could increase my gpa and have since earned a 4.0 that last two years. I am also a president's scholar at my university which is a fullride scholarship awarded to CA high school valedictorians. Anyways, some advisors strongly discourage me from doing a postbacc and believe that my academic excellence my final two years will suffice, while a med school admissions advisor suggested I do a postbacc to increase my gpa.

How do you believe I should handle the situation? Thanks a lot for the advice.

I agree with the med school admissions officer. A 3.35 GPA doesn't necessarily mean that you'll automatically be rejected from every school, but it will definitely limit you when applying. The upward trend is good, but it doesn't compensate for the low GPA. Good luck!

Recently, I made an important decision to pursue a career in medicine after being accepted into dental school. It is a decision that I have personally struggled with for several years, both fields in my opinion are very rewarding. However, with my graduate studies in public health I have come to appreciate the holistic approach to health found in medicine. In addition, I feel that medicine would allow me to fulfill my desire to reach a larger proportion of the underserved community with varying healthcare needs.

Do you feel that my choice to pursue a career in medicine after being accepted into dental school would be looked upon negatively by the admissions committee? Do you feel I should explain this decision in my personal statement?

I wouldn't use the PS to explain a negative, but instead would focus on the positive - why you decided to do medicine. However, I am assuming here that before you apply to medical school, you will have shadowed a physician and otherwise had experiences that will make it clear that you have a committment to medicine.

"Career changing" at all steps of the process is extremely common. It is potentially a negative in that it can indicate uncertainly and lack of committment to any one field. On the other hand, it can be "turned" positive by a clear set of experiences that are described in the PS explaining the change. This explanation will help get the interview. In the interview is when you will be on the spot and need to be clear about what you had originally decided and how and why you changed your mind. If you can tell a solid story, you will win over the committee.

Good luck!

Hi, all. I'm not sure if this thread is the right place to ask these questions, but it seemed the most appropriate.

I am going to be attending medical school starting this August (regular M.D. program). I would really love the opportunity to serve on my medical school's admissions committee starting second year (I'll assume they don't take MSI students). When should I start looking into this? Is there an application and interview process? What do admissions committees look for in potential student members? I know the details will vary per school, but even general answers would be great.

As you might have guessed, I am very interested in a career in academic medicine. But, I don't think laboratory research is for me. I tried research in two different labs as an undergrad (in two different disciplines) and didn't truly enjoy either experience. From what I know, though, lab. research is pretty much a pre-requisite for going into academic medicine. Is this true? If so, is there any other way to make myself academic-medicine worthy?

Thank you very much in advance,

Kfire326

I think there is so much variability in how student adcoms are selected that it is impossible to give a general answer. I suspect that at most schools, volunteering to give tours, a positive attitude towards the school, etc is helpful, but you should wait until you start and find out specific info for your school.

The part that I wanted to answer was aobut lab research and academic medicine. If only lab researchers (what you probably mean is "basic science" researchers) were academic faculty, there wouldn't be many faculty members at most medical schools! There is plenty of room for those who do research more clinically oriented, those who are education, not research oriented, etc. It tremendously depends on what medical school and whether one is on a research or clinical/educator "track." All of this is beyond the scope of this anwer, but you can talk to folks about it when you start. Finally, don't entirely give up on "lab" research - you might find something you like that is more clinically oriented at a later stage of your training.

I note for the other mentors that the OP wished more than one mentor opinions if possible. Feel free to add!

Hello

Im posting here because i need some advice on a problem i have. Im currently and under grad student at a University in Texas majoring in chemistry (biochem really but still under chemistry), i have a 3.92 gpa, and im about to finish my softmore year. I'm usually the top student in every class. I have the utmost burning desire to get into a med school in Texas such as Baylor but the thing is, Iam an illegal immigrant. My parents and i moved here when i was 5 years old and have lived here ever since and because of strict immigration laws i still have been unable to become a resident or citizen. And becoming one in the future is still unlikely, unless i get married (very unlikely, not that im ugly though...lol...i kid :laugh:) or an immigration reform is passed. Because of this, my life has been full of such disadvantages and struggles, not including the emotional stress, that the pursuit of my education has always been an uphill battle. Just the mere fact that im in college is an achievement for me in itself. I get absolutely no help, no financial aid, no scholarships...nothing. I cant even apply to med internships for the summer. All these things that the rest of the kids take for granted i get absolutely nothing of. My parents and i alone provide for my education. And yes...we pay taxes too. I'm extremely dedicated to school and i know ill have a strong gpa and MCAT score in th end to show for it. Would a medical school in Texas or anywhere in in the U.S. ever consider accepting a person like myself?

There are 2 questions here. First, can a medical school legally accept you - especially with regard to Texas schools and the requirements they may have to take state residents and the second is, assuming this is possible, would they be interested in you given your background.

The first of course requires answer by an immigration lawyer and the schools themselves. I am sure you realize this, but ultimately you must address your status with an immigration attorney and get opinions as to how to change your status if this is possible and what you should do about your status.

The second is likely yes. I do not believe a medical school would hold your status as an illegal immigrant as a child against you as an adult. The schools would ask how you resolved this situation, but would not likely hold it as a negative per se. You still would need to meet all other criteria for acceptance beyond your good GPA. You should be up-front about the situation throughout the process.

I'm a third-year student who started off as a double major in psychology and philosophy, with a focus on neuroscience and cognitive psych. I didn't work as hard as I probably should have in my basic sciences, and ended up getting a lot more Bs in those than I probably should. My cumulative GPA will end up being around 3.7, but I have Bs in things like organic chemistry, physics, etc... with As in the more biological classes like bio, genetics, and physiology.

My question is this: I'm heavily interested in international health and working in underserved parts of the world and the United States. I've been able to do work with several organizations around the world, and have learned a lot about myself and about the realities of trying to create health infrastructure where none exists, and about providing care to people in places like that. I'm concerned that this work will come across as "voluntourism", or something that I did purely for the sake of impressing admissions committees rather than something I'm passionate about. Should I just hope that my focus shines through in my PS and interviews?

Also, if I don't think I'll get in (e.g. if my BPCM GPA isn't above 3.6 when I graduate), would doing a MPH after undergrad be a reasonable two years-off project, or would I be better served by an MS? My alternative idea would be doing work with a group like Americorps. My strengths lie in things like designing systems and figuring out flaws in existant ones... but I feel like I need to demonstrate incredible aptitude in hard sciences to shine out. Is there a place for people who might be exceptional clinicians without being able to get straight As in physics? Thanks for any advice you can give me.

I will principally address the second paragraph. Other mentors may wish to weigh in more on the last paragraph. International volunteering is a very common characteristic of applicants. It is common wisdom that this volunteerism 1) Will automatically lead to admission due to the humanity demonstrated AND 2) Will automatically lead to rejection due to adcom cynicism about the reasons for it.

In my experience, veteran adcom members are pretty good at exploring the experience DURING the interview and understanding what you did, why you did it and what you gained from it. It neither guarantees admission or rejection and like many other experiences, it is how you have applied and wish to apply the knowledge that matters. In an interview, a detailed exploration of the experience can help sort these out and convince the adcom of your sincerity. Can adcoms be fooled either way? Sure, but not as often as many would suspect.:)

On the other hand, in the PS, it is more difficult to explore these issues and it is easier to make an adcom reader suspect "voluntourism" (a great new word, just added to my vocabulary). In this case, it is best to discuss what you did, why you did it and what you learned, but not make it the entire focus of your PS or imply that you are a better applicant than others who did not have the abililty (or $$) to do this. Save the details for the interview. The international experiences should be explained in the context of your education and overall volunteer/shadowing background.

[moderator - feel free to edit, trim, whatever you feel appropriate...putting all out there to minimize ambiguity and maximize clarity for response. thanks]

First, thanks for taking the time and to SDN for the medium...

Regarding: mcat timing, application timing, etc with recent development of wife's high-risk pregnancy.

Background:
30yo married (with supportive spouse regarding educational endeavors) white M. Long, drawn out undergrad with early poor performance, dispersed enrollment and many transfers of schools (5 actually). No specific reasons other than lack of both direction and interest in education, as well as taking a while to "grow up" - all of which are now resolved.:thumbup:

After taking a small break (from about 00 - 02) I enrolled in a state univ and I now have one more semester until completion of BA in Business Finance. I have taken all science prereq's. My BA and prereq's have all been taken at the same institution and all within the last 5 years. The reasoning for this time period is due to work requirements and one semester off. Average semester for last 4 years have been 12-15 hours and working full time (around 60 - 70 hours week). Major GPA: 3.2, Science GPA: ~3.3 (I have not had AAMC calculate it), Cumul GPA: 2.8 (due to early poor performance). Last 2 years GPA: 3.1

As for work - critical care paramedic for 10 years. I work both as a ground paramedic as well as a flight paramedic for a level one trauma center so I have a moderate amount of exposure to medicine (at least the emergency aspect...no other discipline really). I am involved with our Trauma Services Research Committee and have recently started, and am heading, a research group for our Emergency Medical Services Division for prehospital research.

I have one clinical research paper regarding cervical spine injuries in the process of being published, another laboratory research paper that I will be submitting for oral/poster with ultimate publication on EMS pharmaceutical degredation and have been published a couple of times on articles for medical CEU's. I also guest lecture for paramedic classes (typically advanced cardiology and pharmacology, 12/15-lead interpretation, and EMS research methods) at three local colleges.

Issue at hand: As of last week my wife and I face a high-risk pregancy (20 weeks in now) requiring some near-term invasive procedures which require some traveling. If all goes well it will be only one more week with relatively normal progression until delivery (end aug - beg sep due). In order for the procedure to be performed, we have to hit some magic chemistries....otherwise it will be an unfortunate result. (BTW, luckily we are well-insured and the medical expenses should not significantly impact my eligibility for educational financing).

I was planning on taking the May 11th MCAT in order to have results back by early June for application. I have now rescheduled for the June 15th in order to be more available for my wife as well as finish preparing for the test.

From the panel I am requesting any observations and/or suggestions in regard to the application process that you may have to my situation. My major concern is this: Because of my earlier poor and disorganized academic performance (and resulting lower overall GPA) and marginal current GPA, my "attack" for admissions was going to be placing more emphasis on clinical experience and research, letters of recommendation, competitive MCAT scores, and early application. Unfortunately, I will not be able to get the early application "early bird worm" that everyone speaks of.

What is the best way to minimize the effects of not being able to apply right off the bat...or applying without MCAT scores immediately available? Obviously, I will apply as soon as I possibly can. What I don't want to happen is for my application to be automatically discarded b/c of delayed MCAT scores and evidence of poor academics.

Thanks

-dg

dg:

The striking part of your story is the high-risk pregnancy you face. My best advice is to not take the MCAT now and wait another year around. Any attempt to explain a bad score based on this personal situation would lead to questions about your priorities. Get through the pregnancy, hopefully with a good outcome, support your wife in every way possible during and after this time period, and then return to preparing to make yourself the best candidate for medical school.

Good luck and our thoughts are with you and your wife during this difficult time period.

Hi. I just want to start by thanking all the moderators for their help and time. I am a hispanic american who is contemplating getting a degree in Spanish. I wanted to know how an admissions commitee would look at this.
There are 2 main reason that I would like to do this.

1. I want to become a physician and practice internationally. My family is from Honduras and my wifes is from Guatemala. My parents and I have been doing medical mission work in Central America and the Carribean for over 15 years with physicians from our church. My desire would be to work 4 months of the year in honduras, Guatemala, and the US(I would like to go into EM). I have never had issues speaking the language( I speak it at home all the time) but I have had issues writing it and to a degree reading it. If I want to work in a country were Spanish is the primary language, I want to not only speak it well, but also read and write it well. I know that studying it will help me tremendously, especially since I would be working in the medical field(which is hard enough to understand the terminology in English never mind in Spanish).

2. I want to get the best grades possible and I know I will do very well in this major.

Please let me know what you think and again your help is greatly appreciated!! God bless.

It is impossible for any one adcom member or several members to give general answers to how all adcom members will see an application.

However, consider your plan from the perspective of the person reading your application or interviewing you. If your primary college work is in a language in which you are already fluent, is this demonstrating your being challenged (as medicine will do) even if your grades are good? An adcom is likely to look to your science grades as better indicators of your skills and your preparation for a medical curriculum. Although a fluent Spanish speaker can certainly improve their Spanish via classwork, whether that is the optimal college major is questionable.

Also, although your committment to international health care is admirable, you should carefully consider the type of plans you have for this before applying. How would you arrange to do 4 months of each year in each of three countries? Even as an EM physician this is not simple to arrange in terms of licenses, coverage, malpractice and of course, salary and promotion. Do you know any doctors who do this? No one expects medical school applicants to have their future planned out, but a sense of the practical nature of ones plans is often evaluated.


Meanwhile, I encourage you to concentrate on a course of studies that you enjoy and will further your career goals via the knowledge gained.

Hi,
I sent a question in a couple days ago, was it received? Or should I resend it?Thanks

Dear Daydreamer2008:

Unfortunately, as with any Q and A format, not all posed questions can be answered. In my initial post, I explained which type of questions I felt best suited to answer. Time is a constraint as well. Lack of an answer doesn't mean it was a bad or unreasonable question, just that (speaking for myself), I didn't feel it was a question I could answer.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read and answer. I would like feedback on how adcoms may perceive the fact that I decided to leave my Ph.D. program with a master’s degree in order to apply to medical school. My background: 25 y.o. Caucasian female, BA in biochemistry, 3.76 overall, 3.85 BCMP, taking the MCAT in May. Was a traditional pre-med for first two years of undergrad. Between 2nd and 3rd year of UG, I worked as a research assistant in neurology clinical trials, spending 60% of my time shadowing and 40% doing trial-related work. Through this experience and my clinical volunteer work, I found that I absolutely loved working in a clinical setting. However, I had many physicians tell me “you better make sure this is what you really want and there isn’t anything else you’d rather do because a clinical medicine career is an enormous commitment.” I was fairly certain there wasn’t anything else I’d rather do than be a physician, but I hadn’t pursued any other possibilities, so I found myself wondering how I could be so sure that the MD route was really what I wanted. Through the clinical trials position, I also witnessed first-hand the power of what research can do for patients, so I decided to do an undergrad research project and see if basic science might be a viable option for me. I liked my UG research project and ended up applying to Ph.D. programs. In hindsight, this was a hasty decision, as I’d had only about 5 months of research under my belt at the time of application, but you know what they say about hindsight. Anyway, I found in graduate school that a year of part-time undergrad research is very different from a career in basic science, and none of the career options for someone with a Ph.D appealed to me. In my graduate program, we had the unique opportunity in our coursework to interact with patients, and I realized I greatly missed the patient interaction aspect of my clinical work. It was a very tough decision for me to not finish my Ph.D., and it was not a decision I took lightly. I am well aware of the resources my program and my PI have put into training me, and I felt enormously guilty that they wasted their resources on someone who would not be finishing her degree. But in the end, I decided that finishing my Ph.D. would not get me to my goal of being a physician any faster. My program and my PI have been incredibly supportive of my decision, but I am still concerned what adcoms may think about someone leaving a Ph.D. program without a Ph.D.

Every situation is different and this is the type of situation that adcoms can have vastly different responses to so it is difficult to generalize. There will be a tendency to wonder if you can commit to something after dropping out. BUT, the fact you competed the masters will mitigate this. In your PS and your interviews, do not try to avoid this issue but don't focus on it either. Focus on how you like research, believe in it, may wish to ultimately pursue it, but felt that a masters was all you needed at this point to meet your career goals.

Tell a positive story about where you've been and are going and this won't be a deal-breaker. There is always a chance that somewhere, one or more interviewers won't like it and will not rate you highly, so apply broadly. Personally, when I hear this type of story, as long as the student seems sincere in where they are going, I do not have a strong negative response.

Hello to all. I have a quick question about discussing one's study abroad experiences:

I do not plan to use my primary essay (for AMCAS) to incorporate my study abroad experiences and I don't think it would fit in the EC section of the application. I am curious to know if secondaries typically give one an opportunity to discuss studying abroad in the secondary. I am also curious to know how adcomms typically view study abroad experiences.

Thanks...I definitely have more questions that I will ask at a later

Study abroad programs have become ubiquitous and are neither a strong positive or negative in my evaluation. They pose a basis to start a conversation and explore the reasons that the applicant made the choice to travel for their education. It can be a good chance to find out something about the applicant and their understanding of the global community, but is not a major aspect of how I evaluate an application in most cases.

Hi, and thanks for taking the time to read this:)

I'm a PhD candidate in chemistry (doing biology) at a research university in the US. In theory, my finishing date will be next spring (2008) and I'm planning on applying this cycle (starting med school in fall 2008). My UG GPA is a 3.7, BCMP is about the same. I had wanted to be a doctor and changed directions during my undergrad- now my research and my volunteering are bringing me back to medicine.

My question is this: I've been volunteering long term (3 years) at a nursing home in the area and teaching science lessons at a nearby school, and have been shadowing a physician for about a year. Do I need to have more "clinical" experience (which is a suggestion I see around here a lot), or does the duration of the activity count for something?

Thanks!

-chem


The important thing is that your clinical experiences are meaningful and that you are able to express this in your applications and interviews. Quality is better than quantity! Looks pretty good to me. :)

Hello. I'm looking for some advice on the timeline of my situation and strength of the path I'll take to get ready for the application process. I'm 24 and a career changer. I entered college with the idea of medical school in the back of my head (tons of science class prep and volunteering in high school) and therefore registered for biology, but I ended up pursuing a film/tv major instead, as it's a serious hobby of mine. Now that I've been working as a sports tv freelancer for 3 years, however, I know medical school would've been the right choice from the beginning. My situation right now is this:

Overall GPA: 3.14. Started out low but went uphill after freshman year.
Science GPA: zero. I kick myself now for withdrawing from bio and taking a W.
My EC's aren't bad but are all arts/athletic related, and the only medical volunteer experience I have is from high school.

I started this semester taking two UG science courses and will have a 4.0 when it's over, will take more this summer, and I'm starting a post bacc in the fall to finish my prereqs and take some upper level bio courses. I've started volunteering again at the children's hospital here and am currently looking for both allopathic and osteopathic physicians to shadow to help me decide which I'd like to pursue.

First of all, I wonder: How damaging is my undergrad background? Is the W a red flag? What does having no science GPA after college say, and it is a good thing that I'm starting with a virtual clean slate now (minus that W...)? I'm doing the work and getting the grades now what I would've done 6 years ago if only I'd had my head on straight!

Secondly: I want to complete my prerequisites in the 2007-2008 year, apply for fall 2009, and spend the gap year taking more classes. I'll continue to volunteer during this time and would like to be involved in research in some way since it's what I know least about at this point and have some areas I'd like to explore. Is this too short a timeline? I'll have been back in school 3 semesters plus a summer session before applying.

Of course I'll be doing everything I can to score well on the MCAT, and I plan to apply to my state school and a range of others. Thanks for any advice you can offer.

You have a typical road for a non-traditional. The timeline seems OK. The W is nothing to worry about. Good luck.

Hello,

Verbal reasoning has been very problematic during my preparation for the MCAT. The highest reccurent score I've had is 7. Well on 1 of the 14 full lengths I've practiced with, I scored a 10 for this section. But sadly more recent scores have been closer to 5. Due to this problem, my highest composite was 27 which was in late March. Later scores have been 23-25.

Hoping to exceed my upper range I sat for the April 16 adminsitration of the MCAT today. With only 7 minutes left I had 3 passages remaining. In fear of receiving a composite of 25 or lower, I painfully voided the expensive exam.

My question is whether this was the right decision? Would a composite score of about 25 be an acceptable applicant to an allopathic medical school in the United States? I would be honored to go to any school here. My other stats are an overall GPA of 3.53 and a science GPA higher than this. I am also a nontrad, 26YO, graduated with a Bachelor's degree in nursing. I've spent about 3 years on a cardiac care unit and in the ICU. Been a couple medical missions. After my time spent in the clinical setting, I really really really want to become a doc.

Any feedback you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

A low verbal is a red flag that can derail an otherwise good application. It is obvious that you need to learn some strategies for doing well on the verbal section and lots of practice. An individual tutor, perhaps a professional teacher who moonlights, might be a good choice for you. Folks on the MCAT forum might have other ideas about ways in which you can work on this problem area before you take the exam.

Greetings,

I have heard that many medical schools tend to prefer applicants that graduate from certain universities, if so, which universities are generally preferred?

And what is the truth about how community colleges and community college pre-med students are viewed by med schools?

Thank you.

Some adcom members and some interviewers may have preferences. These preferences tend to be moderated by the group dynamic of a med school adcom so that in the end "medical schools" don't have preferences.

However, you may notice that some schools seem to take many students from a particular school. What you can't know if the denominator; that is: how many applicants apply from that school. Students at some UG schools tend to prefer specific medical schools because of their location, prestige, familiarity, etc and will tend to apply to those schools over others. Some UG schools have very high admission standards and do a good job of weeding out weak students. The students at these schools are almost always academically strong and well prepared. Applicants at those schools tend to have a good chance of admission -- it isn't that the school is preferred but that the applicants at those schools are usually very talented and well prepared.

I have seen very impressive applications from students who started at community college and transferred after 2 years. This is fine, particularly for students with situations that precluded admission to a good undergrad school right out of H.S. What raises an eyebrow is the applicant from a strong undergrad instititution who takes a well known "weed-out" course over the summer at a community college rather than at his undergrad institution. An adcom can differentiate someone who is trying to protect a gpa from someone who has economic or family issues that preclude matriculation at a four year institution.

Hi, I'm a junior majoring in Biology and I am worried about my gpa. I currently have a 3.52 which, due to overshooting this semester will most likely drop to the 3.45 range. I have shadowed and done some volunteering. I will be applying over the summer. I have not taken the MCAT yet (May 25th) and was wondering what score would give me a reasonable chance of getting into allopathic schools. Is my gpa just too low? Thanks for your help!

Your best bet is to buy a copy (or borrow) a copy of the MSAR and start looking at school stats. For every 0.10 your gpa is below a school's avg gpa for matriculants, you need to score an additional point on the MCAT above that school's average MCAT for matriculants.

In other words: let's say a med school has an average gpa of 3.65 and an average MCAT of 30.

You have a gpa of 3.45 (-0.2 less than the avg at the med school). An MCAT of 32 or better would moderate your slightly below avg gpa.

This has me concerned. I attended a 4 year university but took summer school classes (med school pre-reqs) at the community college near my home. This was because I changed to pre-med just before my spring semester junior year and that Spring I was studying abroad. When I returned I took the second half of chem and second half of physics at my CC in the summer (both at the same time, requiring 8+ hr of classes a day because due to being out of the country and the start of my senior yr, it could only be done during one summer semester). It was not easy at all and it was the only way I could get it done and graduate on time. After graduating this May I will retake orgo 1 (due to a poor grade; yes I know that will hurt) and take orgo 2 for the first time at the same CC during the summer. How much will taking these 4 courses in summer school hurt me? It is really the only thing that worked and even though my parents are not poor by national economic standards, why should I have to pay to go to a more expensive school or pay to live away from home? Med school will cost a fortune and I will need to take out loans, so I am trying to be as economical as possible now. Don't med school adcomms understand that? I am not trying to find an easy way out. Besides, other than my orgo class, one of my summer school classes was the most difficult course I have ever taken and required the most amount of work ever.

Sad fact: Compared with classmates who took their pre-reqs at your school, your application will look weaker. The more highly ranked your UG institution, the worse the CC classes will look. You can attempt to explain in your PS.

Most people equate community college with low quality (perhaps because admission standards are generally low). As with many other things, you get what you pay for and if you want a transcript that shows that you got a high quality education, it is going to cost some money. :(

Adcom members,

I've take the MCAT twice with the highest score of 29 (11v, 10ps, 8 bio). I have a 3.2 science GPA from university of chicago and attending the georgetown SMP program in the fall. While my stats aren't impressive they are just ok, thus i was unsuccessfull this application year. Do you think i need to retake the MCAT or is the chance of doing worst too great to take it again? I'm completly in the middle ground here, since my scores could go up or down. But if it is not a strong enough score then my choice is obvious.

I have two years of consulting experience post college, collegiate football, clinical research, and volunteer actively in the community. My goal is to attend UIC medical (IL resident). Their averages are 10s across the board and 3.5 GPA. Any advice on if I need to take the MCAT again would be appreciated. Thanks

Yes, you need to retake. Shoot for bringing the Bio section to not less than 10 and maybe pull an extra point on the Physical Science or Verbal section. That should bring you high up enough on the MCAT to make up for the poor gpa (although being from U Chicago may get you a little traction).

I was recently waitlisted at my top school. In your opinions, what are the best actions to ensure you are doing everything possible to get accepted off of the waitlist? How often should you contact the school? Do schools really care about letters of interest, or are letters of update more important? I plan on sending everything possible, update letters, additional letters of recommendation as well as a letter describing why the school is my top choice. What else would you recommend?

This varies by school; contact the school where you are waitlisted and ask a about that school's preferences.

:luck:

I am fortunate to have one acceptance, however I am also teased with a handful of waitlists. I interviewed very early in process mostly between september and october, with one in December. I have no post interview rejections. I was just wondering what I could expect as waitlist movement occurs. People that get waitlisted later in the cycle usually have a better justification since the schools may be filled up at that point. I was wondering if I can really keep my hopes up in that I can beat out all the later applicants, or that Im not a good enough interviewer to overcome this.

Schools may vary but as far as I know, the interview date does not factor into decisions to take applicants from the waitlist.

Waitlist means qualified for admission but "second string". The "first string" tends to have multiple offers and must decline all but one of them. Schools that can't fill the class with "first string" applicants goes to its bench (waitlist). When you made the team and got benched doesn't matter. Let the schools know that you are in shape and ready to play and you may get the call.

Is the subjects Anatomy and Physiology required for med school admissions? I was looking over UC Davis' requirments, and it says 1 year Biology, and people here say that its not really covered on the MCAT. So should it be taken?

Schools vary in what is required. Most (all) schools require one year of biology. You may take anatomy and physiology in addition to a year of biology but not as a substitute for the general biology course which generally covers cells, genes and so forth.

Then does that mean that CC courses will be counted negativley if I was a transfer student??? :scared:

If you started at a CC and transferred to a 4 year institution the fact CC courses will not be counted against you. If you had about the same gpa at both schools that's great. If you had a lower gpa at the 4 year institution the adcom may count that lower gpa as if it were your total gpa; you won't get a bump for having taken cc courses. (If your cc gpa was 3.95 and your later gpa was 3.60 the adcom may consider the 3.60 a better indication of your achievement).

<snip> How unfair to think I had an easy time and my grade was padded. It is so far from the truth and I'm sure I would have done better in my own UG university. How do I resolve this? How do I say something in my PS without sounding bitter or like I'm blaming anyone. (I got a B+ btw.)

A B+ will hardly raise an eyebrow or get noticed, positively or negatively by an adcom. You can certainly mention that you came to a decision to do medicine late in the game and had to scramble to take the pre-reqs without sounding bitter.

Hi Mentors!

I'm an international student at a top-ten school who will be applying to med school this coming cycle. I have three questions:

1) How do adcoms view extensive leadership experience at college? I've heard that clinical/research experience are very important, but I haven't heard anything about student leadership. I lead a couple global health and peer mentoring student groups, and I've worked really, really hard on them the past three years doing things such as developing curricula for awareness of health issues and mentoring incoming students to cope with college life.

2) I am applying this coming cycle, and will obtain most of my clinical experience over the coming summer through a medical trip to Africa and assisting nurses in the HIV/AIDS ward of a hospital. Is it acceptable to note these activities in my primary application (which I will submit before either of these activities start)? I ask because I have no other clinical experience (besides shadowing, if that counts) to speak of. I will be able to reflect upon these experiences in my secondary apps, and don't want to hurt my chances of getting an interview due to lack of clinical experience as inferred through the primary app.

3) Does your adcom take international applicants' international status into consideration while reviewing the application? All other things equal, will it count against me that I'm not a US citizen?

Thanks so much!

I have no particular comments on #1 and #3 as the answers are too variable, but #2 is of interest related to the common issue of mentioning what you "will do" in your application. In general, this will be looked on questionably if it isn't something that is ongoing. So, if you've worked every summer in a research lab and have an agreement to work the upcoming summer after your submission, it is reasonable to mention it. But, planned foreign trips and potential volunteer activities are questionable as you can't say that these activities brought you to the point you are at now in understanding medicine as a career. Also, if something falls through and it doesn't happen, it will make for a challenging few moments during the interview when you explain it.

Bottom line, probably okay to mention them, but only very briefly and be very honest that they are future activities. Some reviewers won't mind, some might.

I had a question about my current path in school. Due to some family issues in which I had to take care of my father for a period of time, I am just not starting college at the ripe old age of 23. I am currently enrolled at a community college due to cost and due to the fact that I finished high school with a 2.9. I lacked motivation in high school, but I know that what I was lacking then has all came back to me now. I am completely immersed in my studies and am really enjoying it! I have also taken up volunteer opportunities around the city. My question is as follows:

I am currently attending Columbus State Community College in Columbus, Ohio, and am planning to transfer to Ohio State to major in either Biology or Chemistry. I am fully confident in my ability to achieve at least a 3.5-4.0 in my undergrad. I wanted to know how or if the fact that I attended a community college is going to hurt me when I apply to medical school in the future? Will my age be detrimental to my admission? If I maintain strong coursework and maintain extracurricular activities and a good MCAT score, will I still stand a chance at a middle-ranked school? Thanks in advance! I wish you all the best, and thanks for creating this wonderful resource for aspiring medical students!

Jarod


I think you will be fine as long as you do well at OSU. Perhaps you could incorporate the family issues into your personal statment --- a meaningful, heartfelt personal statement can go a long way. Also, aim high at OSU! Don't settle for a 3.5 if you're capable of doing better.

I am currently a freshman in college and am premed. I have done well so far in all my classes including science classes. My question is about the Linear Algebra course I am taking. After the drop deadline had passed I received some pretty bad grades and was able to elect the course Pass/Fail. I have AP credit from BC Calculus, and I was wondering if I need to take more math. I know youre supposed to take some math in college, but will it look bad if my only math course is a Pass? Also, would the statistics course in the Psychology department count as a math course? Thanks so much.

You'll have to look at the individual school requirements for math. Some schools require a full year of college-level calculus and don't accept AP credit. The statistics course you mentioned would most likely count as a math course.

hi..thank you for taking the time for answering all of our questions mentors!

My story is that my gpa is quite low..3.1. My mcat is pretty low as well but i am retaking it this june. My gpa is low because of being ill alot...(stroke) As for research, i have been working in a genetics lab for the past three years, also in a psychiatry lab, worked as a PCA for a quadriplegic man performing tracheal suctioning and so on, certified EMT-volunteering as an EMT on campus, volunteered at hospitals...leadership roles in 2-3 organizations, shadowing docs..

I was wondering, if i get a 30 or above on my mcat, will i still have a chance at allopathic schools? Will a 3.0-3.1 automatically pre-screen me in some schools? If so, what else can i do to improve my application? Thank you!

A gpa of 3.1 is very low for medical school; if you had a very high (>35) MCAT you could demonstrate aptitude for medicine despite a poor classroom showing. However if your MCAT is in the "mere mortal" range rather than closer to Superman, then you are going to need some other way of showing that you will be able to stay afloat in medical school. Many applicants with so-so undergraduate performance chose to do a masters degree; either a SMP (special masters program, coursework similar to that done in medical school) or a master's degree in biology or one of the other sciences. This an be an opportunity to show that you can do well in the hard sciences but you must do exceptionally well (gpa >3.67).

You should also plan working your illness into your personal statement (to explain why the gpa is so low). Be sure that you have something beyond your own illness that is motivating you to a career in medicine.

I graduated last May with a BS in biochem and a BA in English. During junior and senior year I had a hard time choosing between medical school and law school. I took the august 2005 mcat with no preparation and scored poorly (7 PS, 8 VR, 9BS, Q). I did well on the LSAT though, and was accepted to several top law schools. I began law school in the fall (at a top ranked school), but quickly regretted the decision to attend from the beginning. Once the reality of my law career options became clear (most everyone from my school goes to work at big law firms for several years post graduation) I knew I would be miserable following that path. I left law school because I know now that I really, truly want to go to medical school. I am currently studying for the mcat (scheduled for june) and plan apply to medical school beginning in may.

questions:
grades: my gpa for the first 7 semesters of college is decent (8.83 (3.7ish BCPM) from Rice), but after i was admitted to law schools, I had a bad case of senioritis and made a 2.8 my last semester, causing my total gpa to drop to 3.73 (3.6 BCPM). Will my dismal last semester have a major impact and ruin my chances for higher ranked schools (top 20/30), or will screeners/ADCOMs understand a poor last semester in light of the circumstances?

If your overall gpa is still >3.55, you should be OK. Grades are shown by year so the 2.8 semester will be moderated by the better semester that preceeded it.

grad school grades: I did about average my one semester in law school, but the school has a very strict curve (very few As are given). Will these grades hurt my application, or will ADCOMs understand that law school wasn't right for me?
This is going to be shown as AO (all other, that is to say "not science") and most adcom members wouldn't get too excited about it.


MCAT: is my 24 from two years ago (a time when I was really just sitting for the exam to appease my parents, because they had paid for it) going to hurt me? I anticipate doing substantially better on the test in june (at least 30+, hopefully 35+) Will schools just take the higher score and ignore the bad one, or will it be a red flag on my app?

If you can go from an MCAT 24 to MCAT >32, you will get interviews just to ask you your "secret". Obviously, the secret is motivation and hard work.


MCAT timing: assuming I get everything into amcas by mid-May, will my MCAT scores (which will come in mid July) put me far behind in the admissions process? Are june test takers going to be severly disadvantaged this upcoming cycle?

It shouldn't be too bad; most interview offers don't start flowing until August.

Time Off: I left law school in late January, at the beginning of this current semester. Will it look bad that I needed a few months (Feb/March) to travel/soul search before diving right into research and volunteering? I would rather just concentrate on my MCAT studying until the test in June ...will it look like I had time off and did nothing, or do ADCOMs understand a chunk of time needed for MCAT prep?

Find something to do in addition to MCAT prep - even if it is 4 hours per week in a nursing home, hospice, literacy center, homeless shelter, soup kitchen. Something where you can be of service to the needy. That goes on your application and shows that you weren't just taking it easy. Consider it your study break each week (one evening or a half day per week won't kill you).


Personal statement: I know I need to talk about my departure from law school, but I don't want to frame this in a negative way (i.e. I would have hated my life had I kept going). Honestly, I left law school because I was always going to regret not-pursuing medicine; I don't think I will be fulfilled doing anything else. Can I just explain that I made a bad choice to go to law school at the age of 22 because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do? Will this make sense to an ADCOM, or will it just make me sound immature/flaky?
It might. You can frame it as a desire for service that you just weren't feeling would come from a career in corporate law. Both law and medicine involve life-long learning so both have that in common but law, particularly the corporate kind, is quite different than the practice of medicine.

Hello, i just have a quick question. During my entire undergrad carrier i had no other option but to work full time, so i was unable to amass any volunteering, shadowing, or research experince. All of my jobs had nothing to do with medicine; however, i did acquire a lot of traits that i could employ as a physician (emotional stamina, pressure management, customer service, effective communication skills, etc). The only activity related to healthcare that i was involved in during those years was interpreting for my mother in all of her medical appointments. Even though it was my mom that i was translating for, this activity gave me a lot of insight as far as the diagnostic process and the doctor-patient relation is concerned. After graduation i've been working full time in research and i've also been volunteering at a local hospital. I"ve tried to find shadowing opportunities, yet having to hold down a job and my lack of connections have made it difficult. Considering all my extracurricular activities, would you consider my clinical experience to be sufficient? Would i be considered as a welll rounded applicant?

Thank you

The purpose of clinical experience is to "test the waters," so to speak --- to make sure that you know what you're getting into. Continue to volunteer at the hospital for as long as possible. I think you'll be fine. :thumbup:

Hello!

Thank you all for your willingness to mentor us. I appreciate this resource. I am writing for some general advice regarding what I can do to enhance my application to medical school.

I graduated from University of Michigan in 2006. I majored in English and minored in Medical Anthropology. My cumulative GPA was a 3.61, and my science GPA was a 3.18. I did complete the Honors Program at my University and finished off my college career with an Honors thesis. I also tried to keep myself busy outside of the academics. I volunteered at a hospital for three years. I also worked on a crisis line for assault victims, organized community development programs for two years, spent two summers in a lab, acted as a research assistant for a social science project, mentored first year students in a tutoring program, etc. etc.

I am now doing a graduate program in the Medical Sciences. I am a Teaching Assistant for General Biology courses, and I take patient histories and vitals at a free clinic for people without insurance. I am aiming to finish my program with a 3.5-3.7 GPA. I will be applying to medical school this summer and am looking for some good opportunities during my year off. Likely, I will be teaching at a community college (preferably Bio or Physio) or doing research at a teaching hospital. I got a 29O on my MCAT.

I know this picture isn't nearly as complete as it could be, but I am hoping for some advice on what the weaknesses in my application may be and what kinds of steps I should take in my year off to address them. I also want some insight on whether I should hold off my application anymore than I have. I have applied to medical school already, and I really want my next application cycle to be my last one.

Thank you very much for any thoughts that can be offered !

If you can find some schools (in your home state or that are open to OOS residents) where a 29O is the average MCAT (or where your score in each section equals or exceeds the med school's avg score), then you can go ahead and apply. Given your low science gpa as an UG, you would be foolhardy to apply to schools where both your science gpa and MCAT are below avg. The alternative is to retake the MCAT.

Hi,

I did my Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering from India and then completed my Masters (Mechanical Engineering) in one of the top 10 US universities.

The question i have is that, as AMCAS does not accept foreign transcripts, does a AMCAS application without verified grades for undergrad courses put me at a disadvantage when it comes to receiving secondaries from the Med schools i am applying to.Thanks.

Based on very limited experience with this from the adcom end (one applicant who received an undergraduate degree in Ireland, IIRC), it seems to me that your entire application will hinge on your M.S. degree and whatever additional coursework (pre-reqs in Biology, English, etc) you've taken in the US/Canada. If the coursework you present on the AMCAS appears satisfactory to those who review your application on behalf of the adcom, then you may get secondaries/interviews. You might want to hedge your bets by calling the schools that most interest you and inquiring as to whether the MS from a US school is sufficient to qualify you for admission.

Hi, I have a question that may or may not have a broad answer. My school recently rehauled the lower-division biology courses. Usually, if you were pre-med and you needed your biology requirements fulfilled, you chose 2 out of 3 possible courses (one deals with ecology, one deals with molecular and cell biology, and one deals with cell and organ physiology). Each course was 4 credits each, because each course contained it's own lab.

Like I mentioned, though, this has changed. Now each of the aforementioned three courses are only 3 credits each and have no lab component. They have introduced two totally separate lab courses that you can take concurrently or after you've completed any of the biology lecture courses. So now there are three 3-credit lecture courses and two 2-credit labs.

My question is: would medical schools (generally speaking) accept 8 credits of biology (2 3-credit lecture courses + 1 2-credit lab course) as equivelant to "one year of biology with lab," or is it very important you have two lab courses? It's a shame my school makes things so complicated; they run the Chemistry department the same way (Orgo I/II have no lab component; there is a separate 2-credit Orgo lab).

Sorry for the long-winded question, just wanted to illustrate the situation as clearly as possible. Thanks so much for any help!

Generally speaking, this seems OK. Many schools have labs separate from lecture from what I've seen on AMCAS applications.

Hi, my GPA is 3.4 with straight As in lecture and lab for gen chem, o chem, and physics, which explains my score on the mcat(35). Unfortuanetly, I am concerned my other marks: 3 Ws, a C in calculus and a D+ in Virology. How worried should I be? Should I go for an SMP or a post-bacc? Please HELP!

The 3 Ws are a Worry. Besides Virology, how did you do in biology courses?
How did you do in the bio section of the MCAT?

The Ws make one worry if you might crump under pressure. Were these all in the same semester due to difficult personal or family circumstances or spread out? Were they science courses or non-science? The C and D+ are also difficult to understand given your talents in the other science courses you've told us about. All of these anomolies need explaining in your personal statement and/or in a pre-med committee letter.

A post-bac is for people who haven't taken the pre-reqs. You have done so. You might be helped by a SMP because what you need to prove is that you can survive the basic science years of med school.

Hi Everyone :)
Thanks for all your help and advice, its really a lifesaver.
I took the MCATs last year and made a 28. I was disappointed because I felt I could do better and I wanted to be more competitive. I planned to retake them this year, and decided that instead of rushing to submit my apps I'd take a year off and do something cool, like travel or teach english in some country or something different than I've ever done before. <snip>

Also, I'll be graduating early in Dec 08 (a semester early) and will be 20 when I graduate.

So to sum up all the whining: Will taking a year off to do something not completely medicine immersed hurt my chances next year? How late is too late if you still want to be ahead of the application rush? I know you can only make suggestions, but I'd really appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks and sorry for the long post!

You are very young to be starting medical school. Take a year off and do something "cool". also prep & retake the MCAT. Breaking 30 will take you much farther than the 28 you haven now.

I didn't mean to imply a B+ will do much to my application. My point of even mentioning it was to say I was one of the few who remained in the class and even passed, and it brings down my gpa and yet it was taken at a CC which seems to imply I had an easier time than had I taken it at my UG university. Thank you for the explantion as to why I took anything at a CC; that is the truth and it sounds good. Will it be looked down upon that I came to the decision to pursue medicine late in the game? Also what if I didn't have any real defining moment or reason to pursue medicine; just general interest and finally realizing I actually was capable of doing it; and then as I started to explore it by volunteering, etc i really enjoyed it and wanted to be a doctor (obviously not that simple, but nothing special)....how do I make that sound interesting for a PS? Does this just sound like something that will make an adcom just put down my application?

The PS is one of the most difficult sections of the AMCAS and it deserves a significant chunk of time for thinking, drafting, rewriting, sharing and editing. Some adcom members look for applicants who are interesting and engaging. Sometime the comments I see from adcom member (I see applications that have been reviewed thoroughly by one member before they reach me) are along the lines of "I'd like to meet this person!" or "This applicant would be interesting to talk to." The pre-allo forum sometimes has applicants and former applicants who are willing to read and comment on personal statements. (We are unable to do this on the mentor forum.)

Some of the basic questions you might consider as you draft your PS:
What do you think that you'll be expected to do as a physician? How do you know? (how have you tested your interest in medicine?) What attracts you to the field? What has prepared you thus far for a career in medicine and for life as a medical student.

Hi there,

I am from Canada, Last year of Life Sciences program..would like to know how GPA works...we have different system for grades...is there any place I can calculate...or anyone can help. thanks

In the US, courses carry "units of credit". Most courses meet 3 hours per week for 14-15 weeks (the length of a semester) and carry 3 credits. Labs are usually an additional 1 credit per semester even if the lab itself is 2-3 hours in length. The typical student carries at least 12 credits and more often 15-17 credits per semester.

Grades are usually A, B, C, D, F with + and - grades at each letter (A-, B+, etc).
A = 4.0, B= 3.0, C= 2.0, D = 1.0 and F = 0. For a plus add 0.33, for a minus subtract 0.33.

Each grade is weighted according to the number of units of credit.
So:
Chemistry with Lab 4 credits, B = 12 grade points (4 x 3.0)
Philosophy 3 credits, C = 6 grade points (3 x 2)
Molecular biology 3 credits, A = 12 grade points
Physical education 1 credit A- = 3.67 grade points
Choir 1 credit A = 4.0 grade points

so this is 37.67 grade points divided by 12 credits =
grade point average (gpa) = 3.14

Hi! I'm scheduled to take the MCAT this May 31st, however, I don't feel that I would be able to get my "top score" by then so I am planning to reschedule it to either June 15th or July 13th.

I've heard about the importance of submitting AMCAS applications as early as possible. If I take the MCAT in July and I wait until I receive my scores in mid-August to submit my application, would that be "not early?" That is, would it put me behind all the other applications? On the other hand, I understand if I take the MCAT in June and submit my application in July then that would still be still considered early, but it would be more helpful for me to have more than an extra 2 weeks to prepare for the MCAT.

It would help if you could give me an insight on how "early" and "not-so-early" applications are processed in your school. Thanks! This is a wonderful thread!

August is a little bit late, especially considering that a ton of pre-meds submit in June or July. By applying in August, you probably won't get secondaries until early/mid-September. Those can take a lot of time to fill out. It also takes time to send letters. By that point, many schools have already started interviewing. Anything in June and July is pretty early.

i will be applying this year to med schools even though i am not the most competitive applicant by far.

my gpa is 3.0 (both science and overall), outstanding circumstances family and otherwise have managed to happen almost everyother semester, along with the fact that I teach and dance ballet professionally. This semester (which is about to finish for me) I am going to have an average of 3.75, and all my mcat practice tests are v14 bio10 phys8, its been pretty consistent these last few practice tests so I am expecting to score like that (i wish better). I have a publication and a lot of research experience and a lot of meaningful volunteer work, shadowing and good to excellent lors. I will be applying at DO schools but will an MD school look at me for a interview at least? (I am a florida resident and attend the Univ of Miami).

Madame is just back from the ballet and so she feels ready to answer your question.

If your overall gpa is 3.0 with a recent semester average of 3.75, then I have to think that you've had some semesters at <3.0. This is not good and can not be "made up" with a great MCAT. Your MCAT, in my mind, is a little weak in physical science but otherwise okay.

You have had "issues" almost every semester and you have been working & dancing. An adcom may wonder if these family problems will continue through medical school (or new ones will crop up) that will preclude med school success. An adcom may also wonder about your ability to prioritize and use your time wisely (if you were serious about being pre-med you might have cut back on other activities and focused on studying, the argument goes).

I think that getting an interview at a allopathic medical school with a 3.0 gpa and a 32 MCAT might be a long shot even with publications, research, volunteer experience and all the rest.

1. Do i need to retake One year of Physics, chemistry and Mathematics in addition to O-Chem and Biology for fulfilling my pre-reqs ? - Back in India for my bachelors in Mechanical Engineering, we just had 1 semester of Basic Chemistry and Physics ,which was quite involved.Now, comparing the syllabus of 2 semester Physics and Chemstry pre-req courses at my local Community college to the Physics i had covered back in India im pretty sure that Physics and Chemistry topics were covered in my high school syllabus itself and Phy & Chem at my college was beyond the scope of the syllabus of Pre-req courses listed by local CC. Also, during my Masters at UC most of the courses did have Pretty high level physics and Chemistry listed as their pre-reqs and i was able to achieve pretty decent grades mostly A's and few B's.The reason i ask this question is that i would rather prefer spending time learning something new and better than what i have studied throughout my previous education.

Most (all?) medical schools are going to want to see the pre-reqs taken at a US or Canadian school. Sorry you are faced with a do-over.


2. I have heard that AMCAS does not even accept Foreign transcripts, though i can enter my grades in the AMCAS application, Does that put me at any kind of disadvantage in front of adcoms to atleast get a chance to fill up my secondary's and explain them my grades acieved during my undergrad.

Check with AMCAS.



3. Do you see my undergraduate in India as a major disadvantage during my application process for med school ?

Not if you have a reasonable application with coursework done in the States.


4. What else would you suggest for me to look into to become a better Med school applicant and a future doctor ?

A strong personal statement explaining why you are making a change at this point in your career, solid experiences that show that you have tested your interest in medicine and are ready to take the plunge, and enough humililty to be ready to go down the ladder to the bottom and take direction from those who are younger than yourself (but who will outrank you) and the stamina to handle the workload as a student and resident (are you ready to work an 80 hour week including nights, weekends, and holidays with little say in the way your schedule is constructed?)

Are there any US schools with January and/or April entering classes like the offshore schools? My search hasn't come up with any. I'm an older non-trad, and the idea of a lost year at this point doesn't sit well.

I can't imagine any US school that would do this - or why. You could check the MSAR (Medical School Admission Requirements), the bible published by the AAMC (and well worth the purchase price if you intend to apply to allopathic schools in the US) and I'd be shocked if you found any schools with mid-year start dates.

I am coming to this from what I would classify as an extremely unique background. I went to college for one reason and one reason only, to play baseball. After my junior year(2002) I was drafted and left school early to pursue my life long dream as a professional baseball player. After 5 seasons I was ultimately unfulfilled and decided it was time to walk away(June 2006).

During my second professional season I began volunteering at local schools, talking at school assemblies, reading in class rooms, and participating in free baseball clinics on the weekends. Through this expirience I started to realize that I wanted to interact with people on a much more personal level than the celebrity of baseball could provide me.

Along with insights gained through volunteering, my interest in science started me on the path towards medicine. While in college I was an average student and took many of my prerequisites by virtue of interest in the subjects but put little to know emphasis on my grades because medical school was not even on my radar(my gpa was around a 2.9). As I continued my career I made an effort to interact with the team doctors and trainers as much as possible and by my last season I began shadowing the team doctor and observing the team orthopedic surgeon in the O.R.

Fast forward to present, I have just completed 3 semesters of course work during which I have earned roughly a 3.8 between Biochemistry I and II w/ lab, Organic II, Neurobiology, Physiology, Developmental Biology, Mind-Body Medicine and Science and Religion(obviously not a hard science course). I have finished my degree and even with my recent sucess my gpa would not be considered competitve. I will be taking the MCAT in June and realize that my score will be crucial.

So my questions are as such: What can an applicant such as myself do to get past the front door? I feel confident that my gpa can be explained, and capabilities proven by my recent academic success and hopefully strong MCAT score.
If I am able to "make the cut" and someone does review my entire application will it be taken into account that previous course work was completed at a time in my life when my priorities were elsewhere?
Lastly, I did biochemistry research this semester and will be presenting at the statewide meeting of the minds, I have also been selected to participate in a competitive research fellowship for Merck through my university this summer. I have shadowed, done volunteeting during my baseball career as well as currently mentoring through BBBS, all things that have reaffirmed my desire to be a doctor. My question is simple, is there anything more I can do? I am from the school of thought that if you really want something you do as much as possible to not let others decide your fate, with my past academic performance out of my control I want to be sure I am doing everything within my power to earn an interveiw at my schools of choice.

Thank you in adavance for both your time and advice, your charity is greatly appreciated.

Wow! I think that many adcom members would be intrigued. In your AMCAS application you should be sure to list Varsity Baseball and the hours per week you put into it among the list of "experiences" in college. You should also list baseball as employment for the years you were a professional player. Also list the shadowing experiences, and volunteer stuff you did during that time Your grades as a non-trad pre-med are good and your research seems interesting and interesting to you.

Focus on doing well (nothing less than 10) on the MCAT and you should be on the way to joining a list of professional athletes who went on to careers in medicine.

Wow! I think that many adcom members would be intrigued. In your AMCAS application you should be sure to list Varsity Baseball and the hours per week you put into it among the list of "experiences" in college. You should also list baseball as employment for the years you were a professional player. Also list the shadowing experiences, and volunteer stuff you did during that time Your grades as a non-trad pre-med are good and your research seems interesting and interesting to you.



I entirely agree with Madame that this story will get any Adcom's attention. In reviewing your file, I would go rapidly to the letters of recommendation to try to see if your story came across as "real." So, make sure you have a range of letters from the people you've been working with lately (none from a baseball coach however :rolleyes: ) about your maturity, your commitment to medicine, etc.

In getting interviewed, don't be surprised if you get asked frequently about....baseball. Remember, we get intervieweees with experience in Guatemalan clinics every day, but former pro baseball players....not so often. Don't be upset, they aren't putting down your accomplishments to get to the interview, it's just natural to be curious and it's a good way for the interviewer to find out about you and learn something. So expect a lot of "trace your career from second base (or wherever) to here" type questions. If you ever hob-nobbed with famous players, you'll be asked about them too!

Finally, I wanted to use this question to comment a bit in general about "big time" college athletes and applications to med school. It is common to receive applications that tell us (sometimes gently, sometims whiny) about bad grades due to college athletics. It is common enough that in general, I don't give it much credence. That is, unless we're talking about someone who is "olympic caliber" (actually made the olympic team helps here :) ) or a starter on a Division I team. Even then, it won't help a lot unless you bring in the Olympic medal or the All-American status trophy. So, be cautious about using athletics as an excuse. It is important to participate in sports and I respect it, but you don't get to have bad grades while doing sports at the expense of applicants who worked harder on their coursework and didn't do sports.

Thank you both for the thoughtful response, that is exactly the kind of input I was looking for.



I couldn't agree more and I don't feel my athletic career is either an excuse or reason for my grades the first go round in school. Essentially it's a lesson in foresight, or there lack of... a lesson I'm hoping not to learn the hard way. When it's all said and done I have given all I have since committing to this new career path and will continue to do so, I am just happy to hear that it is reasonable to think that my application will atleast get a look.

On the topic of LOR's that attest to my character one of you mentioned that a letter from a baseball coach wouldn't be a good idea, I do have two solid letters lined up, one from the professor I am doing research for and one from a mentor that is the vice president of research for a major research hospital in my area(and the former dean of a medical school). In all honesty if it hadn't been mentioned I was going to use a baseball contact as one my third LOR, if this is not a good choice what other options should I consider?

I'm not a fan of letters from coaches, ministers, etc., although there are occasionally some exceptions. I've seen some letters from military commanders that I thought were powerful, and I suppose a letter from a US Senator wouldn't hurt. :rolleyes: (j/k - I've never seen one like that...). Letters from a baseball contact probably won't be very influential, but might annoy some members of the committee and would likely overemphasize your sporting background. You don't need to do that - it'll be apparent anyway.

Only you can identify the best person to write an additional letter from among those who have taught you or you have worked with in medicine and science.

I entirely agree with Madame that this story will get any Adcom's attention. In reviewing your file, I would go rapidly to the letters of recommendation to try to see if your story came across as "real." So, make sure you have a range of letters from the people you've been working with lately (none from a baseball coach however :rolleyes: ) about your maturity, your commitment to medicine, etc.

In getting interviewed, don't be surprised if you get asked frequently about....baseball. Remember, we get intervieweees with experience in Guatemalan clinics every day, but former pro baseball players....not so often. Don't be upset, they aren't putting down your accomplishments to get to the interview, it's just natural to be curious and it's a good way for the interviewer to find out about you and learn something. So expect a lot of "trace your career from second base (or wherever) to here" type questions. If you ever hob-nobbed with famous players, you'll be asked about them too!

Finally, I wanted to use this question to comment a bit in general about "big time" college athletes and applications to med school. It is common to receive applications that tell us (sometimes gently, sometims whiny) about bad grades due to college athletics. It is common enough that in general, I don't give it much credence. That is, unless we're talking about someone who is "olympic caliber" (actually made the olympic team helps here :) ) or a starter on a Division I team. Even then, it won't help a lot unless you bring in the Olympic medal or the All-American status trophy. So, be cautious about using athletics as an excuse. It is important to participate in sports and I respect it, but you don't get to have bad grades while doing sports at the expense of applicants who worked harder on their coursework and didn't do sports.

I agree with Tildy -- with the exception of the point about LORs. Coach letters can be very valuable. One of the best I ever read was from a professional athlete who had played a varsity sport with a coach who had a long tenure as well as having coached at the Olympic level. I knew of the coach and thought highly of him and I was very glad to have the opportunity to see a letter from him. What's more, he wrote a beautifully crafted letter that gave concrete examples of the applicant's leadership and ethics.

Some faculty are more "open" to varisity athletes than others. I know some that will take a varsity athlete with a 3.65 over a very similar non-athlete with a 3.75. That's not exactly "bad grades" but I think that it is recognizing that athletes bring additional skills and values to the table and often take a hit in gpa because of the hours required for the team.

Hi everyone, been viewing these forums for a while but i need some advice here now...

Im currently studying at University of Auckland, New Zealand, at the Bachelor of Health Sciences degree 1st year. This is needed to apply for Medicine after the first year if you have a B+ average to be considered for interview + a UMAT test. However i feel like i might have screwed up on some first tests (they were about 25% each...) due to a family loss and that I have been comforting my mother in first hand and not being able to study as expected.

If I dont get in after this year is there ANY possibilites for me to go overseas and apply WITHOUT reading another pre-year? Anywhere is good really, but i would prefer Australia mostly or maybe the US or Canada, but im not sure how the system works over there, e g can I take my grades from 1st year here and apply to other universities and sit some test?

The only thing im certain of is that i will never give up on this and will do whatever it takes.

Thank you for an awesome forum

Wow! This is the World Wide Web, no? In the US and Canada, one typically applies to medical school after completing 3 years of undergraduate classes at a US or Canadian college or univeristy (the fourth and final year is completed duirng the year in which one is going through the application and interview process).

There are a few universities that offer a 6 or 7 year program where appliants are admitted right out of high school to the undergraduate program and then to medical school after 2 or 3 years of undergraduate classes.

If you were to transfer to a school in the States, you would be applying for transfer to an undergraduate program. After completing all but the last year of that program you would apply for admission to a US medical school.

Hi, just wondering if any of my questions will be answered, if not that's okay. You can ignore the first one because i found some personal statements online and I think I know more or less what they should be about.

Secondly, How can I make myself stand out as an applicant if I have an average GPA and MCAT score? If I get many LORs from physicians I shadowed, like maybe 8 LOR's will this look impressive? Thanks.

Beatrix,
I'll look back at your previous questions. We have quite a backlog at the moment.

A well written personal statement (I'm glad you've found some resources to help with that) and well written secondary applications (when additional material, additional essays are requested) are always important. The secondary should be specfic to that school and mention specific reasons why you are most intersted in the school (even if the essay question doesn't specifically ask for the information it is often possible to work it in). Coming off as uninterested in the school is a good reason not to offer an interview.

Too many LORs will only wear out the good will of the committee member assigned to read your application. Most schools will tell you how many letters are needed and the sources of those letters. Professors from your academic institution are usually preferred over physicians who have seen you in a shadowing situation. Rarely do I ever see more than 5 letters. Eight from physicians whom you have shadowed is too many in my opinon!

Hi Mentors:
I've been clincially depressed since probably around 8th grade and since then everyday is a struggle. I'm applying to medical schools this summer, and have a GPA of 3.2/3.3. Should I even bother applying while I'm so depressed, or should I just ignore my problem and continue to apply as if I were a normal applicant. If yes, should I mention anything about this in my personal statement?

Let's rewrite your statement. "I've been chronically ill since the 8th grade and since then every day is a struggle.... Should I even bother applying while I'm so ill...? Should I mention anything about my illness in my personal statement?" I'm going to approach this from a medical model -- no different than if you'd told me you had diabetes or lupus.


You should talk with your health care provider about whether your health is strong enough right now for you to apply to medical school. If the stress would make your disease worse, it might be best to wait until you are stronger. You should also talk to a pre-med advisor about whether your application is strong enough to get you in at one of the schools of your choice (the 3.2-3.3 seems a bit low but my frame of reference is a top tier research school). If your application is not strong enough, again it might be best to wait and make what improvements you can before you launch into an application cycle.

Only you can decide whether to include information about your illness in your personal statement and how much information to include. You can write about "chronic illness" without being specific... you can make reference to health problems that have been resolved (if they have) without going into detail or you can go out on a limb and name your illness. Keep in mind though that even physicians and other adcom members harbor unspoken prejudices and the information you reveal about yourself may be held against you although that would never be the "official" reason for an admission decision.

Good luck!

Sorry to bother you....
I have several struggling questions with sincerity...

I am a graduating senior with overall gpa 3.4, Science 3.5+, BPMC gpa 3.5+, geeting mcat for may (current, practice mcat score is avg. 27, consistently 6-7 on verbal)

Institutional action in 2006?

To cut my story short, like every other student on my campus, i was trying to sell my old textbooks with materials to other students (materials i bought them from previous alumni ), but my materials, without my knowledge really~i swear to GOD~ accidentally overlapped with the materials kept by an academic program, thus, the program reported me to school, and no matter how i claimed myself about the innocence along with my student advocate's assiatnce and said it happened without my knowledge, i was charged of suspension for half year in 2006. All of this makes me postpone a year of graduation.


All the frustration and diffidence make me procrastinated and self-destructed on the studying...

Sorry for the long message i pour over you, but i am really desperately need some advice from the beneficent you.

This institutional action must be reported on the AMCAS. If I understand correctly, you bought (before taking the course) and then sold (after taking the course) materials that should not have been distributed outside of class (copies of quizes or exams, perhaps? It just isn't clear here what you are talking about). Anyway, this usually gets classified as cheating, a form of academic dishonesty; the excuse, "I didn't know that it was wrong" isn't going to cut it. I suspect that most med schools don't want to touch an applicant with a record of academic dishonesty.

Even without this fatal flaw, your projected verbal score on the MCAT would make me wonder if you shouldn't sit out this cycle and work on improving that aspect of your application.

You need to talk to a pre-med advisor at your school. Is there any precedent of a student in a situtation such as yours (you aren't the first one to get an institutional action of this sort) getting cut a break and if so, at what med schools?

Good luck -- you are in a very dire situation as far as medical school admissions go.

I guess I need to hear whether you have ever seen an applicant with such a terrible history get into med school?
I was the first in my family to go to college. Never had any guidance in that area. Went to 4 different colleges, withdrawing on several occasions. Finally got pregnant and decided to do something with myself. Went to a community college, became an RN while being a single mom, living in a city without any financial or social support. Ended up having about 212 credits with an overall gpa of 2.2. I know horrible isn't it? Anyway, since working as a nurse in psych, decided that I really wanted to go further (7years later) and help my own people. In child and adolescent psych there are few if any african american psychiatrist to relate to the over 80% population of african american children in most facilities that I have worked. Things that have been often categorized as traumatic or terrible in alot of cases were simply cultural, yet hard to explain. I am now getting my BSN, but looking at my history, I feel somewhat hopeless. Is there a chance or something that I can do or should I just become a psych nurse practitioner. Thank you.

I think that you need to do a few things:
1) Really explore why you want to be a child and adolescent psychiatrist and what you would hope to accomplish in that role. Are there other careers that would be as satisfying and let you serve that patient population? It seems like you've already been thinking about this.

2) Consider what it is going to take to reach your goal: more undergrad coursework (despite your 200+ credits you may not have the pre-reqs), four years of medical school including lots of topics and rotations seemingly unrelated to psychiatry, a transitional internship, psychiatric residency and child/adolescent psych fellowship. Are you ready to do that? Do you have the social support network you'll need to see you through? Are you ready to live like a student (in terms of lack of free time and lack of $)?

3) If you have one close by, consult with a good post-bach program. An advisor at such a program should be able to tell you what your chances are of being admitted given your record... also ask about the proportion that complete the program (many have a low threshold to admit applicants but then weed out the weakest so that only the strongest apply), and what proportion of those who apply get admitted to med school. Would it be full or part time? Could you work as a nurse and complete the program? etc.

Good luck!

As for the history on my camous, i WAS the first one who got this type of punishment according to my student advocate's (student "lawer") investigation.


I had hoped that your school could give you some help in terms of finding other pre-med students who have been the subject of Institutional Action and where they've managed to be accepted. Even if the "crime" is different, the school may be able to tell you which schools appear to be more open to applicants who have had Institutional Action.


Because it is the atmosphere that students exchange and sell their materials through individuals or agencies, and those materials were/are widely distributed around the campus; the materials i bought and sold were actually given out from classes by various professors. (There were a mass investigation and appeal from me at that time. )

I do not why it is a "dishonesty" because the program which has the materials that overlapped with mine were actually given by its program student members. I happened to be the NEW member After i bought these materials from a former student who was NOT the member of the program.

I signed the punishment contract because i confessed that i did not have the knowledge while i became the member of the program which had the simliar materials.

Am i not forgiveable?

I have been depressed and distressed by this for over 2 years.....

Put it on your AMCAS. Tell the whole story including the type of material (was it copyrighted or restricted in terms of re-distribution?) and your mistake in selling it. Be contrite. Be honest. Hope for the best.

I'm a freshman undergrad, and unfortunately i did not adjust very well to my first year in higher education. My first year is splotched with a pair of Cs and D with other A's and B's. I know I did not perform as well as I am capable of, and there were factors such as depression and family issues that played in as well. I hate to think I'm making excuses, and I was wondering if an admissions committee would even take it into consideration or should I just take it in stride and show a strong upward trend and hope for the best?

Don't let yourself off the hook with excuses. If you have depression, do what you need to do to regain your health. When you get back to classes, do your best and show that strong upward trend that those of us on the adcom like to see.

Hi Drs.,

Don't know if i'm submitting my question correctly, sorry if i am not. However, I had a question regarding the discussion of one's medical history either in the PS or in the interview. It has been something that has nagged me throughout college.

I have a pretty interesting situation. I have been the subject of some very involved medical procedures when I was younger and a parent has been for the majority of my life faced with many difficult medical problems. Needless to say this has been one of the thrusts for my passion to become a physician. My time as a patient, a patient's family member and my interactions with my physicians has shown me that I want to impact other's the same way my physicians impacted me any my family.

I also have had the chance to view physicians on the other side of the profession, in terms of how they interact when there are no patients around, the detail and dedication required of them and the immense knowledge they have of the chosen fields. Needless to say my experiences as a patient are the reason I want to become a doctor.

Is it appropriate to discuss these things? and to what extent? I would just like some clarification, thanks for your time.

You have had experiences as a patient and as a family member. This is often the first opportunity that someone has to think about careers in medicine. It is appropriate to say that you were inspired by the physicians who provided you with lifesaving care as a child (or whatever). The next step, and one that is key to a good application, is to gain some clinical experience as a care-provider and to see physicians caring for people other than yourself or your loved ones and to include this in yoru statement as well. You aren't applying to be a patient or merely going into medicine as hero-worship -- do you want to take on the daily tasks of a physician? There are many ways to have a positive impact on the lives of others and medicine is only one path. Be sure that you've had an opportunity to see the path from the physician's viewpoint before you leap.

Hello Adcoms- Thank you for being there.

If possible, I'd like to know your opinion on where I stand.

My general coursework and major is rather dismal; I spent two years in a Rabbinical Seminary where the coursework is obviously meaningless, then I transferred to a lowish-level university (FDU), where I took a host of business and finance courses, majoring in Individualized Studies. I decided I wanted to become a doctor, took my Gen Chems and Bios is a different low-level college, and then took my O-Chems and Physics in a City University (CUNY Brooklyn).

As far as stats though, cum GPA is 3.8+, and BCPM GPA is 4.0. For EC's, I have a year of volunteer EMT-B, a year of volunteer work in China, and several summers volunteer in Russia. My LOR's should be okay as well.

I take the MCAT in July; assuming I get a decent score (35ish), how do you think I stand?

Thank you so much; I hope you don't mind reading this through.

The adcom is going to wonder, has this guy decided he wants to do medicine or is he going to change his mind again? An MCAT of 35 is more than decent... I think that the bigger challenge for you will be assuring the adcom that you will fit in (you are non-traditional in every sense of the word) and that you will stay in medicine.

Thanks for your previous response, it was so good I wanted to ask one more question.

What do you think of applying to only reach and match schools the first time around and re-applying more broadly the next year as a re-applicant if I don't make it in? I'm a junior and hadn't intended on applying this year (i have a 3.4 GPA which I will improve upon my senior year). But, I received a 35T on my MCAT (13 P, 11V, 11B) and was advised by my boss (a physician) to have a go at it. My biggest fear is getting into a lower-tier school this year if I could have made it into a mid-tier school with a better application (i.e. a higher GPA or a publication that I'm currently writing up)... but that fear is negated if apply only to mid-tier schools the first time around. My recs and ECs are all pretty good, if it matters. Is there a stigma against re-applicants I should worry about? Would you advise improving my application and GPA before applying? Thanks!

I think that you need to consider three things:

The financial impact of applying twice (cost of applications runs about $100 per school plus the costs associated with interviews)

The time spent on the interview trail which will take time away from school or work.

The emotional toll of waiting for secondaries, waiting for interviews, waiting for offers, waiting on waitlists.

If you care about the tier, prepare the best application you can, even if it means sitting out a year. Unless you've got money to burn, nothing better to do with your time, and you really don't feel an emotional investment in the outcome of the admission cycle, I'd suggest waiting.

<snip>I still have a solid three more weeks of classes and would be starting med school in early August which doesn't give me much of a buffer. I have decided that I would really benefit from a year off- I would be able to recenter myself and focus on attacking the next four, tough years of school.

My question is in regards to how I should broach this subject with my medical school. I am absolutely set on going there whether it is this year or next and the last thing I want to do is make them question my committment to them. How would you suggest talking with them about this, who should I contact, is it even a possibility (their website said nothing about deferrals that I could find). I know I need to jump on this quickly since they would have to fill my spot for this year. <snip>

You can always ask if a deferral is possible. However, ask yourself, "is it just cold feet?" While saving a little money for a year might be nice, you are delaying the earning of an attending physicians salary by a year so the cost of your year off is substantial in terms of future earnings.

I was just wondering what my chance at getting into med school are and if my 1 year at community college will hurt me. I was in the engineering program ... I tranferred out, though, and attended a local community college for a year while I decided what I wanted to pursue as engineering just didn't interest me a great deal. I was thinking about teaching high school chemistry and biology, and because of this I took Orgo 1 and 2, Microbiology, Physics 2, and Gen. Bio. 1 at CC (recieved a 4.0 there). I am now at a private college, and have demonstrated that I can do well in upper level sciences by getting an A in Physical Chemistry.

Also, this summer I am volunteering in an ER and also doing research in Biochemistry with a professor through a competitive grant that I applied for. I have also been involved in various E.C's throughout college (Jazz Band, American Chemical Society, American Physics Society, etc.). I will be doing more shadowing and more EC's in the next year (I will be taking 5 years to graduate and am still recieiving my Secondary Education degree as a backup plan) and was wondering if I have a decent chance at admissions.

You are a good candidate for a personal statement that tells of your journey from engineering to "seeker" to education to medicine. You seem to have your ducks in a row for admission to allopathic or osteopathic medical school. Be sure to shadow and osteopath and get a letter of recommendation from one if you choose to go the osteopath route.

How important it is to have a recommendation from your undergraduate pre-med advisory committe when applying to med schools? I've been out of college for 3 years now and I was unaware of the lengthy and detailed process it takes to receive this from my undergraduate school. There most likely won't be enough time for me to go through this process in time to complete my applications. Will med schools frown upon you if you don't have this?

If your school is "well known" for producing med school applicants then it is likely that the med schools are acquainted with and respect the opinions of the pre-med advisory commitee at your school. If this is the case, then yes, not having a pre-med advisory committee letter will be a red flag.

For the AMCAS application, Should I include the researcher I will be working with or just the research topic? Should my approach change for the TMDSAS application?


Anyone else have some advice on TMDSAS for this poster??



Here's a linke to the Texas application FAQ: TMDSAS FAQ (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=384480)

I am a student who considers applying for medical school this June. My GPA is 3.75. My major is English. I have taken the MCAT once, but scored a 29 (PS: 12; Bio: 9: VR: 8). I plan to retake the MCAT on July 13th. I have a few questions:

1. English is not my first language, but I chose it as my major. Given my circumstance, how will the admission committee think about my low VR score for the MCAT?

They may interprete this to mean that you don't read very quickly and thus lost points due to a lack of speed or perhaps that your coursework focused more on writing or on reading nineteenth century British novels or something very different than the types of passages one reads for the MCAT. The next stop would be to look at your transcript and to see if you had a LOR from an English professor or someone who might be able to address your ability to interprete what you read.


2. The medical schools will receive my second MCAT score around August 15th. Will that be too late for the rolling admission?

Rolling admission just means that decisions are made just a few weeks after the interview. August 15 arrival of your MCAT scores means that your file will be read in August or later. This could mean that you will be read right away and interviewed in September or it could mean that you end up at the bottom of a stack of hundreds of applications that arrived in July.


3. Would you recommend me to fill out the primary application and submit it in June without my second MCAT score?

If you check the box indicating that you are retaking the MCAT, then the schools will hold off reviewing your application until that second MCAT arrives.


4. When I choose medical schools to apply to, should I apply mostly to the schools with an average MCAT score close to 29?
That is a wise move if your gpa is about average for those schools. If your gpa is less than the average for the school, you may be at a disadvantage.


5. When AMCAS calculates my GPA for the primary application, will they count the classes I took in a community college when I was in high school?

Thank you very much for your help!

Yes.

How would an adcom approach age, if at all, in an application? I just turned 18 years old and am applying this cycle. I've had a lot of people tell me not to bring up my age anywhere in my application unless an adcom brings it up in my interview. Is that good advice?

Also here are some of my stats to put things in perspective:

MCAT: 32P (10V, 12P, 10B)
Cum GPA: 3.76
BCPM GPA: 3.76

Some volunteering in hospital (about 40-50 hours so far) and shadowing a radiologist.
Other volunteer experiences include tutoring physics, tutoring elementary and middle school kids, and monitoring a university computer lab.

I'm just worried that while my stats are somewhat ok, age will be quite an issue I'll have to deal with. I don't feel 18, but I forget that most people are 21-22 when they start applying to med school.

I have seen the thread on pre-allo and the comments posted and wish to reenter this thread to make a brief comment here. It is clear you have decided to apply this cycle and that is your choice. I doubt you will have trouble being accepted but it depends to a non-trivial degree on how you present yourself in the essays and interviews.

However, AFTER you are accepted, please consider taking the 5 year plan and spending an additional year in medical school doing research and/or getting an additional degree (MPH/MBA/etc). Given your background, this might be a useful thing to do and enhance your career while allowing you to meet your goal of starting medical school as soon as possible. Please seek out mentors in your med school who can help you plan a course that meets your needs but think broadly of the possibilities - you have many great options.

Good luck and congrats on all you've accomplished so far. By the way, for what it's worth, I graduated from medical school (in the United States) when I was 24 yrs old and did not think I was a worse physician because of it.

Hi,

I’m a postbacc at Columbia, just wondering (1) where to apply and (2) if I have a child, will it hurt me to talk about this in my personal statement? Here is some info:

4.1 postbacc gpa (most of my med school prereq’s were taken here), but 3.5 undergrad gpa from an average school (including several science/math B+’s, one science C+ and one science UW counting as an F)
41T mcat (15VR, 14PS, 12BS)
150 hospital volunteer hours
3-4 months clinical research, including 1 publication
A couple semesters of undergrad non-medical international research/volunteering
Nothing spectacular career-wise in the year and a half between undergrad and postbacc

I am weak on lab research, though this summer I’m working part time in a lab, and I may be able to find a lab research position for the fall. Still, I realize it is a little late to get started on this type of thing. So I am not sure what my chances are overall. I am thinking of applying to: Albert Einstein, Boston University, Case Western, Chicago (Pritzker), Cornell, Columbia, Duke, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Mayo, Mt Sinai, Northwestern, NYU, Stanford, SUNY Downstate, SUNY Stonybrook, UMDNJ, and WashU

Am I including too many reach schools? Are there some schools listed above that I just have no real shot at, such that I shouldn’t apply (because I have so little research experience, etc)? Should I apply to more “safe” schools—and if so, what would that mean—other New York state schools (I’m a NY resident)? My personal statement is not spectacular, if this helps answer any of these questions.

Second, as I said, is it potentially detrimental to talk about having a child in my personal statement and/or secondaries? I have done so, because this has been such a huge part of my experience as a student, and as a human. But might it hurt my chances? Or are most medical schools fairly accepting of women with children pursuing a medical career?

Thanks.

You have an extraordinary MCAT, a very good post-bac gpa and several months of clinical research with a publication. I think that if you interview well and your application is well written, you should have a good shot at at least a few schools on your list.

The relevance of your child to your suitability as a medical student or your career as a physician is .... what? I hate to say it, but I would worry that some adcom members would have unspoken reservations about admitting someone who has responsibilities for a small child (and this goes double if you are a single parent). I would recommend that you focus your personal statement on why you want to be a physician and how you have tested this interest in a career in medicine. You might also want to talk with your advisor at Columbia and determine whether or not your child will be mentioned in your LOR (Columbia tends to send very thorough biographies of their students). So, your child may be mentioned in your application (and perhaps in the context of pointing out how you have managed to do well at Columbia while parenting) even if you don't include that information in your personal statement.

Two quick questions: My first year of school, some 6 years ago, I took three quarters of Claculus, letter grades as follows: A, C, F. As you can see , as the year went on I was less and less interested in school. I took a two year break from school, and upon my return my gpa increased drastically each year: 3.5, 3.8, 3.8. I atribute my first year woes to a lack of maturity. How will the F in Calc. III affect my application?
Secondly, I am now graduated and am looking for a full time job in Microbiology. Unfortunately, there aren't many opportunities close by. Does it matter to a school if I am working in a science related field or some other field(ie business) during my year off?

In your Personal Statement you need to explain your journey to med school application and that should include some explanation of your freshman year as it is quite obvious that something happened. You will also be asked to tell the adcom what you did in the two years "off".

The F in Calculus will hurt your gpa a little bit and it could be a red flag but if it is just one terrible grade you could be forgiven.

You need not work in a science related field...

Good luck with the job hunt!

Hi, I have a bit of an odd situation. I generally start my Pre-Med courses very focused, but somewhere in the middle of the semester, I lose focus and end up getting a C. Of course, it's a bit more than that. I have Ulcerative Colitis and the stress of the courses induces severe flare-ups. It becomes hard for me to concentrate on my courses when I'm in so much physical pain. As a result of this disease, I'd like nothing more than to help others who have it and other diseases of the GI tract. My goal is to become a Pediatric Gastroenterologist. Anyway, back to the stats, I've gotten C's in both of my General Bio courses, but A's in their labs. C's in General chemistry, B in O.Chem I, D+ in O.Chem II (I'm definitely re-taking it), B's in Physics, C in molecular and B in biochem. As for Math, well I'm a math major so I've gotten A's in Calc I and Calc II and plan on continuing that trend throughout the rest the math courses I have left. I haven't taken the mcats yet. As far as experience goes, I've volunteered for a year and am working in a pharmaceutical company, but that's pretty much it in terms of the medical field. However, I've done research projects in math, have been a tutor for about two years and am president of the math club. Obviously I need more ECs. My BCPM and cumulative GPA are both at a 3.0. I already have two professors that I'm sure will write excellent letters of recommendations. So this leads me to three questions:
1. If I get a stellar MCAT score, exemplary LORs, have an amazing personal statement and do more ECs, do I have any chance in getting in without doing an SMP or retaking most of the pre-reqs?
2. Should I get a masters in Biomathematics after I graduate college? Would that help in any way? Or would I be better off with an MMS or a masters in Biology?
3. I've heard that alot of med schools want you to apply within 5 years after taking the pre-reqs. If I took general chemistry my freshman year and plan on applying 6 years after, would I need to retake it? Or is it 5 years after you graduate? I'm so confused on that.

Thank you so much for answering my questions!

I admire your desire to care for children who suffer from gastrointestinal disorders but it is a bit concerning to see someone in pre-med deciding so early in the process on a subspecialty within the field of medicine.

Math appears to be your strong suit and perhaps you could help children (and others) using that math talent in biomedical research. A MS degree in biostatistics could open doors in that field and would also come in handy if you continued down the road to medical school.

Your grades in Biology and Chemistry are a grave concern. Even the Bs in Physics are a concern as this is all pointing toward a BCPM gpa of <3.0. Perhaps quite a few math courses can pull up that gpa but the poor showing in so many pre-requisitites is going to hurt. Osteopathic schools will use the new grade if you choose to retake but allopathic medical schools will use both grades in determining your gpa and this means it is nearly impossible to battle back from a bunch of Cs and Ds.

Finally, not not of least importance, is your physical health. The stress of medical school could cause further exacerbation. It is essential to get your disease under control. No med school wants a student who is going to repeat a year or flunk out due to an uncontrolled chronic condition. Your first priority should be your own health.

Good luck.

Hello all. I am a general surgery intern that was on the admissions committee for a public medical school. I'm here to contribute my $.02, and help in any way I can. Ask away.

Hi All,

I've done a lot of volunteering in non-clinical and non-medical setting - all in things I am very passionate about (mainly environmental). I'm applying for 08 and a bit worried about filling in the clinical/patient/medical side of my experiences... as I currently have pretty much zip (except I did move and transfer schools to take care of my girlfriend while she went through chemo and radiation for Hodgkin's - now 2 years cancer free - and this did motivate me towards medicine).

I have the opportunity to volunteer and become certified as a Rape Crisis Counselor (and I'm a male!) ... I am interested in doing this volunteer work and would be committed for a year... the problem is it wouldn't be direct "clinical/patient" experience, but for the Crisis Center's outreach/edu program (I'd also be doing some volunteer GIS work for them too). So while I wanted to do clinical type work through this, it turned out to be a different opportunity than I intended.

At the same time, I have a few other opportunities in more
clinical/medical setting, such as volunteering at a hospital, volunteer for research trial where I'll get trained in phlebotomy etc...

They aren't mutually exclusive, but if I gave up the Rape Crisis opportunity, I feel that I would have more time to dedicate to patient/clinical volunteer work...

Question: At this point in apps, is it better to go straight for more clinical/medical experience or will the Rape Crisis Counselor training and volunteering make me stand out more?

Put yourself in the shoes of an adcom. Which would you find more unique in an applicant? Would you rather talk about a guys experience drawing blood or working in a rape crisis center? Not tough to figure out!

So, as long as you have reasonable shadowing so as to convince the adcom that you know what medicine is about, do the rape crisis center. You and your application will be the better for it.

Remember though, volunteering isn't just about "standing out" to an adcom, it's about gaining experiences you can talk about, that provide you with a more mature and diverse view of society, and allowing you to make a contribution. Adcoms are looking for these as well as uniqueness.

Hi, I have a question about checking the economically disadvantaged status on the application. I have looked at the questions that they provide and whereas my family's low income fits the requirements, and I have had a job since 16y.o., my income has not always gone to support my family. When I was in high school there was a period of time in which both of my parents were unemployed, received unemployment aid from the government, and I contributed a bit of money to help out, but once I entered college my income mostly went toward paying for books and my student contribution in my financial aid package. My job is only part time. And I do not live in a medically underserved area. I have felt disadvantaged at times, I could never afford tutoring, I could not attend a lot of TA and professor office hours because I had to go to work, I have few volunteer hours because I always tried to get paid internships, and in general I spent less time on my classes than classmates who could afford not to work at all during the school year. However, I know that a lot of other students have work study jobs as well, and I know that my life could be a lot worse. I feel blessed in many ways, my family has always treated me well, and I have had many opportunities in my state to get research and clinical experience. Should I check the disadvantaged box? I do not want to seem like I am seeking special treatment , and I am not sure if my reasons for feeling disadvantaged are trivial. Thank you so much for your time!

There's no absolute answer to this as adcoms would have extremely variable responses to this question and your choice in this. It wouldn't much affect how I look at your application whatever decision you make. Others might want to ask you about it at an interview and you might or might not wish to handle those type of questions. Do what you are comfortable with. If in doubt, I would generally suggest not marking it, but again, I don't feel strongly about it.

Welcome to the new Medical School Admissions: Special Circumstances Thread.

What is the purpose of this thread?

The sole purpose of this thread is to help students answer the following question: How can I explain "X" that happened in my life on my application? In this thread our mentors can help you figure out how to address in your application events that may have caused adversity in your life or challenges that you may have overcome.

From this point forward, this will be the only topic addressed in this thread.

Please do not post "what are my chances" threads or your entire life story.
Brevity is your friend. Your post is much more likely to be answered if your question is brief and to the point.

Inappropriate posts WILL be deleted or moved.
Thank you for your cooperation.


Who will be answering my question?
Questions in this thread will be answered by members of medical school admissions committees (students, faculty and staff) and by medical students, residents or physicians who may share their experiences with the admissions process. You may review the credentials of any mentor by viewing their "Welcome" post.



Do NOT delete this post.

I just found out/recalled/remembered that i had a couple classes i took in 1998 (when I was 13 years old) at a community college over the summer between middle school and high school. Unfortunately, I got 2 D's and a C.

They were all math classes on semester hours while my university is on the quarter system, and basically it demolishes my BCPM gpa and cumulative if counted. BCPM 3.7 -> 3.36 and a 3.47 cumulative to a 3.2

I was wondering if AMCAS does in fact calculate these into my GPA. If so, is there anyway that I could address this issue? My biggest fear is that they will not reach human eyes. I'm just shocked and depressed that something that I did when I was 13 might affect if I get into med school.

Thanks.

I'm certain that the best source of answers about AMCAS policies would be AMCAS, so I suggest you contact them. With regard to your application, I can only speak for one school, not 125 of them, but we have human eyes read every application.

Hello everyone,

I am about halfway finished with my M.D./Ph.D. I will be helping answer questions from a student's perspective. Please note that I am NOT on an adcomm, and I will have to defer such questions to those who are.

Regards,
PP

How do med school adcoms ultimately decide to whom to offer admission? How do adcoms keep track of all the applicants? Is a scoring system used to rank applicants? Where does the interview fit in the decision - is a lot of weight given to the interview - i.e., once you have been invited for interview, is your prior "rank score" of less importance, or is the interview just one more factor that may or may not overcome the scoring rank previously assigned to a particular applicant? Or as some suggest, is the interview more of a public relations ploy to sell the school, to leave applicants with a warm fuzzy feeling?

There are 125 different answers to this question of course. Most generally, schools will come up with some system of combining the data they used to decide about whether to offer an interview with how the interview went to make a final ranking of applicants. This ranking may be separated by in vs out of state at some schools. It is then common that human eyes, namely a dean or in other cases a small committee, will look at those near the top of the list and make some decisions which may not be strictly based on a total number score. Again, who, how and when this is done is too variable to generalize.

I can only speak for my school, not the other 124 or so schools, but I am certain that the interview is very important at our school. We spend huge amount of effort on this aspect and we wouldn't need to do this if it was just a "public relations ploy." It would be wrong to assume that the table is leveled going into an interview (although this might be true at some schools, I don't know), but the interview can make a huge positive or negative difference.

I can promise you that if a student with a 42 MCAT and 4.0 GPA behaves like a jerk at the interview, they won't get accepted. Don't believe me? Try it!

In my experience, applicants will often have spend hundreds or thousands of hours preparing for the MCAT and working on their essays. They will spend 2 hours at most practicing for their interview and it shows. Often they'll spend much more time figuring out what to wear to the interview that thinking about what they'll say and practicing it. My suggestion is that before interviewing all applicants practice with someone who is experienced at interviewing people for a job, any job. Have them critically evaluate your body language as well as your answers. Take criticism seriously, it is common to believe that you interview much better than you actually do.

Hi - I am a medical student from a non-traditional background. I am willing to answer some of the more basic questions about applying to medical school.

How do med school adcoms ultimately decide to whom to offer admission? How do adcoms keep track of all the applicants? Is a scoring system used to rank applicants? Where does the interview fit in the decision - is a lot of weight given to the interview - i.e., once you have been invited for interview, is your prior "rank score" of less importance, or is the interview just one more factor that may or may not overcome the scoring rank previously assigned to a particular applicant? Or as some suggest, is the interview more of a public relations ploy to sell the school, to leave applicants with a warm fuzzy feeling?
I'm at a different school than Tildy, and at my school the interview is VERY important. Once you've been invited, the interview becomes a huge determinant in whether you'll get in here. Everyone who gets interviewed has academic credentials that are good enough to get in, or they wouldn't get invited. If the interviewers don't feel like you fit with the program, or if the students you meet think you're a jerk, you won't get in, no matter how great you look on paper. School fit is kind of a subjective thing. But basically, the best advice I can give you is don't be a butt when you go on your interviews. Presumably, you are considering attending my school, so act like you're interested and ask thoughtful questions. Be considerate to everyone you meet. I know at least one person didn't get in because they were rude to one of the admissions secretaries. Bad move. You better believe the Dean of Admissions heard all about it. It's a small world, and everyone knows everyone. Like Tildy said, if you think your interview performance can't keep you out out of med school, you could be in for a very unpleasant surprise.

Dear Mentors,

I have a question regarding interviews. I am applying for the 2008 cycle and will be interviewing in the upcoming year. However, I will be in rural Ghana working with a health and education nonprofit for the year. I am planning to return to the States for about 3 weeks in order to interview. I will be applying to many of the top 20 MD research schools. So my questions:

1. How flexible will schools be in helping me to schedule interviews appropriately?
2. When should I come back? November/early December or February (I have to be in Ghana during January)?

I realize I will have to turn down some interviews based on my scheduling constraints...

Thanks for all advice!

Sarah

Some schools will be flexible, others won't. The earlier you apply and the stronger your application, the more likely you can make it work out. I would aim to come back before the end of the year (eg. November) if you have submitted an early application. I suggest sending an email or other note with your application to the schools or otherwise calling them to let them know of your situation. Only you can decide if any given school is worth an extra trip to the US.

Hello everyone.
I have a question regarding the grading system in my undergraduate institution and how it is viewed by adcoms in terms of GPA. I attended an engineering school, majoring in Biotechnology from 98-02. They utilized a grading system of A, B, C, fail and quarter terms rather than semesters . We did not receive (+) or (-) with our grades and as a result my science GPA and overall GPA's are around 3.1. Most of my grades are A's and B's, but I received a few C's (Physics 1 and 3 and Calculus 2 and 3) which drastically lowered my GPA. I am entering a post-bac program in the spring due to the length of time since I have completed the prereqs, but even if I receive a 4.0, my GPA will not increase much due to number of science classes I have already completed. Should I try to explain that my GPA is low partially because of the grading system or is this already taken into consideration during the review process? Also, I recently received a BS in Nursing from Columbia Univeristy '06 (GPA 3.5), but during this program my passion to become a physician only grew stronger. I have heard that being a nurse can hurt your chances of being admitted into medical school. Is this true and if so, could you give me some guidance as to how I can improve my chances. Thank you in advance for any advice.

As far as grades go, your whole academic record will be looked at and evaluated. What I wanted to comment upon was the issue of nurses going to medical school. Although there are some adcom members who are not happy with this transition as they are concerned about the loss of a needed nurse, for the most part, the reception to nurses applying is very good. You need to be very clear about why you changed your mind. Don't put down nursing (you wouldn't) but make it clear that the medical model and role of a physician is how YOU see yourself and this didn't become clear.

By the way in my experience, nurses usually do very well in medical school.

Miss Scarlet and Professor Plum?! I haven't been to this forum in awhile and I olove it...loved the game "Clue"!

I have already graduated and am now attending summer school to retake a pre-req and then to take the second half of the pre-req for the first time. I have volunteer clinical work as well volunteering for a doctor as a research assistant. Once I finish summer school I really need to get a job to earn money for applications and attending med school if I'm fortunate enough to get in. Should I take any job that pays or should I hold out for something that looks better. If I can't get any sort of related job what else should I do to enhance my application or to make myself stand out. I'm working on one project that should stand out but I'm not really sure how it will turn out. Do you have any suggestions of where i can find health related paid jobs?
I suggest that you visit the career center at your school. They should be able to help you find jobs that fit with your background and interest.

Hello,
I got my undergrad degree at a competitive state school, but now I am working on my pre-med pre-reqs at a smaller school ( University of Houston-Downtown) that is not as well known. Will this reflect poorly on me with med. school admissions? I am here for financial and personal reasons, is this something I should include in my P.S. or should I just wait until the interviewing process?
I just began my prereqs. this summer so I do not want to waste my time and money at this particular school if it will limit my chances of acceptance later. But then again, this school is pretty much my only option. I do not have a car and it is closer via bicycle and light rail transit than the other University of Houston. The 2 are not a part of the same system, by the way.
Thanks!
As long as the school you are attending is accredited, I think you should be fine. Focus on earning high grades and learning as much as you can so that you will be prepared to take the MCAT. If you have an excellent GPA and MCAT score, that will take you far in this process.

Hi,

I have a 3.4 GPA from UCI in BioSci... Last two years avg gpa ~ 3.75

1st attempt MCAT: 29S (11,9,9)
2nd attempt MCAT: 26S (10, 8, 8)

Extensive research, extensive clinical, great EC, great LOR

I was averaging about mid 30s on the diags before my second attempt. Basically, I do not even know what happened. I tried hard and was ready. How do I address this? Should I contact schools to discuss this or am I automatically disregarded as a possible applicant because I did worse the 2nd time. I would think they would take the higher of the two, but thats just me. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.
You should go talk to your premedical advisor. I'm sorry, but I don't know what to tell you.

My sophomore year of college I began doing research in a very prestigious lab on campus (highest paid science PI on campus, lots of grants/awards/etc). I did not work for pay or credit, simply to try out research. I remained in the lab for the spring semester, working about 15 hours/week. I primarily worked with a post-doc.
At the end of the 2nd semester, I realized I wanted to do more medically-applicable research. I talked to the PI and told her my decision. One week later I discussed late adding the course for credit (the PI and I had discussed this earlier and she had said 'yes'), and was told "you better add it as pass/fail because I can't give you an A for this." To sum it up as quickly as possible: I was shocked. I did not add for credit. The situation deteriorated. Since, I have been made aware of several very similar situations with this PI and other undergrads in which the PI has refused to write letters and in some cases written very negative letters.

Now the question: Some schools (Harvard) require a letter from all PI's. I have since done research in 2 other labs and have wonderful recs from both (included with my packet of primary app letters). Do I include this research on AMCAS? Do I track down my post-doc and ask him for a letter? Do I ignore the requirement all together for an LOR? Are there other schools that require LOR's from all research experiences?
I will attempt to schedule and appointment with the PI to see discuss the situation, although I am not hopeful.

Sorry this is so long. Thanks for any and all help.

This is a difficult situation, I will try to break it down and give a few suggestions. I would work under two potentially conflicting guidelines here. First, I would not recommend lying or hiding information that a school specifically asks for. Several reasons for this, not the least of which is the possibility of discovery. I recognize that in the case of non-trads, some of the info asked may be unreasonable. Who can track down a PI from 10 years ago, etc? Some reasonable judgment can be used here. However, in the case of a clearly relevant, recent experience that you are specifically asked about then you must deal with it.

The second princlple is that you should not try to obtain a letter from anyone who will, for near certainty, write specific hostile statements about you. This principle is true at any level, including faculty promotions (one of my other lives is reviewing these letters). You absolutely should not try to talk a faculty that was hostile to you into writing a letter.

You do not need to include this experience on your AMCAS. The situation with any school that wants a letter from every PI is different. I've never heard of this so I doubt it's widespread, but I can't speak for multiple schools. The best resolution to this is to write H or any other school that needs this information a letter and briefly explain the situation to them. I have no idea how H will respond. However, I do know that I read applications all the time in which someone explains something like this that has occurred to them. This does not stop us from offering them an interview

If everything else in your application is positive including the other letters, then the fact you had a bad experience in one setting will not block your application. It may strengthen it as it will give you a chance during the interview to answer the ever-popular "explain a difficult situation you were in and how you resolved it" question.

Good luck!

Is it possible to get advice on how to write the best PSE possible? Any particular things I should mention? Also, I have one really bad year on my transcript (I was diagnosed with a serious medical condition that year), should I mention it on my PSE so as to explain the really bad year?
Overall, my GPA is 3.53, but my annual GPA (GPA for this year) is 3.73. Before the bad year my GPA was much higher: 3.61...
The diagnosis greatly affected my concentration and ability to work well...so should I mention it and also submit a medical note for verification?

Thanks,

scienceisbeauty

Hi - there is no general response that can be given to whether to discuss a specific medical reason for poor school performance. Only you can decide if this is information that you wish to share and have known. You are not obligated to do so and if you mention it, then it becomes known to the adcom and it may be discussed during your interview. There is no reason to submit a medical note unless you wish to.

I apologize for the length of this post, and thank anyone in advance for a reply. I am curious as to how much information regarding certain physical/mental health circumstances I should disclose to medical schools (if any at all) and what constitutes a grade that requires an explanation (although there is never really an excuse per se).
Basic background information:

I attended Colorado College as a freshman.
During that year I battled anorexia, was extremely unhappy, and consequently had a ravaged immune system (my own fault, I admit). I was constantly ill and thus missed a LOT of class. Colorado College operates on the block plan, 1 class every 3.5 weeks from 9-noon M-F, so missing about a week of any given class tends to have dire consequences for one's performance and grade. I was particularly ill when taking general chemistry 1 w/ lab and received a B- (I did not perform as well as I could/should have and also received a B- instead of a B because of the attendance policy). This also happened in another course (went from A- to B+ simply because of attendance policy) and I ended up with a 3.56 gpa for the year. I went home one block early (I still had plenty of credits each semester to be considered a full time student and the semester was not considered incomplete) due to seriously deteriorating health. I then transferred back to the University of Oklahoma in my hometown, partially due to the enticing national merit scholarship package, but largely to study with my french horn professor from high school and attend their excellent school of music (in addition to the pursuit of my zoology degree). My current gpa at OU (after 1 year taking several credit hours) is a 3.9 and my combined gpa is around 3.75 and climbing. I received an A in gen chem 2 at OU. Do I need to explain the B- from Colorado College, and could that alone ruin my chances of admission to top-tier schools assuming my gpa is ultimately somewhere a little above 3.8 (I have 3 more years due to the initial pursuit of 2 degrees so I could easily get a 3.8 and potentially a 3.9)? For these purposes, and because I am on a very good track here at OU, assume my MCAT, ECs, research experience, LORs, etc are competitive. How much information regarding my mental/physical health problems should I disclose? I fear that mentioning my eating disorder (from which I have fully recovered) would lead adcoms to believe that I will starve myself when the pressure gets high in medical school, and that mention of my frequent illness sounds as though I am making excuses for myself, which I do not want to do, but I also don't want that B- to become a fatal flaw in what I feel will otherwise be a strong application.

There is no general answer to what medical information should be disclosed on an application or what grade "requires" an explanation. Only you can decide if you are comfortable with this information being known to the adcom. You can more generally indicate that you had a health problem from which you have recovered if you wish. If a single B- was a fatal flaw (or even a C) there would be many fewer students in medical school. My general recommendation is to be very cautious about providing information about eating disorders and mental health issues on an application unless you feel very comfortable about discussing this aspect of your life.

Does a history of institutional or legal action on my record virtually assure me of not being accepted? How should I handle this? Ignore it or write about it in my essays?

This is a common question and there is no single or simple answer. First of all, I strongly recommend being entirely honest about the situation and following whatever AMCAS or other rules are in effect about reporting the event. But, the real question is, "How will it be viewed by adcoms and how should it be handled on the application"?

First of all, institutional action related to being caught underage with alcohol in a dorm or a related violation is common. Unless there were multiple violations or other factors, I wouldn’t make a big deal out of it on the application. More serious violations of this sort (DUI) absolutely require an explanation. These may or may not stop you from being accepted. However, if one is forthright about it, prepared to explain in very contrite terms how you’ve changed, then it is not an absolute obstacle to admission. You must be prepared to discuss it in your essay and interviews.

A more difficult circumstance is anything related to cheating or academic honor code violations. These can certainly lead to your application being rejected outright related to this event. In general, it would be best to be very, very upfront about this. Send a special letter to each school to which you've applied explaining the entire situation. Have an extra letter sent to schools from a faculty member that addresses what happened or make sure that your letters of recommendation address the situation and explain how you’ve changed and matured. If you can get a letter from a dean or similar high ranking individual indicating that you’ve matured, etc, it is best. There may still be some schools that will not admit you with this on your record. But some will, if you can demonstrate your commitment to change and how distraught you are that this occurred. Under no circumstance ever should you attempt to indicate that you were maltreated in the evaluation of the event. Do not indicate that it wasn't fair that others did the same thing and weren’t caught, punished, etc. It is likely that you won’t be admitted immediately out of undergrad with this on your record, but may need to show maturity by virtue of time spent in the workforce. It does not mean you can not ever get into a US medical school.

The most challenging situation is one in which you have multiple violations of any sort (even dorm alcohol violations) on your record. This would be a huge red flag almost anywhere. In this case, you’ll almost certainly need to spend years after your undergraduate time working and demonstrating that you are a completely different person than the one who violated rules and was caught multiple times.

Hi Adcoms,

I've posted this before, but have another question pertaining to the same situation. I'm gearing up to apply this coming season and was hoping you could give me advice. I graduated from princeton with a pretty dismal 2.98 GPA. I had a rough time my first year and a half of undergrad while dealing with coming out. This year I'm taking some graduate bio courses (many of which are actually first year med school courses) and will probably finish out the year with a 3.5 and I just started a job as a research assistant that I will continue next year while applying. My last MCAT score was a 36Q (12s across the board), i worked for 4 years as a nurse assistant and I've done research in multiple labs around the country since high school. i'm also mexican american and spanish was my first language, for whatever that's worth.

Though I've gotten mixed opinions about whether or not to discuss this in my application because of risking offending people, I've decided I need to talk about it. I'm definitely all about honesty and I don't see how I could ever expect patients to be honest about their lives for the sake of proper treatment without me being able to be open as well. I'm the first to admit that I didn't work hard enough and that's why I ended up with such bad grades, but I also want to convey that I wasn't out boozing and goofing off 7 days a week. So I was wondering about how you think I should best address the situation. I'm more confused about where to include the explanation than about what to say. I don't want to dwell on the negative in my PS, and so I didn't know if I should include this in the explanation of academic probation or in a separate letter included with my secondaries.

Sorry for being so long winded, I'd most definitely appreciate any help you can offer as I'm trying to get my applications out ASAP.

In the previous lives of these advice forums, LizzieM has discussed the issue of your story. I would encourage you to follow her advice and not discuss this issue in depth. A sentence like "I wasn't boozing or goofing off", even if worded better, will not be helpful to an adcom. Much better to, as I've suggested to others, make a very, very brief statement that your initial academic performance was poor due to lack of experience with college (or whatever, but keep it to a few words) and then tell us the positives. Make us want to meet you and hear about what you have to offer. Telling us that you had bad grades but weren't a slacker/drinker won't make me excited to meet you and hear more along this line. Hearing about what you've done in college and what you'd like to do with your career would!

It doesn't matter to me where you put it. I read the whole application I get.

Hello everyone, I am in need of some advice and guidance. I am going to be a junior in this coming fall, and it has taken me 2 years of immaturity and negligence to understand the severity of my consequences due to my actions. I have always wanted to enter the professional field, but am was unsure of whether I would want to due dentistry or medicine. My credentials are good, I have a 3.92 gpa and 3.94 bcpm with many volunteer hours, activities, and leadership experiences. However, I have also made many mistakes in my life. These mistakes have primarily been underage drinking. My freshman year I got in trouble for allowing friends of mine drink alcohol in my room while we were watching a movie, but I was not drinking. We all got in trouble although my consequences were the most minimal. Also, I have received 3 underage drinking tickets from my campus town. The first 2 were dismissed and the 3rd I was placed under supervision. I have never been convicted of anything in my life, and have never received any criminal charges. These were all matters of city ordinance violations, which all 3 will be classified as dismissed including the last after completion of successful supervision. In the past two months I have been sick to my stomach that I have jeopardized or ruined my future. I have spoken with my attorney who assures me that none of these are convictions of any crime, criminal charges, or misdemeanors/felonies. I know I will have to report the dorm incident, but am hesitant on reporting any others. If I truthfully answer the questions which do not require me to list them, how will this affect me? If somehow a medical school found out would they immediately terminate my application or my matriculation status, even though I was not dishonest? What should I do? Dentistry or Medicine? I know that i have changed for sure, because I started reflecting on all this for the past several months after I was diagnosed with a kidney disease. The kidney disease has nothing to do with my underage drinking, in all honesty, I am a average college drinker, and am mostly unlucky and was immature and naive during my first year of undergrad. For the past 5-6 months I have seriously evaluated my life, going to church more, exercising constantly while focusing on my studies. The diagnosis of this disease, which is genetic, has seriously changed my life. I want to achieve all my goals, and don't have time for anymore nonsense. What should I do?

The questions asked by each school should always be answered fully and honestly. The details of your situation and how they should be answered cannot be answered meaningfully here, but require consultation with each school to which you plan to apply. Similarly, we cannot decide on a career pathway for you. If you are this uncertain, then you are not ready to decide yet and need more clinical exposure to make an informed decision.

I have a bachelor's degree and some graduate work, and will of course be providing those transcripts. This summer, I began (with one course) a program at a community college that will provide medical employment if I am not admitted to school. The question is: since they gave me 91 hours of transfer credit at the CC from my BS, will I have to list all the transfer credits as they appear on the CC transcript in AMCAS?

Thank you.

Obviously, you need only list each course once. If it appears on the transcript from your bachelor's degree, you've already listed it and need not list it again.

Hi! I am a rising senior currently in the process of applying to medical school. Last summer I started losing weight unintentionally and went through a semester's worth of doctor's visits and tests before being diagnosed with gastroparesis and IBS in December. Spring semester was spent adapting to diet changes. I now have both of these illnesses completely under control. I did not miss ANY class during these 2 semesters and my GPA was actually the best it has ever been. I know a freqently asked interview question is "tell us about a challenging situation you've been through" and I would love to use this as a example, however I worry that they will label me "sick" and unfit for medical school even though this is not true. Is it worth bringing this up to show how I conquered a tough situation and saw the patient-side of the medical field, or is it too risky? I would greatly appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

The "challenging experience" question is meant to determine how you cope with adversity. If you can come up with a way to answer that question without raising concerns about your current or future health status then it should be a fine example. The key is to focus on your coping skills rather than the circumstances that required you to employ those skills.

When I was in high school, I took 4 classes at a community college during one summer. Due to family emergency, I needed to leave the country and as a result, had 4 "Ws" on my transcripts. These 4 "Ws" put me on "Lack of progress probation" for that community college. I recently graduated from a top university with a 3.75 GPA. I am applying for medical schools right now and I have three questions regarding my situation. First, how will medical schools consider these four Ws? Second, do I need to explain these 4 Ws on my AAMC application? Third, in AAMC application, it asks if I have ever had any institutional probation. Should I check "yes" for this question? Thank you very much for your help!
You absolutely must report the instutional action of having been on probation. This is actually a plus because it gives you a place to explain the Ws on your transcript without gumming up your Personal statement which can focus on your positive attributes and your interest in medicine.

Yes, you were on probation due to the failure to progress. This failure to progress was due to the 4 withdrawals that were necessitated by the family emergency that led you to leave school before the end of the term. Close your paragraph on the Institutional Action with a sentence about how you focused your efforts when you got back to school.

Hi Guys-

Here's my story. I was in a combined medical program, after after the three years I left to do an internship and work as there were some financial problems with my family. The following fall, I was granted admission to a DO school and matriculated after tremendous family pressure. I soon was overwhelmed, and unfortunately withdrew on a leave of absence after failing biochemistry and anatomy.

This was just under seven years ago. Since then, I completed a Masters and have been working in an unrelated industry continuously since. The situation has changed, and though I never wanted to leave medical school in the first place, I want to resume that path I had started.

I wasn't sure how this situation would impact my AMCAS application or future prospective applications to medical school. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Cri

At the very least, you will need to provide the transcript from DO school and list the coursework on your AMCAS. Whether DO school "counts" in the question concerning "previous matriculation" is something you may want to check with AAMC.

I have 7 EX grades on my transcript, which are the equivelant of W's at my school. They do not affect my GPA, and by the time I graduate I will be able to have a GPA of 3.5 or slightly above.

I know it is a lot of excused grades, but if I am able to keep my GPA close to 4.0 for the rest of my two years in undergrad and in my pre-req classes, how much of a negative impact will they have on the adcoms?

Also, I was able to get a lot of these grades excused as I had to drop a couple semesters due to my father's health problems. I got letters from three of my dad's doctors and showed them to some professors and they submitted the grade changes. Is it acceptable or customary to send the letters from my dad's doctors explaining his severe health problems to the medical schools I apply to, or am I suppose to just write about it in my personal statement only?

Thanks for any advice

It would not usually be expected to provide such letters on an application. Certainly you should be able to explain the situation in your essay or other application material and your letters of recommendation may be of help.

I recently submitted my primary application. In my work and experiences sections, I included a very small tidbit of information indicating that I would do something in the future, that I now know I will not be able to do, due to several reasons. I regret this action and now understand why doing this--no matter how certain I may be of a pending event--is unacceptable. Is there typically a section in the secondary application that will provide me with the opportunity to fix this error and clarify the situation, by explaining what happened to change my plans, for example? The mistake I made is small and will undoubtedly be overlooked by most if not all of the ADCOMS that may see my application. However, I don't want any discrepancies on my application.
First check to see if AMCAS will allow you to amend your activities on your application; I'm not sure whether they will. If not, then you might try writing a brief paragraph to explain that you were not able to participate in that activity after all, and send it to each school yourself as a file update.

This is an update to my existing problem (page 2

My GPA would have been an Overall -3.47 and a BCPM of 3.7, but AMCAS calculated classes i took at a community college for summer school when i was 13 and they are 3.26 and 3.37 respecitvely. No, they were not anything crazy (pre algebra classes), I just saw these summer classes as informal and my family would even go on vacations for the finals so I never took any of them and subsequently did poorly. My parents probably should have audited them or something, but i don't think they knew what that was nor did they know it was going to affect me now (medicine is a relatively recent endeavor).

I know that it's nobody's fault but my own, but It's hard for me to put in perspective.

In addition, my 3.46 university GPA is coupled with a strong upward trend with 3.9+'s in all my 3rd and 4th years in both science and non science classes. My father's cancer came out of remission my 2nd year of college and it brought my GPA down a little.

My MCAT is a 35 (13 BS, 12 PS, and 10 VR)


As an ADCOM what would you think of my application based on the information presented?

Thank you so much for your time!

Your MCAT score is very good and an upward trend in your GPA is always better than the opposite. Some secondary applications will ask if there is anything else you would like the admissions committee to know. That might be a good place to explain the situation with the community college classes.

Best of luck to you.

I am a relatively recent college graduate with a degree in Biology. I plan on applying to med school in June '08. I have been working the past 6 months as a Research Associate at a medical school at home. In college, I liked the research that I did so I thought that getting a job in research while I was waiting to apply was a good idea - the problem is that I hate it. I really just don't like it, to the point where I almost dread going to work every day. At first, I just thought it was the lab I am in but I think it's just bench research in general that I don't like. I volunteer at the hospital a couple of nights a week and I can't wait to leave work to go there. Basically, I would rather be doing anything but research.

I guess my question is this. Is it worth it to stay in a job that I am miserable in? Would med schools frown upon leaving a job before a year is up? And would my lack of interest in research make me an undesirable candidate? I love science, so I would really like to find a job that I enjoy. I was thinking clinical research perhaps? I still have two years before I can matriculate (hoping I get into med school on the first try!), and I would really like to find a job that I enjoy. Please Help! (Thank you in advance)
Have you thought things out thoroughly and explored your other options? In other words, if you quit your current job now, do you have another job you can start instead, or are you potentially going to be sitting around doing nothing for a year? I think if you do quit your job, you need to have a plan about what you're going to do to support yourself this year and to replace this job. Don't quit your current job before you have a new one lined up. Also, if and when you do quit, don't burn any bridges. Science is a small world, and you never know when you might run into your bosses again. Give your supervisor two weeks notice and offer to finish any outstanding projects or train your replacement if they need you to. Good luck.

Hi and thanks for your time,

A few of my friends have suggested to me that I have ADD over the past year or so. I looked into it, but never really thought it was a big enough deal for me to seek treatment. I've always thought that I've been a bit of an underachiever, but my MCATs really nailed the point down for me a few days ago. I have a 3.33 but an MCAT of 38.

I haven't yet gone to see a campus psychiatrist, but plan to do so this upcoming week. I'm not looking to explain away three years of mediocre grades, but I do think that I should at least finally see if medical help though counseling or medicine would help me to be able to study more like most other pre-med students.

These questions are somewhat hypothetical in that I have yet to be diagnosed with anything but: if I am diagnosed with ADD or some other learning disability, should I mention it in an interview or on a secondary application? Should I even suggest that it might have been a part of the reason why I've been underperforming in school? Does it look like I'm merely trying to avoid taking responsibility for my underperformance or does it look like I'm being responsible and trying to correct it?

Thank you again

I don't think anyone can answer hypotheticals such as this. In general, I recommend that people think very carefully before revealing personal medical information of any type. In the hypothetical situation you describe, it is likely that there would be a range of responses among adcom members, including some negative reactions. Nonetheless, it is impossible to know how that might affect your application without seeing your letters of recommendation and essays.

Ok, so I thought I had this figured out but now I'm reevaluating my situation. I've been told that I'm in a very grey area so maybe you folks can help me out.

My overall GPA is 3.4 with a strong upward trend (i've been getting closer and closer to 4.0 since soph second semester) while my science (this just takes into account my bio classes and NOT chem/physics) GPA is 3.0. If it helps, all As five chem/physics classes (orgo 1/2, biochem, phys 1/2) and two Bs gen chem classes.

My story is that I was a little immature with my study habits and I lacked academic dedication the first two/three semesters of college. Apparently screw ups in those 3 semesters are coming back to haunt me with the overall/bio GPA. I have one more year to go till graduation with 5-6 possible bio classes still left to take.

I have not taken the MCATs yet mostly because I'm not 100% prepared and probably won't be either until Sep or Jan. I want to take it just once and make sure that I kick ass at it.

I don't have strong ECs mostly because I've had to work full-time non-medical related jobs. However, I'm starting to shadow few physicians and am going for my EMT license so I can start volunteering for a local ambulance company. I was in a frat for a whole year and held few positions including VP.

I thought that if somebody like me did an SMP after undergrad, it would tremendously help my application since I'm on a borderline GPA and possibly borderline MCAT. However, I was advised that with my credentials I may not have to do an SMP at all. Now I'm totally lost. I am somewhat financially strained so I want to make sure that I'm spending money in a smart and efficient manner rather than "oh i'll apply to x number of schools - shot in the dark", understand what I mean?

Best route: apply this cycle/take the sept MCAT with the so-so ECs? wait till senior grades come in and apply next cycle/jan MCAT with EMT experience under belt? OR do an SMP next year regardless of MCAT/senior GPA?

Thank you for taking the time.
You should make an appointment with your premedical advisor; we really can't answer this question. But definitely try not to take the MCAT in September of the year when you apply, because it will make you a very late applicant.

Hi! I have a question about whether it is necessary to frame an upward trend in the optional secondary essay that many schools have available ("Is there anything else we should know?"). My science gpa has an upward trend, 2.5 freshman year, 3.1 sophomore year, 3.3 junior year, and 3.7 senior year from a competitive school. The overall result is still not so good, especially because I didn't take a lot of extra science classes as I am a non-science major.

In any case, is it necessary/recommended for me to say something about this upward trend? And by say something, I guess I would just acknowledge that my earlier performance was poor, but that I have taken responsibility for this by performing well in upper level classes...? I have trouble framing this because it is nobody's fault except my own, nothing bad happened to me, etc. And I want to make sure it is clear that I am fully aware of the fact that it was my responsibility and that I did not live up to it. But I am not the same person that I was 5 years ago.

Any thoughts? Thanks!
I think you can say more or less what you just said here. Try to keep your essay positive and focus on the learning experience aspect rather than being defensive or trying to make excuses for your poor grades freshman year. Good luck.

Do you need assistance figuring out how to enter your work or activities in AMCAS? There is a fantastic thread in pre-allo that addresses just that. Check there first before asking your question here. You may just find what you are looking for!

Entering Work/Activities into AMCAS (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=202513)

Hi everyone

I graduated in May '05 with a degree in psychology and a minor in biology. My undergrad has a pre-health committee that compiles LOR's on behalf of all applicants, and it is headed by a professor that I had a falling out with during my senior year. Without going into details, the committee chair made some very derogatory comments to me and I ended up going to the dean (who sided with me) to make sure this would not become an issue with my committee letter that year. In the end, I decided not to apply until this year and now find myself having to deal with this issue all over again. It is now 2 years later and am wondering if I should have my recommenders send in letters to the schools directly instead of dealing with this issue again. I called the chair this afternoon to ask if I'm still able to request the committee letter. She said I would be able to but I could definitely tell she was not very happy to speak with me, giving me the impression that all is not forgotten. So I was wondering what adcom's might think about an applicant who chooses not to use the committee letter knowing that they are definitely preferred over individual letters. Is this a smart move on my part, or will it raise a lot of red flags?

If I should use individual LOR's, I know that some schools require that you submit a letter saying why you chose not to go through the committee, and I really do not want to mention anything about this issue. Could I explain that 2 years have passed and that I am living in a different state now and feel that the letters from the committee would not be as beneficial to me as those that I could get now?

I am really upset about this whole situation and I would really appreciate hearing any advice you can give me.

:(

In terms of the rules that schools have, then clearly you would need to write to each school and see what they say. However, I think you are asking for a more general comment on how we might see the absence of a committee letter from a graduate of a school we know to have such letters.

Personally, and I know I am not alone in this, I do not like committee letters and have, at times, felt they did the applicant a disservice. This is especially true of committees that actually have an interview process. Inevitably those interviews are harder than ours and the report we get not very useful. Especially for an applicant who has graduated more than a year previously, it would be hard to see the value of a committee letter. Of course, YMMV and some adcoms must like them or else why do they still exist?

I would not even think about why an applicant didn't have such a letter, but I think if it was a large school and the places you were applying were used to seeing these letters, a very brief email or other note indicating that you "chose" to forgo that process for the reasons you described about time and distance would suffice. If adcoms want more info, they can ask you. I bet they don't in most if not all cases.

Never have someone write a letter, committee of otherwise, that may include something "bad" in it. These red flags can greatly harm an otherwise good application. Better to have a few folks ask why you didn't get a committee letter.
Try to have a letter from someone who has worked with you in a scientific or medical capacity since you graduated.

Good luck and don't stress about this issue too much. I know that if committee letters disappeared completely I'd be thrilled.

Question for those who have been on an adcom:
I failed to list a course on my AMCAS app (already verified) that I plan to take in the future (this Fall) and it is a prerequisite course. I am afraid that schools will see that I do not meet their requirements and dismiss me automatically. (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=82360 , posts 3-5) How should I best rectify this situation? Would an email from me informing the adcoms of my intentions to take the course help or would another avenue be better? AMCAS will not allow me to add current and future courses.

thanks.

I doubt that schools will automatically dismiss your application for this. It is certainly best to directly communicate any issue such as this with each school. Email or phone call should be a good start.

I had a 2.5 my first two years of college for no real good valid reasons (didn't know how to study, didn't enjoy my major, didn't enjoy my college). However, I switched schools and majors (to microbiology) and I have had a 4.0 ever since as well as a 3.85 science GPA.

What would be a way to shed some sort of positive light on this very very poor GPA and the major upward trend? I'm not really sure how to address this issue in my PS and in interviews (hopefully).

There's no magical approach. Schools will see the trend and you may be asked about it. As we have suggested in the past, be brief in mentioning this issue in essays. Don't make excuses (meaning don't whine or complain about bad profs, etc, just give a simple explanation) and focus the essay not on past problems but on why you now are the person the medical school wants to interview. At interviews, take the same approach. Simply indicate that you were not prepared for college but that you rapidly improved and have demonstrated your ability to handle the medical school curriculum. If they invited you for an interview then they fundamentally believe this about you anyway, but may question you about it to see how you respond.

Tildy edit: I'm leaving this part of montessori2md's post up so everyone can see how cute the avatar is!

Thanks! In advance...

Because my university was on quarters, and my post-bacc institution is on semesters, I am currently .7 credits short in general chemistry, even though I have completed chem I and chem II. I am similarly short in bio, but that is an easy fix, as I plan on taking microbiology in the fall and that should qualify.

But for gen chem, at what point in the application process should I ask the various admissions offices what my choices are for making up that credit? Is this an email question, or a telephone question? : ) Interested primarily in protocol, obviously I need to deal with this before I schedule spring classes.

What I hope to do is convince various adcomms to accept biochem for that little bit I am short, and failing that, to do a research project in chem for a credit hour. Would prefer that to inorganic or p-chem.

I would do it at the time of sending in secondary applications or at latest when scheduling interviews if one is offered. Email or phone is fine.

But the real reason I answered this is that assuming your avatar is your kid, s/he is really cute and Tildy sure hopes they have a dog to play with :). If you are a Montessori teacher, make sure to talk about that in your essays, etc. It'll be a unique conversation topic for interviews!

Hi Mentors,

I'm applying to medical school next year. A large part of my motivation to apply is due to the fact that several members of my family, including my mother, have active TB. I myself have latent TB.

Would you discourage me from discussing my TB status in my application? I pose no health risks to anyone as long as my TB is latent, and I will undergo a course of antibiotics beginning in August.

I hope to conduct infectious disease research as part of my medical career, and wish to explain the evolution of my interest in the medical field as truthfully as possible.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Unless you are asked a question about it specifically by a school, or are specifically asked a question about ongoing medical treatment, I woudn't bring it up during the application process. There are better ways to discuss your interest in ID. If you are accepted, you should discuss it with the school health officer.

I have deleted your name as I don't think it's needed for this post. If you would prefer your name back here, post and I will put it back in.

Hi Everyone,

I'm a little unsure if this is the right place to do this, but here goes:

I'm a somewhat recent (2004) graduate of a small liberal arts college with degrees in chemistry and religion. I applied once unsuccessfully (2004) and decided to take some time off to improve my application. I applied this past year and I am happy to finally say that I will be attending medical school this fall. Since SDN has been such a great resource for me during college and both my application cycles, I'm here to help pre-meds, and in particular, re-applicants any way I can. I'm pretty much an open book, so barring any inappropriate personal questions, anything is fair game -- PMs are welcome! :)

Hi. I'm a nontraditional student who returned to school after a 5 year absence. I took the pre-med prerequisites for the very first time and I got A's in all of them. The problem I've been told recently is that I only took 8 credits at a time because of other commitments. I'm told this is a problem because I was trying to make up for a poor undergraduate GPA and they say that it doesn't show I can handle the rigors of med school.

Is there anything I can do to improve my chances by next year short of quiting my job to take on a full load in the Fall? Do adcomms view nontraditionals differently in that they know that sometimes they have family and work commitments that keep them from taking 15 credit hours a semester, especially since all 15 hours would be science classes?

If it weren't for reading SDN, it would never have even occurred to me that there was something less than optimal in terms of demonstrating academic capability about working or caring for a family while taking a partial course load. I never have thought of it as an issue nor heard it considered as one in any discussions of which I have been part. I don't think giving up a job or abandoning your family just so you can prove you can go to school full time is a good thing for schools to expect and I doubt that most do. If you can get A's in the classes while holding a job or raising a family (and studying for the MCAT and doing well on it) I have no concern about your ability to handle the class work of medical school. But, obviously somewhere, some adcoms must care. Or so I've heard on SDN.

I was born with a profound hearing loss in both ears. I grew up wearing hearing aids and speech/sign language. I skipped 9th grade to attend the IL Math & Science Academy. I graduated at age 16. I got a cochlear implant at age 18 in 2005. I will be a senior this fall, graduate this spring at age 20, and I plan on doing an SMP or Masters to allow me to "catch up" in age and improve my academic credentials.

I plan on using my deafness as one of my "advertising" points. Having grown up with hearing parents and knowing a few Deaf friends with hearing parents, I see there is often a communication barrier. I want to be a pediatrician because I think that the communication barrier existing between a Deaf child and hearing parents (or a hearing child and Deaf parents) can be detrimental to the health of the child. Since I have been blessed with the ability to communicate via both spoken English (I took Spanish in high school but I am terribly rusty now) and sign language, I believe that I can bridge the communication gap to ensure optimal care and have both the hearing and Deaf audiences trust that they can understand me through my multiple avenues of communication.

I have been receiving advice from both corners of the ring. Some say I should get in on my own credentials and not mention my hearing loss at all. Some say I should definitely point it out because it makes my credentials "look that much better".

I know I want to be a doctor. I am doing undergraduate research this summer in microbiology and I definitely have learned that research is not my calling. I would appreciate suggestions as to how to approach AdComs with my hearing loss. Should I mention it in my essay or wait until I get to interviews? Should I not mention it at all? Thank you for any comments you can offer.

This is not a simple question and ultimately only you can make this decision. First you have to decide whether this is something you want to discuss. You do not have to mention it in your essay. Assuming that it will be apparent during your interview session, then you will likely want to discuss it then, but even at that point it isn't necessary.

But the real question is whether you wish to describe your route towards medicine and your careeer plans by including your experiences with hearing loss. If so, then include it in your essays and be prepared to discuss it at the interviews. If you feel these are completely separate, then don't.

In general, medical schools cannot use your hearing loss in evaluating your application. In my experience, this type of thing has relatively little impact one way or the other on your application. However, as with anyone, if what has gone on in your life related to hearing explains an important part of your passion for medicine, then you are doing yourself a disservice by leaving it out of your application.

In summary, from what you have written and the appearance of comfort you have with discussing your hearing, I would describe your path to medicine in the essay and include your hearing issues and how that affects your future. But do so only to the degree that you feel comfortable doing so, not based on how it might affect your application.

I have a 3.87Gpa chemE, 2yr research, some volunteering at a hospital. My mcat is 24O:o: 7bs,9ps,8vr. I know i can do better since my practices were higher. The seats for the sept mcat is filled and now i'm left with this score

I just wanted to know wat u guys think abt my stats and if i even a shot by applying this cycle considering that i am also URM.

I'm sorry, but our mentors are not able to answer these types of posts. I would suggest asking in pre-allo or pre-osteo:

Pre-allopathic: What are my Chances/Where to Apply? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=362758)
Pre-osteopathic: What are my chances? (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5247194#post5247194)

I am not sure if this is the proper thread for this question, and if it is not please feel free to redirect me/my question to a more appropriate thread. However, I will start here. I plan to spend a year between graduation and medical school working via Americorps at an organization that includes a homeless shelter/food bank/job and rehabilitation services, a clinic, tutoring, and a plethora of other services for migrant workers in southern Colorado. I took an orientation/service trip there through my university and fell in love with the organization, its objectives, and the people it serves, and vowed (to myself) to return for a full year at some point in my life (Preferrably with better Spanish skills)! I feel that the best time to do this might be after I complete my undergraduate degree. However, I don't want medical schools to see this as a lack of excitement about entering medical school or being a doctor. Should I postpone the Americorps endeavor? If I do go ahead and do it after I graduate, would it be wise to apply to medical school during my junior year and ask for deferred admission or apply during my senior year for matriculation a year later?

Pick the pathway that you would like to do. There is no race to get into or through medical school and schools will not look down on you for spending time with a group like Americorps. By spending time doing activities that provide service to others, enrich your experiences, and hopefully help you develop some independence and maturity, you are making yourself a stronger applicant. Medical schools will not criticize that. Try to continue some medically-related shadowing or the like while working, but this is not absolutely critical. I would generally not recommend applying with the intent on deferring since there is no guarantee you will be allowed a deferral, especially if you are accepted off a wait list.

Hello and thank you for reading this:

I am a recent graduate and am applying this cycle. I was subject to disciplinary action in my freshman year, and have since grown and become more self-aware. I have the support of my university and committee letter, and have received a number of secondaries from universities that screen.

My question is: on secondaries that ask for additional information, or anything else that the adcom should know--should I elaborate on what I have already put in my amcas app?

Thank you for your help.
My opinion is that if you've already explained your disciplinary action once, and the school still sent you a secondary, then there's no reason to flog yourself a second time for the same offense. Unless there's a question on the secondary that explicitly asks you to explain your disciplinary action in further detail, I'd talk about something else. Use that space to tell the adcomm something positive about yourself that they can't get from reading your AMCAS. If they want more clarification about your disciplinary action, they will ask you about it at your interview.

Tildy or Madame, will one of you weigh in on this one also?

Hi everyone,
I'm a new moderator for admissions, a third year medical student who just spent a year on my school's committee as a voting member. I have special expertise in non-traditional students and students with challenging undergraduate records.

Standard Questions.
1. Why did you choose your field of study?
I'm not sure why I wanted to be a physician back in high school, if in fact I really did. I started college as a pre-med, but quickly gave up after nearly failing organic chemistry and calculus. After sliding through two successful but un-looked-for careers, I went back to school to get credentialed in my second career. I did well in courses I had really bombed as an undergraduate in the 80s, and decided that as long as I was paddling my canoe, I may as well be paddling it toward a long-held goal. I'm fascinated by the doctor-patient relationship, and like the triple aspect of the career: patient care, scientific advancement and teaching.

2. Where do you see yourself in 10 years?
In practice. Possibly emergency medicine, or anesthesia. I'm just starting third year and leaving my options open.

3. What advice do you have for students planning to enter the field of medicine?
Be sincere, get some good experiences, study hard, and play the game. It takes both, I think. Good luck!

(cross posted for your safety :-))

Hello and thank you for reading this:

I am a recent graduate and am applying this cycle. I was subject to disciplinary action in my freshman year, and have since grown and become more self-aware. I have the support of my university and committee letter, and have received a number of secondaries from universities that screen.

My question is: on secondaries that ask for additional information, or anything else that the adcom should know--should I elaborate on what I have already put in my amcas app?

Thank you for your help.

I agree with Professor Plum's answer but I'm not entirely sure anyone can tell you what to do based on this information. For each school, you need to provide a complete explanation of what happened and why you are not the "same person" now. Optimally, at least one of your letters of recommendation should address this issue. If this has been done in your AMCAS or in other information sent to the schools, then you do not need to write the same things again on secondaries.

Hi, this doesn't really belong here, but its the closest matching thread I can find:)

My question that I would like an ADCOM member to answer is how the committee views exposure and experience in complementary and alternative medicine. Specifically, I'm talking about Complementary medicine, which includes acupuncture, traditional herbal medicine, that generally have state/federal regulatory bodies. Now does this sort of exposure/interest detract from the application? is it dangerous to mention? and will it invite questions of "why medical school"? any advice would be appreciated.

This is an interesting question. I don't really know how different adcom members would feel about it. I think some would find it worth talking about, some would challenge you about it, and others wouldn't say much but might think less of you. What the proportion of each of these is can't be even guessed at!

My recommendation is to go carefully with this area. Indicate an interest in considering using these techniques or at least studying them. Be prepared to explain why you think they have value. Make sure you indicate that you will focus on standard allopathic/osteopathic techniques. In general, there is more risk than likely benefit to you in saying too much about this. However, if it is important to you, then you should talk about it. Just be cautious and emphasizes integrated care including standard medicine and you may make some friends on the adcom and avoid alienating anyone.

One final point relevant to this. Make sure you phrase things positively. That is, do not say things like "Physicians don't know what they are doing" or "Most doctors use too many medications." You are applying to medical school and do not have the basis for these opinions, in addition to the obviously bad idea of criticizing those who are interviewing you.

I would appreciate any advise that anyone would give me. I am trying to decide that best way to make myself a better candidate. I have a BS in Biology form 1978 with a gpa of 2.9, an AAS in Nursing and a BS in Electrical engineering with a gpa of 2.6. I worked in the EE field and was laid off when the dotcom's went bust. I subsequently lost everything. I had to go back to nursing just to survive. I had always aspired to become a physician and got side tracked due to finances etc. I would like to pursue this goal at this time. I repeated the prereq's via independent study, after consulting with several ADCOMS, who told me it was alright to due provided that I had taken the classes with labs. My purpose was to review for the MCAT. I have taken the Kaplan review course and scored 36 on the practice exams. Also, the gpa for the repeated prereq's is 3.8.

I have several options at this point. They are as follows:

1. A post-bac at Hunter

2. ALM at Harvard at the extension school

3. MS in Biology at St. Joseph's in Conn.


My thinking process is the proceeding>

Taking more undergrad classes will not raise my gpa that much higher at this point and when finishing the program, I will have nothing to show for it.

An ALM at Harvard would be excellent, expect there is the thesis. I was told that the program is usually completed in 3-4 years, with the thesis taking 9 months. Time is an issue at this point, but if my chances are better, then the sacrifice is well worth it.


A MS from St. Joseph's is an alternative because one can opt out of the thesis. In this case the program can be completed within 2 years.


I am at a stand still because I don't know which route to take. Any advise would be very much appreciated.


Thank you
I'm sorry, but I don't think we can tell you what to do either. You really should contact one or two of the medical schools where you want to apply and arrange a face-to-face meeting with someone from the admissions staff who has all of the facts in front of him or her and can give you the right advice. Good luck.

MY MCAT scores are not competitive enough for direct admissions. I have taken the MCAT four times and have consistently scored 14O. I recently met with a health advisor who suggested that I may have a learning disability and suggested that I get tested. I met with a specialist and was diagnosed with dyslexia. My question is that if I take the MCAT again (for the fifth time) and achieve a competitive score, will I have a chance of going to medical school?
Sorry, but we can't answer WAMC questions.

Hey, guys! I have a question about letters of recommendation. I did my pre-reqs at a community college so most of my science teachers had Master's, not PhD's. Will this be a problem? I only had one teacher with a PhD, but I'd like my two science letter writers to be two teachers I know will write good letters. Both have Master's though. Are they viewed less valuable?
Why don't you just get all three of them to write you letters? Most schools will allow you to submit up to six letters.

I am a Nurse Practitioner with special circumstances. I initially attended a community college to become a registered nurse then transitioned to a masters program for the nurse practitioner program. I do not have a bachelors degree and the grading system in my graduate program was H-P-L (high pass, pass and low pass). I have started taking the pre-reqs for medical school at a local university but I am not sure how my GPA will be calculated since I did not attend a formal undergraduate program. Can someone assist me with how to best proceed in this situation and tell me how an admissions committees will view my circumstances. Thanks in advance for a reply. - Joydee
Many applicants take some classes P/F, and AMCAS will allow you to enter your HP/P/F grades into their system. Before you apply, you will need to obtain an unofficial copy of your transcript from every school that you have ever attended. Enter the coursework from each transcript on your AMCAS application EXACTLY as it appears on the transcript. AMCAS will then check your transcripts against what you entered into their system, and they will automatically calculate a GPA for you based upon your graded work.

I have been working full time for the past year since graduation. I have had many experiences and I have been a part of many unique opportunities because of my job. I am currently applying and I have been filling out many secondaries. Is it particularly bad to talk a lot about my job? It seems fairly relevant because it is basic science research with some clinical exposure and I have some leadership positions and I get to publish. It is a great job but I don't want it to be the only think I talk about in my essays even though its played a big part of my life for the past year. Thanks for your input.
If your job influenced you to go into medicine, then by all means, discuss it. Are you applying M.D./Ph.D.? If so, then it is definitely important to discuss your research experiences. Good luck.

Hi, I am a premed student who is looking into Texas medical schools. Considering that Texas schools require four, not two, semesters of biology as well as one semester of calculus (hard to get by with AP credit), how do they perceive an applicant who lacks one or two pre-requisite courses at the time of submitting applications? Does the majority of the applicants fulfill all of the required courses before applying? If this is not looked down upon as something negative, does that mean you can send your full (meaning, with all of your pre-requisite course grades) transcript as late as the spring semester after the summer you have submitted the application? Thank you for your guidance.
Most people do finish all of the basic pre-requisites before applying because you need to take them before you sit for the MCAT. But you're talking about extra pre-requisites, and I think as long as you have a plan to get them all done before you matriculate into medical school, you should be ok. You might want to contact a few of the TX schools and double check with them.

Hi. I will be a 2nd yr pre-med student in the fall. Over the past year, I have dealt with being diagnosed with hypothyroidism leading to depression [some what] and the of course obstacles of time management and transition of hs to college. For this reason, I finished with a horrible first year , and Cs in biology/chemistry and physics I. I understand and upward trend will help as well as a good mcat score, but what should I do? Also how should I go about with explaining this? Should I include it in my personal statement when I apply or should I do it by other means?
It's too early to be thinking about that question. Do well this year, focus on learning, medical and volunteer experience, and also having a life outside of school. And don't worry about medical school admissions, at least for another year :)

Hello,

I am an applicant for this current cycle. I am hoping to be very competitive - I have a 3.9, a liberal arts major and hopefully a good MCAT score (my practice test average was about a 37 and I took it yesterday for real). I am very much hoping to get into UCLA, which is where my fiance is attending graduate school this fall. Is there anything I can do to absolutely maximize my chances at getting into this one school? I am an out-of-state resident, but I'll be moving to Los Angeles and working in some kind of a research position at the university or medical school for the interim year.

Thanks!

There is no magic in this, even for strong applicants. I'm not sure your MCAT is going to be available in time for you to apply early decision to UCLA, but you could check with them about this. Failing that, and recognizing that there is more than one medical school in southern California, you should apply to a range of schools in the general area. Only you can decide if you wish to tell the schools in your secondary applications about your fiance. It may or may not help any, but it probably won't hurt. They'll know you're serious about their school (eg UCLA), but that doesn't necessarily mean they will look more favorably on your application than they would otherwise.

Hello mentors,

I have a question about my unique situation. First, some background: I graduated in 2004 with a BS in Exercise Science and due to several missteps--almost entirely in the first two years--ended with a cumulative of 2.75. Now, I am in a state where the school to which I am applying views my UG school as significantly more rigorous and adds 0.5 to applicants' GPAs from this institution (now, several on SDN have contested this and I certainly agree that it seems far-fetched, but I assure you it's true). Between 2004 and the present, I unfortunately had some graduate experiences that did not turn out well due to "life" circumstances. These I partially explained in my PS, and am prepared to do so in my interview. My AMCAS GPA turned out to be 2.67, sadly. This gives me a 3.17 in the medical school's eyes.

My question involves my MCAT. I did not take the pre-requisities (this medical school does not require the normal litany of pre-reqs; they assert that a good MCAT score presupposes you've had the courses. This makes perfect sense to me). I have only had Physics I, A&P, and I received AP credit for 2 semesters of General Chemistry. Having a natural ability in the sciences and also an innate, honed reasoning/comprehension ability, I signed up for and took the July 24th MCAT. I scored a 32 R (10PS, 10VR, 12BS). The Question: how would an adcom react to someone who has an above-average MCAT who did not take the pre-req science courses? I taught myself the material in which I was deficient before the exam. My contention will be such that I am highly capable intellectually, have superb critical thinking skills, steely determination, and a natural penchant for the sciences, and this is how I accomplished the feat. The overall hope is that this will help validate my argument that the GPA/grad program mishaps were highly circumstantial, do not reflect my true ability, and will not be repeated.

That last part is the goal--how might an adcom view this? I'm not asking for "my chances."

Thank you for reading that novel, and thank you in advance for your seasoned advice.

An interesting question. The problem is that you are directing your efforts towards one or two schools with some unusual policies (these are not schools I am at). Since most schools do not add GPA points or allow one to omit prereqs, it is impossible to assess how someone at a school that does those things would look at the application. Although I personally make absolutely no attempt to consider the relationship between an MCAT score and what classes an applicant took (we have no idea if an applicant took prep courses, etc), that might not be true at the schools to which you are applying. All you can do is apply and hope that they see it in the way you wish them to view it.

Hello! First off, thank you very much for your commitment to helping with this forum, we really do appreciate it! Secondly, I apologize if my message seems redudant and long winded but I just want to make sure all of my concerns are mentioned.

Im an entering 5th year senior at a state university, majoring in Biology. My cumulative GPA is ~2.66 and BCMP ~ 2.14. Now, I want to consider all of my options as far as taking more courses to prove that I am not a joke. My last semester GPA was ~3.7, so Im atleast beginning an upward trend. I would like to know which of my options sounds best as far as really proving an upward trend in my undergrad coursework and breaking the 3.0 barrier (or beyond).

My options that I can think of are:

- Graduate in May 2008 (I started in 2003, so it puts me on the 5 year track already) Do a formal post-bacc at the Harvard Extension School where I would retake basic science undergrad coursework, taking only about 32 credits in 2 years to hopefully scrape the 3.0 mark.

- Remain at my state university as an undergrad, continuing into my *6th year, if permitted! Spend only 1 year to retake 32 credits of basic science courses (as opposed to 2 years in the post-bacc) More possibly obtaining higher grades here due to less rigorous coursework. Then, maybe consider taking some upper level courses in a 1 year distance education program at my state university or perhaps through Harvard Extension.

- Any other reasonable options/pathways? Am I missing anything? Please inform me! (I however dont want to consider a Masters Program since its GPA doesnt factor into undergrad. What about 1-year certificate programs?)

So, again, my main concern is that I want to be able to take a sufficient number of credits to convey an upward trend to the admission committee, and also break that 3.0 barrier (and hopefully go further).

I am feeling overwhelmed at this point! Ideally, I want to restore my GPA in the smallest amount of time possible while making myself competitive enough for med school acceptances (provided I apply broadly).

Thank you very much for your time and assistance. :) Sorry again for the long winded message!

To begin with, you need to realize that there is no quick fix for what you are trying to achieve. And while your cumm. GPA is close to 3.0 and in the competitive level, your BCMP is quite low.

You need to ask yourself, what can you do to properly raise your GPA without sliding back down. If this takes more than a year so be it. Your best bet maybe a post bac program. Contact the post bac program that you are interested in and speak to the councilors there to discuss your personal situation.

This is my first post on the site, so I'm sorry if I messed up...

I have a couple of questions regarding an arrest that occurred during my undergrad junior year. Near the end of the first semester, I was arrested with a "friend" (he no longer bears that title :), and was charged with two felonies. I had not actually done anything wrong, but was pointed out by someone as being an "accomplice," and was immediately arrested. Long story short, I went back and forth to court for about 6 months before the charges against me were finally dropped.
This was a difficult time for me, to say the least, and I had the great luck of having these court dates, lawyer meetings, etc., coincide with the most difficult class schedule I had during my undergrad career. I ended up with a C+ in Ochem II, and about an overall 2.8 for the semester. However, I was able to bounce back during my senior year, both with my grades (~3.8, 3.6 overall UG) and MCATs (35)
I did not have to report this incident on the original AMCAS application, because I never went through any trial, and I was not found guilty of anything. I will probably have to talk about it with the schools that specifically requested arrest information on their secondaries, and that is the basis for my first question.

1. Do you have any advice as to how I should talk about what happened, if asked about it (details about the actual incident, the process I went through, the outcome for myself and the person I was arrested with, etc.).

My second question is in regards to the schools that do not know about what happened. If I had a choice, I would not bring it up at all. However, this played a big part in causing my poor grades during the semester this all took place - and the schools may ask me what went wrong during this semester.

2. I would like to know if I should just attribute the cause for this problem semester (if asked) to "personal problems" and a difficult class schedule, and leave it at that - or if I should go into it and explain the entire situation.

Thank you for reading my post, and appreciate any help you can give me.

These are difficult questions and there is no absolute answer. My general sense is that if you were completely cleared of all responsibility that this is something you should be very up-front about in your essays. If you do discuss this episode in any essays it will be fair game at interviews though, so be prepared for that. I think "personal problems" will not sound good and it would be better to not say anything about that semester UNLESS you are going to be completely honest about what happened (as I personally recommend).

If and when you do tell the story, try to do so in a way that makes it clear that although you did nothing LEGALLY wrong, you recognize that you made mistakes from which you have learned. Provide evidence, via letters of rec, grades, volunteer service of the type of person you are and that the episode did not reflect on you as a person. This type of contrition will get you farther than attempting to only blame the other person, etc. Remember, an interview is not a court of law. Contrition and using the experience as a learning experience will get you the farthest.

My heart is set on pursuing a career in medicine,:love: but attending medical school seems to be a bit more than I thought.:scared: I graduated with a 2.3 GPA. I retook a few classes but that only brought me up to a 2.5:thumbdown. I know that GPA and MCAT scores are the dominant factors in admissions to even look at your application. Will they pay attention to the fact that I have a 3.8 GPA:thumbup: in grad school (MHA), or I the fact that have a LPN :thumbup: and have been working in a nursing home to gain healthcare experience? I've tried to see someone at my undergrad school, but no one is available to speak with to help me. I am not looking apply till end of 2008. But a lot of money will go into retaking the classes that may not even boost my GPA up if I'm taking the class for the second time. I used the AAMC grading, not good. Can someone give me some advice, alternatives:confused::confused:. I'm thinking of nursing but my heart isn't in it, it would be settling for the next best thing in my eyes. :(
I took a look at your profile; with a 2.5 GPA and a 15 MCAT, your academic profile is currently too weak for you to apply to medical school successfully. I suggest that you start by thinking long and hard about what you want to accomplish. Is an MD or DO really necessary to do it? What other options (ex. RN, PA, NP) are open to you that would allow you to accomplish your career goals? If you decide that you really do need an MD, what about going to medical school offshore? In addition, you should get some counseling about what you can do to improve your study habits and earn all As and Bs from here on out. Regardless of what kind of program you wind up choosing, improving your study habits will be essential. If you cannot get counseling from your college, look into hiring a professional career counselor who can help guide you.

Best of luck to you. :)

I am reviving this thread for those of you who are interested in asking about how to explain special circumstances on your apps to adcoms. I am a third year nontraditional med student and a student adcom with full voting privileges.

Rules:

1) Please read the first post on this thread before posting a question to make sure that your question hasn't already been answered.

2) Please do not PM questions to me or any of the other adcoms who answer questions in this thread. If you have an unanswered question that is worth asking, other people will want to know the answer too. So please post it here.

3) I am an adcom, not a fortuneteller. So please, no "what are my chances" (WAMC) posts. There is a subforum especially for WAMC threads that is even called the WAMC subforum. You can find it listed under the pre-allo forum.

4) Please respect the time of those who are trying to help you. No one wants to read your entire PS and secondary essays in order to answer your question. So please decide what the salient features of your issue are, and only post a *brief* message. To me, a brief message is one normal-sized paragraph, maybe two at most. If you can't explain your issue in that amount of space, you probably need to go make an appointment with your premed advisor.

Best of luck to all the applicants. :)

During my first semesster in college I was sexually assualted bya fellow student, my older brother was killed in a car accident at the ahnds of a drunk driver, and I was diagnosed with testicular cancer. (I am now cancer free thank god!!!) I am still trying to figure out who I pissed off to end up with the first semester/year of college I did. Unsurprisingly, I essentially failing and was placed on academic probabtion by the school. I have since withdrawn from the school and enrolled in the CC in my town. I plan to transfer out this summer to XX State (tons of AP credits). I know that I am a capable student despite these circumstances and or my label as a URM. I am trying as hard as I can to rebound from these circumstances. I am volunteering as a court advocate/ first responder/speaker as well as orgainizing a fundrasier with a county Sexual Assualt and Domestic Violence Prevention oganization. I have also recently gotten involved with Students Against Drunk Driving and a number of organizations that deal with issues that have occured over my short lifetime. I am also still continuing to spend time in the hospital to further solidify my desire to pursue medicine. I have questions about the CC issue and how to go about explaining these circumstances on the AMCAS. I also wanted to know whether or not I should apply as a disadvantaged student?

Any input from an adcom or administrator would be greatly appreciated!
To say you've had a rough first semester is an understatement, and it sounds like this was fairly recent. I think you should slow down and take things one step at a time. Make sure that you are healthy both in body and in mind, and don't take on too much before you are ready to handle it. It's great that you are trying to help others cope with their problems based on your experiences, but I hope that someone is also helping you!

First, it's fine for you to be at a community college for the semester. I don't think anyone who knew about your circumstances would begrudge you withdrawing from your first school after all you went through there. That being said, transferring to your state U is a good idea when you are ready.

Second, what you explain on AMCAS is entirely up to you. It is not necessary for you to give all of the details; you can simply say that you had an illness as well as some major personal and family issues that all came up at the same time. Remember that anything you write in your essays or on your app is fair game come interview time. If you feel unable to discuss things like your cancer, your brother's death, and the sexual assault with a perfect stranger, you might want to consider *not* discussing these events on your app.

Finally, disadvantaged status is usually based on your family's income level. You didn't provide any info concerning your family's finances or other significant difficulties you may have had before you got to college, so I don't know if you'd qualify as disadvantaged or not.

Best wishes for your recovery and lots of luck to you. :)

Last winter I was a junior at XXX College when I found out I was pregnant. I thought I had a supportive boyfriend until I discovered that he contacted the police and the college to accuse me of raping him. I was treated horribly by the college and called a rapist. I was 20, he was 22, and I did not have a weapon. I felt like the school's actions were caused by racial biases, like since I'm a black female it is possible for me to rape a white male twice my size... I don't know maybe that wasn't the reason. I had no idea why my school's administration would support such an awful, false allegation. I became angry and impulsively took the boy's computer from his room and hid it in a bathroom. He found out, pressed charges, and I was arrested and criminally charged with "receiving stolen property." My record won't be expunged for three years. I was so traumatized that I moved to Spain for almost a year (working as an au pair, teaching english, studying in Barcelona) and now I have returned to the States. Even though I hate the administration and do not trust them at all, I will be returning to XXX soon as a junior (again). I would like to continue with my dream of becoming a doctor, but I don't believe that I am competitive enough to even try now. Before the incident I was a typical pre-med student with lots of ec activities, good grades, neuroscience major, research, good relationships with profs, etc. I am planning on taking the MCAT in May, but I honestly dread being further humiliated by the medical school admissions process. I also don't want to waste money that I don't really have on applications if I can't get admitted.

Can someone please give me advice on whether or not I should continue to pursue a medical career and if so, what could I do to improve my terrible record? Will medical schools be understanding? I can't believe one mistake should change the course of a person's life. I have been working toward becoming a doctor since I was 7 when my little sister got pneumococcal meningitis and I started "living" in hospitals with my parents. Nurses live in my home 24/7 to help my parents take care of my deaf/blind/vegetable like little sister. I have worked so hard for this I know I can be a great doctor and I don't want to give up now. Thank you so much for any help.
First, I am very sorry to hear about what happened to you; I think anyone would be traumatized if they were falsely accused of rape.

Unfortunately, I don't think any of us can answer your question about how "understanding" med schools will be. I am trying to imagine how I would react if I had your app in front of me and read that you had been accused of rape and charged with receiving stolen property, and I honestly don't know what I would think without seeing your entire app and having more details about the circumstances.

It's also not clear to me whether you have any criminal record of being accused, charged, or convicted of rape, or only for stealing the computer. The situation is a lot more difficult if you were convicted of rape, particularly if it was a felony conviction. Regardless, you will have an opportunity on your secondaries to explain any criminal record.

In the meantime, you cannot go back and change the past, but you still have control over what you will do now. You already know the importance of having a strong academic record, ECs, and faculty relationships, and you should continue doing all of these things. I am a little concerned though that you don't trust your school's administration and yet you are going back there. I wonder if it might help you to transfer to another school where the environment would be more supportive for you, especially if a lot of people at your old school know about the accusations and believe that you are a rapist. You could be in for a very long year and a half under those circumstances. If your ex-boyfriend is still in school there, I suggest thinking even more seriously about going somewhere else.

Best of luck to you. :)

I started at a CC with a 4.0 while I was in HS, then tragic family circumstances significantly affected my GPA. I almost dropped out of college, but decided that somehow I had to drag through the CC even though I didn't want to be there anymore (had no other choice due to circumstances - couldn't transfer). Anyway, after several years my GPA dropped to 2.5 mostly because of some Fs in higher math courses. I also got some Cs in Ochem (including one repeat). I stopped going to CC altogether, worked for a year, and took a couple of courses at a top 5 school with a B+ average. Then I just transferred to a UC because I could finally do it. My GPA here so far is 4.0 in a very heavy science load - physics and neuroscience.

The reason I am in a tough situation is because I took too many semester units at a CC, which amount to about 240 quarter units after close to five years of attendance (only 2 years full time)!! I was very lambasted when I found out that AMCAS calculates all the repeat grades. I thought that my CC grades weren't even going to count. Anyway, based on the huge number of units I have taken at the CC, I am looking at an overall cGPA and BCPM of around 3.0 even if I continue maintaining close to 4.0 full time (15-20 unites per quarter+summer) in all BCPM courses at a UC. I am working very hard since I also have several demanding ECs: two jobs (legal assistant + NASA), research, a very special volunteering program where I do rotations through departments like OR and ER and really perform vital duties, help a non-profit organization that is increasing funds to build a Buddhist monastery in India, and next quarter I will likely start a research in med school based on my own proposal.

I never waiver about my goal, but sometimes I do have depressing moments about reality - is there any chance that med schools will judge me based on my more recent record at the higher ranked schools, just like the adcom above suggested? Would you recommend retaking a class like OChem (I got a C in CC) at the UC?

Because of my goals, my dream has been to attend some of the top medical schools in the US, but right now I don’t even know if these schools will even look at my application. Frankly, I don’t even know if I will get into any US MD school. I know that SMPs are an option, but because of the expense and the extra time required, I am really trying to at least attempt one cycle to see if I am successful. Being from CA doesn't help either. I intend to meet with counselors from all CA schools before I apply. If you have any additional suggestions, please let me know.
I'm not sure exactly what your goals are that require you to go to "some of the top medical schools in the US," but you should realize if you don't already that even many stellar candidates do not attend these schools for various reasons. My main advice for you would be to focus on getting into medical school *period.* Unfortunately, no one, even if they look perfect on paper, has the luxury of insisting on attending a particular school until the acceptance is in hand. In addition, there is nothing you can accomplish at a school highly ranked by USNWR that you can't do at any medical school. If your future school somehow does not offer the opportunities you want, you can still choose to do away rotations and research at other institutions as a visiting medical student.

How medical schools will evaluate your record is probably school-dependent. My school is "non-trad friendly" in the sense that a high post-bac GPA will be taken into consideration even if your old grades and overall GPA are below our averages, especially if you have a competitive MCAT score. (You didn't mention whether you've already taken the MCAT, but getting a good score, ideally 33+, would be very helpful for you.) On the other hand, giving the impression that you mainly want to attend this school because of its "prestige" would be a turnoff to many of the adcoms, including me.

Ok, so what would I do if I were in your position?

1) Apply to DO schools as well as MD schools. Especially if you are retaking classes you did poorly in the first time, you can replace lower grades with better ones and raise your GPA to a competitive level much more quickly.

2) Continue to maintain a 3.8+ GPA in your post-bac. Consider taking some upper level science classes to demonstrate academic capability. Prepare thoroughly for the MCAT and aim for a 33+. You could do an SMP if you want, but I personally don't think it's necessary if you have good post-bac grades. Other adcoms may disagree.

3) Your ECs sound interesting and worthwhile. The only concern I have is that you may not have enough clinical exposure. Do you shadow physicians or otherwise interact with them during your rotations?

4) When you go to apply, make sure to apply *broadly.* Go through the MSAR and pick schools that you think would be good fits and that take residents of CA. You are coming from a very competitive state, and there would be no guarantees of getting into a CA school even if you didn't have a (hopefully) rehabilitated academic record. Also, my personal advice is to focus on schools in the Midwest and South. Many premeds prefer living on the coasts, and there are a lot of great schools in the middle of the country that don't get nearly as many apps as schools located in CA, NYC, Boston, etc.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you. :)

Hi,

I guess I'm a very special case experiencing very difficult personal situation. I would appreciate any advice regarding what and if should I put the following information into my personal essay:
- my husband and I will fill for divorce. My husband has a pending case for family violence so I can not continue this relationship, however it will put me in the very difficult position as I will stay in the beginning of May with 2 children (4 years and 1 year old) on my own.
- my MCAT is scheduled for June 18th, but I really have little chances to study, therefore I'm at high risk not to score high
Would it serve as a reasonable explanation if I score low, is there no explanation for low score?

or should I may be talk about that with the academic adviser?
I am very sorry to hear about your situation. My advice is that you postpone taking the MCAT until a time when you feel better prepared to take it. Consider also that anything you put on your application is fair game for interviews. Ideally, you would avoid discussing anything about this situation on your app. But if you do choose to tell the adcom about it, you must be prepared to discuss it at your interviews as well, which could potentially be awkward or uncomfortable for you. Hope this helps, and best of luck to you.

Hi, it'd be great to receive some feedback about my situation.

I'm 24 years old, and still have not completed my undergrad.
I have switched universities, from an okay/mediocre school to an ivy league.
My majors are psychology and biology.
I have not completed my undergrad and have taken multiple semesters off/never taken full course load because:
1) My mother was ill with and passed away from cancer and took time off to be with my family/returning to school after her death, but with reduced course load.
2) I have struggled with an eating disorder and took time off for treatment.

Thus, I have to account for my Ws, random semesters of disappearing, and perhaps why I switched universities midway my education.

My questions are twofold:
[1] I know I can explain in person, but how do I even get the opportunity to explain in an interview if (some? all?) adcoms will automatically say "oh, she never took 5 courses per semester, so she's out!"
Will they even read my personal statement even if they don't like the looks of my transcript? (For what it's worth, my GPA is 3.87; I have not yet taken the MCAT)

[2] What SHOULD I say? I have to present myself as the less mentally stable one in fear of reducing my chances. ( I have not recovered from my eating disorder but continue to live with it so that it's not interfering with my life like it once was, and I don't want to wait for "the magic day" when it vanishes, because I don't think that will happen... (I want to continue to work towards my goal of being a GREAT DOCTOR! which I firmly believe that I can be if my disorder is under control even if it's not *gone*, and I believe that time in itself will continue to help me.)
Granted, these experiences have definitely shaped who I am as a person and have influenced my desire to be a physician: (I have always wanted to be a doctor but it is with my own personal experiences that I have actually narrowed my focus and internalized the desire to help others...)

So I'm thinking, just account for ONE thing (and not appear like a headcase with a gazillion issues), namely what is less of a stigma: my mothers' illness.

What do you guys suggest?? Sorry for being longwinded, I tried to describe what IS a complicated situation, in as much of a simplified was as possible. :o

Hi,

I was arrested for shoplifting in 2006 and I had to take a class to get it removed from my record. Now, do I have to say 'yes' to the question of have you even been convicted of a misdemeanor...? If yes, then how much will it hurt my application? I am really tensed about this situation and my other stats are average! So I am really worried about this situation, please give me an advice.
Thanks

Hello,
I plan to apply for medical school in the next application cycle and I have a misdemeanor conviction for receiving stolen property. I really have no idea that the property was stolen but according to the DA I SHOULD'VE known. I did serve 30 days of community service for the charge. Now I would appreciate it if anybody can tell me how medical school admission committee view applicants with prior record. Would they deny me admission solely based on the fact that I was convicted or would they look at the circumstances as well and give me a chance to explain myself?

Hello,
I plan to apply to medical school in the next application cycle but I was charged with a misdemeanor for receiving stolen property recently. A former friend used stolen credit card to buy things and use my house as a shipping address. Would medical schools reject my application because of this or would they give me a chance to explain myself in the interview (if my stats are strong enough to get me an interview of course)? I also have some concerns about medical licensing boards; I did some research for CA medical boards and it looks like that if the charge is not durgs, alcohol, or violent then they would give you a chance to explain yourself. Can anybody help me with my situation?

I am a junior at an Ivy league UG. I started off in the engineering school as a bio engineer and did so for the first 3 semesters. As a freshman i took 5 and 6.5 classes in my fall and spring semesters respectively with 10.5 of them being math sciences classes with 5 labs. As a result of taking these classes so early on and all at once my gpa is less than ideal (plan to have about a 3.4 science and a 3.45 regular gpa by the time I apply). I have since switched out of engineering and into the honors program for neuroscience which involves two semesters of independent research and I am on course to recieve a chem minor. I worked full time this summer at the neuro dept of the Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia where I will continue my research and have been published.

I also do EMT work with ample volunteer hours and have logged hours in the ER and shadowing, so I figure research and clinical experience should be fairly strong aspects for me. I also have athletics leadership and foreign language fluency, and I tutor inner city kids in chess which I figure can't hurt. I plan to take the MCATs this spring, but I'm curious as to what score I should aim for. I understand that every school has different requirements but to be a competitive applicant at a mid level school. I guess what this really boils down to is that I am unsure as to the extent to which my engineering begining and my UG school will be taken into account for GPA, and how much I must make up for it on the MCAT.

Is it worth it to take a year off? I have mostly filler classes left to take senior year so my gpa would be higher if I took a year off, but I have already completed most all of the science classes so I don't forsee any significant change in my science GPA, so I am reluctant to do so.

I appreciate any input you may have.

Hello,
I took the DAT July 2009 and did not score at a competitive level (18AA 19TS 20PA), so I decided to pursue my backup plan, which was optometry. I applied to numerous optometry schools and was accepted to all. Currently I'm a first year optometry student and have regretted my decision to ever attend. I've come to realize that my true passion and desire has always been dentistry and because of the pressure I felt from my family to not take a year off inbetween undergrad and professional school, I applied. I'll be finishing up my 2nd quarter and want to leave the program.

My questions are: I'll be leaving the program regardless, but should I leave after I've completed my first year or after I complete this quarter? I'd be willing to take an SMP or Master's program will continuing to shadow dentists in the meantime. I know professional programs frown upon students already applying or attending other programs, so will this have a major impact on my applications to dental school or just result in complete rejection?

Hi,
I am not sure if I should post here to ask someone in the Military Medicine section, but here is my current situation.
I am 20 years old, married, and have a 2 month old. I had to grow up very young due to family circumstances, was emancipated at 16, went to Germany for a year as an exchange student, and ended up staying there till last year. I started going to school at UCF spring of 2010.
My grades are not perfect, mainly because I had my daughter while going to school and made things a little tough. I have and will continue to take more classes than my peers and classes during the summer to catch up. Is that a bad thing? Should I slow down and get A’s? or continue at a fast and strenuous pace will raising a child and get B’s and A’s?
I plan on going to USUHS (Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences) in MD, and want to go into Ortho. I also currently volunteer at the Orlando VA Hospital and I go on medical missions and help run a pharmacy off the Amazon and Black rivers in Brazil with my in laws. (They are missionaries)
So basically, what should I do to improve my chances and what in your opinion do I need to do with volunteering, gpa, and mcat?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Here's my story:


Solid 4.0 at strong research university for first two years of college
Spring semester of junior year, struggled with eating disorder and had to withdraw all my classes and leave on medical leave. This put me on academic probation.
Continued to senior year and had problems with eating disorder again. I had no choice but to withdraw/drop all classes for fall semester and was asked to leave school for awhile (since once you are on academic probation you HAVE you get off it the next semester).
Remained out of school for spring semester (of my original senior year) and returned the following fall. Finished school that year and I'm graduating tomorrow with a 3.88 in Biology. Eating disorder is CONQUERED!

I'm not sure of a few things. First, my school's request that I take time off is not on my record and never was. Is this something that I need to report in applications? I feel like it is but my registrar says no. Is this going to look terrible if it's on my app?/How should I explain this?

Second, I have to take my MCAT this August (my previous score expired). Since I have a spotty record, would you advise waiting until next year to apply so that I can get my apps in early? Or will having a 2 year gap between med school and undergrad look even worse since I was already out of school for medical problems?

Here's my story:


Solid 4.0 at strong research university for first two years of college
Spring semester of junior year, struggled with eating disorder and had to withdraw all my classes and leave on medical leave. This put me on academic probation.
Continued to senior year and had problems with eating disorder again. I had no choice but to withdraw/drop all classes for fall semester and was asked to leave school for awhile (since once you are on academic probation you HAVE you get off it the next semester).
Remained out of school for spring semester (of my original senior year) and returned the following fall. Finished school that year and I'm graduating tomorrow with a 3.88 in Biology. Eating disorder is CONQUERED!

I'm not sure of a few things. First, my school's request that I take time off is not on my record and never was. Is this something that I need to report in applications? I feel like it is but my registrar says no. Is this going to look terrible if it's on my app?/How should I explain this?

Second, I have to take my MCAT this August (my previous score expired). Since I have a spotty record, would you advise waiting until next year to apply so that I can get my apps in early? Or will having a 2 year gap between med school and undergrad look even worse since I was already out of school for medical problems?

Hello,

I appologize for bumping an old thread but came across it on a google search. My question was touched on in an earlier post but was hoping for some clarification. Im not a medical student but I am working on my second degree in nursing after graduating a few years ago in mechanical engineering. Im currently finishing my A&P pre-reqs and will apply to the nursing program in the fall while I work on my bridge courses. My ultimate goal is the go to Anesthesia school to become a CRNA.

My problem arrises after being charged with a DUI this week. I have never even had as much as a speeding ticket at 25 years old.. a completely clean record. I was not even driving my car either. I had left a bar and was sitting in my car waiting for a friend to give me a ride but apparently made the mistake of turning the car on to get some AC and listen to some music while I waited. The officer must have seen me leave the bar and walk to my car because as soon as I looked up from turning the key he was at my window. Im told this is something that can be dropped given the scenario and the fact that I have such a clean record. If it is not dropped Ive also been told that as a first offense I can have this expunged from my records with some community service/classes. The court date is the 13th of July and I have what is apparently the "best lawyer in town." Will this be much of a road block as I have to apply to the program by Sept. 15? If the charges are not dropped and I do have to take classes and cannot have this expunged (if possible) in time to apply do I wait a year to apply or just go ahead and apply anyway? I know there are a lot of variables here (state to state; I live in NC) but maybe just some general clarification would help.

Sorry for the lengthiness here, this is just very frustrating and saddening as this is not who I am as shown by my track record. I work full time in the OR at a local hospital as an anesthesia tech and am putting myself through full time school so needless to say Im very ambitious and feel like Im a contributing member to society; not a criminal menace. Thank you for any help.

Hi, I'm going to apologize in advanced for the length my post might be... I have a complicated situation (I think).
My big problem: I got a 24 on the MCAT.
I have been working hard for as long as I can remember so I would have the best possible chance of getting into medical school. I love medicine to an extent that most people cannot understand. I have been raised on medicine: my sister has had full time nursing in our house for her mental/physical disabilities for years, my other sister is a 3rd year resident, my mom is a nurse practitioner, and I am a patient. I have a passion that I honestly don't know how to explain in words... all I can say is that I feel it. Crazy? Probably, lol, but I'm ok with that.
My problem is that I have lung disease, which had not been a problem until now. I took my MCAT on May 25th; before I had any idea that my world was going to go crazy at the worst possible time. In April I had to travel to Florida for 2 weeks because my grandma got sick and passed away. I missed 2 weeks of my semester, but was keeping up just fine. The week I returned to school, however, my lung collapsed. I was in the hospital for a week, leading to a total of 3 weeks of missed classes with just one week until finals and 4 weeks until the MCAT. I pulled out the semester with decent grades, though not up to par with my previous grades (3 A- and 3 A, so I was satisfied considering the circumstances).
After finals I was exhausted, but no rest for the pre-med! :) I began to study, though I had lost an entire month of preparation to the pseudo-apoctalyptic cascade that had just occurred. I studied hard until the day of the test, though I did not get as far as I had planned when I was under the impression that I would have more than 3 weeks to get ready.
The night before the test I felt my lung collapse again... but there was absolutely no way I was going to miss this test, not after everything else. I went to take the test, despite a little increased work of breathing and some not-so-fun pain. I really feel that this is what contributed most dramatically to my below average (to put it nicely) score. I took the test, and ended up in the hospital for the next month or so. I was admitted for longer than expected because my doctors decided it was time for pleurodesis so that my lungs would never be able to collapse again (YAY!!). Although I will never have another (foreseeable) problem that will prevent my participation in a medical school situation again... it seems that it may have come too late. My application was already in. I stuck to in-state schools. And I just planned on hoping that the work I had done for years would be noticed before the MCAT score and that the one (HUGE) blemish on my application wouldn't render all of that work useless.
I have gotten one secondary... possibly my only chance of not being screened out... and I need to decide if I will bring up this information in the 'explain any lapse in undergraduate education' section of the secondary, or just keep on hoping that I'm catching the break of a lifetime. I have absolutely no idea what would be best, or if I have any hint of a chance... but I refuse to give up, so I want to do everything possible to show that, despite this setback, I CAN do medical school.
Thank you for any advice... and sorry, again, for writing out a novel... I tried to stick to the cliff notes version...

Dear Mentors,

I have a low uGPA (3.3) with an average MCAT (30Q) and have tried to illustrate I am competent my doing an SMP (Gtown 3.7).

I am applying this cycle but have not been doing well (no interviews, and only secondary from UC Davis, In State Student). I'm just wondering if it was unwise to talk about my sister's battle with schizophrenia PS as the reason I got interested in medicine.

In addition, to address my low undergrad GPA I also elaborated on how her illness put alot of stress on the family which effectively directly much of my focus away from scholarly pursuits and towards keeping the family one.

Thanks!