Interviews are (almost) over! Congrats everyone! I’m still debating between the following programs, but have a tentative rank list in my own mind. Any other thoughts would be helpful…

UW: (+) - Dr. Steinberg and program leadership excited about improving weaknesses of program, old concerns seem to be resolved, awesome clinical experience with multiple hospitals and range of pathology, seattle, strong fellowships, strong across the board but esp ID/pulm cc

Penn: (+) - Dr. Bellini is an amazing and loved program director, more supportive atmosphere than I originally expected (similar to BWH), very strong clinical training program, three-hospital exposure with Penn/Presbyterian/VA, strong fellowships equal to UW and Columbia, Philly is a nice city

Columbia: (+) - very academic program, very sharp residents, innovative two attending system that apparently works well, autonomy with enough backup/help as needed, very strong match list, NYC!, the patient population is very diverse which is an advantage in my opinion.

Stanford: (+) – nice PD but not as impressed with the program, residents not as active during morning report, clinical training not as broad as other programs

UCLA (+) – pleasantly surprised with the program, collegial place to train, complex patients but residents are very confident clinically and very happy to be there

Duke: (+) – sharp residents who are strong clinically and know the guidelines and literature, unique sign-outs with chief residents, very responsive to change (and making several changes for incoming interns to increase education and decrease busywork), residents without any sense of arrogance, awesome PD and chair, strong fellowships, city actually has a lot to offer for singles and married people

Anyone else comparing these programs?

I've got largely the same situation, trying to figure out my #s 3-5. I think Penn/UW/Columbia all vie for those spots. I'm not sure UCLA had quite the same matchlist as these guys, though certainly better weather. My issue with Columbia was the language barrier...I don't speak Spanish and while everyone has said you pick it up to some degree, I'm not sure I wanted to deal with that and I'm not sure that I'd ever be fluent enough to get by in a complex discussion without an interpreter present. I loved the UW program director and Seattle is definitely a cooler city than Philly...it's going to be a tough decision...

I'm in the same boat too. I think Steinberg is great and I fully agree that, under his leadership, the concerns from years past have faded. Most importantly, Seattle is awesome. That said, I disagree with you, their match list is weak (one in gi - at UW - and a couple in cards). It's a concern that I am not fully certain can be put aside - it's happened that way for more than one year.

Also on the subject of match lists, I was a little surprised by Penn. There was a lot of talk during the day about how their graduates get "all the best fellowships". But the truth is that their GI and cards track records are mixed, at best; very limited placement at top programs, and very few GI placements overall. There's a least a couple handfulls of programs that could, if history is any guage, set you up for a competitive fellowship better than penn (if that's what you're in to). Their Onc placement, on the other hand, is phenomenal. Still, I think Philly is great and the clinical exposure is fantastic. The atmosphere also seemed very supportive. But I also felt something..."off" about the whole package. I have heard other people say the same thing - I can't explain it further, it's just a little funky

On a related note, anyone get a matchlist from ucsf broken down by year with more specifics about where people matched? They grouped all of their matches for the past 5 years, which i found surprising - i'd have thought they'd have jumped at the chance to show off their placements given that they're a top-tier program...

Great thread. I’m debating my #3-5 also.

I don’t think SF handed out a match-list broken down by year; I guess the only way to get this info is to email them or find out from a med student there. Although, I’m not particularly worried :)

For Columbia, I have some friends there for med school. None of the three knew Spanish before starting, and after the initial two months of being anxious about "learning" Spanish, they realized that they were doing perfectly fine. And not only doing fine, but they now seem to love being there. I’m not sure if this is a combination of good translator services or picking up what one needs to know. But this initial concern quickly vanished, and they now love taking care of their diverse patients. But I agree - it’s something to consider.

And finally to address the comments about fellowship match lists. After meeting with my PD and chairman, I realize that as applicants we tend to compare these lists to the point of almost going crazy, when there are a lot of intangibles (i.e. fellowship match lists reflect applicant biases and regional preferences, usually does not say whether the candidiate is MD/PhD, does not address if the candidate has applied as an R2 or R3, etc etc). So while important, it is often overemphasized, esp among this top group of programs. What seems more important, at least to the people I’ve spoken to, is the reputation and rigor of the training program. This will carry you very far in the long run. And I’m told that someone who trained at Duke is looked at no differently than someone who trained at Penn or Columbia or UW – at least based on comments from my PD, chairman, and cards/GI fellowship director (the two fields I'm thinking about). What will differentiate these people is what unique or interesting things they did as a resident at these programs (i.e. life experience) and how they excelled as a resident. Anyway, just my n = 1.

great comments. keep 'em coming.

I'll chime in to continue the thread and also deciding the #2/3-5/6. I am interested in hearing from those who have any experience at either Columbia or Penn either as residents, students, or from away rotations to get a perspective on some of the less tangible aspects such as resident quality of life, how the hospital runs, teaching, any perspective, etc.
Also frustrated over match list interpretation--any thoughts for a cards-interested applicant (more on Columbia/Penn rather than UW/Duke/UCLA)?

I totally agree with the prior point that the PD at UW is great. However, I got a subtle hint that the residents still felt overworked. Perhaps it was just the day but there was not great attendance/participation at either morning report or noon conference. When the PD asked interns/residents to stick around to talk to the applicants none stayed. Due to the patient volume it sounded like rounds were primarily focused on getting through them as fast as possible. Basically no one seemed to be particularly jazzed about what they were doing.

Actually at both Penn and UW I kind of picked up on a sense of negativity. In contrast at Hopkins (similar workload Im assuming) the interns/residents seemed to get more teaching and were overall more positive about their time in the hospital. The huge caveat here is that I only saw these places as an applicant so anyone with better knowledge please feel free to tell me Im completely wrong.

If the location works for you, Id recommend ranking Duke highly. Of all the top programs Duke had the most humane call (24hr on, q5). They still retained the sign outs with the chief and the EBM reports were spectucular. Overall, the residents seemed to be pretty happy with Duke. As for cards, you cannt go wrong at Duke and Im sure youd be in great shape come time for fellowship.

Penn's match list last year was very successful. As an insider, I can tell you that ALL of the people who applied matched at one of their top two choices. It seems a lot of folks want a little more detail on the cardiology and GI match so I'll speak to that a little.

The cards match included 1 at Brigham, 1 at Hopkins, 2 at Stanford, 4 at Penn, 1 at Northwestern, 1 at Mt Sinai, 1 at Jefferson, 1 at Univ Colorado and 1 at Wash Hosp Center. Every one was VERY happy.

GI matched 2 at Penn, 2 at UCSF, 1 at Wash U, 1 at Tufts, 1 at UCLA and 1 at Jefferson. Everyone was VERY happy.

We also matched two for two in AI: MGH and Mount Sinai (both top choices); three in endocrine: UCSF, Penn, U Wash (all top choices); three in Heme/Onc (a little low historically): UCSF, Penn, Dana Farber (all top choices); three in Pulm/CC (a little low historically, two applicants deferred a year for chief residency): Duke, Yale, Boston U (top choices); five in ID: NYU, 3 at Penn, Johns Hopkins (i think 4/5 were top choices); three in renal: 2 at Penn, UCLA (all top choices); and two in rheum: Pen and U Texas at Houston (both top choices).

As a program, we were incredibly happy on match day (hilarious pictures to prove it). This year we have a ton of Heme/Onc applicants and continue to have anywhere between 10-15 cards. A couple GI applicants will be deferred until next year for chief years.

It is hard to judge a successful match. The most important aspect is whether or not people got to go where they wanted to go. Folks were overwhelmingly happy.

If you think about it, there aren't enough fellowship spots in cards at the Cleveland Clinic, MGH, BWH, Brigham, Stanford, UCSF, Columbia and Penn. There are amazing applicants at many different programs, more than there are slots at "top programs". Splitting hairs with different match lists can be a dangerous undertaking. I'd focus much more on the collegiality of the program, good clinical training, and a track record of getting applicants successfully matched where they want to be. Happiness should be weighed more than prestige.

Good luck to everyone. The most comforting thing to me when I applied was that there were a lot of good programs and I felt pretty comfortable choosing between them. In the end, you'll get great training. Gotta go where you think you'll flourish the most. Best of luck! Let me know if I can be of any help.

I'm not sure how you consider the patient population at columbia diverse - almost every patient I saw there (in medical school) was Dominican. Ancillary services were terrible, and translator availability was very poor - I waited almost an hour once in clinic to get a translator. Languages have never been my strong suit, so some people would do just fine with the need to speak spanish. From what I've heard services have improved slightly since I graduated in 2002.

As a current Duke resident I'll throw in my 2 cents about some things that weren't mentioned.

The diversity of our patient population and quality of our clinical training are about as good as it gets, yet for some reason often overlooked by applicants. People make unfair assumptions about Durham...it's actually an incredibly diverse place, with a good mix of African American, Latino, uninsured/underinsured, medicare/medicaid, horses/zebras, big-wigs/nobodies, and the like. And, we have NO private patients, the importance of which cannot be overemphasized (ask any intern who has to page 3 different private attendings daily and carry out his/her orders mindlessly and you'll realize why). Plus, our 3 hospital system helps round out the experience, with great subspecialty care at Duke and more bread-and-butter at the VA and Durham Regional. The Durham VA is arguably the best VA in the entire country in many aspects (there's some hard data for this even), and offers many unique training features that most top-tier programs without a VA can't match.

The affordability and high quality of life in Durham also aren't matched at any other top-tier program I've seen. If you want a big-city urban area then Durham's not for you, but if you want to actually be financially secure, comfortable, own a home, actually save some money, etc., then you should strongly consider Duke. Starting salary in July will probably be ~45k...easily enough to buy a great townhome here for $120-140k, or even a standalone house with a yard for $140-200k, within a 10 minute drive from campus.

Duke is a cardiology and clinical research powerhouse. Our fellowship match list this past year was perhaps the best ever. In cardiology we matched 3 at Cleveland Clinic, 3 at Duke, 1 at Texas Heart, 1 at Northwestern, etc. etc. This is also a phenomenal place to be for GI, heme/onc, pulmonary...just about anything you could imagine.

Our subspecialty service design makes it such that you actually round daily with the attending or fellow, so you end up learning cardiology from cardiologists, pulmonary from pulmonologists, etc. It's a really awesome structure for learning during the intern year.

I could go on, but those are some of the highlights that weren't already mentioned. I'm amazed on a daily basis at how brilliant, dedicated, friendly, and fun my co-residents are, and if I had to do it over again I'd choose Duke in a heartbeat.

As a current Columbia 4th year, I'd say that things have probably changed since 2002 (in reference to brc's post). I am not going to lie -- training at a NYC hospital is a unique experience, both in good ways and bad.

Ancillary services at Columbia are improving. Phlebotomy is good except for stat labs and you will always draw your own blood cultures as an intern. Transport has improved and I'd say the vast majority of the time, you only have to transport a patient in the ICU/CCU for whom having an MD accompany them is the rule. As for translator services, in the clinics, the residents that don't speak Spanish use the phone translator on speaker phone which works quite well. In the hospital, the translators are good and many of the nurses speak Spanish as well. I rarely saw my residents in dire need of translation services on the floor.

The majority of the patients are Dominican. If you'd like to have many patients from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds, you won't find that here but you definitely see different groups (Orthodox Jewish, west African, etc.) You are definitely working with a medically (and otherwise) underserved population. You will see many people who show up fresh from Santo Domingo (from the DR to the ER) with "no medical history" who turn out to have a Cr of 12 or something crazy.

As for the clinical training, I don't have experience with the other NY programs, but I think it's fantastic. The two attending system is really an asset to your education. The residents are very close and really depend on each other. I don't get the sense that the program administration is warm and fuzzy like at other programs (it's definitely not BWH in that regard!) but I think that the residents' issues and concerns are voiced and responded to. Looking at where the residents come from, you'll see that many Columbia students choose to stay, which I think says a lot in spite of the frustrations that working at Milstein can bring.