So lots of rank threads are popping up, so everyone use this thread to post your rank list or ask for advice about your rank list. I'll start, so how would you rank these for somebody set on cards:

1) Cornell
2) Mt. Sinai
3) Stanford
4) Ucla
5) Ucsd
6) UW
7) Emory
8) NYU
9) Colorado

So lots of rank threads are popping up, so everyone use this thread to post your rank list or ask for advice about your rank list. I'll start, so how would you rank these for somebody set on cards:




THIS IS TOTALLY MY SUBJECTIVE RANKING:

1) Stanford (better name/good weather/expensive)
2) Ucla (good name/awesome residency/nice weather/expensive/traffic)
3) Cornell (Good name/perceived good residency/awesome housing across the street)
4) Mt. Sinai (Good training)
5) UW (not sure about this program ... very good name/highly ranked but not so good cards match list)
6) Emory (hard core residency)
7) UCSD (nice place)
8) NYU (Don't take their own)
9) Colorado (no clue)

Here is my list in alphabetical order. I also have same question as dreamfox that how would you rank these for someone interested in cards:

1. Baylor- Houston
2. Duke
3. Harbor-UCLA
4. Mayo-Rochester
5. OHSU
6. Tulane
7. UC-Davis
8. UNC
9. UTSW
10. UW - Categorical
11. UW - Primary Care
12. WashU

Thanks.

11. UW - Primary Care

Thanks.

Why would this be on your list if you really want cards?

Mine:

University of Missouri Kansas City
Kansas University
University of Missouri Columbia

So lots of rank threads are popping up, so everyone use this thread to post your rank list or ask for advice about your rank list. I'll start, so how would you rank these for somebody set on cards:



i'll preface by saying the same as CanIMakeIt; this is my subjective ranking.

(1) Cornell - strong reputation, sent 21 people in cards in past 2 years, good match list, residents seem very cohesive (likely given the housing across the street), i also like nyc
(2) UCLA - good name, nice weather, i got the impression after interviewing that UCLA is a better training program than stanford and that i'd fit in better with the residents, maybe less bread and butter medicine but residents come out very strong clinically, you will be busy as any other place but there is very little scutwork
(3) Stanford - see above, i'm also not sold on the location
(4) Mt Sinai - good training program, reputation slight notch below cornell maybe
(5) UW - would be higher if interested in something other than cards
(6) Emory - strong cards program and some ppl might move this higher up due to their match list
(7) UCSD/NYC/Colorado - all about the same in my opinion

Why would this be on your list if you really want cards?

he/she may have simply applied to both tracks; i assume it would be a program much lower on the ROL...

Why would this be on your list if you really want cards?

Just b/c you are in a Primary Care Track doesn' t mean you can't sub-specialize. It just means your 3 years are slightly different than your categorical colleagues. ie. you prob have 1 or 2 more outpatient months than them. Maybe different lecture series too, geared for ambulatory medicine.

40% of the graduates of the Yale - Primary Care track go on to do Sub-specialty training.

Just b/c you are in a Primary Care Track doesn' t mean you can't sub-specialize. It just means your 3 years are slightly different than your categorical colleagues. ie. you prob have 1 or 2 more outpatient months than them. Maybe different lecture series too, geared for ambulatory medicine.

40% of the graduates of the Yale - Primary Care track go on to do Sub-specialty training.

yeah, i know that. But most of those people originally wanted to do primary care and then decided later to subspecialize. It just seems to make more sense to go with traditional IM if you want Cards (where more hospital and ICU months will help).

But you're right, at the end of the day an IM grad is an IM grad whether they went with a primary care track or not.

Okay, debating my top three: Brigham, MGH, and UCSF. My goal is (at the moment) to stay in general internal medicine and be a clinician-educator. I have applied to the primary care tracks at all three institutions.

In alphabetical order...
Brigham--I like "warm and fuzzy" as a principle. People seemed incredibly nice and willing to help each other out--trade a call weekend so someone could go to a friend's wedding, etc. I think these "little things" may make a big difference in something as hard as residency. Also, the teaching conferences and overall intellectual atmosphere seemed amazing.
But...I am worried that the patient population might not be as interesting and/or underserved as at the other two. I plan to do work with underserved in practice, but not sure how much I need of that in my three years or training. What seems most amazing is the support for individualized career paths here. Want to work at the WHO? Work with IHS? Do policy work? Hang with Paul Farmer? Done. But is all this icing on the cake? What about the rest of the clinical experience?
MGH--was initially worried that they do not have each other's backs and enjoy hard work for hard work's sake, rather than for learning purposes. However, went back for a second look and thought this might be a nice mix of some more underserved while still very academic. It might be exciting to be thrown into the mix with some more autonomy-with-a-safety-net structure. I also like the 24-hour call schedule, but is this a moot point because of IOM recommendations we'll all be doing 24-hour call anyway? Bigelow service is great, but it is not all of MGH--you are still at Ellison a bunch too.
UCSF--got a really great feeling during my day there. Really like that there are no private patients and the three-hospital system. However, also got a sense people here might be even more overworked than the other two programs. I love county hospital exposure but the paper charts, days to get a CT scan...worried that SFGH might prove to be a little demoralizing for training.

I know I can't go wrong, but anyone else having this debate?

yeah, i know that. But most of those people originally wanted to do primary care and then decided later to subspecialize. It just seems to make more sense to go with traditional IM if you want Cards (where more hospital and ICU months will help).

But you're right, at the end of the day an IM grad is an IM grad whether they went with a primary care track or not.

The reason I applied to both the tracks was because as per my conversation with PD/residents, Categorical vs PC is just a label for their convenience...you can pick and choose what you want for your elective months ... a categorical resident may do all the electives in ambulatory medicine and a PC resident can do all the ambulatory/electives in inpatient medicine. That is my understanding. And PC track will be lower on my ROL.

Also...anyone with thoughts on Brigham's DGM vs HVMA pcare programs?
Or UCSF's SFPC vs. UCPC pcare programs?

also lookin at doing cards. any advice on how to rank these places? thanks

boston university
cedars sinai
harbor-ucla
hopkins bayview
montefiore
rush
tufts
uic
usc
uva

The reason I applied to both the tracks was because as per my conversation with PD/residents, Categorical vs PC is just a label for their convenience...you can pick and choose what you want for your elective months ... a categorical resident may do all the electives in ambulatory medicine and a PC resident can do all the ambulatory/electives in inpatient medicine. That is my understanding. And PC track will be lower on my ROL.

That makes sense.

If it makes the UCSF vs. BWh vs. MGH thing any easier it seems that this is the choice the majority of the peeps were making in my program (UC) when it came to the top of the list. the truth is you will get awesome training in all of these places. why dont you guys decide whether you would prefer to be at Boston vs. SF. this really should be the question. family/friends/SOs/life outside of medicine. From there figure whether there are any particular professional areas which interest you most be it subspecialty training or curricular developments. as to the post about SFGH breaking you as a resident, I really dont think so. each of our spots has ups and downs but I am SO glad that when I get fed up/done with one hospital I am off to the next. change is good. at least for me.

bump

also lookin at doing cards. any advice on how to rank these places? thanks

boston university
cedars sinai
harbor-ucla
hopkins bayview
montefiore
rush
tufts
uic
usc
uva

Montefiore: I really liked this program. It's location isn't ideal but I got the sense that residents who trained there are basically trained for anything coming their way. With respect to training I think that Bellevue, Presbyterian and Montefiore are the three best programs in NYC. Unfortunetly the match list is not the strongest and their basic sience is definitely not as good as Columbia. I wish that Montefiore's reputation was more in line with the actual training they receive.

My rank list would probably look like this:
1. Hopkins Bayview
2. UVA
3. BU
4. Montefiore
5. Harbor-UCLA
6. Cedars Sinai

I'm couples-matching, so my list wouldn't probably look like this if it were just me. And we may change our mind between now and match day. That said...

1) Baylor
2) Duke
3) UNC
4) Baylor-Dallas
5) UTSW (Not really the place for me, but another option in D/FW)
6) Scott & White
7) Mayo (Would probably have put this higher, but not a great match for my wife)
8) UT-San Antonio
9) UT-Houston
10) Colorado (I loved it, but big, big probs w/ her prospective program)

Not to majorly thread-jack, but does anyone have any +/-'s on the Baylor program? I was initially concerned about institutional upheaval (discussed at length in threads throughout SDN if you're unfamiliar), but they really convinced me that it is a strong, stable program that will train you really well in a variety of settings, i.e.,
a) old people bread-and-butter at nation's largest VA
b) crazy indigent/immigrant end-stage disease at Ben Taub, along with what is quite likely the most intense ER experience a medicine resident is likely to get anywhere in the Ben Taub ER
c) fancy-schmancy tertiary/quaternary pvt-practice orgy-of-unnecessary-spending "standard of care" at St. Luke's (+Texas Heart)
Plus there's just something inspiring about the Texas Med Center.

Anyone else strongly considering BCM?

Really looking for some help ranking these programs. Interested in subspecialty training, possibly heme/onc or Critical care.

UMinn
Ohio State
Robert Wood
Utah
Dartmouth
UMass
Arizona

Just looking for general impressions and suggestions. Thanks.

Among those programs, I think Ohio State stands out slightly more than the others. You would definitely get a lot of exposure to Heme/Onc and all the subspecialties in general.

Looking to do Hem/Onc, and I'm especially struggling with the Mayo vs. Wash U vs. Michigan decision. I believe BIDMC is my front-runner, however. Any input would be greatly appreciated...
1) BIDMC
2) Mayo-Rochester (just got a really great gut feeling from here. I'm originally from a small, midwest town so although Rochester is not ideal, it would be tolerable)
3) Wash U
4) Michigan
5) Yale
6) Colorado

Thanks everyone! I'll take all the help I can get...:)

Baylor
Drexel
U Minn
Wayne State
UConn
MGH
U Arizona

1. MGH.
2. JHH.
3. Cornell.
4. University of Rochester.
5. Vanderbilt.
6. University of Maryland.
7. Yale.
8. Emory.
9. Dartmouth.
10. BIDMC.


1-4 are very fluid right now, though.

That's kind of an odd list, particularly your 5-10...any particular reason you have BIDMC so low? I love UMaryland as much as the next guy, but we are talking a Harvard hospital with great morale here...

This is in no particular order. Not looking to subspecialize right now, but want to keep the doors open for fellowships if I choose to later on. Would like some research opps, but nothing super-academic (it's just not me). Just want a balance program with strong training and happy residents.

Cedars-Sinai
Habor UCLA
Olive View UCLA
Kaiser Sunset
UCI
UCD
Cal Pacific
Huntington
UCSD
USC

That's kind of an odd list, particularly your 5-10...any particular reason you have BIDMC so low? I love UMaryland as much as the next guy, but we are talking a Harvard hospital with great morale here...
Thanks.....I think. BIDMC is a great place with wonderful, wonderful people.....but it's not for me. I want to be pushed harder than I feel they will push and there are far too many private patients there. I don't give a hoot about prestige or a 'coveted brand name' and, if you're using that as a major selection tool for the ROL, it's utterly foolish in my opinion. UMD is a tough program with amazing substrate in a diverse city. The program has huge success in creating all-rounders, and their fellowship match stats are impressive. On top of that, they have one of the best VA hospitals out there, and I like the VA environment.

Thanks.....I think. BIDMC is a great place with wonderful, wonderful people.....but it's not for me. I want to be pushed harder than I feel they will push and there are far too many private patients there. I don't give a hoot about prestige or a 'coveted brand name' and, if you're using that as a major selection tool for the ROL, it's utterly foolish in my opinion. UMD is a tough program with amazing substrate in a diverse city. The program has huge success in creating all-rounders, and their fellowship match stats are impressive. On top of that, they have one of the best VA hospitals out there, and I like the VA environment.

at cornell, i believe you have private patients (i.e. check in with multiple attendings occasionally). the residents at cornell and BID seemed okay with it, for the most part.

at cornell, i believe you have private patients (i.e. check in with multiple attendings occasionally). the residents at cornell and BID seemed okay with it, for the most part.
I know, but it's a different set-up at Cornell, and I have additional reasons for ranking it higher.

I don't give a hoot about prestige or a 'coveted brand name' and, if you're using that as a major selection tool for the ROL, it's utterly foolish in my opinion.

Amen brother.

agreed, although it somewhat funny to read someone talking against coveted named programs while their top two ranks are arguably the top two brand names in the country. not that they aren't great, of course

Having trouble deciding how to rank these..any opinions would be appreciated. Planning on fellowship in GI. Thanks!

Mayo (Rochester)
UTSW
Emory
UCSD
Vanderbilt
UNC
Pitt

really need help with ranking these programs. wanting to do GI. in no particular order,

emory
UNC
WashU
Uni Ill Chicago
Baylor Dallas
UTSW
UTHSCSA
Baylor Houston
UT Houston

Having trouble deciding how to rank these..any opinions would be appreciated. Planning on fellowship in GI. Thanks!

Mayo (Rochester)
UTSW
Emory
UCSD
Vanderbilt
UNC
Pitt

all good choices, but here's what i would go with:
1) Mayo
2) Vandy
3) UTSW
4) UCSD
5) UNC

don't know anythign about pitt.

How would you rank these if you didnt care about GI Cards fellowship match rates. Just want a place with good clinical training, friendly people, Good education, decent location etc. Havent decided about fellowships but likely not GI or Cards, but eventually want to do academics.

UTSW
Baylor Houston
UNC
Univ of Washington
Pitt
Northwestern
U of Michigan
Case Western
Mayo Rochester

How would you rank these if you didnt care about GI Cards fellowship match rates. Just want a place with good clinical training, friendly people, Good education, decent location etc. Havent decided about fellowships but likely not GI or Cards, but eventually want to do academics.
This is how I would rank them according to my perceived reputation for academic competitiveness .... can't comment on location as that is totally a personal preference (I hate too cold places) :

Univ Washington
Michigan
UTSW = Baylor Houston
Northwestern = Pitt = UNC
Case Western = Mayo Rochester

Just for clarification, is montfiore that I see pop up in many lists is that the UPMC main program?

Montefiore is Albert Einstein College of Medicine. Univ of Pittsburgh is UPMC

1. Gunderson Lutheran (La Crosse)
2. University of Iowa (Iowa City)
3. Abbott-Northwestern (Minneapolis)
4. UNMC (Omaha)
5. Des Moines


I come from a rural area of the midwest and decided that I wanted a program that was more community-based and close to home, because out of the programs that I've rotated with, it's obvious, in my opinion, that community-based programs allow the most autonomy and give you the most chances to do procedures while allowing for significant attending/resident interactions.

At least, that's what I've noted. Plus, I'm interested in doing ID/Critical Care and ID isn't exactly competitive right now.

Here's my current list, anyone want to give their opinions? I'm interested in cardio for now. I don't really care about the location all that much, just a nice program to be at that doesn't feel abusive and gives me the ability to match into a fellowship. Thanks!

Vanderbilt
Wash U
Michigan
Mayo
Baylor Houston
UTSW
UCSD
UPMC
UC Davis
UVa
Case
Cleveland Clinic

Here's my current list, anyone want to give their opinions? I'm interested in cardio for now. I don't really care about the location all that much, just a nice program to be at that doesn't feel abusive and gives me the ability to match into a fellowship. Thanks!

Vanderbilt
Wash U
Michigan
Mayo
Baylor Houston
UTSW
UCSD
UPMC
UC Davis
UVa
Case
Cleveland Clinic

without knowing anything else about what you're looking for, i'd say:

michigan = washU
vandy = mayo = utsw (all very different programs btw)
uva = baylor = ucsd = upmc (honestly, dont know enough about these)
case = cc = uc davis

several of these programs are not abusive, and fellowship potential is nearly equal for the top 4 or 5 on this list.

without knowing anything else about what you're looking for, i'd say:

michigan = washU
vandy = mayo = utsw (all very different programs btw)
uva = baylor = ucsd = upmc (honestly, dont know enough about these)
case = cc = uc davis

several of these programs are not abusive, and fellowship potential is nearly equal for the top 4 or 5 on this list.


Thanks for the input. I agree about the UTSW vs mayo comparison--completely opposite ends of the spectrum with regard to their intensity. I like Dallas, but after running into a lot of UTSW students on the interview trail and getting their opinions, I'm less certain I'll be ranking it as highly as I initially thought I would.

Here's my current list, anyone want to give their opinions? I'm interested in cardio for now. I don't really care about the location all that much, just a nice program to be at that doesn't feel abusive and gives me the ability to match into a fellowship. Thanks!

Vanderbilt
Wash U
Michigan
Mayo
Baylor Houston
UTSW
UCSD
UPMC
UC Davis
UVa
Case
Cleveland Clinic

michigan = wash u = utsw
vandy = ucsd = uva
baylor = case = pitt
mayo
>>> cleveland clinic

really need help with ranking these programs. wanting to do GI. in no particular order,

emory
UNC
WashU
Uni Ill Chicago
Baylor Dallas
UTSW
UTHSCSA
Baylor Houston
UT Houston

utsw = wash u
emory

don't know about others

This is in no particular order. Not looking to subspecialize right now, but want to keep the doors open for fellowships if I choose to later on. Would like some research opps, but nothing super-academic (it's just not me). Just want a balance program with strong training and happy residents.

Cedars-Sinai
Habor UCLA
Olive View UCLA
Kaiser Sunset
UCI
UCD
Cal Pacific
Huntington
UCSD
USC

ucsd
harbor-ucla
uc-davis
cedars

Baylor
Drexel
U Minn
Wayne State
UConn
MGH
U Arizona

mgh- come on, it's harvard. you can't lose
minnesota- great bmt program

Having trouble deciding how to rank these..any opinions would be appreciated. Planning on fellowship in GI. Thanks!

Mayo (Rochester)
UTSW
Emory
UCSD
Vanderbilt
UNC
Pitt

utsw
ucsd
emory
vandy

Looking to do Hem/Onc, and I'm especially struggling with the Mayo vs. Wash U vs. Michigan decision. I believe BIDMC is my front-runner, however. Any input would be greatly appreciated...
1) BIDMC
2) Mayo-Rochester (just got a really great gut feeling from here. I'm originally from a small, midwest town so although Rochester is not ideal, it would be tolerable)
3) Wash U
4) Michigan
5) Yale
6) Colorado

Thanks everyone! I'll take all the help I can get...:)

wash u = michigan = bid
colorado
yale
mayo- but if you think you would be really happy in that program, you should go there. the program you match at will own your life for the next three years. plus you might end up staying for fellowship.

Really looking for some help ranking these programs. Interested in subspecialty training, possibly heme/onc or Critical care.

UMinn
Ohio State
Robert Wood
Utah
Dartmouth
UMass
Arizona

Just looking for general impressions and suggestions. Thanks.

minnesota- great bmt program
ohio state- i have heard they have a strong onc fellowship
utah

Okay, debating my top three: Brigham, MGH, and UCSF. My goal is (at the moment) to stay in general internal medicine and be a clinician-educator. I have applied to the primary care tracks at all three institutions.

In alphabetical order...
Brigham--I like "warm and fuzzy" as a principle. People seemed incredibly nice and willing to help each other out--trade a call weekend so someone could go to a friend's wedding, etc. I think these "little things" may make a big difference in something as hard as residency. Also, the teaching conferences and overall intellectual atmosphere seemed amazing.
But...I am worried that the patient population might not be as interesting and/or underserved as at the other two. I plan to do work with underserved in practice, but not sure how much I need of that in my three years or training. What seems most amazing is the support for individualized career paths here. Want to work at the WHO? Work with IHS? Do policy work? Hang with Paul Farmer? Done. But is all this icing on the cake? What about the rest of the clinical experience?
MGH--was initially worried that they do not have each other's backs and enjoy hard work for hard work's sake, rather than for learning purposes. However, went back for a second look and thought this might be a nice mix of some more underserved while still very academic. It might be exciting to be thrown into the mix with some more autonomy-with-a-safety-net structure. I also like the 24-hour call schedule, but is this a moot point because of IOM recommendations we'll all be doing 24-hour call anyway? Bigelow service is great, but it is not all of MGH--you are still at Ellison a bunch too.
UCSF--got a really great feeling during my day there. Really like that there are no private patients and the three-hospital system. However, also got a sense people here might be even more overworked than the other two programs. I love county hospital exposure but the paper charts, days to get a CT scan...worried that SFGH might prove to be a little demoralizing for training.

I know I can't go wrong, but anyone else having this debate?


you won't go wrong with any of the harvard programs :rolleyes:

Here is my list in alphabetical order. I also have same question as dreamfox that how would you rank these for someone interested in cards:

1. Baylor- Houston
2. Duke
3. Harbor-UCLA
4. Mayo-Rochester
5. OHSU
6. Tulane
7. UC-Davis
8. UNC
9. UTSW
10. UW - Categorical
11. UW - Primary Care
12. WashU

Thanks.

uw = wash u = duke = utsw
ohsu
harbor-ucla
mayo

So lots of rank threads are popping up, so everyone use this thread to post your rank list or ask for advice about your rank list. I'll start, so how would you rank these for somebody set on cards:

1) Cornell
2) Mt. Sinai
3) Stanford
4) Ucla
5) Ucsd
6) UW
7) Emory
8) NYU
9) Colorado


uw
ucla = ucsd = stanford
emory = cornell = colorado
nyu
mt sinai

uw
ucla = ucsd = stanford
emory = cornell = colorado
nyu
mt sinai


For cardiology --> Stanford then everything else to be sorted out afterwards

For cardiology --> Stanford then everything else to be sorted out afterwards


Emory is an excellent choice for cardiology. The clinical exposure/training there is excellent. Their research is great and their match list for cards is ridiculous. I actually think that it's the best place on your list (for cards)

Hi
What about GWU(George Washington University in DC) for IM residency.
any remarks are appreciated ,how is the program for Cardio...i have No rank list Cuz i am already in,,,:)

Hi, here's my current list. I'm interested in heme/onc. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

1) Georgetown U
2) Tufts
3) Boston U
4) George Washington U
5) Penn State
6) Washington hospital center

Deciding... interested in H/O as well

JHU-Bayview
Mt. Sinai
Upenn
(these are prob fixed)
----------
Montefiore
UChicago (may bump down, unsure if I want to move away from east coast)
Vanderbilt (same as above)
Temple
Tufts
UMass
Jefferson
Dartmouth
Maryland

1. NYU
2. Brown
3. Yale-PC
4. UVA
5. U. Mich
6. Einstein-Monte

Deciding... interested in H/O as well

JHU-Bayview
Mt. Sinai
Upenn
(these are prob fixed)
----------
Montefiore
UChicago (may bump down, unsure if I want to move away from east coast)
Vanderbilt (same as above)
Temple
Tufts
UMass
BU
Jefferson
Dartmouth
Maryland

Is there a reason for UPenn to be after JHU-Bayview and Mt Sinai? I would think UPenn = Vanderbilt = UChicago as far as reputation goes....

Is there a reason for UPenn to be after JHU-Bayview and Mt Sinai? I would think UPenn = Vanderbilt = UChicago as far as reputation goes....

Not everyone ranks based on reputation/prestige. He might be ranking based on where he feels he is the best fit, which is what everyone should be doing.

Not everyone ranks based on reputation/prestige. He might be ranking based on where he feels he is the best fit, which is what everyone should be doing.

That's why I asked HIM/HER if there was a reason for doing that, didn't I?:rolleyes:

That's why I asked HIM/HER if there was a reason for doing that, didn't I?:rolleyes:

But you qualified the question with, "i would think......blah blah... based on REPUTATION..." :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Montefiore: I really liked this program. It's location isn't ideal but I got the sense that residents who trained there are basically trained for anything coming their way. With respect to training I think that Bellevue, Presbyterian and Montefiore are the three best programs in NYC. Unfortunetly the match list is not the strongest and their basic sience is definitely not as good as Columbia. I wish that Montefiore's reputation was more in line with the actual training they receive.

My rank list would probably look like this:
1. Hopkins Bayview
2. UVA
3. BU
4. Montefiore
5. Harbor-UCLA
6. Cedars Sinai

Thanks for your opinion! But I was wondering... I thought Tufts was fairly similar to BU in terms of fellowship (although I admit the training style is different). I'm curious why you didn't include it?

But you qualified the question with, "i would think......blah blah... based on REPUTATION..." :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well I have to agree that you rolling eyes three times makes more sense than mine only one....darn you foreign body....you beat me ....

Well the use of "I" was supposed to show that my subjective ranking would be in this order and thats why I put my question to see what OP's reasoning was for his ranking, before I gave MY opinion....

peace

Please help me rank, interested in Cards, but also in general quality of the program

Columbia
MT Sinai
Cornell
NYU
BIDMC
UChicago
UCLA
YALE

That's why I asked HIM/HER if there was a reason for doing that, didn't I?:rolleyes:

JHU-B and Mt. Sinai were better fits -- true. Felt it was more cohesive, had better teaching. Upenn is still #3 because of fellowship match and it's close to home.

Prob won't rank BU because I've heard it's malignant. Tufts and esp Umass seemed to have very happy cohesive residents and UMass in particular has great teachers and is forward thinking. But it's in Worcester...

Interested in Heme/Onc (not Cards or GI ;-)
How would you rank?

Mayo Rochester
Cornell
Yale
BU
UMinnesota
UMaryland

Thx!

Interested in Heme/Onc (not Cards or GI ;-)
How would you rank?

Mayo Rochester
Cornell
Yale
BU
UMinnesota
UMaryland

Thx!

I think for H/O, I would put:

1. Cornell (2/2 assn with Memorial Sloan-Kettering)
2. Mayo

don't know much about rest ... but just on name rec., I would go with
Yale > UMary > UMin > BU

I guess how you felt at these programs would also be taken into consideration and that would be your personal decision.

There's a lot of undervaluing Yale on this board. Sure its not as great as the elite institutions such as bwh/mgh/columbia/hopkins/ucsf/penn but it definitely is in the next class of programs in terms of reputation and also in terms of selectivity. Certainly more prestigious than Mayo and >= to Cornell in the above example.

There's a lot of undervaluing Yale on this board. Sure its not as great as the elite institutions such as bwh/mgh/columbia/hopkins/ucsf/penn but it definitely is in the next class of programs in terms of reputation and also in terms of selectivity. Certainly more prestigious than Mayo and >= to Cornell in the above example.

Very possible. I don't know ANYTHING about Yale hence I ranked it top of my unknowns list. Probably the reputation suffers due to lack of participation by Yale people on this forum. Hopefully more of them can chime in with an opinion about Yale. But AFA H/O goes, I will put Cornell above Yale simply due to Cornell's association with Memorial Sloan-Kettering.

Very possible. I don't know ANYTHING about Yale hence I ranked it top of my unknowns list. Probably the reputation suffers due to lack of participation by Yale people on this forum. Hopefully more of them can chime in with an opinion about Yale. But AFA H/O goes, I will put Cornell above Yale simply due to Cornell's association with Memorial Sloan-Kettering.

I would agree with Cornell > Yale > Mayo with Heme/Onc. The nice thing with these is that they are all so very different. Mayo is a program I would choose specifically because you want to work in their environment. I would rank it above BU, Minnesota, and Maryland if you're concerned about where you end up for fellowship.

These are the programs I'm currently considering

UPitt
Mayo
UCSD
Brown
Montefiore
U Maryland

What about a list for geriatrics/primary care?

Johns Hopkins Bayview
Emory
UTSW
Rush
Wake Forest
UT Memphis
Tulane
UT Houston

Deciding... interested in H/O as well

JHU-Bayview
Mt. Sinai
Upenn
(these are prob fixed)
----------
Montefiore
UChicago (may bump down, unsure if I want to move away from east coast)
Vanderbilt (same as above)
Temple
Tufts
UMass
Jefferson
Dartmouth
Maryland


I don't really know anything about heme/onc at any of your programs except for Bayview. I distinctly remember the residents at Bayview saying they thought their program's only weakness was heme/onc. It seemed like a really great place, but after their warnings I'm wondering why it's cemented as your number one for heme/onc?

What about a list for geriatrics/primary care?

Johns Hopkins Bayview
Emory
UTSW
Rush
Wake Forest
UT Memphis
Tulane
UT Houston

UTSW would be towards the bottom of your list for primary care. Multiple residents have explicitly said, "Do not come here if you're interested in primary care. We train sub-specialists and hospitalists." For me, that was a plus. For you, not so much. Emory struck me as a cardiology-focused program, although maybe they would have more emphasis on primary care than UTSW. Don't know about the rest. Good luck with your ROL!

UTSW would be towards the bottom of your list for primary care. Multiple residents have explicitly said, "Do not come here if you're interested in primary care. We train sub-specialists and hospitalists." For me, that was a plus. For you, not so much. Emory struck me as a cardiology-focused program, although maybe they would have more emphasis on primary care than UTSW. Don't know about the rest. Good luck with your ROL!


Thanks! Would opinions change if I added I wanted to stay in academic geriatrics/primary care?

Please help me rank, interested in Cards, but also in general quality of the program

Columbia
MT Sinai
Cornell
NYU
BIDMC
UChicago
UCLA
YALE

I'm having trouble with some of the same programs on your list. Also interested in cards. But in terms of what I consider to be overall quality ( = happiness, fellowship placement, and academics), here are my thoughts:

BIDMC
UCLA > Columbia
Cornell
Sinai
Yale > U Chicago (didn't visit yale, but didn't get good vibe from chicago)
NYU

It's such a personal choice, but I think any of these programs would provide you with excellent training.

UTSW would be towards the bottom of your list for primary care. Multiple residents have explicitly said, "Do not come here if you're interested in primary care. We train sub-specialists and hospitalists." For me, that was a plus. For you, not so much. Emory struck me as a cardiology-focused program, although maybe they would have more emphasis on primary care than UTSW. Don't know about the rest. Good luck with your ROL!

While Emory is a cardiology-focused program, geriatrics happens to be another gem of the Department of Medicine. Emory's Wesley Woods Center is a geriatrics complex just down the street from Emory Hospital that houses a 100-bed geriatrics hospital, assistant living facilities, SNF, subacute rehab, retirement housing, plus it also has connections to several local independent living facilities. The infrastructure is definitely there for those interested in geriatrics. In my experience, few top programs have this kind of dedicated geriatrics focus.

What about a list for geriatrics/primary care?

Johns Hopkins Bayview
Emory
UTSW
Rush
Wake Forest
UT Memphis
Tulane
UT Houston


I went to UT-Memphis. It's last on that list except maybe UT-Houston, which I know nothing about

Thanks! Would opinions change if I added I wanted to stay in academic geriatrics/primary care?

Re UTSW, I think my opinion would still be similar to one given above. It is a place you want to go to if you want hospitalist/sub-spec training. If you look at the curriculum, they have 6 ICU months, similar or more number of sub-spec months, and their outpatient training was certainly less than that.

Emory certainly sounds like a place you would want to rank #1, in case you change your mind about geriatrics/PC, you will still be at a solid program for anything you choose. That would be my thinking.

Tulane was also sounded like a program that gives you a lot of electives upfront so that you can make better sub-spec choices down the road and they certainly still have charity hospital (though not in the original 1 billion bed mega hospital).

I went to UT-Memphis. It's last on that list except maybe UT-Houston, which I know nothing about

What about UT-Memphis would make you put it last on the list?

Had to chime in to say that Yale is an underrated program. Our match list for cards last year was pretty good (places like Columbia, UCLA, Mt Sinai...I'm not interested in cards so I don't know how they rate but seem prestigious enough). Everyone who applied for cardiology matched...and within their top 3, I believe.

Please help me rank, interested in Cards, but also in general quality of the program

Columbia
MT Sinai
Cornell
NYU
BIDMC
UChicago
UCLA
YALE

columbia
ucla
bid
cornell
uchicago
yale
nyu
mt sinai

Okay, that's a new one: thinking about Pulm/CC (with emphasis on CC). How would you rank?

Brigham
University of Indiana
Mayo Roch
NYU
Cornell
Yale Traditional
Tulane

Okay, that's a new one: thinking about Pulm/CC (with emphasis on CC). How would you rank?

Brigham
University of Indiana
Mayo Roch
NYU
Cornell
Yale Traditional
Tulane

The only thing that I can say is that if you want to do CC then you want to go to a hands on program that will let you do tons of procedures and you will have Chance to go thru lot of ICU/CCU months. I know you will get a lots of hands-on at NYU but I am not sure about the rest of them..maybe also at Tulane but they are still building their program back s/p Katrina. Mayo might be a good place to match for fellowship but as even their current residents point out, not too many procedures are done by them...Cornell might be another one of those hand-on ones ... Yale .. not much is known about this program since none of their people seem to be on SDN or don't want to participate .... so i would rank them (i did not interview at most of the programs, so this is just my perception at work thru hearsay and here at SDN)

BWH > NYU = cornell > Yale = Indiana > Tulane = Mayo

Here is my ROL. Want to go into GI, location not too important. 1-3 pretty set, 4-11 change daily. Any input appreciated.
1. U Mich
2. Mayo- Rochester
3. UPMC
4. USC
5. BUMC
6. Brown
7. UCI
8. Dartmouth
9. U Rochester
10. Loma Linda
11. U of Arizona

Hello all! I was wondering if someone could offer some advice to me. I am interested in pursuing GI OR heme/onc fellowship after residency (leaning more towards heme/onc right now).

Below is listed all of the programs I plan to rank. I enjoyed many of these programs very much so I am having a difficult time ranking them. I want a program that has good GI and heme/onc programs but also match well outside their program in case I want to leave (due to life's many changes :rolleyes: ). I appreciate all of your help!!! :D

(In alphabetical order...)

Mayo (Jacksonville)
Medical University of South Carolina
Temple University (Philly)
UAB Birmingham, AL
University of Cincinnati
UPMC (Pitt)
UVa
UT Houston
UT Memphis
Wake Forest

Mayo (Jacksonville)
Medical University of South Carolina
Temple University (Philly)
UAB Birmingham, AL
University of Cincinnati
UPMC (Pitt)
UVa
UT Houston
UT Memphis
Wake Forest

UAB
UVa
Pitt
MUSC/ Wake
Cincy/ Houston/ Mayo Jacksonville/ Memphis/ Temple

im tryin to figure out what i want but if i were to ask you to rank these programs based entirely on a future internist's plan, how would you rank them? i live in southern california and would like to stay here but i think im open to any of the programs. i DO have a fear about usc's program. any word on that program as well?

here are my progs:

highland hospital (alameda county)
usc
loma linda
kaiser santa clara
ucsf fresno
kern bakersfield
san joaquin general hospital
st. mary's san francisco
maricopa (arizona)
unlv (nevada)

(In alphabetical order...)

Mayo (Jacksonville)
Medical University of South Carolina
Temple University (Philly)
UAB Birmingham, AL
University of Cincinnati
UPMC (Pitt)
UVa
UT Houston
UT Memphis
Wake Forest

UAB
UVa
Pitt
UT Houston = Wake = MUSC
then the rest

highland hospital (alameda county)
usc
loma linda
kaiser santa clara
ucsf fresno
kern bakersfield
san joaquin general hospital
st. mary's san francisco
maricopa (arizona)
unlv (nevada)

I would put them
USC (it is going to be a rough intern year but I think USC is still the strongest of the programs you have listed)
UCSF Fresno (affiliatd to UCSF)
Loma Linda (I personally did not have a good day there but since you want to stay in socal, I will rank it since it is still univ based)
UNLV (as per UNLV student I met, she would not stay there for her IM residency but I don't know anything about this program)
Kaiser

then the rest of them ....

u r MD/PhD student, you will get your first pick and also why didn't you apply to san diego programs? I have heard UCSD loves research people (again I don't know how true that is ... it is what I heard)

Here is my ROL. Want to go into GI, location not too important. 1-3 pretty set, 4-11 change daily. Any input appreciated.
1. U Mich
2. Mayo- Rochester
3. UPMC
4. USC
5. BUMC
6. Brown
7. UCI
8. Dartmouth
9. U Rochester
10. Loma Linda
11. U of Arizona

Most US students will get their topr 3 choice in IM, so IMHO you are can't go wrong with your top 3.

Good Luck

I would put them
USC (it is going to be a rough intern year but I think USC is still the strongest of the programs you have listed)
UCSF Fresno (affiliatd to UCSF)
Loma Linda (I personally did not have a good day there but since you want to stay in socal, I will rank it since it is still univ based)
UNLV (as per UNLV student I met, she would not stay there for her IM residency but I don't know anything about this program)
Kaiser

then the rest of them ....

u r MD/PhD student, you will get your first pick and also why didn't you apply to san diego programs? I have heard UCSD loves research people (again I don't know how true that is ... it is what I heard)

thanks UNC. im actually a graduate. not an MD/PhD student. i didnt make my profile, a friend of mine did. eh. i graduated from med school last march and am a US-IMG. so....while i DO have research and two publications in orthopedics journals in California, it's kinda useless for medicine i guess. anyway, thanks for your input, dude. appreciate it. i think im really jus **** scared about usc and their chaos. otherwise i really like the location and even the concept of learnin so much, bein that its county. im surprised you put ucsf-fresno at number 2 since i hadnt even thought of it like that. it's def a good program but i was thinkin 4 or 5. but thanks! my mom actually has ALS and lives here in southern california (im here with her and my dad and bro n sis-in-law). so its more for personal reasons that im picking loma linda / usc over other places. otherwise, i think i actually LIKED kaiser santa clara the best :o/ but...priorities change with family.

thanks UNC. im actually a graduate. not an MD/PhD student. i didnt make my profile, a friend of mine did. eh. i graduated from med school last march and am a US-IMG. so....while i DO have research and two publications in orthopedics journals in California, it's kinda useless for medicine i guess. anyway, thanks for your input, dude. appreciate it. i think im really jus **** scared about usc and their chaos. otherwise i really like the location and even the concept of learnin so much, bein that its county. im surprised you put ucsf-fresno at number 2 since i hadnt even thought of it like that. it's def a good program but i was thinkin 4 or 5. but thanks! my mom actually has ALS and lives here in southern california (im here with her and my dad and bro n sis-in-law). so its more for personal reasons that im picking loma linda / usc over other places. otherwise, i think i actually LIKED kaiser santa clara the best :o/ but...priorities change with family.

I am sorry to hear about your situation. In that case I will put
1. USC (as u mentioned ... be prepared to work hard though ... and from what I gather, there is not too much teaching going on ... but you will do so much on your own that by the end of 3 yrs you will be able to take care of anything) ABIM pass rate --> 91%
2. Loma Linda (I think I just had a bad day there ... did not get a very good sense that I would fit there...plus three people in one room even in MICU didn't seem right to me ... very minor things... nothing to do with how well they are taught things ... was not really impressed by the residents i rounded with .. again could be sampling bias .... PD seemed really nice and supportive though and so were the interviewers .... I can't put my finger on it what it was that bothered me so much but it just didn't feel right to me) -- ABIM --> 85%
3. UCSF - fresno --> seems like a decent program ... affiliation to UCSF (how that translates into fellowships afterwards is not clear from their website .. data missing after 2003) ABIM --> 92%
4. unlv (nevada) --> 93%
5. Kaiser is good but the only concern would be fellowships (if you don't get one of the few internal spots, it would be a little tougher to match outside compared to Univ-based programs ... or atleast that is what I have gathered so far) -- ABIM ---> 91%

highland hospital (alameda county) --> 85%
kern bakersfield --> 95%
san joaquin general hospital --> 82%
st. mary's san francisco --> 89%
maricopa (arizona) --> 91%


Good Luck :luck::luck::luck:

I would be happy to respond to any questions about Yale Traditional IM program. You can message me privately if you would like. Regarding the question about heme/onc: Yale is in the process of finishing completion of 14-story, 497,000 square-foot Smilow Cancer Center, which is adjoining the main hospital. Needless to say, within the heme/onc program both the academic and clinical areas are expanding rapidly.

There is a push to recruit applicants who have an interest in research, heme/onc, but as well as others, and to setup these individuals with "fast-track" positions. In this year's intern class, fast-track positions have been offered in heme/onc, cardiology, and two other sub-specialities.

Even if you do not have a significant background in research, but would like to pursue this for education or fellowship-match purposes, the other option involves the "Research in residency (RIR)" program, which pairs interns with a research mentor of choice and provides 3 months total of dedicated research time. And if research is not your thing, and you plan on 'hospitalizing' or going into primary care...we have a fair number of these individuals as well. There is also an international health elective (IHC), and many residents do RIR and IHC...4-5 months of time for research/IHC during your 3 years is very nice.

We work hard at Yale, no doubt, but the "easy" months are wonderfully relaxing. The GOOD: Interns are well cared for, good mix of single and married that go out frequently, residents keep you motivated, chiefs are amazing at teaching/accommodating schedule changes, attendings are surprisingly approachable, tradition/history of the program, PD has your back and fellowship match has always been strong.

Downsides: not a big city (but NY/Boston/airport close by), not a "cush" program (but then you probably shouldn't have done medicine), not a sunny destination (go vacation in the Bahamas with ur 4 weeks off), q4 call (typical for most large programs), not entirely nightfloat (NF at the VA, so half the time), and not enough compensation (just kidding, we get paid 90th percentile + holiday bonus + solid benefits).

Here is my ROL. Want to go into GI, location not too important. 1-3 pretty set, 4-11 change daily. Any input appreciated.
1. U Mich
2. Mayo- Rochester
3. UPMC
4. USC
5. BUMC
6. Brown
7. UCI
8. Dartmouth
9. U Rochester
10. Loma Linda
11. U of Arizona
would probably put usc lower, u rochester higher

Greeting everyone. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on my preliminary rank list. Especially any insights pro/con on the programs I have higher up.

I think I'm pretty set on my #1 choice of Hopkins, but after that I'm really conflicted. My choices are all over the place geographically and in terms of perceived reputation. I'm interested in Cardiology in the future but also considering general internal medicine (I'm interested in Public Health/Health Policy issues). I've sort of been forced to be geographically open since my better quality choices aren't in the best cities (I didn't get interviews at the heavy hitters in Cali/NY/Boston!) so program quality/impact on career prospects are my main criteria.

Cheers!

Johns Hopkins Hospital
Wash U
Emory
Vanderbilt
Pittsburgh
Boston Univ
Univ. of North Carolina
Case Western -Univ Hospital
Albert Einstein -Montefiore
Thomas Jefferson
Cedars-Sinai
Temple
Tufts
USC
Cleveland Clinic

I am sorry to hear about your situation. In that case I will put
1. USC (as u mentioned ... be prepared to work hard though ... and from what I gather, there is not too much teaching going on ... but you will do so much on your own that by the end of 3 yrs you will be able to take care of anything) ABIM pass rate --> 91%
2. Loma Linda (I think I just had a bad day there ... did not get a very good sense that I would fit there...plus three people in one room even in MICU didn't seem right to me ... very minor things... nothing to do with how well they are taught things ... was not really impressed by the residents i rounded with .. again could be sampling bias .... PD seemed really nice and supportive though and so were the interviewers .... I can't put my finger on it what it was that bothered me so much but it just didn't feel right to me) -- ABIM --> 85%
3. UCSF - fresno --> seems like a decent program ... affiliation to UCSF (how that translates into fellowships afterwards is not clear from their website .. data missing after 2003) ABIM --> 92%
4. unlv (nevada) --> 93%
5. Kaiser is good but the only concern would be fellowships (if you don't get one of the few internal spots, it would be a little tougher to match outside compared to Univ-based programs ... or atleast that is what I have gathered so far) -- ABIM ---> 91%

highland hospital (alameda county) --> 85%
kern bakersfield --> 95%
san joaquin general hospital --> 82%
st. mary's san francisco --> 89%
maricopa (arizona) --> 91%


Good Luck :luck::luck::luck:


THANKS SO MUCH! :o) good luck with everything!

Greeting everyone. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on my preliminary rank list. Especially any insights pro/con on the programs I have higher up.

I think I'm pretty set on my #1 choice of Hopkins, but after that I'm really conflicted. My choices are all over the place geographically and in terms of perceived reputation. I'm interested in Cardiology in the future but also considering general internal medicine (I'm interested in Public Health/Health Policy issues). I've sort of been forced to be geographically open since my better quality choices aren't in the best cities (I didn't get interviews at the heavy hitters in Cali/NY/Boston!) so program quality/impact on career prospects are my main criteria.

Cheers!

Johns Hopkins Hospital
Wash U
Emory
Vanderbilt
Pittsburgh
Boston Univ
Univ. of North Carolina
Case Western -Univ Hospital
Albert Einstein -Montefiore
Thomas Jefferson
Cedars-Sinai
Temple
Tufts
USC
Cleveland Clinic

I only interviewed at a few of these places, so I'm by no means an expert, but I'm gonna base this off of what I've read from this website and my personal experience.

JHU
Emory (awesome Cards program, like their own residents)
Wash U
Vandy (I hear Nashville is actually a really fun place to live, residents seem happy)
Pitt
UNC
Case Western
Einstein (Can't beat the NYC patient diversity)
BU/Tufts (depends if you want a larger or smaller program)
Cleveland Clinic (obviously amazing fellowships. I interviewed there for med school and really liked it, but I hear mixed things about the medicine residency)
USC/Thomas Jefferson
Cedars-Sinai
Temple

Good luck!

Johns Hopkins Hospital
Wash U
Emory
Vanderbilt
Pittsburgh
Boston Univ
Univ. of North Carolina
Case Western -Univ Hospital
Albert Einstein -Montefiore
Thomas Jefferson
Cedars-Sinai
Temple
Tufts
USC
Cleveland Clinic

your list looks good as is. might put tufts higher, i hear their residents are happy.

Hey, just wanted to post my top 8. Let me know what you guys think good/bad. I am interested in pursuing cardiology

1. University of Pittsburgh
2. Brown
3. Montefiore
4. Case Western
5. Tufts
6. Rochester
7. Mayo Clinic
8. Jefferson

Greeting everyone. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on my preliminary rank list. Especially any insights pro/con on the programs I have higher up.

I think I'm pretty set on my #1 choice of Hopkins, but after that I'm really conflicted. My choices are all over the place geographically and in terms of perceived reputation. I'm interested in Cardiology in the future but also considering general internal medicine (I'm interested in Public Health/Health Policy issues). I've sort of been forced to be geographically open since my better quality choices aren't in the best cities (I didn't get interviews at the heavy hitters in Cali/NY/Boston!) so program quality/impact on career prospects are my main criteria.

Cheers!



Johns Hopkins Hospital
Emory = Wash U (Cards at both programs is strong and both like to take their own ... i would rank based on where you got better feel ... or Atlanta Vs St louis ... I personally wouldn't want to be in Altanta)
Vanderbilt (IM strong .. not sure how cards there is)
UNC (like to take their own .... good clinical cards training ... opps for research if u want)
Pittsburgh
Montefiore
Case Western -Univ Hospital
Boston Univ
Cedars-Sinai
Cleveland Clinic
Thomas Jefferson
Temple
Tufts
USC

alphabetical
GI

albert einstein/monte
drexel
duke
georgetown
mt sinai
nyu
temple
thomas jefferson
UMD
UPMC Pitt
UVa
yale

Any ideas here about various UMDNJs? I am pretty sure abt. my ranklist except for the UMDNJs. I interviewed at both UMDNJ RWJMS Camden and UMDNJ-Newark. Newark was a much bigger program but I found Camden quite cozy [I mean Cooper, not the city!!:eek:] and fellowship prospects rather better. They have 15 cat spots and 22 fellows incl 5 card+ 4 GI I guess. dunno whether they prefer their own though and the place, despite of the commute option from Philly, is still a bit concerning., not that I have many options though :D; IMG with MPH [epidemiology]. Future fellow plan is either Cards or Pulm/CC. Any insights?

alphabetical
GI



Sinai/Duke/Yale
UPMC = UVa
Monte
NYU
UMD

then the rest

drexel
georgetown
temple
thomas jefferson

This process has been very flattering, and I am very grateful for the choices that I have. I know I can be happy at most of my programs, but was still wondering what you all thought...I like being in a city-type atmosphere, and I want to do GI.

ucsf
uchicago
northwestern
ucla
stanford
cornell
mt. sinai
bidmc
uwashington
michigan
cedars
ucsd
ucla-harbor
cal pacific
uc davis

This process has been very flattering, and I am very grateful for the choices that I have. I know I can be happy at most of my programs, but was still wondering what you all thought...I like being in a city-type atmosphere, and I want to do GI.

ucsf
uchicago
northwestern
ucla
stanford
cornell
mt. sinai
bidmc
uwashington
michigan
cedars
ucsd
ucla-harbor
cal pacific
uc davis

for the programs i know, maybe
UCSF
UW
UChicago/BIDMC
UCSD/Michigan
UCLA
NW
.
.
.
Stanford (beautiful area, but you said you'd like to be in a city)

but I bet you'd get a great fellowship out of any of those :-)

t

This process has been very flattering, and I am very grateful for the choices that I have. I know I can be happy at most of my programs, but was still wondering what you all thought...I like being in a city-type atmosphere, and I want to do GI.

ucsf
uchicago
northwestern
ucla
stanford
cornell
mt. sinai
bidmc
uwashington
michigan
cedars
ucsd
ucla-harbor
cal pacific
uc davis

ucsf/ ucla/ michigan/ stanford/ u washington
bid/ ucsd
cornell/ u chicago/ northwestern

This process has been very flattering, and I am very grateful for the choices that I have. I know I can be happy at most of my programs, but was still wondering what you all thought...I like being in a city-type atmosphere, and I want to do GI.



ucsf / uchicago / UCLA / Mich / Mt Sinai (Dr Crohn was here, wasn't he?) /
BIDMC
Cornell

then the rest
northwestern
stanford
uwashington
cedars
ucsd

Interested in GI:
Mt. Sinai, Yale, Cedars,
BU, NYU, Brown

Any opinions about these programs? pros/cons?
Any input would be appreciated! Thanks.

I have put some thought into ROL and this is my prelim list (subject to change) ... interested in Cards + International Health:

1. Duke (I have been told not to put Duke #1 due to them not matching last year and so my academic advisers were a little worried about quality of residents they got from scramble ... any opinions????)
2. WashU
3. UTSW
4. OHSU
5. UW - Categorical
6. UNC
7. Baylor- Houston
8. UW - Primary Care
9. Mayo-Rochester
10. UC-Davis
11. Harbor-UCLA
12. Tulane

Interested in GI:
Mt. Sinai, Yale, Cedars,
BU, NYU, Brown

Any opinions about these programs? pros/cons?
Any input would be appreciated! Thanks.

I would go with Yale or Mt Sinai as top choices ... depending on your preference of living (NYC vs new haven) followed by Cedars, NYU, Brown, BU

1. Duke (I have been told not to put Duke #1 due to them not matching last year and so my academic advisers were a little worried about quality of residents they got from scramble ... any opinions????)


I had the same concern, but after visiting Duke, their interns were some of the clinically strongest on the trail, and I went to all the big places. I believe Duke is making extraordinary doctors out of all their residents. Duke is one of those places: regardless of the starting ingredients, the final product is going to be great.

Just a note: it seems that Duke is one of the "love em or hate em" institutions in academic circles. Some of my advisers were telling me how "malignant" the program is; a vibe I didn't get at all when visiting. So, I think it's reasonable to consider what the advisers are saying, but after the interview day, it's all you.

You gotta follow your gut. If Duke is going to get you where you want to go, and you feel like your ideals match those of the program and the current house staff, there's no reason not to train there.

1. Johns Hopkins Hospital. Most autonomy early one, and down-to-earth style.
2. MGH. Special people, and great support network. A real family feel to it Strong e-mail from interview panel.
3. NYPH-Cornell. Strong training, and most supportive ancillary staff in NYC, IMHO. Highly ranked call.
4. University of Rochester. Special people, and most supportive out there, amazingly strong research. Nicest program director. Strong personal letter.
5. Vanderbilt. Amazing people; rigor of internship most severe on my list (only second to Hopkins), and SMART residents. Ranked in first group e-mail.
6. Emory. Amazing five hospital training, nice people. No permanent program director, and 80 interns seems too much.
7. Dartmouth. Great, unique training, but too weak in basic research, and far too remote.
8. BIDMC. Nicest people out there, but too much hand-holding, and weak basic research (strong clinical research). Ranked to match e-mail.
9. Yale. Best interview show, but I perceive disorganization and too laid-back; some SMART residents, some not impressive at all.
10. University of Maryland. Program director said they don't match many people from my school...down the list you go, UMD.


No more changes. My first four were hard to finalize. If I get any of my top five, I will be delighted. If I don't get my top three, I honestly don't care, and I won't be shedding any tears. This is because it has been a massive privilege to interview with all of these programs, and they are ALL excellent. My criteria were: 1) supportive environment with nice people; 2) excellent basic medicine training; 3) basic research capabilities.

I could give a rip about fellowship match rates or perceived prestige (if the latter was emphasized to me, it put me right off the program). My comments are only my own experiences on interview day and perceptions (confirmed by authoritative sources before making my list) and will obviously differ from other interviewees, so no complaining or flaming please, and I won't be justifying any of my choices or comments to anyone, because they are final and I want this over with. :) I'm a very average person who works hard, loves medicine, and I usually interview pretty well.

Folks, please take the "ranked to match" etc. e-mails and calls with a grain of salt. It really means nothing other than you had a strong interview and they perceive you not to be a troublemaker (critical because they are stuck with you for years!). Most of the organized programs don't play games; they just want decent human beings who work hard, and it's not quite as 'cloak and dagger' and this board makes it out to be.

Lastly, choose where you will be happiest - nobody on this board can do that for you. Good luck in the match! :luck:

I have put some thought into ROL and this is my prelim list (subject to change) ... interested in Cards + International Health:

1. Duke (I have been told not to put Duke #1 due to them not matching last year and so my academic advisers were a little worried about quality of residents they got from scramble ... any opinions????)
2. WashU
3. UTSW
4. OHSU
5. UW - Categorical
6. UNC
7. Baylor- Houston
8. UW - Primary Care
9. Mayo-Rochester
10. UC-Davis
11. Harbor-UCLA
12. Tulane

wash u/ uw-seattle/ duke/ utsw are all great programs, you should have no problem getting a fellowship coming from those programs. rank based on how well you think you would fit in with the residents and where you want to live for the next 3-6 years of your life (in case you stay for fellowship)

I had the same concern, but after visiting Duke, their interns were some of the clinically strongest on the trail, and I went to all the big places. I believe Duke is making extraordinary doctors out of all their residents. Duke is one of those places: regardless of the starting ingredients, the final product is going to be great.

Just a note: it seems that Duke is one of the "love em or hate em" institutions in academic circles. Some of my advisers were telling me how "malignant" the program is; a vibe I didn't get at all when visiting. So, I think it's reasonable to consider what the advisers are saying, but after the interview day, it's all you.

You gotta follow your gut. If Duke is going to get you where you want to go, and you feel like your ideals match those of the program and the current house staff, there's no reason not to train there.

It seems that Duke really acquired the bad rep which may have lead to the big scramble last year. However there is nothing like scrambling for 10 interns to make a program take notice of its reputation. After changing their schedule around I would say Duke is now the most cush "top" program that I know of. q5 with 24 hour call! Plus one half of the intern year is at the VA which is normally a much slower pace. Duke was a very impressive program and I would not worry about the last year scramble because most residents will rise to the caliber of their peers.

I would always take advisors input with a grain of salt. They are really that tuned into the life of residents unless they are a PD. My guess is that they are telling you the reputation of the school from when they were residents.

I would agree with Reddpoint's estimation re: Duke having the most cush intern year of any of the top programs. I'm not at Duke, but as I've said before, *if* the changes it's making work, it will be a great place to be for intern year. And every top program has its share of people who are going to be "mean" - if you get more than your fair share, it becomes malignant. Go to the location you'll be happiest at and wherever you perceive the chairman and PD to be ones who'll fight for their residents to get the fellowships they want (and obviously, if you like the location, if the fellowship program of your choice at that institution like to take their own, its a bonus).

I would go with Yale or Mt Sinai as top choices ... depending on your preference of living (NYC vs new haven) followed by Cedars, NYU, Brown, BU

I'm having trouble with ranking Yale vs. Cedars-Sinai. According to USNews, Cedars-Sinai seems to have a better ranking (top ten) than Yale in GI, but how come it seems downplayed in many of the GI rankings in this thread? Is the concern that IM training is better at Yale than Cedars, but GI fellowship is better at Cedars than Yale? Thanks.

I'm having trouble with ranking Yale vs. Cedars-Sinai. According to USNews, Cedars-Sinai seems to have a better ranking (top ten) than Yale in GI, but how come it seems downplayed in many of the GI rankings in this thread? Is the concern that IM training is better at Yale than Cedars, but GI fellowship is better at Cedars than Yale? Thanks.

yale. period.

This process has been very flattering, and I am very grateful for the choices that I have. I know I can be happy at most of my programs, but was still wondering what you all thought...I like being in a city-type atmosphere, and I want to do GI.

ucsf
uwashington
ucla

bidmc
uchicago
northwestern
cornell
mt. sinai

[these 3 are very good, but I moved them down b/c you want to live in a big city]
stanford
ucsd
michigan

cedars
ucla-harbor
cal pacific
uc davis

Let's be honest here. You could not have gotten about half of these interviews if you were truly average. You could just say that you work hard, love medicine, etc. Congrats on a nice looking list though.

1. Johns Hopkins Hospital. Most autonomy early one, and down-to-earth style.
2. MGH. Special people, and great support network. A real family feel to it Strong e-mail from interview panel.
3. NYPH-Cornell. Strong training, and most supportive ancillary staff in NYC, IMHO. Highly ranked call.
4. University of Rochester. Special people, and most supportive out there, amazingly strong research. Nicest program director. Strong personal letter.
5. Vanderbilt. Amazing people; rigor of internship most severe on my list (only second to Hopkins), and SMART residents. Ranked in first group e-mail.
6. Emory. Amazing five hospital training, nice people. No permanent program director, and 80 interns seems too much.
7. Dartmouth. Great, unique training, but too weak in basic research, and far too remote.
8. BIDMC. Nicest people out there, but too much hand-holding, and weak basic research (strong clinical research). Ranked to match e-mail.
9. Yale. Best interview show, but I perceive disorganization and too laid-back; some SMART residents, some not impressive at all.
10. University of Maryland. Program director said they don't match many people from my school...down the list you go, UMD.


No more changes. My first four were hard to finalize. If I get any of my top five, I will be delighted. If I don't get my top three, I honestly don't care, and I won't be shedding any tears. This is because it has been a massive privilege to interview with all of these programs, and they are ALL excellent. My criteria were: 1) supportive environment with nice people; 2) excellent basic medicine training; 3) basic research capabilities.

I could give a rip about fellowship match rates or perceived prestige (if the latter was emphasized to me, it put me right off the program). My comments are only my own experiences on interview day and perceptions (confirmed by authoritative sources before making my list) and will obviously differ from other interviewees, so no complaining or flaming please, and I won't be justifying any of my choices or comments to anyone, because they are final and I want this over with. :) I'm a very average person who works hard, loves medicine, and I usually interview pretty well.

Folks, please take the "ranked to match" etc. e-mails and calls with a grain of salt. It really means nothing other than you had a strong interview and they perceive you not to be a troublemaker (critical because they are stuck with you for years!). Most of the organized programs don't play games; they just want decent human beings who work hard, and it's not quite as 'cloak and dagger' and this board makes it out to be.

Lastly, choose where you will be happiest - nobody on this board can do that for you. Good luck in the match! :luck:

1. Johns Hopkins Hospital. Most autonomy early one, and down-to-earth style.
2. MGH. Special people, and great support network. A real family feel to it Strong e-mail from interview panel.
3. NYPH-Cornell. Strong training, and most supportive ancillary staff in NYC, IMHO. Highly ranked call.
4. University of Rochester. Special people, and most supportive out there, amazingly strong research. Nicest program director. Strong personal letter.
5. Vanderbilt. Amazing people; rigor of internship most severe on my list (only second to Hopkins), and SMART residents. Ranked in first group e-mail.
6. Emory. Amazing five hospital training, nice people. No permanent program director, and 80 interns seems too much.
7. Dartmouth. Great, unique training, but too weak in basic research, and far too remote.
8. BIDMC. Nicest people out there, but too much hand-holding, and weak basic research (strong clinical research). Ranked to match e-mail.
9. Yale. Best interview show, but I perceive disorganization and too laid-back; some SMART residents, some not impressive at all.
10. University of Maryland. Program director said they don't match many people from my school...down the list you go, UMD.


No more changes. My first four were hard to finalize. If I get any of my top five, I will be delighted. If I don't get my top three, I honestly don't care, and I won't be shedding any tears. This is because it has been a massive privilege to interview with all of these programs, and they are ALL excellent. My criteria were: 1) supportive environment with nice people; 2) excellent basic medicine training; 3) basic research capabilities.

I could give a rip about fellowship match rates or perceived prestige (if the latter was emphasized to me, it put me right off the program). My comments are only my own experiences on interview day and perceptions (confirmed by authoritative sources before making my list) and will obviously differ from other interviewees, so no complaining or flaming please, and I won't be justifying any of my choices or comments to anyone, because they are final and I want this over with. :) I'm a very average person who works hard, loves medicine, and I usually interview pretty well.

Folks, please take the "ranked to match" etc. e-mails and calls with a grain of salt. It really means nothing other than you had a strong interview and they perceive you not to be a troublemaker (critical because they are stuck with you for years!). Most of the organized programs don't play games; they just want decent human beings who work hard, and it's not quite as 'cloak and dagger' and this board makes it out to be.

Lastly, choose where you will be happiest - nobody on this board can do that for you. Good luck in the match! :luck:

I am not cruel enough to suggest changes to someone's list in mid-February, and I think your list looks just fine. I just wanted to clarify that Vanderbilt intern year has *9* call months (10 only if you are a prelim) - you get 2 weeks of scheduled vacation (plus 1 for Christmas or New Year's), 2 weeks of Neuro, 4 weeks of ER, 4 weeks of clinic.

I am not cruel enough to suggest changes to someone's list in mid-February, and I think your list looks just fine. I just wanted to clarify that Vanderbilt intern year has *9* call months (10 only if you are a prelim) - you get 2 weeks of scheduled vacation (plus 1 for Christmas or New Year's), 2 weeks of Neuro, 4 weeks of ER, 4 weeks of clinic.
...and that's why I think it's severe. Brilliant people at Vandy, though.

I had the same concern, but after visiting Duke, their interns were some of the clinically strongest on the trail, and I went to all the big places. I believe Duke is making extraordinary doctors out of all their residents. Duke is one of those places: regardless of the starting ingredients, the final product is going to be great.

Just a note: it seems that Duke is one of the "love em or hate em" institutions in academic circles. Some of my advisers were telling me how "malignant" the program is; a vibe I didn't get at all when visiting. So, I think it's reasonable to consider what the advisers are saying, but after the interview day, it's all you.

You gotta follow your gut. If Duke is going to get you where you want to go, and you feel like your ideals match those of the program and the current house staff, there's no reason not to train there.

Thanks for your input drjitsu, orientedtoself, reddpoint, baylorlion

Yeah .. Initially I was going to put it #2 based on these concerns but after visiting there and talking to the residents, I was sure I want to end up there. So decided to put it #1. Great felowship match, International health program, overall a great place to be at ... I hope they will have me ... I have already sent them "you are my #1" letter.

I am pretty sure there will be no changes to this list .. but we will see ... I still have few more days to play around with .... but as of now this list is certified.

yale. period.

I agree. Yale has a bigger name overall and in case you change your mind, Yale name/training can still carry you there....

Re: Cedars, they usually don't take their own for Cards but I am not too sure about GI

Just a note: it seems that Duke is one of the "love em or hate em" institutions in academic circles. Some of my advisers were telling me how "malignant" the program is; a vibe I didn't get at all when visiting. So, I think it's reasonable to consider what the advisers are saying, but after the interview day, it's all you.

I think a lot of that malignant reputation comes from past practices. An older internist I talked to said when he interviewed at Duke they still had q2 call, and all the interns on the team he rounded with during his interview day were sleeping through the attending rambling on about Bartter's syndrome. What's the point of having some famous nephrologist for an attending if you're too overworked to pay attention? Needless to say, I think they've made many many changes since then (~70's-80's).

Please Help me rank, Prefer NYC, somewhat interested in Cards but more importantly in the overall quality of program (Supportive, friendly, academics etc...)

Columbia
Mt Sinai
Cornell
BIDMC
Yale
Uchicago
UCLA
Northwestern

Please Help me rank, Prefer NYC, somewhat interested in Cards but more importantly in the overall quality of program (Supportive, friendly, academics etc...)

Columbia
Mt Sinai
Cornell
BIDMC
Yale
Uchicago
UCLA
Northwestern

columbia
ucla
cornell/ bid
yale/ u chicago/ northwestern

but you need to choose where you think you would be the happiest, and where the program can take you where you want to go. you shouldn't have a problem getting a fellowship from any of those programs.

Any thoughts/opinions on University of Pittsburgh (UPMC) vs. Tufts?

Those programs are in my top two, and I'm still not sure which will be number one. I see advantages and disadvantages of living in both Pittsburgh and Boston (when considering cost of living, proximity to family/friends, fun factor, etc). Fellowship placement is not really a priority issue for me (I'm interested in general medicine, or if anything, maybe endocrine or rheum).

I'd really appreciate some feedback!

Hi,

Interested in cards longterm. Have read a bunch of comments on sdn threads about individual programs, but still posting for more input!

UCLA and Stanford - seems equivalent reputation-wise, residents at both seemed happy and competent, despite what is written on sdn based on call schedule, wouldn't it be a ?harder intern year at Stanford (q6 vs. q4), both excellent fellowship placement, different hospital populations (UCLA main hospital + Satellite, Stanford has that + VA), comes down to difference in program feel with UCLA being larger facility/program...

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

Hi,

Interested in cards longterm. Have read a bunch of comments on sdn threads about individual programs, but still posting for more input!

UCLA and Stanford - seems equivalent reputation-wise, residents at both seemed happy and competent, despite what is written on sdn based on call schedule, wouldn't it be a ?harder intern year at Stanford (q6 vs. q4), both excellent fellowship placement, different hospital populations (UCLA main hospital + Satellite, Stanford has that + VA), comes down to difference in program feel with UCLA being larger facility/program...

Comments appreciated. Thanks.



I've heard the Stanford programs VA is getting slammed as a result of the economic downturn, but I'm sure it's happening at all VAs. With fellowship plans, I would go for UCLA because it seems UCLA programs like their own, and you'll have many options coming from UCLA (UCLA, Cedars, Harbor, etc), whereas it doesn't even seem like Stanford likes to take their own for fellowships...

Hi,

Interested in cards longterm. Have read a bunch of comments on sdn threads about individual programs, but still posting for more input!

UCLA and Stanford - seems equivalent reputation-wise, residents at both seemed happy and competent, despite what is written on sdn based on call schedule, wouldn't it be a ?harder intern year at Stanford (q6 vs. q4), both excellent fellowship placement, different hospital populations (UCLA main hospital + Satellite, Stanford has that + VA), comes down to difference in program feel with UCLA being larger facility/program...

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

you can't really go wrong with either. before interviewing, i thought i'd like stanford better, but when i actually looked at both programs, i was more impressed with UCLA. i thought the clinical training at UCLA was broader, the call schedule nicer, the city better than palo alto, and i thought that despite the size of the UCLA program, the residents were a very friendly and tight knit group. either way, it sounds like you'll end up at a great program.

Hi,

Interested in cards longterm. Have read a bunch of comments on sdn threads about individual programs, but still posting for more input!

UCLA and Stanford - seems equivalent reputation-wise, residents at both seemed happy and competent, despite what is written on sdn based on call schedule, wouldn't it be a ?harder intern year at Stanford (q6 vs. q4), both excellent fellowship placement, different hospital populations (UCLA main hospital + Satellite, Stanford has that + VA), comes down to difference in program feel with UCLA being larger facility/program...

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

I would go with UCLA as number 1 as well for the reason already mentioned .... for me the only plus for stanford would be palo alto.. well i not a large city person ... but if it were my choice .. i would still put UCLA #1

I have been working on my rank list and can't decide between these two programs for my number 2 and 3 spot. I am interested in Heme/Onc, and am concerned that UVa does not have Bone Marrow transplant currently. I really enjoyed both cities. Haven't heard much disscussion about these programs specifically on this board and any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Just a note: it seems that Duke is one of the "love em or hate em" institutions in academic circles. Some of my advisers were telling me how "malignant" the program is; a vibe I didn't get at all when visiting.

Duke *used* to have some fairly malignant tendencies-- and has spent many, many years working to get rid of them (and their reputation) on the medicine side. At my interview there, they very openly addressed why they had not matched, as well as the quality of the residents they got through the scramble (whose board scores were just as high as the ones on the rank list.) Program seems incredibly supportive of its residents.

Did a rotation there. Very happy people. Didn't see any of the malignancy people talk about.

I loved both of these programs on my interview; don't know which one to rank higher; I am interested in leaving the option open for fellowships; which place would put me in a better position for that?

At my interview there, they very openly addressed why they had not matched, as well as the quality of the residents they got through the scramble (whose board scores were just as high as the ones on the rank list.) .
well, of course they're going to say they got a bunch of great residents in the scramble. what are they going to say- "actually, unfortunately we got a bunch of losers"? didn't they scramble 12 or 13 spots? i have heard of scrambling 3 spots, not 13. what happened?

Let's be honest here. You could not have gotten about half of these interviews if you were truly average. You could just say that you work hard, love medicine, etc.
:rolleyes: "Let's be honest here"? I had around average scores in MSI/MSII and Step 1, I performed well in MSIII and I had a lot of research. Like I said, I work hard, I like the field, and I tend to interview well, so don't be putting words in my mouth. I'm pretty average, but that doesn't mean you have to like it...

:rolleyes: "Let's be honest here"? I had around average scores in MSI/MSII and Step 1, I performed well in MSIII and I had a lot of research. Like I said, I work hard, I like the field, and I tend to interview well, so don't be putting words in my mouth. I'm pretty average, but that doesn't mean you have to like it...

I have everything you stated and I only got 1 (of 7) interviews at all those places you got. I guess I am truly average.

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'around average.' If you got >230 step I it is not around average.

:rolleyes: "Let's be honest here"? I had around average scores in MSI/MSII and Step 1, I performed well in MSIII and I had a lot of research. Like I said, I work hard, I like the field, and I tend to interview well, so don't be putting words in my mouth. I'm pretty average, but that doesn't mean you have to like it...

I won't harp on it because that would be tedious and it's just not that big a deal.

That said: I would imagine you are at a UCSF/Stanford/UCLA-level med school, which is not average, particularly in a field like IM where pedigree counts for a lot. Also, more than cursory research is not average for an IM applicant.

You can, of course, describe yourself however you like, but it is disingenuous for someone with a ROL including most/all of the elite IM programs to say they are "nothing special". If they're interviewing every "average" Joe, they wouldn't be elite, would they?

:rolleyes: "Let's be honest here"? I had around average scores in MSI/MSII and Step 1, I performed well in MSIII and I had a lot of research. Like I said, I work hard, I like the field, and I tend to interview well, so don't be putting words in my mouth. I'm pretty average, but that doesn't mean you have to like it...

Perhaps our definitions of the word average don't coincide. Average to me would indicate that about half the people are better applicants than you, half are worse. Places like Hopkins and MGH are not going to invite applicants who are average in all respects to interview, there are simply too many excellent applicants to do so.

Your paper application must have some above average aspects, like your research and your MS3 grades. Your PS was probably very well written. The MS3 grades are frequently cited as very important factors in granting interviews, so I suspect you honored your medicine clerkship and sub-i or at the very least, many of your clinical rotations. This is not average. Therefore, I don't think it is accurate to say that you are an average applicant as a whole, despite average board scores (which aren't critical to IM) and first/second yr grades (pretty much not important unless you failed).

k, lets focus on helping each other with rank lists, etc. i think we can all agree that this process has been somewhat flattering.

I won't harp on it because that would be tedious and it's just not that big a deal.

That said: I would imagine you are at a UCSF/Stanford/UCLA-level med school, which is not average, particularly in a field like IM where pedigree counts for a lot. Also, more than cursory research is not average for an IM applicant.
Ok, I take it back. Perhaps I overlooked pedigree and tend to live in a world of my own regarding self-perceived abilities. We are fortunate, as I have emphasized. Thanks, good luck to all, and carry on...

Perhaps our definitions of the word average don't coincide. Average to me would indicate that about half the people are better applicants than you, half are worse. Places like Hopkins and MGH are not going to invite applicants who are average in all respects to interview, there are simply too many excellent applicants to do so.

Your paper application must have some above average aspects, like your research and your MS3 grades. Your PS was probably very well written. The MS3 grades are frequently cited as very important factors in granting interviews, so I suspect you honored your medicine clerkship and sub-i or at the very least, many of your clinical rotations. This is not average. Therefore, I don't think it is accurate to say that you are an average applicant as a whole, despite average board scores (which aren't critical to IM) and first/second yr grades (pretty much not important unless you failed).

I'm a MSIII who was thinking about pursuing an IM residency. However I was hoping to match into a top tier program until I hit a brick wall in my clerkships this year. From what you describe, the aspects of my record that are above average aren't as important as the aspects that are average. Briefly my record: 265 on Step I, tons of research including a 2 year stint at the NCI yielding a first authorship in the Journal of Clinical Oncology,Preclinical Grades- almost all Honors, Clerkship grades thusfar, Peds-Pass, Surgery-Pass, Family Medicine-Honors ( at my school, the grading is so random-errr!) The last three months of my MSIII will be my Medicine rotation that I have already been informed by others is almost impossible to Honor. In your honest opinion what do you think my chances will be next year to match into a "top tier" IM program?- Thanks for your time.

great.

I'm a MSIII who was thinking about pursuing an IM residency. However I was hoping to match into a top tier program until I hit a brick wall in my clerkships this year. From what you describe, the aspects of my record that are above average aren't as important as the aspects that are average. Briefly my record: 265 on Step I, tons of research including a 2 year stint at the NCI yielding a first authorship in the Journal of Clinical Oncology,Preclinical Grades- almost all Honors, Clerkship grades thusfar, Peds-Pass, Surgery-Pass, Family Medicine-Honors ( at my school, the grading is so random-errr!) The last three months of my MSIII will be my Medicine rotation that I have already been informed by others is almost impossible to Honor. In your honest opinion what do you think my chances will be next year to match into a "top tier" IM program?- Thanks for your time.

:sleep:

You see, when you're above average and call yourself average, all the gunners start to freak out.

I'm a MSIII who was thinking about pursuing an IM residency. However I was hoping to match into a top tier program until I hit a brick wall in my clerkships this year. From what you describe, the aspects of my record that are above average aren't as important as the aspects that are average. Briefly my record: 265 on Step I, tons of research including a 2 year stint at the NCI yielding a first authorship in the Journal of Clinical Oncology,Preclinical Grades- almost all Honors, Clerkship grades thusfar, Peds-Pass, Surgery-Pass, Family Medicine-Honors ( at my school, the grading is so random-errr!) The last three months of my MSIII will be my Medicine rotation that I have already been informed by others is almost impossible to Honor. In your honest opinion what do you think my chances will be next year to match into a "top tier" IM program?- Thanks for your time.

you have no chance

I would start talking to PDs at some nice community programs - your chances for academic medicine are gone

CGK-- you might want to think about doing family practice as an alternative

I'm a MSIII who was thinking about pursuing an IM residency. However I was hoping to match into a top tier program until I hit a brick wall in my clerkships this year. From what you describe, the aspects of my record that are above average aren't as important as the aspects that are average. Briefly my record: 265 on Step I, tons of research including a 2 year stint at the NCI yielding a first authorship in the Journal of Clinical Oncology,Preclinical Grades- almost all Honors, Clerkship grades thusfar, Peds-Pass, Surgery-Pass, Family Medicine-Honors ( at my school, the grading is so random-errr!) The last three months of my MSIII will be my Medicine rotation that I have already been informed by others is almost impossible to Honor. In your honest opinion what do you think my chances will be next year to match into a "top tier" IM program?- Thanks for your time.

I'm assuming this is a serious post. I'm not a PD at MGH, so I can't tell you your chances. All you can do is your best during your rotations and hope your attendings give you good grades. Try to go the extra mile and bring in relevant papers and give mini-lectures for the other students/interns if you can (on top of knowing all the details of your patients, and having your presentations be as polished as possible). Outside of this, apply to the "top programs" and see what happens, knowing that you tried your best.

I would have to agree with BGriffin on this, worry about the things you can actually control and hope for the best. The whole process can be stressful, especially the subjective nature of the 3rd year, but it all works out. Most people from american medical schools do very well matching in internal medicine and you have great scores on Step 1 with extensive research. Also, I know of some people with poor clerkship grades who got some big interviews with that level of research.

On another note, my rank list needs to be certified within the week and i still can not decide on how to rank UVa vs UNC. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated.

I would have to agree with BGriffin on this, worry about the things you can actually control and hope for the best. The whole process can be stressful, especially the subjective nature of the 3rd year, but it all works out. Most people from american medical schools do very well matching in internal medicine and you have great scores on Step 1 with extensive research. Also, I know of some people with poor clerkship grades who got some big interviews with that level of research.

On another note, my rank list needs to be certified within the week and i still can not decide on how to rank UVa vs UNC. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated.

Okay, enough with the chances/bashing responses. Start another thread if you want to discuss those things.

PHISHMAN, as for your question. I would go to UNC. First off, I like the location better. Chapel Hill is a pretty cool and young spot (not sure if you are single, etc). I didn't interview at either programs, but I definitely heard a lot more buzz about UNC than UVa. Also, if you are set on hem/onc, then I think going to a place with BMTU would definitely be more interesting for you personally. Now, I might be wrong, but when I was discussing programs I wanted to interview at with my advisor, she definitely mentioned UNC (ended up canceling cause I'm more of a big city person). Anyway, good luck to you. You're going to end up at a great place either way.

Okay, enough with the chances/bashing responses. Start another thread if you want to discuss those things.

PHISHMAN, as for your question. I would go to UNC. First off, I like the location better. Chapel Hill is a pretty cool and young spot (not sure if you are single, etc). I didn't interview at either programs, but I definitely heard a lot more buzz about UNC than UVa. Also, if you are set on hem/onc, then I think going to a place with BMTU would definitely be more interesting for you personally. Now, I might be wrong, but when I was discussing programs I wanted to interview at with my advisor, she definitely mentioned UNC (ended up canceling cause I'm more of a big city person). Anyway, good luck to you. You're going to end up at a great place either way.


I would say UNC bc supposedly they have just built a brand new huge cancer hospital that the state has committed a lot of money to...i think they are a top benign heme program as well. as far as training in residency, not much different i would guess. both great, so a matter of suburban/rural (cville) versus suburban/metro area (triangle) and personal fit.

as it stands currently....

1. UCSF
2. MGH
3. BWH
4. UW
5. BIDMC
6. OHSU
7. Stanford
8. BU
9. UPMC
10. Tufts

I am interested in academic general internal medicine and primary care.

Any thoughts/opinions on University of Pittsburgh (UPMC) vs. Tufts?

Those programs are in my top two, and I'm still not sure which will be number one. I see advantages and disadvantages of living in both Pittsburgh and Boston (when considering cost of living, proximity to family/friends, fun factor, etc). Fellowship placement is not really a priority issue for me (I'm interested in general medicine, or if anything, maybe endocrine or rheum).

I'd really appreciate some feedback!


I would (and did) put UPMC higher because they have a generalist pathway and Tufts is very subspecialty-focused (my interviewer mentioned this as well.) If I remember correctly, they have a tiny or nonexistent general medicine ward service! It's all cards, pulm, renal, ID, etc.

as it stands currently....

1. UCSF
2. MGH
3. BWH
4. UW
5. BIDMC
6. OHSU
7. Stanford
8. BU
9. UPMC
10. Tufts

I am interested in academic general internal medicine and primary care.

I think your list doesn't need to be changed if you're planning on gen int med. Congrats, that's a great list.

as it stands currently....

1. UCSF
2. MGH
3. BWH
4. UW
5. BIDMC
6. OHSU
7. Stanford
8. BU
9. UPMC
10. Tufts

I am interested in academic general internal medicine and primary care.

Based on your interest in GIM only I would consider putting UW up above MGH/BWH. Your colleagues at UW will be much more similar to you and the emphasis on GIM will be much greater. That being said, if you preferred the Boston programs for other reasons location etc. you obviously can do great coming out of any of the programs on the list. Its just a question of whether you want to be around people with similar interests vs a group predominately going into fellowships.

as it stands currently....

1. UCSF
2. MGH
3. BWH
4. UW
5. BIDMC
6. OHSU
7. Stanford
8. BU
9. UPMC
10. Tufts

I am interested in academic general internal medicine and primary care.

Wouldn't UW and OHSU be stronger in teaching general interanl medicine (out patient kind) rather than inpatient focus with all the other big hitter?? Just asking.

I would say UNC bc supposedly they have just built a brand new huge cancer hospital that the state has committed a lot of money to...i think they are a top benign heme program as well. as far as training in residency, not much different i would guess. both great, so a matter of suburban/rural (cville) versus suburban/metro area (triangle) and personal fit.

I would also put UNC over UVa.... not only because of the new hospital but we also have BMT unit which you can rotate through as an elective. And you can beat Dr Alice Ma as a teacher...she is awesome!!!

Thank you everyone for your responses regarding my residency program choices. I forgot to mention that I am from CA and would like to come to CA if possible. In the end, I'm starting to realize its more of where you feel the most comfortable and imagine yourself being happy ---> only problem is figuring that out!

Goodluck to everyone!

Based on your interest in GIM only I would consider putting UW up above MGH/BWH. Your colleagues at UW will be much more similar to you and the emphasis on GIM will be much greater. That being said, if you preferred the Boston programs for other reasons location etc. you obviously can do great coming out of any of the programs on the list. Its just a question of whether you want to be around people with similar interests vs a group predominately going into fellowships.

Wouldn't UW and OHSU be stronger in teaching general interanl medicine (out patient kind) rather than inpatient focus with all the other big hitter?? Just asking.

For those of you questioning mem's choice, did y'all interview at UCSF, BWH, or MGH? UCSF has two phenomenal primary care tracks and a huge gen IM focus. Have y'all been to SFGH-- diverse underseved population, right there. I didn't interview at the brigham (but I know they have an interesting social medicine), but MGH has a wonderful primary program as well and a more diverse population compared to the other Harvard affiliated hospitals.. I interviewed at UW, and was quite impressed, but I think UCSF far exceeds UW in terms of primary care. Just my 2 cents.

For those of you questioning mem's choice, did y'all interview at UCSF, BWH, or MGH? UCSF has two phenomenal primary care tracks and a huge gen IM focus. Have y'all been to SFGH-- diverse underseved population, right there. I didn't interview at the brigham (but I know they have an interesting social medicine), but MGH has a wonderful primary program as well and a more diverse population compared to the other Harvard affiliated hospitals.. I interviewed at UW, and was quite impressed, but I think UCSF far exceeds UW in terms of primary care. Just my 2 cents.

I agree completely that UCSF is similar to UW and for GIM Id pick between them based on location. BWH/MGH just seemed more fellowship/research oriented vs PC/GIM. On my interview day at UW I got the strong impression that GIM faculty members were valued and had the potential for advancement. This fact was not highlighted at UCSF on my interview day but that doesnt mean its not true. Whether having strong GIM faculty is really important I cannot say, but my own impression that the best were at UW followed by UCSF.

.

I agree completely that UCSF is similar to UW and for GIM Id pick between them based on location. BWH/MGH just seemed more fellowship/research oriented vs PC/GIM. On my interview day at UW I got the strong impression that GIM faculty members were valued and had the potential for advancement. This fact was not highlighted at UCSF on my interview day but that doesnt mean its not true. Whether having strong GIM faculty is really important I cannot say, but my own impression that the best were at UW followed by UCSF.

Interesting. My interviewer at UW flat out told me that they are trying to model everything after UCSF, and that they weren't there yet. She said if I was choosing b/t the two, she thinks UCSF would be a better place to train. I was shocked she said that, but happy she could be candid about the program. I had a chance to talk to primary care residents at both UW, UCSF, and MGH. All seemed happy about their programs and I'm convinced that all will be trained well.

Hi guys, I've been sort of watching from afar because you guys are in different league than I am, but I was wondering if you can help me with my list. I'm couple's matching with my husband (radiology) and he is letting me pick the order of the list, but I basically have to rank all the following. I'm interested in endocrinology and I just want to be happy with my husband these next few years. In no particular order:
Mayo Jacksonville
University of South Florida
Medical College of Georgia
University of Florida Gainesville
University of Florida Jacksonville
Eastern Virginia Medical School
University of Tennessee
Stony Brook
Mercer/Memorial Savannah
St. Lukes/Roosevelt
Mt. Sinai Miami
Robert Wood Johnson Camden
Winthrop

I,m looking for an internal medicine residency but I'm interested in pursuing cardiology. I need all the help I can get my options are

1. cleveland clinic found
2. Mount Sinai at Miami
3. Rush
4. Clevelanf Clinic flrida

thanks.

I,m looking for an internal medicine residency but I'm interested in pursuing cardiology. I need all the help I can get my options are

1. cleveland clinic found
2. Mount Sinai at Miami
3. Rush
4. Clevelanf Clinic flrida

thanks.


Spelling class?

Need some help here, and any input is greatly appreciated. As crazy as this sounds, reputation doesn't matter that much to me. I just want a place that's pretty balanced - great location, happy residents, and ability to match in decent fellowships. I need a good balance of everything if that makes sense.
In no specific order:
1) AECOM-Montefiore
2) UPitt
3) Emory
4) Mayo
5) Boston University
6) USC
7) University of Wisconsin-Madison
8) UCLA-Harbor
9) Kaiser LA
10) Kaiser Oakland
11) Kaiser SF
12) Georgetown

Thanks so much guys! :D

I need some help with my RoL, esp. with ranks 2-7. I do not have a geographic preference and want to do a Cardiology Fellowship (or possibly Pulmonary / Critical Care). So, here's what it looks like :

1 U Alabama Med Ctr-Birmingham
2 WSU/Detroit Med Ctr-MI
3 LSUHSC-Shreveport-LA
4 U Oklahoma COM-OK City
5 Pitt County Mem Hosp/Brody SOM (East Carolina University)-NC
6 U Texas Med Branch-Galveston
7 Methodist Hospital-Houston-TX
8 Howard Univ Hosp-DC
9 Pennsylvania Hospital
10 Staten Island U Hosp-NY
11 St Francis Hosp-Evanston-IL
12 RFUMS/Chicago Med Sch-IL
13 Bronx Lebanon Hosp-NY
14 U Alabama Med Ctr-Montgomery
15 Harbor Hospital Ctr-MD
16 UPMC McKeesport-PA
17 Woodhull Med Ctr-NY

Any comments / opinions are welcome

1. Duke
2. UVA
3.Colorado/Denver
4.TUFTS
5. MAYO ROCHESTER
6.LOYOLA
7.MUSC
8.WAKE FOREST

lol. People are coming out of the woodwork now...

ranmyaku, so sassy! where's your list?

as for the above comments on my rank list, thank you for your advice. UW and OHSU are both great institutions and i'd be happy at either one. as for why MGH and BWH are higher, there are several reasons.
1) i am more sure that i want to do academic IM than i am of wanting to do general medicine, and i can't dispute the fellowship opportunities coming out of bwh/mgh.
2) additionally, both of these programs have a dedicated primary care program director, which UW does not offer and i believe speaks well of their dedication to the program. BWH and UCSF also require a second interview day for primary care applicants, also indicative to me of their dedication to the program as a separate entity within the larger program. MGH has the largest GIM faculty in the country.
3) as i know i want to stay in academia, i anticipate more flexibility in finding a spot as a clinician-educator coming out of one of my top 3 rather than UW/OHSU. as in, probably easier to get on faculty at UW coming from MGH than vice versa. (and before you get all excited, this is just one of my reasons, and I know MGH faculty who trained at UW, so I know it can happen too.)
4) and last but not least, i have a family and, being a good partner, am taking my spouse's wishes and career path into consideration when i make my list.

like i said, i'd be happy at any of them.

1. Duke
2. UVA
3.Colorado/Denver
4.TUFTS
5. MAYO ROCHESTER
6.LOYOLA
7.MUSC
8.WAKE FOREST

Here's how I would rank:
1) Duke
2) Colorado
3) Mayo
4) Tufts/Wake Forest/UVa
5) Loyola

Not sure what MUSC is?

Any thoughts on Pitt vs. Colorado in terms of overall training and non-cards fellowship placement (renal, maybe CC)?

They keep switching on my ROL now that my interview days are fading in my memory. Thanks!

Any thoughts on Pitt vs. Colorado in terms of overall training and non-cards fellowship placement (renal, maybe CC)?

They keep switching on my ROL now that my interview days are fading in my memory. Thanks!

I can't say I know much about Pitt because I didn't interview there, but I can give you my take on Colorado.

First off, they are making some very nice changes at the Colorado program starting next year. They got rid of the ER rotation at University Hospital which a lot of the residents disliked. They are adding in 2 months of elective time your intern year and 2 months of elective time your R2 year. I also heard they are doing away with overnight call and moving to a total night float system (they were previously night float sun-thursday and overnight on friday and saturday night - atleast at University Hospital, not sure about Denver Health and the VA).

I think Colorado has a much better location - 320 days of sunshine, the mountains, a young and fun city, lots of things to do.

As for fellowship, I would say cards and GI aren't Colorado's strongest points, but everything else is awesome. If you are interested in Pulm/CC, Colorado is probably THE place to be. National Jewish is ranked #1 in the country (USNEWS - yeah I know these rankings suck, but it's all we've got) and University Hospital is #11. University Hospital is also #15 in renal.

The residents at Colorado all seem very down to earth and aren't trying to shoot each other down. The chairman of medicine also attends almost all morning reports and is a very nice and supportive guy.

My $0.02.

1 U Alabama Med Ctr-Birmingham
2 WSU/Detroit Med Ctr-MI
3 LSUHSC-Shreveport-LA
4 U Oklahoma COM-OK City
5 Pitt County Mem Hosp/Brody SOM (East Carolina University)-NC
6 U Texas Med Branch-Galveston
7 Methodist Hospital-Houston-TX
8 Howard Univ Hosp-DC

1. Duke
2. UVA
3.Colorado/Denver
4.TUFTS
5. MAYO ROCHESTER
6.LOYOLA
7.MUSC
8.WAKE FOREST

I would actually not change the list at all.

Good to see someone else is putting Duke #1 as well ... Doesn't seem to be too many here (or at least not who have posted their list)

Good luck.

1 U Alabama Med Ctr-Birmingham
2 WSU/Detroit Med Ctr-MI
3 LSUHSC-Shreveport-LA
4 U Oklahoma COM-OK City
5 Pitt County Mem Hosp/Brody SOM (East Carolina University)-NC
6 U Texas Med Branch-Galveston
7 Methodist Hospital-Houston-TX
8 Howard Univ Hosp-DC

I will keep UAB #1. The only other places that I know of are U Oklahoma, which is supposed to have been really good at one time in elctrophysiology with a great cardiology program, so will definitely put that #2 or 3. Also, ECU (East Carolina) has a good cardiology program and they like to take their own. UTMB is just opening up with few of the Ob and med beds...not sure about their future .. I would put methodist higher in top 5 for sure ... it is in the texas medical center and there are so many opportunities to hook up with people in cardiology just due to your proximity (not to mention Texas Heart/St Luke, UT-Houston, and Baylor are right there for you to do research) ..

So I would keep UAB #1 without doubt and then play with 2, 3, and 4 depending on where you want to live and where you got good feel ...

1 U Alabama Med Ctr-Birmingham
2 U Oklahoma COM-OK City
3 Pitt County Mem Hosp/Brody SOM (East Carolina University)-NC
4 Methodist Hospital-Houston-TX
5 WSU/Detroit Med Ctr-MI
6 LSUHSC-Shreveport-LA
7 U Texas Med Branch-Galveston
8 Howard Univ Hosp-DC

Good Luck

Any thoughts on Pitt vs. Colorado in terms of overall training and non-cards fellowship placement (renal, maybe CC)?

They keep switching on my ROL now that my interview days are fading in my memory. Thanks!

CC, I have heard, is strong at Colorado ... place is better than Pitt (i don't like cold places...my bias), ... training wise I don't think you can go wrong at either...

Good Luck

Can you guys help with mine?
Mayo Jacksonville
University of South Florida
Medical College of Georgia
University of Florida Gainesville
University of Florida Jacksonville
Eastern Virginia Medical School
University of Tennessee
Stony Brook
Mercer/Memorial Savannah
St. Lukes/Roosevelt
Mt. Sinai Miami
Robert Wood Johnson Camden
Winthrop

Spelling class?

Sorry about the spelling, I wrote that at a late hour and in quite a hurry. Besides the spelling comment, does any one have any help for me???
Let me start again.
My options are:
1. Cleveland Clinic Foundation in Cleveland Ohio
2. Mount Sinai in Miami
3. Rush
4. Cleveland Clinic in Florida

I'm interested in IM and later on in Cardiology. Any advice anyone?
Thanks again.

Did those of you ranking UCSF get post-interview feedback? Thanks.

Sorry about the spelling, I wrote that at a late hour and in quite a hurry. Besides the spelling comment, does any one have any help for me???
Let me start again.
My options are:
1. Cleveland Clinic Foundation in Cleveland Ohio
2. Mount Sinai in Miami
3. Rush
4. Cleveland Clinic in Florida

I'm interested in IM and later on in Cardiology. Any advice anyone?
Thanks again.

I think CC in Cleveland is your best program, especially if you are interested in cards.

CC, I have heard, is strong at Colorado ... place is better than Pitt (i don't like cold places...my bias), ... training wise I don't think you can go wrong at either...

Good Luck


I'm applying in pulmonary/critical care right now. Colorado is a great place to learn pulmonary medicine and has pretty interesting research in that area. Their critical care is not all that special. What makes their P/CC program so great is their Pulm. Pitt, on the other hand, has a great critical care fellowship separate from their P/CC fellowship. It's a very strong program with respect to critical care, but their pulm is OK.

Deleted

I'll preface my posting with the following info: I am couples matching and we have tons of family in the NC/VA/MD area, so my list is heavily influenced by these factors and may not be the "expected" list.

1. Duke
2. UNC
3. Hopkins
4. Vanderbilt
5. Wake Forest
6. Emory
7. Brown
8. Penn
9. BIDMC
10. Pitt
11. UVA

Declined interviews at MGH, BWH, UCSF, Colorado, U Wash.
If I had been in this alone, I probably would have interviewed at the above places, just to check them out, but I didn't really want to live in Boston or SF. My independent rank list 1-4 would have been: Duke, Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Emory.

For those keeping score: Step I/II: 240s/260. Honored pretty much all of third/fourth year. 1 poster presentation no pubs. Top 15% of class, not AOA. Top 20 med school. Strong letters from full Professors. Some very strong leadership stuff with national recognition. Got 16/16 interviews applied to.

Apparently you don't need AOA and pubs to get top interviews, but I do think my leadership stuff may have pushed me into the top tier.

I'll preface my posting with the following info: I am couples matching and we have tons of family in the NC/VA/MD area, so my list is heavily influenced by these factors and may not be the "expected" list.

1. Duke
2. UNC
3. Hopkins
4. Vanderbilt
5. Wake Forest
6. Emory
7. Brown
8. Penn
9. BIDMC
10. Pitt
11. UVA

Declined interviews at MGH, BWH, UCSF, Colorado, U Wash.
If I had been in this alone, I probably would have interviewed at the above places, just to check them out, but I didn't really want to live in Boston or SF. My independent rank list 1-4 would have been: Duke, Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Emory.

For those keeping score: Step I/II: 240s/260. Honored pretty much all of third/fourth year. 1 poster presentation no pubs. Top 15% of class, not AOA. Top 20 med school. Strong letters from full Professors. Some very strong leadership stuff with national recognition. Got 16/16 interviews applied to.

Apparently you don't need AOA and pubs to get top interviews, but I do think my leadership stuff may have pushed me into the top tier.

good to see some studs ranking duke first.

I think CC in Cleveland is your best program, especially if you are interested in cards.

thanks, what do you think about the rest? which should I put 2nd? rush or mount sinai.

I'll preface my posting with the following info: I am couples matching and we have tons of family in the NC/VA/MD area, so my list is heavily influenced by these factors and may not be the "expected" list.

1. Duke
2. UNC
3. Hopkins
4. Vanderbilt
5. Wake Forest
6. Emory
7. Brown
8. Penn
9. BIDMC
10. Pitt
11. UVA

Declined interviews at MGH, BWH, UCSF, Colorado, U Wash.
If I had been in this alone, I probably would have interviewed at the above places, just to check them out, but I didn't really want to live in Boston or SF. My independent rank list 1-4 would have been: Duke, Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Emory.

For those keeping score: Step I/II: 240s/260. Honored pretty much all of third/fourth year. 1 poster presentation no pubs. Top 15% of class, not AOA. Top 20 med school. Strong letters from full Professors. Some very strong leadership stuff with national recognition. Got 16/16 interviews applied to.

Apparently you don't need AOA and pubs to get top interviews, but I do think my leadership stuff may have pushed me into the top tier.


Hey VandyMed, just curious why you put UVA so low on your list?

I have it above Brown/Pitt/Vandy ... and I declined Emory (because of Grady). UVA is #4 on my list. I am just wondering if I missed something and I shouldn't rank it so high ...

my husband didn't actaully get an interview at UVA. So, i don't really want to be there as we couldn't live together -- or could live together but then would both have long commutes.

I did like the UVA program though

my husband didn't actaully get an interview at UVA. So, i don't really want to be there as we couldn't live together -- or could live together but then would both have long commutes.

I did like the UVA program though

Makes perfect sense. I really liked the options for a Masters in Clinical Science or whatever during second year at Virginia.

I too am couples matching, and I actually would have had Vandy much higher on my list but in my spouse's department Vandy is very weak. In Medicine your PD is freaking awesome and I loved the Informatics fellowship options there.

Couples match really changes things.

I've noted a lot of people ranking Brown pretty high, my biggest concern was the fellowship match is horrible at Brown, and I want to do GI/Cards. Its pretty good in Pulm/CC. Anyone care to comment on why they are ranking Brown high?

Not to be accusatory, but I'm a fourth year student at Vandy and I know my classmates pretty well. And I'm fairly sure there's no one going into medicine who is couples matching who meets VandyMed2009's characteristics.
VandyMed, you've posted some really good stuff, so I was just wondering if you do go to Vanderbilt since it would help put things in perspective in an anonymous forum.

Why do so few post ranking top programs include Columbia? Did most of you not interview there or are you not ranking them?

If you're like me, you read this forum because you are a nervous, neurotic medical student who needs to do something, anything to avoid waiting, passively.

There's a problem with this. The information that you get on this forum sucks. Now this would be especially true if someone named VandyMed2009 is just trying to screw with us. But it's still true if that person is acquitted of the charges against them.

All of this crap about prestige is nauseating. It's embarassing and it's depressing. It makes us look like a bunch of law students. How many times does someone have to play the voice of reason by saying "follow you gut" or "do what feels right for you" before we realize that this is not the right place to work out our rank lists? Also, people on here on found to be liars far too often. How many trolls do we have to suss out before we realize that any argument made for or against a program on this forum is probably made from self-interest? Or just to f with you?

I check this forum too much. I don't post much. This probably makes me the average SDN user. Because this place freaks me out too much, I've made my decision to never come back to this forum. I won't be missed. This also, probably, makes me the average SDN user.

If you're like me, you read this forum because you are a nervous, neurotic medical student who needs to do something, anything to avoid waiting, passively.

There's a problem with this. The information that you get on this forum sucks. Now this would be especially true if someone named VandyMed2009 is just trying to screw with us. But it's still true if that person is acquitted of the charges against them.

All of this crap about prestige is nauseating. It's embarassing and it's depressing. It makes us look like a bunch of law students. How many times does someone have to play the voice of reason by saying "follow you gut" or "do what feels right for you" before we realize that this is not the right place to work out our rank lists? Also, people on here on found to be liars far too often. How many trolls do we have to suss out before we realize that any argument made for or against a program on this forum is probably made from self-interest? Or just to f with you?

I check this forum too much. I don't post much. This probably makes me the average SDN user. Because this place freaks me out too much, I've made my decision to never come back to this forum. I won't be missed. This also, probably, makes me the average SDN user.

Well Unlike House and now Spleenman, I believe that most people do not lie. And people, for most part, do go with their gut ... the information shared here about rank lists is to get more information from the other candidates that went to the same program (not all interview days are alike...lot of sampling error as far as interview day itself goes) ...

That being said, yes there may be A-holes here who will likely try to spoil it for everyone, whatever their motive maybe. But if 10 people tell me that they had an awesome day at Duke (just an example.... substitute your number 1 here) and 1 person comes here and bashes Duke, is that going to change my mind... NO it is not ... I am going to go with my gut and majority and with people who are actually there as residents like TommyGun04 etc. On the other hand, if I was the only one getting positive feel from the program and 90% people who went there for interview and the residents were telling me to stay away, then that warrants another look from my side to see what I may have missed.

Have i had bad experiences? Sure. Do i still believe most people try to do good? Yes. (Does it even matter if VandyMed2009 doesn't go to Vanerbilt as long as the information she is posting is legit. And how can you believe someone who has been here 1 day i.e. 1 post over someone who has been here long time AND mostly posted no-nonsense posts. i.e. just because doglover2 doesn't know anyone who is couples matching doesn't mean that VandyMed is not at Vandy and is not couples matching )

So everyone just calm down and Good luck :D :luck::luck::luck:

Spleenman's post is well noted, though I feel information gathered/shared here is valid as long as you take it with the appropriate grain of salt. I think providing some rationale as to ranks is more productive than just offering a list and getting a solely-prestige-based response.

That said, my developing list below. Interested in Cards/GI (like procedures) though I can see myself in other subspecialties as well, including GIM.

1. BWH
2. Duke
3. JHU
4. University of Colorado
5. Vanderbilt
6. OHSU
7. UW
8. UTSW
9. UCLA

Wildcard: University of Chicago.
Not ranking Northwestern (didn't like the vibe).

BWH as #1 is solid. Regarding UoC: as discussed in a thread I made quite a while ago (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=596142), I would like to be in Chicago for personal reasons, and on my actual ROL it currently sits #2. Were I not interested in being in Chicago it would probably be #7 on the list above, though I can certainly see myself happy and in good fellowship position coming out of the program. The recent loss of their Chair kind of shook things up a bit more, and their program is dropping back to its previously (even smaller) size (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=601577), and I am considering dropping it lower on the list.

Duke/JHU/Colorado/Vanderbilt are subject to change.
-Duke: really liked their upfront attitude regarding last year's debacle and got a great feel as to the resulting introspection and changes being made.
-JHU: the vibe I got was a bit more intense and not pretentious...but something slightly short of that. That said, I think the training there probably warrants that something-short-of-pretentious; you learn medicine.
-Colorado: While it may not have the national prominence as some of the others on my list, I got the impression they are one of the more progressive programs with a very active program team in-tune with the residents. Really liked the residents and love the city.
-Vanderbilt: I didn't have a eureka moment while visiting but as I think back, I don't have anything negative to say about the program either. Liked the residents, seems like there is great communication between residents and the program leadership. Could easily see it moving up my list.

The rest: Liked OHSU, loved the city, got the feeling the training there wasn't quite on par with those ranked above it but damn close. UW: really wanted to like the program but just didn't get a good feeling there. Still not quite sure why. UTSW: got a very "work hard, play hard" impression, which I would say I subscribe to; don't enjoy Dallas. UCLA: great new hospital but did not like the residents as much.

As far as post-interview contact, for what it is worth: ranked-to-match email from Vanderbilt, couple love letters ("we regarded you very highly)" from Colorado, "ranked favorably to match" from UCLA, and "we would love for you to train with us" from UoC immediately after the interview.

Thanks for any thoughts!

don't actually go to Vanderbilt. dont believe i ever claimed to!

i go to a med school in NC. Vandy is my pets nickname.


sorry for the confusion, i can see why it is assumed I was at vanderbilt.

and yes, fyi, i am couples matching. and i am at a top 20 med school (shouldnt take a genius to figure out which now that i've stated its in NC).

i suppoosed the name was somewhat confusing but it wasn't intended to be dishonest.

and yes, fyi, i am couples matching. and i am at a top 20 med school (shouldnt take a genius to figure out which now that i've stated its in NC).

i suppoosed the name was somewhat confusing but it wasn't intended to be dishonest.

Well both, UNC and Duke, are top 20 :D

don't actually go to Vanderbilt. dont believe i ever claimed to!

i go to a med school in NC. Vandy is my pets nickname.


sorry for the confusion, i can see why it is assumed I was at vanderbilt.



Hahahahaha

You know they say when you assume you make an ASS out of you and me.

Help rank, prefer strength of clinical training, happiness, then location, most likely gi or cc
by geographic area starting east to west:
Dartmouth
Montefiore
Thomas Jeff
UMD
RWJUH
Georgetown
Upit
CCF
Mayo-Rochester
UUtah
UCol
USC
UCLA med center

Why do so few post ranking top programs include Columbia? Did most of you not interview there or are you not ranking them?


Columbia chose not to interview me. They were the only top program that turned me down. That's why it isn't on my list.

I will keep UAB #1. The only other places that I know of are U Oklahoma, which is supposed to have been really good at one time in elctrophysiology with a great cardiology program, so will definitely put that #2 or 3. Also, ECU (East Carolina) has a good cardiology program and they like to take their own. UTMB is just opening up with few of the Ob and med beds...not sure about their future .. I would put methodist higher in top 5 for sure ... it is in the texas medical center and there are so many opportunities to hook up with people in cardiology just due to your proximity (not to mention Texas Heart/St Luke, UT-Houston, and Baylor are right there for you to do research) ..

So I would keep UAB #1 without doubt and then play with 2, 3, and 4 depending on where you want to live and where you got good feel ...

1 U Alabama Med Ctr-Birmingham
2 U Oklahoma COM-OK City
3 Pitt County Mem Hosp/Brody SOM (East Carolina University)-NC
4 Methodist Hospital-Houston-TX
5 WSU/Detroit Med Ctr-MI
6 LSUHSC-Shreveport-LA
7 U Texas Med Branch-Galveston
8 Howard Univ Hosp-DC

Good Luck
Thank you!
Any more thoughts?

1. Emory
2. Wash U
3. Cornell
4. Vanderbilt
5. UCSD
6. Michigan
7. UPMC
8. Duke
9. Brown
10. Hopkins
11. U Chicago
12. Maryland

Interested more in clinical training rather than academics, but considering crit care or cards fellowships. Like bigger cities vs. small. Got a great feeling from the first 4...any thoughts?

1. Emory
2. Wash U
3. Cornell
4. Vanderbilt
5. UCSD
6. Michigan
7. UPMC
8. Duke
9. Brown
10. Hopkins
11. U Chicago
12. Maryland

Interested more in clinical training rather than academics, but considering crit care or cards fellowships. Like bigger cities vs. small. Got a great feeling from the first 4...any thoughts?

I would personally rank it:

Hopkins, Duke, Cornell, Chicago, then

Emory, Wash U, Vanderbilt, UCSD and the rest.

1. Emory
2. Wash U
3. Cornell
4. Vanderbilt
5. UCSD
6. Michigan
7. UPMC
8. Duke
9. Brown
10. Hopkins
11. U Chicago
12. Maryland

Interested more in clinical training rather than academics, but considering crit care or cards fellowships. Like bigger cities vs. small. Got a great feeling from the first 4...any thoughts?

I think you can be confident you'd get great training at any of them. Given how competitive you must be to have interviewed at these places, I'd say odds are pretty good you'll match at your top 4 (most likely top 2) so if their order is pretty firm you should be good to go :-) Congrats!

My rank list is as follows:

1. NYU
2. Brown
3. Michigan
4. UVa
5. Einstein-Montefiore

I prefer to be in NYC as it is close to home for me and I had a favorable impression of NYU on my interview day. In addition, I'm interested in cards/critical care. Was just curious if there was anyone out there that has any opinion of NYU and the teaching that goes on there. Thanks for your help!

Help rank, prefer strength of clinical training, happiness, then location, most likely gi or cc
by geographic area starting east to west:
Dartmouth
Montefiore
Thomas Jeff
UMD
RWJUH
Georgetown
Upit
CCF
Mayo-Rochester
UUtah
UCol
USC
UCLA med center

I think you can be confident you'd get great training at any of them. Given how competitive you must be to have interviewed at these places, I'd say odds are pretty good you'll match at your top 4 (most likely top 2) so if their order is pretty firm you should be good to go :-) Congrats!

Thanks for the advice, both to you and BGriffin...I appreciate it!

Help rank, prefer strength of clinical training, happiness, then location, most likely gi or cc
by geographic area starting east to west:
Dartmouth
Montefiore
Thomas Jeff
UMD
RWJUH
Georgetown
Upit
CCF
Mayo-Rochester
UUtah
UCol
USC
UCLA med center


How do you quantify this? Seems like its just going to be based on someone's perceived prestige of the program...if they perceive it as more prestigious, then they will say the strength of clinical training is greater.

My rank list is as follows:



I prefer to be in NYC as it is close to home for me and I had a favorable impression of NYU on my interview day. In addition, I'm interested in cards/critical care. Was just curious if there was anyone out there that has any opinion of NYU and the teaching that goes on there. Thanks for your help!

1. NYU
2. Einstein-Montefiore
3. Michigan
4. Brown
5. UVa

If you didn't want to be in NYC or not too sure then I would put Michigan #1.

Interested more in clinical training rather than academics, but considering crit care or cards fellowships. Like bigger cities vs. small. Got a great feeling from the first 4...any thoughts?

My personal ranking would be:
1. Hopkins (Baltimore is not a small city per se)
2. Wash U
3. Emory
4. UCSD (personal bias for san diego)
5. Cornell
6. U Chicago (I don't know about this withall that laying off stuff going on at UC ... with other awesome choices, i will keep it here or at least not rank it too high)
7. Duke (small city but not that small either .... if you lift city restriction, I would put this #2 after hopkins)
8. Michigan
9. Vanderbilt
10. UPMC
11. Brown
12. Maryland

Given your interviews, I am pretty sure you will match at your #1. Good luck with ROL.

Rank list as follows (1 and 2 are fluid)
1. Mt Sinai
2. Cornell
3. Columbia
4. BIDMC
5. Yale
6. UCLA
7. NW
8. Uchicago
9. NYU

prefer NYC, interested in Cards, Value overall quality of program(academics, support, friendliness etc...)
Let me know what you think

Rank list as follows (1 and 2 are fluid)
1. Mt Sinai
2. Cornell
3. Columbia
4. BIDMC
5. Yale
6. UCLA
7. NW
8. Uchicago
9. NYU

prefer NYC, interested in Cards, Value overall quality of program(academics, support, friendliness etc...)
Let me know what you think

FWIW, that's about how I would rank the NYC programs. I loved Sinai, liked Cornell, didn't IV @ Columbia and hated NYU. Personally I'd move NW up to 5 but based on the interviews you got, you're unlikely to go down that far unless you made it a habit of punching your interviewers on interview day. Good luck.

Rank list as follows (1 and 2 are fluid)
1. Mt Sinai
2. Cornell
3. Columbia
4. BIDMC
5. Yale
6. UCLA
7. NW
8. Uchicago
9. NYU

prefer NYC, interested in Cards, Value overall quality of program(academics, support, friendliness etc...)
Let me know what you think


Any reason why Columbia is at #3, given that they have better track record of placing residents in Cardiology than Sinai or Cornell?

unless you made it a habit of punching your interviewers on interview day.

Wait! Is this a bad thing to do?! Another SDN'er swore that's how I'd get my number 1 spot. :scared:

My personal ranking would be:
1. Hopkins (Baltimore is not a small city per se)
2. Wash U
3. Emory
4. UCSD (personal bias for san diego)
5. Cornell
6. U Chicago (I don't know about this withall that laying off stuff going on at UC ... with other awesome choices, i will keep it here or at least not rank it too high)
7. Duke (small city but not that small either .... if you lift city restriction, I would put this #2 after hopkins)
8. Michigan
9. Vanderbilt
10. UPMC
11. Brown
12. Maryland

Given your interviews, I am pretty sure you will match at your #1. Good luck with ROL.

Thanks a lot...good luck to you too.

.

repeat

Why BIDMC over Yale?

I am debating on the following 3 catagorical IM programs:

-USC -Lahey Clinic -SUNY Downstate

Can anyone please help me decide which program is best overall, regardless of location. In the future, I know I would like to pursue a fellowship but I'm not sure which one. Therefore, I want to keep all my doors open with regard to fellowships. I would really appreciate all or any of your help. Thanks in advance!!!

Debating between UPMC (Pitt) vs. Wash U (St. Louis). Want to do G.I. and while both seem to definetely place very well for fellowships the past few years per their lists, I was wondering if anyone had any particular inside opinion from residents who either go to these places or applicants who interviewed there and what your thoughts are either on G.I. and fellowships or just the residency programs in general? Location is not as important. Thanks a lot.

Hey guys, I know this has been discussed before but im getting nervous about this as submission day comes closer.

I've made out my match list and put Upitt first. I'm interested in eventually pursuing cardiology. As of now I have ranked brown 2, monte 3, and case 4.

From what I have heard from my classmates and my adviser, brown is a better internal medicine program. However, if you look at their fellowship placement, they don't put many into cardio. 1 last year, 3 the year before. However I know monte matches double digits every year (with 100% match as per Dr. Silbiger), albeit a lot to community hospitals(but at least their matching somewhere). When I asked about this on my brown interview day they stated that it was just due to lack of interest in cardio, not lack of matching.

Just wondering what you guys have heard about this. Let me know. Thanks in advance.

I am debating on the following 3 catagorical IM programs:

-USC -Lahey Clinic -SUNY Downstate

Can anyone please help me decide which program is best overall, regardless of location. In the future, I know I would like to pursue a fellowship but I'm not sure which one. Therefore, I want to keep all my doors open with regard to fellowships. I would really appreciate all or any of your help. Thanks in advance!!!

I'm sort of in the similar boat as you. I have heard from numerous people that Lahey has a very strong reputation, more so than some of midtier programs in the northeast such as Downstate, Umass and Uconn etc. I'm thinking about ranking them pretty high myself, above a lot of university programs. Loved their location and overall friendliness. Downstate has a ton of in-house fellowships which seem to take all their own. But you would have to be willing to deal with the craziness of the program. Don't know much about USC, except they have a great football team.

Hey guys, I know this has been discussed before but im getting nervous about this as submission day comes closer.

I've made out my match list and put Upitt first. I'm interested in eventually pursuing cardiology. As of now I have ranked brown 2, monte 3, and case 4.

From what I have heard from my classmates and my adviser, brown is a better internal medicine program. However, if you look at their fellowship placement, they don't put many into cardio. 1 last year, 3 the year before. However I know monte matches double digits every year (with 100% match as per Dr. Silbiger), albeit a lot to community hospitals(but at least their matching somewhere). When I asked about this on my brown interview day they stated that it was just due to lack of interest in cardio, not lack of matching.

Just wondering what you guys have heard about this. Let me know. Thanks in advance.

wait a IM program where the residents aren't interested in Cards??? Is that possible?

1. BWH
2. Duke
3. JHU
4. University of Colorado
5. Vanderbilt
6. OHSU
7. UW
8. UTSW
9. UCLA

Wildcard: University of Chicago.


My changing list on ROL-eve eve:

1. BWH
2. Duke
3. Vanderbilt
4. Hopkins
5. Colorado
6. UChicago
7. OHSU
8. UW
9. UTSW
10. UCLA

2-6 still shuffling every time I think it though. Glad this will be over soon :) Any input appreciated.

Hey guys, I know this has been discussed before but im getting nervous about this as submission day comes closer.

I've made out my match list and put Upitt first. I'm interested in eventually pursuing cardiology. As of now I have ranked brown 2, monte 3, and case 4.

From what I have heard from my classmates and my adviser, brown is a better internal medicine program. However, if you look at their fellowship placement, they don't put many into cardio. 1 last year, 3 the year before. However I know monte matches double digits every year (with 100% match as per Dr. Silbiger), albeit a lot to community hospitals(but at least their matching somewhere). When I asked about this on my brown interview day they stated that it was just due to lack of interest in cardio, not lack of matching.

Just wondering what you guys have heard about this. Let me know. Thanks in advance.

I think you may have some wrong information about Montefiore. From the data I've seen on their website and the handout I got on interview day, they do not match double digit into cards every year. Check out: http://www.aecom.yu.edu/medicine/education.aspx?id=7220&bid=12462 , where they show 2005-2009 fellowship placements (Don't you hate it when programs group data from multiple years!). This shows only 13 cards matches from 2005-2009...which averages to only about 3 per year. Please correct me if I'm wrong because if they are indeed matching double-digits to cards every year it would definitely change how I rank them.

Hey IM 2009, I was actually at Monte for a month (did an endocrine elective which was excellent btw), and interviewed with the PD and asked about this. The response I got was that the list given contain the programs people went to, but they did not say how many people went to each one. So if 3 people stayed at monte, they only listed it once and so on. I also asked the residents at lunch and they agreed that they match >10 every year. I actually met 5 3rd year during my interview who stated they were doing cardio the next year (2 into monte, 1 sinai, 2 smaller community hospitals). I probably should have asked the PD for the exact match list from last year. Let me know if you hear anything else. Also if you know anything about brown that would be really helpful.

Is the general consensus that brown > monte in terms of prestige?

Handle, as has been said before, with the a caliber of interviews you got (BWH and hopkins, congrats!) it is highly unlikely you will go below #2. so do'nt stress too much the lower part of your list.

Hey IM 2009, I was actually at Monte for a month (did an endocrine elective which was excellent btw), and interviewed with the PD and asked about this. The response I got was that the list given contain the programs people went to, but they did not say how many people went to each one. So if 3 people stayed at monte, they only listed it once and so on. I also asked the residents at lunch and they agreed that they match >10 every year. I actually met 5 3rd year during my interview who stated they were doing cardio the next year (2 into monte, 1 sinai, 2 smaller community hospitals). I probably should have asked the PD for the exact match list from last year. Let me know if you hear anything else. Also if you know anything about brown that would be really helpful.

Is the general consensus that brown > monte in terms of prestige?

Thanks for the clarification. I really did like Montefiore. I have two friends who went through IM there and really liked it. I also thought their PD was great. Of the 4 programs you mentioned, I interviewed at all of them except Brown (didn't apply). Brown aside, the relative ranking of your other three on my list is UMPC, Case, Monte.

If you're just talking prestige, Brown has the ivy league thing going for it which would be prestgious to people outside of medicine. But in the IM world I don't think Brown is that big a deal. If you think those silly rankings are a proxy for prestige than the US News wont help because neither are on the list. In terms of NIH research dollars, in 2005 Albert Einstein (don't know if this is only Monte) was ranked 28, while Brown didn't make the list. Anyways, I don't think there is that much disparity in reputation between Brown v Monte that you should decide based on that. I think Monte being near NYC would more than make up for any difference. I also think (and this is just a guess since I didn't go to Brown) that the depth and breadth of clinical training at Monte would far surpass Brown.

Just my two cents...

My changing list on ROL-eve eve:

1. BWH
2. Duke
3. Vanderbilt
4. Hopkins
5. Colorado
6. UChicago
7. OHSU
8. UW
9. UTSW
10. UCLA

2-6 still shuffling every time I think it though. Glad this will be over soon :) Any input appreciated.

long time listener first time caller...

as was said, very unlikely you are going to go past Dook, especially with their difficulty filling last year. personally, i am ranking vandy ahead of duke. (1. MGH 2. vandy 3. hopkins 4. duke ) vandy seems to have it together as a program, where duke is in big transition these days - who knows how all the changes will work and about 10 of your second years scrambled into medicine...i like vandy PD a lot better as well. i do like duke's chief sign-out and evidence-based focused. vandy takes their teaching curriculum very seriously, even handing pagers over during required conferences. i think the vandy intern year is harder than the proposed q5 and night floats (on some sub-specialty services) at duke. vandy icu is bigger and better (dr. wheeler attends 1-2 months a year, he wrote the critical care book). you get more acuity at vandy bc you do micu at vandy (q3), micu at va, ccu at va intern year. at duke, you only do va micu and duke ccu as intern and no duke icu until 2 year, where it is only second years, so you are it (which is good and bad i suppose)...duke has better "name" i guess, but that might change if they have trouble filling again or these interns underachieve compared to previous classes...vandy has solid matches in cards gi and pulm (the procedural subspecialties), with emory, penn, hopkins, many vandy, ucla on that list to name a few...anyway, i am not a duke hater or a vandy homer, i want to be at MGH, but that is my impression and one that other applicants that i have talked to, share, i'd say...

Interested in heme/onc. Want the usual- best fellowship placement, best training, happy life

Colorado (got an awesome vibe here- very progressive)
BIDMC
UCLA
UCSD
Chicago
Northwestern
Baylor
Emory

Hey all,

I previously posted asking for some thoughts regarding the programs I am deciding between. I've pretty much finalized my list, but still am a little uncertain about these two programs. I am from SF Bay Area, and would in the end (fellowship and beyond) like to settle here. Right now I'm interested in GI, but this is not definite; but I will be doing a fellowship in some area most likely.

What is troubling me is my thinking regarding fellowship. I am a city-person, and although Palo Alto is nice and very close to my hometown, I am not sure if as a single person it would be the best location for me. However, I am also thinking that going to Stanford would most likely put me in a better position for obtaining a CA fellowship rather than Northwestern.

In terms of overall program, when comparing the two they are quite different, and am not sure how they really rank versus each other; from what I gather Stanford would be strong for cardio, NW for GI/Allergy. In terms of people, both programs have friendly residents but are quite different; Stanford seems to attract the married/family-type, NW more like me (single/city-type). I know in the end, it comes down to overall "gut feeling" but my gut doesn't say anything.

Any thoughts about my dilemma; I'm sure I'd be happy at both, but unfortunately we still have to rank one versus the other...

Thanks in advance.

I'm changing my ROL. I just feel unhappy about 1-4. Man....

long time listener first time caller...

as was said, very unlikely you are going to go past Dook, especially with their difficulty filling last year. personally, i am ranking vandy ahead of duke. (1. MGH 2. vandy 3. hopkins 4. duke ) vandy seems to have it together as a program, where duke is in big transition these days - who knows how all the changes will work and about 10 of your second years scrambled into medicine...i like vandy PD a lot better as well. i do like duke's chief sign-out and evidence-based focused. vandy takes their teaching curriculum very seriously, even handing pagers over during required conferences. i think the vandy intern year is harder than the proposed q5 and night floats (on some sub-specialty services) at duke. vandy icu is bigger and better (dr. wheeler attends 1-2 months a year, he wrote the critical care book). you get more acuity at vandy bc you do micu at vandy (q3), micu at va, ccu at va intern year. at duke, you only do va micu and duke ccu as intern and no duke icu until 2 year, where it is only second years, so you are it (which is good and bad i suppose)...duke has better "name" i guess, but that might change if they have trouble filling again or these interns underachieve compared to previous classes...vandy has solid matches in cards gi and pulm (the procedural subspecialties), with emory, penn, hopkins, many vandy, ucla on that list to name a few...anyway, i am not a duke hater or a vandy homer, i want to be at MGH, but that is my impression and one that other applicants that i have talked to, share, i'd say...


I just have to say, I think this is a bit silly. I interviewed at Vanderbilt and Duke and they are both great programs. But, in terms of general medicine training, clinical strength, and fellowship placement, Duke is far superior, regardless of how many scrambled in last year. In addition, I fully believe that Duke is making those individuals into amazing doctors. (I don't care what you got on your boards or where you went to school... you suck at the begining of intern year) I spoke with many of them during my interview, and they are all extremely bright and hard working people.

Furthermore, I think it's obvious from the interview trail that almost all programs are going through a transition. With IoM recommendations and new ACGME rules constantly coming out, it's ignorant and oblivious not to be transitioning. Response to change is the hallmark of a superior program. Duke is answering that call to change, and in doing so is entering the new age of graduate medical education. In contrast to the above poster, I believe this is an exciting time to get involved with Duke internal medicine. I think the match at Duke is going to be extremely competitive this year. They are going to be even better than before.

(and you are in the ICU at Duke as an intern at Durham Regional, and the residents all said it's one of their favorite months)

Interested in heme/onc. Want the usual- best fellowship placement, best training, happy life

Colorado (got an awesome vibe here- very progressive)
BIDMC
UCLA
UCSD
Chicago
Northwestern
Baylor
Emory

Based strictly on reputation
UCLA
Chicago
Northwestern
BIDMC
Emory
UCSD=Colorado=Baylor

They are all pretty similar. UCSD does seem to be very strong for Heme/Onc (PD is heme/onc, and they have that hospital specific to it), but I'm not sure if you are 100% heme/onc. Also, I do have a west-coast bias, admittedly so. Also, not sure if all the changes at Chicago would affect your ROL either (I assumed it wouldn't). I interviewed at all the programs except Colorado, Emory, and Baylor which could be a reflection on why I have them lower.

Couple's match list:
1. JHU
2. MGH
3. BWH
4. UMichigan
5. UPenn
6. Mayo (Rochester)
7. JHU/Bayview
8. University of Maryland
9. JHU/Sinai


If I were in it on my own:
1. UMichigan (The best vibe on the track; excellent training, wonderful faculty + excellent research opportunities in my area of interest, great EMR, happy residents, very livable city)
2. MGH (Great program vibe, love the structure of the training, especially Bigelow and how the patients are covered by everyone - great teaching/learning opportunity, the amazing postgraduate prospects, happy residents with very broad interests)
3. JHU (love the "front-loadedness" of the program and the firm structure, on my interview trail got the feeling that it has the most skilled interns/residents and that the clinical training at Osler is unmatched)
4. Mayo (Rochester) (the nicest people on the trail, very supportive environment with extremely high standards, excellent research opportunities during training + excellent mentoring; the location, though, is a big drawback)
5. BWH (excellent training but seems like a cards factory, nevertheless the opportunities one can embrace during residency are amazing and it seems like the most well-rounded program of all)
6. JHU/Bayview
7. University of Maryland
8. UPenn
9. JHU/Sinai

We'll see what comes out of it.

I just have to say, I think this is a bit silly. I interviewed at Vanderbilt and Duke and they are both great programs. But, in terms of general medicine training, clinical strength, and fellowship placement, Duke is far superior, regardless of how many scrambled in last year. In addition, I fully believe that Duke is making those individuals into amazing doctors. (I don't care what you got on your boards or where you went to school... you suck at the begining of intern year) I spoke with many of them during my interview, and they are all extremely bright and hard working people.

Furthermore, I think it's obvious from the interview trail that almost all programs are going through a transition. With IoM recommendations and new ACGME rules constantly coming out, it's ignorant and oblivious not to be transitioning. Response to change is the hallmark of a superior program. Duke is answering that call to change, and in doing so is entering the new age of graduate medical education. In contrast to the above poster, I believe this is an exciting time to get involved with Duke internal medicine. I think the match at Duke is going to be extremely competitive this year. They are going to be even better than before.

(and you are in the ICU at Duke as an intern at Durham Regional, and the residents all said it's one of their favorite months)

silly? FAR superior?:rolleyes: ok, i'll bite.

dude, when they were passing out that kool-aid you just went ahead and started downing by the pint! it is daft to think that everything is rosey in durham...

first, my point was that you are just not in the duke icu as an intern- there is a difference in acuity and learning. as i said you are at the va icu as an intern (not drh)...

"But, in terms of general medicine training, clinical strength, and fellowship placement, Duke is far superior, regardless of how many scrambled in last year." duke doesn't have a general medicine department and many of their GIM faculty left in the last few years. clinical strength - not sure what this means or how to measure it. if you are referring to quality of teaching, i admit that i would not really know how to gauge this, but it is unlikely to be substantially different at either place. i will concede that fellowship placement is probably "better" at duke, but i do think their will be some downstream effects of last year's match, maybe i am wrong...vanderbilt is not going to limit your match ability, and duke doesn't guarantee you a spot anywhere.

i agree that you are going to get great training at duke and vandy. however, i don't think duke's match will be especially competitive this year. look, i talked to many people at interviews at top places that didn't even apply to duke because of last year...you cannot tell me that is good for the match.

i am a little annoyed that you so flippantly called my comments "silly" and then proceeded to make sweeping generalizations without support and statements like "i fully believe", again, with no real proof (how could you have proof that good doctors will come from these interns?) i have talked to residents at duke and not all of those scrambled folks have risen to the occasion, let's just say.

i respect your subjective perception of these programs, i hope that you would respect mine, however silly it may be to you.

Hey all,

I previously posted asking for some thoughts regarding the programs I am deciding between. I've pretty much finalized my list, but still am a little uncertain about these two programs. I am from SF Bay Area, and would in the end (fellowship and beyond) like to settle here. Right now I'm interested in GI, but this is not definite; but I will be doing a fellowship in some area most likely.

What is troubling me is my thinking regarding fellowship. I am a city-person, and although Palo Alto is nice and very close to my hometown, I am not sure if as a single person it would be the best location for me. However, I am also thinking that going to Stanford would most likely put me in a better position for obtaining a CA fellowship rather than Northwestern.

In terms of overall program, when comparing the two they are quite different, and am not sure how they really rank versus each other; from what I gather Stanford would be strong for cardio, NW for GI/Allergy. In terms of people, both programs have friendly residents but are quite different; Stanford seems to attract the married/family-type, NW more like me (single/city-type). I know in the end, it comes down to overall "gut feeling" but my gut doesn't say anything.

Any thoughts about my dilemma; I'm sure I'd be happy at both, but unfortunately we still have to rank one versus the other...

Thanks in advance.

nw is stronger than stanford in the GI department. it's also in a much more exciting area, esp for the individual who's single and preferring a bigger city. you will do perfectly fine applying from nw for fellowships. it's a no-brainer.

Based strictly on reputation
UCLA
Chicago
Northwestern
BIDMC
Emory
UCSD=Colorado=Baylor

They are all pretty similar. UCSD does seem to be very strong for Heme/Onc (PD is heme/onc, and they have that hospital specific to it), but I'm not sure if you are 100% heme/onc. Also, I do have a west-coast bias, admittedly so. Also, not sure if all the changes at Chicago would affect your ROL either (I assumed it wouldn't). I interviewed at all the programs except Colorado, Emory, and Baylor which could be a reflection on why I have them lower.

i'd disagree with the above ranking when considering heme/onc. BIDMC has some great matches for onc and should be higher. their matches are listed below:

2008 - DFCI, UCSF, BID
2007 - DFCI x 3, BIDMC, Fox Chase, Stanford, U Colorado, Moffitt, MD Anderson, UPenn, and UW Seattle

but of course, all the programs are great...

silly? FAR superior?:rolleyes: ok, i'll bite.

dude, when they were passing out that kool-aid you just went ahead and started downing by the pint! it is daft to think that everything is rosey in durham...

first, my point was that you are just not in the duke icu as an intern- there is a difference in acuity and learning. as i said you are at the va icu as an intern (not drh)...

As a current Duke resident and an enormous fan of the program, I'd be remiss not to comment here. I don't mean to hijack this thread and turn it into a Duke discussion, but there are several factual inaccuracies being propagated here, and several unfair assumpations as well. I could go on and on for pages about the virtues of this program, but I'll try to be brief.

But first, a preface to my comments. Ultimately, I think the important take-home message for these last days of the rank-list process should be that the nitty-gritty details of a program's rotation structure really should NOT be the determining factor in your rank list. In other words, I wouldn't worry about ICU time, number of call months, etc....every program is so different that you really can't make direct comparisons fairly, so you just end up making decisions based on inaccurate information and/or assumptions. This is crystal clear based on the numerous inaccuracies in some of the above posts. What's far more important, on the other hand, is how you're treated, how you're valued, what kind of support you have, what sort of an educational climate you're in, what kind of resources and funding support are available, and ultimately, what kind of people you'll be working with. And in this regard, it's impossible to go wrong with Duke. The culture here is quite different as compared so many of our peer / "ivory tower" institutions. I'd also like to add that despite what happened with the match, our intern class is incredibly strong, and will no doubt continue the tradition of excellence at Duke, both in terms of EBM strength, quality of clinical skills, and great fellowship matches. Just because someone had to scramble doesn't mean they're somehow bad candidates; it's incredibly difficult to match into certain competitive specialties!

For those who can't resist the nitty-gritty though (and I too was guilty of this during the match process) I should make some corrections here. First, Duke interns do NOT rotate through any VA ICU, as was stated incorrectly above. Here's the general critical care structure, roughly speaking:

-intern year = 4 weeks of Durham Regional ICU, 4 weeks of Duke CCU (the former being non-call and more procedure-based learning, and also incredibly well-liked by recent intern classes)
-JAR year = 6 weeks of Duke MICU, 4 weeks of Duke CCU (both overnight call; some may do a few weeks of VA CCU instead)
-SAR year = 4 weeks of VA MICU, and some do a few weeks of Duke or VA CCU as well, depending on your interests

What doesn't come through in this schedule though is the reasoning behind it, and the acuity of illness you'll face as an intern at Duke. Ultimately, an intern isn't ready to be in the Duke MICU, especially right out of 4th year. It's not at all uncommon for there to be 15 ventilated patients out of the 16 beds, 8 of whom are managed by each resident, while also doing consults on the floor/ED and carrying one of the code pagers. It's an unbelievable learning experience that would just be too much for the great majority of interns, no matter how good they might be. But this doesn't mean interns miss out on critical care. We have patients out on the wards that would be unit-worthy at most hospitals, and owing to the quality of our nursing staff and housestaff we take great care of these people and do so safely (but we could certainly use more MICU beds, which is true at most hospitals these days). In other words, it's not at all fair or accurate to assume that Duke interns somehow don't learn how to take care of sick patients just because they don't rotate through the Duke MICU. Rather, most of us would argue that we're better off with our current system, as the 2nd years gain much more from the ICU experience than they would as interns, and come out of the 2nd year more well-prepared to manage sick patients beyond just the intern-level. The capstone ICU experience, then, is the VA MICU one, whereby as a 3rd year you get to run the 8-bed MICU at the VA, with no fellow there at night. This is one of the most rewarding rotations for us, and is incredibly well-liked. And if you ask a fellowship program director about the clinical prowess of Duke residents, chances are they'll extoll it in several of the fellows they've matched from our program, and will often tell you how sought-after we are for this reason, in addition to our unsurpassed EBM training (this happens a lot on the fellowship interview trail actually).

I'm not in any way dismissing your feelings and intuitions about Duke, but it's important to have accurate information when making such an important decision. I'd also caution against any assumptions about the match at Duke this year. I've heard from several of those who are "in the know" that we actually had unprecedented interest in the program this year, especially in terms of people doing second-looks, writing first-choice letters, etc. The quality of applicants has apparently been quite phenomenal this year as well (from the mouth of several people who did the majority of the interviews for our program). Now, this shouldn't affect how anyone ranks us...you should always rank based on your own preference, regardless of how you think a program will rank you...but it's probably not wise to assume that this won't be a great match year for us, and to then use this assumption in your decision-making process. With the applicants I've met and the things I've heard, we're actually geared up for what is likely to be one of the best matches we've ever had! One of our largest weaknesses in the recent past, in my mind, is our failure to more actively discuss the countless strengths and unique features of our program. This year, that all changed, with the new website and re-designed interview process, and it looks like we're poised to reap the rewards.

So don't count Duke out! :)

And if anyone has specific questions about the program, don't hesitate to ask. I'd be happy to help.

(also, the comment about Duke not having a "GIM department" really isn't true; we have a division of general internal medicine that's housed within the Department of Medicine. While technically not a "department," most places I've been to don't have a GIM "department" either, and some of this is just semantics. I'm not sure what to say about GIM faculty leaving either...it's just not true! Every med center has some people come and go, but it's not like there's been some sort of mass exodus. In fact, we have a well-established, very respected GIM group, with several members doing incredible health services research, among other things. We also have an exploding hospitalist group, many of whom are teaching faculty for our program, and are among some of the most well-loved.)

Last minute thoughts on BIDMC vs. Cornell? I've re-certified my rank list several times after changing around these two programs, and am interested in people's thoughts on the strength of the clinical training, reputation, and resident happiness at both. I'm interested in cards after residency.

Thanks!

Thanks TommyGunn04 for that post.

Just my $0.02, programs do go unfilled for various reason and can happen to strong programs like Duke as well (Wash U went to scramble as well few year back...does it make a bad program? I don't see any shortcomings in their fellowship match currently). Some people are going to like some programs more than the others depending on what they experienced on the interview day. I don't think there is too much difference between most of the names being thrown here. Does anyone really think JHU, MGH et al, UCSF, Duke etc are going to prepare you any different? I presonally don't think so. Scramble or no scramble, there will always be superstars in all residencies and there will be underschievers (even at top programs).

Good luck to you all ... only 24 more hours before all this ends :D

Here is to getting into your #1 program :thumbup: :luck::luck::luck:

Last minute thoughts on BIDMC vs. Cornell? I've re-certified my rank list several times after changing around these two programs, and am interested in people's thoughts on the strength of the clinical training, reputation, and resident happiness at both. I'm interested in cards after residency.

Thanks!
Well, they're both pedigree programs if you care about that stuff. I hadn't attended my Cornell interview when I interviewed with BIDMC, but many co-applicants and BIDMC residents from NYC programs said that ancillary staff tends to be weak down there - everything from "need to bribe the nurses with money to care for the patient" to "need to do lots of blood draws" etc. I'm all for total care but, if you're pager is going off every ten minutes as an intern, it's nice to have supportive ancillary staff. AS such, I went to my Cornell interview with such low expectations, but I actually loved it. I found Dr. Pecker to be very genuine, and a no nonsense kind of guy. Unofficially, I've heard that Cornell has some of the best ancillary staff in NYC and it's a little better run. Obviously, both BIDMC and Cornell have around 40-50% private patients. For cardiology, I did note that BIDMC tends not to take many of their own, and they breed a competitive bunch. Not sure how Cornell is in cardiology. If you're interested in bench cardiovascular research, it's much stronger at Cornell. BIDMC is weak overall in most areas of basic research. The biggest difference, however, is that most of the people interviewing at Cornell seemed to want to do anything to move to/stay in the city, and I could care less about that. BIDMC was a bit more heterogeneous, and the hours looked better. I hope that helps.

good luck everyone on your final decisions tomorrow. :luck: i'll post my final rank list tomorrow night!

hi guys,
this is sort of last minute, but i wasn't getting any replies earlier, so i'm hoping i'll be luckier this time around. I was wondering how you would rank these schools - i care about happy residents the most, but like everyone else, i want to have decent fellowships, awesome clinical experience, and great location. Thinking about going into heme/onc.
1) AECOM-Montefiore
2) UPitt
3) Emory
4) Mayo
5) USC
6) University of Wisconsin-Madison
7) UCLA-Harbor
8) Kaiser LA
9) Kaiser Oakland
10) Kaiser SF
11) Georgetown

Thanks so much guys!
:luck:

Hi all. While I completely agree with the thoughts to go with your gut/feel/etc, I'm still stuck between a couple of these. Mainly stuck on the order of 2 and 3 (I'm not getting a strong feeling from my #1, but I've gotten very strong vibes from both my #2 and #3). I loved both programs, but am wondering which will make my fellowship match experience easier as one more factor to consider in my final list for tomorrow... going into Cardiology.

Here goes:
1 Johns Hopkins Hospital
2 Emory
3 JHU/Bayview
4 Shands
5 GW
6 Washington Hospital Center

Hi guys, I've been sort of watching from afar because you guys are in different league than I am, but I was wondering if you can help me with my list. I'm couple's matching with my husband (radiology) and he is letting me pick the order of the list, but I basically have to rank all the following. I'm interested in endocrinology and I just want to be happy with my husband these next few years. In no particular order:
Mayo Jacksonville
University of South Florida
Medical College of Georgia
University of Florida Gainesville
University of Florida Jacksonville
Eastern Virginia Medical School
University of Tennessee
Stony Brook
Mercer/Memorial Savannah
St. Lukes/Roosevelt
Mt. Sinai Miami
Robert Wood Johnson Camden
Winthrop
Personally a huge fan of the USF and UF programs... with Tampa > Gainesville as a city and UF > USF in terms of research, especially in critical care, with the exception of Hem/Onc (i.e. Moffitt). Mt. Sinai Miami Beach is strong for Cards, and getting better in that area. Also, you can't beat the view from the ICU... it's lovely. Mayo didn't invite me for an interview, and didn't apply to the others. Best of luck!

hi guys,
this is sort of last minute, but i wasn't getting any replies earlier, so i'm hoping i'll be luckier this time around. I was wondering how you would rank these schools - i care about happy residents the most, but like everyone else, i want to have decent fellowships, awesome clinical experience, and great location. Thinking about going into heme/onc.
1) AECOM-Montefiore
2) UPitt
3) Emory
4) Mayo
5) USC
6) University of Wisconsin-Madison
7) UCLA-Harbor
8) Kaiser LA
9) Kaiser Oakland
10) Kaiser SF
11) Georgetown

Thanks so much guys!
:luck:

Your list looks reasonable. I'd personally swap UW-M and AECOM. It hurt me not to rank Madison #1 (but my wife forbade me), it's a really great program.

I,m looking for an internal medicine residency but I'm interested in pursuing cardiology. I need all the help I can get my options are

1. cleveland clinic found
2. Mount Sinai at Miami
3. Rush
4. Clevelanf Clinic flrida

thanks.

1. CCF (Cleveland)
2. Mt Sinai MB
3. CCF
Rush? (didn't interview there)

Clearly your strongest program, by far is CCF Cleveland, especially in Cardiology (ranked #1 in US News Cardiology/Cardiac Surgery, I think). Mt Sinai MB just got their best Cardiologist back (Lamas, see NEJM.org this week for his most recent article), take 2 of their own (approximately, not guaranteed) per year, though I don't think that they do as well outside their own program. CCF is a nice place with nice people, and also have their own Cards fellowship. Don't know Rush at all.

Your list looks reasonable. I'd personally swap UW-M and AECOM. It hurt me not to rank Madison #1 (but my wife forbade me), it's a really great program.

that's actually not my rank list. i didn't put it any specific order. and p.s. i did love madison as well.

Hi all. While I completely agree with the thoughts to go with your gut/feel/etc, I'm still stuck between a couple of these. Mainly stuck on the order of 2 and 3 (I'm not getting a strong feeling from my #1, but I've gotten very strong vibes from both my #2 and #3). I loved both programs, but am wondering which will make my fellowship match experience easier as one more factor to consider in my final list for tomorrow... going into Cardiology.

Here goes:
1 Johns Hopkins Hospital
2 Emory
3 JHU/Bayview
4 Shands
5 GW
6 Washington Hospital Center


I would still go with Emory at #2. Good Luck.

Haven't really heard much about their program and searching for any constructive thoughts?

I would still go with Emory at #2. Good Luck.

Thank you. I flip-flopped those quite a few times these past couple of days, but that's how it sits now. Anyone else?

Does anyone remember the specifics of the new call schedule at Duke next year? Is it the same for interns/JARs/SARs?

I just want to say thanks to TommyGunn for his comments on Duke. The program is going through a lot of changes, as so many other programs are; however, as I've said before, I believe that Duke is going to be better than ever and very competitive this year.

I think he is able to express some sentiments about Duke much better than myself after only being there only a couple of days. Duke definitely infected me with their atmosphere and ideals. I think it's obvious I will be ranking them #1, and I am very excited about learning to be a doctor at such a wonderful institution.

Every program has it's strengths and weaknesses, and I think we'd all be pretty naive not to have at least one unknown, scary factor on our minds about any program we are hoping to attend.

Good luck to everyone in getting their #1.