To all applicants and, more importantly, interns and residents (and program directors!)---- how do/did you plan going about letting your top school or top school know that they are #1, #2 (or just ranked highly, etc) in your plans? Also, interns/residents, how did you do this (and how well did it work) when you ranked not long ago. Finally, what is clearly acceptable and what is clearly a no-no in the ways to go about doing so?
thanks all

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7643857#post7643857

You have asked the same question several times now. It's pretty simple.

Email/snail mail your top choice that you are ranking them #1, plus the reasons why they are your top choice, etc. Alternatively, you could have your department chair call on your behalf. If the latter, it helps if they know you well and/or the program director of your desired program.

No one is going to know how well it worked, other than anecdotal evidence of, I wrote my number 1 and I matched there. You could also look at the NRMP program director survey for IM and notice that "Post-interview contact" got the lowest scores for Mean Importance Ratings of Factors in Applicant Ranking. Also, if you read any of AProgDirector's posts, you will notice he says that post interview contact/thank you's, etc. mean essentially nothing.

"NOTE ALSO THAT ALTHOUGH APPLICANTS AND PROGRAM DIRECTORS MAY VOLUNTEER HOW THEY PLAN TO RANK EACH OTHER, IT IS A VIOLATION TO ASK FOR THAT INFORMATION."

That's pretty much all you need to know.

I think we all know the rules about post-interview contact, but there are still some remaining etiquette/functional questions. I went to your link, ranmyaku, but I didn't think they were answered there, either.
For example: you like 3 programs. You would be happy at all of them. You, either due to a sense of personal integrity or fear of getting "caught" (hopefully the former), do not want to tell all of them they are your "number one." Is it worth contacting schools #2 and #3 and telling them they are high on your list? What wording should you use? OR is all you are doing by contacting them is letting them know they are not #1?

Also, if you have been hearing nice things by phone and email about being "ranked to match" somewhere, and you think they will be #2 or #3, what is a polite enthusiastic response that doesn't give them the wrong idea?

While it's true you these decisions are not evidence-based due to some RCT on contacting program directors, I think knowing the "standard of practice" would be useful.

i would agree that it you should only tell them they are #1 if you are a highly competitive applicant to a program with few (5-10 spots) otherwise I don't feel strongly that it will help you.

I really was not planning on sending anything out like this. However, I had a multiple interviewers, including at my number one pick, look me dead in the eye and say, "if you want to come here, be sure to let us know."

So, needless to say I'm now going to be sending out the email. They're probably saying this to everyone, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I don't believe that not sending one of these will affect your position, but I'm leaning towards believing that sending it may move you from the second tier to a rank to match spot over someone they haven't heard a word from. These programs want people who want to be there.

So, my advice would be to go ahead and send it if programs are telling you that they want to know.

I still have not decided if I'm going to send out the "I will be ranking you highly" letter to my numbers 2 and 3... But, I definitely think it's a bad idea to say you're ranking multiple programs number one. If they rank you to match and you don't match there, they will know you were lying, and that can't be good for future prospects (fellowship). Not to mention you're a doctor (or a human for that matter) and shouldn't be lying... and didn't your mother ever tell you lying is wrong??

Or perhaps none of it matters at all. I'm pretty sick of playing this game. But it's a game that must be played. At least we're in the 9th inning... or fourth quarter... third period... whatever...

Well part of the problem is there is no "standard of practice."

Everyone will have a different opinion on the situations you described.

---Is it worth contacting schools #2 and #3 and telling them they are high on your list? What wording should you use? OR is all you are doing by contacting them is letting them know they are not #1?

I would think not. If it was me and I got a letter saying "you are high on my list," then that means I am not #1, but you want me to think that I'm high. So that doesn't really help you at all. In fact, it is in the realm of possibility that you could be ranked lower b/c of that. Granted that would take a PD who likes to overanalyze everything and loves playing games with applicants. (and probably has way too much time on his hands.)


---Also, if you have been hearing nice things by phone and email about being "ranked to match" somewhere, and you think they will be #2 or #3, what is a polite enthusiastic response that doesn't give them the wrong idea?

If it was me, I would just write back telling them how much I enjoyed my interview with them, how the residents were great, and i love x,y, and z about your program. I would just not reply using the words "im ranking you highly," "you are one of my top choices," etc. You can express interest in the program and make it seem like you are very into them by detailing how you fit into their program philosophy/goals.

ranmyaku,

I asked the question only twice now and the first was in another thread on a different topic (second looks). Furthermore, several would indicated more than two so lets not exaggerate if you please. I, also, do not like the practice of hijacking someone's thread so, therefore, I made a new thread. If you do not appreciate or object me asking the same question twice or asking "pretty simple" questions, then please privately PM me or just do not answer at all. Thank you

I really was not planning on sending anything out like this. However, I had a multiple interviewers, including at my number one pick, look me dead in the eye and say, "if you want to come here, be sure to let us know."



I've gotten that at multiple interviews too. One program basically said "we don't really consider people who don't let us know their interested". Whatever...I spent money to interview here, don't you think I'm interested.

I sent most programs a generic "hey I liked your program because (insert specific from interview day)..."

And my number one program, I told them so and only them.

Or perhaps none of it matters at all. I'm pretty sick of playing this game. ...

For schizzle

ranmyaku,

I asked the question only twice now and the first was in another thread on a different topic (second looks). Furthermore, several would indicated more than two so lets not exaggerate if you please. I, also, do not like the practice of hijacking someone's thread so, therefore, I made a new thread. If you do not appreciate or object me asking the same question twice or asking "pretty simple" questions, then please privately PM me or just do not answer at all. Thank you

lol. what's your problem

you could take an approach that worked for me and several of my friends. "On the advice of my mentor/chair of medicine/PD (pick one) I have decided to inform the top three programs of my serious interest in their training programs. I think that I would be a good fit at your traning program at .. for ... reasons. I really hope that you are as excited about me as an applicant as I am about your great residency. I hope to see you in June."

I sent something like this to my top three, got awesome feedback from each of them, and then matched at number one. dont feel like you need to play any game you dont want to play. you dont need to tell your number one they are number one.

Thanks you guys and gals as this is exactly what I was looking for! I think I may try idiamcbeans advice and let my top 3 know that I really would love being at their program should I match there. Also, ranmyaku's advice having PD/chair/advisor call a program for you also seems like a very sincere way to let them know you are serious. thanks all

I sent something like this to my top three, got awesome feedback from each of them, and then matched at number one. dont feel like you need to play any game you dont want to play. you dont need to tell your number one they are number one.

While you don't need to do anything, I don't see how it can hurt to tell your number one that they are your number one. If you are going to be sending stuff to your top programs, I think it would be more meaningful to tell them that they are your number one program.

I feel like I have read about the following scenario somewhere but can't find the thread:

Say you let your #1 program know they are #1. Then you get an email response saying they "intend to rank you to match." You breathe more easily, but then on match day you open your envelope and discover the program director didn't actually rank you to match ... and you get some other choice further down your ROL.

Have people (or do you know of people in IM) who have been in this situation? I feel like I have heard of this in surgery, but not sure if IM program directors are more honest ... I'm just curious.

I've never directly heard of this scenario. I do seem to remember hearing (can't recall where) that sometimes "rank you to match" can be based on historic averages of how far a given program has to go down their rank list in order to fill their class. For example, if program X typically has to go to #100 on their rank list in order to fill the 30 spots in their class, they may tell you that you are "ranked to match" if you are in their top 100. Then if it's an atypical year, you may miss out.

I've never directly heard of this scenario. I do seem to remember hearing (can't recall where) that sometimes "rank you to match" can be based on historic averages of how far a given program has to go down their rank list in order to fill their class. For example, if program X typically has to go to #100 on their rank list in order to fill the 30 spots in their class, they may tell you that you are "ranked to match" if you are in their top 100. Then if it's an atypical year, you may miss out.

Seems like a very reasonable explanation. I am also having hard time finalizing my rank order but I tihnk regardless of emails etc, rank where you think you will learn the most and be happy. Easier said than done :)

If anyone is planning on letting a program know that they are #1 Id do it soon because it sounds like rank lists are being formulated this week and next.

As for the importance of the email it probably is very program dependent and applicant dependent. One scenario I can see were it might help would be if your school does not normally send residents to a particular program. For example, you are at school in Oregon but love a program in South Carolina. Given the distance the program might not think you would be willing to make a huge change geographically and a email would help. However, if your at UCLA and want to go to USC it might not be a big deal (USC = so cal no so carolina)

i let my number one know this week, emailed the pd. To avoid the program thinking I tell multiple programs they are my number one, I had my clinical advisor send an email stating that I expressed this program as my number one. After all your advisor can only tell one program they are your number one.

I doubt this will make much of a difference, but I think I went about it the safe and correct way.