Has anybody ever used www.thedoctorjob.com (http://www.thedoctorjob.com) site for job search(they charge you a certain amount but gurantee jobs specially in metropolitan cities), would appreciate input on this.

No but it seems weird that they charge. There are a ton of physician recruiters who don't charge, so I would be somewhat wary of those who do. I would use them as a last resort.

Has anybody ever used www.thedoctorjob.com (http://www.thedoctorjob.com) site for job search(they charge you a certain amount but gurantee jobs specially in metropolitan cities), would appreciate input on this.

what position are you looking for?

I used MedSource Consultants out of VA but they have somewhat of a specialty in behavioral health. They were sharp and effective, though.

I used them. I liked their resume and cover letter writing service, and would consider using them again for this purpose only. You can get the contact info for all doctors of a given specialty in a given geographic area here http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/ (http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/) if you would like to wallpaper the planet with your resume on your own.

I could not recommend the letter service though. Some contacts are stale (60 letters out of 1500 came back & numerous calls from retired folks). Some contacts are inappropriate, for example I received a call from a fellow who was in the job market as well, wondering where I got their name from! None of the returned envelopes were sealed by their machine, and if you read the fine print on their guarantee YOU collate and ship the second mailing off after 6 months have lapsed without an offer– not them. Also, if you want the second mailing done before 6 months have lapsed then you forgo the money back guarantee.

You might wonder if it worked – sort of. I got a dozen or so calls from people looking to talk to me about jobs that were clearly outside of my skill set, to which I said “No thanks”. I landed 2 interviews and got one job offer – at my medical school where they knew me well and remembered me fondly. How much did their service really help me? You be the judge.

You should find plenty of opportunities without paying. There are job boards on Sermo and you can also find some incredible opportunities by using other social networking services (like Twitter, LinkedIn, etc.)

Recruiters are very eager to make a placement, so you won't have any problems finding recruiters who want to help you.

The recruiters are always being paid by the employer. You should not have to pay anything. Recruiters are being paid WELL by the way, often up to one years worth of salary.

So if you find your own place, that should help you with a big signing bonus, just because you save them the recruiter fee.

I would seriously urge you to think twice before utilizing the 'thedoctorjob'. I considered them once and did some research on them at one point, before talking to someone who paid a fortune but then had less than stellar results with them (similar to the experience of Lovebugz' on this thread). Fortunately, this person subsequently went on to find a great job- ironically within the same geographic area that 'thedoctorjob' supposedly covered.

Their business idea seems like a decent one, which is to flood an area with your resume to get the most responses and most job offers. Given the time constraints of many residents and fellows, and the annoyances of dealing with physician recruiters, 'thedoctorjob' may initially appear to be a good idea.

However, there are some things you need to realize, as the downsides of their business's service may not be immediately clear:


Before shelling out a hefty three or four grand, you will have no idea who these thousand-plus contacts will be. Most of the letters are likely going to be sent to contacts that are irrelevant, inappropriate or redundant. Some contacts will also be obsolete. You will still need to verify that certain groups that you're definitely interested in were included in that list.
Since you're paying by the letter, they have every incentive to inflate the contact list size and to send out many more letters than you realistically need. To this extent, they state that you should typically expect a measly 1-3% 'response' rate and therefore you should send out 1000+ letters. My advice is this: if you know of a specific geographic area you want to be in, a much less costly option would be to look up all the groups/departments in that area, and mail out your own resume and cover letter. Though this involves a little more work and some time, your response rate will be much higher, and the financial cost to you much less.
Poor paper and envelope quality. What kind of impression will you be creating for someone who receives an unsealed or poorly-sealed envelope?
Lastly, the owner of 'The Doctor Job' also happens to have this website: http://www.avitable.com/about/ You can come to your own conclusions about this guy.

Regarding the hidden costs of recruiters: Yes, they typically make 10-20K per placement, and they only have access to some of the jobs out there. 'The Doctor Job' claims that if you can get an unadvertised job, or a job without a recruiter, then that sum of money will then translate into a higher bonus and salary. First, there is no data or randomized control trials to back up their claims. Second, word-of-mouth and networking can only go so far for many employers and job-seekers, especially if the employer is looking for someone in a niche field who wants to be in that area, and who is looking for the best possible candidate. A hospital that needs a sub-specialist is not just going to sit there and wait for someone to present themselves, because the opportunity-cost of not advertising, waiting too long, and not having someone there working for them would be far greater than the relatively small price that they need to pay a recruiter or someone to place an ad in a specialty's medical journal or professional website. Remember that most groups and hospitals make money off of a new recruit for the first few years, so it is also in their interests to be proactive.

Granted, there are probably people out there who may have benefited from ‘thedoctorjob’, but my advice would be to not put all your eggs in one basket, and to stick to a traditional varied approach, which involves networking, word-of-mouth, focused resume-mailing campaign (based on your own research and look-up of addresses), searching job boards through professional organizations or medical journals, and yes, even using a good recruiter at times to seek additional options.

Good luck with your job search!

I haven't been able to independently verify that Avitable is the owner of The Doctor Job, but I did find this interesting poem on Avitable's blog:

Ode to my client who is a moron:
Oh client, my client
Your brain is surely dead
I've gnashed my teeth
I've rolled my eyes
Yet empty is your head
Listen to my words
Open your wallet
And give me all your bread

I haven't been able to independently verify that Avitable is the owner of The Doctor Job, but I did find this interesting poem on Avitable's blog:

Ode to my client who is a moron:
Oh client, my client
Your brain is surely dead
I've gnashed my teeth
I've rolled my eyes
Yet empty is your head
Listen to my words
Open your wallet
And give me all your bread

After reading his blog yesterday, he struck me as a pretty unpleasant and immature guy. Getting out of medicine was a good choice for him, IMHO.

Shotgunning your CV to anyone with a pulse is a pretty unpleasant and immature way to look for a job, too. Coincidence?

I haven't been able to independently verify that Avitable is the owner of The Doctor Job, but I did find this interesting poem on Avitable's blog:

Ode to my client who is a moron:
Oh client, my client
Your brain is surely dead
I've gnashed my teeth
I've rolled my eyes
Yet empty is your head
Listen to my words
Open your wallet
And give me all your bread

Wow. :eek:

This guy has another related blog:
http://twitter.com/avitable

A quick google search of his name + 'thedoctorjob' will verify who is he.

I am cracking up about the doctor job guy - although it does not surprise me one bit.

I want to share with you my perspective. Most - I said MOST, not all - recruiters that work for 'recruitment' firms are merely greedy. They do not care about the practice they are helping to recruit for (who are paying the large tab) or the physicians that they are helping. But, they get paid a lot of money when they "match" the two. And, it doesn't matter if things do not work out - they get there money at "point of sale" and they are out. so, please be careful when using 3rd party firms. they generally do not have your interest in mind. Also, please know that most firms will market other hospitals or practices jobs and pretend like they have a relationship with the practice when they do not. They sell you on the opportunity and then send your cv to the group with a little price tag attached saying - "he/she is interested in your opportunity - you can have this CV if you sign this agreement to pay us $40k if you hire him/her."

I suggest researching the areas you want to practice in and either call the hospital system recruiters (they are free to everyone) or call the hospital liaison or even contact the group directly. If you think about it, the private practice groups certainly do not want to pay a 3rd party firm for you either - that money could have been better spent on YOU, their new physician.

If you end up working with recruiters, it's critical to differentiate the good ones from the bad. Some are greedy while others are simply trying to make a living. Like auto sales, salary is often driven entirely by commission. So are they greedy, or are they simply trying to make a living?

I used comphealth. The opinion I have is based on the recruiter only. There are too many in the company to even attempt generalization. I basically told her exactly what i wanted, described my dream job, and pay, and it narrowed down the choices alot. Initially, I wanted to try it that way and see what came my way. I was impressed. Also, I was very selective with where my resume went, and I only communicated via email (blackberry) during the day, while conducting all phone contact in the evenings and weekeds.

I say this because the recruiters in essence work for us and the employer. You should never have to pay them, and they should be able to give you exactly what you want in the way that you want it. You don't want to give them free reign with your CV, as they will shop it around EVERYWHERE. You have to utlilize their skills appropriately, and not blame them for doing what they are here to do if you don't direct them.

Comphealth helped me from job search to contract signing. They were a one stop shop. I don't get anything for saying that as far as compensation, and this is not an ad for them. I don't care who you choose, just don't let them control your day.

repeat

After reading his blog yesterday, he struck me as a pretty unpleasant and immature guy. Getting out of medicine was a good choice for him, IMHO.

Avitable is a law school graduate, he created Legal Authority a job site almost identical to The Doctor Job but focused on law school graduates. Avitable sold Legal Authority but still owns The Doctor Job.

Read the find print on the money back guarantee on the The Doctor Job, and you will see that when you find out that you have paid $3000 for nothing you have no chance in getting you money back.


Avitable, who holds a Juris Doctor from Washington University Law School in St. Louis.

from; www.lawcrossing.com (http://www.lawcrossing.com)

Career Counsellor's Corner

Adam Avitable, Attorney Career Counselor, Legal Authority

By John J. Barnes

Adam Avitable, who counsels job-seeking law students and attorneys on a daily basis in his capacity as a career counselor at Legal Authority, explains why he believes that many attorneys looking to change positions doom themselves to failure by approaching their job search with a narrow mind.

Adam Avitable, a Career Counseling Manager at Legal Authority, a firm that devotes itself to marketing job-seeking attorneys to various kinds of legal employers, has been counseling both law students and established attorneys for several years now and, in the process, has reached some interesting and provocative conclusions about how attorneys, both individually and as a group, tend to approach the task of searching for a job.
"Most attorneys go about their job search all wrong," says Avitable, who holds a Juris Doctor from Washington University Law School in St. Louis. "They peruse local and national legal newspapers and magazines and if they see a job that interests them, only then do they apply."

When asked to critique such an approach, Avitable smiles. "Well, for starters," he says, "The 'Let's see what's out there' approach is rather disorganized and haphazard in my opinion. Furthermore, it's passive rather than pro-active. I've also noticed that when attorneys look for jobs, whether they realize it or not, their tendency is to seek what seems familiar or close to what they've already been doing. When they focus so narrowly, they pre-judge their adaptive abilities…the thinking process in bankruptcy law, for instance, is not that much different from real estate…and they miss out on the opportunity to branch out and try different things. More than anything else, I think, this frustrates me the most when talking with attorneys and law students. Take some chances, I tell them. True, you don't want to stray too far from your experience base, but some latitude is perfectly acceptable."

What about law students? Avitable was asked. What advice do you have for them?

"A reporter for the New York Times asked me this several weeks ago for an article he was doing," Avitable said, "and I'll tell you substantially what I told them. Unlike established attorneys who try to focus too narrowly when looking for their next job, law students tend not to focus at all and are often wildly unrealistic about their abilities and their opportunities. I'll get calls from law students in the bottom half of their class at a Tier III law school wanting to join a large firm. I have to tell them they don't have a chance."

We asked Avitable how he handled delivering such a difficult and ultimately depressing message. "Well, I tend to let statistics do the talking," he said. "I tell them that if they graduate Law Review from Yale or the University of Chicago and have finished a federal clerkship, preferably at the appellate level, they probably will have an excellent chance to join one of the great international law firms at a salary of well over a hundred thousand dollars a year. I point out that such law firms may make exceptions but that the general rule is that such firms only hire from the top 10 to 15 law schools as listed in the annual U.S. News & World Report survey, and generally from at least the top third or, at most, from the top half of the class at such schools, and the better the school, the better the chance of being hired."

So how do you give your clients such news and not have the typical student who assuredly is not from, say, Yale or Chicago, just give up? we asked.

"That's easy," Avitable said. "I tell my clients not to worry about such statistics, that almost nobody out there competing for jobs comes with top grades from a top school, that to the contrary, most attorneys, by definition, have average grades at average or less than average schools. In addition, I always emphasize that there are plenty of great jobs available for average attorneys or average students with average grades, that almost any attorney who has passed the bar in his or her state can get a job somewhere as a lawyer if that's what they want. I just read an article in the Los Angeles Times about an attorney who flunked the California Bar Exam 25 times before finally passing, and he's been happily employed as an attorney, the article said, for the last ten years."

Okay, so for a typical client that is a law student with average grades from a not-particularly-outstanding law school, how do you recommend treating the job-hunting process?"

"Foremost," Avitable says, "is to think of yourself as a product to be marketed. I know that sounds cold, but the reality is that you are offering something and must seek a market or markets which will be receptive to it. I would guess that 95% of all attorney jobs can be found in firms of 100 lawyers or less. These firms are usually regional and more likely to provide legal services only for a specific city or town. Such firms may or may not advertise. So what I suggest is the use of a good job board like the one you're on now. That will give you a 'feel' of what's out there in the geographical regions and practice areas in which you choose to work.

"In addition to applying for jobs there, you need to develop a campaign that solicits opportunities that are not advertised. This means getting a list of all the firms in your area and sending out a cover letter and resume to the hiring partner or coordinator of each one, for you never know when you might get lucky. The fact is, statistics indicate that's how most law jobs are located. Finally, and this is the most obvious, I suspect, you must uncover possibilities from friends of parents, relatives, personal friends and anyone else who might know of an opening. That way, you will have covered all the bases."

When asked whether working with attorneys' hopes, dreams and problems every day is frustrating, he shakes his head. "I sleep well at night, if that's what you mean," he said. "You can see on our site tons of testimonials from attorneys who have refocused themselves and gone about their job searches in the right way and found jobs. That really makes me feel good. There's a great job out there for everyone," he concluded, "I firmly believe that. It's just a matter of knowing how to find it."

The fine print of the money back guarantee on the The Doctor Job, shows that when you find out that you have paid $3000 for nothing, you have no chance in getting your money back. This guarantee has so many stipulations with strict time limits that you have no chance of getting a dime back when you have been ripped off by the Doctor Job.

“The Doctor Job uses seeded contacts to determine that letters have been properly mailed.” So you pay a fortune for an outdated lists of hospital administrators that The Doctor Job got off some database for pennies a contact or pennies per hundred even worse, many of the contracts the The Doctor Job sells you are intentionally false.

from; http://www.thedoctorjob.com/guarantee.php

†Official Guarantee Terms and Conditions:
I. Terms and Conditions
Within 10 calendar days after the end of the Job Search Period, the Eligible Client must completely and correctly fill out www.thedoctorjob.com/guarantee_form.php (http://www.thedoctorjob.com/guarantee_form.php) which will qualify the Eligible Client to take advantage of step one of this guarantee. The Doctor Job will subsequently prepare one additional mailing for such Eligible Client to mail to potential employers.
If the Eligible Client has not found a Job within 180 days after requesting the second mailing, and if the Eligible Client has mailed out all letters within 5 days of receiving them from The Doctor Job, the Eligible Client may request a refund by notifying The Doctor Job through www.thedoctorjob.com/guarantee_form2.php (http://www.thedoctorjob.com/guarantee_form2.php) within 5 calendar days after the end of the above-described 180-day period. Within 60 days after receiving the Eligible Client’s request, The Doctor Job will refund the entire amount that the Eligible Client paid for the original services.
When The Doctor Job provides the Eligible Client with an additional mailing, the total number of additional letters comprising the additional mailing will not exceed 100% of the number of letters that The Doctor Job provided for the Eligible Client’s original order. When providing additional letters in accordance with this guarantee, The Doctor Job will make every attempt to remain within the Eligible Client’s geographic parameters. If this is not possible, The Doctor Job will provide the Eligible Client with recommendations as to the best markets, and will prepare the additional letters in accordance with those recommendations.
The Eligible Client must mail all additional letters within 5 days of receiving them from The Doctor Job. Within eight weeks of letters being mailed, the Eligible Client must mail all undeliverable mail back to The Doctor Job at the following address: The Doctor Job; Returns Department; PO Box 150160; Altamonte Springs, FL 32715-0160, or notify The Doctor Job if there is no such undeliverable mail. Failure to meet any of the requirements described in this guarantee will cause this guarantee to be void. The use of fraud, misstatements or other inappropriate acts or omissions to bypass or circumvent any part of this guarantee will be pursued to the fullest extent of the law. The Doctor Job uses seeded contacts to determine that letters have been properly mailed, and will investigate to ensure that the guarantee is only available to those who are properly eligible.
If the Eligible Client requests the additional mailing to be performed before the end of the Job Search Period, The Doctor Job will prepare this additional mailing at that time; however all subsequent rights under this guarantee, including the right to a refund, are forfeited.
II. Definitions. The following definitions shall apply to this guarantee:
A “Client” is a person who has agreed to and paid in full for the Bronze (or Basic) Package, Silver Package or Gold (or Premium) Package. Persons who purchase any other service, including but not limited to: resume, cover letter, or personal statement writing services, residency or fellowship mailing services, discreet mailing services, outplacement services, recruiting services, practice marketirng services or interview counseling services, are not considered clients under this definition.
“Market-Ready” means meeting the qualifications and requirements to begin work with a new employer as a physician, including being licensed and actively practicing. A Client who does not meet the requirements to work as a physician for any reason, including but not limited to age, mental defect, license, visa, criminal or professional misconduct, or certification, does not meet the definition of “Market-Ready.”



An “Eligible Client” is a Client who meets all of the following requirements:

Ordered a minimum of 1000 letters from The Doctor Job;
Used the documents created by The Doctor Job;
Mailed all letters received from The Doctor Job to employers in a timely fashion;
Is Market-Ready; and
Is unable to find a Job within the Job Search Period.
A “Job” includes any job offer to practice as a physician or self-employment as a practicing physician within the United States or its territories, from any source including sources that cannot be immediately tied to The Doctor Job or its services.
The “Job Search Period” is the time period beginning when the person becomes a Client and ending within 180 days after the later of 1) becoming a Client or 2) being or becoming Market-Ready.