i am a Family Physician (yes, the "lowly family doc") out of residency for 1 1/2 years. i work 4 days a week (not the 50+ hours), i make 155k plus production. i do NOT live in the hospital, (i take call 1x/week - the NP takes first call, i only handle calls she can't, which is almost never).

What? Are you stating or asking?

are u in a group practice?

if you are stating that that is your situation, count yourself very lucky.

if you are asking, i would say it is very difficult almost to the point of impossibility to find a position like that.

let me give you an example. a very good friend of mine is FP 2 years out of residency. she works 4 days a week, takes call for a week out of every 6 weeks so equivalent to about once a week and call is very light. she almost never goes to the hospital. so her situation is similar. the difference? she make 90K a year.

150K + production is unrealistic for FP even if you're working full time and working pretty hard unless you do alot of OB in which case you're going to have to compromise on lifestyle.

also, if you want to work in a metropolitan area or any other moderately desireable place to live, any FP position is hard to find. there is currently a glut of FP nationwide and unless you're willing to go to a very rural location, any position at all is difficult to find. my friend has been trying to find another job in another location because she has been trying to move. the situation in that location is so bad that the only position she could find was a full time position that paid 100K. there were 6 physicians interviewing for the job and she did not get it and she is a very good physician. so after 4 months of looking for a job in that location, she is still looking. (one word of advice, if you know spanish as an FP, it will help your prospects considerably)

so if you're willing to live anywhere, you might be able to find a position similar to what you stated. otherwise, you'll be lucky to find a relatively low paying position if you can find one at all.

of course someone could get incredibly lucky and get a job like that in the location they want but i that would be the exception, rather than the rule.

That's a scary story. I was under the impression that jobs were quite easy to find even when one was fresh out of residency.

I would be very interested in hearing similar stories.

Neo, You obviously have no clue of what you post.
Overcrowded? Less than 100K per year??? You pull out one person out of 2,500 + that come out of residency each year and generalize them for the whole specialty? You are seriously smoking unfiltered horse crap.

The reported average starting salary for FP's in in the 110-120 range now not including production bonus, liability, relocation and so on and so forth. The average FP makes around 140 K a year and this too is likely under reported. OB doesn't change the salary that much and can even lower it thanks to outrageous malpractice rates.

So yeah, you have to work your tail a little to get the salary up but only a FEW specialties don't.

Fewer residents are going into FP and a ton of FP's are on the verge of retirement as soon as the stock market pulls itself out of the hole it dove into. While there aren't as many jobs as before, the average resident is still getting 6 or more job offers before they finish and not just in Timberbrush, NM.

We are having a hard enough time attracting people to the specialty without people like NEO spouting misinformation on these forums. Do a little homework before you post.

newdoc, dont get your panties in a bunch. i'm extremely well acquainted with family practice seeing how 90% of my MD friends are FPs and i know at least 15 FPs well enough that i know about their financial and work situation. while i gave only one example, and yes it was probably the bad end of the spectrum, i wanted to counterbalance what the original poster was asking.

look at what he was asking. can a FP make 155K+ production working 4 days a week and taking q7 call? you seem fairly well informed. you think that that situation is likely? or even somewhat achievable? im not saying its impossible, but that situation is highly unlikely. you'd be lucky to make 155K + production working very hard in FP. the national average for FPs is 139K, but the median is 130K. the median is probably a better representation since whenever there is a large discrepanice between mean and median, it indications some anomalous outlyers in the data. the average hours worked per week is 57.8 hours. so the average FP makes around 130K working 57.8 hours a week. So how likely is it that you'll make 155K + production working 4 days (lets say 40 hours) a week taking call once a week? any logical person will see the rarity of such a situation.

what misformation do you see in the original post? i see no data in your post that contradicts anything.

1. do you doubt my friend makes 90K working 4 days a week? since you dont know my friend i fail to see how you could debate that.

2. do you doubt there was a full time job offered at 100K and 6 people were after the job? it happened.

3. do you doubt someone has looked and is still looking for a job after 4 months of looking in a particular geographic area? why would i make this up?


Just two years ago, FP jobs in the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area of north carolina were being offered AND filled at 80K a year. It was THAT bad.

now, the job market is improving because fewer people are going into FP, but the past couple of years have been pretty bad.

I dont know any unemployed FPs and everyone can find work someplace but to think like the original poster is to live in some sort of dream world. You will be VERY VERY lucky to work 4 days a week and make 155K+ a year. someone show me evidence to the contrary. i'm sure there are a few people who manage this, but that is definitely not the norm.

my buddy has been practicing FP in a group for 20 years. he busts his arse 4 days a week, 30 patients or so and pulls down 275$. i want all you naysayers out there to zip your flaps. and to all of those who really are interested in FP, you too can earn a nice salary and live a life of luxury, and be in the top 1% of salaries in the US

Neo,

Not only do you spout misinformation, you use common fallacies of argumentation and advocacy. You have taken a single situation that is has no basis of being typical and used it to draw conclusions on the whole. Then you spout off some average salary versus median salary to make us think you weren't pulling things out of your arse in your first post.

Keep up the postings about FP's making 80, 90 a year and we'll keep posting about the FP's pulling in mid-200's. Your average/median work hours are greater than many I have seen for FP's in many surveys and that information is highly subjective.

I wasn't debating about your poor friend who is bending over getting 90 a year. I couldn't care less that they don't know how to shop around or negotiate a salary.

6 people after a job at 100. Let's see... I bet they all called up saying "My visa's in the mail, I swear." Maybe a couple of them were washed out doc's coming off a suspension. Either way it's another single example you use to paint on the whole of FP.

Keep coming up with the doom and gloom, NEO. You keep diggin' your hole deeper. Try politics, your arguments sound like a candidate at a national convention.

well good for you, you know a guy that works 4 days a week and makes $275K a year in FP. guess what? i know people who barely finished high school that make $8 million a year. all you naysayers who say that you need an education to make a decent living can just zip it. those of you who are not interested in school, drop out now and you too can earn several million a year. its all about expectation and reality. sure some people make a crapload of money under situations you wouldnt expect. hell, i bet there are FPs that make 1/2 million a year. but if you go into FP thinking that its likely, you're in for a rude awakening. Just tell me how likely it is that an FP works 4 days a week and makes 155K+? did i ever say it's impossible? nope. is it probable? i dont think so.

newdoc,

find help here http://personalitydisorders.mentalhelp.net

you're welcome.

Since this thread is based upon sample job scenarios, let me jump in the fray.....
1. A recent graduate of our program is currently working 4 days a week, and one weekend a month and is being renumerated at 140k + benefits including 4wk vacation, and 2 weeks of CME. No OB. Works from 8-5:30 pm. Loving every minute of it.
2. Another guy joined an established practice, works 5 days a week, weekend calls by PAs, looking to pull in around 200k. ( Admittedly, this was an unusual situation, most FPs dont start at that figure.)
3. One of the current third year resident just signed a contract offering 135k plus 15000 for signing bonus/moving expenses, plus 25k per year for 4 years ( for loan repayment). He is scheduled to work 4 days a week for three weeks, and 6 days for one week of the month.
4. Several of the recent graduates have joined ERs at small/mid sized towns and are, for the most part, getting paid anywhere from 70 to 120 bucks an hour. If one works 4 12-hour shifts per week, that means anywhere from 160 to 250k per year. Most of the ER residents prefer to stay in metropolitan locales, hence there are countless jobs out there in small/rural towns.
5. Coming to the point about FPs being offered 80-90k, that too is a reality, especially in cities like LA, San Diego, Seattle etc, where a) there is oversaturation of physicians, and b) easy accesibility to peds/IM/psych etc.
Typically, FPs practicing in rural/underserved areas end up doing well financially. A town of 10,000 may not be able to support a cardiologist, or ENT, but they sure can utilize a FP.
So, if you are really interested in FP, by all means, go ahead and apply, you would never go hungry, as long as you are willing to be flexible about practice location.

Imhotep,

finally, someone who can carry on a logical discussion and bring forth information without getting his panties in a bunch. thank you. i have to totally agree with your last statement.

"So, if you are really interested in FP, by all means, go ahead and apply, you would never go hungry, as long as you are willing to be flexible about practice location."

the key i think being the last part of that statement.

PACtoDOC,

i have no idea who pissed in your wheaties this morning but there is no reason to give yourself high blood pressure over a thread on an internet discussion board. your friends make great money doing FP, good for them. did i ever say its impossible? nope. did i say it's improbable? yup. if you think making 900K is the norm in FP... well, i hope you're happy in never never land. i know pretty well how much my friends in FP make and they are all under 140K. I live in southern cal and they practice in LA, San Diego and Orange County and if you think its easy to find high paying FP jobs here.. well, i hope you have the pleasure of trying to find such a job. you will be lucky to find any job at all, especially with that laid back, easy going personality of yours.

let me give you some tips. when you try to insult someone:

1. try to be original
2. at least spell the insult correctly
3. use a real link, its funnier that way

neo are you going to be a doctor? Because I don't want you to be my doctor.

you may need to calm down there neo buddy. the point of this argument being that there is a variety in pay for FP. you *can* make a butt ton of money if you want to and without completely busting your nut, you just need to look.

if you dont want to do FP, dont. i would be happy if you stayed out of FP, more for us.

oh and PS, my buddy that makes 275K aint no rural doc, he lives within 40 minutes drive of the greatest city in the world, NY. so to all you hopefuls out there, ignore the nonsense.

I can see Neo's point - coming from SoCal. I lived in Santa Barbara for a few years and wow, FP's don't seem to do very well there. Of course, I don't have 1040's for 15 of them, but the FP's I worked with weren't very happy about their finances. They even had a hard time getting priv's at the main hospital there.

Since I want to go into FP, returning to Cali is NOT high on my priority list. It's all about specialists out there. SoCal is one of the FEW places where there's a pretty small ratio of primary docs to patients. I think it's like 1:15 or something.

Sooooh - everyone's right. Quit fighting.