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Highly unlikely but could happen.
Does the tuition stay the same?
Does the tuition stay the same?
I am a little materialistic so I would probably switch careers but it wont be easy. I love medicine and it would be difficult to give up. Hopefully Mr. Obama doesnt do this to me and other future doctors.
Does compensation = Value?
Come on, how many of you understand what it means to "live" off of a salary anyway? If you are working everyday on something that is satisfying and you believe in do you really need a **** load of money to make you feel like you have value?
Do you have any idea how many people are completely content on making 30 grand a year doing something they love i.e teachers, mechanics...
If you are going to medical school strictly because you want to make more than 100K a year then don't waste your time. There are many, MANY things you can do and make much more than this. Why don't you do that?
RB
Does compensation = Value?
Come on, how many of you understand what it means to "live" off of a salary anyway? If you are working everyday on something that is satisfying and you believe in do you really need a **** load of money to make you feel like you have value?
Do you have any idea how many people are completely content on making 30 grand a year doing something they love i.e teachers, mechanics...
If you are going to medical school strictly because you want to make more than 100K a year then don't waste your time. There are many, MANY things you can do and make much more than this. Why don't you do that?
RB
Yes, then after I finish medical school I would immediately move to another country that values physicians to do my residency.
yes that is a big question..
if tuition remains
i.e with a average debt of 300k after residency and growing a extra 100k every 6ish years..
well then
100k is more or less way too little.. of the need to pay of loans ..
so for me
if tuition remains the same
and salaries fall
yes
i will opt out of medicine, i wont be working 80 hour a week just to make due with a lower middle class life style.
No, I would not! In fact I will never apply to med school...again. Honestly though, every one on here talks about how much medical school costs as a reason for physicians to be reimbursed the way they are, but I think there is a bigger reason. That is 1. the investment of time to become a doctor (which no amount of money can buy back) and 2. the responsibilities required as a medical doctor. Would a 100k drop be enough to drive me away? Maybe. I'm not going into medicine for the money, but proper compensation should be a part of any job, which includes the difficulty of the job and training required amongst other things.
I wish there was the option to select maybe for this poll.
And yet I wonder, how much do the teacher and mechanic owe in student loans?
If you actually read the thread, most of us are concerned about whether or not we'd still have hundreds of thousands of student loan debt to pay off. NO ONE wants to be saddled with so much school debt they'll have to spend the rest of their lives paying it off, no matter how much they love their job.
Average debt is closer to 150k, half of what you said.
Does compensation = Value?
Come on, how many of you understand what it means to "live" off of a salary anyway? If you are working everyday on something that is satisfying and you believe in do you really need a **** load of money to make you feel like you have value?
Do you have any idea how many people are completely content on making 30 grand a year doing something they love i.e teachers, mechanics...
If you are going to medical school strictly because you want to make more than 100K a year then don't waste your time. There are many, MANY things you can do and make much more than this. Why don't you do that?
As far as debt goes. Lets say you don't manage your debt well... and end up $400,000 in the hole. You begin medical school at 21, hell lets say you begin medical school at 30. You have four years of school and lets say six years of residency where you will "live" off of $30,000 per year. You are 36 six years old, $400,000 in debt, and you now make $90,000 per year. (much lower than the average physician currently makes and lower than the dreaded 100K mark) If you pay $30,000 per year to your debt and $10,000 per year to retirement and live off of $50,000 per year -which is a "****-load" of money if you are not a diva- you are out of debt by the time you are 50 years old! That's SEVENTEEN years earlier than the average American by the way. and you have nearly $300,000 in retirement funds, given an 8% return. If you continue to work at $90,000 per year for the seventeen years after your debt is paid and save the $30,000 that you paid to debt per year along with the $10,000 you are already contributing then you could retire, along with the rest of us, at 67 years old with nearly a million dollars in the bank and live off of interest for the rest of your life at the tune of $80,000 per year given an 8% return.
In terms of money that's not a bad life unless you think you are entitled to more...
RB
No joke. I wouldn't even consider medicine if $100k was my realistic maximum earning potential. Not a chance in hell.PharmD anyone?
Everyone says there's things you can do that'll guarantee you the same amount of amount as doctors. But that's complete bs. Nothing pays as good as being a doctor, which is why it's the hardest professional school to get into. Law won't pay as well for most. Business won't pay as well for most. Computer science won't pay as well for most. Engineering won't pay as for most. Doctors will, on average, make more than all these professions. So what profession is it, exactly, that'll allow you to make more than doctors? And don't say things like working as the CEO of some big corporation and being a movie star, I'm not talking about outliers of a profession, I'm talking about average salaries.
Does compensation = Value?
Come on, how many of you understand what it means to "live" off of a salary anyway? If you are working everyday on something that is satisfying and you believe in do you really need a **** load of money to make you feel like you have value?
Do you have any idea how many people are completely content on making 30 grand a year doing something they love i.e teachers, mechanics...
If you are going to medical school strictly because you want to make more than 100K a year then don't waste your time. There are many, MANY things you can do and make much more than this. Why don't you do that?
As far as debt goes. Lets say you don't manage your debt well... and end up $400,000 in the hole. You begin medical school at 21, hell lets say you begin medical school at 30. You have four years of school and lets say six years of residency where you will "live" off of $30,000 per year. You are 36 six years old, $400,000 in debt, and you now make $90,000 per year. (much lower than the average physician currently makes and lower than the dreaded 100K mark) If you pay $30,000 per year to your debt and $10,000 per year to retirement and live off of $50,000 per year -which is a "****-load" of money if you are not a diva- you are out of debt by the time you are 50 years old! That's SEVENTEEN years earlier than the average American by the way. and you have nearly $300,000 in retirement funds, given an 8% return. If you continue to work at $90,000 per year for the seventeen years after your debt is paid and save the $30,000 that you paid to debt per year along with the $10,000 you are already contributing then you could retire, along with the rest of us, at 67 years old with nearly a million dollars in the bank and live off of interest for the rest of your life at the tune of $80,000 per year given an 8% return.
In terms of money that's not a bad life unless you think you are entitled to more...
RB
Yeah man I plan to dedicate 10+ years of my life into my career so I can be on par with the average joe mechanic.
It looks like you editted after I posted my response.I read the thread and if you read the rest of mine I address the debt issue.
RB
And yet I wonder, how much do the teacher and mechanic owe in student loans?
If you actually read the thread, most of us are concerned about whether or not we'd still have hundreds of thousands of student loan debt to pay off. NO ONE wants to be saddled with so much school debt they'll have to spend the rest of their lives paying it off, no matter how much they love their job.
Also, most (and, IMO, all sane) people want sufficient compensation for the demanding nature of the profession. No offense to teachers, but I expect to make more money when it takes at least 11 years of education after high school for my job instead of at least 4, especially considering I'll be pulling ridiculously long shifts without the entire summer off.
While I'm at it, I certainly hope that, in addition to significantly decreased medical school tuition, making only $100K a year should also come with some better hours and a decrease in malpractice rates.
so your not going into medicine?
what are you going into?
I read the thread and if you read the rest of mine I address the debt issue.
RB
Average debt is closer to 150k, half of what you said.
Of course!!! Anyone who wants to go into medicine to have a salary or to build a comfortable life for themselves is a selfish, capitalist, jerk, and doing it for the wrong reasons! 100k is so much money to live on! Ugh, when I'm running my free clinic in a rural area and also working as a trauma surgeon at hopkins on the weekends (and spending vacations vaccinating babies in the Sudan), I'll be so happy with that 100k. That's all I need ... ever.
As far as debt goes. Lets say you don't manage your debt well... and end up $400,000 in the hole. You begin medical school at 21, hell lets say you begin medical school at 30. You have four years of school and lets say six years of residency where you will "live" off of $30,000 per year. You are 36 six years old, $400,000 in debt, and you now make $90,000 per year. (much lower than the average physician currently makes and lower than the dreaded 100K mark) If you pay $30,000 per year to your debt and $10,000 per year to retirement and live off of $50,000 per year -which is a "****-load" of money if you are not a diva- you are out of debt by the time you are 50 years old! That's SEVENTEEN years earlier than the average American by the way. and you have nearly $300,000 in retirement funds, given an 8% return. If you continue to work at $90,000 per year for the seventeen years after your debt is paid and save the $30,000 that you paid to debt per year along with the $10,000 you are already contributing then you could retire, along with the rest of us, at 67 years old with nearly a million dollars in the bank and live off of interest for the rest of your life at the tune of $80,000 per year given an 8% return.
In terms of money that's not a bad life unless you think you are entitled to more...
RB
It looks like you editted after I posted my response.
$50000 is not a s***load of money "unless you're a diva". It's a s***load of money if you live somewhere with a low CoL, your spouse/SO makes good money as well (or you DON'T have kids), and/or you avoid all other forms of debt like a house, etc.
Also, paying $30K a year for 14 years will not pay off $400K worth of student loan debt unless you magically got a zero-interest loan.
Can I ask how old you are? You seem awfully naive about how much life in America really costs.
Of course!!! Anyone who wants to go into medicine to have a salary or to build a comfortable life for themselves is a selfish, capitalist, jerk, and doing it for the wrong reasons! 100k is so much money to live on! Ugh, when I'm running my free clinic in a rural area and also working as a trauma surgeon at hopkins on the weekends (and spending vacations vaccinating babies in the Sudan), I'll be so happy with that 100k. That's all I need ... ever.
Can I ask how old you are? You seem awfully naive about how much life in America really costs.
at 6.8% interest for 3-9 years of residency and fellowship, it'll pick up a lot of speed. Also, your average debt includes a lot of people who had a lot of outside financial help. If you attend a private med school and take out loans for your living expenses, you're easily looking at $200-250K before any interest kicks in. I have a classmate married to a resident, both of whom went to a private med school. They're about $500K in the hole, according to her.Average debt is closer to 150k, half of what you said.
Average debt is closer to 150k, half of what you said.
You should just stop posting in this thread right now. $50K is a reasonable amount of money for a single resident to live off when they're in the hospital all the time, but when you want to buy a house (mortgage+property taxes+gas+electric+water along with maintenance and the occasional furnace replacement), a car, get married, have children, take them on a trip to a water park some time, and pay your health/home/auto/life/malpractice/disability insurance, I think you'll realize how foolish your statement is.and live off of $50,000 per year -which is a "****-load" of money if you are not a diva-
It doesn't help to quote those figures if you don't know where they came from. They are averaging in students in MD/PhD programs, scholarships, and military scholarships. Those can easily bring down an average from 200k to 150k, for the students who paid tuition before it was hiked 5k per year. Students applying now are in a different boat.
Without all those programs you're talking about, average indebtness still isn't 300k. It's just not.
Eh, I plan to go into med school on a HPSP scholarship which means med school paid for. After that, military residency pays 60k a year. Which is decent with 0 indebtness. Then, I'll be doing military medicine for 4 years, which pays 120k a year starting for family med. More for others. Which is about the wage you guys are freaking out about. But I'm not worried about having a good lifestyle with 120k a real/more considering my girlfriend is also planning on being a doctor (but civilian). Regardless, people are acting like being a doctor is some huge financial martyrdom. I just don't agree.
Without all those programs you're talking about, average indebtness still isn't 300k. It's just not.
Factor in the interest payments you'll be making for 22 years. I just talked to an attending who went to CMS and became a plastic surgeon, and he said that's how long it took him to repay his loans. Tuition is a lot higher now (especially relative to physician salaries).Without all those programs you're talking about, average indebtness still isn't 300k. It's just not.
Eventually they will join us here in the real world...