For all you forensic psychology peps-is anyone interested in starting a forensic psychology only thread where we can address questions relating to jobs, research, clinical, etc issues?

Thanks!

yes =]

Me too... just don't have anything to talk about yet :)

MOD NOTE: I changed the title so people looking for forensic psych related info will be more likely to come in here. -t4c

MOD NOTE: I changed the title so people looking for forensic psych related info will be more likely to come in here. -t4c

Thanks!

Here's a question...

While I am waiting to hear back from schools I can't help but think of what I will do if I don't get accepted into any school. This is my last time applying, thus, I am forced to think of the alternative-working with a MA in forensic psychology. My primary focus is research, however, with the economy it appears that entry level research positions are being taken up by PhD's who are more qualified and willing to work for less money.

I'm already into the six figure's in student debt, and I'm wavering between trying to find a position at the MA level or simply switching careers (which I clearly don't want to do:confused:).

So, my question is...where and what positions are being offered at the MA level? I live in the eastcoast where forensic related jobs are already highly competitive. Are there any good websites or forums that post clinical or research oriented jobs specifically for forensic psychology?

I feel like I completed 10 years of schooling for nothing, so any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!:)

Here's a question...

While I am waiting to hear back from schools I can't help but think of what I will do if I don't get accepted into any school. This is my last time applying, thus, I am forced to think of the alternative-working with a MA in forensic psychology. My primary focus is research, however, with the economy it appears that entry level research positions are being taken up by PhD's who are more qualified and willing to work for less money.

I'm already into the six figure's in student debt, and I'm wavering between trying to find a position at the MA level or simply switching careers (which I clearly don't want to do:confused:).

So, my question is...where and what positions are being offered at the MA level? I live in the eastcoast where forensic related jobs are already highly competitive. Are there any good websites or forums that post clinical or research oriented jobs specifically for forensic psychology?

I feel like I completed 10 years of schooling for nothing, so any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!:)

As long as you are license eligible, in my state, you can work as a master's level psychologist in the prison system. Which is what I do.

As long as you are license eligible, in my state, you can work as a master's level psychologist in the prison system. Which is what I do.

In my state, and where I received my master's-they offer a LFMH program. However, they started this program 3 years after I graduated. So does it go by degree or state?

Thanks!

In my state, and where I received my master's-they offer a LFMH program. However, they started this program 3 years after I graduated. So does it go by degree or state?

Thanks!

There are a lot of variations by state.

This article is a great reference for anyone interested in forensic psychology

http://www.teachpsych.org/otrp/resources/helms06.pdf

For those who are interested, what's everyone working on these days? What are your research interests?

I'm currently doing research on the effectivness of the cognitive interview v. standard interviewing techniques used by law enforcement when interviewing witnesses of crimes etc. Also doing research on a new method of training for bomb squads/EoD teams on how to better search for IEDs under stressful conditions (ie: in the iraq/afghan war and in terrorist situations here in the US)

I'm currently doing research on the effectivness of the cognitive interview v. standard interviewing techniques used by law enforcement when interviewing witnesses of crimes etc. Also doing research on a new method of training for bomb squads/EoD teams on how to better search for IEDs under stressful conditions (ie: in the iraq/afghan war and in terrorist situations here in the US)

Super interesting! Do you have your MA or applying to PHD programs?

I research sex offender/SVP treatment, policy and risk assessment. I'm working on developing an inpatient treatment progress scale. Believe or not-there isn't any.

By the way, are we the only Forensic Psych people on here?

i am working on a study on jury decision-making, and am about to start one on victim impact statements.

i also identify mitigating factors in a death penalty case.

my research interests: psychopathy, NGRI competency, gender difference in criminals, sex offenders, serial killers, trauma...

By the way, are we the only Forensic Psych people on here?

<---see name. No, you're not. ;)

I'm working on developing an inpatient treatment progress scale. Believe or not-there isn't any.


:lame:

Well, at least someone (you) is working on that...lol...


And I'm a one-day-Ph.D. hopeful, so not in a school yet etc. But forensic pyschology is one of my areas of interest. Personality disorders,adult (possibly young adult) psychopathology, trauma/PTSD, self-esteem & self image, shame/guilt issues, emotional abuse, anger/aggression possible violence issues, sex offender treatment (and disorders), the psychology behind some kinds of killers, particulary spree shooters or...you know the types that get angry and shoot people. Actually I'd be interested in preventive work on that, to prevent it before it happens, although that's not always easy to predict because a lot of times those people have been boiling up for years. But just that 'type' of personality strain/mindset that leads to that kind of action. Not sure if that'd count as forensic though, since I'd like to catch them before the commit the criminal act...

I guess this really isnt a question, I just need some clarification.

I went to this Forensic Psychology Workshop at my school last week; the presenters were Alliant University. The main guy speaking is a former clinical psychologists, a current full time professor, a part time forensic psychologist, and he still does counseling on the weekend at his own practice...allegedly. I'm not syaing he was lying, I just quit believing him after he said some suspect stuff.

Basically he said that Forensic Psychologists can start off making 80K working in a prison. Then after a few years make up to 100K. He said he didn't know any clinical psychologists who made 100K, which I know is true. He said the job of a Forensic psychologist is recession proof and that he doesnt know any forensic psy whove been affected, but know many clinical who have. He made Forensic psy sound so good and even better when he mentioned those figures. I went to psychology club the next day and told everybody and they laughed and said Clinical makes more than Forensic. I went and tried to google information, but didn't find much.


Im really interested in Forensic, but leaning more towards Clinical. I just want to know if there is any truth to his claims. I would think they make about as much as clinical; yes or no? Are there more jobs available in Forensics? Etc. Sorry for the long post.

You have to become a clinical psychologist to become a forensic psychologist. Yes there are many of them that make good money working in the prisons, but incase you are unaware of the California financial crisis then most people know that those jobs at the Corrections Dept are not expanding. They haven't been cut back... yet. Many of my professors at Fresno State are practicing forensic psychologists, the ones who are part time and work for the prison system are all awaiting a potential pink slip.

I believe the salary for pure clinical psychologists has gone down on average over the last few years. mainly due to oversaturation of the field. I could be wrong tho.

Not sure why a group in an undergrad psychology club would all "laugh at you." Thats pretty rude and arrogant.

One thing you have to understand is that Alliant is a business, they are trying to sell you on a product. Is their product bad? Not necessarily. Personally, I would not be a part of the Alliant forensic psych dept unless it was the one located in Fresno. We have the best forensic psych faculty by light years and we have the only clinicial forensic psych track w/ the clinicial aspect being APA accredited. Their APA internship placement is not bad overall and from what their instructors tell me... is 100% for the top 25% of the class.

Your education is what you make of it. Some ppl gripe that Alliants class sizes are too large, which is true, it doesn't have the small classroom feel when each class has 10-40 students in it. It can also be hard to get a dissertation committee that is really dedicated to helping you, but thats not to say that it can't be done. If you want it badly enough, you will get it. Yes there have been people to go to their program and not do well, but there have been many to go through it and do well. Those who did not do well, probably have more to blame than the program itself.

btw what was the name of the presenter at the SD campus?

Forensic psychs are generally trained in clinical psych programs. That is, they are all clinical psychs, but their specialized clinical work is in forensic issues.

I don't remember his name off top, but I think he actually worked at the Irvine campus or something.

Yeah, I figure people are always going to sprinkle things when they are promoting themselves. I originally thought you pursued clinical psych to become a forensic psych. So you do clinical psych specializing in forensics?

I suppose they laughed because I sounded gullible or something, but I know none of us know everything. That was my point of asking them...like they was going to give me official information or something. That's why I asked on here too.

We have the best forensic psych faculty by light years and we have the only clinicial forensic psych track w/ the clinicial aspect being APA accredited.

Sam Houston State University is an APA-accredited clinical psych ph.d. program with a forensic emphasis (every professor has forensic research/clinical interests). There are several other APA-accredited clinical psych ph.d. programs with concentrations in forensic pysch/psych and law (Fordham, Alabama, etc.)

Sam Houston State University is an APA-accredited clinical psych ph.d. program with a forensic emphasis (every professor has forensic research/clinical interests). There are several other APA-accredited clinical psych ph.d. programs with concentrations in forensic pysch/psych and law (Fordham, Alabama, etc.)

yes I am aware of that

my statement was referring to the Alliant campuses

sorry if i was not clear

You have to become a clinical psychologist to become a forensic psychologist. Yes there are many of them that make good money working in the prisons, but incase you are unaware of the California financial crisis then most people know that those jobs at the Corrections Dept are not expanding. They haven't been cut back... yet. Many of my professors at Fresno State are practicing forensic psychologists, the ones who are part time and work for the prison system are all awaiting a potential pink slip.

I believe the salary for pure clinical psychologists has gone down on average over the last few years. mainly due to oversaturation of the field. I could be wrong tho.

Not sure why a group in an undergrad psychology club would all "laugh at you." Thats pretty rude and arrogant.

One thing you have to understand is that Alliant is a business, they are trying to sell you on a product. Is their product bad? Not necessarily. Personally, I would not be a part of the Alliant forensic psych dept unless it was the one located in Fresno. We have the best forensic psych faculty by light years and we have the only clinicial forensic psych track w/ the clinicial aspect being APA accredited. Their APA internship placement is not bad overall and from what their instructors tell me... is 100% for the top 25% of the class.

Your education is what you make of it. Some ppl gripe that Alliants class sizes are too large, which is true, it doesn't have the small classroom feel when each class has 10-40 students in it. It can also be hard to get a dissertation committee that is really dedicated to helping you, but thats not to say that it can't be done. If you want it badly enough, you will get it. Yes there have been people to go to their program and not do well, but there have been many to go through it and do well. Those who did not do well, probably have more to blame than the program itself.

Agreed! I think it's great that you're interested in forensic psych, however, when and if you attend such seminars or presentations, try and remain a critical observer. There are many myths and misconceptions surrounding the field of forensic psych (e.g. what it actually is, money, type of employment). As others have said, any clinical specialization (e.g. forensics, psych/law) is preceded by training in clinical psychology.

Good luck!

Hey everyone!

My name is Caroline- and as you can probably tell by my oh-so-clever user name, my main field of interest is forensic psychology!

Seeing that someone started a thread just on forensics made me all happy inside (weird?), so I figured I'd write my first post. I've never done this thing before- so be easy on me!

Just a few fun facts about my background:
-I'm 23, and a graduate student in general psychology (w/ a forensic track) on LI, NY (after trying the law school thing and realizing that it wasnt for me at alllll-- too much law and order SVU made me think forensic psych and law were one in the same- take my word for it- they arent!!)
-I have been spending the past school year (since the beginning of Summer 09) working in a lab, doing my own independent research alongside a forensic psychologist on child custody evaluations, and completing the normal coursework for a graduate program. I've also interned for a semester at a psychiatric outpatient day clinic, which was quite the experience lol

I;m waiting back to hear from a few more phd programs as to whether or not they decide to reject lil ol' me like the rest of their university counterparts have- but at this point i'm not holding my breath!

Glad to "meet" all of you!!!
Caroline:thumbup:

Agreed! I think it's great that you're interested in forensic psych, however, when and if you attend such seminars or presentations, try and remain a critical observer. There are many myths and misconceptions surrounding the field of forensic psych (e.g. what it actually is, money, type of employment). As others have said, any clinical specialization (e.g. forensics, psych/law) is preceded by training in clinical psychology.

Good luck!

Thanks.

Long time lurker, first time posting. I just received my MA in Forensic Psychology and am currently applying to a Doctoral program. I work in the law enforcement field as a consultant. Figured I'd just chime in on this discussion and say hello.

Just FYI, Forensic Psychology may or may not be a sub-field of Clinical, depending on which psych group you ask. There are Clinicians who work with forensic populations, and Research Psychologists who conduct experiments regarding forensic issues. Dr. Loftus at UC Irvine is an excellent example of the latter. So it is a field that is still being defined if that makes any sense.

My personal interests involve violence prediction, deception detection, cyber criminality, and false confessions (and lots of other stuff). I think ultimately I'd like to get more involved in hostage negotiations or related operations.

Long time lurker, first time posting. I just received my MA in Forensic Psychology and am currently applying to a Doctoral program. I work in the law enforcement field as a consultant. Figured I'd just chime in on this discussion and say hello.

Just FYI, Forensic Psychology may or may not be a sub-field of Clinical, depending on which psych group you ask. There are Clinicians who work with forensic populations, and Research Psychologists who conduct experiments regarding forensic issues. Dr. Loftus at UC Irvine is an excellent example of the latter. So it is a field that is still being defined if that makes any sense.

My personal interests involve violence prediction, deception detection, cyber criminality, and false confessions (and lots of other stuff). I think ultimately I'd like to get more involved in hostage negotiations or related operations.

What program did you do your MA at?

Long time lurker, first time posting. I just received my MA in Forensic Psychology and am currently applying to a Doctoral program. I work in the law enforcement field as a consultant. Figured I'd just chime in on this discussion and say hello.

Just FYI, Forensic Psychology may or may not be a sub-field of Clinical, depending on which psych group you ask. There are Clinicians who work with forensic populations, and Research Psychologists who conduct experiments regarding forensic issues. Dr. Loftus at UC Irvine is an excellent example of the latter. So it is a field that is still being defined if that makes any sense.

My personal interests involve violence prediction, deception detection, cyber criminality, and false confessions (and lots of other stuff). I think ultimately I'd like to get more involved in hostage negotiations or related operations.

Right, I was only referring to the clinical aspect of forensic psych as she seemed particularly interested in clinical work and not research per se.

What program did you do your MA at?

I went to Marymount University near DC. Loved the program.

For those of you who are applying to PhD/PsyD (forensic emphasis) programs this year-where are you applying?

I'm unfortunately waiting on just one acceptance/rejection at this point from John Jay! It's been 3 weeks since the interview.

Is anyone going to APLS this year?

If there are any current students of John Jay's Masters of Forensic psychology program I would love to talk w/ you in PMs.

It would be greatly appreciated

I'm going to APLS! I'm not presenting this year though.

If there are any current students of John Jay's Masters of Forensic psychology program I would love to talk w/ you in PMs.

It would be greatly appreciated

I'm not a current student, but I received my MA from JJ in forensic psych in 2007. So, if you have any questions about the program-I would be happy to answer them.

Long time lurker, first time posting. I just received my MA in Forensic Psychology and am currently applying to a Doctoral program. I work in the law enforcement field as a consultant. Figured I'd just chime in on this discussion and say hello.
.

What exactly do you do as a consultant in the law enforcement field?? Sounds like an exciting job!! I'm currently expecting to be rejected from my last two hopes (john jay and u north texas), so i'm looking to find out more about jobs i can get with my masters until i apply again next year! Any insight is obviously beyond appreciated!!

I'm going to APLS! I'm not presenting this year though.

is APLS the one in San Fran?

is APLS the one in San Fran?

No, it's in Vancouver BC. Which is why I'm not going :( But I am going to AAPL in October.

ohh yeah that is a trip lol.. where is the one in october?? the one in san fran i was talking about is the american college of forensic psychology.. forensicpsychology.org- my professor/mentor is presenting there so i may go- he said it is a great oppurtunity to network- too bad its close to 1k round trip:(

What exactly do you do as a consultant in the law enforcement field?? Sounds like an exciting job!! I'm currently expecting to be rejected from my last two hopes (john jay and u north texas), so i'm looking to find out more about jobs i can get with my masters until i apply again next year! Any insight is obviously beyond appreciated!!

I used to say, "I could tell you what I do, but then I'd have to kill you." Now I say, "I could tell you what I do, but then I'd have to bill you." I've been in the field for 12 years, but only recently got the Master's to boost my skills in criminal behavior analysis. Having the job beforehand really helps, not to mention that work paid for most of my grad school tuition. Just having a Master's and no work experience is tough. If you are banking on just a MA, try to at least get a relevant internship in law enforcement.

I guess this really isnt a question, I just need some clarification.

I went to this Forensic Psychology Workshop at my school last week; the presenters were Alliant University. The main guy speaking is a former clinical psychologists, a current full time professor, a part time forensic psychologist, and he still does counseling on the weekend at his own practice...allegedly. I'm not syaing he was lying, I just quit believing him after he said some suspect stuff.

Basically he said that Forensic Psychologists can start off making 80K working in a prison. Then after a few years make up to 100K. He said he didn't know any clinical psychologists who made 100K, which I know is true. He said the job of a Forensic psychologist is recession proof and that he doesnt know any forensic psy whove been affected, but know many clinical who have. He made Forensic psy sound so good and even better when he mentioned those figures. I went to psychology club the next day and told everybody and they laughed and said Clinical makes more than Forensic. I went and tried to google information, but didn't find much.


Im really interested in Forensic, but leaning more towards Clinical. I just want to know if there is any truth to his claims. I would think they make about as much as clinical; yes or no? Are there more jobs available in Forensics? Etc. Sorry for the long post.

I think long term that clinical psychologists might be able to make more money at the upper end. However starting pay, forensic can make more than clinical and vice versa. This is especially true for doctorate level internship positions in clinical and counseling psy. The Bureau of Prisons have internships at the doc level and they start at $50k which is an insane amount of money for an internship. It seems normal internships average around $25-$30k.

I know if you can work for federal or state prisons as a psychologist the starting pay is around $65k-$70k + government benefits. These are more clinical or counseling positions. On the flip side when you start private practice clinical/counseling psychology, you'll be lucky if you can eat the first year or two.

However I know that forensic psychologists can do tons of evaluations and if you want to make money in psychology, evaluations and assessment is definitely one way to go. Sometimes states will hire forensic psychologists to do independent evaluations for various prisoners for trial and eligibility.

There is no hard and fast rule here. Clinical may have some advantages, (familiarity and flexibility) but I'm sure there are some very rich forensic psychologists out there too.

A forensic psychologist is a clinical psychologist who decides to work in the forensic setting. The licensure is the same, the requirements are the same, though the population is a sub-set of the more "general" clinical population.

A forensic psychologist is a clinical psychologist who decides to work in the forensic setting. The licensure is the same, the requirements are the same, though the population is a sub-set of the more "general" clinical population.

Actually, this is not completely true. Most people think this because of a lot of bad information from the media. A "Clinical Forensic Psychologist" is a clinician who does forensic work, and is (usually) a licensed clinical psychologists. These folks are the ones doing evals, doing rehab, etc. However, there are other types of forensic psychologists, including research-based forensic psychologists, operational forensic psychologists, and others. They are usually PhD types and are not licensed. These professional refer to themselves as "Forensic Psychologists" as opposed to "Clinical Forensic Psychologists" to differentiate from their licensed counterparts.

Actually, this is not completely true. Most people think this because of a lot of bad information from the media. A "Clinical Forensic Psychologist" is a clinician who does forensic work, and is (usually) a licensed clinical psychologists. These folks are the ones doing evals, doing rehab, etc. However, there are other types of forensic psychologists, including research-based forensic psychologists, operational forensic psychologists, and others. They are usually PhD types and are not licensed. These professional refer to themselves as "Forensic Psychologists" as opposed to "Clinical Forensic Psychologists" to differentiate from their licensed counterparts.

still basically a semantic argument you are making here, especially since they could be clinically trained and just not have their license in that state, clinically trained and choose not to be licensed because its unnecessary, or they can be experimentally trained and not clinically, but is still all the basic semantic argument...

you would be hard pressed to find a non-academic job in a forensic setting that doesnt require a clinical license...

A forensic psychologist is a clinical psychologist who decides to work in the forensic setting. The licensure is the same, the requirements are the same, though the population is a sub-set of the more "general" clinical population.

hayasa is right. abpp forensic psych diplomates are probably all clinically trained, but a lot of social psych phd's work in forensic psychology (gary wells for one). john jay, the biggest forensic program, offers two phd tracks - experimental and clinical.

I guess this really isnt a question, I just need some clarification.



[B][COLOR=deepskyblue]Basically he said that Forensic Psychologists can start off making 80K working in a prison. Then after a few years make up to 100K. He said he didn't know any clinical psychologists who made 100K, which I know is true. He said the job of a Forensic psychologist is recession proof and that he doesnt know any forensic psy whove been affected, but know many clinical who have. He made Forensic psy sound so good and even better when he mentioned those figures. I went to psychology club the next day and told everybody and they laughed and said Clinical makes more than Forensic. I went and tried to google information, but didn't find much.


Im really interested in Forensic, but leaning more towards Clinical. I just want to know if there is any truth to his claims. I would think they make about as much as clinical; yes or no? Are there more jobs available in Forensics? Etc. Sorry for the long post.

- in California, psychologists start off making $80 in prisons/state hospitals, yes. You do not have to be a forensic psychologist to get a job there.
- Forensic psychology is pretty recession-proof. There will always be a demand for court-ordered assessments. Trouble is, they don't pay great.
- Forensic psychologists have much more earning power than clinical psychologists. Forensic and neuro is where the money is.

Actually, this is not completely true. Most people think this because of a lot of bad information from the media. A "Clinical Forensic Psychologist" is a clinician who does forensic work, and is (usually) a licensed clinical psychologists. These folks are the ones doing evals, doing rehab, etc. However, there are other types of forensic psychologists, including research-based forensic psychologists, operational forensic psychologists, and others. They are usually PhD types and are not licensed. These professional refer to themselves as "Forensic Psychologists" as opposed to "Clinical Forensic Psychologists" to differentiate from their licensed counterparts.

:confused:

If you ask 100 psychologists what a "Forensic Psychologist" does, at least 98 of them will describe clinical work, primarily assessment, within the forensic setting. I'm not sure that is the fault of the media. It is definitely an issue of semantics.

Actually, this is not completely true. Most people think this because of a lot of bad information from the media. A "Clinical Forensic Psychologist" is a clinician who does forensic work, and is (usually) a licensed clinical psychologists. These folks are the ones doing evals, doing rehab, etc. However, there are other types of forensic psychologists, including research-based forensic psychologists, operational forensic psychologists, and others. They are usually PhD types and are not licensed. These professional refer to themselves as "Forensic Psychologists" as opposed to "Clinical Forensic Psychologists" to differentiate from their licensed counterparts.

Others differentiate by indicating they do research in Psychology & Law and avoid the term 'forensic' entirely. From spending a bit of time with a social psychology professor who studies psychology & law issues, I've understood 'psychology and law' to be the blanket term to describe anyone who works at the intersection of psych & law (including correctional psychology), but 'forensic' implies clinical. Of course, no doubt this distinction isn't shared by all.

A forensic psychologist is a clinical psychologist who decides to work in the forensic setting. The licensure is the same, the requirements are the same, though the population is a sub-set of the more "general" clinical population.

I've seen some schools (mine included) where there are two different options in forensics ... PhD/PsyD in Clinical Psychology with the emphasis in forensics or ... a PhD in Forensic Psychology. Like you said before, I think this is all a semantics game.

Others differentiate by indicating they do research in Psychology & Law and avoid the term 'forensic' entirely. From spending a bit of time with a social psychology professor who studies psychology & law issues, I've understood 'psychology and law' to be the blanket term to describe anyone who works at the intersection of psych & law (including correctional psychology), but 'forensic' implies clinical. Of course, no doubt this distinction isn't shared by all.

It gets even more complicated than that! The Psych and Law is/isn't the same thing as Forensic Psychology is one of the bigger arguments in the field. By the "broad definition" of Forensic Psychology, the areas studied match the definition of Psych and Law, though this is more the opinion of the psych academic community. On the other hand, most clinical psychologists (and counseling, schools, etc.) do consider Forensic Psych to be a subset of clinical - an opinion defined as the "narrow definition." Problem with the "narrow definition" is that it neglects the research components of Forensic Psych and generally implies only "applied" psychology in a clinical setting. Semantics or not, this is one of those things that has folks at APA all spun up. And don't get me started on Forensic Social Work or Forensic Psychiatry...

Also, if you are really interested in professional publications regarding Forensic Psychology (and what it is or isn't), do a search for Dr. Kirk Heilbrun's articles in some academic journals. Good reading...

Also, if you are really interested in professional publications regarding Forensic Psychology (and what it is or isn't), do a search for Dr. Kirk Heilbrun's articles in some academic journals. Good reading...

I second that. Also, I would check out David DeMatteo's article about best practices (he is also from Drexel).

I received my masters degree in 2007 (forensic psych) from John Jay College as well. While there, I interned at Riker's Island, which was fascinating work. I haven't worked in the field since I graduated though, due to personal circumstances at the time.

I've since re-located to NJ and am hoping to get back into the field/prison system. I've started looking into what is available for master's level work and if there is available licensing here.

Nice to see there are lots of us out there.

I received my masters degree in 2007 (forensic psych) from John Jay College as well. While there, I interned at Riker's Island, which was fascinating work. I haven't worked in the field since I graduated though, due to personal circumstances at the time.

I've since re-located to NJ and am hoping to get back into the field/prison system. I've started looking into what is available for master's level work and if there is available licensing here.

Nice to see there are lots of us out there.

If you'd be willing to travel to NYC again, JJ started up a new program-Licensed Forensic Mental Health Counselor. I also graduated from JJ in 07. It's tough competition EC for forensic psych jobs at the MA level.

Good luck!

I've done some searching, but nothing really serious, so forgive me if this has already been posted elsewhere. Anyway, I am wondering what all is entailed in the pre-employment personnel screening for prison internships. Anyone know?

It's funny, because most of what I have learned about forensic psychology in this thread is what the definition is (or that there is lack of one) :laugh:. I applied to a bunch of forensic psych places (Drexel, JJay, Fordham...) and they are all super competitive. I might consider what you guys did and get my MA in forensic psych before i try and get into PhD programs at these places.

Another interesting thought is the JD/PhD programs that are out there. I think Arizona has one and Nebraska definitely does. Did anyone consider that? I would take the LSAT and apply next year if I thought applying to a MORE competitive program was the answer to my troubles!

Hi all! I applied to Clin Psych PhD and Psych PhD programs this year (all with emphases in forensic psych and/or with POI's working in that field) and it looks like I'm going to get rejected from all of them (woo!). I'm starting to think about ways to improve my application for future cycles and was looking for some advice. For some background, I have a BA in psych and a BA in political science. I currently work in the research arena, but my research is not psych related. I don't have publications and don't see that happening any time in the near future, unfortunately.

For those of you with MA's in Forensic Psych or something similar, did you find that it helped you with getting interviews/acceptances to PhD programs? Was it worth the time and cost, in your opinion? Also, if anyone knows of any MA programs still accepting applications for the fall that would be great!:)

Also, would an MA in Criminal Justice be at all useful for pursuing a psych PhD or would I just be wasting my time?

Any general advice in becoming a more competitive applicant is also appreciated!

Thanks guys!

Hi all! I applied to Clin Psych PhD and Psych PhD programs this year (all with emphases in forensic psych and/or with POI's working in that field) and it looks like I'm going to get rejected from all of them (woo!). I'm starting to think about ways to improve my application for future cycles and was looking for some advice. For some background, I have a BA in psych and a BA in political science. I currently work in the research arena, but my research is not psych related. I don't have publications and don't see that happening any time in the near future, unfortunately.

For those of you with MA's in Forensic Psych or something similar, did you find that it helped you with getting interviews/acceptances to PhD programs? Was it worth the time and cost, in your opinion? Also, if anyone knows of any MA programs still accepting applications for the fall that would be great!:)

Also, would an MA in Criminal Justice be at all useful for pursuing a psych PhD or would I just be wasting my time?

Any general advice in becoming a more competitive applicant is also appreciated!

Thanks guys!

<<<<has no training in Forensic or Forensic related fields... either research or practice... I did spend the last two years doing basic science research, getting pubs etc... and apparently that was golden? I think the research experience is far more important than a masters, unless the masters affords you the chance to DO mass amounts of research, otherwise why spend that much? You can find research positions where you can make money

Just my thoughts

<<<<has no training in Forensic or Forensic related fields... either research or practice... I did spend the last two years doing basic science research, getting pubs etc... and apparently that was golden? I think the research experience is far more important than a masters, unless the masters affords you the chance to DO mass amounts of research, otherwise why spend that much? You can find research positions where you can make money

Just my thoughts
I have 2 years of science research as well, yet here I am with lots of rejections :( I don't have any pubs, however, so that might be what my application is lacking.
Thanks for the reply!

I have 2 years of science research as well, yet here I am with lots of rejections :( I don't have any pubs, however, so that might be what my application is lacking.
Thanks for the reply!

2 years of post-graduate science research? or just 2 years of science research at the undergraduate level, because I also spent all 6 years (4 degree, 2 more med school requirements) of my UG doing research that never really produced much was just kind of "experience"

I think the quality of research also matters, when you do post-grad research in a post-bacc type program, you are 40-80 hours a week doing research, not just a couple hours a couple days a week like I did in UG...

2 years of post-graduate science research? or just 2 years of science research at the undergraduate level, because I also spent all 6 years (4 degree, 2 more med school requirements) of my UG doing research that never really produced much was just kind of "experience"

I think the quality of research also matters, when you do post-grad research in a post-bacc type program, you are 40-80 hours a week doing research, not just a couple hours a couple days a week like I did in UG...
Yes, 2 years of post-grad research. I work full-time developing clinical cancer trials. I also had various undergrad research experience doing the usual stuff like summer jobs and data entry in labs. Only some of my undergrad research experience was forensic-related (all of it was psych related), so I figured maybe I was lacking forensic-related research. But clearly that wasn't the case for you, although it sounds like your job is more research intensive than mine. I just wish I could find out what exactly it was that got my applications thrown out!

For those of you with MA's in Forensic Psych or something similar, did you find that it helped you with getting interviews/acceptances to PhD programs? Was it worth the time and cost, in your opinion? Also, if anyone knows of any MA programs still accepting applications for the fall that would be great!:)

Also, would an MA in Criminal Justice be at all useful for pursuing a psych PhD or would I just be wasting my time?


I just finished my MA in Forensic Psych, and I was pretty burned out. Of course, as soon as I graduated, I thought that maybe I should go further because there is just so much to learn. I only applied to one Doc program (PsyD), and I was the only one during orientation with a MA. Most people were right out of undergrad and a few didn't even have a psych BA - I think the expertise coming into a Doc program is really varied. Some schools lop off a year from your Doc if you have a Masters; my program just transfers in the duplicated classes but still requires 5 years. So I guess if you really want to go Doc and know it from the beginning, the MA might be a waste of time.

As far as Crim Justice (I did my undergrad in CJ/Criminology and took several CJ classes as electives in my MA program), there is very little overlap with Forensic Psych - which could be good or bad. You will be more well rounded in the Macro study of crime, but you will not shorten your path to the Doc at all.

If you'd be willing to travel to NYC again, JJ started up a new program-Licensed Forensic Mental Health Counselor. I also graduated from JJ in 07. It's tough competition EC for forensic psych jobs at the MA level.

Good luck!

Thanks so much for this info! I looked into it and they'll transfer all the credits from my MA in Forensic Psych degree to the counseling program. So I'd only have to take 21 credits or so to finish it. That would allow me to get licensed in NJ.

Thanks again!

Quick question - does anyone teach as an adjunt? This was something I was thinking about as well, but have no idea how to go about applying for this.

Quick question - does anyone teach as an adjunt? This was something I was thinking about as well, but have no idea how to go about applying for this.

I teach as an adjunct. You can teach with an MA at any community or junior college. You can also try online programs. Try and research colleges in your area and see what credentials they require. The pay is not great, but it's great experience.

You can teach Psych 101 and maybe some other non-research related courses at a four-year university with a master's in psych, too. Maybe not top tier schools, but I know some at good schools. :)

I have a JD and am completing my PhD in clinical psych. I am not in a forensic program per se, but my advisor is a forensic psychologist and has maintained a lab and program in forensic psych for almost 30 years, so it's actually a great place for me. Our lab focuses on adolescent offenders, specfically adolescent sex offenders. In this state, many of those offenders are statutory offenders (i.e., consensual sex but age difference between offender and partner was the issue). I also do some work with the another program managed by the state supreme court that focuses on child offenders and victims.

Would love to hear from and connect with those of you that are interested in forensic psych.

I am looking into internships with the prisons, but I do not want to end up working there after graduation.....

I have a JD and am completing my PhD in clinical psych. I am not in a forensic program per se, but my advisor is a forensic psychologist and has maintained a lab and program in forensic psych for almost 30 years, so it's actually a great place for me. Our lab focuses on adolescent offenders, specfically adolescent sex offenders. In this state, many of those offenders are statutory offenders (i.e., consensual sex but age difference between offender and partner was the issue). I also do some work with the another program managed by the state supreme court that focuses on child offenders and victims.

Would love to hear from and connect with those of you that are interested in forensic psych.

I am looking into internships with the prisons, but I do not want to end up working there after graduation.....

hm what program? Being juvenile sex offender, I can only think of a few schools that have such populations, but maybe Im missing one. i would be interested to know which

Hi,
I'm asking for my friend but she wanted to know where you can get research experience in forensic psychology. She is applying for her phd next year and has research experience but nothing specific to forensics. Do you know what kind of places offer this kind of experience? Thank You

Calling all forensic psych and law and psych people...

I was thinking that it would be useful to list programs (PhD/PsyD/PhD,JD) that offer a forensic or law concentration or that have faculty that have forensic or psych and law labs. I know that the APLS website has a list, but oftentimes it does not include programs that have forensic faculty with no concentration. If you know of a specific faculty, please share.

I'll start

John Jay College -PhD in Clinical Forensic Psychology
Fordham-PhD in Clinical Psychology-forensic concentration
Drexel-PhD in Clinical Psychology-forensic concentration

Here's the APLS list for those who haven't seen it:
(http://forensicstudies.alliant.edu/)

(http://forensicstudies.alliant.edu/)
Alliant International University (http://forensicstudies.alliant.edu/)(Ph.D. in Forensic Psychology or Psy.D. in Forensic Psychology).
Arizona State University (http://www.asu.edu/jointprograms/lawpsych/) (Law and Psychology J.D./Ph.D. Program).
California State University, Fresno and the University of California, Davis (http://www.csufresno.edu/criminology/degrees_programs/joint_doctorate/index.shtml) (Joint Ph.D. in Forensic and Behavioral Sciences)
Carlos Albizu University in Miami (http://mia.albizu.edu/web/academic_programs/psychology/doctor_of_psychology_in_clinical_psychology.asp) (Psy.D in Clinical Psychology with a concentration in Forensic Psychology)
Chicago School of Professional Psychology (http://www.thechicagoschool.edu/content.cfm/clinical_psychology_doctoral_program_psyd)(Psy.D. in Clinical Psychology with a concentration in Forensic Psychology)
Drexel University (http://www.drexel.edu/coas/psychology/jdphd/) (J.D./Ph.D. or Ph.D. with a concentration in Forensic Psychology)
Forest Institute of Professional Psychology (http://www.forest.edu/) (Psy.D. in Clinical Psychology)
Fordham University (http://www.fordham.edu/academics/programs_at_fordham_/psychology/clinical/) (Clinical PhD with concentration in Forensic Psychology)
Illinois School of Professional Psychology (http://64.205.204.206/pm5/clinical_psych/certificates.asp) (Clinical Psy.D. with concentration in Forensic Psychology)
John Jay College of Criminal Justice-CUNY (http://johnjay.jjay.cuny.edu/forensicPsych) (M.A. or Ph.D.).
Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology (http://www.mspp.edu/academics/degree-programs/psyd/forensics.asp) (Psy.D. with Forensic Psychology Concentration)
Nova Southeastern University (http://www.cps.nova.edu/) (Psy.D. with a concentration in Clinical Forensic Psychology).
Pacific Graduate School of Psychology (http://www.pgsp.edu/program_phd_psyc_and_the_law.php) (joint Ph.D./J.D. [with Golden Gate University School of Law (http://www.ggu.edu/school_of_law/academic_law_programs/jd_program/joint_degrees)]).
Pacific University (http://www.pacificu.edu/spp/clinical/ForensicTrack.cfm) (Psy.D. with an emphasis in Forensic Psychology)
Sam Houston State University (http://www.shsu.edu/%7Epsy_www/phd.htm) (Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology with an emphasis in forensics).
Simon Fraser University (http://www.psyc.sfu.ca/index.php?topic=law) (Ph.D. in Clinical-Forensic Psychology).
University of Alabama (http://psychology.ua.edu/academics/graduate/clinical/psychlaw/home.html) (clinical Ph.D. with a psychology-law concentration).
University of Arizona (http://psychology.arizona.edu/programs/graduate.php) (Clinical Psychology with a Forensic Interest).
University of Illinois at Chicago (http://www.psch.uic.edu/psychlaw.asp) (Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology with Minor in Psychology and Law)
University of Nebraska (http://psycweb.unl.edu/psylaw/) (joint J.D. and Ph.D. or joint J.D. and M.A. in Psychology).
West Virginia University (http://www.as.wvu.edu/psyc/) (Ph.D. in Clinical with emphasis in forensics)
Widener University (http://www.widener.edu/jdpsyd) (J.D./Psy.D. joint degree)




In Canada, University of Saskatchewan also has a number of forensic faculty.

AJustin and I came up with a list a few months ago. There are either forensic/ psych-law concentrations, or a professor doing research in a forensic-related field. Here is our list:

U Arkansas
U North Dakota
U Maine
Eastern Michigan U
Western Michigan U
SUNY Albany
U Cincinnati
Texas A&M
U North Texas
U Houston
Drexel U
U Alabama
Sam Houston State U
Florida State U
U South Florida
NOVA Southeastern U
U Florida
U Nebraska-Lincoln
U Wyoming
West Va U
U Vermont
U Minnesota
U Montana
U Arizona
U Missouri - St. Louis
U Illinois - Chicago
George Mason U
Kent State
U Virginia - Curry
U Utah
U Mississippi
U Oregon

Some of these may be a bit more neuropsych or forensic psych with a prof doing civil compentency work...and because of my secondary interests in trauma/domestic violence, some could be in that, too.

Hope this is helpful!

And I didn't take out the repeats, include non-APA accredited ones (John Jay), ones in Canada (Simon Frasier), or inlcue Psy.D.s...

This is great! Is there a discussion link that led to this list? I would love to gather some more specifics on POI with forensic interests.

Thanks!

In my state, and where I received my master's-they offer a LFMH program. However, they started this program 3 years after I graduated. So does it go by degree or state?

Thanks!

I just graduated with my MA in FMHC from JJC. I believe if you graduated w/ a MA in Forensic Psych from that school you can reenter to take the remainder of the credits in order to graduate with a degree that is licensable.I know a few people in my program did that. Some had graduated a year or two before and came back for I think it comes out to less than a year to take the last few classes so they could get a license in NY state.

Good Luck!

This is great! Is there a discussion link that led to this list? I would love to gather some more specifics on POI with forensic interests.

Thanks!

Are you referring to my and AJustin's list? We actually made the list on the phone/internet, I believe. I would just visit the websites of the schools on our list, the post above mine, and the ones mentioned in the Insider's Guide, and then weed out the ones you don't fit well with, then contact the profs (I'd do this in the summer, or early fall, but definitely after April 15!) to see if they're taking students, and then apply to as many as you can afford.

If you'd be willing to travel to NYC again, JJ started up a new program-Licensed Forensic Mental Health Counselor. I also graduated from JJ in 07. It's tough competition EC for forensic psych jobs at the MA level.

Good luck!

The only problem is with that program right now is that it is not APA accredited yet. They are still working on that. So if you want to get licensed in a state outside of NY state you need to make sure you meet the requirements for each state you are looking to get licensed in.

I just graduated with my MA in FMHC from JJC. I believe if you graduated w/ a MA in Forensic Psych from that school you can reenter to take the remainder of the credits in order to graduate with a degree that is licensable.I know a few people in my program did that. Some had graduated a year or two before and came back for I think it comes out to less than a year to take the last few classes so they could get a license in NY state.

Good Luck!



How did you like it??

So for all you lucky forensic and psych/law peps that were accepted this year-where are ya going?

Congrats!!!

Azusa Pacific offers a clinical PsyD with a forensic track...

I'm thinking of choosing that since I'm already accepted into the program

Bumping this thread because I have a question...

I have been offered a spot at Sam Houston, which is a Clinical Psychology PhD program. Although it is Clinical, it is highly forensic. This is my main area of interest by far, however I'm worried that attending a program like SHSU which is soooo forensic could pidgeon-hole me in to only that area and not allow to me get enough of a general education - which I know is a plus for many internships/post-docs.

Have any current SHSU students or students in other mainly forensic programs found this to be true?

This is a great thread! I wanted to also add that people differentiate between a forensic and correctional psychologist. Forensic psychologist mainly do evaluations (competency, risk, etc.) and correctional psychologist provide treatment (individuals, groups, assessments, etc.) within a correctional system. I think the best approach to becoming a well-respected forensic psychologist is to learn how to be an excellent clinical psychologist!

Bumping this thread because I have a question...

I have been offered a spot at Sam Houston, which is a Clinical Psychology PhD program. Although it is Clinical, it is highly forensic. This is my main area of interest by far, however I'm worried that attending a program like SHSU which is soooo forensic could pidgeon-hole me in to only that area and not allow to me get enough of a general education - which I know is a plus for many internships/post-docs.

Have any current SHSU students or students in other mainly forensic programs found this to be true?

It is definitely worth talking to them about in more depth. Most clinical programs will provide a good generalist basis during your first year or two before getting into the more specific work.

Just wanted to add, I am interested in forensics too, but am going about it completely backwards. After working in a forensic private practice for 2 years and speaking with the forensic psychologist, I decided to get a general phD and find my own emphasis/focus based on professor match with a forensic research interest and forensic outplacement opportunities.... in counseling phD programs. So therefore, I personally believe forensics does not equal clinical, as it can be done in many ways.

On a sidenote, I have a general MA in Mental Health Counseling and haven't had any problem working in the forensic population without any forensics courses or background. In my opinion, its just a choice of population to work with, just have to do more independent studies and research.

Bumping this thread because I have a question...

I have been offered a spot at Sam Houston, which is a Clinical Psychology PhD program. Although it is Clinical, it is highly forensic. This is my main area of interest by far, however I'm worried that attending a program like SHSU which is soooo forensic could pidgeon-hole me in to only that area and not allow to me get enough of a general education - which I know is a plus for many internships/post-docs.

Have any current SHSU students or students in other mainly forensic programs found this to be true?

Went through this too. Look, I would NEVER say anything bad about that program, they have some of the better forensic faculty. But I chose not to go there A) I dont like Huntsville, and B) you won't get a particularly great clinical training and do run the risk of being pidgin holed... the same problem arises at John Jay. They clearly attract phenomenal faculty, for forensic, but have trouble attracting other specialties.

I pose this question to you... what if you find out you don't like forensic? If you don't have access to other fields of work you couldn't ever learn something that you do like. Makes it hard to find your way...

I guess we all don't have a sense of where else you got in so only you can make this decision... but anecdotally speaking, I chose a solid clinical program that had two quality forensic faculty.

AJ

It is definitely worth talking to them about in more depth. Most clinical programs will provide a good generalist basis during your first year or two before getting into the more specific work.

This would be a good point, assuming that programs told the perfect truth. Of course any program will say they have quality general training... its their job to say that, APA wouldnt accredit if they didnt... but how good is that general training?? well...

I felt the same way when looking at SHSU. It's a great program, but I felt it was too specific and wouldn't give me the broad training that I think will make me a better psychologist.

This would be a good point, assuming that programs told the perfect truth. Of course any program will say they have quality general training... its their job to say that, APA wouldnt accredit if they didnt... but how good is that general training?? well...

This would be a good point, assuming that programs told the perfect truth. Of course any program will say they have quality general training... its their job to say that, APA wouldnt accredit if they didnt... but how good is that general training?? well...

And this has been my issue. When I asked about this in the interview they said it would be absolutely no problem, but of course they're going to say that. I also asked what kind of settings they conduct their practicum in, there were no non-forensic sites. The reason this really concerns me is that I feel not having a varied experience will not only make me less desirable upon internship, but also not allow me to be fully formed as a general clinician.

I know that forensic psych is what I want to do, I've been working in the area for the last few years at a masters level, so part of me feels like it wouldn't be a big deal. However, I just can't shake the feeling that I'm going to be limiting myself by attending a program that is so specific in its general focus - if that makes any sense.

:)

AJustin and I came up with a list a few months ago. There are either forensic/ psych-law concentrations, or a professor doing research in a forensic-related field. Here is our list:

U Arkansas
U North Dakota
U Maine
Eastern Michigan U
Western Michigan U
SUNY Albany
U Cincinnati
Texas A&M
U North Texas
U Houston
Drexel U
U Alabama
Sam Houston State U
Florida State U
U South Florida
NOVA Southeastern U
U Florida
U Nebraska-Lincoln
U Wyoming
West Va U
U Vermont
U Minnesota
U Montana
U Arizona
U Missouri - St. Louis
U Illinois - Chicago
George Mason U
Kent State
U Virginia - Curry
U Utah
U Mississippi
U Oregon

Some of these may be a bit more neuropsych or forensic psych with a prof doing civil compentency work...and because of my secondary interests in trauma/domestic violence, some could be in that, too.

Hope this is helpful!

And I didn't take out the repeats, include non-APA accredited ones (John Jay), ones in Canada (Simon Frasier), or inlcue Psy.D.s...

You can also consider applying to funded generalist Clin PhD Programs with part-time law school programs and create your own JD/PhD degree path, with approval of your adviser/department....

University of North Dakota's Clinical PhD program has a lot of faculty with forensic research interests (plus a Masters Forensic program)

Has anyone had any experience with UND's online forensic masters? Or even their M.S. on campus option? Thank you! :D

Has anyone had any experience with UND's online forensic masters? Or even their M.S. on campus option? Thank you! :D

I'd strongly advise against any online program, as they are not well received by the vast majority of people in the field. As for "Forensic" MA/MS degress...I'd want to talk to people in the field who graduated from the program. "Forensic psychology" is meant to be a sub-set of Clinical Psychology, so I'd really wonder what makes up the training.

Hey Everyone,

I'm just recently looking into the field of forensic psych stuff.... and i know i could always do a clinical or counseling program and just focus on forensics later on as others have mentioned.... but i was wondering if some of my areas of research would be considered forensic psych? i don't really know how things get put into the categories so just looking for input.....

i'm interested in ....psychological affects of mass imprisonment , family affects of incarceration on children, programs that prepare offenders for re-entry finding jobs, programs for juveniles to prevent them from re-offending, prisoners rights/empowerment to better themselves while they are there and find a purpose

another area i am interested in that i have no idea where it would fall prob more clinical/counseling is prevention/intervention programs for juveniles to help them cope with stress and anger management, looking at hopelessness about their future and trying to change their thinking to be more hopeful about the future --- this would be kind of like preventing teens from getting into the prison system at all, but i guess also with juvenile delinquents possibly

Hi, i'd like to ask if anyone here have attended UND or Roger Williams Masters in Forensic Psy & what are your views about these 2 Universities and their courses.

Thank You!:D

I guess this really isnt a question, I just need some clarification.

I went to this Forensic Psychology Workshop at my school last week; the presenters were Alliant University. The main guy speaking is a former clinical psychologists, a current full time professor, a part time forensic psychologist, and he still does counseling on the weekend at his own practice...allegedly. I'm not syaing he was lying, I just quit believing him after he said some suspect stuff.

Basically he said that Forensic Psychologists can start off making 80K working in a prison. Then after a few years make up to 100K. He said he didn't know any clinical psychologists who made 100K, which I know is true. He said the job of a Forensic psychologist is recession proof and that he doesnt know any forensic psy whove been affected, but know many clinical who have. He made Forensic psy sound so good and even better when he mentioned those figures. I went to psychology club the next day and told everybody and they laughed and said Clinical makes more than Forensic. I went and tried to google information, but didn't find much.


Im really interested in Forensic, but leaning more towards Clinical. I just want to know if there is any truth to his claims. I would think they make about as much as clinical; yes or no? Are there more jobs available in Forensics? Etc. Sorry for the long post.

Alliant will cost you about 150-200K and many of their programs don't have good reputations in the field. Forensic and clincial psychologists don't make enough money to pay off 200K in loans. We are not earning MD salaries. I think forensic psychologists probably make as much as clinical psychologists overall. Most people practicing forensic psychology are clinical psychologists. You don't need a specialized degree for it.

The median income for clincial psychologists (this includes those doing forensic work) is anywhere from 65K-80K according to salary surveys. Nobody in our field starts at 80K. This is extremely rare for a first job.

The median income for clincial psychologists (this includes those doing forensic work) is anywhere from 65K-80K according to salary surveys. Nobody in our field starts at 80K. This is extremely rare for a first job.

I wouldn't say $80k is extremely rare, though it also isn't common. Forensics is one area where it is possible, particularly if you do a bit of work on the side. The competition is stiff, so securing an offer for $80k will require you to be better than average. If you work for the BOP, you'll start anywhere from GS-11 ($60k), GS-12 ($70k-ish), to GS-13 ($84k), depending on locality adjustment. To be a GS-13, you'd need to be at least 1 year post-license.