Is it true that some schools in the Carribbean don't require MCAT scores? If so... what is the percentage of their grads getting back into the United States?

Moving to the International Forum...

But the trick is not getting admitted to the schools, it is passing the courses and the boards.

There is no free ride. The top school, SGU, has required the MCAT for a long time. Ross has started to require it too. That is one reason that SGU has a very low flunk out rate and a 90% pass rate on the USMLE.

just wondering: how well do SGU and ROSS students place in neurology?

neurology is a very noncompetitive field and is full of IMG's. you should be able to match.

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable applying to a school that didn't not require MCAT.

can someone please explain what happens after you finish your 4th year in medical school? I don't understand how long residencies are.

Originally posted by busupshot83
can someone please explain what happens after you finish your 4th year in medical school? I don't understand how long residencies are.

Depends on what you wish to specialize in. Residencies last anywhere from 3 to 5+ years. The years after 5 are generally for fellowships (ie, additional specialist training).

Originally posted by busupshot83
can someone please explain what happens after you finish your 4th year in medical school? I don't understand how long residencies are.

For a quick overview of specialties + res times:

http://www.aamc.org/students/cim/specialties.htm

For a more thorough list of res time for all programs:

http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/srch/1,2667,,00.html

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable applying to a school that didn't not require MCAT.

You say that because you've been indoctrinated by the American system into thinking that MCAT scores are a huge factor in your suitability for medicine.

There are examples of excellent Canadian schools that do not require the MCAT, such as U of Ottawa and McMaster. The MCAT is not the end-all and be-all of medschool-worthiness. In fact, Canadian schools in general de-emphasize the importance of the MCAT in the admissions process. Typically the applicant need only achieve some minimum score (say, all 9s) and anything above that won't get you accepted any faster. And these schools are HIGHLY competitive to get into.

As for the Caribbeans, well they do it because they're not picky about who they accept - getting in is easy, getting out is not. What I'm saying is don't put so much emphasis on MCAT.

Originally posted by Meat Cookie
In fact, Canadian schools in general de-emphasize the importance of the MCAT in the admissions process. Typically the applicant need only achieve some minimum score (say, all 9s) and anything above that won't get you accepted any faster. And these schools are HIGHLY competitive to get into.


While MCAT is 'de-emphasized' in one sense, this is still an example of the importance of MCAT in the selection process.

MCAT is used by many (and most US) schools b.c. it's the only available standardized comparison among students. It's also a good predictor of how med students do on USMLE I (science). It's also somewhat correlated to IQ. Many foreign schools do require MCAT (or, e.g., UMAT) for applicants, and weigh their scores more than other factors precisely b.c. it's harder for the schools to objectively assess applicants (e.g., they don't have databases of all colleges, their relative grading systems, a history of their profs' LORs, etc.).

I'm not inferring anyone meant otherwise, but while there are other ways to get good students, there are merits to standardized tests (similar arguments apply to the SAT).

-pitman

Originally posted by busupshot83
I personally wouldn't feel comfortable applying to a school that didn't not require MCAT.


As most schools in the world do not use mcat then by all means go where you feel comfortable.

there are several schools in the USA, that dont require the mcats. It isnt used as a guage by may schools....
would you "be uncomfortable" about getting admitted to hopkins?
So you should be careful about granting undue legitimacy to the MCAT. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying the MCAT is illegitimate, but I am saying that you shouldnt measure the worth of a school, based upon their requirement of an MCAT.
The MCAT is/was intended only for us and canadian med schools. The rest of the world doesnt use the mcats. Lately a couple of the caribbean (wannabee a us school) med schools have instituted the " we need the mcat" policy. These schools try to emulate the us schools as much as they can.
In conclusion, never judge a school by the tests they require you to take.

Originally posted by dimsum
there are several schools in the USA, that dont require the mcats. It isnt used as a guage by may schools....
would you "be uncomfortable" about getting admitted to hopkins? So you should be careful about granting undue legitimacy to the MCAT. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying the MCAT is illegitimate, but I am saying that you shouldnt measure the worth of a school, based upon their requirement of an MCAT.
The MCAT is/was intended only for us and canadian med schools. The rest of the world doesnt use the mcats. Lately a couple of the caribbean (wannabee a us school) med schools have instituted the " we need the mcat" policy. These schools try to emulate the us schools as much as they can.
In conclusion, never judge a school by the tests they require you to take.

This thread is old, but ill reply anyhow...

Never once did I "measure the worth of a school based on the MCAT requirement." I did, however, state, in hypothetical terms, how I would feel about applying to Caribbean schools that don't require the MCAT, when I know that I would want to return to practice in the U.S. Although my mentality of being "uncomfortable" may be judgemental, that's how I would feel given that situation, and nobody can change my mentality. Let me explain why...

I'm not a freak of Caribbean med-school statistics... I'm just a regular joe. And that being said, if you were to line up a bunch of Caribbean med-school admissions requirements, because my intentions would be to ultimately gain U.S. residency, I would honesty lean towards schools that require the MCAT (simply because I know that these schools, if they are really "emulating" U.S. med-schools, should prepare me to gain residencies in the U.S.). Does that mean that all schools that emulate U.S. schools will get you in? Of course not, but at first glance, a person like me, that doesn't know a rat's ***** about Caribbean schools, honestly would think that way. Obviously, because the MCAT is required in the U.S. (that's where I live), the average American is going to be geared towards schools that require that too... that's all they know. In my situation, that's all I know, and that's what I would feel uncomfortable with.

So in conclusion...

Did you see me state "oh, this school doesn't require the MCAT so it sucks." No, I'm telling you how I would think (hint: "I"). Now if you disagree with my mentality... I really don't care. I don't even know you. And the last time I checked, you don't know me.

pce,

bus.

Based on your questions and responses its pretty obvious that you ARE a regular joe. i was explaining the situation as i would, to a regular joe.
There's no reason to get all worked up over this though. i wasnt trying to insult you, just trying to enlighten you to the situation as it stands with the mcat and medical schools..

Originally posted by dimsum
Based on your questions and responses its pretty obvious that you ARE a regular joe. i was explaining the situation as i would, to a regular joe.
There's no reason to get all worked up over this though. i wasnt trying to insult you, just trying to enlighten you to the situation as it stands with the mcat and medical schools..

I don't ever get worked up over anything on the internet, specially not SDN. Your "enlightenment" challenged my mentality, so I responded. No offense taken. That's the whole point of these forums... right? I could of just not responded, but what fun is that? :meanie: :laugh:

Please post all US schools that dn't require MCAT's. I d not have a copy of MSAR

Thank you

there are about 15+ schools, of which hopkins is the most obvious one, and has been this way for atleast the past 15 years that i'm aware of...
in regard to the entire list, i'd suggest you look it up in peterson's or some other printed guide... i dont have the latest version, so i wouldnt be able to give you the complete list..

I too recal Hopkins as having dropped the MCAT but it looks like they again ask for it. Have a look at their site.

I am gathering info to counter media stories about offshore schools not requiring mcat thus being of inferior quality.

It reminds me of the cold war.


If you or anyone has access to usa schools list that don't require mcat it would be of great benefit to everyone on this forum.

A better question is..How many applicants who did not take the MCAT actually got accepted to schools which do not require it?

Originally posted by ny skindoc
A better question is..How many applicants who did not take the MCAT actually got accepted to schools which do not require it?

good job :clap:

I found this e-book on Caribbean medical schools... just thought I would share for those interested. I don't know how accurate it is, but what the heck:

http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/

Just thought I would share with all of you some info I found during some research I was doing. It has minimal bearing on the current conversation, but it is somewhat relevant.

Most caribb schools try to follow the LCME standards of medical education in an attempt to emulate US schools. However, according to Barbara Barzanski of the LCME, whiether or not a school uses the MCAT as an admission standard does not affect their accredditation at all. In other words, US schools could completely eliminate the MCAT as a requirement and still maintain US accreditation. SO, the fact that some caribb or caribb like schools do not require students to have taken the MCAT does not neccesarily indicate a lesser quality of education.

Originally posted by bts4202
Just thought I would share with all of you some info I found during some research I was doing. It has minimal bearing on the current conversation, but it is somewhat relevant.

Most caribb schools try to follow the LCME standards of medical education in an attempt to emulate US schools. However, according to Barbara Barzanski of the LCME, whiether or not a school uses the MCAT as an admission standard does not affect their accredditation at all. In other words, US schools could completely eliminate the MCAT as a requirement and still maintain US accreditation. SO, the fact that some caribb or caribb like schools do not require students to have taken the MCAT does not neccesarily indicate a lesser quality of education.

good stuff bts