Are there any prior service members or army HPSP's or army dentists out there who know of "cool" opportunities in the army for dentists? For example: Special Forces or Flight surgeon opportunities? I heard of the army starting a dental flight surgeon program where dentists can go to flight school if they are being assigned to an aviation brigade , but I have only heard of one or two dentists actually doing it and am concerned that the program has been cancelled.

Also - do any Army folks out there know much of the 75th Ranger Regiment? If I remember correctly they have a surgeon and a PA, but I do not believe they have any dental officers (since my "non-military" experiences with the regiment in the 90's), unlike Special Forces Groups.

Please PM me with any responses.

I don't know the answers to your questions but I would like to hear the answers. So if someone knows please share with all of us.

Hey El Cid, I'm applying for the Navy HPSP right now. If you go to www.dentaltown.com there are many dentists who've done dentistry in all three branches of the military. Click on forums, message boards, and then dental school. The password to get into dentaltown is "occlusal."

ElCid-
I got out of the Army last May from doing a three-year HPSP. I've talked with Dan before about some of my experiences. One of my buddies in my AEGD residency went into Special Forces after he finished the residency. Other than that, most field dentists are attached to a brigade. This would mean that they would serve approx 3500 soldiers. The physician and PA serve a battalion which would be considerably less, hence 5-6+ MDs out there per DDS/DMD.
When I was at Fort Lewis, some of the Rangers were there. there was no dentist attached to them as they were too small of a group to probably need one. They can see a dentist at a BSA (Brigade Support Area). That doesn't mean there isn't one, but I would really doubt that the Rangers get one.
My buddy with SF went and did some dentistry in Thailand for a bit. It was more a humanitarian mission which the SF did.
As for aviation brigades, you might be able to be attached to one of them, but I would imagine that flight school would be a no-go.
Anyway, if you have any specific questions, I'll be hapy to try to answer them.

Jason Miller, DMD

What are the terms of service for a dentist??

How long do you have to serve?

8 year total obligation:

combination of active-duty and inactive reserve.

Minimum 3 year active duty requirement.

For a 4 year HPSP ---> 4 years AD, 4 years IAR

3 Year HPSP ---> 3 years AD, 5 years IAR

1 year HPSP ---> 3 years AD, 5 years IAR

4 Year HPSP, 4year ROTC ---> 8 years AD, 0 Years IAR

Inactive reserve means you're on a list somewhere and CAN call you up. Odds of it are extremely slim (WWIII). No weekends, no two weeks, no pay, no benefits.

My dental school counted as IAR as soon as you raise your hand.
Since I signed my obligation on 26FEB97, my IAR obligation (and total obligation) ends on 26FEB05.

Jason

Wait? Does the time you are in dental school on the HPSP count as your IAR time? If so, does that mean that after you have done your 4 years active duty then youre completely done with the 8 year commitment?

Sure.... it all depends on when you sign your contract. AT THAT POINT you belong to Uncle Sam. Sure, they give you a 2LT rank and tell you to study hard as they need you more as a dentist than a Medical Service officer (the 2LT rank). For example, you sign a contract 25May04 before you go to dental school, do four years, start your Officer Basic on 2JUL08 (this is the FIRST day of your THREE year AD obligation), you are eligible to leave the Army on 2JUL12 with no further committment.
If you read the contract, your obligation is for 8 years. It starts the day you sign... whenever that is. 8 Years to the day you can leave the Army... as long as you have your three years of active duty COMPLETED.

Jason

jmill0 PMed you

jmill0,

So you start your officer basic training AFTER dental school? Do you have to do regular basic (you know, the basic training where you run all day, get yelled at a lot)?

Also, I know you said that when you are in D-School you still have to give a lot of your free time the the military. For example, the information I've seen says that when you are not in dental school you must give 45 days of time of active duty. What if your dental school only has a summer break of 30 days?

Can you tell me a little bit about how you spend the 45 day active service time? Is it just in a local clinic? Or do you have to travel to a base?

I know you can list your top 3 choices of where you want to be placed. Could you also tell me what the chances are of getting placed in one of your top 3 locations? Because I've heard stories about how people end up noplace near where they requested.

Thanks for all of your help!!!!!!!!

SDDDS-
You have the option to complete your Officer Basic while in dental school if your schedule allows. If not, you complete it in San Antonio (for the Army) the summer after graduation. If you do decide to complete it while in school, you can go directly to a post.
Officer Basic for dentists is with other health professionals. Doctors, dentists, nurses, pyschologists as well as some ROTC people that are going to be Medical Service Officers complete the course with you. It isn't ANYTHING like they show you in the movies. Sure I had to get up early and do some running and push-ups, but there wasn't anyone yelling in my face at all. Pretty much they're training you not to look like a fool while you wear the uniform. If I can do it... anyone can!
While in school, I gave no time to the military. I was still IN the military, but didn't do anything besides collect a stipend check every month and send them some receipts for school. In the summers I had to do the 45 days of "active training". If your school schedule doens't allow for it, you just get paid a lot more for going to school. (You're still put on active training on the books, but complete it at school.) Anyway, if you DO have the opportunity to complete the ADT (Active Duty Training), I would do it. I passed on it between my 2nd and 3rd years and studied. I DID do it between my 3rd and 4th years. Lucky me, I went on a 45 day vacation to a post in Hawaii on the governments dime. Flew me over there, gave me a hotel and a car and paid me pretty well. I worked pretty much as an expanded duty dental assistant while I was over there, but had lots of free time to see Hawaii.
As for the "wish list"... Some people have good luck and some bad. I think that you'll find that most of the people that end up someplace they do not want to be only request the highest desired locations. Everyone wants to go to Colorado, D.C., Hawaii or Washington State. Guess what? Not every one goes there. There are ways to find out where the Army NEEDS young dentists and then request from that list. Overall, the Army is going to put people where they need them and not send everyone on a vacation to Hawaii for three years. The key is to request from desirable (to you) locations that they NEED dentists. Unfortunately, when you first get in, you're the low man. It isn't exactly fair to tell Colonel Ben N. Fortwentyyears that he needs to go to Korea because Captain Newgrad want to be near his mama in D.C. A lot of guys I knew also made deals with them that stated "I'll go to Korea for a year if you send me to Colorado after that year is up" or whatever. Make sure it's all in WRITING though.

Jason

Thanks for all of the great info!! I do have one most question reguarding where they send you after school.

Is it possible to stay in the U.S. for your entire committment? I was just wondering because by then my wife will have her law degree and I can't imagine that there would be a lot of work for her in Korea or Germany.

Possible, but not guarenteed. The military won't care what anyone else in your family does besides you. One option to consider is to find her a job with the military (civilian lawyer). She can find a job at a post in the US where they need young dentists. You can kind of work a "package deal" for where you go. I had a couple of friends in the Army that went to a particular post they wanted because their civilian spouse was a dentist as well. The spouse then contracted with the Amry to work at a particular place.
The military won't split you up if you BOTH work for them, civilian or not. They probably do have civilian lawyer jobs in Germany though. You couldn't work any "deals" until your 4th year of dental school anyway.
Once again... get everything in WRITING!!! Unless it is, don't believe anyone (except me:) )

Jason

Hi jmillO i just pmed you!!

What are the age requirements when you join as a dentist?

One requirement when you join as a dentist - be a dentist.

Any age restrictions though if you are a dentist?

:rolleyes: you have to be 18?

I would assume 18. To go through four years of undergad and 4 years of dental school though before 18? Huh?

I would also guess that there is a max limit too. Maybe 45? I don't know for sure. Anything could be gotten around with a waiver though.

Don't know if anyone has visited this website yet or not, but figured it was appropriate.


http://healthcare.goarmy.com/sixcorps/dentcorps/index.htm

What does this mean?

"Meet the prescribed medical and moral standards for appointment as a commissioned officer"

You start out as an officer?

Yes. You start out as an O-3. That's a Captain for Army and Air Force and a LT for Navy.

Army Dentist: We're going to have to extract this tooth here.
Enlisted guy: No way doc.
Army Dentist: [points to bars on shoulder] get back in the chair.

Army Dentist: We're going to have to extract this tooth here.
Enlisted guy: No way doc.
Army Dentist: Well if you had spent more time using the toothbrush I gave you to brush your teeth rather than your weapon I wouldn't have to tell you to get back in the chair.

What if the patient is a Major?:D

Army Dentist: We're going to have to extract this tooth here.
Enlisted guy: No way doc.
Army Dentist: Well if you had spent more time using the toothbrush I gave you to brush your teeth rather than your weapon I wouldn't have to ask you to get back in the chair, sir.

Army Dentist (Captain): We're going to have to extract this tooth here.
Major: No way doc.
Army Dentist: Well if you had spent more time using the toothbrush I gave you to brush your teeth rather than your weapon I wouldn't have to have the Colonel to tell you to get back in the chair, sir.

But really do you expect colonels to intervene over a major's dental issues??

For those of you who really care.....

If a soldier in the Army HAS to have a tooth extracted, it doesn't matter what rank you are. Every soldier has a contract with the Armed Forces to keep their body healthy... this includes dental. If that soldier denies treatment that is required as determined by a medical professional to keep him/her "ready to fight", that soldier becomes "non-deployable" meaning he/she can't go to war. Any soldier will tell you that they would rather have me as the dentist "you need to have this tooth out", rather than THEIR Colonel tell them "you WILL have that tooth out".

I guess they could have a choice:

1. Me take it out in a clinic with local (or)
2. Their "medic" pull it out with some pliers on the runway before they get on the plane to go to war.

Which would YOU choose?

Okay, got it. You are bound by this agreement.
Also how does the army go about paying up your loans??

School sends them a bill for tuition. They pay it directly.

I had to pay for my instruments and stuff myself and then was reimbursed. I didn't date checks to the school and gave them those checks. The school gave me a receipt which I could submit to the Army. I then was reimbursed by the Army and could then go in and date the checks so the school could deposit them.

All in all, I didn't have to do loans at all.

Jason

jmill0, I sent a pm to you.

Originally posted by jmill0
School sends them a bill for tuition. They pay it directly.

I had to pay for my instruments and stuff myself and then was reimbursed. I didn't date checks to the school and gave them those checks. The school gave me a receipt which I could submit to the Army. I then was reimbursed by the Army and could then go in and date the checks so the school could deposit them.

All in all, I didn't have to do loans at all.

Jason

You were in the army before you got accepted into dental school.
What about somebody who joins the army after dental school?

I WASN'T in the Army before dental school. I spent $35K on my first year in loans and decided "This sucks" and applied for the Army (and Navy and Air Force) scholarship. The Army was the first one back to me with an offer. I took it. I raised my hand and joined the Army during FEB of my first year so the scholarship would start in July. I wasn't obligated to anyone until I had word I had received the scholarship. Even then I could decline until I raised my hand and said the oath.
As for joining after dental school.... always a possibility. I think they have a $30K signing bonus which probably won't make a dent in your loans (It's taxable too!).
My advice is if you want to do the military, decide early and take a scholarship. If you decide afterwards, look at the reserves as last time I checked, they had a $50K loan repayment program for three years of reserve time (one weekend a month/2 weeks a year with the very REAL possibility of being called up during that time for six months). Don't know if that program is still around, but I would have done that if rather than the $30K signing bonus.
JMHO

Jason

jmill0 I sent you a pm!!

Originally posted by jmill0
School sends them a bill for tuition. They pay it directly.

I had to pay for my instruments and stuff myself and then was reimbursed. I didn't date checks to the school and gave them those checks. The school gave me a receipt which I could submit to the Army. I then was reimbursed by the Army and could then go in and date the checks so the school could deposit them.

All in all, I didn't have to do loans at all.

Jason

The way it works now, or at least in my school, is that the Army directly pays for tuition, instrument rental and purchase and any fees that al students have to pay. Then you have to buy your books yourself and submit the paperwork to get reimbursed for them.

The problem with armed forces scholarships is that you may not be able to go right into specialty training right after dental school even if you get accepted somewhere...often you have to pay back your time first, as a general dentist, contrary to what many recruiters would have you believe when getting people to sign up. Other than that its great.

TRUE!!! I had a buddy that got accepted to an OS program but had to turn it down as the Army "needed" his skills as a general dentist... but he was welcome to apply for the Army OS program! Be prepared to go straight to the military if you look for a scholarship. You CAN specialize in the military, but it'll take you several years before you can do it. Strange that everyone gets accepted to specialty training right about the time they're supposed to get out......

Jason

Happened to several people I know too...one guy I know was even forced to leave his residency after being in it for three months! He thought he'd worked out an exception for himself, but he was wrong...

If you specialize in the armed forces there's even more time back you'll owe, and that at a armed-forces-specialist salary, which is smaller than private practice...I've heard significantly smaller...

I just got accepted to and will be attending the Medical University of South Carolina.

Looks like Im going to be an ARMY dentst!!

Congrats El Cid

Congrats El Cid

Can you get this sholarship before being accepted to dental school? I'm a non-trad hygienist looking to go back to dental school, also an ex-marine. Do you think they would help me with my plight if I agreed to give them time? I graduated hyg. school with a 3.9 average and scored incredibly high on the board exam. Please advise.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I was informed by the HPSP recruiters that you must have a letter of acceptance before you are considered or given an acceptance into the HPSP program.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I was informed by the HPSP recruiters that you must have a letter of acceptance before you are considered or given an acceptance into the HPSP program.

You are correct.

However, you can get everything done and ready for the board to review. Once you gain an acceptance you can give/fax it to your recruiter and they can forward your entire packet. The board usually meets once a month, beginning in DEC, until they have awarded all the scholarships.

8 year total obligation:

combination of active-duty and inactive reserve.

Minimum 3 year active duty requirement.

For a 4 year HPSP ---> 4 years AD, 4 years IAR

3 Year HPSP ---> 3 years AD, 5 years IAR

1 year HPSP ---> 3 years AD, 5 years IAR

4 Year HPSP, 4year ROTC ---> 8 years AD, 0 Years IAR

Inactive reserve means you're on a list somewhere and CAN call you up. Odds of it are extremely slim (WWIII). No weekends, no two weeks, no pay, no benefits.

My dental school counted as IAR as soon as you raise your hand.
Since I signed my obligation on 26FEB97, my IAR obligation (and total obligation) ends on 26FEB05.

Jason
Jason I would double check this. I am not saying your wrong but I just got out and they said that since I was in school and accepted the HPSP that this time does not apply to your total commitment. 3 years active 5years inactive for me. three year Air Force HPSP. Maybe air force and Army are different. I hope for your sake.

Jason I would double check this. I am not saying your wrong but I just got out and they said that since I was in school and accepted the HPSP that this time does not apply to your total commitment. 3 years active 5years inactive for me. three year Air Force HPSP. Maybe air force and Army are different. I hope for your sake.

I resigned my commission two months ago after getting out two years ago. Have my discharge paperwork in a safe just in case. Had the final clearing people read my contract and they agreed with me. Wasn't about to argue with them. I don't know what's right, but I'm going with the official signed paperwork on this one....

I resigned my commission two months ago after getting out two years ago. Have my discharge paperwork in a safe just in case. Had the final clearing people read my contract and they agreed with me. Wasn't about to argue with them. I don't know what's right, but I'm going with the official signed paperwork on this one....

The army does not have to abide by any contracts. They make their own rules. But since WWIII will probably not break out you will have no problem.

Jason I would double check this. I am not saying your wrong but I just got out and they said that since I was in school and accepted the HPSP that this time does not apply to your total commitment. 3 years active 5years inactive for me. three year Air Force HPSP. Maybe air force and Army are different. I hope for your sake.

I'm currently in Army HPSP and the IRR is NOT counted during dental school. It wouldn't make financial sense for the Armed Forces to count years of any kind of obligation when you're of no use to them. Also, (everyone probably knows this), but if you enrolled Army HPSP and are not graduating in 05, a one year AEGD will not count toward AD anymore.

ElCid-
I got out of the Army last May from doing a three-year HPSP. I've talked with Dan before about some of my experiences. One of my buddies in my AEGD residency went into Special Forces after he finished the residency. Other than that, most field dentists are attached to a brigade. This would mean that they would serve approx 3500 soldiers. The physician and PA serve a battalion which would be considerably less, hence 5-6+ MDs out there per DDS/DMD.
When I was at Fort Lewis, some of the Rangers were there. there was no dentist attached to them as they were too small of a group to probably need one. They can see a dentist at a BSA (Brigade Support Area). That doesn't mean there isn't one, but I would really doubt that the Rangers get one.
My buddy with SF went and did some dentistry in Thailand for a bit. It was more a humanitarian mission which the SF did.
As for aviation brigades, you might be able to be attached to one of them, but I would imagine that flight school would be a no-go.
Anyway, if you have any specific questions, I'll be hapy to try to answer them.

Jason Miller, DMD

bump. please tell me more about this.

What specifically would you like to know about?

JKM

Hi Jmill,
I want to know about anything cool one could do in the military, anything that you couldn't do as a civilian. Did you and that guy assigned to the special forces both do the 2yr aegd program? Did he go to any military schools such as airborne,etc? Did he get any opportunities to train in some military skills such as sharpshooting,rapelling from helicopter,etc? What countries did he get to travel to, work at? What countries did you get? What kind of interactions did you have with other military officers, such as physicians, aviators, infantry officers?
Thanks a lot!

There's a lot of things you CAN do in the military. I know guys that went to Air Assault school that were dentists. Here's the deal though.... the army has just so many slots for these schools. Would they rather send an infantryman or a dentist to Airborne school? Who is more likely to use it? There is a dental company out of Fort Bragg, NC that is Airborne qualified. They jump out planes and they likes. Not many of them though. Might be possible to get a slot there if you make it known you want to do that.

The SF guy and myself did the 1yr AEGD. I think the 2yr is new, because I don't remember that being an option for us.

I was assigned to a field unit for two years and qualified annually on my weapon (9mm). Only time I fired it. No other weapons qualifiations done for me. The Army isn't about to send me out to learn to do stuff I'm never going to use when I can be getting their soldiers ready for war by taking care of "bombed out" mouths. Every dentist spends most of their time doing dentistry, that's how we're most valuable!

I'm not sure where the SF guy went. I think I heard Thailand for some training, but I can't be sure. I don't knwo where else he went. I know I didn't go anywhere outside the country with the military. Lucky me I guess......

Finally, as for interaction with other military officers. I had relatively none at Fort Lewis. I was a student and spent a lot of time hanging with the other nine in my class.
When I got to NY and the field unit, I started to spend some more time with those in my unit. Still good friends with a Medical service officer three years after I got out. I was also goods friends with an Ordinance(sp?) Officer and some Physicians, PAs, and Nurses in my unit. It's going to be what you make of it. I doubt any of the Infantry Officers were looking to "hang out" with a dentist though.

Just my thoughts....

JKM

Thank you!:thumbup:

Jmill,

Thanks for providing feedback on your military experience. I am a dent I student at Ohio State and I am on HPSP. I have many questions, but one that my wife wants me to get answered is this: Do they really try to match your base location with your "top 3" list? Some say this is true, that they will task you to choose 3 possible locations and match you with one of them. Others say that is bogus. Can you elaborate?

I truly believe they try to match you with what you want. That being said, you have to be realistic. There are several posts that are "highly desirable". Fort Lewis, Fort Carson and Hawaii are a few. The odds of being sent to one of those posts straight out of school if you choose to not do an AEGD there are small. They only have room for so many captains. A lot of those posts have captains that "made deals" to get there. For example, they went to Korea for a year if they could go to Fort Lewis afterwards. If you try to "make a deal", get everything in WRITING. Don't take their word for it.

When you get closer to entering (maybe February right before you graduate), they will send you a list of places that need 63As (General Dentists). Look at the list and see which ones have a "high" priority. If you request those posts, you probably have a good shot at going there. If you give them a bunch of requests that are "low" priority, you may find yourself somewhere you don't want to be.

Things change at the last minute though. I was told that I was going to Fort Bragg by the placement officer (we both agreed that I could go there). When the orders came out though, they said Fort Drum in NY. I was okay with it as it was one of my top three (and I chose form the "high" priority list).

I hope this makes sense. Just remember that when you get in the army, you're the bottom rung on the ladder.

BTW, I truly believe ANY post can be a good assignment if you go into it with a good attitude. 3 years in Fort Riley, Kansas may be the best time of your life!

JKM