viscosupplemets

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wscott

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Survey says....! (ala family feud)

Orthovisc, Euflexa, Supartz, Hyalgan, Synvisc, Synvisc-One

What have you tried? What do you use and why?

Curious to know.

Thanks

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Synvisc and Hyalgan.

I mostly use Synvisc One now, except in Medicaid.

Only reason to do Hyalgan or regular Synvisc now is if you want more money (more injections).
 
I tried Synvisc-One several times and the results were universally poor, in the same patients that did better with Supartz. A large, local ortho group feels the same. I don't know if they like Supartz because they want more money (more injections), but I like it because it works better. I am looking at Orthovisc now.
 
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I tried Synvisc-One several times and the results were universally poor, in the same patients that did better with Supartz. A large, local ortho group feels the same. I don't know if they like Supartz because they want more money (more injections), but I like it because it works better. I am looking at Orthovisc now.

tired synvisc one had bad results, and had problems getting it paid, heard this is better now...also have heard orthos dont like it in my area. However, they orthos in my area dont want to inject knees, so they were excited about a single injection, but still dont like it, FWIW.

orthovisc i used a few times, but i cant remember. I had samples, that was nice. they kinda stopped coming by, so i said forget it...

Hyalgan i have used for 5 years, and it has reproducibly great results.
 
Hyalgan. We inject tons of this at the VA. We do it as a series of 3-5 injections one week apart.

Why? Because someone at the VA decided thats what to use
 
Synvisc 3.
Synvisc 1 in the hips (or 3 if that's what they bring in- but all at once).
$40 copay if filled at the pharmacy for some of my folks.

SML
 
Synvisc 3.
Synvisc 1 in the hips (or 3 if that's what they bring in- but all at once).
$40 copay if filled at the pharmacy for some of my folks.

SML

So, Steve, you just write script out for the patient to fill at the Pharmacy?
 
Euflexxa, avoids synovitis issues with synvisc
 
I've always used synvisc #3 with good results. The ortho docs for the new practice I joined use Orthovisc. Anyone out there with comments about Orthovisc?

Thanks
 
Our practice (orthos, me, and the podiatrist) use Supartz for the most part.

I did two Synvisc 1 injections out of curiosity...like the 1 shot and done idea. Seems to have worked pretty well, but there was a lot of post-injection discomfort due to volume.

May go back to a 3 shot series of Supartz. But to be honest, have had good results with plain old cortisone and haven't had enough people fail with it to have a good sample size for viscosupplementation.
 
Synvisc 3.
Synvisc 1 in the hips (or 3 if that's what they bring in- but all at once).
$40 copay if filled at the pharmacy for some of my folks.

SML

Is Synvisc being widely used for hips? Or shoulders for that matter?

And on a related subject, is there any validity to "stem cell" injections for knee DJD? There's a guy in my area who just started doing them (cash only, of course), and he also does platelet rich plasma injections which I believe are also experimental. Any experiences with these?
 
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Maybe your local Medicare carrier plays it differently, but Synvisc provided by prescription at a pharmacy here is expensive. I order the Synvisc One, whch seems to be the ortho preference here (more on this below) and charge insurance for it. For some reason people seem to have problems with reimbursement but we haven't. The only snag we ever hit was a referral for Hyalgan (pt was allergic to Synvisc) and insurance only covered it at 50% of our cost so we politely declined the referral.

BTW, this is a great marketing tool. Orthos often dislike Synvisc injections because it clogs up their clinic and keeps them from seeing potential operative candidates. So I see their Synvisc injections. A lot of people come in for the injections and ask if perhaps I also treat necks, hips, or low backs. If they don't have spine problems but develop back pain at a later date, my name is already plugged in.
 
Synvisc was clogging my schedule so I send them to my in office Rheumatologist or semi-retired Ortho. I do the research based or impossible to inject ones under fluoro. Rheum uses US. I use air contrast for research patients (magic goo from *******) unsure if I am allowed to name the company, and I use Omnipaque or air for the 300 pounders that cannot get done by the other guys.
 
In Washington state, viscosupplements are only covered by insurance/medicare for knee injections. Are you guys getting it reimbursed for hips and shoulders as well in your areas?
 
In Washington state, viscosupplements are only covered by insurance/medicare for knee injections. Are you guys getting it reimbursed for hips and shoulders as well in your areas?

If not in the knee, we send Rx for patient to obtain med from pharmacy.
Most can get it with a copay and wind up paying less than we do for in office use.

Then we inject as a 20610 in office with no J-code.
 
are you getting fluoro and ultrasound guidance codes reimbursed for hips, shoulders, etc ?

Any idea what their typical copay is for synvisc #1 from the pharmacy?
 
As far as indications for hip or shoulder Synvisc et al, who is the ideal candidate? Conversely, who wouldn't be expected to do well?
 
For guys like Steve that are writing Rxs (whether it's for botox or synvisc,etc) and having the patients bring it to the hospital, how are you insuring it's integrity?

Sure we can all look to see if the 'seal' is not tampered with and the expiration is ok. Of course we 'trust' the patients to not tamper with the material that is going to be injected into them. But does thsi result in more liability exposure to us? For example, as we all know. Patients can not take their own Rxs when they are in house and they can not have the RNs given them their meds from their homes. From what I gather this is d/t liability issues.

We really on the patient to maintain the medication in the fridge or the correct temp,etc . But again, these are not things we can control. These are all things we ASSUME the patient is doing.
 
re: Synvisc for hips

I have a patient, male, early 60s, a big guy (6'3"), overweight. Left hip pain. Xrays (about 2 months ago) negative. MRI a week later shows tiny fracture of femoral head (radiologist sees it on one image).

Significant medical history: failing liver. Just barely functional enough to keep him off transplant list, but he sees transplant doc for regular follow-ups.

He sees ortho, who tells him this fracture may heal on its own and to put up with the pain in the meantime. Doesn't get better. Goes back to ortho, who now is talking hip replacement. Liver doc says 30% chance liver will fail as result of surgery, which doesn't exactly motivate the patient to go for surgery. Because of his liver, his pharm options are apparently limited and have not been helpful to date. He's been on crutches for over a month.

Is this guy a candidate for hip injections of any sort? His hip pain is clearly getting worse.

On a somewhat related note, is Synvisc for hips being paid for in only some regions of the country? I asked a PM&R doc, who said neither he nor anyone in the large ortho group he works at does them (he didn't seem to be aware that this was being done at all).

Thanks for insights.
 
As far as indications for hip or shoulder Synvisc et al, who is the ideal candidate? Conversely, who wouldn't be expected to do well?

Ah, there is the rub.
 
in general visculosupplements have zero efficacy for fractures, they stimulate chondrocytes and may increase viscosity of the joint, as OA reduces viscosity through inflammatory mediators.
When you say femoral head fracture - are you talking about a chondral lesion/fissure or deeper into cortex and cancellous bone?
 
in general visculosupplements have zero efficacy for fractures, they stimulate chondrocytes and may increase viscosity of the joint, as OA reduces viscosity through inflammatory mediators.
When you say femoral head fracture - are you talking about a chondral lesion/fissure or deeper into cortex and cancellous bone?

I wouldn't expect viscosupplements to heal the fracture itself but perhaps help the situation overall, particularly given the nature of this patient's case.

From the MRI report:
IMPRESSION:

1. SEVERE DEGENERATIVE CHANGE OF THE LEFT HIP JOINT WITH NONDISPLACED/NONDEPRESSED SUBCHONDRAL FRACTURE INVOLVING THE ANTERIOR LEFT FEMORAL HEAD AS NOTED ABOVE. THERE IS A SMALL JOINT EFFUSION.

2. EXTENSIVE LABRAL TEAR AS DESCRIBED.
 
Synvisc - not enough literature to defend it's use, although unlikely to cause harm, Not likely to be paid.

Steroids - likely to help pain, possible to delay healing of Fx

I'd be more inclined to go with meds and PT
 
I use Orthovisc. I tried to get a Synvisc rep to come see me to get some info, but didn't hear back from them for a month. Finally someone called me back, then told me the local rep would call me. Never heard from them. Sad to say, but I'd rather have to give 3 injections knowing that I've got good customer service and can have supply sent to me overnight, rather than deal with incompetent service.

I've also heard from others that their experience has been that Synvisc One has a poorer outcome compared to Orthovisc or Euflexa.

As for the hip fracture with severe degenerative changes, I agree with the statement above that a steroid would probably help the pain but delay healing of the fracture. If you're feeling somewhat experimental, try PRP. (Oh no! Have I just opened up Pandora's box again?)

Personally, I would take the safe route with PT and pain meds.
 
Synvisc - not enough literature to defend it's use, although unlikely to cause harm, Not likely to be paid.

Steroids - likely to help pain, possible to delay healing of Fx

I'd be more inclined to go with meds and PT

He got nowhere with PT; he's in a ton of pain. As for meds, he's been taking codeine for the past few months, but apparently it's not working well. His family doc gave him a Fentanyl patch until the ortho F/U. Saw ortho yesterday, but ortho reluctant to give meds due to liver situation; ortho told patient to see his liver specialist, who told the patient it was the ortho's problem. In the end, the liver doc did give the patient 20 hydrocodone (or maybe oxycodone) as a temporary measure.

This patient is in a tough spot because of the liver complications. That's why I was wondering if he's a candidate for any type of injection.

What would you do with this patient?
 
the guy's problem is that he most likely has osteonecrosis of the femoral head, causing arthritis and this "fracture". i would be afraid to put steroids into the joint, but that will help for what, 4 weeks? this guy has to either get his hip replaced, or learn to deal with his discomfort

also, it matters WHY the gentleman has liver failure. if its from decades of drinking, narcotics are probably not the greatest idea.

he may end up in a wheelchair, but no injection is gonna save this guy
 
the guy's problem is that he most likely has osteonecrosis of the femoral head, causing arthritis and this "fracture". I would be afraid to put steroids into the joint, but that will help for what, 4 weeks? This guy has to either get his hip replaced, or learn to deal with his discomfort

also, it matters why the gentleman has liver failure. If its from decades of drinking, narcotics are probably not the greatest idea.

He may end up in a wheelchair, but no injection is gonna save this guy

1+
 
based on that rad report he needs a THA

symptomatic relief for now w/ aspiration of effusion and put in synvisc one with or with out small dose of steroid (controversial). But you're not going to get any more than 4-6 weeks of improvement

Intra-articular PRP if he wants to gamble on an experiment that could increase his pain from a hemarthrosis

end stage hip djd doesn't do well period
 
NSAID Shots Better Than Cortisone for Shoulder Pain
Nancy A. Melville

July 15, 2011 (San Diego, California) — A single injection of the nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) ketorolac shows superiority over corticosteroid injections in the treatment of shoulder impingement syndrome, according to a double-blind, randomized study presented here at the American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine (AOSSM) 2011 Annual Meeting.

Corticosteroid injections are a common treatment for subacromial impingement syndrome; however, they are associated with some adverse effects, including tendon rupture, subcutaneous atrophy, and changes to articular cartilage. Previous research has shown, meanwhile, that NSAID injections also have efficacy in treating such patients.

In an effort to compare the 2 treatment approaches, researchers enrolled 48 patients diagnosed with isolated external shoulder impingement syndrome.

The patients were randomly assigned to receive either a single injection of 6 cc of 1% lidocaine with epinephrine and 40 mg triamcinolone or 6 cc of 1% lidocaine with epinephrine and 60 mg ketorolac.

Improvement was assessed according to the University of California– Los Angeles Shoulder Assessment Score, and the results at a 4-week follow-up visit showed that patients in both treatment groups had increased range of motion and decreased pain.

The mean improvement in the assessment score for the NSAID group, however, was 7.15 compared with just 2.13 in the steroid group (P = .03).

The NSAID group showed an increase in forward flexion strength (NSAID, 0.26; steroid, −0.07; P = .04) and improved patient satisfaction over the steroid group.

"These results demonstrate that both groups had good immediate response. However, only the NSAID group had a sustained response," said lead author Kyong Su Min, MD, from the Madigan Healthcare System in Tacoma, Washington.

"Two clinically important and pertinent advantages of NSAID injections are that there is no reported tissue atrophy or cartilage damage with NSAID injections, and the injections are not limited by frequency," he added.

The relief provided by the subacromial injection of both ketorolac and triamcinolone is believed to result from the drugs' local anti-inflammatory effect, he noted.

Ketorolac injections are often used in settings such as college athletics because of their robust pain-relieving properties, said Christian Lattermann, MD, an assistant professor of orthopaedic surgery and sports medicine from the University of Kentucky in Lexington.

"They are extremely powerful and have been used a lot in college sports as a pain medication because of their extremely strong anti-inflammatory effect," explained Dr. Lattermann, who is director of the university's Center for Cartilage Repair and Restoration Medical Center.

Although sparing patients some of the adverse effects of corticosteroid injections, however, the treatment is not without some adverse effects of its own, he cautioned.

"Ketorolac injections are not completely without side effects. They can cause bleeding, and you also have to make sure the kidneys are okay before using them, for instance. In addition, patients cannot take oral NSAIDs while they're receiving injections, so those are some down sides," he noted.

"If someone has a gastric ulcer, you shouldn't use it, and it's not entirely clear whether, in those high of doses, it is more or less detrimental to the rotary cuff than cortisone," Dr. Lattermann stated.

The study is valuable, however, in demonstrating ketorolac's potential efficacy in comparison to corticosteroid injections.

"I think it's a valid study and a very interesting idea and suggests ketorolac may be a useful alternative, particularly if corticosteroid treatment failed," Dr. Lattermann.

The study's authors and Dr. Lattermann have disclosed no relevant financial relationships.

American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine (AOSSM) 2011 Annual Meeting: Abstract 34. Presented July 10, 2011.
 
Thanks as always for the input.
 
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