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Yeah, y'all should call the office and they'll fix it for you.
I had two open dates: Jan 25 and 27 - maybe they just opened or something?
Yeah, y'all should call the office and they'll fix it for you.
I had two open dates: Jan 25 and 27 - maybe they just opened or something?
I read in earlier threads that WashU is big on waitlisting people late in the game ... any current students have any input on this? Is interviewing at the end of January like pretty much interviewing for waitlist positions? Any current students on here interview late in the season?
Any input would be much appreciated!
I personally did not interview late, but a lot of my classmates did. Some of them were on the waitlist prior to getting in, but not all of them. I think no matter what rolling acceptance school you're talking about, it's harder to get in if you interview late, but WashU generally does see a lot of waitlist movement, so in the end, there are a lot of people who interviewed later in the year who get accepted here. But there are people who interviewed the last week who got accepted without being waitlisted too so anything can happen.
Thanks for the input! Do you happen to know what days WashU interviews during the week? Last night when I signed up for a date there were only two options and I was hoping to call the office tomorrow to try and get a new date, but figured if I knew ahead of time which days of the week they typically interview, it would help in formulating possibilities (for dates).
They interview every weekday.
I sent mine about a week after my interview. That way, I was able to include how much I enjoyed the interview, how I loved the school, how I felt it was a great fit, etc. It was a combined update/interest letter. They told me they added it to my file.
Out of curiosity, about how long was your letter? Or how long do letters or interest or update letters tend to be?
It would be easy to write 2 pages single spaced but I think that would be a little excessive.
Thankssss
Mine was about 3/5 of a page with two paragraphs, single spaced. I don't know what the norm is.
Hey y'all - on the visiting arrangements it says the pizza party is 'strongly recommended' but my flight gets in after the pizza party ends ... is this really bad? Should I try and figure out a flight plan that sets it up so I can attend the pizza party?
I figure it is just a meet-and-greet gathering and has no influence on our decision, but thought I'd extend the situation to some of the current students on here to get their feedback.
Thanks for any input!
While it is a good way to talk to current students and get to know the other interviewees before the interview day, it's no big deal if you miss it. The admissions office has no way of knowing who goes and who doesn't. And you'll have plenty of time to talk to students during the interview day between breakfast, lunch, and your tour.
Thank you! Your input is always so helpful! Could I bug you once more? Do you know if we need to do anything additionally to reserve a room in Olin the night before our interview? As in, if we have checked it off on our visiting arrangements, is that all we have to do?
That should be it.
WUMS 2011 - 26% - 26%
WUMS 2010 - 29% - 30%
HMS 2011 - 45% - 26%
HMS 2010 - 37% - 29%
JHU 2011 - 35% - ?
JHU 2010 - 34% - 24%
Stanford 2011 - 33% - 31%
Stanford 2010 - 26% - 33%
Penn 2011 - 38% - 29%
Penn 2010 - 38% - 17%
I did notice there were far fewer interviewees from Ivies at WashU than my other interviews. I'm not sure what that means if anything. It could also have been a random coincidence of my particular interview day.
Undergraduate Primary Institutions of Matriculating Students, 1995 2011
Washington University 207
Harvard 88
Duke 79
Stanford 72
UC Berkeley 51
Northwestern 48
U Michigan-Ann Arbor 48
Cornell 46
Yale 46
U Illinois-Champaign Urbana 42
Princeton 41
MIT 39
Med school Accept Matric Yield
Harvard 44 32 0.73
Stanford 25 12 0.48
Columbia 40 16 0.40
Hopkins 25 10 0.40
Penn 19 7 0.37
Yale 35 9 0.26
WashU 15 1 0.07
The proportion interviewees from any given school varies widely by day. In my interview day (10 people?), I recall Harvard, 2x MIT, and Princeton.
[/CODE]I'm not sure of what conclusions to draw from this limited data.
School - 1 1+2 1-other 1+2-other %match in IM
WUMS 2011 .72 .84 .53 .73 .22
WUMS 2010 .48 .57 .21 .36 .18
HMS 2011 .74 .89 .54 .92 .21
HMS 2010 .77 .90 .50 .75 .21
JHU 2010 .83 .90 .76 .88 .24
Stanford 2011 .37 .74 .54 .62 .23
Stanford 2010 .50 .92 .86 .86 .13
Penn 2011 .72 .89 .64 .86 .17
Penn 2010 .69 .90 .44 .81 .21
I was trying to look for the match lists for some of the other top schools listed by LSLGPK. I wasn't as thorough as chronicidal. His sources are other SDN forums, and I wasn't able to locate a lot of lists directly from institution websites.One interesting thing you may notice if you try to dig deeper when comparing schools is that Wash U is very closed about their match list. The match list is unavailable from outside computer networks and requires a student ID/password. Other schools will openly post their match lists.
I was suspecting other school's "inbreeding" numbers were going to be about the same as Wash U's, and chronicidal's excellently detailed data supports that. I put "inbreeding" in quotes, because the word sounds ominous, there being an implication that people staying at the same institution do so because of the lack of opportunity elsewhere. Regional preference has a variable part in people's choice of medical school, and it would be unsurprising if they wanted to stay in that region post med school. Different family situations can have a role too, more graduating medical students than say college students, may be married or be in serious relationships and have a strong interest to stay in that city. HMS "inbreeding" numbers are pretty high, because they have so many large affiliated hospitals (BID, MGH, BWH etc.). The number of people who stayed in Boston, once you include BU, Tufts hospitals, will be even higher. Probably same for any of the NY schools.The inbreeding is a vicious cycle. The more you inbreed, the less attractive it is to outsiders to take a chance on ranking your program and the fewer representative residents we have in other programs. There are networks of schools and residents that facilitate exchange of medical students in the matching process. We are extremely geographically and politically isolated. So people continue to inbreed here because we are at a relative disadvantage. The grading system, ranking, and AOA schemes are internal barriers. In a winner take all system, there are a lot of people left out.
That said, you have to understand that I'm not trying to wave off LSLGPK's comments. Class rankings, AOA, letter grading (which H/HP/P/F does amount to) increases the stress by a lot more than maybe necessary. As in med school admissions, your stats and your institutional brand name does give you an edge in residency applications. Everyone at Wash U is incredibly talented and smart (as LSLGPK mentioned, 39 MCAT class average, for crying out loud), but two-thirds of this class will be in the middle/bottom third of their own class. The Wash U name, I am sure, matters to residency program directors. The class rank does not constrain the USMLE step 1 scores, which I was told during interview, are pretty high across the board, in keeping with those incredible MCAT numbers. The match list shows that everyone does pretty well. But if other top schools achieve the same success rate with the P/F for both years and no ranks/AOA, it makes you think, are those metrics really worth that extra stress for students?The grading system is a very negative aspect here. It is difficult to get across to you how depressing and stressful it is. This is not limited to just me. Other people will not tell you this because it brings shame and embarrassment. Depression and stress can range from a constant level to a level that requires psychiatric evaluation and hospitalization.
Lastly, for LSLGPK, about the school officials redirecting your dreams... that is unfortunate. It is not unique to Wash U though. I obviously don't have numbers of how often this happens, but this happened to a friend of mine at another top school (grading system similar to Wash U's), who was interested in a ROADS residency (not just any odd one for lifestyle, he was really interested in a particular field) and he was *strongly advised* to reconsider. That forms an unfortunate scenario, where the lack of support felt very distressing. This individual did get into the field of his choice, it just made the process incredibly more stressful. LSLGPK, I hope the holidays are a good de-stressor, before stepping back into the pressure cooker.I have personally been told to maybe reconsider my dreams by school officials because my academic performance hasn't been great. A school that destroys your dreams is a fate that I would not consign anyone.
Dear applicants,
As a medical student at WUSM and someone who knows ksmi117, I would like to give an appraisal of WUSM that includes both the positive and negative aspects of my experience here.
As ksmi117's efforts show, WUSM is extremely interested in recruiting applicants. We do in fact recruit some of the highest MCAT scores in the nation. Our year had an average MCAT score of 39. The research stature of WUSM as measured NIH funding is number four at 348,000,000$ (brimr.org). We have a U.S. news ranking tied at no. 4 with Duke.
WUSM however has a low yield and high acceptance rate, which are negative indicators of desirability (U.S. News report). The explanation given by school officials will usually be geographic. There are however some fundamental weaknesses that should be pointed out though.
The first year P/F and second, third, fourth year H/HP/P/F system should be clear to you if considering the school. We are ranked into top, middle, and bottom thirds. This is in stark contrast to the other top ten schools, which I will summarize the preclinical years for you: (Harvard, P/F both years); (Hopkins P/F); (UPenn Module1 P/F, Module2 H/P/F, Module3 P/F); (Duke: P/F), (UCSF: P/F), (Stanford: P/F), (Yale: no grades/rank), (University of Washington Year one: P/F, Year two: H/P/F), (Columbia: P/F, unranked).
The grading system is a very negative aspect here. It is difficult to get across to you how depressing and stressful it is. This is not limited to just me. Other people will not tell you this because it brings shame and embarrassment. Depression and stress can range from a constant level to a level that requires psychiatric evaluation and hospitalization. You have to remember that we have on average some of the most "book smart" kids according to MCAT scores. For me, second year has been a nightmare where I study until I literally feel I am sick and about to collapse, take the test, feel ok about it, then receive a pass or a fail. I feel a sense of learned helplessness… no matter how hard I try, I cannot do well… Obviously for a school that has H/HP/P/F and ranks and has AOA, that is not so good for going to the field or program I want to.
For those of you who are saying, "well… they might change the grading scheme…" Trust me, they won't. You'll be attendings by the time they do. For those of you who are saying, "well… it's probably just as rough anywhere else…" Trust me, it isn't. I have friends at virtually every top 15 school in the nation. Their experiences are completely different. It is a very competitive system that breeds fear and anguish.
Beyond the grading, medical school is supposed to open doors to residencies. One interesting thing you may notice if you try to dig deeper when comparing schools is that Wash U is very closed about their match list. The match list is unavailable from outside computer networks and requires a student ID/password. Other schools will openly post their match lists. There is a reason for this. If you do manage to gain access, you will notice two things A) inbreeding B) a scarcity of people going into certain competitive fields. I can point out with certainty that we have relatively fewer people going to plastic surgery, neurosurgery, ophthalmology, or dermatology than Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, and Columbia.
Why is this the case? It is not because of a lack of interest. The inbreeding is a vicious cycle. The more you inbreed, the less attractive it is to outsiders to take a chance on ranking your program and the fewer representative residents we have in other programs. There are networks of schools and residents that facilitate exchange of medical students in the matching process. We are extremely geographically and politically isolated. So people continue to inbreed here because we are at a relative disadvantage. The grading system, ranking, and AOA schemes are internal barriers. In a winner take all system, there are a lot of people left out. I have personally been told to maybe reconsider my dreams by school officials because my academic performance hasn't been great. A school that destroys your dreams is a fate that I would not consign anyone.
I left the central west end metrolink platform for the airport two weeks ago. While waiting on the platform, I met an applicant who had just interviewed. She was an interesting and kind person. Naturally, she began to ask me about the school. Naturally, I began to act positive and answer her questions. But towards the end of that conversation, I suddenly realized that she didn't believe me and I didn't believe myself. It is the strangest feeling to realize that you have been so traumatized, that you can't even lie for a 20 minute train ride and put on a smile. My face had been frozen in an emotionless state. My eyes had drifted off into the distance the entire time taking in blurs of a decaying industrial city scarred with torn down buildings and grass filled lots. The words I spoke had the facade of melody but was not music.
Perhaps I face retribution from certain people for bearing witness. They are not terrible people. Our emotions that are deemed good or evil are not divided but often meld and transform into each other. If we did not care, vengeance would not exist. If I did not feel pain and helplessness, I would not feel the intense desire to protect and love.
In a barren wasteland of ambitions, greed, and power, there are a few of us who do care deeply about you. Perhaps you will meet one of us at the cafe over a cup of coffee, or when you need a kind word in the study carrels, perhaps in the wards of the hospital after being degraded. There is no guarantee that you will meet a person who cares. But if you do meet someone, it will make all the difference.
School % surgery of all categorical matches
WUMS 2011 18
WUMS 2010 18
HMS 2011 19
HMS 2010 17
Hopkins 2010 17
Stanford 2011 18
Stanford 2010 21
Penn 2011 13
Penn 2010 13
Columbia 2011 21
Columbia 2010 26
School General Neuro Ortho ENT Plast Urology Total
WUMS 5.2 0.9 6.1 3.5 3.5 1.7 20.9
HMS 8.4 7.1 6.5 2.6 4.5 1.9 31
JHU 6.7 5 3.4 5 0 5 25.1
Stanford 8.1 5.8 11.6 4.6 4.6 1.2 35.9
Penn 6.6 2.9 5.1 2.2 0.7 1.5 19
Columbia 6.6 3.3 13.2 3.9 2 4.6 33.6
I hope everything works out for you--you seem pretty unhappy. I may or may not have been that person on the tram? anyway, good luck this semester.Dear applicants,
As a medical student at WUSM and someone who knows ksmi117, I would like to give an appraisal of WUSM that includes both the positive and negative aspects of my experience here.
As ksmi117's efforts show, WUSM is extremely interested in recruiting applicants. We do in fact recruit some of the highest MCAT scores in the nation. Our year had an average MCAT score of 39. The research stature of WUSM as measured NIH funding is number four at 348,000,000$ (brimr.org). We have a U.S. news ranking tied at no. 4 with Duke.
WUSM however has a low yield and high acceptance rate, which are negative indicators of desirability (U.S. News report). The explanation given by school officials will usually be geographic. There are however some fundamental weaknesses that should be pointed out though.
The first year P/F and second, third, fourth year H/HP/P/F system should be clear to you if considering the school. We are ranked into top, middle, and bottom thirds. This is in stark contrast to the other top ten schools, which I will summarize the preclinical years for you: (Harvard, P/F both years); (Hopkins P/F); (UPenn Module1 P/F, Module2 H/P/F, Module3 P/F); (Duke: P/F), (UCSF: P/F), (Stanford: P/F), (Yale: no grades/rank), (University of Washington Year one: P/F, Year two: H/P/F), (Columbia: P/F, unranked).
The grading system is a very negative aspect here. It is difficult to get across to you how depressing and stressful it is. This is not limited to just me. Other people will not tell you this because it brings shame and embarrassment. Depression and stress can range from a constant level to a level that requires psychiatric evaluation and hospitalization. You have to remember that we have on average some of the most "book smart" kids according to MCAT scores. For me, second year has been a nightmare where I study until I literally feel I am sick and about to collapse, take the test, feel ok about it, then receive a pass or a fail. I feel a sense of learned helplessness… no matter how hard I try, I cannot do well… Obviously for a school that has H/HP/P/F and ranks and has AOA, that is not so good for going to the field or program I want to.
For those of you who are saying, "well… they might change the grading scheme…" Trust me, they won't. You'll be attendings by the time they do. For those of you who are saying, "well… it's probably just as rough anywhere else…" Trust me, it isn't. I have friends at virtually every top 15 school in the nation. Their experiences are completely different. It is a very competitive system that breeds fear and anguish.
Beyond the grading, medical school is supposed to open doors to residencies. One interesting thing you may notice if you try to dig deeper when comparing schools is that Wash U is very closed about their match list. The match list is unavailable from outside computer networks and requires a student ID/password. Other schools will openly post their match lists. There is a reason for this. If you do manage to gain access, you will notice two things A) inbreeding B) a scarcity of people going into certain competitive fields. I can point out with certainty that we have relatively fewer people going to plastic surgery, neurosurgery, ophthalmology, or dermatology than Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, and Columbia.
Why is this the case? It is not because of a lack of interest. The inbreeding is a vicious cycle. The more you inbreed, the less attractive it is to outsiders to take a chance on ranking your program and the fewer representative residents we have in other programs. There are networks of schools and residents that facilitate exchange of medical students in the matching process. We are extremely geographically and politically isolated. So people continue to inbreed here because we are at a relative disadvantage. The grading system, ranking, and AOA schemes are internal barriers. In a winner take all system, there are a lot of people left out. I have personally been told to maybe reconsider my dreams by school officials because my academic performance hasn't been great. A school that destroys your dreams is a fate that I would not consign anyone.
I left the central west end metrolink platform for the airport two weeks ago. While waiting on the platform, I met an applicant who had just interviewed. She was an interesting and kind person. Naturally, she began to ask me about the school. Naturally, I began to act positive and answer her questions. But towards the end of that conversation, I suddenly realized that she didn't believe me and I didn't believe myself. It is the strangest feeling to realize that you have been so traumatized, that you can't even lie for a 20 minute train ride and put on a smile. My face had been frozen in an emotionless state. My eyes had drifted off into the distance the entire time taking in blurs of a decaying industrial city scarred with torn down buildings and grass filled lots. The words I spoke had the facade of melody but was not music.
Perhaps I face retribution from certain people for bearing witness. They are not terrible people. Our emotions that are deemed good or evil are not divided but often meld and transform into each other. If we did not care, vengeance would not exist. If I did not feel pain and helplessness, I would not feel the intense desire to protect and love.
In a barren wasteland of ambitions, greed, and power, there are a few of us who do care deeply about you. Perhaps you will meet one of us at the cafe over a cup of coffee, or when you need a kind word in the study carrels, perhaps in the wards of the hospital after being degraded. There is no guarantee that you will meet a person who cares. But if you do meet someone, it will make all the difference.
When I was there, Forest Park was great. I walked from one end to the other. Of course, it's January now, so that probably means bad things in terms of weather...Also, since I have around 8 hours... what are the must see or do things in St. Louis?
I hate to derail the interesting discussion going on here, but I had a question or two about the interview visit. My flight gets into St. Louis at about noon the day before, and I was wondering if anyone had experience getting to the school that early in the day. Are they alright with people showing up that early, or do they usually want people showing up later (after the last batch of interviewees have left)? At the very least id like to drop off my luggage.
Also, since I have around 8 hours... what are the must see or do things in St. Louis?
Where should update letters get sent? Have you guys just been emailing the admissions committee at [email protected]?
Thanks!
If grades cause so much stress and possibly depression without any real benefit, why are there still pre-clinical grades?
The administration seems quite supportive of the students, both from what you all are saying and from what I heard while I was interviewing. Can one of you please show this huge discussion to someone? Get them to give out a survey or something? Or is it not that simple?
I have meditated about your thoughts. It's definitely good to hear your perspective. With regards to your opinion on the grading system, I had no idea they were considering the opposite trend P/F --> H/HP/P/F for first year. It is interesting because they always say they'll consider the opposite move for second year. It seems doubtful to me that a move like that would help considering the trend of P/F of other medical schools overall. There is a report on pubmed about the Mayo transition to pass fail grading, which decreased stress, improved mood, and increased class cohesion (compared the two transition classes). There is also a later report by Mayo on metrics of stress, depersonalization, emotional exhaustion, and burnout being higher under non pass fail grading.
I think that it's this Friday at 12:00am (Saint Louis time). Correct me if I am wrong guys!
MD2016 Accepted!!!
Does anyone know the length of time it takes for the committee to make a decision? My file was marked as complete on Nov 30th, and I still haven't heard anything back. I'm getting really nervous!
Thanks