Kenalog concerns

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specepic

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some of you may recall a recent thread regarding triamcinolone and the concerns are raised over new FDA warnings. This thread was moved to the physicians forum but I thought I would provided update to the general forum. I did some of my own research on the FDA site and I could not find any warnings for triamcinolone which were any different than for other injectable corticosteroids. I took a step further and contacted my Hospital pharmacist and ask them to research the issue:


"Hello Dr. Dufus,

I spoke with you earlier about your questions regarding the new FDA warning on triamcinolone injections. I wanted to be sure to follow up with what I found. From the information I read, it seems that the FDA warning regarding anaphylaxis with triamcinolone injections is no more significant than with other injectable corticosteroids (methylprednisolone and betamethasone). It isn't a FDA Black Box Warning, the FDA has required it be added to the possible adverse effects of the package insert. From the literature I read, there didn't seem to be any evidence that recommended discontinuing its use, just warnings that there is a rare possibility of anaphylactic reactions occurring. According to the information from the FDA, if an anaphylactic reaction were to occur, it would happen regardless of the injection route.

I also spoke with Mike regarding the dexamethasone 4mg/mL. He said that there is a national drug shortage on it because of the recall and that we will get it in as soon as it becomes available from any source.

I hope you find this information helpful, feel free to contact me with questions.

Thank you for your time,

____ _____"

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Thank you for the update. I read the literature on Kenalog where it was written not for epidural use but did not find anything similar with Depomedrol. I am just using Depomedrol instead of Kenalog for LESI's and Celestone for TFESI.
 
1+ Thank you for the f/u.
 
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Specepic,
Thanks for the update on Kenalog.

As for the dexa 4mg shortage, do you really use that low of a dose? We use the 10mg/ml vial for all epidurals. And in the study that showed it was just as effective as Kenalog (think it was Dreyfus), they used 12mg for the transforaminals. Are you using three 4mg vials? If so, thanks for causing the shortage. ;)
 
Specepic,
Thanks for the update on Kenalog.

As for the dexa 4mg shortage, do you really use that low of a dose? We use the 10mg/ml vial for all epidurals. And in the study that showed it was just as effective as Kenalog (think it was Dreyfus), they used 12mg for the transforaminals. Are you using three 4mg vials? If so, thanks for causing the shortage. ;)

That study was for cervical TFESI only, and they only followed patients out to 1 month. If you want to do repeat lumbar TFESI q6 weeks, then yes dex is the way to go.
 
That study was for cervical TFESI only, and they only followed patients out to 1 month. If you want to do repeat lumbar TFESI q6 weeks, then yes dex is the way to go.

I think that conclusion is unfounded. There hasn't been a study to show that, and that certainly isn't what I've found with the patients here. To be simplistic about it, no steroid (not even the particulates like methylpredinisolone and triamcinolone) stay around for months; they exert their effects on inflammation (and washing away of inflammatory mediators) and then time only tells when that nerve root irritation returns. So with a high enough dose of a non-particulate, why couldn't it last just as long? Until a quality study comes out showing me otherwise, I'll just have to go with patient experience.
 
I think that conclusion is unfounded. There hasn't been a study to show that, and that certainly isn't what I've found with the patients here. To be simplistic about it, no steroid (not even the particulates like methylpredinisolone and triamcinolone) stay around for months; they exert their effects on inflammation (and washing away of inflammatory mediators) and then time only tells when that nerve root irritation returns. So with a high enough dose of a non-particulate, why couldn't it last just as long? Until a quality study comes out showing me otherwise, I'll just have to go with patient experience.

I'd agree that medicine still doesn't completely understand all the therapeutic mechanisms for epidural steriods. Studies have shown brief relief doing TFESIs with normal saline.

Until a quality study comes out showing me otherwise, I'll just have to go with patient experience.

What is that patient experience based on? Your ID indicates that you're a fellow and most fellows have a fairly modest amount of long term follow-up with patients after interventional procedures.

You start following a large volume of the same patients for a few years and we won't need to debate whether dex or kenalog/depo lasts longer for a lumbar TFESI.
 
Dex vs kenalog/depo for lumbar TFESI, with results out to six months or more, would be a very useful study that I hope is picked up by a university medical center somewhere.
 
thanks specepic...

my pharmacy won't allow RNs to take out Kenalog for ESIs from Pyxis due to new warning...

it wasn't quite clear to me when I read the FDA warning that the warning was for anayphylaxis.

what i did see was
"Spinal cord infarction, paraplegia, quadriplegia, cortical blindness, and stroke (including brainstem) have been reported after epidural administration of corticosteroids (see WARNINGS: Neurologic).".... which could technically occur w/ local anesthesia alone or needle alone (depending on poor technique)...

maybe I (and pharmacy) are over-reacting. I think I will just amend my consent and go back to Kenalog (i love that stuff) as soon as I can talk to my favorite pharmacist
 
What does the audience think about using celestone soluspan for their particulate? Particle size is small, its about a 1:1 with dexamethasone... seems like a reasonable choice.

Anyone concerned about the benzalkonium used as a preservative?
 
What does the audience think about using celestone soluspan for their particulate? Particle size is small, its about a 1:1 with dexamethasone... seems like a reasonable choice.

Anyone concerned about the benzalkonium used as a preservative?

Based on Tiso data and discussion at Isis this year, I've gone from Celestine to dex for all tfesi no matter what level. Safety first.
 
Based on Tiso data and discussion at Isis this year, I've gone from Celestine to dex for all tfesi no matter what level. Safety first.


What are your outcomes? I'd love to switch to Dex (no more DSA!). In the past it seemed like it did not work that well, I'm curious as to your experience.
 
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What are your outcomes? I'd love to switch to Dex (no more DSA!). In the past it seemed like it did not work that well, I'm curious as to your experience.

It's clear ant pretty pearly white like celestone. It injects the same. Patients have not yet returned complaining and charlie's data suggests it works as well. Try and refute Charlie. Can't do it. Isis assassin group.
 
so... for the month of august i did all TFESIs with dex... all are now coming back for f/u
consensus:
1) noticed quicker/prompter relief (good)
2) relief lasted between 24 hours and 1 week (bad)
3) all are requesting repeat TFESI w/ kenalog like they used to get...

hmmm... i have gone back to kenalog... it does have benzyl alcohol as preservative..
 
It's clear ant pretty pearly white like celestone. It injects the same. Patients have not yet returned complaining and charlie's data suggests it works as well. Try and refute Charlie. Can't do it. Isis assassin group.

Sorry, but even the esteemed Charlie April is not always correct.

charlie's data suggests it works as well

Where exactly is that published??
 
so... for the month of august i did all TFESIs with dex... all are now coming back for f/u
consensus:
1) noticed quicker/prompter relief (good)
2) relief lasted between 24 hours and 1 week (bad)
3) all are requesting repeat TFESI w/ kenalog like they used to get...

hmmm... i have gone back to kenalog... it does have benzyl alcohol as preservative..

Nocebo effect.
 
so... for the month of august i did all TFESIs with dex... all are now coming back for f/u
consensus:
1) noticed quicker/prompter relief (good)
2) relief lasted between 24 hours and 1 week (bad)
3) all are requesting repeat TFESI w/ kenalog like they used to get...

hmmm... i have gone back to kenalog... it does have benzyl alcohol as preservative..

This is exactly what my experience has been with dex. Quicker onset of relief, but duration of relief around 30% that of kenalog.

it does have benzyl alcohol as preservative

you can get custom-compounded preservative free kenalog. It doesn't cost that much more, and you don't get the rare but serious reactions to preservatives.

I think I told this story on the forum before, but I had a patient for whom I had done two previous cervical ILESI with the preservative-free kenalog I used in my office. Several months later I did another cervical ILESI at our local ASC, using the same skin prep and contrast dye as in my office, but this time using their standard kenalog (with preservative) as the injectate. 1 minute after injecting her she developed dyspnea, stridor, and wheezing. Thankfully it resolved with epi.

I believe she had an anaphylactic reaction to the preservative, not kenalog itself as she did just fine with her two previous epidurals I did using preservative-free kenalog. This is why I only use preservative-free kenalog, and no one has ever had a significant allergic reaction to the preservative free stuff.

The FDA anaphylaxis warning should be for kenalog with preservative, not preservative free.
 
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Based on Tiso data and discussion at Isis this year, I've gone from Celestine to dex for all tfesi no matter what level. Safety first.

This is a question for the Isis assassin group - ie lobelsteve.

Why do you think ISIS didn't talk about DSA? In fact, with their new guideline book sitting on my desk, they don't even mentioned it.

Given the fact that there has never been any report of catostrophic event while using DSA - shouldn't it atleast be mentioned....talked about....discussed?
 
Don't forget, tho, about the case reports of infection with custom compounding. Little/local pharm centers have their risks.

Still wondering how serious the risks of using steroid with benzalkonium are.
 
This is a question for the Isis assassin group - ie lobelsteve.

Why do you think ISIS didn't talk about DSA? In fact, with their new guideline book sitting on my desk, they don't even mentioned it.

Given the fact that there has never been any report of catostrophic event while using DSA - shouldn't it atleast be mentioned....talked about....discussed?

Strange, but I find myself agreeing with epidural man here--:)

I think ISIS has been slack in not emphasizing DSA. Very important point that there hasn't been a reported catastrophic event using DSA.
 
Don't forget, tho, about the case reports of infection with custom compounding. Little/local pharm centers have their risks.

Agree, you have to thoroughly research you suppler and ensure they test every single lot for contamination. You don't want to get your preservative free steroid from your local mom & pop pharmacy.

Still wondering how serious the risks of using steroid with benzalkonium are.

I guess you didn't read my story a few posts up?

Also, preservatives are thought to be linked to occasional cases of arachnoiditis after epidurals
 
so... for the month of august i did all TFESIs with dex... all are now coming back for f/u
consensus:
1) noticed quicker/prompter relief (good)
2) relief lasted between 24 hours and 1 week (bad)
3) all are requesting repeat TFESI w/ kenalog like they used to get...

hmmm... i have gone back to kenalog... it does have benzyl alcohol as preservative..

Did you tell the pts up front? Do you charge them again for repeat? Just curious.
 
I guess you didn't read my story a few posts up?

Also, preservatives are thought to be linked to occasional cases of arachnoiditis after epidurals

I did read the post, but I'm operating under the principle that benzyl alcohol =/= benzalkonium chloride, particularly from an allergic perspective.

And I certainly agree with the point about arachnoiditis and "preservative-full" steroids... I've seen a possible case myself.
 
Maybe we should try a cc of dex and a cc of Kenalog! Fast onset and long duration.

I have been doing this for years now. I think it works great. 40mg Kennalog and 4-8mg Dex. I am not a believer in the low steroid model. I have seen too many people not doing well on 20mg Kennalog per level. Pure dex for a lumbar ESI gives poor outcomes. I also use dex as the "volume" in interlaminar ESIs instead of saline.
 
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/ucm262876.htm

I have been using Kenalog for ESI for ever. I had one patient developed anaphylactic reaction after ESI with Kenalog which was treated with epi.

What do you tell your patients?
I am using Kenalog agaist FDA recommedation and the package insert !!
Both Kenalog and Depo has the same warning. But that is what every one uses for ESI and spine injections.
 
Had a patient several years ago who had a massive anaphylactic reaction resulting in PEA in the office. Believe it was Kenalog, but don't remember her name to find the chart. Gave epi and benedryl at the start, and patient grabbed the ET tube from my hand during the code.
 
Thank you for the update. I read the literature on Kenalog where it was written not for epidural use but did not find anything similar with Depomedrol. I am just using Depomedrol instead of Kenalog for LESI's and Celestone for TFESI.


I called the rep and there is no recall on Kenalog!
 
An individual patient can have anaphylaxis to anything, kenalog, dexamethasone, benadryl, epi and other drugs used to treat anaphylaxis, included. Is there a black box warning against penicillin pills because thousands of people have died from allergic reactions to them in the past? Is there a blanket black box warning against cancer chemotherapy because it can kill you? No, but, there is a black box warning against the new Butrans patch saying it "can be abused like other opioid agonists, legal or illicit". Shouldn't that be obvious to any competent prescriber, that an opiate that's been around for 30 years or more, that has always been potentially addictive, is still potentially addictive like all other opiates that have ever existed?

In the past, it was a physicians job and responsibility to know his treatments potential side effects and indications. Now we tag every potential bad outcome as a "BLACK BOX WARNING". Why? It's an "I told you so!" also known as lawyer fodder so that no matter what you do, and what outcome your patient has, they can point at some printed warning to show you were "negligent". So, in other words, its okay for them to let the drug go out on the public market, but not okay if you prescribe it and your patient has a complication.

Now, every drug under the sun needs to have a BLACK BOX WARNING about QTc prolongation and every other reason under the sun. Look down the list of the hundreds of drugs that prolong QTc. It includes some of the oldest most prescribed drugs in history (erythromycin, levaquin, zithromax {Zpak} and oxytocin given to almost every women in labor and a natural human hormone that all women have).

The FDA has issued so many "BLACK BOX WARNINGS" in the past 10 years, unfortunately people are starting to ignore them. Some of their "BLACK BOX WARNINGS" are not even warnings now. Some are simply a drugs indication, and not even a warning or danger. Example: Butrans patch "indicated for mod-severe chronic pain in pts requiring continuous, around-the-clock opioid analgesic for extended time period". These are more of your tax dollars wasted so bureaucrats can justify their existence. Sort of like when JACHO started requiring ERs to lock up topical antibiotic ointment in drug dispensing machines so patients couldn't eat them, because topical antibiotic is a "drug" and requiring blood cultures in 100% of admitted patients with pneumonia, whether they need them or not.

Now, I am not suggesting that anyone ignore black box warnings, but I am saying that they would be more effective if the FDA issued them more selectively and responsibly.
 
Depo-Medrol and Kenalog actually have the same warning it is just that on the Kenalog new label they put the warnings in bold at the top of the first page.

I am currently working with my hospital pharmacy on this issue. I am torn because I feel the patient's get the best clinical result with a particulate, but also provides possible legal exposure to my practice. I am considering doing first transforaminal with dexamethasone, if not effective repeating with particulate with additional consent provided the patient.

I am not really a Celestone fan either. The pain physicians who were practicing at my location before me utilize a compounded preservative-free Celestone. Almost every patient that I have done a repeat on with Kenalog has gotten dramatically better response. They always performed a series of 3 so may be they did not notice a problem.

how much dexamethasone are people using for their transforaminal? In fellowship we used 8 or 12 mg. I have been using 10 because I have dexamethasone provided in 10 mg per mL vials and that seems like a reasonable dose.
 
From my hosp pharmacist:

Hi Dr. ___,

From the studies I have read I agree that the risk of infarction is the same with triamcinolone, as with methylprednisolone, and betamethasone when used epidurally. However, that still does not help the issue that the FDA has decided to single out triamcinolone as of late so I have contacted the FDA to request more information and clarification regarding their disclaimer in the package insert. The representative I spoke with will be getting back to me with the information I requested. Once I receive it I will forward it to you. I hope this will turn out helpful. I will be in touch with more information shortly.

Thank you,

_____
 
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-ignored-on-steroid-shots-tied-to-deaths.html

an. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Doctors are still injecting a steroid made by Bristol-Myers Squibb Co. in a way the company warns they shouldn’t, following reports that patients have died or become paralyzed after receiving steroidal shots.
Bristol-Myers changed the label on its steroid Kenalog seven months ago to say that it’s “not recommended” for injection into the epidural space near the spine because of “reports of serious medical events, including death,” associated with administering steroids in that fashion. The label doesn’t specify if Kenalog patients died and a spokesman for the company declined to comment.
Used for neck and back pain, Kenalog and the Pfizer Inc. drug Depo-Medrol are the most frequently administered steroids in epidural injections. Over eight million such shots were given in the U.S. in 2010.
Physicians are either ignoring the Bristol-Myers warning or aren’t aware of it, according to doctors who use Kenalog or who work with others who do. “It is still being given in abundance,” said Christopher Gharibo, head of pain medicine in the anesthesiology department at NYU-Hospital for Joint Diseases in New York.
Neither Bristol-Myers nor the U.S. Food and Drug Administration publicized the revision, even though the FDA is reviewing the safety of epidural steroid shots. While not required to alert doctors or patients, the FDA has broadcast changes to other drugs’ prescribing information. In June, around the time the Kenalog label was rewritten, it issued a press release about a muscle injury risks warning that Merck & Co. applied to its Zocor cholesterol pill.
‘A Better Way’
The FDA should notify physicians in every case of a new caution and require companies to make changes to labels stand out, said Curt Furberg, an epidemiologist at the Wake Forest School of Medicine in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.
“I think they are irresponsible,” he said of the FDA.
Charles Bennett, a medication safety expert at the South Carolina College of Pharmacy in Charleston, said it’s the FDA’s duty to be more aggressive because most physicians “don’t even look at the label” on a drug they’ve used for years.
“There has to be a better way of making sure doctors know about very serious side effects of drugs,” he said.
Morgan Liscinsky, a spokesman for the agency, said decisions about taking steps such as issuing press releases are made on a “case by case basis.” She said a notice about the label change was e-mailed to 200,000 people who have signed up to receive agency safety alerts.
Reviewing Data
“The FDA acknowledges that communicating risk is challenging, and the agency remains committed to improving the capacity to provide the public with timely, accurate, evidenced- based safety information,” she said.
Bristol-Myers added the Kenalog warning after reviewing “post-marketing safety data,” said Ken Dominski, a spokesman for the New York-based company, in an e-mail. He said the company wouldn’t provide additional information.
The FDA -- which approves the prescribing information that companies write for their drugs -- declined to provide the data. Liscinsky said it would only be released through a Freedom of Information Act request, which can take months to process. Bloomberg filed one Jan. 13.
Manufacturers sometimes alert doctors to safety updates, which Bristol-Myers Squibb has done in the past with other drugs. Dominski didn’t explain why that wasn’t done with Kenalog.
Primary Suspects
The use of epidural steroid injections is booming, thanks to an aging population and generous reimbursement by insurers. The shots can calm inflamed nerves and are popular for easing pain in hips, knees and others parts of the body.
The FDA is conducting what Liscinsky called a “multi- faceted” review of epidural steroid shots and reports of serious complications. One focus is injections made with a transforaminal approach, which brings the needle within millimeters of critical arteries. Outside experts working with the agency on the review say they are also concerned about the use of so-called particulate steroids like Kenalog and Depo- Medrol, which may create blockages that could trigger strokes if accidentally shot into arteries.
Since 2004, epidural steroids have been cited as the primary suspect in serious complications suffered by 198 patients, according to an evaluation of FDA data performed for Bloomberg by AdverseEvents Inc., a company in Healdsburg, California, that analyzes drug safety reports and sells the results to drug makers, insurers and financial institutions.
‘Life-Threatening Events’
Depo-Medrol and generic versions were cited most often, in 90 of the cases, including in those of three people who died. Kenalog and generic equivalents were named as the main suspects in 88 cases. Three other steroids comprised the remaining 20 cases of serious complications.
In all, 52 of the patients were hospitalized, 30 suffered disabilities from their complications and 10 were listed as having “life-threatening events.” Bristol-Myers and Pfizer declined to comment on those numbers.
Other research into the injections has uncovered incidents of death or serious complications following pain shots. A survey of physicians reported in the journal Spine in 2007 found 78 cases where patients who got epidural steroids shots in the neck -- known as the cervical area of the upper spine -- suffered serious injuries; there were 13 deaths, all following injections of methylprednisolone, a steroid that includes Depo-Medrol and generic versions of the drug.
Little Reporting
In a separate review of case studies in medical journals, Mark Wallace, the author of the physicians’ survey, also found two cases in which patients died after epidural injections with the steroid triamcinolone, which is found in Kenalog. Wallace is chairman of the pain-medicine division for the University of California at San Diego’s health system.
The FDA posted a notice on its website in May 2010 that it has identified a “potential safety issue” with the class of steroids that includes Kenalog and Depo-Medrol, based on its own analysis of reports it’s received about complications. The FDA’s noting that there might be a risk doesn’t mean the agency has discovered a direct causal relationship, according to the site.
While manufacturers are supposed to tell the FDA about any adverse events they learn of, doctors and other health professionals are under no such obligation. Only 1 to 10 percent of drug-related complications are reported to the FDA, according to government estimates.
Kenalog Sales
U.S. sales of steroids used in epidural shots were $350 million in the first 11 months of 2011, according to IMS Health, a Danbury, Connecticut data firm, which said sales of Kenalog for all uses were 52 percent higher than those of Depo-Medrol. Kenalog sales were $112.3 million in those 11 months, compared to $113.2 million for full year 2010, IMS Health numbers show. Bristol-Myers wouldn’t disclose its sales of Kenalog for epidural use alone.
Depo-Medrol’s label doesn’t include a warning about epidural use. Pfizer spokeswoman Joan Campion said in an e-mail that epidural use of the steroid isn’t approved by the FDA and that “physicians should not administer the product” that way. As for why its competitor added a warning and Pfizer hasn’t, she said that while the two drugs are in the same class of products they are not the same product.
Generic drug makers must update their labels to reflect changes made to the brand-name version, according to the FDA.
‘No Absolute Safety’
No steroids are specifically approved for epidural injections and the drug makers haven’t on their labels recommended they be used that way. Doctors may administer them that way if they believe it’s medically beneficial, in what is called off-label use, even if a manufacturer’s prescribing information cautions against it.
At NYU-Hospital for Joint Diseases, Gharibo said he uses Kenalog because it’s effective and severe complications from epidural shots are rare, estimating the risk at one in 100,000.
“In injections, there is no absolute safety,” he said, adding that other steroids have comparable risks to Kenalog.
Richard Rosenquist, chairman of the pain management department at the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio, said doctors there use Kenalog epidural shots to treat neck and back pain because it works well. He added that he would have no reason to look at the label of a drug he’s been using “in a safe and efficacious fashion” for years.
“I am unlikely to go back and spend time reading the package insert unless I have been made aware of a change,” Rosenquist said.
 
"Since 2004, epidural steroids have been cited as the primary suspect in serious complications suffered by 198 patients, according to an evaluation of FDA data"...

"Over eight million such shots were given in the U.S. in 2010."

hmm... that means there was a serious complication rate of 0.0004125%.

God, i hope i stay lucky...
 
Take home message:

Dokters ar stoopid. Thay don now wat is in there drugs. Thay kill pople. They donat kare. Now gimme $5 millon dollers.
 
"Since 2004, epidural steroids have been cited as the primary suspect in serious complications suffered by 198 patients, according to an evaluation of FDA data"...

"Over eight million such shots were given in the U.S. in 2010."

hmm... that means there was a serious complication rate of 0.0004125%.

God, i hope i stay lucky...

these 198 cases herald an epidemic... at least to the lawyers...
 
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*Bump*


I'd be interested to hear an update of what people are using for various injections lately.

Having come from a fellowship that used boat loads of kenalog for ESIs (with very few if any serious complications from what I saw), I know that ideally anything epidural should be "preservative free". Kenalog, which has been much debated and has the "black box warning" doesn't come preservative free from what I've seen. Dexamethasone, of course can be ordered preservative free, though the general concensus seems to be that it's less efficacious for most epidural uses. Depo-medrol comes is single dose vials which has less "preservatives" than multidose, but I don't think is specifically preservative free (is it?). As far as Celestone/betamethasone, from what I can tell doesn't come specifically "preservative free" either, unless compounded by special request. Is this really necessary to be getting specially compounded "preservative free" meds? I know that most, if not all of the real data on the "preservative free" issue comes from intrathecal steroid use, and not so much from epidural use. Having started pulling out package inserts to look for where it says, "For epidural use", I haven't found any yet that specifically say this.

What are people using? Meds? Preservative free? Single dose, mult dose?
 
Was the triamcinolone issue discussed at ISIS last week?

I wasn't there but it looked like a review of steriods was planned. Spoke with the ISIS heads this past winter and they going to discuss steriods with the FDA, hoping the FDA would stop singling out triamcinolone.
 
You can get kenalog PF, but it has to be kept refrigerated, which causes precipitation, and is a bear to get back into solution.
 
You can get kenalog PF, but it has to be kept refrigerated, which causes precipitation, and is a bear to get back into solution.

Hmm,

I've been using preservative-free kenalog for years without refrigeration......no problems.

It does need to be shaken vigorously before injections.
 
i had preservative free Kenalog as well that didn't require refrigeration and the RN had to shake it quite a bit to get a good solution - once in solution, it tends to precipitate out of solution a lot slower than methylprednisolone - and tends to preciptate less than methylprednisolone when mixed with lidocaine...

i am now using betamethasone... the preservative is benzyl alcohol (which can be neuritic as well) --- but most of the other steroids have benzyl alcohol as well... so go figure. .
 
I have now tried Celestone, Depo-Medrol, and preservative free triamcinolone, all as alternatives to standard Kenalog. I have little doubt that none of these gave my patient's equal relief to name brand Kenalog. That is what I am now back to using. I still use dexamethasone for transforaminals.
 
I have now tried Celestone, Depo-Medrol, and preservative free triamcinolone, all as alternatives to standard Kenalog. I have little doubt that none of these gave my patient's equal relief to name brand Kenalog. That is what I am now back to using. I still use dexamethasone for transforaminals.

Nice. I'm glad to know there are other people out there using it so I don't feel like the lone ranger
 
Nice. I'm glad to know there are other people out there using it so I don't feel like the lone ranger

I will occasinally use it for s1 TFESI. For ILESI, always using depomedrol. Most TFESI get Dexamethasone (90%).
 
so... for the month of august i did all TFESIs with dex... all are now coming back for f/u
consensus:
1) noticed quicker/prompter relief (good)
2) relief lasted between 24 hours and 1 week (bad)
3) all are requesting repeat TFESI w/ kenalog like they used to get...

hmmm... i have gone back to kenalog... it does have benzyl alcohol as preservative..



Dex sucks
 
What's the difference in the S1 TFESI vs the ILESI?

Why use a different steroid for those (if you use dex for the TFESI)


numbers game.

The artery of Adam can be as low as L5/s1. As a result at this level and above I will use Dex if I do a TFESI.

If I'm at s1 and will be doing a tFESI, teh chances of the artery adam being there is minimaly, so I'm more comfortable using some kenalog TFESI there.

In terms of ILESI. I use depot, because I thought it lasts longer and there is no FDA label against epidural use.
 
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