Hpsp Faq

(courtesy Texdrake)

FAQ by Lt. Ellenbecker

1. What are the benefits?

Monthly Stipend of roughly $600 every 2 weeks for 21 pay periods + 3 pay periods at rank pay (2nd Lt) for completion of yearly ADT training

Total Yearly Pay in School (approximate): $12,600 + $3,800 = $16,400 after taxes

All Books, Fees, and Tuition to the medical school of your choice paid

Adventure, jazz, props from the public, a nifty uniform, and the sense of pride

Rank of 2Lt while in school and promotion to Captain upon graduation. Almost all military physicians make Major before their commitment is up.

2. What are the requirements?

Pass Physical Fitness standards

Enroll in an accredited US medical school

apply and be selected (automatic acceptance is 3.5 GPA and 29 MCAT)

3. What is the payback?

One year of service per year of scholarship received. Military residencies do count as payback HOWEVER, you also accrue one year of payback for each year of residency after your FYGME year. In other words you can complete one extra year of residency past your level of commitment without incurring more time. (4 year scholarship recipients can do 5 years of post grad training without accruing more time)

In most cases one must complete their internship (FYGME in military lingo) year with the military

One must apply to military residencies and if selected must take that residency. If one is not available in your field or you are not selected you will be deferred to a civilian residency.

4. What will I make as a physician in the military?

These are new figures calculated as of 2005 for a 4 year scholarship. I have factored in the cost of medical school education, stipend amount, and interest avoided to come up with a true scholarship value. This will then be calculated into what you receive in pay over the lifetime of your commitment. Pay is fairly comparable for the fields of FP, PEDS, and IM. ER is not far behind.


Scholarship Value

Medical School Education Loans Saved * 4 years: $154,000
Interest Saved: $25,000
Stipend Pay * 4 years: $65,000

Total Scholarship Value (4 years): $244,000 (61K per year of commitment)


Military Pay

Pay: 46K (Captain)
BAH: 10k (housing allowance)
BAS: 2K (food allowance)
VSP: 5K (specialty pay based on years)
BCP: 2.5K (board certification pay)
MASP: 15K (flat pay given to all doctors)
ISP: 13.5K (independent specialty pay based on specialty (FP or IM))

Total Military Pay yearly: $94,000

Avg. Malpractice Saving (FP & IM): $12,000

Yearly Compensation for 4 year commitment: $167,000
(Military Pay + Malpractice Savings + Scholarship Value)
(I did not take into account that a portion is not taxed)


Comparisons

Average starting salary for IM – Malpractice: $155,000 (after 3 years 172K)
Average Starting salary for FP – Malpractice: $135,000 (after 3 years 151K)


Military Pay Post-Commitment

After commitment is up, one looses the loan advantage and equivalent pay drops to about $106,000 per year.


Retirement?

Military retirement is 0% vested until 20 years, after which it becomes fully vested at ½ base salary (add 2.5% for each additional year up to mandatory retirement at 30 years). Most physicians that choose to stay till retirement will be Lt. Colonels. This means a yearly retirement pay of about $30-$35,000 plus lifetime healthcare benefits.

Time in school is considered IRR butt does NOT count toward retirement.

5. What will I make as a resident?
A lot more....the average civilian resident makes 35-40K

1st year (FYGME): Base Pay + BAH + BAS + 100 monthly for VSP = 59K

Residents: Base Pay + BAH + BAS + full VSP = 63K

6. Physical Standards

You must meet officer height and weight requirements for all 3 branches to get the scholarship and periodically while in the military. The air force also has a PT test as part of the selection process. Each service does height/weight different.

The Army gives you two chances. First is height/weight. If you don't meet requirements then they measure hip and neck circumference and use some quirky formula.

As best I can tell the height/weight requirements for an army officer is 18 lbs above ideal body weight for those under 27 years of age.

Women, Ideal Body Weight is = 105 + (5 * the # of inches above 5 feet tall)
Men, Ideal Body Weight is = 106 + (6 * the # of inches above 5 feet tall)

Example: 5’10” Male = 106+60+18 = 184.

7. Where will I do residencies/rotations?

http://www.mods.army.mil/MedicalEducation/

8. Where can I get more info about HPSP and applying?

The Best Site for unbiased HPSP info is http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html

9. Why the Army? Or why not?

Why did I select the Army? Several reasons actually. I have family history in the Army which made me lean one way, but the Army has a lot more scholarships and residencies then the other branches. I applied later in the year so my best shot was in the Army. I have found the Air Force to be equally appealing if you can apply early enough. I felt that if I did a civilian residency it would be harder to re-enter the military world and work off my commitment. The Navy had some drawbacks for me personally, mainly in the form of the required GMO tour and the extended deployments, but a few actually like this. Not to mention the Navy has great base locations. I think branch of service is more a personal choice than anything else.

10. Is the four year obligation really only four years, or can a "stop-loss" order keep you in much longer? When does my commitment really end?

A stop-loss order in a time of war could keep you in, however it is unlikely and they tend not to keep you in for to long under those circumstances.

All current military contracts are 8 years in length. In the case of a 4 years scholarship, ones contract would be for 4 years active duty and 4 years inactive ready reserve (IRR). While HPSP students are IRR, their time does NOT count. If a student did a military residency in FP (3 years) and then paid back his/her commitment (4 years), they would still have one year of IRR.

11. Assuming a four year obligation after residency, how many times can they make you move (not counting a deployment, of course)?

At most I would think 3 or 4. A necessary move for residency, maybe a couple during your commitment time and possibly a different site for you internship year.

12. If HPSP students are in the reserves during medical school, can they be called up (in the event of a conflict, for instance) even though they have not completed their medical education for regular reserve duty?

NO. Under no way can you be pulled out of school or your 1st year of residency (the internship), if we were at war and it was a big one, you could be pulled out after that and before you finish residency. This WAS NOT done during the war in Iraq. HSPS students are IRR not active reserves.

13. State School, private school, or daddy's pocket?

You should not take the scholarship for just the money. You will regret it. You must have a desire to serve or a curiosity to serve in the military. The military is not for everyone. That being said, you will regret taking this scholarship if you are going to a state school (or any medical school costing under 15K a year). The money you will make early in your career would easily offset such a cheap education loan. You will feel like you are being ripped off royally.

14. What about after graduation?

The military requires that you apply for a military internship year (FYGME). If you are selected for FYGME you must do it. Also most people ARE selected. Your FYGME will either be in your field of choice (possibly fast tracked into a residency) or done as a traditional rotating intership year.

The military requires that you apply to 3-5 military residencies during your 4th year of medical school, if you don't match in your field you can defer out and do a civilian residency after your FYGME year. If you do match you must accept.

Many military residencies are a little bit less intense (more book time, but you see a little less). You also get paid about 20K more per year in the military.

If you don't match after your FYGME year you are automatically deffered, the military will not make you train in a field you don't want to.

Some people choose to get out as quickly as possible by delaying their residency and completing the rest of their commitment as a GMO. This of course delays your training quite a bit and pays more than a resident, but not a bunch. It does get you out quicker though. Be advised that if you take this option it may be difficult to land a civilian residency in a specialty field.
__________________

(courtesy r90t)

The navy's biggest "drawback" in medical education is the GMO tour(s).

The problems with this is...you do your internship, then an operational tour rather than continuing through residency. If you do a military residency after a GMO tour, you will be in longer than 4 years, i.e. the payback time for HPSP. Also, some people feel that you don't have enough knowledge to function independently post internship. We are credentialed to do a finite amount of procedures prior to going to sea by our operational commanders. Army and AF may be different, but navy doesn't have a bunch of cowboys trying to do a general surgery on board a destoyer.

The good points for the GMO tour. You are operational and you see what the hardships are for your sailors. The stressors of 2 eight month back to back deployments are great. You will gain an understanding of problems people develop, both mental and physical. Your GME choices often change. The majority of my friends who did a GMO changed their prefererce for residency selection. Usually, they got married, had kids, or some other major event and did not want to spend the next 4 years of their life chained to a ward or OR. Family time overrode work time. It is also a good break from training to recharge.

I will assume that AF, Army and USN all turn out the same quality of physicians from their teaching programs.

The navy, IMO, has nicer places to be stationed than the other services. Most of our real estate is coastal.

(courtesy bobbyseal)

Here are some links that may help people out there who are with the Navy.

Link for applying to get orders (AT)
https://nows.cnrf.navy.mil/nrows/

Pay information
http://www.dfas.mil/

Medical Corps Detailer
http://www.persnet.navy.mil/pers4415/medical_corps.htm

Naval Medical Education and Training Command
http://nshs.med.navy.mil/Professiona...20Programs.htm

Navy Pay Calculator and Retirement Calculator (No more sifting through pay tables!!!)
http://www.staynavy.navy.mil/

Naval Medical Center Portsmouth
http://www-nmcp.med.navy.mil/

Naval Medical Center San Diego
http://www-nmcsd.med.navy.mil/

National Naval Medical Center Bethesda
http://www.bethesda.med.navy.mil/

Navy Sports (Spanking Army on a yearly basis!)
http://www.navysports.com/

6. Where will I do residencies/rotations?

http://www.mods.army.mil/MedicalEdu...on/GmeDelay.asp

Anybody have a link to this that works? Thanks

Originally Posted by Cerberus

Anybody have a link to this that works? Thanks

here's one with pretty much all the army hospitals that have training programs-- just click one the "links" link

http://www.mods.army.mil/MedicalEducation/

One more requirment like any other military officer, you must apply and get a security clearance.

BS.

A first year medical student reservist here at UCSD was recently deployed to Iraq.

Originally Posted by Pediatron47

BS.

A first year medical student reservist here at UCSD was recently deployed to Iraq.

Was s/he HPSP? No. Was s/he in the Reserves? Yes. Is HPSP the same as being in the reserves? No.

Study before calling BS, Mr. or Mrs. Rude.

Speaking of reserves, with Army HPSP for all four years of medical school, how long is the reserve service obligation after residency and active duty?

All current day military contracts are 8 years. So I imagine that if you were 4 years IRR (as in school) and four years payback, plus residency that you would be done at the end of your commitment.

Ah, I see. Well, the time spent in medical school with HPSP (at least Army) does NOT count towards reserve time, only in residency. I also believe that your required service also does not count towards reserve time. Both of these according to the HPSP Handbook Highlights thread. So, it would be four years in the reserves considering a four year residency, no fellowship, and no extra time spent beyond your commitment as full-time military.

So, I'm on a 3 year HPSP scholarship. Is it still an 8 year contract? If I plan to do a 3 year military residency, will I have 3 years of active duty commitment and 2 years of IRR after?

Originally Posted by Pediatron47

BS.

A first year medical student reservist here at UCSD was recently deployed to Iraq.

Simply updating his/her MAS code as a reservist would have prevented that. It pays to listen when admin talks.

Hey there - I hate to break the anonymity bubble, but I would really like to speak with someone about this:

I'm really close to signing for the Air Force HPSP, and I have some questions about COT and the "45-day summer active duty." As I'm signing within the next month, I'd like to chat with someone who's gone through it and could talk a little about it. The Luke Ballard page is great -- I'd just like a more recent perspective. Feel free to PM me or e-mail, and I'd be happy to call on your schedule. Any info would help.

I am considering going in the Army and be a psychiatrist.

Although, medicine has been my primary choice of career, I was intimidated by cutting up a cadaver. Therefore, as a result, I have changed my degrees and career paths. Now, that I am a bit older I feel that being in the Army (I was prior service) and be a psychiatrist is what I want to do.

How can I be guaranteed that I won't be sick call doctor instead? For those who have recently gone to the program, please give me any pointers.

I have been thinking about this program now for a few years. Maybe if I know what to expect, I won't be as intimidated. As far as being a soldier or the possibility of deploying, I am ready for that.

Any feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Beep

Hi all,

I'm considering the HPSP scholarship but haven't actually spoken with a recruiter yet. I'm a little wary of how much objective information I would be able to get out of him or her as compared to people who have actually gone through the experience themselves.

I will be graduating from college this year (plan to take a year off), have a 36R, 3.9 GPA, so I think that if I applied for the HPSP, I would have a good shot at getting it in whichever branch I would want? My question is - I've heard from my friends (who go to Westpoint, USAFA, and Naval Academy) that females are treated differently in the branches? I know that if I asked recruiters that question, they would have to say, "Absolutely not," but is there any truth to that outside of the academies?

Are there any female doctors who post on this (or even medical students/residents) who could comment on their experiences, how things work with family planning (what happens if you get pregnant...do you get paid time off and maternity leave?) Also, I know that in the Navy, females are not allowed on submarines - is that true for ships too?

Please feel free to message me if you have any advice/comments/links to other posts. Since I'm taking a year off, I guess I have a long time to think about this, but it's a huge decision to make, so I'd like to have as much information and time as possible. Thanks so much!

Originally Posted by WenfeiX

Hi all,

I'm considering the HPSP scholarship but haven't actually spoken with a recruiter yet. I'm a little wary of how much objective information I would be able to get out of him or her as compared to people who have actually gone through the experience themselves.

I will be graduating from college this year (plan to take a year off), have a 36R, 3.9 GPA, so I think that if I applied for the HPSP, I would have a good shot at getting it in whichever branch I would want? My question is - I've heard from my friends (who go to Westpoint, USAFA, and Naval Academy) that females are treated differently in the branches? I know that if I asked recruiters that question, they would have to say, "Absolutely not," but is there any truth to that outside of the academies?

Are there any female doctors who post on this (or even medical students/residents) who could comment on their experiences, how things work with family planning (what happens if you get pregnant...do you get paid time off and maternity leave?) Also, I know that in the Navy, females are not allowed on submarines - is that true for ships too?

Please feel free to message me if you have any advice/comments/links to other posts. Since I'm taking a year off, I guess I have a long time to think about this, but it's a huge decision to make, so I'd like to have as much information and time as possible. Thanks so much!

I think that you should start a new thread with this topic. You should definitely get some responses , as there are several females who have posted.

BTW, WOW!!!, your GPA and MCAT are incredible!!! You could probably get a scholarship through some med schools for being really F'n smart. Glad you not in my class

Originally Posted by WenfeiX

My question is - I've heard from my friends (who go to Westpoint, USAFA, and Naval Academy) that females are treated differently in the branches? I know that if I asked recruiters that question, they would have to say, "Absolutely not," but is there any truth to that outside of the academies?

Please feel free to message me if you have any advice/comments/links to other posts. Since I'm taking a year off, I guess I have a long time to think about this, but it's a huge decision to make, so I'd like to have as much information and time as possible. Thanks so much!

Exactly--you aren't treated any differently in many ways. That means you could be stationed in the middle of nowhere where your spouse has no chance of finding a job and just be expected to deal with being a single parent or away from your kids for years. You will be expected to deploy, despite having young children of your own, unless of course you get pregnant again. On the other hand, if you are pregnant, you are not deployable for a few months after you have your kids, however you can be restationed in the USA if necessary.

If you want to have a family before you're in your mid-30s and able to get out of your HPSP, don't do it. You need to retain your flexibility and stability in order to have a stable, nuclear family of your own. One exception would be marrying someone in the military, though militaryMD's wife was also a military doc and they were still several hundred miles apart. The other option is to find a man who's willing to sacrifice their own career for yours. Good luck with that one. It will probably be necessary when you have very limited residency location options and then get stationed in the middle of nowhere.

I think I may have been misinformed:
When does your first active duty period, OIS or COT, begin for a 4-year HPSP? Is it the summer before your first year of med school, or is it the summer between the first and second year?

Does you active duty pay start at this time (during officer training)?

Originally Posted by AubreyMaturin

I think I may have been misinformed:
When does your first active duty period, OIS or COT, begin for a 4-year HPSP? Is it the summer before your first year of med school, or is it the summer between the first and second year?

Does you active duty pay start at this time (during officer training)?

Most people do their 1st ADT prior to entering school. You do get 45 days of AD pay. Steve

Originally Posted by USAF MD '05

Most people do their 1st ADT prior to entering school. You do get 45 days of AD pay. Steve

Perhaps that is the case in the AF. It is not the case in the Army unless you are at USUHS. That is not to say that you can't go to OBC before you start school, but the vast majority of HPSPers go after their first year.

Geo

Hi all, Thank you all for taking the time to place your comments on here they are incredibly insightful, particularly for those considering applying for an HPSP scholarship. I have some specific questions that I would appreciate any and all comments/suggestions/feedback on any or all of my questions:

A brief background: I am primarily interested in the NAVY, as I would like to do GMO tour and save residency till after (primarily because I am interested in Neurology and residencies in Neurology do not tend to be as good in the armed services, as they shouldn’t be). I graduated from school in 2001 (so I’m already on the “older side”) and have been doing research at a hospital in Boston (I’ve already been accepted to med school).

1) It appears that individual satisfaction with one’s time during payback depends on: placement/location/proximity to family and length of time in service. To what extent can you control this? (e.g. applying for placement at a certain base/hospital?)

1a) I have heard of people stationed in the same spot for a majority of their 4-year payback (Dive Docs, flight surgeons), are their others or is this an exception?

2) What is the % of people deployed in wartime? Semi-wartime (Iraq, now)? To what extent does it depend on where/with who you are stationed?

3) What is the % of people of get their first choice of base/hospital? This application process depends on? med school scores? Rec letters? Time in service?

4) If one is deployed over sees, to what extent does the NAVY support moving a young family with you? Is it financially/logistically possible?

5) As a GMO is it more common to split your payback time between hospitals or in one spot? Do you have any say in this?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
-reg

Reg, I would start a new thread with this question and maybe you'll get some answers. You could also try PMing some of the more prolific Navy posters on the board. There's already been some threads about this, so I would recommend doing a search, reading about some old answers, getting some good contacts, and go from there. I could give you my opinion, but because I know little about the Navy, I can't really help you with your questions.

Good luck!

So with HPSP, if I take the scholarship for 4 years, I go through med school, choose whatever residency I want (or do I have to choose a military residency?), and THEN pay it back with 4 years of service?

Originally Posted by liverfingers

So with HPSP, if I take the scholarship for 4 years, I go through med school, choose whatever residency I want (or do I have to choose a military residency?), and THEN pay it back with 4 years of service?

dude. seriously. you need to do some research on your own. Read the HPSP paperwork, go to the website, contact a recruiter. Some of these questions are so basic to the concept of the mil programs that it just makes it seem like you are basing everything on the info given at this forum.

i understand that this place is a haven of information and i literally spent every second when i first considered the program reading archived posts. That said, you should check out the stickies and read them in depth...they have a huuge amount of info.

i also understand that the whole concept of military med might be new and exciting (as it was for me) and you might not feel comfortable contacting a recruiter, so i will try to help with your question.

"if I take the scholarship for 4 years, I go through med school"...
--> yes. at some point you go to officer training and you are committed to Active Duty Training during your summers from medical school....meaning rotations at military hospitals.

"choose whatever residency I want (or do I have to choose a military residency?)"
--> just like in the civilian world, you need to MATCH into a residency program. (not just choose what you would like - this depends on grades, board scores, etc...). Then when you match, you go through a military internship which is followed by either a military residency, or a GMO assignment. Alternatively, you could match to a civilian deferment through HPSP (not the case at USUHS). This however, is rare. A

"and THEN pay it back with 4 years of service?"
--> So, you either go through residency and THEN pay back your 4 years. OR, you do 2 GMO tours which last 2 years each, and then you are free. Some of the more competitive residencies in the military would require a GMO tour before residency, so that 2 year GMO tour counts towards you payback.

please please read those stickies and the other posts in the forum. im not saying the questions you arent asking arent valid, they are. But, some people have had different experiences with how everything goes down and it is worth it to read up on what the military can do. I highly recommend the Pro/Con's of MilMed Sticky including Viewpoints.

hope this helps....disclaimer: i havent gone through any of this....the info i offer is from the material that i have researched as well as the info given by those who have gone through it on this forum....the whole point of everyone posting on the forum is to help people make INFORMED DECISIONS, so read read read and inform yourself

Originally Posted by TheGoose

dude. seriously. you need to do some research on your own. Read the HPSP paperwork, go to the website, contact a recruiter. Some of these questions are so basic to the concept of the mil programs that it just makes it seem like you are basing everything on the info given at this forum.

I was initially too lazy to look it up but then ended up researching it myself anyways but thanks

**gives crooked eye look** at possibility of "being too lazy" to make a decision impacting over 11 years of your life =D

I have a couple HPSP questions-

1. when you apply for military residencies as an MS4, if you match into a military residency do you still do an intern year? if you dont match within military but do match civilian do you still do a military intern year before you attend the civilian residency?

2.do military docs see combat? I know I will be deployed but is that to a hospital within the greenzone or while I be shot at daily?

Any info regarding these two subjects would be greatly appreciated thanks.

Originally Posted by helicobacter

I have a couple HPSP questions-

1. when you apply for military residencies as an MS4, if you match into a military residency do you still do an intern year? if you dont match within military but do match civilian do you still do a military intern year before you attend the civilian residency?

2.do military docs see combat? I know I will be deployed but is that to a hospital within the greenzone or while I be shot at daily?

Any info regarding these two subjects would be greatly appreciated thanks.

First, do you have a specific service in which you are interested? I ask because the GME application process is different for each.

However, you will always do an internship. You might be confused by the nomenclature. As an example, let's assume you match into an Orthopedic Surgery residency. Your first year of that residency program will still be an internship (PGY-1), but you will be what's known as a categorical intern, meaning that you are specifically an Orthopedic Surgery intern.

If you do not match into a military program, you will not be doing a military internship. In the Navy, you would likely be granted a one year deferment for internship, followed by a call to active duty for completion of a General Medical Officer (GMO) tour.

I'll leave the combat zone questions to someone with more specific experience.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead-to-MD

First, do you have a specific service in which you are interested? I ask because the GME application process is different for each.

However, you will always do an internship. You might be confused by the nomenclature. As an example, let's assume you match into an Orthopedic Surgery residency. Your first year of that residency program will still be an internship (PGY-1), but you will be what's known as a categorical intern, meaning that you are specifically an Orthopedic Surgery intern.

If you do not match into a military program, you will not be doing a military internship. In the Navy, you would likely be granted a one year deferment for internship, followed by a call to active duty for completion of a General Medical Officer (GMO) tour.

I'll leave the combat zone questions to someone with more specific experience.

Thanks for the quick response,

I am specifically considering the army and either Gen. surg. to trauma surg or categorical neurosurg.

Could you elaborate on what a GMO actually is, is this navy specific?

If I did not match military, but I do match civilian would I be granted a deferrment or is that unlikely?

Originally Posted by helicobacter

Thanks for the quick response,

I am specifically considering the army and either Gen. surg. to trauma surg or categorical neurosurg.

Could you elaborate on what a GMO actually is, is this navy specific?

If I did not match military, but I do match civilian would I be granted a deferrment or is that unlikely?

I am Navy, so my knowledge of the Army-specific details is extremely limited.

General Medical Officer tours, although perhaps only referred to as such by the Navy, exist in all of the services. They are tours in which the physician serves in an operational and/or primary care capacity. In the Navy, this commonly happens after internship, but before residency training (although they are trying to transition to utilizing residency trained individuals in these positions).

Regarding the match: the military match occurs earlier than the civilian match (results released in mid-December). At that point, you would know whether or not you matched into a military program. If not, you would likely be given one of two options: (1) Deferment for 1-year internship or (2) Full deferment for residency training. Keep in mind that this is applicable to the Navy, but may not be the case for the Army. I do not know if the Army utilizes the one year deferment option.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by helicobacter

Thanks for the quick response,

I am specifically considering the army and either Gen. surg. to trauma surg or categorical neurosurg.

Could you elaborate on what a GMO actually is, is this navy specific?

If I did not match military, but I do match civilian would I be granted a deferrment or is that unlikely?

General Surgery is actually a bit of an odd-ball in the Army, in that they are just about the only specialty left that requires you to reapply during your PGY-1 year. For most others, you apply during your MS4 year, and you'll be assigned a residency and internship (may be at different locations). During your internship you are tagged as a pre-select in whatever field (so, an intern going into Anesthesiology would be an Anesthesiology pre-select in a transitional internship). For General Surgery in the Army, you do a surgery prelim internship, and reapply for a PGY-2 spot in General Surgery. This used to be the standard for many other residencies, but they have since all moved to continual contracts (just have to match once as an MS4). Clear as mud?

The military will tell you something, come December of your fourth year. They may tell you that you matched your specialty of choice in the military, or might just say that they have a nice internship for you. Once the military puts you somewhere for GME, you are required to withdraw from the civilian match. Whatever they say, goes. If you really wanted that Neurosurgery residency, but the Army decided they didn't want you for it, you can't just decide to hold out and see if you match in the civilian world. You can only match with a civilian program if the military grants you a civilian deferral. Even then, its for what they specifically granted the deferrment--no asking for a deferral in Neurosurgery, then matching into a civilian Peds residency.

Hi, i know you probably all have gone through this a million times but i'm still not understanding exacly what is the time commitment after med shcool graduation. I understand that there is an 8 year commitement not 4 years as i previously thought. My questions specifically are:

Does the military residency (assuming I match to one) count toward active service?

what exactly happens during the 4 year non-active reserves duty- do they only call you when they need you or do i have to work in a military hospital until my 8 years are over?

I woulld really appreciate any info, thanks. also, if any of you are going to NYCOM my screen name on AIM is ohai1282, please contact me.

Originally Posted by DO2B802

Hi, i know you probably all have gone through this a million times but i'm still not understanding exacly what is the time commitment after med shcool graduation. I understand that there is an 8 year commitement not 4 years as i previously thought. My questions specifically are:

Does the military residency (assuming I match to one) count toward active service?

what exactly happens during the 4 year non-active reserves duty- do they only call you when they need you or do i have to work in a military hospital until my 8 years are over?

I woulld really appreciate any info, thanks. also, if any of you are going to NYCOM my screen name on AIM is ohai1282, please contact me.

Although your time in military residency will be an active duty years, counting towards your retirement, THEY will not count as a part of your obligation. Thus obligation years = post residency years. However if your residency years are longer than your years of scholarship then you are required to serve exactly equal to your years trained in the military residency.

Also the military can call you when they need you like in time of war during 4 year non-active reserves duty. During this time you can work in a civilian hospital.

Sir,
this is a great FAQ--thank you for maintaining it! I humbly submit the following for inclusion:

1. What are the benefits?

Performance Tickets from the USO: orchestral, theatrical, opera, ballet, etc. Here in Boston, we're constantly offerred Blue Man Group tickets, and annual tickets to the July 4th dress rehearsal (Boston Pops 1812 Overture on the Charles River Esplanade, last year had Mormon Tabernacle Choir, Liann Rimes (sp?), et al.).

Space Available travel. Free flights on military or DoD-chartered aircraft. Active duty + retired eligible for CONUS/OCONUS, with dependents. During HPSP/med school, CONUS only, no dependents. Most overseas ("OCONUS") options available from Baltimore-Washington Int'l, MD; Dover AFB, DE; Travis AFB, CA.

4. What will I make as a physician in the military?

While I understand you used average figures for your calculations, you might indicate ranges for some of the items. E.g.:

- Medical Education Loans Saved * 4 years: $154,000 Sounds a little low to me: our school (admittedly on the high side) is estimated at $70,000 per year, * 4 years ~= $280,000

- Military Pay: BAH of $10k (~$833/mo) sounds low. For example, Barksdale AFB, LA (low end?), zip code 71110, O-3 is $995 without dependents, $1313 with. Hanscom AFB, MA (high end?), zip code 01731, O-3 is $1857 without dependents, $2215 with. May I suggest a range of $1000-$2000 per month, $12k-$24k per year, is more accurate? (Source: dfas.mil/dtic.mil)

- ISP: $13.5k sounds low. Only 6 of 23 specialties on the pay table have ISP in this range ($14k or less). The others are in the $15k-$36k range. Perhaps a higher estimate is warranted? (Source: dfas.mil, pay table eff. 1 Jan 2005)

- Military Pay Post-Committment: "looses" should be "loses"

5. What will I make as a resident?
Again, the BAH estimate might be too low.

7. Where will I do residencies/rotations?
Might you mention the "deferred" (i.e. civilian) residency option here?

Also, USAF sites are available at:
http://ci.afit.edu/cimj/adt_locations.asp


Thanks for maintaining the FAQ!

-BlueSkies

Originally Posted by blueSkies

Performance Tickets from the USO: orchestral, theatrical, opera, ballet, etc. Here in Boston, we're constantly offerred Blue Man Group tickets, and annual tickets to the July 4th dress rehearsal (Boston Pops 1812 Overture on the Charles River Esplanade, last year had Mormon Tabernacle Choir, Liann Rimes (sp?), et al.).

-BlueSkies

Hi Blue Skies,

We're also in Boston, but don't receive this benefit... My fiance is currently finishing his first year of medical school on a Navy HPSP scholarship. When should we begin to receive free tickets to local performances?

Thanks!

Who am I, and why am I here? A candidate for V.P of the U.S. once began his nomination speech with this question.

I am a 52 year old Intern in Family Practice. I graduated Med School in '83. The reason I went to Med School was to become a Neurosurgeon. I was in the top 20% or so in my class, hard to tell exactly with Pass Fail. I got an 85% on my Part One. I started Neurosurgery at MCP and when the program lost accreditation I transferred to Northwestern as a PGY-5 in 1988. I was dismmissed (fired) in 1990.

I owed the Army for HPSP so I was sent to Panama, I had 10 years of deferred IRR so I made Major in months and was put in charge of the Fort Clayton Health Clinic until I returned to CONUS in '94 to be OIC of the ER at Ft Eustis. When I got out I was offered a job in Primary Care and as I had children going to college soon and was in no hurry to return to the joys of Residency after my previous experience I took the job.

After 10 years of Army employment as a Civil Servant and my "little one" had just graduated from college I decided continuing to play doctor without Board Eligibility was becoming increasingly untenable I appled to a local Family Practice Residency that as luck would have it is probably one of the best.

To answer the question from my perspective of 15 years of experience in military medicine, it really depends on what you want to be when you grow up. If you want to do Internal Medicine, or OB, or even Gen Surg I suppose HPSP might be worth looking at.

If you want to do something that is harder to get and has fewer openings, like Neurosurgery, ENT, Ophtho, or whatever it probably isn't smart unless your dad is a general or a senator or if you are a Service School grad (West Point or Annapolis, etc.)

The military has plenty of training for you to train on AD in Peds or FP, etc. which you want to do because you get paid better and it evens out the "less pay" as a staff physician. Also if you get screwed like I did, you have plenty of options to finish your training in another program. In Neurosurgery the Consultant to the Army Surgeon General knew the jerk that screwed me and before I could do anything I was in a foreign country trying to save my carreer (unsuccessfully).

So this is something you might want to consider. Sure the Recrutier told me as a Freshman, "There won't be any trouble getting Neurosurgery Training in the Army, we have a residency at Walter Reed." I was a little dismayed to find out when I went there for a 4th yr rotation that of the 5 residents (one per year) 4 were West Point Grads and the other's dad was a general. So unless you have serious pull, forget training in the military in one of those low numbers, hard to get residencies.

Once you finish training in the specialty of your choice what will you do? Well, if you train in Gen. Surgery you might be dismayed to find out that you get sent to a hospital with no ICU, no "step down", no this or that and you are limited to doing the occaisional appendectomy and lots of colonoscopies. Makes you wonder why you spent years learning to do a Whipple, doesn't it? If you do Ortho you may find that you get sent to a hospital that is a Community Hospital and the military has a Reg. that "no spine surgery will be performed at commuinty hospitals, only Med Cens." I suppose that is O.K. if you don't care for spine anyway, and I suppose nowdays Orthpods have to do fellowships to do Spine anyway, but you get my drift.

As other posters have pointed out, the most aggressive docs tend to bail at first opportunity. There is a strange phenomenon at work in the military. At ranks above Major, the nurses are the best paid in the U.S. so Army nurses tend to be very competetive, very aggressive, and supercharged. The Army Docs above Major tend to be some of the least aggressive Docs in America. It creates a strange situation. The hospital commander is in charge but is constantly giving in to the Director of Nursing who usually pounds that table and in other ways plays hardball. So anytime it comes to nurses vs. docs, guess who wins. You will be doing things that nurses in civilian life do because of this. Several years ago Congress recognized this little flaw and changed the rules so now anyone can be a hosital commander. They seem to like physical therapists, so who knows what that is going to turn into.

If you really want to be a "medicine manager" you might seriously consider military medicine, because as you progress in rank as a senior Major or LTC you will be given more and more management responsibilities and less and less patient care. If this is what you want, certainly go for it. When you retire as an 0-6 you are pretty well positioned to manage a clinic or small hospital I am sure. Who knows, you may even be one of the handful who "get a star" and can do 30 yrs. and retire for keeps.

I hope I haven't come across as too cynical, I have really tried to be objective. If anyone wants to b-mail me you can but I have pretty much laid it out here. If others have different opinions, realize they have different perspectives. My military experience was not in Med Cens, but from what I understand from folks I BS'd with over the years they are perhaps a notch above VAs. I do have experience with some 6 different VAs over the years.

Our military does need people and we are a nation at war. If you really feel you should contribute (which to my way of thinking everyone who is able should, my family has had someone in uniform in almost every conflict right back to the Revolution) join up after you finish school and residency and make the military come to your terms. You may find them falling all over themselves if you have no obligation, and if getting a slot you don't want means you walk you probably won't ever be offered anything you don't want.

Originally Posted by wastoute

join up after you finish school and residency and make the military come to your terms. You may find them falling all over themselves if you have no obligation, and if getting a slot you don't want means you walk you probably won't ever be offered anything you don't want.

Outstanding piece of advice!!!!

Originally Posted by militarymd

Outstanding piece of advice!!!!

outstanding agreement on some outstanding advice.

you can still serve your country,still get the bills paid, and please believe me when I say that if you wait, you will at least be able to call some of the shots (and if you can't call some of the shots nowadays, you will likely regret your decision).

Originally Posted by wastoute

join up after you finish school and residency and make the military come to your terms. You may find them falling all over themselves if you have no obligation, and if getting a slot you don't want means you walk you probably won't ever be offered anything you don't want.

This is exactly what my plan is. Since med school seems like a far off place right now, I'm not overly concerned. However when the time comes that's my plan exactly. I would need to do 10 years to retire but the more docs I meet who get out with 14+ the less inclined I am to go back in.

BTW, great post!

Originally Posted by Homunculus

(courtesy Texdrake)

FAQ by Lt. Ellenbecker
...

7. Where will I do residencies/rotations? [/B]

http://www.mods.army.mil/MedicalEducation/
...

__________________

I'm having trouble getting that link to work - can someone doublecheck that for me? I'm currently in Canada, so would that be causing trouble trying to get to that website?

Originally Posted by DieselDoctor

I'm having trouble getting that link to work - can someone doublecheck that for me? I'm currently in Canada, so would that be causing trouble trying to get to that website?

I checked it. It works.

I will be getting out of the Navy with 10 years active enlisted service. Will this prevent me from getting an air force scholarship? I know that they are very stingy with OSVET's.

Originally Posted by Beam Tenfold

I will be getting out of the Navy with 10 years active enlisted service. Will this prevent me from getting an air force scholarship?

Nope.

Does anyone know how the selection criteria differs between current AD applicants and civilian applicants for HPSP?

I keep reading that people have already gotten scholarship offers from recruiters, while Mr. Kush at the Air Force Personnel Center has told me the board won't discuss my acceptance until mid April.

I have a 3.3 UGPA with 29 MCAT. I've been accepted to the Medical University of South Carolina. I've been an AD Air Force officer for 2 years and will have good references from military officers. What are my chances for acceptance to HPSP? Would I have a better chance of acceptance at USUHS?

I also have thought about applying for a service transfer to the Army HPSP from the Air Force, but Mr. Kush told me that was not possible. Does anyone know otherwise?

All help is appreciated!

Originally Posted by LL 2Phat

Does anyone know how the selection criteria differs between current AD applicants and civilian applicants for HPSP?

I keep reading that people have already gotten scholarship offers from recruiters, while Mr. Kush at the Air Force Personnel Center has told me the board won't discuss my acceptance until mid April.

I have a 3.3 UGPA with 29 MCAT. I've been accepted to the Medical University of South Carolina. I've been an AD Air Force officer for 2 years and will have good references from military officers. What are my chances for acceptance to HPSP? Would I have a better chance of acceptance at USUHS?

I also have thought about applying for a service transfer to the Army HPSP from the Air Force, but Mr. Kush told me that was not possible. Does anyone know otherwise?

All help is appreciated!

With your grades, MCATs and prior service, you will get the scholarship. Switching services is a little more dicey. It is possible, but difficult.

Originally Posted by NavyFP

With your grades, MCATs and prior service, you will get the scholarship. Switching services is a little more dicey. It is possible, but difficult.

If you are AF, it should be much easier to switch to another service if you want to. In 2006 they were paying junior officers to switch or get out and needed volunteers to do so.

I was active duty Army and applied to both Army and Air Force HPSP scholarships. To switch from army to AF the recruiter gave me some DoD form to have the first 05 in my chain of command sign it saying I could be released to another service if selected for HPSP...not sure if it really would of worked if I did choose to go that route.

The hardest part about the process is getting into medical school...after that with your acceptance letter, you can get a scholarship from any of the branches. The AF will actually run out of them by late spring...early summer so you need to apply early. With army and navy you can apply later and get the scholarship, but you don't want to rush it since there is a ton of paperwork involved...like 3X as much as when I signed up when I did ROTC.

(they may tell you that there is some cut off score or something, but the bottom line is that you got into med school...which is usually good enough for them)

Does anyone know if HPSP students are allowed to apply for combined civilian residency program such as EM/FP or IM/EM?

Thanks

Originally Posted by BamaMedik

Does anyone know if HPSP students are allowed to apply for combined civilian residency program such as EM/FP or IM/EM?

Thanks

Only if the JSGME approves positions for the dual program. Hence, if it is not on the Integrated Forecast Board (IFB), then the answer is No.

Originally Posted by BamaMedik

Does anyone know if HPSP students are allowed to apply for combined civilian residency program such as EM/FP or IM/EM?

Thanks

FWIW, there is only one combined EM/FM program in the country in Delaware. This year they interviewed 6 applicants for 2 slots. One of those slots went to an IMG. That being said, I've heard that some FM programs will give you a year credit if you are already BC/BE in EM.