Applicants: How to research programs of interest

I thought it might be helpful to the Class of 2012 and future medical students to start a thread about how to research programs of interest as they prepare to apply.

I've gotten a few PMs and have seen threads and posts from folks who don't seem aware of how to go about learning some of the basics about different programs for themselves.

I'll kick it off, but I'm hoping if anyone else has a few tips of how to go about researching potential residency programs, we might be able to help future applicants make more informed decisions and cut down on the "How heavy is UCI's call schedule?" threads. Post your tips now, while they're still top of mind.

FREIDA allows you to search for basic information about Psychiatry residencies using different criteria. You can get a list by location (state or region), subspecialty (combined programs and fellowships), or any combination thereof. You can also filter by things such as a academic vs. community environment and class size.

FREIDA is a great place to come up with an initial list of options of programs in areas you'd consider living that have fellowships you're interested in available in an environment you'd enjoy working. This is a good first step to get a list of potential programs as well as URLs for their web-sites.

Note: FREIDA sometimes has out-of-date information and anything you learn here needs to be validated elsewhere. Some are pretty glaring (such as fellowships that no longer exist). But it's a good first step to make sure you don't overlook programs that would be great for you just because they don't get a lot of airplay on SDN or at your medical school.

After coming up with a few programs you're interested in, please don't immediately email folks or start threads with questions like "What do you think about Acme University? Specifically, I'm wondering about class size, pay, benefits, location, rents, psychopharm, psychotherapy, fellowship opportunities, faculty involvement, etc."

Every year, students are asked to post their impressions of different programs after going through the interview process on the Interview Review threads (though with less participation each year... editorializing...).

For each program, posters list things such as:

• Day of interview details
• Program overview
• Faculty
• Location, lifestyle, etc.
• Benefits
• Program strengths
• Potential weaknesses

These threads are goldmines not just for programs you're considering, but also to get an idea of the range of possibilities. A single post on Acme University is helpful, but reading through what folks have to say about other programs, you get an idea of the what's out there by which to compare Acme.

Below are the links to the last three years of Interview Review threads:

• 2010-2011
• 2009-2010
• 2008-2009

There are older review threads as well, but I'd caution against reaching too far back, as you'll possibly get pretty out-of-date information.

After whetting your appetite with reading review(s) about your program, consider going to the Psychiatry Forum on SDN and doing a targeted search:

1. Click on the link on the right-side Search this Forum
2. In the window that pops up, choose Advanced Search (do not use the box that appears outright, as it gives poor results)
3. On the next page, input Acme in the Keyword box. To limit your results, choose Search Titles Only in the drop-down below the search box
4. The default Search in Forum(s) will be correctly limited to Psychiatry if you start the search (and above steps) from within the Psychiatry forum

Doing the above will produce a page of anything that had Acme in the thread title. Expect lots of "Acme vs. Standard U vs. Backwater Community???" and the like.

Tips:

• If the above doesn't produce sufficient results (and for smaller programs, it might not), expand your search by using the drop-down Search Entire Posts, which will show any post that has your program mentioned. Expect lots of chaff with your wheat.
• The search function doesn't like boolean searches so try limiting your search to one term. Harvard AND Longwood or "Harvard Longwood" will each produce the same results set of anything mentioning Harvard OR Longwood. Try using Longwood or another single-term specific names.
• Many programs go by multiple names and you might have to do multiple searches. For Jackson Memorial Hospital/University of Miami, you'll get a different result set by searching Jackson and Miami as two separate searches.

Yes, the information might be heavy on marketing-speak. Yes, the information might be old. Yes, the quality of the website is no indication of the quality of the program. But you'll find answers to a majority of your questions just by looking at each program's website itself and browsing through each page. Shouldn't take more than 15 or 20 minutes for each program.

You may be surprised by what you find and it may very well alter your decision on whether or not to apply a program or to do so intelligently.

Did you know OHSU has an Intercultural Psychiatric Program that has a pretty cutting edge approach to dealing with culturally sensitive treatment of immigrant and refugee communities? I didn't, and didn't expect to see something this in fairly-white Oregon. Discovering this excited me about the program and turned a program that I might have not applied to at all into one that ended up near the top of my ROL.

Did you know that UCSF will not rank you unless you are able to submit proof that you completed and passed all of your Step 1/2? I didn't. Learning this ahead of time allowed me to schedule my Step 2 CS early enough to ensure that results were back in time. Several SDNers did not know this and could not rank what might have been their dream school.

SDN is a great source of information, but it's no substitute for going to the horse's mouth as well.

Originally Posted by notdeadyet

I thought it might be helpful to the Class of 2012 and future medical students to start a thread about how to research programs of interest as they prepare to apply.

I've gotten a few PMs and have seen threads and posts from folks who don't seem aware of how to go about learning some of the basics about different programs for themselves.

I'll kick it off, but I'm hoping if anyone else has a few tips of how to go about researching potential residency programs, we might be able to help future applicants make more informed decisions and cut down on the "How heavy is UCI's call schedule?" threads. Post your tips now, while they're still top of mind.

This is great. Thanks for the contribution.

It is not updated nearly like it used to be but some information can also be gleaned from Scutwork.

Deleted, bad info, apologies....

Originally Posted by notdeadyet

Yeah, I was thinking of adding Scutwork but I'd consider the site dead at this point, at least for Psychiatry.

Looking over the Psychiatry portion of the site, the vast majority of reviews are from 2000 and 2001. They've only had three reviews in the last eight years:
UM

• DNJ-Robert Wood Johnson (2009)
• Pitt County Memoriah Hospital/East Carolina University (2005)
• Griffin Memorial Hopsital (2006)

It's a shame, the information folks used to post is solid. I don't know why it's so defunct.

It's been updated a little more than that. For instance, the University of Utah was updated last fall. Granted, this was a medical student and not a resident posting, but it was the first one off the top of my head that I know was updated recently. St. Lukes-Roosevelt Hospital has had 3 updates in the past few months. I haven't read the reviews, but now looking at it 3 reviews in a couple months on what admittedly is a dead site may seem a little fishy. In any case, I remember occasionally stumbling upon ones that have been updated in the past couple years.

Originally Posted by st2205

It's been updated a little more than that.

Ack. You're right. I was looking at date the program information was updated, not the reviews themselves. Scratch that.

I still didn't find many recent program reviews in the ones I was looking at, but it looks as if scutworks is still breathing, albeit shallowly.

I think there's a huge difference between giving an honest review of a program -- highlighting strengths and weaknesses -- and coming out and bashing programs. I don't think 'program bashing' is synonymous with 'program review' in the context of this thread. Also, I'd venture to guess that more people than not are content with their program, so when people say reviewing programs on scutwork it doesn't mean airing dirty laundry. There are plenty of good things about programs that I'd like to hear, not just the bad.

Originally Posted by st2205

I think there's a huge difference between giving an honest review of a program -- highlighting strengths and weaknesses -- and coming out and bashing programs. I don't think 'program bashing' is synonymous with 'program review' in the context of this thread. Also, I'd venture to guess that more people than not are content with their program, so when people say reviewing programs on scutwork it doesn't mean airing dirty laundry. There are plenty of good things about programs that I'd like to hear, not just the bad.

True but we started talking about giving honest reviews which include bad things (weaknesses) which have the potential to get you in trouble if your talking about a residency your in. If everyone just posts positive information then what have we really learned about being a resident at a program.

Originally Posted by Daftrage

If everyone just posts positive information then what have we really learned about being a resident at a program.

A little bit more than if there were no review at all. Plus, there'd be a lack of information posted at bad programs, which would be somewhat telling. This is assuming a lot of people give reviews.

Originally Posted by st2205

A little bit more than if there were no review at all. Plus, there'd be a lack of information posted at bad programs, which would be somewhat telling. This is assuming a lot of people give reviews.

I know what you mean. Searching this forum with notdeadyet's techniques. I was able to learn so much about programs in my desired location AND learned about the pertinent decision criteria people were using.

That's not possible without people giving feedback. And sometimes the information was so sparse (circa 2002) that it could hardly be measured accurately.

But. Even faced with the apparent paucity of information. And wishing there was more of it. I still understand why it is what it is. Medical hierarchy is just not interested in the opinion of it's interns. Actively disinterested in my opinion. I'm not calling anyone's bets in that situation. And am surprised when people do. Interested and grateful. But surprised at the cajones.

Originally Posted by Daftrage

True but we started talking about giving honest reviews which include bad things (weaknesses) which have the potential to get you in trouble if your talking about a residency your in.

If people are legitimately fearful about anonymously posting honest feedback of problems a program is facing and working on, it would really make me question the program.

Most of the places I interviewed at, the residents seemed pretty open about discussing and even bringing up the biggest challenges a given residency program (this is a typical question to ask). If they aren't, this is a red flag of someplace that's probably unpleasant to work.

Originally Posted by notdeadyet

If people are legitimately fearful about anonymously posting honest feedback of problems a program is facing and working on, it would really make me question the program.

Most of the places I interviewed at, the residents seemed pretty open about discussing and even bringing up the biggest challenges a given residency program (this is a typical question to ask). If they aren't, this is a red flag of someplace that's probably unpleasant to work.

I agree with several of the posts above and think this is a good thread idea. I also think you should absolutely talk to the residents on interview day about negatives and evaluate the responses.

One of the things I liked about the programs on the top of my rank list, especially the top ones were that I felt that I learned exactly what I was getting into and am excited about that. I can tell you my perceptions of programs I reviewed online and then went to see in person were occasionally very different in both good and bad ways.

But enough derailing here. A piece of advice I would give is to research where previous med students from your school have gone. If they did a good job it can give you a little boost and also give you some conversation starters. Also find out where all your attendings at your home school trained. They can give you feedback about the program and may still have solid connections to the program. My mentor trained at my future residency and gave me invaluable feedback about what to expect and also made some extra calls that helped me land a spot.

Originally Posted by notdeadyet

I thought it might be helpful to the Class of 2012 and future medical students to start a thread about how to research programs of interest as they prepare to apply.

I've gotten a few PMs and have seen threads and posts from folks who don't seem aware of how to go about learning some of the basics about different programs for themselves.

I'll kick it off, but I'm hoping if anyone else has a few tips of how to go about researching potential residency programs, we might be able to help future applicants make more informed decisions and cut down on the "How heavy is UCI's call schedule?" threads. Post your tips now, while they're still top of mind.

IMO, this thread should be a sticky.

to get back to the thread topic...
psych really is a buyers market. i have a decent application and got 12 out of 12 interviews from places all over the country with very different teaching goals. i am very glad i took so many interviews so i could contrast them and see what programs i really like. a few points to think about...

1. location- not only where you want to live, but also, what are the patients like? the demographics in houston are very different from boston.

2. research money- i am not into research but interviewed at some heavy-hitter programs. none of the places i looked force research on their residents but the funding speaks to the reputation and contribution of the faculty

3. resident vibes- at the dinner its pretty easy to see where you'll fit in

4. pharm vs. therapy- some places have a focus on one or the other while most are based in GME guidelines. good to know this going in.

How can one tell which programs are focused on academics, research or community mental health? I'm looking for a program that has bits of all 3, but is not focused on primarily research, for example.

Originally Posted by seva86

How can one tell which programs are focused on academics, research or community mental health? I'm looking for a program that has bits of all 3, but is not focused on primarily research, for example.

try looking for their website, scutwork, or just emailing one of the residents there and asking them

Originally Posted by seva86

How can one tell which programs are focused on academics, research or community mental health? I'm looking for a program that has bits of all 3, but is not focused on primarily research, for example.

Talking to Program directors that have been doing it for years is a good way to start. I would start with your home PD.

Otherwise, you can get a snapshot of programs from SDN reviews, and there is good information out there but you do have to actively filter out based on who is the writer.