Average Scores for Oto

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Originally Posted by ACSlatered

I understand what you're saying, but what if you have a 240, middle of the pack class rank and little research? I've got a 246/254 (Step I/StepII) decent clinical grades (2 H, rest HP) and mediocre preclinical grades. Add that in with the fact that I'm only now getting started with research. From what it seems to me, all I've got to hang my hat on are board scores and a decent personality. So where do I fit in with the pack?

I wouldnt' worry too much if you come from a school with an ENT program and have decent letters. Only thing that may prevent you from matching is a bad letter or bad interviewing skills.

Does anyone have information about whether past surgical experience will make a difference? I have 227 Step I. 4.0 and great evaluations in all clinicals. i come from a school without an ENT program. I have no research, yet, but will be starting something soon. I did spend 10 years as a cardiac PA doing EVH etc. I LOVE the OR. planning an away rotation in Sept. I appreciate any comments.

Originally Posted by 2nd time round

Does anyone have information about whether past surgical experience will make a difference? I have 227 Step I. 4.0 and great evaluations in all clinicals. i come from a school without an ENT program. I have no research, yet, but will be starting something soon. I did spend 10 years as a cardiac PA doing EVH etc. I LOVE the OR. planning an away rotation in Sept. I appreciate any comments.

Only so far in that it will make you interesting. It may get you interviews because you'd be interesting to interview compared to the standard applicant, but that type of experience will not set you apart as a better candidate than someone else after the interview is over. It will, however, possibly make you more memorable--for better or worse depending on how well you interview.

A few people have mentioned that your school having an ENT program is a plus. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why is that? Is it because your school's program can help you with a great letter, or that they are more likely to rank you high (that is, if they offer you an interview)?

Originally Posted by glo106

A few people have mentioned that your school having an ENT program is a plus. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why is that? Is it because your school's program can help you with a great letter, or that they are more likely to rank you high (that is, if they offer you an interview)?

Because in ENT, letter of rec from another academic ENT is valued highly in such a small field, especially if the interviewer knows the letter writer personally.

Others may have different opinion, but based on my experience, strong LORs in certain ways outweighs Step score, grades and research in our field, relatively speaking.

Originally Posted by Bigpwn

Because in ENT, letter of rec from another academic ENT is valued highly in such a small field, especially if the interviewer knows the letter writer personally.

Others may have different opinion, but based on my experience, strong LORs in certain ways outweighs Step score, grades and research in our field, relatively speaking.

I had a discussion with the PD at the program I did an away at about this very matter and he was definitely agreed that letters have seemed to become more important of late. He says, especially the last few years, there have simply been too many well-qualified applicants that look stellar on paper. When you're talking about hiring someone to an intensive and stressful job for the next 5 years, and you're trying to base it on a paper application and brief interactions over the course of a day... well mainly programs want to make sure they don't get burned. And having a letter from someone they know vouching for you saying you possess all the qualities they are looking for provides some reassurance to them ranking you, and helps differentiate you from the 50 other applicants with 250 board scores and a couple research projects.

It's just like the "who you know" mantra in business. You move from being some nebulous "applicant" to an established commodity when you have known and respected individuals corroborating the claims of your application.

Originally Posted by ZagDoc

I had a discussion with the PD at the program I did an away at about this very matter and he was definitely agreed that letters have seemed to become more important of late. He says, especially the last few years, there have simply been too many well-qualified applicants that look stellar on paper. When you're talking about hiring someone to an intensive and stressful job for the next 5 years, and you're trying to base it on a paper application and brief interactions over the course of a day... well mainly programs want to make sure they don't get burned. And having a letter from someone they know vouching for you saying you possess all the qualities they are looking for provides some reassurance to them ranking you, and helps differentiate you from the 50 other applicants with 250 board scores and a couple research projects.

It's just like the "who you know" mantra in business. You move from being some nebulous "applicant" to an established commodity when you have known and respected individuals corroborating the claims of your application.

Interesting, because my attendings say while they do highly value LOR, a LOR obtained from an away rotation is not as valuable unless the applicant does not have a residency program at their med school.

Originally Posted by DeciBel

Interesting, because my attendings say while they do highly value LOR, a LOR obtained from an away rotation is not as valuable unless the applicant does not have a residency program at their med school.

I'm very curious as to what attendings on the site think about this. I actually considered using two of my away letters for my application to certain programs. I have several ent letters from my home institution - so should I use 3/4 LOR from home? Or is a letter a letter no matter it's origin? Thanks!

Originally Posted by entseh

I'm very curious as to what attendings on the site think about this. I actually considered using two of my away letters for my application to certain programs. I have several ent letters from my home institution - so should I use 3/4 LOR from home? Or is a letter a letter no matter it's origin? Thanks!

As far as I was concerned when on these committees, the LOR from aways didn't make much difference to me. Here's why. If you did an away at a particular program and you were so wonderfully loved, why would they want to go out of their way to advertise you to other programs? It decreases their chances of getting you.

These letters are not written for altruistic reasons, they're written as a thank you for coming to the program and now it's almost expected to get one unless you sucked on the rotation.

However, the job of your home program is to match you, but they also don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by matching a bad student into another program. So if you get a glowing rec from home, it's more believable that you really are a stellar prospect.

Originally Posted by entseh

I'm very curious as to what attendings on the site think about this. I actually considered using two of my away letters for my application to certain programs. I have several ent letters from my home institution - so should I use 3/4 LOR from home? Or is a letter a letter no matter it's origin? Thanks!

i did an away rotation during my application year. i got a letter from the chair (at that program you're basically obligated to ask for one...), but i decided not to send it anywhere else but that program. i already had 4 letters from my home program that i assumed were more meaningful than that one could have been. i got asked if i did any away rotations at probably 90% of my interviews. invariably, with that comes the question "well, then why didn't you get a letter from the program you rotated at?"

bottom line is that you WILL get asked about away rotations, whether it explicitly states the program in your application or whether you didn't mention it at all. i was honest and just told them i felt like the attendings at my home program knew me better and had more interactions with me (i also missed a lot of face time with attendings where i rotated because many were out of town for the academy meeting). i think that's a totally legit excuse. i'm sure there were some that remained suspicious, but what can you do... if you don't send one, just be prepared to explain.