Military pay

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Originally Posted by DocJL

xhamburgers and jim85,

When I went in I think the navy was taking like 120 new dentists a year. There were 24 GPR slots spread out among 5 hospitals, you had to apply and they were mildly competitive. there were an additional 80(I believe) 1 year AEGD slots that were very easy to get. The rest of the folks just went straight to a clinic, and basically OJT'd for extra skills.

GPR was best on your military resume if you had aspirations to specialize, either in the military or civilian residency after the military, and was basically a requirement if you were interested in OS. Both AEGD and GPR provided excellent hands on rotations in all the disciplines of dentistry (except we did no ortho, and my program did no removeable, little to no cosmetic dentistry either, Uncle Sam don't care if you have a beautiful smile.....lol) At the end of the year your clinic director checked you off as being "credentialed" to independantly do things like molar endo, partial and full bony impactions, crown lengthening and osseous surgery, simple apicoectomy, etc. etc.

Yes it helped when you got to your duty assignment, as you were given much more leeway to diagnose and even control your own schedule. I was at a "less desireable" remote location, so there were very few high ranking dental officers (the wisdom is that they had "paid their dues" and got first crack at the good coastal assignments). This helped because we had less specialists, and as young general dentists were allowed to perform all phases of treatment. As a GPR trained dentist (there were typically 3 or 4 of us out of 15 dental officers at my clinic) I got to keep a nitrogen tank IN my operatory, as I scheduled 3rd molars for myself 1 or 2 days a week, as I enjoyed surgery.

The guys who were right out of school I never really saw progress to the same comfort level with complex OS, endo and perio as those who did the 1 year programs. Bottom line, even though as junior dental officers we all got along, those of us with training, especially if we were trying to prepare ourselves for either residency or private practice, were more concerned with our OWN clinical experiences, versus trying to train up somebody who elected to skip the one year program (and some of them chose to skip it because they simply did not want to do the work, after dental school, because there is a good deal of work involved, particularly the GPR, which was known to be much more rigorous than the AEGD - in other words, if you wanted to be a stud and treat the more difficult cases, you had to pay your dues........)

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your perspective. I am excited to start my GPR in July.

Originally Posted by jim85213

Thanks for your perspective. I am excited to start my GPR in July.

Are you going to Camp Pendleton? (based on your avatar)

I did mine at Bethesda. I hear Pendleton is a good place to do your GPR, because it is the only residency there, the other hospitals all have OS residents so you tend to get stuck doing their scut work.

Originally Posted by DocJL

Are you going to Camp Pendleton? (based on your avatar)

I did mine at Bethesda. I hear Pendleton is a good place to do your GPR, because it is the only residency there, the other hospitals all have OS residents so you tend to get stuck doing their scut work.

Correct, I'm headed to Pendleton. I wasn't aware that all the other hospitals have OS residents... even NMC San Diego?

Originally Posted by jim85213

Correct, I'm headed to Pendleton. I wasn't aware that all the other hospitals have OS residents... even NMC San Diego?

They did 10 years ago, not sure about anything now.

Originally Posted by omaralt

you do realize that even in the top bracket you dont pay 40% taxes on your entire salary right? the way our tax system works is that no matter how much money you earn you pay the same rate as everybody else in a sliding scale. ie;

$0-8,375 = 10% taxes
$8375- 34,000 = 15%
34,000-84,200 = 25%
84,200- 171,850 = 28%
171,850 - 373,650 = 33%

so if your making $140K/yr you'll pay $32,909 in taxes = $131,636 in taxes over 4 yrs = $428,364 in income much higher than the $336K you quoted. just fyi as many people dont understand how we're taxed

edit: this is only for federal taxes; some states also have state income tax
here is a calculator you can use to figure out how much you'll pay:

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

FYI, some states will tax 10%, factor in social security, medicare, etc. and 40% withheld per paycheck is not unrealistic.

Originally Posted by krmower

Just a quick note about the fixed comment - The services (at least Army and Air Force) all use "area dental labs" so whether your clinic has a lab or not does not matter - it is all fed ex'd to the lab and fed ex'd back. Even in Iraq I am doing fixed prosth cases by this method.

My understanding is that for OCONUS bases the process of fed ex-ing a FPD or crown takes up to 6 months and rarely if ever done because a lot of soldiers will be moving on from their duty stations by the time the lab comes through with the crowns.

Also, for CONUS bases, are junior officers (without AEGD) credentialed to do any fixed? DOes the army uses all metal, pfm, gold, etc?

Originally Posted by xhamburgersamx

My understanding is that for OCONUS bases the process of fed ex-ing a FPD or crown takes up to 6 months and rarely if ever done because a lot of soldiers will be moving on from their duty stations by the time the lab comes through with the crowns.

Also, for CONUS bases, are junior officers (without AEGD) credentialed to do any fixed? DOes the army uses all metal, pfm, gold, etc?

I wouldn't think it would be based on soldiers moving on from their duty stations. Minimum time on station for an OCONUS assignment is 2 years for a single member, and 3 for a married one. And plenty of people opt to extend, which is up to 6 years.

Originally Posted by xhamburgersamx

My understanding is that for OCONUS bases the process of fed ex-ing a FPD or crown takes up to 6 months and rarely if ever done because a lot of soldiers will be moving on from their duty stations by the time the lab comes through with the crowns.

Also, for CONUS bases, are junior officers (without AEGD) credentialed to do any fixed? DOes the army uses all metal, pfm, gold, etc?

Not in the AF. It's usually back to you in less than one month. And that is only if it has to go out. We have labs at each base, so most of our lab work is completed right down the hall from your treatment room.

Originally Posted by xhamburgersamx

My understanding is that for OCONUS bases the process of fed ex-ing a FPD or crown takes up to 6 months and rarely if ever done because a lot of soldiers will be moving on from their duty stations by the time the lab comes through with the crowns.

Also, for CONUS bases, are junior officers (without AEGD) credentialed to do any fixed? DOes the army uses all metal, pfm, gold, etc?

Usually turn around time on a crown in the Army is 1-2 months, never had any take longer than that. The worst thing is the quality of the product you get back from the Army dental lab. I had to have a lot of crowns remade due to open margins, poor fit, or horrendous shade. A lot of times the crowns would have open margins on the die and it would pass the ADL quality control.

Once time I got chewed out by the prosthodontist in my AEGD for selecting a poor shade, I then showed him my shade selection, the patient's tooth and shade tab, and the crown. I selected the perfect shade (something like A2) and the crown came back closer to C3, it was the greenest looking thing I've ever seen. My AEGD started shipping most of our work to Glidewell due to the poor quality of the Army lab and slow turn around time.

I never had any problems when I was in school or private practice with what I got back from labs. The lab in the Army was such a headache I tried to avoid doin pros as much as I could.

Originally Posted by xhamburgersamx

My understanding is that for OCONUS bases the process of fed ex-ing a FPD or crown takes up to 6 months and rarely if ever done because a lot of soldiers will be moving on from their duty stations by the time the lab comes through with the crowns.

Also, for CONUS bases, are junior officers (without AEGD) credentialed to do any fixed? DOes the army uses all metal, pfm, gold, etc?

Your info is not correct burger. Not only do you have your own lab techs at many medium and large facilities, but you also have the ADL. I am in Iraq now. I use Fed Ex to ship stuff back, and I get it back within a month (it is rushed because we are deployed - most of the 1 month time is shipping - not the lab fabrication). Back in the states I tell my patients and we plan for a 6-8 week turn around time.

Crown

Originally Posted by krmower

Burger - info is off. I have been stationed in 2 OCONUS locations - Hawaii and currently Iraq. Both places used Fed Ex - and I have never had any case take longer than 6-8 weeks to come back to me (even in Iraq).

Additionally most medium and large clinics also have their own lab techs - so many things may be done in house and not sent out.

I'm pretty sure in smaller OCONUS bases in asia (i.e. korea and japan) all the fixed worked has to go through the prosthodontist which may not be available at these smaller stations. Patients are referred up to the headquarter base where specialists are and the time it takes for the consult, procedure , fed-ex everything can take up to 6 months. This is just what I hear from 63A at smaller bases in Asia. Is it because you are 63B and CO at your location, you can expedite the process?

Originally Posted by xhamburgersamx

I'm pretty sure in smaller OCONUS bases in asia (i.e. korea and japan) all the fixed worked has to go through the prosthodontist which may not be available at these smaller stations. Patients are referred up to the headquarter base where specialists are and the time it takes for the consult, procedure , fed-ex everything can take up to 6 months. This is just what I hear from 63A at smaller bases in Asia. Is it because you are 63B and CO at your location, you can expedite the process?

Nope. The process is standard across the board. The decision of whether or not someone is allowed to do Prosth or how much is done inside of a clinic is decided by the Commander or OIC of that clinic.

Each clinic will have a lab officer which may or may not be a prosthodontist. That individual is the quality control person that makes sure a case is acceptable enough to send out. If someone does a crappy job then the lab officer will let them know they need to redo it.

If a case is too complex for someone then it would be referred out, but otherwise a 63A is credentialed to do Prosth as is a 63B. I have friends in Korea and Japan and they do Prosth also.

Cases are shipped Fed Ex - I'm not a CO - just a mid level officer. Even before I found out about Fed Ex here and sent things through the post office (APO Address just like in Asia) it would take maybe up to 6 weeks for a case to come back - again because mail in and out of Iraq is a little slow.

Can you talk about your overall experience going through OMFS training and the work you do now for the army? What do/did you like and dislike about the experience? How competitive is it? Overall reflections/thoughts? Why did you choose OMFS?

Originally Posted by JohnniesK9

Can you talk about your overall experience going through OMFS training and the work you do now for the army? What do/did you like and dislike about the experience? How competitive is it? Overall reflections/thoughts? Why did you choose OMFS?

Originally Posted by ArmyJawBreaker

The military has a bad reputation of underpaying compared to the civilian sector. But when you do a 4 year oral surgery residency, like I did, in the US Army you are paid well above what a civilian will receive. I had the luxury of having my wife stay home and raise our children during my 4 year residency. Many civilian couples must rely upon on their spouse's income to make the income during their 4 year residency.

So, if you are interested to know what you will make in the military, include pay, bonuses and housing allowance I would more than happy to break down how much your income will be in the US military. Remember, nearly 40% of your income is tax exempt/ tax free from federal income tax and does not need to be reported on your federal taxes. It is a win/ win situation for US military residencies.

Can you talk about your overall experience going through OMFS training and the work you do now for the army? What do/did you like and dislike about the experience? How competitive is it? Overall reflections/thoughts? Why did you choose OMFS?

+1

Originally Posted by johnniesk9

can you talk about your overall experience going through omfs training and the work you do now for the army? what do/did you like and dislike about the experience? how competitive is it? overall reflections/thoughts? Why did you choose omfs?