ABT: new special pay plan for general dentists

SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)

Originally Posted by Tooth

Here is a quote from the Chief of the Naval Dental Corps. I posted this info a few posts up with an attachment. Read it over. I've highlighted a point I believe you may have missed.

Once a member converts to the new consolidated special pays program they cannot go back to the old special pays program. However, by 2014 we are hoping that the consolidated pay program for specialists will be in effect so it should not be an issue for new specialists. If there was no new consolidated pay program for specialists in effect, say in 2015, a General Dentist who took an RB this summer, began and completed a residency, could not revert back to the old pay system to take a DOMRB under the old system. However, the shortest residency is 2 years with a 2 year payback so no general dentist currently entering training (if the NAVADMIN comes out before JULY/AUG and they sign up) should want to take a specialty RB before July 2015 in any case. We are hoping 4 years from now the consolidated pay program for specialists is done with new RB rates that equal or exceed that of the present DORMB but of course, that timeline is not guaranteed (but very likely).

I didn't miss it. Having worked on the special pays board, I know what the plans are and I don't believe this will be an issue. Retention bonuses are too important to our retention to let them cause too much of a problem. The services have some good people working these issues and I don't believe they will let this be a problem. I'm choosing to see the sunny side of this. I know how this process works and I know the people working it. I can assure you they don't want this to be a problem and they are working very hard to take care of this.

Originally Posted by AFDDS

It applies only to those with an AEGD-1 and/ore those without any additional training beyond dental school.

I think many new dentists will ask the question: if they are going to lump AEGD-1 residents with the GD's with no training then why even attend the AEGD-1 and add a year to their commitment?

I thought the whole idea was that nobody would lose money. If the bonus drops from 35k to 25k for AEGD-1 trained dentists that's quite a drop in pay. Assuming of course the AEGD-1 trained dentist does the C-B conversion.

Additionally, as was stated earlier, your special pay (IP vs ASP & VSP) would decrease significantly down the road of you switched to this plan.

On the surface this does not seem like a good idea.

Originally Posted by ARguy

I think many new dentists will ask the question: if they are going to lump AEGD-1 residents with the GD's with no training then why even attend the AEGD-1 and add a year to their commitment?

I thought the whole idea was that nobody would lose money. If the bonus drops from 35k to 25k for AEGD-1 trained dentists that's quite a drop in pay. Assuming of course the AEGD-1 trained dentist does the C-B conversion.

Additionally, as was stated earlier, your special pay (IP vs ASP & VSP) would decrease significantly down the road of you switched to this plan.

On the surface this does not seem like a good idea.

Remember, as it stands now, those with an AEGD-1 (47G3C for the AF)are already in the same pay category as GD’s without an AEGD(47G3). It’s not until you complete a C-B preceptorship or an ACP program(47G3B) that you become eligible for a $35K RB. So as it stands now GD’s without and AEGD (47G3)or GD’s that have completed an AEGD-1 and have not completed the C-B preceptorship/ACP program (47G3C)would not receive a RB. Under the new plan they would receive $25K/year for a 4 year contract. So it’s a gain for these folks, because they weren’t eligible for a DOMRB under the current plan. The new plan you see is for the 47G3C and 47G3 categories only. This does not include 47G3B or 47G3A (2-year AEGD) GD’s

As far as losing money, you are correct. At the 8 year mark the $$ amount would go down. However, The majority of GD’s in the AF will train in a specialty program or separate long before hitting that mark. Probably the same for the other services as well, but I can’t say for sure.

Originally Posted by AFDDS

Remember, as it stands now, those with an AEGD-1 (47G3C for the AF)are already in the same pay category as GD’s without an AEGD(47G3). It’s not until you complete a C-B preceptorship or an ACP program(47G3B) that you become eligible for a $35K RB. So as it stands now GD’s without and AEGD (47G3)or GD’s that have completed an AEGD-1 and have not completed the C-B preceptorship/ACP program (47G3C)would not receive a RB. Under the new plan they would receive $25K/year for a 4 year contract. So it’s a gain for these folks, because they weren’t eligible for a DOMRB under the current plan. The new plan you see is for the 47G3C and 47G3 categories only. This does not include 47G3B or 47G3A (2-year AEGD) GD’s

As far as losing money, you are correct. At the 8 year mark the $$ amount would go down. However, The majority of GD’s in the AF will train in a specialty program or separate long before hitting that mark. Probably the same for the other services as well, but I can’t say for sure.

Concur with AFDDS - it is also the same in the Army. If you haven't specialized by the time you hit 8 yrs, it is usually because you have chosen not to (for personal reasons), or because you started and dropped out of a specialty program. Either way until you specialize your career opportunities and promotion potential will be affected - it's not a good plan on not having done any specialty training and remaining in the service past 8 yrs.

So the way they structured the pay may be a way to help "motivate" people to not be indecisive with their career.

So what if you weren't competitive enough for a specialty program because either your GPA or Board scores were too low at the time you enter active duty? Does that mean after a certain amount of time served, specialty programs are more likely to matriculate you even with less than competitive scores?

Originally Posted by Roto Picante

So what if you weren't competitive enough for a specialty program because either your GPA or Board scores were too low at the time you enter active duty? Does that mean after a certain amount of time served, specialty programs are more likely to matriculate you even with less than competitive scores?

I've been told that time in service does play a role in the admittance process into certain residencies/specialties.

Originally Posted by Tiankum

I've been told that time in service does play a role in the admittance process into certain residencies/specialties.

Time in service helps. We also look at other things. GPA and NBDE scores aren't the only things we have. This is one reason we look at GRE scores. With many schools being pass/fail and NBDE going Pass/Fail, everyone looks the same, unless you have something like the GRE that gives us something to look at. We look at the whole person, so time in service and letters of recommendation from your commander help. Letters from your AEGD director help even more.

Originally Posted by Roto Picante

So what if you weren't competitive enough for a specialty program because either your GPA or Board scores were too low at the time you enter active duty? Does that mean after a certain amount of time served, specialty programs are more likely to matriculate you even with less than competitive scores?

Yes. The other "military - non dental" things can play a more important role, as well as your military evaluations.

Originally Posted by krmower

Yes. The other "military - non dental" things can play a more important role, as well as your military evaluations.

What do the non-dental military evaluations consist of? Could you late out some examples of things that would go into your considerations? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Smills91

What do the non-dental military evaluations consist of? Could you late out some examples of things that would go into your considerations? Thanks.

Your annual evaluations will cover:
1) You as an officer - how did you perform other duties assigned to you i.e. infection control officer, lab officer, voting assistance officer, HAZCOM officer, etc... You will be given one or more additional jobs when you arrive at your location
2) Dental skills
3) Accomplishments/achievement over the past year
4) Future potential
5) Physical fitness

References may also be made about how you compare with other officers at your location.

Originally Posted by krmower

Your annual evaluations will cover:
1) You as an officer - how did you perform other duties assigned to you i.e. infection control officer, lab officer, voting assistance officer, HAZCOM officer, etc... You will be given one or more additional jobs when you arrive at your location
2) Dental skills
3) Accomplishments/achievement over the past year
4) Future potential
5) Physical fitness

References may also be made about how you compare with other officers at your location.

What exactly is a voting assistance officer? Also, the other duties assigned to you, do you have option given to you to choose from, or is it a straight assignment handed down to you from your CO?

Originally Posted by Smills91

What exactly is a voting assistance officer? Also, the other duties assigned to you, do you have option given to you to choose from, or is it a straight assignment handed down to you from your CO?

Voting assistance officer is one of more than several dozen additional duties that are available and may be given to you. You typically do not have a choice, and you may be given several "additional" jobs as part of your new assignment.

Back to the IP program.

I will be graduating next month and should have my license by 1 July. Assuming the IP pay plan takes effect in July, when would I get the actual payout? Sept-Oct time frame?

Originally Posted by jim85213

Back to the IP program.

I will be graduating next month and should have my license by 1 July. Assuming the IP pay plan takes effect in July, when would I get the actual payout? Sept-Oct time frame?

Three months after June is September. That's when you start earning the IP. You're supposed to get paid two weeks later. But, you probably won't because these special pays always get screwed up. It took me three months to get my first ASP. Of course, the IP will be paid monthly and I'm quite sure they'll back pay you.

BTW, more guidance on IP came out today.

"1) Currently no one is required to take or start the new pay plan; however, once you take any of the new pays you will be required to continue in the new pays for the remainder of your military career! Also, once you receive any new pay ie. IP or RB, then all special pays must be under the new pays plan.

2) If you are a resident in training you are not eligible for the new multi-year retention bonus, so it may not be beneficial to move to the new pay plan to get just the IP because once you complete the residency you won’t be eligible for the DOMRB for the specialty. This should change in the future once ASD(HA) creates DOMRB rates and policy for the specialties, but for now the RB is only for General Dentists, so be mindful of the effects your decision will have toward future special pays eligibility."

Originally Posted by jim85213

Back to the IP program.

I will be graduating next month and should have my license by 1 July. Assuming the IP pay plan takes effect in July, when would I get the actual payout? Sept-Oct time frame?

In order to receive IP you will need two things.

1. Enter active duty
2. have a valid, unrestricted license

If you EAD in June, but don't have a license until July, your clock will start in July. If you EAD with a license, the three month clock will start when you EAD.

So this IP is a done deal? I was told about a week or so ago it was still "under consideration"

Originally Posted by shamrock2006

So this IP is a done deal? I was told about a week or so ago it was still "under consideration"

Got an email from my AEGD commander encouraging everyone to get licensed so we can get it. Must be good to go. He was saying it might not start till the next fiscal year.

Originally Posted by natedizzle

Got an email from my AEGD commander encouraging everyone to get licensed so we can get it. Must be good to go. He was saying it might not start till the next fiscal year.

which is 1 july or 1 jan?

Quick question: If we sign a new ASP contract (25Jun11), how will this affect our ability to get the new Incentive Pay? Will we be able to opt out of the ASP? Will they prorate the ASP until Oct 1, when the new plan is supposed to start?

Originally Posted by gszilins

Quick question: If we sign a new ASP contract (25Jun11), how will this affect our ability to get the new Incentive Pay? Will we be able to opt out of the ASP? Will they prorate the ASP until Oct 1, when the new plan is supposed to start?

That's what I want to know. So far the guidance in the Navy has only been that you should sign up for the ASP like normal until the IP comes through. They said that once it comes through we would be able to "terminate" the ASP and "renegotiate". However, no further information was given about the details of "terminating" or "renegotiating" the ASP. The reality is that once you get your ASP, they pay it in a lump sum of $10K minus taxes. That is, you got your entire year's payment in advance. So if they make the IP available two months later, and you "terminate" your ASP, you got over-paid by 10 months. I suspect the only "renegotiation" will be to pay back 10 months worth of ASP, then start a new IP contract with a new date.

But I am hoping for something different. I am hoping that the "renegotiation" will allow us to keep the original ASP start date, keep the "prorated" ASP pay (returning any over-payments), and then begin receiving IP for the remainder of the original contract year. That would be sweet. I seriously doubt that will happen though. For me, keeping that date is more important than the $.

Originally Posted by natedizzle

Got an email from my AEGD commander encouraging everyone to get licensed so we can get it. Must be good to go. He was saying it might not start till the next fiscal year.

Fiscal year is 1 Oct.

Originally Posted by Tooth

That's what I want to know. So far the guidance in the Navy has only been that you should sign up for the ASP like normal until the IP comes through. They said that once it comes through we would be able to "terminate" the ASP and "renegotiate". However, no further information was given about the details of "terminating" or "renegotiating" the ASP. The reality is that once you get your ASP, they pay it in a lump sum of $10K minus taxes. That is, you got your entire year's payment in advance. So if they make the IP available two months later, and you "terminate" your ASP, you got over-payed by 10 months. I suspect the only "renegotiation" will be to pay back 10 months worth of ASP, then start a new IP contract with a new date.

But I am hoping for something different. I am hoping that the "renegotiation" will allow us to keep the original ASP start date, keep the "prorated" ASP pay (returning any over-payments), and then begin receiving IP for the remainder of the original contract year. That would be sweet. I seriously doubt that will happen though. For me, keeping that date is more important than the $.

In previous years when a new higher bonus has come along, you are able to renegotiate. If you renegotiate, the higher bonus is paid to you minus whatever amount you were already given.

The date will be changed to the new date you "renegotiate" you new bonus on.

Originally Posted by krmower

In previous years when a new higher bonus has come along, you are able to renegotiate. If you renegotiate, the higher bonus is paid to you minus whatever amount you were already given.

The date will be changed to the new date you "renegotiate" you new bonus on.

Good info, thanks.

bump

Originally Posted by Tooth

bump

Why bump if nothing new to add Tooth?

Originally Posted by NAVY DDS 2010

Why bump if nothing new to add Tooth?

I was wondering if anyone knew when the NAVADMIN was going to be signed but it was released today. This stuff is now good to go.

After reading this thread, I am thoroughly confused... Here is my situation. I am graduating in May and will be moving to FT Hood to work for one year until I start the 2 year AEGD. Will it be to my advantage to take the new incentive pay? Should I stick with the old plan? I don't want to hurt my long term future earning potential. What should I do?

Also, I can't find any info on this new incentive pay beyond what is found on this website. Is there any government site that talks about this?

If the Army 2 year AEGD (in the Navy it's called Comprehensive Dentistry) is considered a specialty then you may not be eligible for legacy special pays by taking the new pay plan, which to the best of my knowledge is currently only for general dentists.

Originally Posted by ALTOSS

thanks for the rundown AFDDS. you're correct. i just wanted to point out that previously you'd lose out only on the ASP portion of the bonus by a few months, but now that the military has the combined pay coincided with the license date, you'd miss out more (i'd say around 5k) if you are definitely certain you'd get out asap and not take the bonus in the beginning of the 4th yr. however, for someone who's determined to get out, a few k in exchange for getting out months early may sound like a fair trade.

also, 1 more Q: does the ADSO start upon graduation or active duty, or worse yet, active duty as a dentist? i finished my basic b/f dental school, so technically i could start working in june. others, however, would start their basic in mid-jun, start working in aug. would our ADSO up on the same date?

thank you in advance!

my story: went to obc on 10 june and reported to first duty on 26 july.

my dasp pay contract went from 10 june to 09 june.

so, it is possible to have have dasp obligation coincide with adso.

if your command does not specifically say the dasp contract can be signed only after a certain time then try to get it dated the same as your adso. it is possible. work your magic. i wasn't prior service .

also, remember your bonus contract is contingent upon passing the apft (pt test).

i know a guy who couldn't pass for 2 years and didn't get paid his bonus money.

good luck!

Originally Posted by TuckyDent

After reading this thread, I am thoroughly confused... Here is my situation. I am graduating in May and will be moving to FT Hood to work for one year until I start the 2 year AEGD. Will it be to my advantage to take the new incentive pay? Should I stick with the old plan? I don't want to hurt my long term future earning potential. What should I do?

Also, I can't find any info on this new incentive pay beyond what is found on this website. Is there any government site that talks about this?

Here is the link that explains the new 63A pays in more detail. Here is how I understand the current guidance after having spoken with the individual involved in implementing it.

For a 63A there will be a new pay - Incentive Pay (IP). This will be made up of the DASP and VSP. The pay will be $20,000/yr divided up and paid monthly ($1666.66). It is an "all or nothing" pay that is not based upon how long you have been in the service - you either get it or you don't. Similar to the DASP it is inacted in 1 yr increments and you must have a valid license and credentials to receive it. this is a bad deal for officers who are still 63As who have been in a long time because their pay would go down, while younger officers will go up.

The 2nd pay will be the Retention bonus (RB) for 63A. This is only available after your initial obligation has been met. For most people at the end of 3 or 4 yrs. The total pay will be $25k/yr paid in a lump sum for an additional 4 yr obligation.

These 2 pays are part of the new payment system that eventually will be offerred to the other specialites as well (consolidated pays). The 63A's will be the first group offerred the pays. Additional implementation guidance is expected within the next few weeks.

2 things to note:
1) You can not "mix and match" - if you decide not to take the DASP but instead take the IP - you can not then also take the 63A Retention bonuse. You must do both programs and leave the "old" bonus pay program behind - never going back to it.

2) If you take the new 63A pays and decide go into a specialty and complete it - if the new specialty bonuses have not been inacted yet - you are stuck - you can't take the specialty retention bonus since it falls under the "old system" (you would still take the IP bonus). Will this be a big deal? Don't know - for anyone who would have the chance to take the new bonus now - they are looking at usually a 6 yr minimum before they can take the multi-year retention bonus (4 yrs HPSP + 2 yrs specialty training). 6 years from now I would anticipate that everything is implemented - but it will be up to each 63A to decide whether they want to do it.

I won't speculate on anything else, but if I receive additional information I will post it. I am also not going to guess on when these will be rolled out - I am told "soon".

Thanks for the response. It's all coming together in my mind now, I may just be a little bit slower than most!

Originally Posted by krmower

Here is the link that explains the new 63A pays in more detail. Here is how I understand the current guidance after having spoken with the individual involved in implementing it.

For a 63A there will be a new pay - Incentive Pay (IP). This will be made up of the DASP and VSP. The pay will be $20,000/yr divided up and paid monthly ($1666.66). It is an "all or nothing" pay that is not based upon how long you have been in the service - you either get it or you don't. Similar to the DASP it is inacted in 1 yr increments and you must have a valid license and credentials to receive it. this is a bad deal for officers who are still 63As who have been in a long time because their pay would go down, while younger officers will go up.

The 2nd pay will be the Retention bonus (RB) for 63A. This is only available after your initial obligation has been met. For most people at the end of 3 or 4 yrs. The total pay will be $25k/yr paid in a lump sum for an additional 4 yr obligation.

These 2 pays are part of the new payment system that eventually will be offerred to the other specialites as well (consolidated pays). The 63A's will be the first group offerred the pays. Additional implementation guidance is expected within the next few weeks.

2 things to note:
1) You can not "mix and match" - if you decide not to take the DASP but instead take the IP - you can not then also take the 63A Retention bonuse. You must do both programs and leave the "old" bonus pay program behind - never going back to it.

2) If you take the new 63A pays and decide go into a specialty and complete it - if the new specialty bonuses have not been inacted yet - you are stuck - you can't take the specialty retention bonus since it falls under the "old system" (you would still take the IP bonus). Will this be a big deal? Don't know - for anyone who would have the chance to take the new bonus now - they are looking at usually a 6 yr minimum before they can take the multi-year retention bonus (4 yrs HPSP + 2 yrs specialty training). 6 years from now I would anticipate that everything is implemented - but it will be up to each 63A to decide whether they want to do it.

I won't speculate on anything else, but if I receive additional information I will post it. I am also not going to guess on when these will be rolled out - I am told "soon".

Has the Army not yet implemented this plan? We had it implemented last fall.

My understanding is that the MRB will be contingent on all educational obligations being complete - hence like you said no HPSP obligations, the 1-4 years of specialty training, and then the corresponding ADSO on top of that.

Originally Posted by vellnueve

Has the Army not yet implemented this plan? We had it implemented last fall.

My understanding is that the MRB will be contingent on all educational obligations being complete - hence like you said no HPSP obligations, the 1-4 years of specialty training, and then the corresponding ADSO on top of that.

Army hadn't implemented it yet, but will back pay based on the established date.

Here my story with IP so far, if it is helpful.

I was Navy HPSP, graduated and came on active duty in June 2011. I received my license in July. I was able to get VSP/ASP starting July 2011. When IP became available to us in the Navy in Oct 2011, I switched over. I am not getting the full $1666.66 per month ($20,000 per year) because I took ASP/VSP first. It was renegotiated to about $1057 per month. Come Oct 2012 I will be to the full $1666.66.

I was a no-brainer for someone in my shoes because being an O-3/0, it was a $7,000 increase per year. I incurred more debt by having to pay to take my licensure exam but benefit far out-weighed the cost.

Originally Posted by jim85213

Here my story with IP so far, if it is helpful.

I was Navy HPSP, graduated and came on active duty in June 2011. I received my license in July. I was able to get VSP/ASP starting July 2011. When IP became available to us in the Navy in Oct 2011, I switched over. I am not getting the full $1666.66 per month ($20,000 per year) because I took ASP/VSP first. It was renegotiated to about $1057 per month. Come Oct 2012 I will be to the full $1666.66.

I was a no-brainer for someone in my shoes because being an O-3/0, it was a $7,000 increase per year. I incurred more debt by having to pay to take my licensure exam but benefit far out-weighed the cost.

I took both the NERB and the WREB and consider that money well spent even though they're redundant right now. As for IP/VSP/ASP, I signed the ASP/VSP contract but never got the money, then took the IP when it became available - still owed a portion from the ASP/VSP along with many others.

I won't be heading into the Air Force until 2014, so this new IP thing will be my only option it seems (which sounds like a good deal starting out).

My question is this. I plan to do a 1 year AEGD program through the Air Force right when I get out of school. Will I receive this "bonus" during my time in my AEGD program since I will have (theoretically) passed WREB before attending AEGD?

Also, when I am in AEGD, am I paid just like any other dentist or do I receive less in a certain area for any reason since I'm in an educational program and not exclusively treating patients?

Thanks everyone!

Maybe it's a stupid question, but could somebody with more knowledge than I have answer it for me?
-In the new Army document explaining the IP/RB program, it states in paragraph 4 that HPO's undergoing residency training are ineligible for IP. Suppose I was to accept the new pay plan and next year I was to start a residency. Does that mean that while in the residency I wouldn't qualify for any type of special pay?

Originally Posted by TuckyDent

Maybe it's a stupid question, but could somebody with more knowledge than I have answer it for me?
-In the new Army document explaining the IP/RB program, it states in paragraph 4 that HPO's undergoing residency training are ineligible for IP. Suppose I was to accept the new pay plan and next year I was to start a residency. Does that mean that while in the residency I wouldn't qualify for any type of special pay?

I confirmed today that if you enter into any contract prior to starting the residencies (either ACP or what you are mentioning), that you will continue to get it during residency.

Originally Posted by TuckyDent

Maybe it's a stupid question, but could somebody with more knowledge than I have answer it for me?
-In the new Army document explaining the IP/RB program, it states in paragraph 4 that HPO's undergoing residency training are ineligible for IP. Suppose I was to accept the new pay plan and next year I was to start a residency. Does that mean that while in the residency I wouldn't qualify for any type of special pay?

What document are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Tiankum

What document are you talking about?

The Army document that explains to Army dentists how the new IP pay will be rolled out. Other services may have different guidance.

What happens after I complete my 2 year AEGD? Will I still be able to get the bonus even though I won't be considered a 63A?

Originally Posted by TuckyDent

What happens after I complete my 2 year AEGD? Will I still be able to get the bonus even though I won't be considered a 63A?

If it's like the Navy then you'll be eligible for other special pays.

Originally Posted by TuckyDent

What happens after I complete my 2 year AEGD? Will I still be able to get the bonus even though I won't be considered a 63A?

By that time the IP pay and other consolidated pays for the specialists should have been rolled out. They started with the general dentists first (63A) as the first phase of the plan.

Originally Posted by krmower

By that time the IP pay and other consolidated pays for the specialists should have been rolled out. They started with the general dentists first (63A) as the first phase of the plan.

The Navy allows you to sign up for IP while in ODS and during your AEGD. FYI for those of us that might not get proof of license until after the AEGD starts. This information is per CAPT Hartzell, the Navy DC Career Planner.

Originally Posted by vellnueve

If it's like the Navy then you'll be eligible for other special pays.

What other special pays would you be eligible for as a COMP dentist?

Originally Posted by Tiankum

What other special pays would you be eligible for as a COMP dentist?

The consolidated pay plan for specialists is not out yet but should be out by the time you finish a comp program and pay it back. Currently they are eligible for a tier 1 DOMRB.

Originally Posted by krmower

Concur with AFDDS - it is also the same in the Army. If you haven't specialized by the time you hit 8 yrs, it is usually because you have chosen not to (for personal reasons), or because you started and dropped out of a specialty program. Either way until you specialize your career opportunities and promotion potential will be affected - it's not a good plan on not having done any specialty training and remaining in the service past 8 yrs.

So the way they structured the pay may be a way to help "motivate" people to not be indecisive with their career.

Is it the same deal if you enter the active reserves after 4yrs of active duty?