St. Lukes-Roosevelt Hospital Center Program

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The previous message is a joke. SLR pathology program is a great program. You have the chance to rotate through 3 hospitals including the Beth Israel Medical Center, which is considered in par with Mount Sinai in NYC. Huge volume and fantastic faculty. You will be well prepared for your career when you graduate.

An insider.

Originally Posted by slrresident

Copied from Pathology student wiki.

The St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center pathology residency program is on probation by ACGME starting April 2011. The service work (grossing) is excessive and education is compromised especially at Beth Israel Medical Center, where residents spend 8 months grossing without any teaching (signout, conference, etc) activity.
Be Aware! The program is abusing the residents to gross so much that the fourth years have to gross 3-4 months and you barely have 18 months of CP which is required for the board! Ask a lot of questions to the program director - Mark Firedman, before you come here! He lies to the current residents all the time! Now the graduates are not even eligible for the CP board! Also electives are close to none instead of the 3 months PD will promise you. Edit

Fellowships:Edit

1. Hematopathology fellowship ( ACGME accredited, 1/yr)
2. GI/Liver fellowship at Beth Israel Medical Center (Non-ACGME accredited, 1/yr). Note: The fellow is not paid but can coordinate with department to work as a PA.
3. Surgical Pathology fellowship (in discussion)at Beth Israel Medical Center (Non-ACGME accredited, 1-2/yr). The fellows are expected to function as PAs but paid only half. Contact program coordinator, Ms. Mildred Diaz (mdiaz@chpnet.org) for possible openings.

I don't believe any of this without a link to an official website or footnoted article.

There is nothing new at ACGME.org on this program's accreditation status, except that the program was up for review in March 2011. Perhaps this resident has gotten some advance/inside information on his program's upcoming accreditation status?

I believe that the OP is the same person who added this info to the wiki (look at the page history on the wiki and you will see that user "Slr1" added the info). Here is the link to the page for those interested:
http://pathinfo.wikia.com/wiki/St_Lu...Center_Program

While I am happy to have positive and negative comments posted on the wiki, everyone should take all comments (just like those on SDN or anywhere online) with a grain of salt and regard them as opinions only until backed up by verifiable references.

slrresident: thanks for sharing your comments about your program. Could you please provide a reference to the program being on probation? I will email ACGME and ask them about this as well.

ACGME clarified that this program has NOT lost accreditation as of now. Rather, it is "under review" and a proposal of possible loss of accreditation has been made, which is what the OP was likely referring to. But the ACGME's official stance is that, as of today, there has been no change in accreditation status for the St. Luke's Roosevelt Pathology program.

Originally Posted by zao275

ACGME clarified that this program has NOT lost accreditation as of now. Rather, it is "under review" and a proposal of possible loss of accreditation has been made, which is what the OP was likely referring to. But the ACGME's official stance is that, as of today, there has been no change in accreditation status for the St. Luke's Roosevelt Pathology program.

How about that unpaid GI fellowship? And the surgpath fellowship where you function as a PA but for half the pay?

Originally Posted by slrresident

The previous message is a joke. SLR pathology program is a great program. You have the chance to rotate through 3 hospitals including the Beth Israel Medical Center, which is considered in par with Mount Sinai in NYC. Huge volume and fantastic faculty. You will be well prepared for your career when you graduate.

An insider.

Either this edit is insincere or you have a really warped sense of humor.

Originally Posted by pathstudent

How about that unpaid GI fellowship? And the surgpath fellowship where you function as a PA but for half the pay?

I did not inquire of the ACGME about those fellowships, but I agree that those seem very odd to me.

Perhaps the OP had a change of heart after the initial post. I am sure the program has both pros and cons, and it would be great to hear both.

Originally Posted by slrresident

The previous message is a joke. SLR pathology program is a great program. You have the chance to rotate through 3 hospitals including the Beth Israel Medical Center, which is considered in par with Mount Sinai in NYC. Huge volume and fantastic faculty. You will be well prepared for your career when you graduate.

An insider.

This guy just got busted by his program. LOL dude. You know they can track IP addresses right?

Anonymity FAIL.

So what is going on in this program now? I heard it is truly on probation and all residents hate the program.

New info was posted on the wiki recently: http://pathinfo.wikia.com/wiki/St_Lu...Center_Program.

It appears that the program may be on probation. However, I cannot find verification of that on the ACGME website yet.

What I heard from their residents:

1. The working environment is described as "dirty and hazardous". Residents are "immersed" in formalin when they gross. The ventilation system is working less optimally, if at all working. OSHA fined them twice on the formalin issue.

2. Residents are abused to gross. There is a chronic shortage of PAs, Beth Israel in particularly. And residents are always asked to "put out the fire". As a result, residents lose their education, no preview time, no signout with attendings, and no conferences. In addition, residents are mentally abused. The attendings count the numbers of blocks each resident submits every day. If the resident does not submit a "sufficient" numbers of block, see 200-300, the chairman will come to the resident and say "Hey, you are not grossing enough and you should work more." When residents are seen in the resident's room, either taking a break, or looking at slides, some attendings will say "What are you doing here, you should be grossing."

3. Many attendings lack the interest to teach. Conferences are mostly held by residents. Even techs are asked to give lectures. There are several cytopatholgists on site and a cytotech is giving a lecture on cytology?

4. The program director asks/encourages/forces residents to lie. For example, when residents are on cytology rotation, they are asked to cover adequacy on multiple sites and signout time is severely compromised. ACGME requirement is 1,500 cytology specimens to be examined by each resident. The program director will force the residents to tell ACGME that they are meeting the numbers and a retaliation follows if they don't.

5. I specifically asked about the grossing situation of the fourth years. The PD originally wanted all 4th years to gross 3-4 months but due to the impending ACGME probation, he gave up.

6. As a result of the previous facts, the board pass rate is below average. Particularly CP is only about 50%.

Originally Posted by pathapps

What I heard from their residents:

1. The working environment is described as "dirty and hazardous". Residents are "immersed" in formalin when they gross. The ventilation system is working less optimally, if at all working. OSHA fined them twice on the formalin issue.

2. Residents are abused to gross. There is a chronic shortage of PAs, Beth Israel in particularly. And residents are always asked to "put out the fire". As a result, residents lose their education, no preview time, no signout with attendings, and no conferences. In addition, residents are mentally abused. The attendings count the numbers of blocks each resident submits every day. If the resident does not submit a "sufficient" numbers of block, see 200-300, the chairman will come to the resident and say "Hey, you are not grossing enough and you should work more." When residents are seen in the resident's room, either taking a break, or looking at slides, some attendings will say "What are you doing here, you should be grossing."

3. Many attendings lack the interest to teach. Conferences are mostly held by residents. Even techs are asked to give lectures. There are several cytopatholgists on site and a cytotech is giving a lecture on cytology?

4. The program director asks/encourages/forces residents to lie. For example, when residents are on cytology rotation, they are asked to cover adequacy on multiple sites and signout time is severely compromised. ACGME requirement is 1,500 cytology specimens to be examined by each resident. The program director will force the residents to tell ACGME that they are meeting the numbers and a retaliation follows if they don't.

5. I specifically asked about the grossing situation of the fourth years. The PD originally wanted all 4th years to gross 3-4 months but due to the impending ACGME probation, he gave up.

6. As a result of the previous facts, the board pass rate is below average. Particularly CP is only about 50%.

This is probably an exaggeration, however there are so many shoddy programs around the nation like this. We need to do our best to get these programs on probation (use those ACGME surveys to our advantage) and eventually have them done away with.

This will result in few residency spots, better applicants, better jobs, and a better future for us.

Screw the CAP and screw "transforming" pathology through useless political means. The power is in our hands. The ACGME WILL review and WILL visit programs that residents review poorly.

Let's decrease the number of residency spots ourselves.

It is now official. This program is on probation. Pending closure.

Originally Posted by MirkoCrocop

This is probably an exaggeration, however there are so many shoddy programs around the nation like this. We need to do our best to get these programs on probation (use those ACGME surveys to our advantage) and eventually have them done away with.

This will result in few residency spots, better applicants, better jobs, and a better future for us.

Screw the CAP and screw "transforming" pathology through useless political means. The power is in our hands. The ACGME WILL review and WILL visit programs that residents review poorly.

Let's decrease the number of residency spots ourselves.

Won't happen.

Think about it. Bad programs attract scramble detritus and FMGs, both very desperate types of applicants. Desperation breeds hopelessness.

These desperate residents will never badmouth their programs to the ACGME. Why? Because if the programs lose accreditation, these desperate residents will lose their jobs, and what programs, other than bad ones, would want scramble detritus and FMGs?

The best option for these people is to just complete their residencies quietly and without incident, for their options are few.

Hello, SLR resident,
Why is it that any information about this program is so hard to find- for instance any details about the fellowships, current residents/fellows, where the past graduates have gone to. I am looking at some fellowships over there and find it very difficult to find information.

Originally Posted by Substance

Won't happen.

Think about it. Bad programs attract scramble detritus and FMGs, both very desperate types of applicants. Desperation breeds hopelessness.

These desperate residents will never badmouth their programs to the ACGME. Why? Because if the programs lose accreditation, these desperate residents will lose their jobs, and what programs, other than bad ones, would want scramble detritus and FMGs?

The best option for these people is to just complete their residencies quietly and without incident, for their options are few.

All your posts from most threads seem to run quite heavy on FMG's.
Did an FMG drink your milkshake or something? lol

Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack

All your posts from most threads seem to run quite heavy on FMG's.
Did an FMG drink your milkshake or something? lol

Yeah drinking the FMG Haterade.

i rotated at this hospital in med school while on a surgery sub-I. since i was gunning for path, i spent as much time with the path department as i could. while i had a good impression of the residents, my impression of the "atmosphere" was that it was undignified and abusive. but they do see some good pathology, i will admit. but overall, i remember feeling bad for the residents. FWIW

Originally Posted by KeratinPearls

Yeah drinking the FMG Haterade.

Can't say that I dislike FMGs. It's just that their presence in a program is like the smoke of a nearby fire (especially if the program primarily does prematches). Though I am sure that a select few programs are good and match primarily FMGs due to the general unpopularity of pathology to AMGs, one would still be wise not to take chances on programs that primarily recruit FMGs, who generally have fewer options and therefore will not inspire the programs to get better instead putting their heads down and remaining silent so that they do not lose their only chance at being a physician in America. Conversely, a top med student AMG would just switch programs, and good programs know this so they try their hardest to be good programs.

There are crap AMGs too but we cannot really delineate which ones are crap and which ones are not, so they unfortunately cannot be used as a yardstick.

I think we should all step back and evaluate this tearing apart of programs, I think the most important thing for a resident to have done is match their personal philosophy and goals with what a residency program can provide, if it doesn't jive on paper early on its probably going to make for an awful residency experience. At the end of the day it is still training and we aren't making boxes here, some people may have to gross (i.e. work anyone?) as a senior resident to teach the junior ones the rules.

Now don't get me wrong, I was a pretty uppity and hot headed resident, and yes I thought at times I was getting hammered by faculty and wasting my time, but I can assure you that the problems I face in practice on a daily basis PALE in comparison to the trivial b.s. I experienced in residency. I would take talk of "bad programs" with a grain of salt. I think a positive attitude and continuous self learning will make the most of such "bad programs." Really, does one need faculty to read Rosai to oneself to learn it? Try to pick up pointers at sign out, read about your cases, and work to the best of your abilities. One thing I would think to look for in a "bad program" is how many residents left the program, seriously, if it really sucks hardcore good people will bail, that may be a good tell tale sign other than: "they make you gross" and "no time to read." The board pass rate will be something to consider too, if everyone flunking CP or AP maybe one should hammer that extra hard (of course you could have been preceded by a herd of morons).