Stating the obvious, allopathic medicine admissions...

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So given my pursuit of MD vs. DO...

I was put in touch with a friend's friend who happens to be the director of emergency medicine at a well known medical school/program. He is director of resident placement or something of that title... particular to EM.

What got me was when he exclaimed informally to me that everyone who applies to medical school these days is a 3.5GPA or higher... and a 30+ on the MCAT.

He asked me, what makes me stand out atop the crowd.

I told him about my EC's that I've posted needlessly...

and again, he exclaimed, "what makes you stand out above the rest of the candidates???"

I told him I have a significant research and clinical background that would help one excel in the medical program and surpass the average student, given a strong work ethic, discipline, continued immersion in the research and clinical realm during school - while balancing academic and personal life, like a fine tuned instrument.

.....and again he told me that I haven't answered his question. What makes me stand out?

...I have a masters degree?

.....and you can guess the rest.

I'm so glad this was informal...

....wtf? I'll totally bomb my interviews if this is true.

I'm so lost.

How would one go about answering this question?

"Are you going to keep repeating yourself like some idiotic mastermind?"

"I cured cancer, established peace in the middle east, and ended world hunger. "

He was obviously looking for one specific answer. It's a terrible interviewing technique used by clueless morons to rattle those being interviewed, as if they weren't nervous enough as it is. If I were you I wouldn't worry about it.

...By mentioning something that not every other pre-med has. You didn't answer his question. His question (in case it needs interpretation) was, "What have you done that is different from other pre-meds?" Fill in your post that way and it makes a lot more sense:

Originally Posted by rgerber85

So given my pursuit of MD vs. DO...

I was put in touch with a friend's friend who happens to be the director of emergency medicine at a well known medical school/program. He is director of resident placement or something of that title... particular to EM.

What got me was when he exclaimed informally to me that everyone who applies to medical school these days is a 3.5GPA or higher... and a 30+ on the MCAT.

He asked me, "What is different about you? What have you done that other pre-meds haven't done?"

I told him about my EC's that I've posted needlessly...

and again, he exclaimed, "But what makes you different?! Why would I want want to meet you?

I told him I have a significant research and clinical background that would help one excel in the medical program and surpass the average student, given a strong work ethic, discipline, continued immersion in the research and clinical realm during school - while balancing academic and personal life, like a fine tuned instrument.

.....and again he told me, "It sounds like you're in the crowd. Why would I want to meet you? Everyone has done research. What makes you special?"

...I have a masters degree?

"So does every candidate with a <3.5 GPA that applies. Why does this matter?"

.....and you can guess the rest.

I'm so glad this was informal...

....wtf? I'll totally bomb my interviews if this is true.

I'm so lost.

How would one go about answering this question?

Unless you have something interesting to offer that you didn't mention, you're not going to stick out from the crowd. I don't know what your ECs are, but if they were the mostly/all of the typical "I went to Africa and held dying children and volunteered at the hospital in the ER as well as did research and intramural soccer" variety you can't really expect him to get that excited....

Originally Posted by music2doc

...By mentioning something that not every other pre-med has. You didn't answer his question. His question (in case it needs interpretation) was, "What have you done that is different from other pre-meds?" Fill in your post that way and it makes a lot more sense:






Unless you have something interesting to offer that you didn't mention, you're not going to stick out from the crowd. I don't know what your ECs are, but if they were the mostly/all of the typical "I went to Africa and held dying children and volunteered at the hospital in the ER as well as did research and intramural soccer" variety you can't really expect him to get that excited....

The majority are, by definition, not unique.

Originally Posted by circulus vitios

The majority are, by definition, not unique.

So it's just luck of the draw then?

Similar to closing your eyes and driving into a busy roundabout. lovely.

Originally Posted by circulus vitios

The majority are, by definition, not unique.

Pretty much

Originally Posted by rgerber85

So it's just luck of the draw then?

Similar to closing your eyes and driving into a busy roundabout. lovely.

Like I said, it's a terrible question used by morons who think the application process should be some dog and pony tap dancing freak show.

YOU, PRE-MED! Entertain me.

Originally Posted by rgerber85

So it's just luck of the draw then?

Similar to closing your eyes and driving into a busy roundabout. lovely.

Well, the majority of people don't get into medical school. The 'unique' ones do.

Originally Posted by circulus vitios

Like I said, it's a terrible question used by morons who think the application process should be some dog and pony tap dancing freak show.

YOU, PRE-MED! Entertain me.

Originally Posted by CaliGirl14

Well, the majority of people don't get into medical school. The 'unique' ones do.

I'm unique. My mommy tells me so every time she tucks me in to bed at night and kisses me on my forehead.

Originally Posted by CaliGirl14

"I cured cancer, established peace in the middle east, and ended world hunger. "

You can't be too boastful, or they'll see right through you.
Delivering premature Somalian babies amidst AK-47 gunfire from pirates on a lifeboat hits the adcoms spot nicely!

Originally Posted by JohnnyRomanes

You can't be too boastful, or they'll see right through you.
Delivering premature Somalian babies amidst AK-47 gunfire from pirates on a lifeboat hits the adcoms spot nicely!

Was the cure for cancer too much?

Originally Posted by JohnnyRomanes

You can't be too boastful, or they'll see right through you.
Delivering premature Somalian babies amidst AK-47 gunfire from pirates on a lifeboat hits the adcoms spot nicely!

Hmmm... what about scaling Mt. Everest, only to discover that one of your party members was going into labor and the baby became hypoxic, performing an emergency c. sect, with the mother going into hypobaric hypoxia... you swiftly carry mother and child to safety at sea level where appropriate treatment can be administered.

There is nothing anyone has done that someone else hasn't done before. I'm not sure what your friend wants you to say.

Better yet, ask him what makes HIM unique. Then ask if he's a better doctor because of that.

Originally Posted by rgerber85

Hmmm... what about scaling Mt. Everest, only to discover that one of your party members was going into labor and the baby became hypoxic, performing an emergency c. sect, with the mother going into hypobaric hypoxia... you swiftly carry mother and child to safety at sea level where appropriate treatment can be administered.

Does that involve skiing or snowboarding downhill while carrying both "patients?"

Originally Posted by mejorization

Better yet, ask him what makes HIM unique. Then ask if he's a better doctor because of that.

Originally Posted by circulus vitios

The majority are, by definition, not unique.

Exactly. So if you don't stick out from the crowd, you'll get found just like anyone else in the crowd....somewhat by accident...err...luck.

Originally Posted by rgerber85

Hmmm... what about scaling Mt. Everest, only to discover that one of your party members was going into labor and the baby became hypoxic, performing an emergency c. sect, with the mother going into hypobaric hypoxia... you swiftly carry mother and child to safety at sea level where appropriate treatment can be administered.

Nope. Unethical. You shouldn't have done the c-section w/o training. But other than that, great example.

In all seriousness, how can someone stand out? I mean, I can't really think of anything that would put me into the unique pile without someone already 'been there, done that'.

Originally Posted by CaliGirl14

In all seriousness, how can someone stand out? I mean, I can't really think of anything that would put me into the unique pile without someone already 'been there, done that'.

Are we even basing this 'unique-ness' off of ECs? What about life stories? Is that a determining factor?

Originally Posted by CaliGirl14

In all seriousness, how can someone stand out? I mean, I can't really think of anything that would put me into the unique pile without someone already 'been there, done that'.

If any of us answers with something truly unique, it's likely something that's only been done by one person (hence why it's unique) and thus doing it again to try and stand out would defeat the purpose of trying to be unique.

Originally Posted by CaliGirl14

In all seriousness, how can someone stand out? I mean, I can't really think of anything that would put me into the unique pile without someone already 'been there, done that'.

While a strict definition of unique might be "one of a kind," it can be "rare" (i.e., figuratively one of a kind). An example of a student I know is an olympic athlete who is applying to medical school.

This might also be a contributing reason why music majors have a 66% acceptance rate. They may not be "unique" in the strictest sense, but they sure are unusual as far as med school applicants go.

Originally Posted by CaliGirl14

Are we even basing this 'unique-ness' off of ECs? What about life stories? Is that a determining factor?

Of course life stories are a factor. Actually, they are probably MORE of a factor than ECs simple b/c of how they define you. That said, quite often ECs reflect life stories (and vice versa).

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

If any of us answers with something truly unique, it's likely something that's only been done by one person (hence why it's unique) and thus doing it again to try and stand out would defeat the purpose of trying to be unique.

True, although giving examples might help others to recognize what makes them unique. The risk, of course, is that you make yourself quite identifiable if you reveal your unique characteristics/achievements, which may not be particularly favorable in some people's eyes.

What is the point of being unique? Adcoms rave on and on about how standing out is important. But why? Does it make you more successful as a doctor? Is it just because they get bored at interviewing the same types of people (in which case selecting for unique people is completely selfish).

Originally Posted by KaplanKrackers

What is the point of being unique? Adcoms rave on and on about how standing out is important. But why? Does it make you more successful as a doctor? Is it just because they get bored at interviewing the same types of people (in which case selecting for unique people is completely selfish).

Diversity in the classroom. More interesting to interview. Just plain more interesting.

Also... they stand out. It's like being the only one of anything. You stand out. You get noticed. It's like wearing a bright orange life vest in the middle of the ocean. You get noticed. They also want to see more than a cookie-cutter pre-med.

I think the majority of people are missing the point. It's not about being a unique perfect little snowflake, it's about your ability to sell yourself.

Funny thing is you only have to have some interesting and unique extra curriculars if you are average with GPA and MCAT. If you have good stats you can be totally bland and get in with relative ease.

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

I think the majority of people are missing the point. It's not about being a unique perfect little snowflake, it's about your ability to sell yourself.

Very true. However, that generally requires NOT mimicking everyone else. It's hard to sell yourself when everything you've done was just to fit someone else's mold. Instead, you need to be yourself so that you have something to sell. If you're volunteering all the time, there really should be a theme and it ought to be a theme that exudes from who you are. If you're doing research, hopefully it resonates with your interests and personality. Basically, be yourself. Sure, find ways to fulfill the "unwritten requirements" but do them in such a way that they resonate with who you really are. And then sell the product on applications.

Originally Posted by mejorization

There is nothing anyone has done that someone else hasn't done before. I'm not sure what your friend wants you to say.

Not 100% true, but definitely the point the OP's friend was trying to make.

For the comments about why: because diversity and unique background make the class better. 100 identical Dr's kids makes for a boring class.

OP, here's an example of something unique:

http://www.wave3.com/story/15336134/...-done-in-legos

Originally Posted by LifeTake2

Not 100% true, but definitely the point the OP's friend was trying to make.

For the comments about why: because diversity and unique background make the class better. 100 identical Dr's kids makes for a boring class.

Why am I unique? Because I'm me. Now accept me damnit.

Originally Posted by rgerber85

Why am I unique? Because I'm me. Now accept me damnit.

No. You talk like a dirty sailor.

j/k!



What about YOU makes you unique? Have you overcome a disease that normally prevents its victims from entering a field like medicine (e.g., something developmental)? Have you achieved something extraordinary (e.g., summitted all the 14'ers in the nation or biked the entire length of the West Coast)? Do you have extraordinary experiences under your belt (e.g., army/combat medic, TFA, Peace Corps, etc.)? Have you accomplished extraordinary things (e.g., started/led a nonprofit, started a significant program at your university, etc.)? Have you created something unusual (e.g., wrote a play, published a novel, published a research project that is uniquely "you" and was under your direction?)? Do you have talents unusual amongst pre-meds (e.g., highly accomplished musician, actor, dancer, athlete, magician, etc.)?

Basically... what have you done and who are you aside from academics and "standard pre-med crap"?

There are honestly hundreds (even thousands) of possible things that might make you "unique." Schools want to know what makes you you. They want to know why they would want to interview you. It's your job to make their decision easy by showing them what you have achieved.

Originally Posted by music2doc

No. You talk like a dirty sailor.

j/k!



What about YOU makes you unique? Have you overcome a disease that normally prevents its victims from entering a field like medicine (e.g., something developmental)? Have you achieved something extraordinary (e.g., summitted all the 14'ers in the nation or biked the entire length of the West Coast)? Do you have extraordinary experiences under your belt (e.g., army/combat medic, TFA, Peace Corps, etc.)? Have you accomplished extraordinary things (e.g., started/led a nonprofit, started a significant program at your university, etc.)?

There are honestly hundreds (even thousands) of possible things that might make you "unique." Schools want to know what makes you you. They want to know why they would want to interview you. It's your job to make their decision easy by showing them what you have achieved.

I know why I'm unique. I've overcome 11 years of watching my father suffer a myriad of significant health problems stemming from a mitral valvue prolapse back in 2000. After a repair... a number of idiopathic, but significant adverse events triggered; congestive heart failure, ventricular hypertrophy, tachycardia, hypotension, peripheral neuropathy, peripheral ademan, blah blah blah blah blah blah...

missed a ton of school and work to care for my daddy while my mommy went to work... all that good ****.

yes, i'm unique in that situation. but everyone has some story similar to this. overcoming adversity... working hard... succeeding at something.. And becoming a world famous doctor only to blow up a hospital and end up 1,000,000 in debt and in prison.

no?

Instead of whining about stuff that has happened to you in your lifetime that might make you unique, have you considered being proactive in partaking in something that might make you stand out? (ie, artistic endeavor, hobby, charitable effort, etc). There are ways of distinguishing yourself even in the most fortunate of circumstances.

Originally Posted by rgerber85

I know why I'm unique. I've overcome 11 years of watching my father suffer a myriad of significant health problems stemming from a mitral valvue prolapse back in 2000. After a repair... a number of idiopathic, but significant adverse events triggered; congestive heart failure, ventricular hypertrophy, tachycardia, hypotension, peripheral neuropathy, peripheral ademan, blah blah blah blah blah blah...

missed a ton of school and work to care for my daddy while my mommy went to work... all that good ****.

yes, i'm unique in that situation. but everyone has some story similar to this. overcoming adversity... working hard... succeeding at something.. And becoming a world famous doctor only to blow up a hospital and end up 1,000,000 in debt and in prison.

no?

No, actually MOST people don't (according to one adcom whose school literally asks for just those stories in their secondary). That said, make sure you focus on YOUR part in it, not your dad's. It needs to be YOUR story (not his) that forms the basis of the story. (That said, you don't want to come off cold about his condition, so don't go to the other extreme.)

Originally Posted by aSagacious

Instead of whining about stuff that has happened to you in your lifetime that might make you unique, have you considered being proactive in partaking in something that might make you stand out? (ie, artistic endeavor, hobby, charitable effort, etc). There are ways of distinguishing yourself even in the most fortunate of circumstances.

This. I actually found it difficult to answer the "tell us about adversity in your life" questions because I don't tend to think about the adversity I've encountered. Upon further reflection, I began to realize how I have come through a major illness/disability that impacts my life every day. I am simply so used to living with it and overcoming it each day that I don't even think of it as a disability. My secondary reviewers made a lot of positive comments about how my essays tended to briefly mention that disability and then focus for the next 3-4 paragraphs on how I have (and continue to) overcome it and how it has made me a better healthcare worker (and will make me a better physician).

During sophomore year of college, I played more WoW than I attended lectures. Leading raids is like herding cats, man.

Does that make me unique?!

Although, really, I have never encountered an interviewer that asked me the "unique" question (I've had 4 interviews). The closest was "what do you think you will bring / how will you contribute to the program / campus".

I once farted during a lecture given at a national conference.

I thought it was going to be silent and scentless.

....I failed miserably.

I'm unique!

^Yeah... I might suggest leaving that out of your PS....

Uniqueness is overated.

Originally Posted by aSagacious

Instead of whining about stuff that has happened to you in your lifetime that might make you unique, have you considered being proactive in partaking in something that might make you stand out? (ie, artistic endeavor, hobby, charitable effort, etc). There are ways of distinguishing yourself even in the most fortunate of circumstances.

Question...in terms of 'artistic endeavors', what would be unique? I paint..but thats about it

Originally Posted by music2doc

No. You talk like a dirty sailor.

j/k!



What about YOU makes you unique? Have you overcome a disease that normally prevents its victims from entering a field like medicine (e.g., something developmental)? Have you achieved something extraordinary (e.g., summitted all the 14'ers in the nation or biked the entire length of the West Coast)? Do you have extraordinary experiences under your belt (e.g., army/combat medic, TFA, Peace Corps, etc.)? Have you accomplished extraordinary things (e.g., started/led a nonprofit, started a significant program at your university, etc.)? Have you created something unusual (e.g., wrote a play, published a novel, published a research project that is uniquely "you" and was under your direction?)? Do you have talents unusual amongst pre-meds (e.g., highly accomplished musician, actor, dancer, athlete, magician, etc.)?

Basically... what have you done and who are you aside from academics and "standard pre-med crap"?

There are honestly hundreds (even thousands) of possible things that might make you "unique." Schools want to know what makes you you. They want to know why they would want to interview you. It's your job to make their decision easy by showing them what you have achieved.

does that really count? I don't feel unique having a chronic condition.

Originally Posted by CaliGirl14

Question...in terms of 'artistic endeavors', what would be unique? I paint..but thats about it

Well, aside from the generics (music, art, writing, etc) I've been told that it really helps your cause if you have been validated in some way through publicity. In other words if you've sold some of your paintings in a gallery, given a recital with your instrument of choice, published a book, etc.

Originally Posted by aSagacious

Well, aside from the generics (music, art, writing, etc) I've been told that it really helps your cause if you have been validated in some way through publicity. In other words if you've sold some of your paintings in a gallery, given a recital with your instrument of choice, published a book, etc.

thanks for the clarification!

Anyone want to buy my artwork?

edit: does it count if it was in elementary school? My art was in a gallery (like actually legit gallery, not a cutsey fake one) for a good year..

prolly not :/

edit again: ^ yeah dumb question nevermind don't answer.

Originally Posted by aSagacious

Instead of whining about stuff that has happened to you in your lifetime that might make you unique, have you considered being proactive in partaking in something that might make you stand out? (ie, artistic endeavor, hobby, charitable effort, etc). There are ways of distinguishing yourself even in the most fortunate of circumstances.

This is exactly the problem. If people become proactive and partake in things to make themselves unique, then those activities aren't actually saying anything about their personality other than their desire to work hard to get into med school.

Is there even much of a correlation between people with unique EC's and unique people? Even if someone is an olympic athlete, once they enter med school are they really going to be that much different based on their olympic participation? They could easily be the most 'normal' uninteresting person in the crowd. I think EC's are a very poor way to judge someone's real personality.

Lastly, why do we want such a variety of people? What's the point?

Perhaps the EM doctor was asking the OP to say something about who he is, rather than just the things he's done. An interview is not just an opportunity to review the things written in your application.

I probably would have answered his question with something like:

"My idea of a good time is drinking beer around a bonfire until it burns out. I struggle with my religious faith on a daily basis. And I am continually amazed that I can simulateously be insanely in love with my wife and still want to choke her out when she starts yelling at me because I taught our 2yo to say 'I like being butt-naked'."

It may not be the answer he was looking for, but at least it makes for a lively conversation, and I think that's probably the best you can hope for when interviewing with someone who goes through hundreds of candidates every year...

Originally Posted by KaplanKrackers

This is exactly the problem. If people become proactive and partake in things to make themselves unique, then those activities aren't actually saying anything about their personality other than their desire to work hard to get into med school.

It seems like you're completely missing how one evaluates others in an interview type of setting. You evaluate based on people's responses to situations (i.e., their behavior). Essays are a person's reflection on his/her activities/experiences. These reflections reveal A LOT about a person. How a person reacts to something is one of the most telling ways to learn who a person is. People who "try to be unique" are bound to fail because they can only mimic what others have done (i.e., their efforts are fruitless because it is not something coming from who they are but from what they believe will make them "desirable").

Is there even much of a correlation between people with unique EC's and unique people?

Well...people with unique experiences are likely to have unique perspectives...so...probably.

Even if someone is an olympic athlete, once they enter med school are they really going to be that much different based on their olympic participation? They could easily be the most 'normal' uninteresting person in the crowd. I think EC's are a very poor way to judge someone's real personality.

Whether or not it's right, people tend to idolize the best athletes. That said, these people have shown their incredible ability to focus on and achieve a goal. Someone who has one an Olympic gold medal has both incredible talent AND discipline. The latter is likely to make that person an excellent candidate for something like medicine. The former may make him/her an interesting person to meet (i.e., to interview).

Lastly, why do we want such a variety of people? What's the point?

Umm... diversity? Try making that statement in your school's diversity/multicultural/inclusiveness/etc. office. You'll probably find yourself getting crucified upside down on the school's flagpole within minutes!

Originally Posted by KaplanKrackers

Even if someone is an olympic athlete, once they enter med school are they really going to be that much different based on their olympic participation? They could easily be the most 'normal' uninteresting person in the crowd. I think EC's are a very poor way to judge someone's real personality.

EC's (and perhaps letters) are the only pre-interview tools that an adcom has to judge someone's personality. They have a stack of applicants who could easily succeed in medical school. I was told by an adcom today that their stack of people 'who would do very well' was about 2400 in a given year. OF COURSE they are going to interview the interesting ones. If you were picking a class of 100 from over 2000 qualified people, wouldn't you invite the most interesting to interview?
Diversity in a class is important because students (any group, not just medical school students) learn just as much, if not more from their classmates as they do from faculty and formal classes. Creating well rounded physicians who can relate to people from all walks of life requires that they interact with a variety of different people.
As for the OP's question, everyone is unique. As a previous poster pointed out, its about selling yourself as a unique individual. Your entire story is unique. Yes, there are people who have cared for a sick parent or had a chronic disease, but are there people who did that while also doing x, y, and z? Sell yourself through your whole story and make that an interesting read on paper, and you'll be surprised how far it can take you.

I understand the usual vision behind trying to admit someone's entire life story instead of just their GPA and test scores.

There is an enormous difference between that vision and what happens in practice.

ECs are chosen strategically and planned well in advance, often years before the application, based on which ECs people believe maximize admissions chances.

Of the people I've known with wonderful unique personalities, not a single one of them would have a list of ECs that would look different in a way that corresponds to this.

Adding more time commitments to one's overall game plan for getting into a university squeezes down the time for things that do not go on an application. This can make students seem less well rounded as people, and less like ordinary high school or college students.

ECs are independent of interaction with people. Any EC can be completed with many different ways of interacting with people. Students who put a large fraction of their life into things that can't go on an application form can also interact with lots of people in lots of ways. If anything, the students who socialize a lot, and well, have fewer ECs because socializing time cuts into both studying and ECs.

The essays students write about their ECs and life experiences can be coached, edited, or even ghost written to maximize admissions chances. There are books in print about writing the essays in a way that is calculated to maximize admissions chances. There are coaches and counselors who edit them.

Students who are trying to juggle many time commitments still live in 24 hour days. They tend to cut corners. For example, by studying only things that will be tested and graded, in bursts of adrenaline and sleep deprivation, in a way that is more like a contest than an education.

When students try to tell their story and make it interesting, there are a few themes and storylines that come up over and over and over again. I doubt it makes students stand out as much one would hope. And, like everything else that goes on application forms, we should expect it to follow the current opinion about which life stories maximize your admissions chances.