reapplication to med school after withdrawal

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I am looking for some sincere advice from members of this forum. I withdrew from a top allo med school in my third year because of family circumstances that kept my attention divided. My brother who supports our parents lost his job while I was in school and was not able to keep up with his mortgage payments. I felt obligated to help them financially by creating a small biz for them as a source of income. I did this while I was in school and ended up not being able to pass my shelf exams 3 times in a row. After a LOA I came back and their problems didn't resolve since the business was in its nascent stages and need me to manage it. So I withdrew when I didn't do well again on the shelf exams. It has been 3 years since I withdrew and their issues are resolved thanks to a steady source of income. I also developed a similar biz for myself after withdrawing that makes close to a million dollars annually in gross revenue.

I can't stop thinking about going back to medical school. I want to sell my biz and go back to school. I have trained all my life to be a physician and I have significant research experience including a NIH student grant that I got during med school. I have these failures from the third year haunting me, and I feel that they will keep me from ever getting back in to a US MD or DO school if I reapply.

I will appreciate it if some of the mature members on this forum can give me some advice. Do you think the admissions committees could look beyond my 3rd year failures?

Originally Posted by ra14206

I am looking for some sincere advice from members of this forum. I withdrew from a top allo med school in my third year because of family circumstances that kept my attention divided. My brother who supports our parents lost his job while I was in school and was not able to keep up with his mortgage payments. I felt obligated to help them financially by creating a small biz for them as a source of income. I did this while I was in school and ended up not being able to pass my shelf exams 3 times in a row. After a LOA I came back and their problems didn't resolve since the business was in its nascent stages and need me to manage it. So I withdrew when I didn't do well again on the shelf exams. It has been 3 years since I withdrew and their issues are resolved thanks to a steady source of income. I also developed a similar biz for myself after withdrawing that makes close to a million dollars annually in gross revenue.

I can't stop thinking about going back to medical school. I want to sell my biz and go back to school. I have trained all my life to be a physician and I have significant research experience including a NIH student grant that I got during med school. I have these failures from the third year haunting me, and I feel that they will keep me from ever getting back in to a US MD or DO school if I reapply.

I will appreciate it if some of the mature members on this forum can give me some advice. Do you think the admissions committees could look beyond my 3rd year failures?

Shelf exams mean nothing beyond individual grades. Have you tried contacting your original school and speaking to the Dean?

Yes I have spoken to the Dean. The institution's policy is to only grant one LOA per issue. The family's issues were the same and unresolved when I returned to repeat the third year (remediation), and I was not given the option of another LOA. I cannot return to the school unless I reapply. However, I am getting a letter of support from the Dean, and one of my clerkship attendings.

nervermind......

Any advice here would be great.

did you fail 4 different shelf exams or the same one 4 times? Which one/ones?

How were the rest of your grades?

My first 2 years were all pass without any failures or remediation. The failures occurred during the third year on 3 different clerkship exams in a row. Peds, Surg, Psych.

Originally Posted by Paine

Shelf exams mean nothing beyond individual grades. Have you tried contacting your original school and speaking to the Dean?

Where I came from, failing the shelf meant failing the clerkship. OP, how did this play out for you? Were they failures or incompletes or what?

Originally Posted by ra14206

My first 2 years were all pass without any failures or remediation. The failures occurred during the third year on 3 different clerkship exams in a row. Peds, Surg, Psych.

So you failed Peds, Surg and Psych? Did you pass any shelf exams before these?

When you came back, did you retake these or move on? Did you pass any of them?

The grades given were NC (designated failures). There were no other clerkships that I took before that.

I took a LOA and was required to return the next year. Family issues were unresolved though and same thing happened when I returned and took 3 different clerkships. I was scheduled to retake the entire clerkships from the previous year later in the year since I was on a different block layout. I failed 3 more different exams and decided to withdraw since there was no way I was able to work and study.

Transcript shows 6 clerkship failures. I do have the support of my dean to reapply to that school and others.

I'm gonna be honest, 6 clerkship failures is a difficult situation, no matter what the background, in terms of gaining re-admission. While your pre-clinical grades sound like they were pretty good, unfortunately you couldn't convert that into good shelf scores.

Usually the best chance of getting into school is getting back into the school you came from. It sounds like that is a no-go. The second option for you would be a transfer to 3rd year and restart. Transfers for third year are difficult even for someone is excellent standing. Unfortunately, you have 6 clerkship failures- essentially all of 3rd year. That's gonna make the 2nd option unlikely to be successful.

The last would be to re-apply as a new 1st year and repeat all of the pre-clinical courses. Again, schools will know you failed 6 core clerkships which is going to make you less attractive than someone with a clean slate and the possibility of passing everything.

So just my gestalt would be that you won't be able to get in. Before I ruin your dream, you might want to cold call a few admission programs and see what they actually say. It sounds like outside of medicine you have been quite successful and I would say before you go and drop that for a pipedream you should get the facts straight from the source. If the admission programs say that they would strongly consider your application then go ahead and apply. Otherwise, I'm not sure it is worth your time, money and effort.

I've called several schools. MD schools that will consider my app for review say it will be unlikely. Admission offices at DO schools say that they look at the whole app; some DO recruiters tell me they do give people second chances but the only way to know is apply and see.
I have a great GPA, lots of research, publication as first author, good LORs, some volunteer experience before I went to med school. The poor performance in the third year is haunting my reapplication efforts.

It is really hard to trust the information that I am getting from some offices. I spoke to a admissions rep at a DO school and they told me that my previous matriculation does not matter as along as I have good GPA and MCAT scores.

Were you able to return to school? I am in similar boat but I actually finished all 4 years and withdrew because mother passed away and same week my father was rediagnosed with cancer and I had to help him and grieve on my own. All I had to do was take Step 2 CS. I don't know if my school or dean will support me. I made good grades and passed step 1 first try very easily. I want to go back to allopathic school but don't know if it is an option. Any advice would be appreciated. I am willing to start over as MS-1 at my age of 32. I have been a college professor in the past few years but my heart is in patient care.

I went to school with a guy who had a similar home situation and ended up leaving an MD school due to family reasons after second year. I am not privvy whether he failed exams or not. Anyhow, he applied DO and started over with us as a first year and made it through. I think the DO side will give you more leniency and I believe that they do look at the circumstance and the entire application. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. I am a total outlier here since academic issues never popped up for me. The dean of medicine from one of the University of Texas allopathic schools is meeting with me on Friday to discuss everything ( not to name the school but there are 5 medical school in University of texas system and I did go to one of them). Let you know if it works out. I do not know much about DO programs. I know of TCOM in Ft. Worth and the one in Kansas City. Are there any others in Texas? We have 8 allopathic and one osteopathic to my knowledge. Also my wife has been offered an attending spot at Dell childrens Hospital in Austin and at Texas Children's Hospital in Houston, part of Baylor college of medicine. So i really want to stay close to her.

TCOM is the only DO school in Texas

Is TCOM considered good?

Originally Posted by jms45

Is TCOM considered good?

Really? It's good if they accept you and you get the be a doctor. Many of my fellow residents went to TCOM. Just like any medical school in this country, it's up to the individual to make the most of their educational opportunity.

I was not familiar with TCOMs reputation nationally that is why I asked. I did not mean to offend you. I am just not familiar with osteopathic schools and just trying to get some info.

Originally Posted by cabinbuilder

Really? It's good if they accept you and you get the be a doctor. Many of my fellow residents went to TCOM. Just like any medical school in this country, it's up to the individual to make the most of their educational opportunity.

Could not agree more, education is what we as an individual make of it. I think also the only thing that we are entitled to in life is to work hard. So sorry for any miscommunication. I would be honored to go to TCOM.

Originally Posted by jms45

I was not familiar with TCOMs reputation nationally that is why I asked. I did not mean to offend you. I am just not familiar with osteopathic schools and just trying to get some info.

I am not offended. It's just that in the end the only people who care about a "school's reputation" are pre-med students. The patients WILL NEVER ASK you want medical school you went to. They only care that you are there to take care of then at that moment. Any medical school in the United States will provide you with a good education and allow you to be the doctor you want to be.

Originally Posted by cabinbuilder

I am not offended. It's just that in the end the only people who care about a "school's reputation" are pre-med students. The patients WILL NEVER ASK you want medical school you went to. They only care that you are there to take care of then at that moment. Any medical school in the United States will provide you with a good education and allow you to be the doctor you want to be.

This is a pretty naive view that seems to permeate these boards. Academic medicine and residency directors (to a lesser extent) do consider the reputation of the schools. When I worked as a hospital volunteer, some patients mentioned "Googling" their doctors to see which medical schools and residencies they attended.

I do agree that some of my fellow students over at pre-allo can be a little hyperbolic when it comes to the importance of reputation, but saying that "only people who care about a school's reputation are pre-med students" is just as bad of an exaggeration.

And, to each his/her own, but caring about prestige and reputation isn't something that immediately deserves scrutiny (although the OP probably has more pressing issues to worry about atm). The OP has no reason to apologize.

Originally Posted by Finches

This is a pretty naive view that seems to permeate these boards. Academic medicine and residency directors (to a lesser extent) do consider the reputation of the schools. When I worked as a hospital volunteer, some patients mentioned "Googling" their doctors to see which medical schools and residencies they attended.

I do agree that some of my fellow students over at pre-allo can be a little hyperbolic when it comes to the importance of reputation, but saying that "only people who care about a school's reputation are pre-med students" is just as bad of an exaggeration.

And, to each his/her own, but caring about prestige and reputation isn't something that immediately deserves scrutiny (although the OP probably has more pressing issues to worry about atm). The OP has no reason to apologize.

Interesting how everything I seem to say comes back as an attack. The say that my view is naive seems quite rude. Sure there are those patients who insist that their doctor went to Harvard and that is their choice but I on the flip side to say that prestige matters to everyone is equally naive. Since I'm not in academic medicine, never wanted to be, nor will I ever be, my view is essentially true in my world. Perhaps if I was so hung up on credentials and wanted to practice in Chicago, LA, or NYC it would matter to me. I do rural medicine, always have, and always will and in that venue, where the patients are so desperate for doctors where I went to school is the least of their worries. Besides I didn't ask anyone to apologize to me as you have insinuated in your reply. I didn't even go to TCOM and could care less about there perceived reputation. For those of us where medical school was a huge iffy longshot, I was just happy for that letter of acceptance and the opportunity to be the physician I wanted to be.

Originally Posted by cabinbuilder

Interesting how everything I seem to say comes back as an attack. The say that my view is naive seems quite rude. Sure there are those patients who insist that their doctor went to Harvard and that is their choice but I on the flip side to say that prestige matters to everyone is equally naive. Since I'm not in academic medicine, never wanted to be, nor will I ever be, my view is essentially true in my world. Perhaps if I was so hung up on credentials and wanted to practice in Chicago, LA, or NYC it would matter to me. I do rural medicine, always have, and always will and in that venue, where the patients are so desperate for doctors where I went to school is the least of their worries. Besides I didn't ask anyone to apologize to me as you have insinuated in your reply. I didn't even go to TCOM and could care less about there perceived reputation. For those of us where medical school was a huge iffy longshot, I was just happy for that letter of acceptance and the opportunity to be the physician I wanted to be.

Regarding the first bolded part: For what it's worth, I completely agree with you that saying "prestige matters to everyone" is, also, equally naive. That was my point all along: trying to speak for an all-inclusive population is a very naive perspective. By saying "ONLY premeds care about prestige", in essence you're saying "everyone else (e.g. ALL PATIENTS) couldn't care less", which is wrong. Yes, it may be true in your world, but generalizing your world as THE world is basically the textbook definition of the word naive.

Regarding the second bolded part: Wasn't insinuating that, but rather wanted to point out that a lot of people seem to apologize for caring about prestige on these boards in general. If it came off as me saying that you are not deserving of an apology, I apologize.

I understand SDN can be an immature playground, but don't take everything so personally.
If you find an internet comment, stating that your comment seemed a bit naive since it was an over-generalization, as rude or an attack at you, you're taking yourself way too seriously and might be a bit oversensitive. Especially if I gave a perfectly good reason as to why I believe you're being naive.

And maybe this pattern that you're noticing, of, "how everything I seem to say comes back as an attack" isn't a reflection on others, but you. Just something to consider.

NIce, will be interesting to see how views change in 10 years.

Likewise; let us know.

I though I update this thread. Very difficult to get back once you withdraw or get dismissed. Especially if you did not do well academically towards the end before leaving, regardless of the reasons for the interruption. ADCOMS are not forgiving people.
I wonder what people think about trying for dental school.

Originally Posted by ra14206

I wonder what people think about trying for dental school.

More importantly, how do YOU feel about dental school?