Why is Allopathic school favored over Osteopathic?

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I was unaware that so many people had asked about this topic on this forum. I would like to state that my original post was not a "DO vs. MD" topic; I was asking why people prefer one over the other. I am well aware of the differences in the two.

On another note, thank you for all of the replies to this post. I'm new to the site and I've enjoyed reading the small debates that have taken place. Some of this information just can't be found in articles (or on med school websites) and the forum system of communication is very helpful due to that inconvenience.

Originally Posted by willen101383

I am derailing this thread bc ur username made me think of this adorable dog

Originally Posted by JRWPREMED

I was unaware that so many people had asked about this topic on this forum. I would like to state that my original post was not a "DO vs. MD" topic; I was asking why people prefer one over the other. I am well aware of the differences in the two.

On another note, thank you for all of the replies to this post. I'm new to the site and I've enjoyed reading the small debates that have taken place. Some of this information just can't be found in articles (on med school websites) and the forum system of communication is very helpful due to that inconvenience.

No problem...like any forum, if you just join and ask a question you are going to get $hit on. I am guilty of doing this same stuff on other forums I frequent for various other hobbies of mine.

Originally Posted by Barcu

My fave part: "good girl" "owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww" haha.

I have 3 dogs so I am a sucker for dog cuteness

Originally Posted by willen101383

I am derailing this thread bc ur username made me think of this adorable dog

.

The unfortunate stigma that comes with being a DO doesnt help for sure.

Originally Posted by BA11

The unfortunate stigma that comes with being a DO doesnt help for sure.

Is the stigma really that strong? From my own experience, it doesn't seem like people care all that much.

Merging related threads

Originally Posted by mybubbles627

People constantly say that going MD results in better residency placement. However, would a student who is at the top of their DO class get a better residency placement that someone in the middle/towards the bottom of their MD class?

Originally Posted by theseeker4

Depends entirely on the residency program. Some program directors won't consider DO applicants at all, some will from specific schools they are familiar with but not most, some will give preference to MD applicants but consider DO applicants, and some probably ignore the letters after an applicant's name entirely and base everything off the rest of their application.

Originally Posted by Barcu

There are many, many more factors at play than class rank.

Merging related threads

Originally Posted by running2nguyen

I searched around a little, but I couldn't find a good answer to this question. Wouldn't a DO be just as qualified for a residency as an MD? I know there is a little difference as far as the school of thought and that DOs learn OMM, but overall wouldn't a DO know just as much as an MD when placing into a residency? I just don't see what sets them apart when it comes to matching into a residency. Thanks for your input!

Originally Posted by mishaS

MD residencies have ACGME accreditation vs DO residencies which are AOA accredited. MDs can't get a AOA residency, and ACGME will show preference towards MDs because, simply put, their responsibility is towards MD students first. Don't get me wrong, DOs can get into desired MD residency programs, they just have a bit more of an uphill battle. There is also a stigma regarding DOs which probably can't be ignored.

Originally Posted by willen101383

This. Hell....I am a DO student and I think its BS that MD students cant apply to AOA programs...yet we are able to apply ACGME.

Originally Posted by willen101383

My fave part: "good girl" "owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww" haha.

I have 3 dogs so I am a sucker for dog cuteness

Originally Posted by Nooblet

There are more than enough qualified MD students applying to those residencies, of course they will get preference over a DO student. In fact, in more competitive specialties/programs, they won't even take a look at your app

Originally Posted by BA11

The unfortunate stigma that comes with being a DO doesnt help for sure.

Originally Posted by BurntFlower

Is the stigma really that strong? From my own experience, it doesn't seem like people care all that much.

Originally Posted by Frazier

What is the unfortunate stigma?

Originally Posted by aSagacious

Merging related threads

But why? They are all so different and diverse and there have been so many of them in the past 24 hours.

Originally Posted by Frazier

What is the unfortunate stigma?

Simply put, there's still a lot of people who don't think DOs are as qualified or well-trained or whatever as MDs. Even among people who know there isnt much difference anymore, it affects decisions because of public perception.

Honestly, I've met quite a few people not involved in the medical field who don't even know what a DO is let alone know they are just as qualified as an MD. I shadowed a DO who said he has had patients cancel and even walk out of the office when they found out he was a DO. People think it's MD-light, so to speak.

There is def a "stigma" that goes alone with matching but out in the real world I have yet to see this exist in terms of clinical medicine...and ive been out in the work world for a while prior to med school. Sure in academic medicine its there and we all know it but in my experience nobody cares. And for every pt that gives a ****...100s more will be glad to use your services.

every time i see one of these threads, i think of the only one i've ever subscribed to:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...=813819&page=6

maybe that one should be stickied or something.

It's all due to the fact that, in the long, long ago, DOs were not recognised as physicians, but as some sort of alternative health professionals. This is still the case for ostheopaths trained outside the U.S., who cannot write scripts or perform surgery. Now that they are full fledged physicians, the profession is still stygmatised from the old days and less people want to be DOs as opposed to "real" MDs. Because of this, the admission standards are more lax, resulting in DOs having a harder time matching, resulting in less people wanting to be DOs. Ultimately, the reason and the result are the product of a vicious circle, which, hopefully for DOs, will turn into an upward spiral until they catch up to MDs in the collective perception. This will, of course, mean that, eventually, the admission criteria will become similar for both professional schools.

Because cranial OMM is a load of BS? Sure it's only a small part of what you'll learn in a DO school, but I could never take the administration seriously while they're peddling it.

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

Because cranial OMM is a load of BS? Sure it's only a small part of what you'll learn in a DO school, but I could never take the administration seriously while they're peddling it.

LOL isn't your avatar against TOS? i hope it's not, because i love it. well-played, sir

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

Because cranial OMM is a load of BS? Sure it's only a small part of what you'll learn in a DO school, but I could never take the administration seriously while they're peddling it.

This is part of the reason why it will take a long, long time for DO's to fully integrate with MD's (ie change their degree name). There are ~5% of DO students who are hardcore OMM fans while the rest are apathetic or don't like it. Unfortunately, it's these 5% who end up taking leadership positions in DO schools and the AOA resulting in no "merger" from occurring.

Originally Posted by RogueUnicorn

because this post helps the OP

derp de dippipidy derp de duuu

Originally Posted by Kadava Reviva

It's all due to the fact that, in the long, long ago, DOs were not recognised as physicians, but as some sort of alternative health professionals. This is still the case for ostheopaths trained outside the U.S., who cannot write scripts or perform surgery. Now that they are full fledged physicians, the profession is still stygmatised from the old days and less people want to be DOs as opposed to "real" MDs. Because of this, the admission standards are more lax, resulting in DOs having a harder time matching, resulting in less people wanting to be DOs. Ultimately, the reason and the result are the product of a vicious circle, which, hopefully for DOs, will turn into an upward spiral until they catch up to MDs in the collective perception. This will, of course, mean that, eventually, the admission criteria will become similar for both professional schools.

If this were entirely true would you support a motion that unilaterally increases acceptance scores for DO schools to match MD?

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

Because cranial OMM is a load of BS? Sure it's only a small part of what you'll learn in a DO school, but I could never take the administration seriously while they're peddling it.

hahahahahaha omg, your avatar.

Yes, I agree. Some of the OMM is just odd. I personally love the stories that get passed down in the "DO Lore."

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

If this were entirely true would you support a motion that unilaterally increases acceptance scores for DO schools to match MD?

I couldn't care less. I'm a Canadian MD.

Originally Posted by Frazier

I can't imagine that it is against TOS being that Ball-All-Day-Ray is not only a famous individual due to all his National News coverage, but he also has many (MANY) websites promoting himself and his accomplishments...plus he is a famous rapper promoter/sidekick/entourage person. He's a public figure.

It is no different than having Drake, Ronald Reagan, or Ann Perkins as an avatar.

very true. You forgot to mentioned that he is also a famed philanthropist (much like andrew carnegie)

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

Because cranial OMM is a load of BS? Sure it's only a small part of what you'll learn in a DO school, but I could never take the administration seriously while they're peddling it.

Cranial was taught in 2 lab sections by some of the more hardcore OMM people. It wasnt tested on any practical because even the "regular hardcore" OMM faculty know its bullsht. All the students were laughing during the lab and not one person said they felt anything.

And with regard to administration....part of the reason I am sort of uncomfortable at my school is because there are basically 2 different administrations: the "real" guys and the OMM dept. Both are totally separate....nothing is integrated from one dept into the other...and you can sense that the OMM dept really feels like they are second class (which they are)....and in turn this gets passed onto the students in terms of nasty attitudes and inane rules and regulations.

I think the cranial labs turned a lot of the "on the fence" people into OMM haters. It was like I was at hogwarts for 2 days. Either way, the OMM dept peddling cranial had nothign to do with the "typical" half of the administration. I am sure they are as embarrassed by it as the students are.

Originally Posted by willen101383

Cranial was taught in 2 lab sections by some of the more hardcore OMM people. It wasnt tested on any practical because even the "regular hardcore" OMM faculty know its bullsht. All the students were laughing during the lab and not one person said they felt anything.

And with regard to administration....part of the reason I am sort of uncomfortable at my school is because there are basically 2 different administrations: the "real" guys and the OMM dept. Both are totally separate....nothing is integrated from one dept into the other...and you can sense that the OMM dept really feels like they are second class (which they are)....and in turn this gets passed onto the students in terms of nasty attitudes and inane rules and regulations.

I think the cranial labs turned a lot of the "on the fence" people into OMM haters. It was like I was at hogwarts for 2 days. Either way, the OMM dept peddling cranial had nothign to do with the "typical" half of the administration. I am sure they are as embarrassed by it as the students are.

interesting... Are people (administration etc) afraid to bring this up and talk about it?

If MD schools tried to teach "blood letting" or something, i'm sure someone would stand up and call BS

M.D. = Lexus

D.O. = Toyota

Originally Posted by Rippey

M.D. = Lexus

D.O. = Toyota

ehhh I don't know about that.

Originally Posted by Bl4ckout

ehhh I don't know about that.

Yeah considering I would never drive a toyota...funny though since my dad is an MD and is a lexushead. So maybe lexus=MD........GTI=DO (thats what i currently whip it in).

Originally Posted by Bl4ckout

interesting... Are people (administration etc) afraid to bring this up and talk about it?

If MD schools tried to teach "blood letting" or something, i'm sure someone would stand up and call BS

I really dont know what the deal is. I know cranial is on the comlex so technically it needs to be taught. So change would need to come from COCA/AOA and that will never happen. I considered writing an e mail to the dean/president about my views on teaching a debunked methodology at an american medical school (and one sometimes considered as the best DO school)..but decided it wouldnt change anything.

Most of my classmates have adopted a "just keep ur head down and run" methodology about OMM and the BS that is taught. I am only a few months away from 3rd year so my OMM days are numbered as well...and nothing I say or do will benefit myself or my class. Earlier this year I tried to get a few of my classmates to get a petition started about some issues...but everyone was too scared. Frankly, being that I was a complete dip**** in 2004 and made my username contain my birthday, and thus I am identifiable, I am a bit scared to post anything in public like this too.

Originally Posted by Bl4ckout

derp de dippipidy derp de duuu

that about sums up your intellectual prowess

Originally Posted by Frazier

I can't imagine that it is against TOS being that Ball-All-Day-Ray is not only a famous individual due to all his National News coverage, but he also has many (MANY) websites promoting himself and his accomplishments...plus he is a famous rapper promoter/sidekick/entourage person. He's a public figure.

It is no different than having Drake, Ronald Reagan, or Ann Perkins as an avatar.

awesome. can we have a Ray Day once a year, where all the mods make their avatars Ray-themed?

Originally Posted by Frazier

Here is a possible reason:



Being that those are numerical means, I imagine that there are plenty of students with a score of 22 (or below) on the MCAT thrown in the class cohorts. I prefer surrounding myself with classmates that put a higher priority on scholarly endeavors and their academics... and if one is to try to claim that the folks making up that "25 mcat average and 3.3 GPA" do, in fact, value their academics then it opens up a whole 'nother can of worms requiring one to step back and instead question their intellectual capacity.

Is this why most of your friends are on SDN?

Originally Posted by ensuii

Is this why most of your friends are on SDN?

says a WVSOM m3?

Originally Posted by Bl4ckout

says a WVSOM m3?

They get so sensitive. Even when facts are presented.

Originally Posted by willen101383

This. Hell....I am a DO student and I think its BS that MD students cant apply to AOA programs...yet we are able to apply ACGME.

I know the cited reasoning behind this is that DO students learn things they dont teach at allo schools (i.e. OMM). Do you know anyone in an AOA residency that can attest to whether OMM is actually used or is a necessary component of that residency?

Is there really another MD vs DO thread? Can't somebody do something about this?

Having interviewed at both MD and DO schools, I would of hands down picked the DO school if I didn't have to deal with the extra hassle (taking step 1 and complex, etc..).

Why? At every school I visited, both the applicants and students were much chiller and down to earth at the DO schools. There is something in the DO admissions process...they dont accept people who are so full of themselves just because they got a 35 on the MCAT.

Originally Posted by link2swim06

Having interviewed at both MD and DO schools, I would of hands down picked the DO school if I didn't have to deal with the extra hassle (taking step 1 and complex, etc..).

Why? At every school I visited, both the applicants and students were much chiller and down to earth at the DO schools. There is something in the DO admissions process...they dont accept people who are so full of themselves just because they got a 35 on the MCAT.

which DO school did you like?

I've met cool people and have generally liked everything at my interviews.

Originally Posted by Bl4ckout

which DO school did you like?

I've met cool people and have generally liked everything at my interviews.

I interviewed at Ohio University and LECOM-B, both had very nice faculty (especially OU). I would have probably ended up at LECOM-B, because I really wanted to do the PBL thing as a pre-med (little did I know..).

Dont get me wrong, both MD/DO schools had nice people at interviews....but I remember at a few interviews for MD schools encountering some people pretty full of themselves. And if you were wondering, yes, there are a handful of people like this in my class now.

I guess for me, I had more to talk about with the fellow applicants at my DO interviews, maybe more interests outside of medicine? Maybe more down to earth? Anyhow, I found plenty of people at my current school who are chill so it all worked out.

Originally Posted by SellerAl

Is there really another MD vs DO thread? Can't somebody do something about this?

This is not another MD vs DO thread. This is an opinion based thread on why people favor one over the other. I was well aware of the differences in MD and DO when I posted this. Can we please move past this? I am new to the site and was unaware of the numerous threads on the topic. Give me a break.

Originally Posted by Rippey

M.D. = Lexus

D.O. = Toyota

MDs drive Toyota's and DOs drive Lexus.

Originally Posted by pre med 2014

MDs drive Toyota's and DOs drive Lexus.

and caribbean doctors fly helicopters

Originally Posted by Bl4ckout

and caribbean doctors fly helicopters

It's kinda weird how helicopters can outperform a lot of powered airplanes.

I'm pretty sure this M.D. superiority complex on exists in the minds of pre-meds.

Originally Posted by pre med 2014

It's kinda weird how helicopters can outperform a lot of powered airplanes.

they do seem quite efficient.

Originally Posted by MIAYO

They get so sensitive. Even when facts are presented.

Facts or no facts its still a dick statement to try to claim that WVSOM students dont take their academics seriously based on stats.

Only on SDN do you see this level of douchebaggery.

Originally Posted by willen101383

Facts or no facts its still a dick statement to try to claim that WVSOM students dont take their academics seriously based on stats.

Only on SDN do you see this level of douchebaggery.

well i didn't take academics seriously in highschool and turned it around for college.

If they pass their boards its all good.

But one of the least competent girls I was friends with in UG in starting at LECOM next year.. I have a hard time believing she'll survive. She was the girl who would study much longer then everyone, but still do far worst on tests. I never got it.

Originally Posted by Bl4ckout

ehhh I don't know about that.

lol reminds me when I was shadowing a MD and this old pathologist (MD) said

MD = RN
DO = LVN

the MD I was with got super pissed and told him off in front of other doctors. From what he said, it's usually the really-old-that-need-to-retire-already doctors that usually are the haters.

Originally Posted by Bl4ckout

well i didn't take academics seriously in highschool and turned it around for college.

If they pass their boards its all good.

But one of the least competent girls I was friends with in UG in starting at LECOM next year.. I have a hard time believing she'll survive. She was the girl who would study much longer then everyone, but still do far worst on tests. I never got it.

I graduated with a 2.45. Based on that data do you think I would survive in medical school? Nope. However I cleaned up my act in graduate school with over 70 credits at a 3.75 and easily score at or above the means in med school with minimal studying. Things arent always what they seem based on stats alone, and I am sure I brought my school's average GPA down. Does that mean I dont take my studies seriously? Hell no.

People shouldnt be so quick to judge...especially other med students. They are med students for a reason: because they take their academics seriously. In my experience MCAT scores and undergrad GPA have absolutely nothing to do with med school success. I consistently smoke kids who had MCAT scores/GPAs far above mine. Sure perhaps the MCAT has some loose correlation with step 1 scores...but I still dont think it carries as much weight as people on SDN think it does.

People in the know have all sorts of reasons from overall quality of education to options for rotations to preference/lack thereof for OMM. In all honesty, though, I think the biggest reason is simple familiarity. People hear about MDs more than they do about DOs, they see more MDs in a hospital, and the degree is more mainstream in the field. Allopathy is then seen as the main way to go, with osteopathy viewed as an "alternative" pathway. For my own part I've seen all the MD schools in Illinois (where I'm from) and DMU is my first choice over any of them. I felt the facilities and faculty were far superior, I got a much better vibe from the students, and research is not a priority for me. You just have to look around to find out which school fits you the best based on what you want in your education. Each pathway has its own great and mediocre schools.

For what it's worth, I work in a hospital and all the doctors I've talked to (MD or DO) say it makes less of a difference where you go to med school or what pathway you choose than how hard you work and what you get on your board scores.