USC First Year Cost Of Attendance $114k

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http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dd...of-attendance/

Total 4 year cost: little north of $400k, actual number is about $450k if you include interest accrued during school.

At about 6% interest rate, that's $2,250 a month of just interest payment after graduation.

At this rate, in 5 years, USC will charge $500k to teach you dentistry.

What do folks at USC think of all this? Cater to the rich?

Back away, not today Disco lady.

Originally Posted by Cold Front

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dd...of-attendance/

Total 4 year cost: little north of $400k, actual number is about $450k if you include interest accrued during school.

At about 6% interest rate, that's $2,250 a month of just interest payment after graduation.

At this rate, in 5 years, USC will charge $500k to teach you dentistry.

What do folks at USC think of all this? Cater to the rich?

Cater to the rich? What are you talking about...anyone can take loans out, and do. And cost of attendance has nothing to do with loan interest after graduation.

Originally Posted by Cold Front

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dd...of-attendance/

Total 4 year cost: little north of $400k, actual number is about $450k if you include interest accrued during school.

At about 6% interest rate, that's $2,250 a month of just interest payment after graduation.

At this rate, in 5 years, USC will charge $500k to teach you dentistry.

What do folks at USC think of all this? Cater to the rich?

It's ridiculous. Take a look at some other schools like UPENN, Case, UOP, and NYU and the picture is pretty bleak as well. I love dentistry, but the costs of education are eating the newcomers to this profession alive. Praying for a bailout or inflation when I graduate.

At USC, I have no idea where all this money goes. I know it is expensive to staff a dental school and keep the prices of the clinic competitive with free market rates, but I am seeing alot of inefficiencies here. Before the 35 million dollar donation, prices were spiraling out of control here. Now they are just simply creeping up like every other institution of higher education.

Look into military scholarships, school scholarships, whatever to keep your debt down. There are options out there but you have to pursue them aggresively. If you get into a state school, don't even think twice about going. For Californios like me though, all our options are pretty expensive, and our 2 state schools UCLA and UCSF are very competitive to get into.

Originally Posted by Cold Front

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dd...of-attendance/

Total 4 year cost: little north of $400k, actual number is about $450k if you include interest accrued during school.

At about 6% interest rate, that's $2,250 a month of just interest payment after graduation.

At this rate, in 5 years, USC will charge $500k to teach you dentistry.

What do folks at USC think of all this? Cater to the rich?

Running USC's numbers, I got closer to 485K owed at graduation (using a mere 7.3% interest averaged between 6.8% and 7.9%). This is also assuming they do not increase prices at all for the next 4 years. Considering how student who are entering now will likely experience at least a little price increase, I think they are already at that 500K mark.

Originally Posted by Bereno

Running USC's numbers, I got closer to 485K owed at graduation (using a mere 7.3% interest averaged between 6.8% and 7.9%). This is also assuming they do not increase prices at all for the next 4 years. Considering how student who are entering now will likely experience at least a little price increase, I think they are already at that 500K mark.

lol Getting your MD/DO costs what, 250K?

Yikes! $120K is about what tuition is for all four years at most public schools! Good luck, especially if you plan to practice in LA where there are dentists literally on every corner.

Originally Posted by DMDWANNABEE

lol Getting your MD/DO costs what, 250K?

Yup, my MD buddies are amazed at how much d-students accumulate over time. But it sort of evens out if you think about it. They are picking up the same loans as we are, yet if they only want to be a GP, they still go through residency for like 2-3 more years. Then interest piles up and brings them a bit closer to us haha.

MD/DO degrees can go for as little as 120 at public schools or privite schools (for tuition). Sometimes I wonder if I'm gonig in the right direction as there is a DO school 2 states away that hits that 120k - for 4 years of tuition.

Then consider that some physician can earn major bank. If you're good in DDS school you'll get that ortho residency and make 200-300k; however, if you're talented in DO/MD you have the potential to get into something like radiology - I've seen positions in the midwest that start at 700k/yr. Not a bad investment!

that is some insane tuition.

definitely makes you think whether it is worth it or not

Originally Posted by yappy

MD/DO degrees can go for as little as 120 at public schools or privite schools (for tuition). Sometimes I wonder if I'm gonig in the right direction as there is a DO school 2 states away that hits that 120k - for 4 years of tuition.

Then consider that some physician can earn major bank. If you're good in DDS school you'll get that ortho residency and make 200-300k; however, if you're talented in DO/MD you have the potential to get into something like radiology - I've seen positions in the midwest that start at 700k/yr. Not a bad investment!

most doctors dont earn 700. Doctors def out-earn dentists but their hourly rate is crap when you compare it with ours. If I work 80 hours a week vs. 40, then yes I'll expect more yearly compensation, but that's working harder and not smarter. I'd rather earn that higher hourly rate and not work like an illegal immigrant.

True. But even hospitalists can earn 250k working a 7 on / 7 off schedule @ 10 hrs per day. That works out to 35hrs per week. Once you factor in health benfits, 401k, and covered mal practice it's hard to say it's such a bad gig. I'm actually struggling with it - being a physician doesnt seem as bad as I once heard in terms of life style. Dentistry is great but when tuition is getting this high it makes one look at the value critically. No ones going to bail us out.

Originally Posted by wired202808

most doctors dont earn 700. Doctors def out-earn dentists but their hourly rate is crap when you compare it with ours. If I work 80 hours a week vs. 40, then yes I'll expect more yearly compensation, but that's working harder and not smarter. I'd rather earn that higher hourly rate and not work like an illegal immigrant.

Originally Posted by DentPilot

Yikes! $120K is about what tuition is for all four years at most public schools! Good luck, especially if you plan to practice in LA where there are dentists literally on every corner.

Here's a hint. There actually IS civilization with actual running water and electricity and even a Starbucks or two that exists outside of say a 50 mile radius from LA. And in many places it's a heck of a lot cheaper to live there, and there actually are a bunch of people that live in these areas that have actual real teeth to work on, and chances are that 5 out of 10 of the people that live near you WON''T be a dentist

Do you think the banks might eventually open up dental clinics and offer repayment and forgiveness plans?

Originally Posted by DrJeff

Here's a hint. There actually IS civilization with actual running water and electricity and even a Starbucks or two that exists outside of say a 50 mile radius from LA. And in many places it's a heck of a lot cheaper to live there, and there actually are a bunch of people that live in these areas that have actual real teeth to work on, and chances are that 5 out of 10 of the people that live near you WON''T be a dentist

50 miles out of Los Angeles doesn't put you in any better of a situation in terms of saturation of dentists. I agree that there are a ton of people who practice here but there are also a ton of people who live here. Many dentists that I know or have spoken to are doing just fine, even with competition at every corner. It's about how your market your office, how you run your practice, and the business behind the dentistry. I don't understand the claims that people make about working in a big metropolitan city.

Originally Posted by Cold Front

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dd...of-attendance/

Total 4 year cost: little north of $400k, actual number is about $450k if you include interest accrued during school.

At about 6% interest rate, that's $2,250 a month of just interest payment after graduation.

At this rate, in 5 years, USC will charge $500k to teach you dentistry.

What do folks at USC think of all this? Cater to the rich?

**** this.. **** this and then again.... **** THIS~~!!!

Or just dont go to USC? lol.

Originally Posted by Imi Goldberg

**** this.. **** this and then again.... **** THIS~~!!!

I really want to go to USC. My mom is only a school teacher, and can't help me out financially. My father died and left me $300K. I tried to go military scholarship, but I have taken meds in the last year that disqualified me. Can I really afford to go to USC? I was planning on coming up with some combination of loans like stafford and grad plus, as well as using some of my own resources. Does this make sense? Thanks!

I am a USC grad and I was really happy with the school and the education that I got but if I had it to do over again I would pick the cheapest school that I was accepted to and not have to worry about the $5000 a month loan payments for the next 10-15 years.

dentistry is worth it for the right price. OOS is probably 300K+ and in-state is roughly 200k+. It's going to be the difference between paying 3-4k a month after you come out. people that get involved in dentistry tend to be those that see the financial benefits of being a dentist and the autonomy we have. No one grows up wanting to be a dentist. It's the lifestyle and potential income that makes dentistry so appealing. Plus, medicine is going to get raped by obamacare even more, if it hasn't already happened to many physicians around the country.

Originally Posted by a2ndragoon89

Plus, medicine is going to get raped by obamacare even more, if it hasn't already happened to many physicians around the country.

It'll catch up to dentists eventually as well. Just saying, the universe balances itself out. Whether it be through hygienists or tuition rises such as this one or dental insurance companies saying, "why the hell are we paying them so much?". Although on the other hand the whole "glamour is inversely proportional to money" thing is definitely true e.g. Podiatrists heavy income.

Dentistry won't catch up to medicine until the general public realizes that oral health IS important to one's general health. For some reason, probably in our best interest, people and politicians alike have not realized that.

Unless I win the lottery I'll never pay off my loans. I'm in over 500. $5it happens. I was just too ignorant and excited when i got accepted to dental school to care at the time. Prob. pretty common. Life is full of exits (yes thats a rip-off from Rum Diary). I'm taking the first one I find. Wish I was Jason Bourne.....my asss would just vanish. Life is too short. I spent the last 10 yrs in post-high school education and have nothing to show for it but one hell of an experience. Unless you get into a state school or your family is loaded and will foot the bill I would go cut the grass on a local golf course. Do you want to be happy, or do you want to pretend your happy b/c you have a degree on your wall that has "Dr." in front of your name? My degree went straight to the fire place....thats how much it means to me. It's the next big bubble to burst. Boom!

What did the five fingers say to the face?

I think the key is if you decide to go to USC, make sure you don't live like a Dentist. Try and keep your living costs as low as possible. The good news is, you will have the opportunity to make it back. Look into some public health service, maybe IHS, good way to lower the amount to borrow.

Know all of your options: Income based repayment. Public service loan forgiveness. Armed forces. Standard repayment 10 and 25 years. National health service. Graduated repayment. There are lots of options and the options suit different types of people if you don't know your about all of them very well you haven't put enough thought into this process of financing dental school. Learn the options and make a logical decision that suits your life.

lol. I'm not sure if you're a troll or not - most of what you say is reasonable. I just dont understand why you would go through with all of it then act as though you're just walking away from dentistry...

lol @ Jason Borne

Originally Posted by CharlieMurphy32

Unless I win the lottery I'll never pay off my loans. I'm in over 500. $5it happens. I was just too ignorant and excited when i got accepted to dental school to care at the time. Prob. pretty common. Life is full of exits (yes thats a rip-off from Rum Diary). I'm taking the first one I find. Wish I was Jason Bourne.....my asss would just vanish. Life is too short. I spent the last 10 yrs in post-high school education and have nothing to show for it but one hell of an experience. Unless you get into a state school or your family is loaded and will foot the bill I would go cut the grass on a local golf course. Do you want to be happy, or do you want to pretend your happy b/c you have a degree on your wall that has "Dr." in front of your name? My degree went straight to the fire place....thats how much it means to me. It's the next big bubble to burst. Boom!

What did the five fingers say to the face?

Originally Posted by yappy

True. But even hospitalists can earn 250k working a 7 on / 7 off schedule @ 10 hrs per day. That works out to 35hrs per week. Once you factor in health benfits, 401k, and covered mal practice it's hard to say it's such a bad gig. I'm actually struggling with it - being a physician doesnt seem as bad as I once heard in terms of life style. Dentistry is great but when tuition is getting this high it makes one look at the value critically. No ones going to bail us out.

I dunno what hospitals you're referring to but most doctors dont work 35 hours a week.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

It'll catch up to dentists eventually as well. Just saying, the universe balances itself out. Whether it be through hygienists or tuition rises such as this one or dental insurance companies saying, "why the hell are we paying them so much?". Although on the other hand the whole "glamour is inversely proportional to money" thing is definitely true e.g. Podiatrists heavy income.

I though OD's make 80K a year for an additional 4 years of schooling. Dunno if that makes financial sense either.

Originally Posted by wired202808

I though OD's make 80K a year for an additional 4 years of schooling. Dunno if that makes financial sense either.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291041.htm -- 106K

It doesn't make financial sense, you are correct. Again, its a glamour vs. salary thing. But my school is only 18k a year and we will get paid more in the future: http://www.aoa.org/x20898.xml "Of note, no MD specialty will see as much as a two percent increase in 2012."

....kj

Originally Posted by yappy

lol. I'm not sure if you're a troll or not - most of what you say is reasonable. I just dont understand why you would go through with all of it then act as though you're just walking away from dentistry...

lol @ Jason Borne

B/c I was ignorant. We are all ignorant about a lot of stuff in this world. Its that simple.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291041.htm -- 106K

It doesn't make financial sense, you are correct. Again, its a glamour vs. salary thing. But my school is only 18k a year and we will get paid more in the future: http://www.aoa.org/x20898.xml "Of note, no MD specialty will see as much as a two percent increase in 2012."

So 72k for school and you come out making 80k and move up from there? That seems to make financial sense to me

The comparison to MD is a little silly though as a 2% increase in physician's salary would be just slightly more than 20 million

Also I would think that OD would be far more susceptible to corporate take over or government control than dentistry...I'm completely speculating tho

Originally Posted by Sublimazing

Also I would think that OD would be far more susceptible to corporate take over or government control than dentistry...I'm completely speculating tho

Yes, about 25% of our profession is already corporate. Its usually those kids that come out of the $33k a year easy to get into new schools and take out $200k in debt. I personally think it is a bit disgraceful but some people say it is the future of healthcare. Private practice ODs and ophthos hire from the top schools and if you go rural you can do a lot of medical eye care and even be an attending at hospitals. There is really a huge diversity of what you can do in opto such as scalpel surgery in Oklahoma or you can just be a refracting "1 or 2" machine at walmart.

I'm talking about the physician position of Hospitalist. I've read articles and looked at physician recruitement websites that have a shift schedule of 7on 7 off @ 10 hr /day on. Therefore, there work schedule averages out to about 35hrs/wk over the year. Seems like a decent career choice as they're expected to be in greater and greater demand in the future.

It seems that it is a pretty common set up. Check er' out:

http://healthcareers.about.com/od/he...talistProf.htm

MGMA Hospitalist AVG = $225k/yr not including health benfits, retirement, or malpractice.

Originally Posted by wired202808

I dunno what hospitals you're referring to but most doctors dont work 35 hours a week.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

It'll catch up to dentists eventually as well. Just saying, the universe balances itself out. Whether it be through hygienists or tuition rises such as this one or dental insurance companies saying, "why the hell are we paying them so much?". Although on the other hand the whole "glamour is inversely proportional to money" thing is definitely true e.g. Podiatrists heavy income.

That's why the name of the game is to keep debt as low as possible haha. Even if dental insurance companies decide to reimburse even less, dentists can just flat out deny patients that have it. It sucks to be the patient in those shoes but still. Many of the dentists in my town don't take medicare anymore. Only a few take PPOs.

Excellent point. I see this as a huge advantage to dentistry - it is neccesary - yet cheap enough that you can survive without insurance programs.

Originally Posted by a2ndragoon89

That's why the name of the game is to keep debt
as low as possible haha. Even if dental insurance companies decide to reimburse even less, dentists can just flat out deny patients that have it. It sucks to be the patient in those shoes but still. Many of the dentists in my town don't take medicare anymore. Only a few take PPOs.

How is this different than someone buying a 400k house? A house doesn't bring in any income but having a profession does. Basic economic theory says tuition will be raised until future income can no longer support the tuition. If USC with 400k tuition still has a full class, than other schools will follow their lead.

Originally Posted by Coltran

How is this different than someone buying a 400k house? A house doesn't bring in any income but having a profession does. Basic economic theory says tuition will be raised until future income can no longer support the tuition. If USC with 400k tuition still has a full class, than other schools will follow their lead.

Good point.

You can sell, walk away from, or bankrupt out of a home mortage.

Originally Posted by Coltran

How is this different than someone buying a 400k house? A house doesn't bring in any income but having a profession does. Basic economic theory says tuition will be raised until future income can no longer support the tuition. If USC with 400k tuition still has a full class, than other schools will follow their lead.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291041.htm -- 106K

It doesn't make financial sense, you are correct. Again, its a glamour vs. salary thing. But my school is only 18k a year and we will get paid more in the future: http://www.aoa.org/x20898.xml "Of note, no MD specialty will see as much as a two percent increase in 2012."

106 is the average thats not a good number to use because you'll either work in a market that makes more or less than this. And chances are it will probably be less. Even if your school is only 20K a year which makes it 80K for the whole ride, you still give up 4 years which means you lose that 4 years to make $$$$. OD is not the best investment to spend 4 years on. You can go to PA school and only spend 2 years and make over 100K. Plus Dentistry will outearn OD in the long run, you're capped at your 100 to maybe 120K. Meanwhile average starting salaries for dentists are nearly 100 to 120K. Plus the sky is the limit since dentists can own their own offices and will typically earn 200K or more.

I hear a lot of negative things about OD, see the comments above esp with the corporate takeover and such. Its not a bad field, but for 4 years of additional schooling, its not a good field either.

Originally Posted by yappy

I'm talking about the physician position of Hospitalist. I've read articles and looked at physician recruitement websites that have a shift schedule of 7on 7 off @ 10 hr /day on. Therefore, there work schedule averages out to about 35hrs/wk over the year. Seems like a decent career choice as they're expected to be in greater and greater demand in the future.

It seems that it is a pretty common set up. Check er' out:

http://healthcareers.about.com/od/he...talistProf.htm

MGMA Hospitalist AVG = $225k/yr not including health benfits, retirement, or malpractice.

IM is the lowest level on the MD totem pole, they're often miserable and overworked. And an about.com article is the worst kind of "proof" one can offer to make a point. lol provide some real evidence for a 35 hour work week, which is impossible because even if it says 35 hours a week on paper; most MDs work OT in order to do paperwork and catch up on other consults. MD isn't bad if you start it at straight from undergrad, but the older you get the least likely it is to make sense. Esp with obamacare killing reimbursements.

Originally Posted by wired202808

Plus the sky is the limit since dentists can own their own offices and will typically earn 200K or more.

And ODs can't own their own practices? PAs can't. That's the difference. I love learning about vision and eyes and can't see myself doing anything else. Also, ODs have more room to spread their shoulders legislatively in the future (see my signature) while dentistry already owns all of tooth care which is a good thing for now. No MD counter-parts except maybe some small oral surgery competition.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

And ODs can't own their own practices? PAs can't. That's the difference. I love learning about vision and eyes and can't see myself doing anything else. Also, ODs have more room to spread their shoulders legislatively in the future (see my signature) while dentistry already owns all of tooth care which is a good thing for now. No MD counter-parts except maybe some small oral surgery competition.

OD is good but they'll never out earn dentists. The only ODs that earn 200K are the ones that aren't doing some legal. Even with their own offices the overhead, low medicaid payout, and other fees eat away at the profit.

Plus you haven't addressed how corporate stores like Lens Crafters, Wal-Mart, etc are eating away at the OD profession. I hear ODs complaining all the time about the lack of good solid jobs. Where they dont see 40 patients a day in order to make 80K.

PAs will save the additional 2 years of schooling + loans since PA programs are cheaper and they can work more jobs in various hospitals to really earn a high paying $$$$. My PA buddy from CT earns 100K for 3 days worth of work. He then picks up another 1.5 or 2 days at a clinic and earns nearly 150K, he's never on call and he's pretty much on the level of an MD (at least in the eyes of his patients, obv not the entire medical community.)

Its a fact that on the East Coast, PAs and DMDs out earn ODs. http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=optometrist&l1=nyc vs. http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=phys...sistant&l1=nyc vs. http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=general+dentist&l1=nyc

wired, your arguments always make financial sense, but sometimes people go into different fields for different reasons. I think income is important to a certain extent. people that live within their means will probably still end up just as happy as people making far beyond them. my lab job right now pays me 33K salary a year. It's pretty crappy but I can enjoy my life. I think the main goal is getting out of debt, having enough for car, house, insurance payments, and other things, and still being able to save up for a rainy day. I think ODs that get into corrective eye surgery make bank. not sure how much though, but i'll probably get my eyes done when i have the money. I do agree that the OD profession becomes scary to think about when it comes to the big box optometry offices that undercharge their private practice competitors.

Originally Posted by a2ndragoon89

wired, your arguments always make financial sense, but sometimes people go into different fields for different reasons. I think income is important to a certain extent. people that live within their means will probably still end up just as happy as people making far beyond them. my lab job right now pays me 33K salary a year. It's pretty crappy but I can enjoy my life. I think the main goal is getting out of debt, having enough for car, house, insurance payments, and other things, and still being able to save up for a rainy day. I think ODs that get into corrective eye surgery make bank. not sure how much though, but i'll probably get my eyes done when i have the money. I do agree that the OD profession becomes scary to think about when it comes to the big box optometry offices that undercharge their private practice competitors.

True but we're just talking about pure $$$ and #'s. The "love" of a field whether its dentistry, baking, OD, or others is something one cannot measure quantitatively.

Before dentistry, I was interested in OD but it didnt make full financial sense to pursue. At least not for me.

Originally Posted by wired202808

Plus you haven't addressed how corporate stores like Lens Crafters, Wal-Mart, etc are eating away at the OD profession. I hear ODs complaining all the time about the lack of good solid jobs. Where they dont see 40 patients a day in order to make 80K.

Its a fact that on the East Coast, PAs and DMDs out earn ODs. http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=optometrist&l1=nyc vs. http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=phys...sistant&l1=nyc vs. http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=general+dentist&l1=nyc

Actually I have addressed it:

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Yes, about 25% of our profession is already corporate. Its usually those kids that come out of the $33k a year easy to get into new schools and take out $200k in debt. I personally think it is a bit disgraceful but some people say it is the future of healthcare..... such as scalpel surgery in Oklahoma or you can just be a refracting "1 or 2" machine at walmart.

I don't know why you are re-iterating my points about ODs not earning as much as Dentists and becoming commercially influenced because I agree with you and basically stated that much further up lol. You either didn't read the entire thread or you just like stating $$$ differences to make yourself feel better.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291041.htm -- 106K

It doesn't make financial sense, you are correct. Again, its a glamour vs. salary thing.

Also, I wouldn't use indeed.com as a salary tool because I know the average for NYC is $450-$500 a day for an OD. They probably group opticians in there because they are too dumb to know the difference that is why it is so low. I'd use an impartial government website instead. In any case I do not plan to practice in NYC the taxes here suck balls and so do the opto laws:
https://www.aoa.org/Images/oral.gif
https://www.aoa.org/Images/glaucoma.gif
https://www.aoa.org/Images/Controlled-Substance.gif
https://www.aoa.org/Images/Injectables-12-2011.gif

I happen to know an established OD who has two practices and a few associates that work at their practices. They seem to be doing very well. They actually work within a Lens Crafters; though, the optometry practice is seperate from the glasses store front. This is in a medium city. I would bet that their situation is as good as many dentists. It seems that if someone really wanted to be an OD and was hard working they could do quite well.

I would much rather be an OD than a PA. But that's because I'm the type that has got to be the boss. I could never sign up for a terminal education program that is built around the idea I will always be someones right hand man.

Okay, working for NASA on a shuttle mission would be an exception.

Originally Posted by yappy

Okay, working for NASA on a shuttle mission would be an exception.

Haha, very true!

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Also, I wouldn't use indeed.com as a salary tool because I know the average for NYC is $450-$500 a day for an OD. They probably group opticians in there because they are too dumb to know the difference that is why it is so low. I'd use an impartial government website instead. In any case I do not plan to practice in NYC the taxes here suck balls and so do the opto laws:
https://www.aoa.org/Images/oral.gif
https://www.aoa.org/Images/glaucoma.gif
https://www.aoa.org/Images/Controlled-Substance.gif
https://www.aoa.org/Images/Injectables-12-2011.gif

lol I like that part! Hey to each his own, I dont need to make myself feel better. I know anesthesiologists will out earn most professions. And i'm fine with that, but the difference between OD and DDS is in the pudding when it comes to $$$. That's all I was saying. PS I trust indeed.com which lists real jobs and real salaries vs. people's "gut" feelings. 500 a day for an OD? thats 130K in NYC. That's impossible unless you're doing something unethical or illegal when you bill your patients insurance.

And again I dont understand the point of the pictures above, what are they trying to prove that you can do a lot of procedures even thought you're not really an eye doctor that has an MD degree?

Originally Posted by wired202808

And again I dont understand the point of the pictures above, what are they trying to prove that you can do a lot of procedures even thought you're not really an eye doctor that has an MD degree?

Ya, I'll be a fake doctor. Getting fake reimbursements from Medicare, diagnosing fake diseases and prescribing fake medications