How would you run a clinic?

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Originally Posted by sumstorm

Personally, I would be concerned that at some point I am asking my tech to practice vet med under my licence and liability. What if a tech or receptionist convinced a client, upon checkout, to buy heartguard for their pet instead of using the script I just gave them, not realizing that the Collie mix will be in danger? It won't be my receptionist or tech in front of the board or in the court.

Seem more like an argument for training and hiring experienced techs than one against commission.

Because, as folks are pointing out, money motivates. At least the practices I have worked at have been very, very busy. I'm not saying it would happen frequently or intentionally. I'm saying one screw up like that would be too many. Yes, theoreticly there are lots of ways to catch it, but adding $$$ pressure to a tech that is already busy with lots of tasks....it does have the potential to get sloppy. This is one of the challenges that happens in factory work as well; when quota bonuses are offered for maximum production, folks start making short cuts to generate more product. There needs to be a balance between increasing production and ensuring safety. For some folks, that might be commission, for others it is bonuses, for others it is the expectation to do their jobs.

I actually have a bonus plan drawn up for my some day theoretical clinic (along with child care). I also noted the situations (on page 1) where I would happily pay a tech more for going above and beyond their job. I also have plans drawn up for insuring that staff stays busy during lulls in work (based on reading vet econ.) I feel the things being described here are doing their job. They are being paid to come in and put their energy into working with our patients and our clients. I personally would rather have a tech that likes pets but loves educating people than one that loves pets but only likes people. Often I meet techs that barely tolerate people, and I see that as a problem if they are going to interact with clients at all. Our bonus system will spell out how bonuses are obtained, and who gets what portions of the bonuses. To me, the tech needs to be loyal to the entire clinic, to our brand, not just to their own pocket book. That means getting the basics done and contributing above and beyond the job.

Originally Posted by StartingoverVet

I think you need to study economics a little more.

Money is a motivator to do things that people don't normally do, and lots of people feel uncomfortable "pushing" services, even if they are in the best interests of the animal. Money is the push to do it even if you are shy, or weird about money etc.

As far as fighting, that is what management is for, to manage those feelings. More revenue is a winner for the clinic as a whole, management needs to make sure that everyone feels a rewarded in some way as part of the team, even if they aren't the ones getting the commission.

[/end business lecture]

I admit, I have no experience running a business and have never taken a business course. Everything that I said is based purely on my personal experience and I have never worked somewhere that offered commissions. I'm not saying that money isn't a motivating factor, I'm saying that I think that it would be too motivating, to the point that some people would get pushy and make clients feel uncomfortable.

And my personal experience is that management is rarely aware of what is going on at a personal level with their employees. As in, several people could be bickering over who gets to do what and no one in management has any clue unless someone comes to them (which has rarely happened in places I've worked).

I agree that everyone should feel that they're being rewarded when the clinic makes more revenue, my comments were more in regards to rewarding individuals for pushing x number of heartworm preventatives or whatever. I'm pretty sure someone already mentioned this, but I think giving everyone a bonus if the clinic increases sales by a certain amount would be a good incentive program. The place where I worked previously did keep track of the percentage of clients who got fecals, dentals, routine bloodwork, etc. and they had goals for what percentage they wanted for each of those categories. But we didn't get bonuses or anything if we did meet or exceed those percentages. A system where everyone got a bonus if a production goal was met or exceeded sounds good to me, but, again, I have no business experience so I'm basing this 100% off of my personal experience :/

Originally Posted by libster06

I will just say that I feel the same way in regards to tipping Sonic drive-in employees. BEFORE ANYONE GOES ROGUE ON ME, my best friend was the manager there. She was paid relatively $2 more than my $8.50/hr wage and her employees were paid +/- within $0.50 wage as I was working as a kennel assistant for a corporate vet. Yet, one day my employer at the clinic said he didn't understand "our generation's" issue with not tipping Sonic employees (there was one located right next door to the clinic)....... and I just simply told him that they aren't exactly waitresses making pennies an hour, and that they make the same money that I do, yet no one tipped me for picking up poop or helping them with heavy food bags to their car, and I certainly didn't expect it because it was part of my job and why I was hired. That's kind of how I feel about the whole compensation thing.

Not in any way disrespecting or insulting my wages, because I was perfectly happy with the amount I was getting paid, and I did my job regardless, because it was my job. I didn't slack off because I wasn't getting paid extra to do things. I just tried put in perspective that the employees "waitressing" or bringing you food to your car is part of the business model of the company and is also the reason they are paid higher wages than waiters and waitresses, who aren't guaranteed compensation for their services outside of tips.

What??! People actually tip fast food window employees? For passing a bag of food to the customer? Have we gone mad??

Originally Posted by sumstorm

Because, as folks are pointing out, money motivates. At least the practices I have worked at have been very, very busy. I'm not saying it would happen frequently or intentionally. I'm saying one screw up like that would be too many. Yes, theoreticly there are lots of ways to catch it, but adding $$$ pressure to a tech that is already busy with lots of tasks....it does have the potential to get how bonuses are obtained, and who gets what portions of the bonuses. To me, the tech needs to be loyal to the entire clinic, to our brand, not just to their own pocket book. That means getting the basics done and contributing above and beyond the job.

I feel like if your clinic is that busy and the techs are getting sloppy because of too buch business, you need to expand your clinic and hire more staff.

And techs are not in it for the money... But when they can't support there families on the skimpy salary provided with no room to make more... Is when techs start quiting.

People say money won't make you happy. But if you are financially insecure you are setting your self up to be unhappy. Unhappy techs is bad for business. If vet clinics just don't have it in the budget to increase base salary then the next best thing is commission or bonuses off how much money the grossed. That way you won't mind giving them a chunk of the profit, if you are also increasing your profit.

The main point i want to make is unhappiness of staff. I just feel like there needs to be a way to increase there job satisfaction, and the number one complaint from all the techs I work with is not making enough money to get by. You may have a different experience, but most techs i work with live paycheck to paycheck. And the ones that don't rely on there significant other or spouces salary.

Originally Posted by bayarea15

Yes the nail trims are $26.50, I said $27 cause its the same by the time you're done adding up everything that got added on.

Tipping the drive-thru dood! $27 nail trims!!! The world has passed me by.

Originally Posted by Golden10

I just feel like there needs to be a way to increase there job satisfaction, and the number one complaint from all the techs I work with is not making enough money to get by.

Number one complaint I hear from EVERYONE is that they don't make enough money to get by. Unless you think that all veterinarians are stingy shylocks or something, or sandbagging wages so they can upgrade their Mercedes to the next model, sounds like you are just stating the obvious. Veterinary technician is not a lucrative job. It can be very fulfilling for folks that want to work in the animal health and medicine industry, but the going rate for tech wages is set by the market. The average licensed vet makes about $33K in this country. Is that not reasonable? Lots of jobs that require additional years of schooling pay just above this level. You average elementary or high school teacher makes around $40K. Police officers make an average of $45K and firefighters a few thousand more. And they risk their lives everyday. A tech can make substantially more in a lab animal facility if that is their top criteria for employment. I think we need to divert this discussion to veterinary practice cleaning staff. They are the aseptic heroes. They keep the machine running. And most of them I imagine are working for under 10 bucks an hour with no benefits!!! Someone must speak up for the little guy. Besides, Evelyn makes the best chicken enchiladas for everyone at work. Makes my working for free seem much more bearable.

Actually, it's not obvious to a lot of people. Becoming a business person is not usually what people think about when becoming a veterinarian. There is little training in vet school, so all your business knowlege you have to get elsewhere.

Many vets just don't think about what ways they can work to improve there business. They are focused more on patient care.

Originally Posted by sumstorm

Because, as folks are pointing out, money motivates. At least the practices I have worked at have been very, very busy. I'm not saying it would happen frequently or intentionally. I'm saying one screw up like that would be too many. Yes, theoreticly there are lots of ways to catch it, but adding $$$ pressure to a tech that is already busy with lots of tasks....it does have the potential to get sloppy. This is one of the challenges that happens in factory work as well; when quota bonuses are offered for maximum production, folks start making short cuts to generate more product. There needs to be a balance between increasing production and ensuring safety. For some folks, that might be commission, for others it is bonuses, for others it is the expectation to do their jobs.

I think that's a pretty valid concern.

But it seems like something that could be mediated by offering small percentage commissions (such as not to be a make-or-break financial factor), or bulking the sales into a yearly number that factors into bonuses.

More as a method of removing the emphasis from a single sale, and instead pointing the employee toward a trend of increased sales.

That said, I work in a practice that offers absolutely no commission on anything. We're paid above the standard, which generally translates into a desire to help create increased revenue for the good of the business. But, if I were pulling the strings, I think I would offer incentives to employees for moving financially essential products. It's useful to keep folks closely aware of how their day to day work affects day to day profits.

Originally Posted by Golden10

Actually, it's not obvious to a lot of people. Becoming a business person is not usually what people think about when becoming a veterinarian. There is little training in vet school, so all your business knowlege you have to get elsewhere.

Many vets just don't think about what ways they can work to improve there business. They are focused more on patient care.

I'm equally excited about the business and the medical aspect of the job.

It seems like you would have to be excited about marketing your services if you wanted to be successful, especially in this economy... as pet spending is treated more and more like an optional expense.

Originally Posted by Golden10

Actually, it's not obvious to a lot of people. Becoming a business person is not usually what people think about when becoming a veterinarian. There is little training in vet school, so all your business knowlege you have to get elsewhere.

Many vets just don't think about what ways they can work to improve there business. They are focused more on patient care.

I am currently enrolled in a small business entrepreneurship class that I wanted to complete before heading up to vet school in the fall. I have heard from other vet students that their schools offer very little instruction on successfully running a business within their DVM curriculum. Maybe a single class and some elective seminars that nobody seems to attend. Personally, I am extremely interested in the business aspect of veterinary medicine and learning about the various models and ideas that one can apply to their practice. I really don't see how you can separate the business from the medicine itself.

Originally Posted by August West

I really don't see how you can separate the business from the medicine itself.

I never implied you could.

Originally Posted by Golden10

I never implied you could.

No need to be so quick on the defensive. Sometimes I am merely agreeing with you.

Cheers!!

Originally Posted by August West

I am currently enrolled in a small business entrepreneurship class that I wanted to complete before heading up to vet school in the fall. I have heard from other vet students that their schools offer very little instruction on successfully running a business within their DVM curriculum. Maybe a single class and some elective seminars that nobody seems to attend. Personally, I am extremely interested in the business aspect of veterinary medicine and learning about the various models and ideas that one can apply to their practice. I really don't see how you can separate the business from the medicine itself.

I could be wrong but I thought most of the schools have "clubs" that usually include one about the business side of things. Maybe it's just the vet schools I visited personally??

I mean for people like me who are very interested in owning our own practices one day, I agree that it's not sufficient, but it's something at least.

Originally Posted by August West

No need to be so quick on the defensive. Sometimes I am merely agreeing with you.

Cheers!!

Oops. Guess I really didn't know what point you were trying to get with saying that.To me THAT statement seemed obvious Your posts generally seem to have the argumentative tone to them but that just may be how I was reading them!

Originally Posted by Emiloo4

I could be wrong but I thought most of the schools have "clubs" that usually include one about the business side of things. Maybe it's just the vet schools I visited personally??

I mean for people like me who are very interested in owning our own practices one day, I agree that it's not sufficient, but it's something at least.

Yes, there is a national vet business club. They can only scratch the surface though with what running a business will actually be like. If you are really interested you should take some online courses in small business management.

Originally Posted by August West

Number one complaint I hear from EVERYONE is that they don't make enough money to get by. Unless you think that all veterinarians are stingy shylocks or something, or sandbagging wages so they can upgrade their Mercedes to the next model, sounds like you are just stating the obvious. Veterinary technician is not a lucrative job. It can be very fulfilling for folks that want to work in the animal health and medicine industry, but the going rate for tech wages is set by the market. The average licensed vet makes about $33K in this country. Is that not reasonable? Lots of jobs that require additional years of schooling pay just above this level. You average elementary or high school teacher makes around $40K. Police officers make an average of $45K and firefighters a few thousand more. And they risk their lives everyday. A tech can make substantially more in a lab animal facility if that is their top criteria for employment. I think we need to divert this discussion to veterinary practice cleaning staff. They are the aseptic heroes. They keep the machine running. And most of them I imagine are working for under 10 bucks an hour with no benefits!!! Someone must speak up for the little guy. Besides, Evelyn makes the best chicken enchiladas for everyone at work. Makes my working for free seem much more bearable.

The cops where I live make 80k, firemen 100k++ and teachers start at 34k, and can go all the way up to like 70k if they teach forever.

The little practice I work at made 2.4 million, granted before paying out the bills. But I do think employees should be given some sort of bonus for goals met.

Prior to the animal world, I have worked in hospice and dialysis. As a dialysis technician, my co workers and I all got bonuses once a month when labs came back if they were good.

Did that make us pushy techs? Sometimes. Some people yelled at their patients who would come in over 3-8kg. Me, no, I said hey you know what you're doing, and you're trying. If they were having a rough time, I would speak to the social worker and psychologist on staff for them, get them support asap.

So I think it might depend on personality to not be pushy.

I also tip the sonic folks $1 or $2

Sent from my PC36100 using SDN Mobile

Originally Posted by Golden10

I can almost guarantee there costs are higher. But here is the real question with the x ray machine. Does your vet clinic need the best, latest, greatest digital x ray machine that just came out.... I would say no. If you really need a new x ray machine look into used ones from hospitals. Or buy one that is maybe not the newest model and tens of thousands of dollars cheaper. Practice B has an older version of a digital X ray. Works great.

If you are asking me my opinion about which clinic is better I would say B. We practice more medicine plain and simple. My opinion on why I think they have poor business practices stem from several things.
* High turn over
* unhappy staff
* paying way more then they need to on equipment
* providing the same services as next door but charging twice as much

Plain and simple, I love the vet there, he is a nice person... but he has no idea how to run a business.

i think you and i are just going to have to agree to disagree. it's really not fair for you to make claims how this vet has "no idea how to run a business" when you are just providing an outsider's perspective. how do you know he paid "way more" than he needed to on equipment? what is your personal cutoff between what's acceptable to pay for something like a digital xray machine? for all you know his cost analysis for a new machine vs a used/older machine still had the new machine come out the winner- maybe there are no used machines available, maybe they're not priced competitively, maybe he's planning on selling this one down the line or keeping it for the next 20-30 years. you just don't know! just because he has higher costs and fees than your practice doesn't make him a worse clinic. he could potentially make the same argument for your practice by saying because you're cheaper you must be cutting corners and practicing bad medicine, no?

i also don't understand when you say "we practice more medicine" so that makes you better....what is "more" medicine? you do more dental procedures? you offer more services than his clinic does? more doctors/staff?

i think the reason people are having trouble seeing your arguments is that you are very black and white, basically saying "B is better than A because i said so". it's basically just a matter of opinion- to you his practice is costly, overspending, etc etc but honestly you don't know what his costs or profits are so unless you are the actual clinic owner or their accountant you really cannot make these claims. it's all just coming down to opinion, and i know personally i would probably say that my clinic is better than your clinic partially because i work there and i'm partial to them....so perhaps a bit of bias is working its way in there as well?

Originally Posted by Golden10

Your posts generally seem to have the argumentative tone to them but that just may be how I was reading them!

The word you're looking for is:

Originally Posted by Dsmoody23

I'm equally excited about the business and the medical aspect of the job.

It seems like you would have to be excited about marketing your services if you wanted to be successful, especially in this economy... as pet spending is treated more and more like an optional expense.

Not necessarily. That side of things isn't something that interests me. I recognize the importance of it, though, which is why one of my requirements for a practice partner would be someone who really thrives on the business side of things. I would do what I "have" to do, but I'd rather partner with someone who actually enjoys that part of it.

Originally Posted by squeegee

i think you and i are just going to have to agree to disagree. it's really not fair for you to make claims how this vet has "no idea how to run a business" when you are just providing an outsider's perspective. how do you know he paid "way more" than he needed to on equipment? what is your personal cutoff between what's acceptable to pay for something like a digital xray machine? for all you know his cost analysis for a new machine vs a used/older machine still had the new machine come out the winner- maybe there are no used machines available, maybe they're not priced competitively, maybe he's planning on selling this one down the line or keeping it for the next 20-30 years. you just don't know! just because he has higher costs and fees than your practice doesn't make him a worse clinic. he could potentially make the same argument for your practice by saying because you're cheaper you must be cutting corners and practicing bad medicine, no?

i also don't understand when you say "we practice more medicine" so that makes you better....what is "more" medicine? you do more dental procedures? you offer more services than his clinic does? more doctors/staff?

i think the reason people are having trouble seeing your arguments is that you are very black and white, basically saying "B is better than A because i said so". it's basically just a matter of opinion- to you his practice is costly, overspending, etc etc but honestly you don't know what his costs or profits are so unless you are the actual clinic owner or their accountant you really cannot make these claims. it's all just coming down to opinion, and i know personally i would probably say that my clinic is better than your clinic partially because i work there and i'm partial to them....so perhaps a bit of bias is working its way in there as well?

You should read what I wrote back to lostbunny about "black and white". I respect that you don't agree with me, but its important to me to offer affordable prices to clients. I personally don't want to out price medical care. Like someone said before with her 27$ nail trims. Do you think that is a fair price for a nail trim? I don't think that 500$ is a fair price for a routine dental. But that is just me. I am poor and very money conscious. My dog has to have dentals every 6 months. My clinic wont give me a decent discount so the clinic (A) lets me use his drugs/equipment for 125$ a dental as long as I do the work myself. He is a family friend so I think my mom talked to him.

What I mean by "we practice more medicine" is that we practice more medicine in terms of number of clients.

If you honestly just can't believe that I know about these clinic then that's fine. But there family is about to file for bankruptcy.

So before you say "oh no that could never happen" just remember that you may have the best vet in the world but he may be the worst businessmen. If you can't have a balance then you won't have a successful practice.

And not every vet buys/ partners in a practice. So if you are not interested in the business side there are plenty of opportunities to not be a part of it. You have the ability to choose what kind of clinic you want to work at and if you do want to own a clinic then no one is going to stop you from paying baseline salaries with no incentives.

Most vet clinics do not give incentives. Some do. This is done in practice whether you agree with it or not. These are just different business models and all I want to know is if one more successful then the other. From what I can tell it seems to be the incentive program is more successful. I don't know your situation or what the clients in your area are looking for but in my area good techs are quitting the profession and clinic prices are reaching the point where the majority of people can't afford to care for there pets. Just looking for a solution to the problem.

DSM, I might vomit if I have to see another Guy photo in this thread.

Originally Posted by Golden10

You should read what I wrote back to lostbunny about "black and white". I respect that you don't agree with me, but its important to me to offer affordable prices to clients. I personally don't want to out price medical care. Like someone said before with her 27$ nail trims. Do you think that is a fair price for a nail trim? I don't think that 500$ is a fair price for a routine dental. But that is just me. I am poor and very money conscious. My dog has to have dentals every 6 months. My clinic wont give me a decent discount so the clinic (A) lets me use his drugs/equipment for 125$ a dental as long as I do the work myself. He is a family friend so I think my mom talked to him.

What I mean by "we practice more medicine" is that we practice more medicine in terms of number of clients.

If you honestly just can't believe that I know about these clinic then that's fine. But there family is about to file for bankruptcy.

So before you say "oh no that could never happen" just remember that you may have the best vet in the world but he may be the worst businessmen. If you can't have a balance then you won't have a successful practice.

And not every vet buys/ partners in a practice. So if you are not interested in the business side there are plenty of opportunities to not be a part of it. You have the ability to choose what kind of clinic you want to work at and if you do want to own a clinic then no one is going to stop you from paying baseline salaries with no incentives.

Most vet clinics do not give incentives. Some do. This is done in practice whether you agree with it or not. These are just different business models and all I want to know is if one more successful then the other. From what I can tell it seems to be the incentive program is more successful. I don't know your situation or what the clients in your area are looking for but in my area good techs are quitting the profession and clinic prices are reaching the point where the majority of people can't afford to care for there pets. Just looking for a solution to the problem.

i did see what you wrote to lostbunny, which was basically that in your area it's a money thing. ok, fine. but again, it's a difference of opinion. you are asking about different practice models and what people would do in their ideal clinic, which is exactly why you can't be so black and white about it. everyone's going to have a different opinion about everything and while people here are voicing them you seem to keep going with this "no that's wrong, money is important and A overcharges". i get it, but again that's just your opinion.

i did not say "oh no that could never happen", at all. i am merely saying that everything you are writing about this vet is just speculation. yes, you hung around at the practice growing up, yes you've seen their dental equipment, yes you say he's going bankrupt. but you don't know about their business model. for all you know he's going bankrupt because he has astronomical undergraduate loans. or he's a gambler. or he's been spending beyond his means. again it is my opinion that you cannot make claims about this guy's business model because you don't know anything about it. i am not defending him by saying "oh no he must be a great guy" which is perhaps where you're mistaken, i am merely saying that unless you are in his shoes any speculating you do about his finances is just that: speculation. and if you think he's a poor businessman then i suppose one benefit is clearly you know exactly what you would do and not do when you get out and own a practice. if affordability to your clients is important to you, then you can take steps to ensure that you make that a priority when formulating your business model in the future.

i am also quite interested in the business side, and am actually coming off a very intense course in practice management, so i can talk all about prices, and costs, and overhead, and how price is only an issue in the absence of value. so i don't have issue with it if that's what you think, and i'm not sure why you're saying things that imply i'm fighting against you about things like incentives (which i have never mentioned in any of my posts). all i'm saying is that you should listen to your own advice you gave lostbunny and go into things with an open mind because there are way more factors that go into running a successful practice than what you might think. you can't just lower costs for procedures without compensating for it somewhere else, and maybe this guy just can't do that.

So the only thing you are disagreeing with me on is my opinion on a vet clinic?

Well shoot if that were the case then I would just agree with you and move on! You cant possible know everything about every detail of the world. You can only speculate. And I agree with you on that point.

It just made it seem like because you didn't agree with the example you didn't agree with the overall incentive program, but I guess that's not the case. I just didn't see why you were getting so upset over a general business plan!

Originally Posted by breenie

DSM, I might vomit if I have to see another Guy photo in this thread.

Originally Posted by Dsmoody23

You totally set yourself up for that one, Breenie. I was literally waiting for Dsmoody's name to pop up to see which picture was posted next

Originally Posted by Emiloo4

You totally set yourself up for that one, Breenie. I was literally waiting for Dsmoody's name to pop up to see which picture was posted next

Man... There was a picture of him at the beach, sans shirt.

Y'all better be real nice to me or I'm putting that up.

Originally Posted by Golden10

So the only thing you are disagreeing with me on is my opinion on a vet clinic?

Well shoot if that were the case then I would just agree with you and move on! You cant possible know everything about every detail of the world. You can only speculate. And I agree with you on that point.

It just made it seem like because you didn't agree with the example you didn't agree with the overall incentive program, but I guess that's not the case. I just didn't see why you were getting so upset over a general business plan!

well you never actually mentioned incentives at all with the A vs B debate, just that A cost a lot more than B and was therefore bad business- so that's what i was replying to. and thanks but "getting so upset"......not so much.

if it makes you feel better, i also disagree with you about paying employees incentives but that's a debate i'd rather not get into at this time

Originally Posted by squeegee

well you never actually mentioned incentives at all with the A vs B debate, just that A cost a lot more than B and was therefore bad business- so that's what i was replying to. and thanks but "getting so upset"......not so much.

Just a simple misunderstanding. Easily solved.

Originally Posted by squeegee

i am also quite interested in the business side, and am actually coming off a very intense course in practice management, so i can talk all about prices, and costs, and overhead, and how price is only an issue in the absence of value.

Just wondering, since you just got out of a practice management course, how would you run your business? Say in a city with all types of people and competition from other vet clinics in the area?

When I see "man photo", I think this:

Originally Posted by Golden10

You should read what I wrote back to lostbunny about "black and white". I respect that you don't agree with me, but its important to me to offer affordable prices to clients. I personally don't want to out price medical care. Like someone said before with her 27$ nail trims. Do you think that is a fair price for a nail trim? I don't think that 500$ is a fair price for a routine dental. But that is just me. I am poor and very money conscious. My dog has to have dentals every 6 months. My clinic wont give me a decent discount so the clinic (A) lets me use his drugs/equipment for 125$ a dental as long as I do the work myself. He is a family friend so I think my mom talked to him.

I think employee discount is something pretty important in terms of happy employees. I get paid a little more than $2/hr. more than minimum wage (which, considering I had no veterinary experience prior to this job, is totally understandable, and honestly, quite nice considering what it could be). However, our discount for full time employees is very nice: half off services (though the vets will comp the exam fee) and cost+10% (I think) for actual things. My rabbit's neuter came out to less than half what it would have been without my discount.
There are so many other things that make me really happy where I am (and I think in general our techs are happy techs), but this is one of those little bonus things that I appreciate (and that I know the owner doesn't have to do).

Originally Posted by kakurubird

I think employee discount is something pretty important in terms of happy employees.

I agree , that actually kept me happy at one of my jobs for a long time. That was a huge incentive for me!

Ugh. Revolting.

Originally Posted by Golden10

Just wondering, since you just got out of a practice management course, how would you run your business? Say in a city with all types of people and competition from other vet clinics in the area?

that's kind of a vague question, do you have something more specific you're thinking of? running a practice has a bajillion different aspects to it

Originally Posted by squeegee

that's kind of a vague question, do you have something more specific you're thinking of? running a practice has a bajillion different aspects to it

Just basic over all business plan.. How would you market your business to stand out against the competition? How would you pay your employees and price your products compared to the average for your area? Like, would you set your prices the same as everyone else? If you did set your prices as average how would you set your business apart from your neighbors?

Originally Posted by Golden10

Just basic over all business plan.. How would you market your business to stand out against the competition? How would you pay your employees and price your products compared to the average for your area? Like, would you set your prices the same as everyone else? If you did set your prices as average how would you set your business apart from your neighbors?

honestly there are way too many variables to even attempt to lay out (what i would do) as a business plan. where are you located, how many vets are near you, how far away are they, how many (potential) clients are living in proximity to your own clinic, what services do they offer compared to you, are you starting a clinic from scratch or do you have an established client base already, what are the overhead operating costs of the clinic (will influence how you have to set your prices)....there are too many things to take into account before i can even think of what my business plan would be. i'm also not an MBA student or anything so i wouldn't take my thoughts too seriously.

Originally Posted by squeegee

honestly there are way too many variables to even attempt to lay out (what i would do) as a business plan. where are you located, how many vets are near you, how far away are they, how many (potential) clients are living in proximity to your own clinic, what services do they offer compared to you, are you starting a clinic from scratch or do you have an established client base already, what are the overhead operating costs of the clinic (will influence how you have to set your prices)....there are too many things to take into account before i can even think of what my business plan would be. i'm also not an MBA student or anything so i wouldn't take my thoughts too seriously.

Oh ok lol.

Originally Posted by Dsmoody23

The word you're looking for is:

You really are quite smitten with me, huh?

Originally Posted by August West

You really are quite smitten with me, huh?

Wait. I'm sorry. Did you just put the word "smitten" near Guy's photo?

UGHHH WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE. That man is possibly the most obnoxious creature on the planet.

Originally Posted by breenie

UGHHH WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE. That man is possibly the most obnoxious creature on the planet.

I realize this will sabotage any chance possibility of us ever being friends in real life, but I like him.... I think he's funny. He dresses like a douche, and I'm not sure why he chose such a stupid character outfit/look... but I have to admit that for some reason, I am a fan

Originally Posted by August West

You really are quite smitten with me, huh?

Originally Posted by libster06

I realize this will sabotage any chance possibility of us ever being friends in real life, but I like him.... I think he's funny. He dresses like a douche, and I'm not sure why he chose such a stupid character outfit/look... but I have to admit that for some reason, I am a fan

I can overlook it as long as we don't have to watch his shows together.

Originally Posted by Dsmoody23

Now I'm smitten.

I hate his hair and I hate his face and I hate his gross food. Thank jesus his show was dropped. He does not understand why.... lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaRXwBnov-s

Finally, this thread has direction.

I need a mason jar. Stat.

Originally Posted by lostbunny

Maybe you should apply to be his office manager because you seem to know so much about running a vet clinic, I'm sure he'd be more then happy to hire you.

Originally Posted by Golden10

Money is probably the number one issue where I live.

Getting people to pay the bill is always the number one issue of any vet clinic anywhere in the western world. guaranteed

Originally Posted by Golden10

I don't think that 500$ is a fair price for a routine dental.

Why don't you think $500 is a fair price for a "routine" dental?
A good routine dental should include (based on numerous discussions on VIN)

• Preanaesthetic bloods (as most dental patients are older) including, CBC, PCV/TP, electrolytes, basic biochem
• Predental x-rays to determine the extent of dental disease - vets are increasingly realising that this is an extremely important step in treating dental disease!
• Full PE
• Premedication with a suitable modern sedative and good analgesia (as extractions and dentals are painful!)
• Induction with a modern, safe agent (no xylazine for the doggies/kitties please!) with maintenence on a safe inhalation agent via an endotracheal tube
• Peri-operative analgesia including nerve blocks if doing extensive extractions
• IV fluids during anaesthesia
• Anaesthetic monitoring from a suffienciently trained person, including (hopefully) pulse ox, ECG, BP, temp, capnography would be nice...
• Another highly trained person performing the procedure of examination of the entire oral cavity, extractions as nessercerry from exam and xrays, scale and polish
• Adequate recovery in a controlled environment under immediate supervision.
• Discharge appointment home, with antibiotics and analgesia as nessercerry, and a series of follow up appts - one in 2 wks time if extractions, and then 1 in 12 months time to recheck the teeth (with a nurse) and dental care advice.

How is that NOT worth $500?!?!?!?!?! How is that NOT worth more?!?!!?!?!?! And if your lovely "B" vet is doing all this for $250, he's losing money. If he's not doing all this, or even offering it, he is not offering his patients top-notch medicine, (regardless of whether or not they would accept it).

At vet school, we are always told to offer the best option first. No matter what the cost of that is - that is up to the owner to decide, not for you to judge first. You do this because it is the BEST OPTION. That is your job, to offer the best option, and to hopefully convice them to take it, as it is the BEST option and you are an advocate for their pet.

The problem I have with using lower routine costs as a business plan is
a) In general this does NOT work. regardless of what you've seen in ONE case
b) it encourages price shopping, which is NEVER a good thing.
c) we should be educating people about how the money we ask for is WORTH IT, not cutting our costs. We should be aiming to charge what we DESERVE for our services. if we charge ridiculously small amounts for our routine things, it gives the idea to clients that that is all we DESERVE, when we actually deserve so much more. Also, it can cause difficulties when something non-routine pops up, the prices are hugely more and they don't understand the discrepencies. We should be educating clients on how much our services are actually worth and this is where a good tech comes in - people get all up in arms about paying $500 for someone to "clean their dogs teeth". But if you have an awesome tech that can communicate well, they can explain everything ive outlined above and then every reasonable person says yes! (they really do, ive seen it/done it lol).

Lastly, in genuinely made me laugh that in the same post you said that you think vets should drop their charges and pay their techs more. Um, what?!

Originally Posted by Golden10

The main point i want to make is unhappiness of staff. I just feel like there needs to be a way to increase there job satisfaction, and the number one complaint from all the techs I work with is not making enough money to get by. You may have a different experience, but most techs i work with live paycheck to paycheck. And the ones that don't rely on there significant other or spouces salary.

Increasing job satisfaction involves far more than just $$$. Empowerment, investment, training, discounts, ability to grow/learn/develop, etc. There are really great studies out on this, have you read veterinary economics? There's another magazine written for techs with great suggestions on how they can take an active role in increasing their income. I agree that techs need to be paid reasonably for the work they are doing, I even, as I have now stated 3 times, believe in incentive programs when the contributions of the techs are beyond the jobs they are being paid to do and/or generate higher profit for the practice.

I really don't know many folks that aren't living paycheck to paycheck, particularly when you look at vets paying over $100,000 back in debt, and in this economy.

Additionally, there is a point where a clinic has more than enough business to be very very busy (particularly on an insane day where a HBC and heat stroke animal are brought itn and your best client's favorite stud breaks a bone being foolish) but do not make enough to support a second vet or even an additional tech. That is a tough spot for a clinic to be in because no one wants to turn away clients, but you can destroy the business inside and out by adding staff if you do not actually have enough business to bridge that gap. Growing pains. Additionally, adding additional staff won't deal with space shortages, and if the owner needs to fold money into expanding space to support additional staff..... well, where is that money likely to come from? They have to decide between growth and incentives for current staff.

I don't know about other schools, but here we are required to take at least 2 intensive weeks of (8 hours/day) class in business. We also have a very active VBMA, many of us attend the Wolfpack Leadership Conference that is only about vet med. AAHA is working on offering a weekend seminar on finding mentors in the field, growing business for the practice you are in, and a resume evaluation workshop. There are also other selectives that are very popular about client communication. We do have a joint MBA program as well.

Originally Posted by sunshinevet

Getting people to pay the bill is always the number one issue of any vet clinic anywhere in the western world. guaranteed


Why don't you think $500 is a fair price for a "routine" dental?
A good routine dental should include (based on numerous discussions on VIN)

• Preanaesthetic bloods (as most dental patients are older) including, CBC, PCV/TP, electrolytes, basic biochem
• Predental x-rays to determine the extent of dental disease - vets are increasingly realising that this is an extremely important step in treating dental disease!
• Full PE
• Premedication with a suitable modern sedative and good analgesia (as extractions and dentals are painful!)
• Induction with a modern, safe agent (no xylazine for the doggies/kitties please!) with maintenence on a safe inhalation agent via an endotracheal tube
• Peri-operative analgesia including nerve blocks if doing extensive extractions
• IV fluids during anaesthesia
• Anaesthetic monitoring from a suffienciently trained person, including (hopefully) pulse ox, ECG, BP, temp, capnography would be nice...
• Another highly trained person performing the procedure of examination of the entire oral cavity, extractions as nessercerry from exam and xrays, scale and polish
• Adequate recovery in a controlled environment under immediate supervision.
• Discharge appointment home, with antibiotics and analgesia as nessercerry, and a series of follow up appts - one in 2 wks time if extractions, and then 1 in 12 months time to recheck the teeth (with a nurse) and dental care advice.

How is that NOT worth $500?!?!?!?!?! How is that NOT worth more?!?!!?!?!?! And if your lovely "B" vet is doing all this for $250, he's losing money. If he's not doing all this, or even offering it, he is not offering his patients top-notch medicine, (regardless of whether or not they would accept it).

At vet school, we are always told to offer the best option first. No matter what the cost of that is - that is up to the owner to decide, not for you to judge first. You do this because it is the BEST OPTION. That is your job, to offer the best option, and to hopefully convice them to take it, as it is the BEST option and you are an advocate for their pet.

The problem I have with using lower routine costs as a business plan is
a) In general this does NOT work. regardless of what you've seen in ONE case
b) it encourages price shopping, which is NEVER a good thing.
c) we should be educating people about how the money we ask for is WORTH IT, not cutting our costs. We should be aiming to charge what we DESERVE for our services. if we charge ridiculously small amounts for our routine things, it gives the idea to clients that that is all we DESERVE, when we actually deserve so much more. Also, it can cause difficulties when something non-routine pops up, the prices are hugely more and they don't understand the discrepencies. We should be educating clients on how much our services are actually worth and this is where a good tech comes in - people get all up in arms about paying $500 for someone to "clean their dogs teeth". But if you have an awesome tech that can communicate well, they can explain everything ive outlined above and then every reasonable person says yes! (they really do, ive seen it/done it lol).

Lastly, in genuinely made me laugh that in the same post you said that you think vets should drop their charges and pay their techs more. Um, what?!

Hang on one second before you start freaking out about these prices. You are from Australia correct? The cost of living in Australia is twice as much as America.

For example:

The average house price in Australia is around 500,000 dollars. http://www.aussiemove.com/costofliving/

You can get a mansion for that price here. The average American house price is 200,000 dollars. http://www.realestateabc.com/outlook/overall.htm

Additionally, the minimum wadge in Australia is 15$ an hour and in America its around 8... and in some places less.

So by just the cost of living, Australia is twice as expensive as America meaning that a 500$ dental here would be around 1000$ there.

And a 500$ dental in Australia would be around 250$ here. So basically we are talking about the same price.

Knowing this do you still have the same opinion?