For WesternU students, Research or ISAC?

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Hi, I was wondering if any current WesternU students could provide an opinion on which would be a better option for this upcoming summer: working on a research project at a local university (I've been working on this project for a couple of years, now and would like to continue with it for as long as possible) or enrolling into ISAC?

I am mainly interested in ISAC to free up some time in the Fall for research, but I don't know if it would be worth it to let go of that period of a few months where I can be full-time.

Thanks for any insights. I really appreciate it.

I didn't do ISAC, but if I had I would have gone on to TA during general anatomy. I think having the opportunity to go over the anatomy a second time + do something to put on your CV + make some cash is pretty much the draw for ISAC. If you intend to take ISAC and then instead of TA use your extra time to do research you would be better of working on your project full time then taking anatomy in August with the rest of the class IMHO.

I agree. ISAC is a great way to jump start your CV as a med student. If you become a TA it will look good when applying to residencies. Think of it this way:

Applicant #1

-4 years of research with group A

Applicant #2

-3.5 years of research with group A
-TA for anatomy as MS1.

It's up to you to decide which one is worth more. The TA for anatomy or the extra time in the research lab with group A. Option A may be more enticing if you want to stay at home a little bit longer.

Don't do either, take your last summer off. First year sucks and its long enough as it is.

No residency is going to care if you were a TA as a first year medical student and unless you can crank out a publication in that last summer, that won't matter much either.

Originally Posted by ahyes

Don't do either, take your last summer off. First year sucks and its long enough as it is.

No residency is going to care if you were a TA as a first year medical student and unless you can crank out a publication in that last summer, that won't matter much either.

Extremely valid points.

Originally Posted by ahyes

Don't do either, take your last summer off. First year sucks and its long enough as it is.

No residency is going to care if you were a TA as a first year medical student and unless you can crank out a publication in that last summer, that won't matter much either.

You dont get much advantage, especially once anatomy is done in early October

This may or may not mean anything to you....but there is a bit of a division in our class among groups of friends between the non-ISAC and ISAC students. Its less apparent now although still there, but for the first semester there wasn't much mixing among the two groups of students. And considering ISAC students only make up like 30/200 students..... well im sure you can see where im going with that, especially when making friends in med school is pretty important in my opinion. Also naturally people who do ISAC tend to me more of the type A gunner personality. If that suits your personality than im sure you will love it

Of course these are things related to the social aspect of medical school. Things people dont often consider. Maybe its important to you. Just something to keep in mind

Originally Posted by docnotsopc

You dont get much advantage, especially once anatomy is done in early October

This may or may not mean anything to you....but there is a bit of a division in our class among groups of friends between the non-ISAC and ISAC students. Its less apparent now although still there, but for the first semester there wasn't much mixing among the two groups of students. And considering ISAC students only make up like 30/200 students..... well im sure you can see where im going with that, especially when making friends in med school is pretty important in my opinion. Also naturally people who do ISAC tend to me more of the type A gunner personality. If that suits your personality than im sure you will love it

Of course these are things related to the social aspect of medical school. Things people dont often consider. Maybe its important to you. Just something to keep in mind

My friend who took ISAC actually just told me about this the other day. Could you elaborate on the segregation? Is there actually animosity between the two "groups" and whatnot? Thanks.

Originally Posted by MRSAful Fate

Extremely valid points.

Very true. The fact that you TA'd will probably be the least important thing on your CV for residency.

The TA in year one may or may not make a direct impact. However, I feel it could open doors for me before I make it to residency. I plan to apply for the OMM fellowship in year 3. I feel that the TA in MS1 will give me a slight advantage. From there, a teaching fellowship would look great on residency applications.

In the long run, you have be excited about whatever decision you want. I wouldn't do the ISAC and TA if you aren't excited about it. It will probably drag and won't help you much.

Originally Posted by dbizzy

Is there actually animosity between the two "groups" and whatnot?

No. The ISAC students spend a few weeks stuck together studying anatomy all day before they meet the rest of the class. Naturally many of them become friends. There was some grumbling early on about the ISAC people having an unfair advantage because they could study ahead and that their anatomy grade average was much higher than the rest of the class, but that blew over pretty quickly.

Research leading to a publication > ISAC > research not leading to a pub

Originally Posted by Kevin Baker

Research leading to a publication > ISAC > research not leading to a pub

Agreed !

Originally Posted by MRSAful Fate

No. The ISAC students spend a few weeks stuck together studying anatomy all day before they meet the rest of the class. Naturally many of them become friends. There was some grumbling early on about the ISAC people having an unfair advantage because they could study ahead and that their anatomy grade average was much higher than the rest of the class, but that blew over pretty quickly.

I assume you are an ISAC student? Or if not, you certainly share a unique experience.

MRSAful Fate is dead on with the reasoning for the slight hatred. But remember the type of people attracted to a program like ISAC. These generally are the type A gunners who gave up their last full summer to get slightly ahead. People who dont fall into this category obviously get annoyed at these type of people.

There is still segregation among the groups although its only slightly noticeable now. However that doesnt mean that I dont continually hear non-ISAC students hating on ISAC students. In fact I hear this often from all kinds of people in our class

Again, this is a very very small reason into whether or not to choose ISAC. OP, you could be the ISAC student that everyone loves in the full class who knows. But that definitely didnt happen this year

Originally Posted by Kevin Baker

Research leading to a publication > ISAC > research not leading to a pub

Thanks for all the responses! It's pretty helpful in trying to figure out how to go about this.

Since I have no interest in being a TA or spending time with a large number of "gunner" personalities (whatever that may be) during this last summer, it sounds like research is my best bet. I just have to time manage the hell out of Fall semester to still be able to present at the conferences and finish up a report.

Originally Posted by BlindPilot

Hi, I was wondering if any current WesternU students could provide an opinion on which would be a better option for this upcoming summer: working on a research project at a local university (I've been working on this project for a couple of years, now and would like to continue with it for as long as possible) or enrolling into ISAC?

I am mainly interested in ISAC to free up some time in the Fall for research, but I don't know if it would be worth it to let go of that period of a few months where I can be full-time.

Thanks for any insights. I really appreciate it.

Take the summer off and live it up.

Your days off will be numbered and extremely few once you've crossed the threshold of acceptance into med school. Your last " summer" will be after first year. ISAC offers probablya few weeks advantage in the first semester in terms of how much you have to study. Of course with the other firehoses known as your basic sciences and OMM flooding you at the same time, that advantage is short lived.

Let the true to form gunners invest themselves in ISAC. That's their choice. Call it your first risk/benefit ratio. Is your last few summers truly worth a few hours more you would otherwise dedicate towards your other classes?

Can someone speak to the WesternU "benefits" for the OMM fellowship? Is there a tuition waiver component?

Originally Posted by Mosonik

Can someone speak to the WesternU "benefits" for the OMM fellowship? Is there a tuition waiver component?

Yeah, but then take into consideration that you're delaying graduation, residency, WORK by another year, so according to the fellows there isn't any financial gain to the fellowship.

From what they said at the meeting last fall, tuition is waived and there's a small stipend you get for teaching.

Originally Posted by MRSAful Fate

No. The ISAC students spend a few weeks stuck together studying anatomy all day before they meet the rest of the class. Naturally many of them become friends. There was some grumbling early on about the ISAC people having an unfair advantage because they could study ahead and that their anatomy grade average was much higher than the rest of the class, but that blew over pretty quickly.

Yeah and then the other basic science courses rolled around and the playing field was evened out a bit.

Originally Posted by Mosonik

Can someone speak to the WesternU "benefits" for the OMM fellowship? Is there a tuition waiver component?

Benefits: You win what ultimately looks like a popularity contest. Looks good if you're trying for an OMM/NMM residency/fellowship (post residency fellowship)... probably.

Cons: You lose a year of actual work... and the tuition benefit doesn't come close to what you'll make as an attending.

Is the wavier just for the extra year or is it for all clinical years?

Originally Posted by Mosonik

Is the wavier just for the extra year or is it for all clinical years?

All clinical/teaching years = 3 years waived

Thanks for the responses n3xa, I'm just trying to get a feel for what other programs offer to their fellows since I'll likely be applying for mine in the coming years and the department is still sorting these details out.

Siggy, I hope that not all programs are about some form of popularity contest. It takes away from the purpose of the experience and probably robs some good candidates of the opportunity.

Originally Posted by Siggy

Benefits: You win what ultimately looks like a popularity contest. Looks good if you're trying for an OMM/NMM residency/fellowship (post residency fellowship)... probably.

Looking at the new fellows list, it seemed like a good mix of people and not necessarily a complete popularity contest.