Cutthroat Competition in School

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Back when I was a P1, I made some tables that made it easier to study for drug card quizzes. Couple of weeks ago, I noticed that the new P1 class was starting the semester when they do drug cards. I made a posting on the Facebook group about the tables and sent them out to about 25 people telling them to send it out to the rest of the class who aren't on FB.

Apparently, these guys only sent the tables to their friends and not the entire class.

Is this **** normal at your school?

Might just be an issue of them not knowing the emails/contacts of people they're not friends of, that or they're d-bags.

Originally Posted by naseuy

Might just be an issue of them not knowing the emails/contacts of people they're not friends of, that or they're d-bags.

Nope, some of my P1 friends confirmed that it is true that people don't share helpful information with everyone in that class. Seems to be an issue among racial cliques as well.

One of my friends in the P1 class told me that one time she was gonna be late to her IPPE site, so she texted the other girl she was with at the IPPE site to let preceptor know, but the other girl never told the preceptor. (Not sure why she didn't just call the preceptor instead of going thru classmate).

The 2015 class at my school is quite odd in comparison to the 2012, 2013, 2014 classes.

During my amb care rotation, my preceptor who's also a professor at school had me as her TA for a few classes that month. And holy ****, this class just never shuts up when the professor is talking. Annoying as ****.

Also, at a social at the beginning of the year, I was hitting on a P1 girl. Some guy walks over, looks at her in a mean way, gives me a "**** off" look and drags her away. Apparently that was her boyfriend who also matriculated into the same class. Some weird ****.

Originally Posted by Sparda29

Back when I was a P1, I made some tables that made it easier to study for drug card quizzes. Couple of weeks ago, I noticed that the new P1 class was starting the semester when they do drug cards. I made a posting on the Facebook group about the tables and sent them out to about 25 people telling them to send it out to the rest of the class who aren't on FB.

Apparently, these guys only sent the tables to their friends and not the entire class.

Is this **** normal at your school?

Each generation thinks the one prior or after is stupid or dumb just as any work- shift swears that the shift before or after does not do s h it. I believe I did see a varied version of this behavior when I was a P1 and P2 back in 2007/8. Its human nature.

Also Im not a big fan of giving out unsolicited things or even advice. Easiest way to see goodwill blow up in the face like a TNT cuban cigar.

Yeah I noticed a lot of P1s and P2s at my school are incredibly immature. I look back and think "were we like that 2-3 years ago?" and I don't think we were. But on the same token, as tem said, older generations probably feel the same way about us.

But in my defense, when I applied to my school, there were 900 applicants. Now, the school is struggling to even get enough students who are *qualified* to be admitted. They're gonna have to lower their standard of a 3.0 math/science gpa to a 2.5 eventually to stay in business. Seems like they're taking what they can get, even if it's the immature students with GPAs 0 standard deviations from the mean.

What do you expect when you put 100+ ego bruised med school cast offs into a small pond that is pharmacy school

Originally Posted by 007rx

Yeah I noticed a lot of P1s and P2s at my school are incredibly immature. I look back and think "were we like that 2-3 years ago?" and I don't think we were. But on the same token, as tem said, older generations probably feel the same way about us.

But in my defense, when I applied to my school, there were 900 applicants. Now, the school is struggling to even get enough students who are *qualified* to be admitted. They're gonna have to lower their standard of a 3.0 math/science gpa to a 2.5 eventually to stay in business. Seems like they're taking what they can get, even if it's the immature students with GPAs 0 standard deviations from the mean.

If they aren't getting enough students who qualify, reduce the class size.

Originally Posted by Sparda29

If they aren't getting enough students who qualify, reduce the class size.

Ack, they can't do that! That's lost money! Besides, what's a school's reputation compared to moola

We refer to this as "med-schooling"

Originally Posted by npage148

What do you expect when you put 100+ ego bruised med school cast offs into a small pond that is pharmacy school

Anyway, as for me, I went to pharmacy school because I WANTED to be a pharmacist, not because I couldn't get into med school. I didn't want to be a doctor.

Originally Posted by rph3664

Anyway, as for me, I went to pharmacy school because I WANTED to be a pharmacist, not because I couldn't get into med school. I didn't want to be a doctor.

Yeah i totally agree with you like why do some of these dumb posters come in here and think we all want to go to med school. Med school and being a doctor isn't all cracked up as it seems.
Problems with being an MD
1) You don't have enough family time
2) Possibly on call all the time or have patients calling you at home
3) Government slams you with taxes
4) Malpractice and frivilous lawsuits
5) Length of residency and strong competition for top positions in medical specialties
List goes on and on, you don't need to be a doctor to save people because there will always be doctors. Anyone can simply donate food, clothing, etc to save or help others.

Originally Posted by Pharmpills

Yeah i totally agree with you like why do some of these dumb posters come in here and think we all want to go to med school..

It's a joke, unbunch your panties...

Originally Posted by atpsynthase

We refer to this as "med-schooling"

^ Indeed.

I will second other people's statement about the overall whiny/entitled attitude of the class. And what is with people NOT SHUTTING UP when the prof starts talking?? Really, people? Really??

But back to the original point of the thread - I think most people in our class are willing to help out when asked, and some even send out study guides and links to online flash cards to the entire class. Someone from another class also sent us a few of their old study guides, which was nice. Inevitably, there are still those people that think grades are the most important thing ever and act like the exam will be curved (they haven't been so far) so they must do better than everyone else!

Our class was generally cordial to each other, but when it came to academics and notes, we tended to work within our established study groups. We had about 4-7 groups that encompassed about 85% of the class and ranged in size from 2-10 people.

I know anytime I got a hold of good information/tables/etc.... or stuff we created, i disseminated to the group only.

Worked better that way.

same deal at my school. probably just people being immature and selfish. not good in the long run for networking and such imo.

Originally Posted by confettiflyer

Our class was generally cordial to each other, but when it came to academics and notes, we tended to work within our established study groups. We had about 4-7 groups that encompassed about 85% of the class and ranged in size from 2-10 people.

I know anytime I got a hold of good information/tables/etc.... or stuff we created, i disseminated to the group only.

Worked better that way.

Now are these established study groups assigned, or people sorta just fell into them? I'm tired of the ****ing racial cliques.

Originally Posted by Sparda29

Now are these established study groups assigned, or people sorta just fell into them? I'm tired of the ****ing racial cliques.

Sounds like you guys have it rough. Especially of there is backstabbing and racial divides. Would you recommend your school then?

I'm surprised that pharmacy classes have this issue. I'll admit that my class has it's groups that tend to stick together...I'm in one of them. However, we do nice things for each other like remind each other of due dates and post notes on our facebook page. I'd say that I'm pretty happy with out our class treats each other.

On a side note, I have yet to talk to a classmate who wanted to be a doctor...

Since when did not sharing your study habits become immature? So so so so sorry that im not sharing my study tables with the rest of the class like a good communist would. I owe you guys nothing and those who disagree are the real immature crowd.

It usually depends on the class and the individuals involved.

If those few people want to be helpful, they do that (send it out to most or all classmates).

Then there are others who are so shady 24/7 that you think they might be leading a second life.

Originally Posted by RX86

Sounds like you guys have it rough. Especially of there is backstabbing and racial divides. Would you recommend your school then?

Yeah, I'd recommend it. My class doesn't seem to have racial cliques, but there are divisions among other things like; gunners stick with other gunners, slackers stick with other slackers, football/beer fans stick with each other.

Originally Posted by BenJammin

Since when did not sharing your study habits become immature? So so so so sorry that im not sharing my study tables with the rest of the class like a good communist would. I owe you guys nothing and those who disagree are the real immature crowd.

It's not "your" study table. You were sent one by a P4 just because you happened to be online when the P4 made the announcement with instructions to give it to everyone.

Originally Posted by Sparda29

It's not "your" study table. You were sent one by a P4 just because you happened to be online when the P4 made the announcement with instructions to give it to everyone.

Excuse me, it is MY study table since I created it myself. Maybe one day UNICEF will get into the therapeutics note taking business but until then, come up with your own.

Originally Posted by Sparda29

Now are these established study groups assigned, or people sorta just fell into them? I'm tired of the ****ing racial cliques.

we're all asian from california except one person, haha.

Originally Posted by BenJammin

Excuse me, it is MY study table since I created it myself. Maybe one day UNICEF will get into the therapeutics note taking business but until then, come up with your own.

lol, I was using the example from my school. If you made the table yourself, it's your choice to send it out to others or not. Now, if you're a P1 and your buddy in the P4 year sent it to you, then you gotta send it to everyone else as well.

Originally Posted by Sparda29

lol, I was using the example from my school. If you made the table yourself, it's your choice to send it out to others or not. Now, if you're a P1 and your buddy in the P4 year sent it to you, then you gotta send it to everyone else as well.

I'd send my study notes/tables to select P1-P3 students with password protected PDF's. Granted, it can still get distributed, but that's my hard work...I'm going to control who benefits and who doesn't as it is my prerogative.

Meh. I share whatever. At the end of the day, your grades depend on you.

In our P2 and P3 year we had a googledoc where people posted therapeutics notes and a student moderated it. Anyone in the class could join, but they would be kicked out if they didn't contribute. Only problem is that eventually about half the class stopped contributing.

Yeah my class also went the google doc route, and it made some of us lazy. Probably something like 90% lazy. What really bothered me was when people would complain about the docs. Um, excuse me, if you don't like it, why not contribute something?

Originally Posted by owlegrad

Um, excuse me, if you don't like it, why not contribute something?

Seriously.

It's like some people grew up all spoiled because their parents always helped out.

Originally Posted by BenJammin

Excuse me, it is MY study table since I created it myself. Maybe one day UNICEF will get into the therapeutics note taking business but until then, come up with your own.

I am a lurker from pre-pharm, but I had to respond. My husband says this all the time. Well maybe one day UNICEF will get into the cleaning/cooking/listening business, but until then.... And his name is Ben.

Originally Posted by schamj01

I'm surprised that pharmacy classes have this issue. I'll admit that my class has it's groups that tend to stick together...I'm in one of them. However, we do nice things for each other like remind each other of due dates and post notes on our facebook page. I'd say that I'm pretty happy with out our class treats each other.

We're similar in this respect. Our facebook page has been quite handy at times.

On a side note, I have yet to talk to a classmate who wanted to be a doctor...

I've talked to at least one. I assumed they would apply P4 year, but they are applying during the early middle part of our program, so they would leave before completing the PharmD if accepted.

Originally Posted by BenJammin

Since when did not sharing your study habits become immature? So so so so sorry that im not sharing my study tables with the rest of the class like a good communist would. I owe you guys nothing and those who disagree are the real immature crowd.

I guess I'm a good communist. We're all in it together, and I"m not shooting for top 10%, so I don't mind sharing anything I do or find. I've been lied to by at least a few students, but that's cool. I know who to avoid in practice.

Originally Posted by pharm B

I guess I'm a good communist. We're all in it together, and I"m not shooting for top 10%, so I don't mind sharing anything I do or find. I've been lied to by at least a few students, but that's cool. I know who to avoid in practice.

I have heard of that comrade, but it hasn't happened to me (that I know of). That is something I will just never be able to wrap my head around. I have the perspective that both parties benefit when you help someone. Nearly everyone can spot the person(s) willing to throw you under the bus to get ahead. It may help in the short run (getting the only A or whatever) but in the long run it will come back to bite you once people have your number. It's just stupid, IMO.

Que rph to tell a story about how someone did this to get ahead and it worked until their neighbor got struck by lightning or something.

Originally Posted by owlegrad

I have heard of that comrade, but it hasn't happened to me (that I know of). That is something I will just never be able to wrap my head around. I have the perspective that both parties benefit when you help someone. Nearly everyone can spot the person(s) willing to throw you under the bus to get ahead. It may help in the short run (getting the only A or whatever) but in the long run it will come back to bite you once people have your number. It's just stupid, IMO.

Originally Posted by owlegrad

I have heard of that comrade, but it hasn't happened to me (that I know of). That is something I will just never be able to wrap my head around. I have the perspective that both parties benefit when you help someone. Nearly everyone can spot the person(s) willing to throw you under the bus to get ahead. It may help in the short run (getting the only A or whatever) but in the long run it will come back to bite you once people have your number. It's just stupid, IMO.

Que rph to tell a story about how someone did this to get ahead and it worked until their neighbor got struck by lightning or something.

OMG lmfao

Originally Posted by owlegrad

I have heard of that comrade, but it hasn't happened to me (that I know of). That is something I will just never be able to wrap my head around. I have the perspective that both parties benefit when you help someone. Nearly everyone can spot the person(s) willing to throw you under the bus to get ahead. It may help in the short run (getting the only A or whatever) but in the long run it will come back to bite you once people have your number. It's just stupid, IMO.

Que rph to tell a story about how someone did this to get ahead and it worked until their neighbor got struck by lightning or something.

glad you agree with me.

owlegrad loves to share. Just don't let him share TOO much, or you might need to get a penicillin shot.

We utilize Dropbox and Quizlet for information. Communication thru facebook.

If you want to utilize the information provided, then more power to you. No-one can make you study.

Not everyone contributes, but we also don't prevent anyone from using the information.

My school has a P/F 90%. This basically means everyone must get an A. It also takes out the competition, because everyone who graduates will end up with 90%. I mostly see positives in this. We all share as much as possible.

One negative has been relying on others to compile study notes. There is a significant portion of the class that just waits for a select few to put out their notes and they only study from those notes. Today's test was on the Top 200 drugs and you are not given the information to study. You are supposed to use lexi-comp/clinical pharm, etc... to get the information. I just wait for someone to make a study table with the information and then study off that. I then usually miss the same questions as everyone who used those notes.

Originally Posted by Summitguy98

Today's test was on the Top 200 drugs and you are not given the information to study. You are supposed to use lexi-comp/clinical pharm, etc... to get the information. I just wait for someone to make a study table with the information and then study off that. I then usually miss the same questions as everyone who used those notes.

I hope you used the same reference as the professors, since those 200 coveted spots vary depending on where you look. That would majorly suck to have your #170-200 as drugs completely different from the 30 that they picked.

They said which drugs, but did not provide any of the doses, indications, MOA's etc...

We just needed to look it all up and learn it. I just used a table of information someone else compiled. Either way, I passed.

jesus do people really learn anything from this "top 200" drug busy work exercise?

my top 200 drugs are going to differ from someone else's top 200 hundred drugs depending on practice.

it's like classic pump and dump. like a one night stand.

Originally Posted by confettiflyer

jesus do people really learn anything from this "top 200" drug busy work exercise?

my top 200 drugs are going to differ from someone else's top 200 hundred drugs depending on practice.

it's like classic pump and dump. like a one night stand.

I actually learned stuff from the "top 200" we did.

I still remember some every now and then.

Not everyone does a pump and dump.

Originally Posted by confettiflyer

jesus do people really learn anything from this "top 200" drug busy work exercise?

my top 200 drugs are going to differ from someone else's top 200 hundred drugs depending on practice.

it's like classic pump and dump. like a one night stand.

Some would say one night stands are gratifying..just sayin

Originally Posted by rxlea

Some would say one night stands are gratifying..just sayin

Absolutely nowadays. Our year shares every and anything. We set up sharing sites, Facebook groups, all this ****. I myself sent out material and got review material. I see the year under us being secretive, "competitive"...you're in a 0-6 school, no one cares. I actually really dislike this as I work a lot to help other people and expect the same in return, which is usually always delivered.

Just remember that your class of 100 will all be competing for the same 10 pharmacist jobs after graduation.


I'm not really competitive or anything, but I can see why there would be some incentive to do so, especially if you need your GPA for residency apps. I'd say most of the time when you share something, you receive other help in return, so it probably evens out, if not benefits you more.

Originally Posted by Ackj

I'd say most of the time when you share something, you receive other help in return, so it probably evens out, if not benefits you more.

I just hope it's just as beneficial as sharing in school.

If it's a trend amongst newer students then it probably has to do with saturation/fear of job market getting to their heads. 5 years ago everyone in your class was more or less guaranteed a job sooo your 4 years of PharmD was one giant party, counting down the days to your first paycheck. Now when you're gonna have to COMPETE with those classmates for the same job...well....it inspires competition! It doesn't matter if helping someone benefits you in some way or not if you don't see it that way. The competition blurs your vision. Why are undergrads so fiercely competitive in their science classes? Because they know med school or pharmacy school has X number of spots. Why are pharm students getting competitive? Because job market has X number of spots...

Originally Posted by Jackie B

If it's a trend amongst newer students then it probably has to do with saturation/fear of job market getting to their heads. 5 years ago everyone in your class was more or less guaranteed a job sooo your 4 years of PharmD was one giant party, counting down the days to your first paycheck. Now when you're gonna have to COMPETE with those classmates for the same job...well....it inspires competition! It doesn't matter if helping someone benefits you in some way or not if you don't see it that way. The competition blurs your vision. Why are undergrads so fiercely competitive in their science classes? Because they know med school or pharmacy school has X number of spots. Why are pharm students getting competitive? Because job market has X number of spots...

Do you think people lie about job openings too?

Meh, I have never believed it is in my best interest to hinder someone else. I hope I never do. In general people who think that way often expose themselves as such. Who wants to work with someone like that? It may get you ahead in some ways, but I do not think it is the key to long term success.

I recall reading something awhile back about ways to get ahead, and it was super hard core. Stuff like "Think of people as the rungs on a ladder to your success". I thought it was satire at first.