help... dismissed from med school

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A fourth year dismissed for some bad clinical evals. What are my options? Where can I transfer to?

School won't let you remediate? If its a really bad violation I understand dismissal but not for just flunking.

Originally Posted by SaviorDoctor

A fourth year dismissed for some bad clinical evals. What are my options? Where can I transfer to?

I heard the Caribbean has nice weather...

Originally Posted by SaviorDoctor

A fourth year dismissed for some bad clinical evals. What are my options? Where can I transfer to?

No you cant slap your patients until they comply

Originally Posted by SaviorDoctor

A fourth year dismissed for some bad clinical evals. What are my options? Where can I transfer to?

I feel your pain. I was so frustrated with my team yesterday. I almost went off the rocker so to speak. I finally just said I can't deal with you right now and left LOL. That's gonna get my a good eval for sure.

Just out of curiosity -- what the heck is happening to you guys to make you "almost go off the rocker"?

Originally Posted by thoffen

Just out of curiosity -- what the heck is happening to you guys to make you "almost go off the rocker"?

Not getting to answer questions for which I knew the answer, having my opinion discounted, being treated with skepticism, and having another person on the team who is being totally obnoxious and obsequious towards the attending getting all the credit. There are other things too, but those are some major issues. The first two attendings were awesome but the whole team changed except for me and now everything is really different. Errrrrr. I am actually proud of myself for not "snapping" and removing myself from the situation before something even worse happened.

Originally Posted by GladifImakeit

Not getting to answer questions for which I knew the answer, having my opinion discounted, being treated with skepticism, and having another person on the team who is being totally obnoxious and obsequious towards the attending getting all the credit. There are other things too, but those are some major issues. The first two attendings were awesome but the whole team changed except for me and now everything is really different. Errrrrr. I am actually proud of myself for not "snapping" and removing myself from the situation before something even worse happened.

A radiologist in the making?

Originally Posted by GladifImakeit

Not getting to answer questions for which I knew the answer, having my opinion discounted, being treated with skepticism, and having another person on the team who is being totally obnoxious and obsequious towards the attending getting all the credit. There are other things too, but those are some major issues. The first two attendings were awesome but the whole team changed except for me and now everything is really different. Errrrrr. I am actually proud of myself for not "snapping" and removing myself from the situation before something even worse happened.

I'm just a lowly M2, but wouldn't the ideal response be to just stay quiet and let the situation pass, rather than walking away? Obviously walking away is better than snapping at someone, but I feel like shutting up and going with the flow as a defense mechanism will probably get you in less trouble than walking away in a huff. I could see that being viewed poorly.

dismissed now? after match? wow...i m sorry but what did you do to warrant dismissal now?
guess i still need to show up everyday...

Im not sure what the OP could have done to warrant dismissal at this point and my spider senses are tingling since he has 2 posts and hasnt been back.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...7#post12290337

His other post. I don't want to discount something that may be true but I find the story hard to believe based on the facts presented, although I assume there is far more to the story than he/she may be willing to tell.

I can't think of anything that could warrant something like this unless he failed multiple rotations solely on failing clinical evals based on what either amounted to his inability to socialize and/or participate in discussion and answering/asking questions. But who knows, it's just a guess.

Originally Posted by thepoopologist

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...7#post12290337

His other post. I don't want to discount something that may be true but I find the story hard to believe based on the facts presented, although I assume there is far more to the story than he/she may be willing to tell.

I can't think of anything that could warrant something like this unless he failed multiple rotations solely on failing clinical evals based on what either amounted to his inability to socialize and/or participate in discussion and answering/asking questions. But who knows, it's just a guess.

I think aPD summed it up well in the other thread. There's something else going on that OP isn't admitting to that was the real reason he was let go, likely during third year. Anything that happened in fourth year was at worst the straw that broke the camel's back. OPs likely lack of awareness of why he was let go probably dooms him going forward.

im aware of a few rotations which intentionally put pressure on the med students. if you crack - u will not get good marks and will certainly not match if you were interested.

whatever the case.... cracking under a little pressure is ridiculous.

Isn't the graduation rate pretty much 99% once you get through your first two years and STEP I?

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

I think aPD summed it up well in the other thread. There's something else going on that OP isn't admitting to that was the real reason he was let go, likely during third year. Anything that happened in fourth year was at worst the straw that broke the camel's back. OPs likely lack of awareness of why he was let go probably dooms him going forward.

I am not skeptical of the OPs assertion. We live in a world where bad things happen to good people. I had to go to a really scary committee of deans and faculty for crying as a second year. You don't think it can happen to you until it happens to you. I have never been the same since (PTSD).

For the guy who said all you need to do is pass step one... that is a joke. Step one is the best part of medical school imo. You get to stay at home and all you have to do is study. I thought the three weeks I had to study was amazing. Some people have even more time off from school. More importantly, you're not even working - you're learning. I'll take learning over deprecation any day of the week. Plus, it's a fair test, or at least fairer. As long as you can afford enough books you have a decent chance of doing well. The scoring algorithm doesn't care if you're white, black, gay, straight, ugly, beautiful, short, tall, thin, fat, rich, poor, or who your parents are.

People have different strengths. I'm a good test taker, but I don't call people who do bad on the steps "ridiculous." You could say it's my fault for not having better people skills but I could equally say someone else did poorly on a test because they have bad test taking skills. I would rather have a doctor who can think for herself then one who is a patronizing and sycophantic "yes-man." If I don't agree with the resident or attending I am not going to keep quiet and risk an adverse outcome for the patient in whose care and welfare I am invested. To do so would be unethical. Yes, I am less experienced and may not always be right, but I don't think I should be cut off and disregarded. Similarly, I value the input of the social worker, the pharmacist, the MS3, friends and family of the patient, the PMD, and so forth. Collaboration is better IMO than hierarchical malarkey.

NO way man... you still gotta get through third year clerkship exams...and if you have problems with those it can be drastic at some institutions...

Originally Posted by TAWS

Isn't the graduation rate pretty much 99% once you get through your first two years and STEP I?

This was the ridiculous notion thrown around here when I was a pre-med reading the boards and thinking about applying.

It starts off with "if you are smart enough to be accepted you have a 99% chance of graduating." Then you get to medical school and you find out how easy it can be to drop to the 1%. Everyone around you is intelligent and hard working and you discover someone who is "average" in the class is consistently scoring in the mid-to-high 80s on exams, which is a very difficult mark to achieve. A medical student who is third quartile could easily be achieving a B average, just a lower B average. Ah, but if you're third quartile you are told, "it doesn't matter what your grades are, just ROCK the Step 1." But if you are a student who hasn't patiently put the pieces together the first two years you will most likely NOT be rocking Step 1. You will most likely be getting a Step 1 score that is in line with your pre-clinical performance.

Then you hear about how clinicals are WAY better than the first two years (Or what about the generic saying "it gets better"?). It sounds like chocolate rivers and gumdrop forests when you're in the library 12 hours a day but IF you make it to clinicals, because some students don't, you find out it's just a whole other **** bag. Not only do you have to know your preclinical information (because you are going to get pimped, an unpleasant experience if you aren't answering many questions), you have to pass shelf exams, you have to deal with classmates who may or may not be completely aggressive douchebags who do their best to outshine you (my own experience hasn't been too bad), you have to deal with attendings who range from awesome to complete pricks, and you have to kiss those attendings ass if they are in the field you want to enter, because without letters of recommendation you are up **** creek.

Not to mention, any perceived egregious error on the students part, whether egregious or not, in any year 1-4 can send them to the dismissal committee. If dismissed, great, now you have a lot of debt with no way of paying it back.


That said it is not all pain and torture and there are many bright moments, and there is a case to be made about being optimistic and putting your best foot forward regardless of the circumstances. But too much of that has already been posted on here. I admit that I for one only read through the positive things and thought about positive things to push myself forward, but the reality is people need to read about the drawbacks and spend time digesting them and being aware of them. It's not all fun and games.

^Are you on Adderall?

Originally Posted by CaptainSSO

^Are you on Adderall?

Does Flamebroiler have delicious food?

Originally Posted by CaptainSSO

^Are you on Adderall?

Xanax might help people who are either anxious or easily frustrated on the wards. Not sure about stimulants though...

Originally Posted by GladifImakeit

I am not skeptical of the OPs assertion. We live in a world where bad things happen to good people. I had to go to a really scary committee of deans and faculty for crying as a second year. You don't think it can happen to you until it happens to you. I have never been the same since (PTSD).

For the guy who said all you need to do is pass step one... that is a joke. Step one is the best part of medical school imo. You get to stay at home and all you have to do is study. I thought the three weeks I had to study was amazing. Some people have even more time off from school. More importantly, you're not even working - you're learning. I'll take learning over deprecation any day of the week. Plus, it's a fair test, or at least fairer. As long as you can afford enough books you have a decent chance of doing well. The scoring algorithm doesn't care if you're white, black, gay, straight, ugly, beautiful, short, tall, thin, fat, rich, poor, or who your parents are.

People have different strengths. I'm a good test taker, but I don't call people who do bad on the steps "ridiculous." You could say it's my fault for not having better people skills but I could equally say someone else did poorly on a test because they have bad test taking skills. I would rather have a doctor who can think for herself then one who is a patronizing and sycophantic "yes-man." If I don't agree with the resident or attending I am not going to keep quiet and risk an adverse outcome for the patient in whose care and welfare I am invested. To do so would be unethical. Yes, I am less experienced and may not always be right, but I don't think I should be cut off and disregarded. Similarly, I value the input of the social worker, the pharmacist, the MS3, friends and family of the patient, the PMD, and so forth. Collaboration is better IMO than hierarchical malarkey.

3 years into medical school and you still have principles/have not been transformed into a complete ass? An oasis in the desert appears...

Originally Posted by spaceshark

3 years into medical school and you still have principles/have not been transformed into a complete ass? An oasis in the desert appears...

Meh, good people stay good and complete *****es stay that way -- you just stop hiding your true nature as you progress on this road, and become more jaded and less idealistic. Truth of the matter is only 1-2% of US allo med students end up leaving med school purely for academic reasons. That being said a much higher percentage can find themselves having to do additional coursework because they failed a test, a course or even a semester and have to remediate/repeat. You get lots of second chances in US allo med school because the school views you as an investment. That doesn't mean it's easy. Half the class will be below average. That's often hard for folks who get into med school with better than a 3.5 college GPA to realize -- that they may have transitioned from the excellent college student to the class dullard overnight. And clinical rotations are not easy -- it's a taste of the pain you experience as a resident, although a lot of us actually do prefer this to textbook learning. Reading about XYZ disease is well and nice, but it's not real to you until you stayed up all night keeping a patient with XYZ disease alive.

This is not an easy road, but it's one where you aren't cast aside whimsically after 3 years of schooling. There's gotta be more to OPs story.

Originally Posted by thepoopologist

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...7#post12290337

His other post. I don't want to discount something that may be true but I find the story hard to believe based on the facts presented, although I assume there is far more to the story than he/she may be willing to tell.

I can't think of anything that could warrant something like this unless he failed multiple rotations solely on failing clinical evals based on what either amounted to his inability to socialize and/or participate in discussion and answering/asking questions. But who knows, it's just a guess.

Yeah I call bs on this. He'd at least have to meet with someone and do some sort of remediation before they decided he wasn't a good match for any sort of residency.

Originally Posted by thepoopologist

This was the ridiculous notion thrown around here when I was a pre-med reading the boards and thinking about applying.

It starts off with "if you are smart enough to be accepted you have a 99% chance of graduating." Then you get to medical school and you find out how easy it can be to drop to the 1%. Everyone around you is intelligent and hard working and you discover someone who is "average" in the class is consistently scoring in the mid-to-high 80s on exams, which is a very difficult mark to achieve. A medical student who is third quartile could easily be achieving a B average, just a lower B average. Ah, but if you're third quartile you are told, "it doesn't matter what your grades are, just ROCK the Step 1." But if you are a student who hasn't patiently put the pieces together the first two years you will most likely NOT be rocking Step 1. You will most likely be getting a Step 1 score that is in line with your pre-clinical performance.

Then you hear about how clinicals are WAY better than the first two years (Or what about the generic saying "it gets better"?). It sounds like chocolate rivers and gumdrop forests when you're in the library 12 hours a day but IF you make it to clinicals, because some students don't, you find out it's just a whole other **** bag. Not only do you have to know your preclinical information (because you are going to get pimped, an unpleasant experience if you aren't answering many questions), you have to pass shelf exams, you have to deal with classmates who may or may not be completely aggressive douchebags who do their best to outshine you (my own experience hasn't been too bad), you have to deal with attendings who range from awesome to complete pricks, and you have to kiss those attendings ass if they are in the field you want to enter, because without letters of recommendation you are up **** creek.

Not to mention, any perceived egregious error on the students part, whether egregious or not, in any year 1-4 can send them to the dismissal committee. If dismissed, great, now you have a lot of debt with no way of paying it back.


That said it is not all pain and torture and there are many bright moments, and there is a case to be made about being optimistic and putting your best foot forward regardless of the circumstances. But too much of that has already been posted on here. I admit that I for one only read through the positive things and thought about positive things to push myself forward, but the reality is people need to read about the drawbacks and spend time digesting them and being aware of them. It's not all fun and games.

You sound really bitter. I'm sorry you feel that way.

For me, 200K in the hole with no certainty of matching after 4 frustrating and painful years = bitterness. Sigh.

Originally Posted by FIREitUP

You sound really bitter. I'm sorry you feel that way.

What a simplistic way of summing it up.

Originally Posted by FIREitUP

You sound really bitter. I'm sorry you feel that way.

If you had fire coming out of your butt you'd be pretty bitter too

Originally Posted by thepoopologist

What a simplistic way of summing it up.

Simple yet effective.