CRNA's: sorry not worried anymore

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Originally Posted by BLADEMDA

Anesthesiology will exist as a medical specialy. I urge strong consideration for a fellowship.

Incomes will drop over time. The field has peaked in terms of money. There are still pockets of great practices with low Medicare/Medicaid and self pay. Those practices will endure the longest. However, Obamacare will eventually even get them. Resistance is futile. Obama wants cheap, cost effective care (which means cheap as possible).

CRNAs will not take over the fied completely. They may displace Physicans from the stool sitting role in some areas.

Yes, income could decrease to $200 for academia and $250-275 for private practice circa 2022. The problem with that income is inflation will have eaten away at the real value of that money by then. This translates into much lower income in today's dollars.

man those don't seem like bad numbers at all.....granted we don't know what will happen with inflation, but I think 250-275 is what ppl in California and other popular locations are making TODAY. I think it's important for med students to enter the field expecting those kinds of numbers, and if things don't turn out to be as bad as ppl in sdn keep saying, well then anything more is gravy.

Originally Posted by mersault

man those don't seem like bad numbers at all.....granted we don't know what will happen with inflation, but I think 250-275 is what ppl in California and other popular locations are making TODAY. I think it's important for med students to enter the field expecting those kinds of numbers, and if things don't turn out to be as bad as ppl in sdn keep saying, well then anything more is gravy.

I'm neither a pessimist nor an optimist; I'm simply telling it as I see it.

$275 isn't enough for the cost of your education and sacrifices; but, if it works for you then so be it.

I'd like to see your medical tuition repaid if your payer mix is greater than 50% CMS/No pay. ObamaCare simply can't have its cake and eat it too.

Why should a USA trained Anesthesiologist make 40% less than his/her Canadian Colleague?

Originally Posted by War Machine

Who knows what the landscape will be 5 - 10 years down the road? CCM fellowships have been available for some time and it's been suggested here that it would be a wise idea as something to pursue (along with other fellowships) for training diversification. Does it seem incomprehensible that the field may be move more toward the direction of encompassing ICU/CCM - a la how it is in Europe/UK? I don't care what the job postings of today reflect. It's all about keeping an eye towards the future - there's a sea change going on.

Correct. Long term picture. Long term.

Originally Posted by mersault

granted we don't know what will happen with inflation

Yes we do.

This interests me. Does anyone know what the mean annual income for Canadian anesthesiologists are after adjusting for # of hours worked?

Originally Posted by BLADEMDA

.

Why should a USA trained Anesthesiologist make 40% less than his/her Canadian Colleague?

Originally Posted by BLADEMDA

Why should a USA trained Anesthesiologist make 40% less than his/her Canadian Colleague?

40% less? Where you getting that figure from?


http://student.pnhp.org/content/what...n_salaries.php

Wow. Look at internal medicine! ~78k difference. I imagine that is a little discouraging for US IM doctors.

Originally Posted by vector2

40% less? Where you getting that figure from?


http://student.pnhp.org/content/what...n_salaries.php

Originally Posted by vector2

40% less? Where you getting that figure from?


http://student.pnhp.org/content/what...n_salaries.php

Canadian Resident used to post here reported many starting jobs avail. in Canada at $350K. Also, my 40% discount figure refers to income in 2022. I wonder what Canadian Anesthesiologists will be earning in their currency vs. our devalued US Dollar? Perhaps, 40% was too generous and 50% would be a better number.


http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=706759
"On average the Canadian anesthesiologists make around ~350K a year."

I usually get my facts correct:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=658036

CanGas told the TRUTH as it relates to Canadian Anesthesiologists.

Canada's a good back up plan.

Originally Posted by IlDestriero

Canada's a good back up plan.

Especially if you like BC and OB

There are a lot of great things about Canada, although I wonder if one can easily adapt to the cold and lack of summers (about 1.5 months in most areas).

I am no Grey Owl, but I live in a cabin most of the year near Canada and even I have trouble with the cold. I have slept in 15 degree nights with 3 balaclavas on, and used a lake for water when I lost power.

Living in the cold is not so much fun or easy, unless you are born in the area or have family. This winter, I tried ice fishing, got extreme weather cold gear, but all in all I just kept thinking of summer and warmer weather. I suppose I could snowmobile more, but sailing, swimming or jet skiing is much, much better.

I just got out on my sailboat today and it was a joy. Of course I had a wetsuit on with boots and hoodies and could only last about 40 minutes.

Of course, some people like Richard Proenke survived happily in log cabins in Alaska - for me and most of my "Northern" friends we just simply are jealous of warm weather folks...

Originally Posted by BLADEMDA

I usually get my facts correct:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=658036

CanGas told the TRUTH as it relates to Canadian Anesthesiologists.

Originally Posted by Quirk11

There are a lot of great things about Canada, although I wonder if one can easily adapt to the cold and lack of summers (about 1.5 months in most areas).

I am no Grey Owl, but I live in a cabin most of the year near Canada and even I have trouble with the cold. I have slept in 15 degree nights with 3 balaclavas on, and used a lake for water when I lost power.

Living in the cold is not so much fun or easy, unless you are born in the area or have family. This winter, I tried ice fishing, got extreme weather cold gear, but all in all I just kept thinking of summer and warmer weather. I suppose I could snowmobile more, but sailing, swimming or jet skiing is much, much better.

I just got out on my sailboat today and it was a joy. Of course I had a wetsuit on with boots and hoodies and could only last about 40 minutes.

Of course, some people like Richard Proenke survived happily in log cabins in Alaska - for me and most of my "Northern" friends we just simply are jealous of warm weather folks...

I agree. That's why I will stay in the Southeast or Southwest. Think of the mason Dixon line as my border.

Would anyone else like to add their thoughts on this issue.

I am an MIII in a state where CRNAs and AA's are abundant.

Today when I was doing a consult on a patient a CRNA came in to preop him for an endoscopy. She was asking me about lab values and in the course of the conversation she told me that CK was a more specific marker for the heart than CKMB. When I proceeded to clarify for her she then said, "Really? I did hearts for five years...are you sure?" and googled it on her phone.

Then she looked at the patients EKG, which was clearly a first degree block and said "first degree AV block" on it, and called it a Wenckebach, and to her credit described Wenckebach correctly...then writes down "Mobitz Type II" on her preop assessment.

Originally Posted by thepoopologist

I am an MIII in a state where CRNAs and AA's are abundant.

Today when I was doing a consult on a patient a CRNA came in to preop him for an endoscopy. She was asking me about lab values and in the course of the conversation she told me that CK was a more specific marker for the heart than CKMB. When I proceeded to clarify for her she then said, "Really? I did hearts for five years...are you sure?" and googled it on her phone.

Then she looked at the patients EKG, which was clearly a first degree block and said "first degree AV block" on it, and called it a Wenckebach, and to her credit described Wenckebach correctly...then writes down "Mobitz Type II" on her preop assessment.

LOL, awesome.

Originally Posted by thepoopologist

Then she looked at the patients EKG, which was clearly a first degree block and said "first degree AV block" on it, and called it a Wenckebach, and to her credit described Wenckebach correctly...then writes down "Mobitz Type II" on her preop assessment.

Did she then call the urgent or emergent consult to cards for permanent pacemaker placement?

Woo Hoo!!!! Passed state boards this week, I'm officially an RN!!! No more studying for me, I have my life back!!! Thanks for everyone's support!

Originally Posted by kazuma

Haha yea no more studying is about the correct attitude... I dont think any medical student or resident would even imagine saying that no matter how far along they maybe.

Stumbled upon this CRNA group's website: http://sweetdreams-inc.com/about_us.html

Included is this gem: Incorporated in 2005, Sweet Dreams Nurse Anesthesia, Inc. is proud to carry on the traditional anesthesia practice model, where nurse anesthetists collaborate with surgeons to provide the best anesthesia care possible.

Originally Posted by thepoopologist

I am an MIII in a state where CRNAs and AA's are abundant.

Today when I was doing a consult on a patient a CRNA came in to preop him for an endoscopy. She was asking me about lab values and in the course of the conversation she told me that CK was a more specific marker for the heart than CKMB. When I proceeded to clarify for her she then said, "Really? I did hearts for five years...are you sure?" and googled it on her phone.

Then she looked at the patients EKG, which was clearly a first degree block and said "first degree AV block" on it, and called it a Wenckebach, and to her credit described Wenckebach correctly...then writes down "Mobitz Type II" on her preop assessment.

If not for the AAs I'd think you were local to me.


Back in my well-intentioned but naive early-attendingship days (really not that long ago), I made an attempt to hold a benign M&M style 5-minute review with a few CRNAs to talk over a case that almost went very badly.

Beyond the resentment and simmering anger that I would dare to teach them anything, what was most disturbing was the dismissive way that one misidentified a Mobitz II as a 3rd deg block, yet still thought it was not a big deal in the context of that elective case.


Still, my favorite bad CRNA move of all time is the "move the ECG leads around to make the ST depression go away" stunt.

Originally Posted by pgg

If not for the AAs I'd think you were local to me.


Back in my well-intentioned but naive early-attendingship days (really not that long ago), I made an attempt to hold a benign M&M style 5-minute review with a few CRNAs to talk over a case that almost went very badly.

Beyond the resentment and simmering anger that I would dare to teach them anything, what was most disturbing was the dismissive way that one misidentified a Mobitz II as a 3rd deg block, yet still thought it was not a big deal in the context of that elective case.


Still, my favorite bad CRNA move of all time is the "move the ECG leads around to make the ST depression go away" stunt.

Like the new tagline, pgg, but I'm not sure I want to know who "the blind" are.

Originally Posted by Bertelman

Like the new tagline, pgg, but I'm not sure I want to know who "the blind" are.

I changed it in the midst of my last pointless extended argument with doctor712 ...



Probably ought to be changed again to avoid confusion.

Originally Posted by pgg

I changed it in the midst of my last pointless extended argument with doctor712 ...



Probably ought to be changed again to avoid confusion.

No, it works well, because it can be applied to so many situations. The ambiguity keeps people guessing. Here I thought it applied to your CRNA colleagues.

Originally Posted by Bertelman

No, it works well, because it can be applied to so many situations. The ambiguity keeps people guessing. Here I thought it applied to your CRNA colleagues.

I try not to be ambiguously snarky though, that's just rude.


The 3 .mil CRNAs I work with regularly are solid. It's the random strip-mall-CRNA-mill-trained ones that breeze through the locums joint on short term vacation fills that terrify me.

I would still be concerned.... Volume is not as important as the concept that they are able to provide equivalent care. If they can solidify that enough then the supply will rise to meet demand for cheaper labor.

The fight continues...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/02/us...r=1&ref=health

Conversely, the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists referred to a study it financed that was published in Health Affairs in 2010. It examined Medicare data from 1999 to 2005 and found no evidence that opting out of the supervision requirement resulted in increased inpatient deaths or complications.
“When it comes to giving anesthesia, certified registered nurse anesthetists and anesthesiologists are identical,” said Christopher Bettin, a spokesman for the nurse anesthetists group. “There are no differences in what they learn, the drugs and equipment they use and the standards of care they follow.”


The AANA claims you are glorified CRNA.