Pathology Job Search 2011-2012

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Originally Posted by Thrombus

How many medicine doctors do both GI AND Cardiology fellowships? LOL
How many are relegated to being someone's serf for a career and can't go out and make it on their own, earning the fruits of the own labor????

This is kind of a false analogy, since Cards and GI are each 3 year fellowships. You could do AP only plus three Path subspecialty fellowships and receive the same amount of training time as an IM resident doing one of these fellowships.

Originally Posted by gbwillner

This is kind of a false analogy, since Cards and GI are each 3 year fellowships. You could do AP only plus three Path subspecialty fellowships and receive the same amount of training time as an IM resident doing one of these fellowships.

I think the op's point was that people in IM don't feel the need to do multiple different fellowships to get a job/become more marketable. We all know that the market is better for primary care docs, but it's true that no one after completing residency in IM does multiple fellowships in Cardio and GI or ID plus Rheumatology, etc., but we all know people who did two or three unrelated fellowships in pathology. However; you are correct that's it's not a good analogy in terms of continuing training because our time spent is less since almost all of our fellowships are one year vs two-three for IM.

Originally Posted by atnag

I think the op's point was that people in IM don't feel the need to do multiple different fellowships to get a job/become more marketable. We all know that the market is better for primary care docs, but it's true that no one after completing residency in IM does multiple fellowships in Cardio and GI or ID plus Rheumatology, etc., but we all know people who did two or three unrelated fellowships in pathology. However; you are correct that's it's not a good analogy in terms of continuing training because our time spent is less since almost all of our fellowships are one year vs two-three for IM.

How are people not understanding this??? If path fellowships were three years, you can be sure people would only do one. Just as if GI and Cards were 1 year fellowships, you better believe you'd have a ton of ass-heart docs out there. Its simple economics. You do what you can to get a leg up with sacrificing too much. One year is obviously worth it to most pathologists.

Originally Posted by JKpathMD

How are people not understanding this??? If path fellowships were three years, you can be sure people would only do one. Just as if GI and Cards were 1 year fellowships, you better believe you'd have a ton of ass-heart docs out there. Its simple economics. You do what you can to get a leg up with sacrificing too much. One year is obviously worth it to most pathologists.

Probably so, but what I'm trying to say is that even though there may be a bunch of those ass/heart docs, they wouldn't be doing so just to get a job. It would be to make more bank, not because of an imbalance in the supply and demand in the primary care job market. Whereas most path grads are doing so simply to be employable, very few [pathologists] do so because of the financial incentive that is gained versus an IM grad going into Cardio/GI.

Originally Posted by gbwillner

I personally did not wish to do additional training and will not do so. I know many residents and fellows felt unprepared to practice without the surgpath fellowship, others felt it would just make them more competitive in the marketplace without testing it first.

If a resident is unprepared to be a competent practitioner in their field, why do they get board certified? I can't think of any other fields in medicine where its finishing residents feel the need to do more training after their residency just to be competent - not experts, just competent.

Maybe pathology training generally sucks?

Bravo to not doing a fellowship by the way.

Originally Posted by Substance

I can't think of any other fields in medicine where its finishing residents feel the need to do more training after their residency just to be competent - not experts, just competent.

The problem is that being competent is not good enough in pathology. You have to be an expert in everything. It is not analagous to primary care fields, where you can just know a little about most things.

Originally Posted by Substance

Maybe pathology training generally sucks?

Yes, I've been saying this for years.

Originally Posted by 2121115

The problem is that being competent is not good enough in pathology. You have to be an expert in everything. It is not analagous to primary care fields, where you can just know a little about most things.



Yes, I've been saying this for years.

Pathology training is a joke. Seriously, AP alone is:

Surgpath + all its subspecialties.
Cytopath (gyn and non-gyn)
Autopsy-Adult, pediatric, forensic

Clinical Path (training at most programs is a joke aka mini vacation with dismal passing rates):
Chemistry
Micro
Blood Bank
Hemepath
Immunology
Lab Management
Toxicology

Pathology training is so broad it's not even funny. You are a true jack of all trades master of none. You have PhDs supervising the lab. Why do you need to know anything about chemistry when you have a PhD managing the lab. Even if you didnt have a PhD there, who in the world is going to know anything about chemistry (except the facts you memorized to pass the boards). Do you really think you are going to remember all the facts you studied to pass the CP boards? Plus all the attendings I know, know jack about CP. They took the CP boards 20 years ago and havent used it since unless it had to do something with surgpath (fungal, etc). Talk about a waste of training. 4 months in each area of CP down the tubes. More emphasis should be placed on AP (since that is what will pay the bills AND is more important anyways, for patient care). If you are a graduating resident and spent two years in an AP fellowship, what are you going to remember from CP anyways?

I feel like when you come out of path training, you really haven't mastered anything. If anything, master surgpath, cytopath and hemepath.

Originally Posted by JKpathMD

How are people not understanding this??? If path fellowships were three years, you can be sure people would only do one. Just as if GI and Cards were 1 year fellowships, you better believe you'd have a ton of ass-heart docs out there. Its simple economics. You do what you can to get a leg up with sacrificing too much. One year is obviously worth it to most pathologists.

And cards and GI people do extra fellowships (even if they are "unofficial") also when they sub-subspecialize. It happens everywhere.

Originally Posted by yaah

And cards and GI people do extra fellowships (even if they are "unofficial") also when they sub-subspecialize. It happens everywhere.

That's a fair point. The cardiology fellow does an extra year in the EP lab and boosts their earning potential even further. But I agree there's a difference between someone doing further sub-subspecialization, versus doing multiple one year fellowships in unrelated areas such as derm and cyto, or molecular and gu, solely to get a job.

All this said, I do think we're seeing a general trend within this thread in that those of us in fellowship that have looked for jobs for next year, most of us have found something, even with our variable areas of practice.

Originally Posted by mlw03

That's a fair point. The cardiology fellow does an extra year in the EP lab and boosts their earning potential even further. But I agree there's a difference between someone doing further sub-subspecialization, versus doing multiple one year fellowships in unrelated areas such as derm and cyto, or molecular and gu, solely to get a job.

All this said, I do think we're seeing a general trend within this thread in that those of us in fellowship that have looked for jobs for next year, most of us have found something, even with our variable areas of practice.

Can a cardiologist get credentialed to do EP procedures without a fellowship in them?

Pretty much you can get credentialed to do any anatomic pathology at a hospital with just an AP residency. You don't need NP fellowship or Cytofellowship to read out NP or Cyto. But maybe we will one day. YOu will need a GI path fellowship to do GI, hemepath to do heme etc.... Path seems to move a little slower than other specialties in some regards (i.e. we were really late in the game to embrace recertification exam, etc,,) so maybe that is what our future holds.

Originally Posted by pathstudent

You will need a GI path fellowship to do GI, hemepath to do heme etc....

Do you mean an unwritten requirement by private groups when they're deciding who to hire or an actual policy on a national level and something that will affect getting hospital privileges and/or pathologists' reimbursement from insurance? The vast majority of GI is signed out by generalists and even bread-and-butter heme at small-town community places are signed-out by non-heme people all the time. Plus, there's a bunch of non-ACGME accredited GI programs not to mention the fact that it doesn't even have a subspecialty board exam. If that's so, it will take a long time to take effect because you'd have to wait for the tens of thousands of pathologists across the country who are not subspecialty trained in GI and heme yet sign it out every day to retire/expire.

Now that I've officially signed a contract, I'll play.

Estimated CV sent out: 1 (I really wanted to move to a specific location)
Total interviews completed: 1 (consisted of phone + in-person interview)
Remaining interviews scheduled: None
Number ofjob offers: 2.5 (more on this in a minute)
Practice setting offered: Government (Total: 3 FPs)
Partnership track: N/A
Reason for job opening: Retirement of FP that worked there for several years
Location: Colorado (my 1st choice)
Residency Training: Chicago, AP/CP, 16 total residents
Fellowships: Forensic Pathology
Board certification: AP/CP certified
Statemedical license: Yes

I had a standing offer at my current institution, so that accounts for +1. I also spoke with a Chief Medical Examiner from Canada during a recent national meeting about a possible opening in the next year or so which accounts for the +0.5 (I am confident I would have been hired if I stayed persistent).

Overall, I must say, this thread sort of stressed me out in the beginning, b/c it seemed like I was the only one in fellowship without a sure-fire plan of where I was headed. Luckily for me, it all worked out in the end. I can only speak for FP, but I do think the job market is definitely tough if you have a very specific area in mind.

Anyone else with job search info??

I think a lot of us current fellows have posted by now. Would be curious to know if there are any current fellows among the readership who do not yet have a job (or additional fellowship) lined up for July.

I posted earlier, probably around Nov-Dec, regarding my expreience. I can update my info. I am AP only current dermpath fellow. Board certified in AP with residency (AP/CP) and fellowship at well known institutions. I am an IMG without visa requirement or significant geographical restriction. I started contacting groups in June 2011 for a start date of July 2012. I cold emailed/ called, applied to posted positions and networked at the meetings. In the end, I contacted probably around 130-140 places expressing my interest, over the course of one year. Most of them do not have posted positions at the time of contact.

Interviews: I recieved 9 official invites and probably around 5-6 telephone interviews. I think most of the interviews came in January/ Feb/ March.

I attended 5 interviews and recieved 3 official offers.

Most of my interviews were in private practice (physician owned groups, hospital employed positions, corporate labs). I recieved two academic interviews, one of them I attended and other I declined after speaking to them on phone.

Salary range/ work load: High volume dermpath only positions were in the range of $300K to $380K, these were mostly in corporate labs with workoad of 100 to 150 cases per day. Traditional private groups with a mixture of dermpath + surg path were starting around $250 K with partneship at 2-4 years. Partner salaries were in the range of >400K. Workload and vacation time were great in the private groups as compared to corporate labs. Hospital emplyed positions were in the range of $240 to $300 K with workload of 50-90 cases. Academic salaries were around $160-$180 K.

In the end, I accepted an offer from a physician owned dermpath only group in the geographical area of my preference.

From my experience, the most important thing for the private groups was communication skills and the ability to get along with the clinicians. Training and diagnostic skills were probably second on the list.

Originally Posted by mario2010

I posted earlier, probably around Nov-Dec, regarding my expreience. I can update my info. I am AP only current dermpath fellow. Board certified in AP with residency (AP/CP) and fellowship at well known institutions. I am an IMG without visa requirement or significant geographical restriction. I started contacting groups in June 2011 for a start date of July 2012. I cold emailed/ called, applied to posted positions and networked at the meetings. In the end, I contacted probably around 130-140 places expressing my interest, over the course of one year. Most of them do not have posted positions at the time of contact.

Interviews: I recieved 9 official invites and probably around 5-6 telephone interviews. I think most of the interviews came in January/ Feb/ March.

I attended 5 interviews and recieved 3 official offers.

Most of my interviews were in private practice (physician owned groups, hospital employed positions, corporate labs). I recieved two academic interviews, one of them I attended and other I declined after speaking to them on phone.

Salary range/ work load: High volume dermpath only positions were in the range of $300K to $380K, these were mostly in corporate labs with workoad of 100 to 150 cases per day. Traditional private groups with a mixture of dermpath + surg path were starting around $250 K with partneship at 2-4 years. Partner salaries were in the range of >400K. Workload and vacation time were great in the private groups as compared to corporate labs. Hospital emplyed positions were in the range of $240 to $300 K with workload of 50-90 cases. Academic salaries were around $160-$180 K.

In the end, I accepted an offer from a physician owned dermpath only group in the geographical area of my preference.

From my experience, the most important thing for the private groups was communication skills and the ability to get along with the clinicians. Training and diagnostic skills were probably second on the list.

Congratulations on finding a job! You seemed pretty despondent in your prior posts so I'm glad everything worked out. Plus, you give me hope that there are still jobs out there for dermpaths.

I also wanted to do a quick update. I took another poll of the fellows at my institution and one neighboring institution, and here are the recent stats...

Out of 15 fellows I spoke to, 12 have found jobs in various areas of the country. Many were very happy with the overall location and position. 3 are still looking for positions. There are another 5 or so that I have not heard back from. But thus far it is not looking that bad. Overall, for those finding jobs it seems like most were able to secure a position in the state or part of the state of his or her choice. there is a true mix among these fellows, most with two fellowship. Most have one year of surgical pathology training and then one additional year in something like Cytopath, Heme, GI, Derm and one molecular.

Also, over the past couple of months I have been contacted by two different groups in my area who had unexpected openings and were or are looking for Pathologists.

Anyway, this is the latest in my area. I will do another update towards the very end of the academic year.

Originally Posted by Pathguy11

I also wanted to do a quick update. I took another poll of the fellows at my institution and one neighboring institution, and here are the recent stats...

Out of 15 fellows I spoke to, 12 have found jobs in various areas of the country. Many were very happy with the overall location and position. 3 are still looking for positions. There are another 5 or so that I have not heard back from. But thus far it is not looking that bad. Overall, for those finding jobs it seems like most were able to secure a position in the state or part of the state of his or her choice. there is a true mix among these fellows, most with two fellowship. Most have one year of surgical pathology training and then one additional year in something like Cytopath, Heme, GI, Derm and one molecular.

Also, over the past couple of months I have been contacted by two different groups in my area who had unexpected openings and were or are looking for Pathologists.

Anyway, this is the latest in my area. I will do another update towards the very end of the academic year.

I ran into another fellow this morning who filled me in on a few more fellows job search.... so here are some updated numbers from what I posted yesterday:

Out of 18 fellows I spoke to or heard about, 15 have found jobs in various areas of the state and country. Many were very happy with the overall location and position. 3 are still activly looking for positions and 2 others I have not heard about. Overall, for those finding jobs it seems like most were able to secure a position in the state or part of the state of his or her choice. there is a true mix among these fellows, most with two fellowship and a couple with one fellowship. Most with two fellowships did one year of general surgical pathology training and then one additional year in something like Cytopath, Heme, GI, Derm and one with molecular. I don't know of anyone who got a job straight out of training from this area, though my sample group is skewed toward fellows. More updates to come.

Pathguy11

check out one of the most recent job postings on pathologyoutlines

"Subspecialty certification or experience in hematopathology, neuropathology, or gynecologic pathology would be a competitive advantage"

It's not enough to be competent as a pathologist. one has to be "competitive" to get a job. competing with other pathologists for a spot.

Originally Posted by scienceguy19

check out one of the most recent job postings on pathologyoutlines

"Subspecialty certification or experience in hematopathology, neuropathology, or gynecologic pathology would be a competitive advantage"

It's not enough to be competent as a pathologist. one has to be "competitive" to get a job. competing with other pathologists for a spot.

Of course you are competing with other pathologists for spots. What the hell? Should they just take anyone? If you had a practice that had significant volume in heme, neuropath and gyn, wouldn't you want to hire someone who knew what they are doing either through fellowship training or through job experience?

Originally Posted by pathstudent

Of course you are competing with other pathologists for spots. What the hell? Should they just take anyone? If you had a practice that had significant volume in heme, neuropath and gyn, wouldn't you want to hire someone who knew what they are doing either through fellowship training or through job experience?

The odd thing about pathology is that the residency training itself seems woefully inadequate for practice. Residency programs seem more inclined to stress the importance of the hospital autopsy and push their residents to cut up specimens than to train their residents to be competent attending physicians.(in fact, I wonder whether pathologists remember they are physicians at all)

If subspec organ-focused training is the new norm, perhaps pathology should follow the lead of internal medicine and have 3 years of general/rotating pathology and 2 years of boarded fellowship, like with every IM subspec.

Or better yet, divide out the subspecs from the beginning like the surgeries.

Plus, pathology is a stupid name for the specialty. It should change its name to tissue diagnostics.

Then they should say fellowship training is required or desirable.

I don't hear other doctors competing for spots, and having to do a fellowship to get a competitive advantage.

Originally Posted by pathstudent

Of course you are competing with other pathologists for spots. What the hell? Should they just take anyone? If you had a practice that had significant volume in heme, neuropath and gyn, wouldn't you want to hire someone who knew what they are doing either through fellowship training or through job experience?

Originally Posted by Substance

The odd thing about pathology is that the residency training itself seems woefully inadequate for practice. Residency programs seem more inclined to stress the importance of the hospital autopsy and push their residents to cut up specimens than to train their residents to be competent attending physicians.(in fact, I wonder whether pathologists remember they are physicians at all)

I just want to point out to those who may be reading and are considering pathology that this is NOT a universal opinion and that may of us have had great training experiences, where the focus was TEACHING YOU DIAGNOSTIC PATHOLOGY.

/please resume the ranting.

Originally Posted by gbwillner

I just want to point out to those who may be reading and are considering pathology that this is NOT a universal opinion and that may of us have had great training experiences, where the focus was TEACHING YOU DIAGNOSTIC PATHOLOGY.

/please resume the ranting.

But he is right that there is WAY too much emphasis on hospital autopsy.

Originally Posted by 2121115

But he is right that there is WAY too much emphasis on hospital autopsy.

Focus on surgical pathology everyone. That is where you will be making the calls.

Originally Posted by 2121115

But he is right that there is WAY too much emphasis on hospital autopsy.

In what program is autopsy supplanting surg path? Residents rotate through ME/coroner offices because they can't get the 50 autopsies required for board elibility. I agree that surg path is where most community pathologists spend their time and earn their money, but the claim that residency puts autopsy ahead of surg path seems unfounded.

Some programs definitely put an emphasis on autopsy, meaning forcing residents to do perfect and pretty dissections, autopsy presentations, not allowing shared autopsies, or way too many autopsy months. By having the residents do physically laborious autopsies, it frees up time for the attendings to do more interesting service work.

Originally Posted by mlw03

In what program is autopsy supplanting surg path? Residents rotate through ME/coroner offices because they can't get the 50 autopsies required for board elibility. I agree that surg path is where most community pathologists spend their time and earn their money, but the claim that residency puts autopsy ahead of surg path seems unfounded.

Not where I trained. We did a full six months of medical (hospital) autopsy, plus weekend call throughout residency, plus an additional rotation at the medical examiner's office. I never said in my post that it was put ahead of surgpath, but that it is WAY over emphasized. To put it in perspective, there were 7 months of autopsy training in my program and only 3 months of cytology and 3 months of hemepath. And now I practically never do an autopsy in my practice, but I see cyto and heme everyday.

And none of the residents in my program had trouble getting 50, in fact it was common to have 70-80-90 and so on.

Originally Posted by 2121115

Not where I trained. We did a full six months of medical (hospital) autopsy, plus weekend call throughout residency, plus an additional rotation at the medical examiner's office. I never said in my post that it was put ahead of surgpath, but that it is WAY over emphasized. To put it in perspective, there were 7 months of autopsy training in my program and only 3 months of cytology and 3 months of hemepath. And now I practically never do an autopsy in my practice, but I see cyto and heme everyday.

And none of the residents in my program had trouble getting 50, in fact it was common to have 70-80-90 and so on.

Agreed. At my program we do more than 6 months of autopsy. Depending on where you practice, you may never have to do an autopsy. Doing the autopsy, taking sections, writing up the report takes a cr*pload of time, time that couldve been spent on heme or cyto IMO. Hemepath and cytopath should be emphasized much more. I luckily finished with 52, so not too bad. We have 2 months of cytology and 4 months of heme. Wish we could do more months of both instead of autopsy. What a waste of time, especially if you have no interest in it or will never have to do an autopsy in your future practice.

90 autopsies?? ridiculous!! it's too bad that no attendings care about those countless hours spent on the autopsy service, autopsy reports, and autopsy presentations. and then they would get angry at me for not knowing my surg path well...

Originally Posted by 2121115

Not where I trained. We did a full six months of medical (hospital) autopsy, plus weekend call throughout residency, plus an additional rotation at the medical examiner's office. I never said in my post that it was put ahead of surgpath, but that it is WAY over emphasized. To put it in perspective, there were 7 months of autopsy training in my program and only 3 months of cytology and 3 months of hemepath. And now I practically never do an autopsy in my practice, but I see cyto and heme everyday.

And none of the residents in my program had trouble getting 50, in fact it was common to have 70-80-90 and so on.

Originally Posted by Unty

Agreed. At my program we do more than 6 months of autopsy. Depending on where you practice, you may never have to do an autopsy. Doing the autopsy, taking sections, writing up the report takes a cr*pload of time, time that couldve been spent on heme or cyto IMO. Hemepath and cytopath should be emphasized much more. I luckily finished with 52, so not too bad. We have 2 months of cytology and 4 months of heme. Wish we could do more months of both instead of autopsy. What a waste of time, especially if you have no interest in it or will never have to do an autopsy in your future practice.

What numbskull is responsible for the 50 autopsy requirement? Why are they so hellbent on trying to preserve that relic of ancient medicine? It basically serves absolutely no purpose in modern times, or at least no purpose worth sacrificing anything else for.

Pathology training as a whole seems inconsistent and obsolete in a lot of ways.

Originally Posted by Substance

What numbskull is responsible for the 50 autopsy requirement? Why are they so hellbent on trying to preserve that relic of ancient medicine? It basically serves absolutely no purpose in modern times, or at least no purpose worth sacrificing anything else for.

Pathology training as a whole seems inconsistent and obsolete in a lot of ways.

Yup the chairman of my program is so concerned with the numbers. Seems like autopsy numbers are declining. I hope they just go away. You dont get paid for autopsies unless it's a private one. Pretty sad considering all the work involved for one autopsy. Autopsies are beneficial in some cases however. It's those trainwrecks that you do autopsies on which make no sense and is a waste of your time.

yeah I started getting tired of the same theme.

90 y.o. with a history of coronary artery disease and congestive heart failure who developed pneumonia after intubation cases....

whereas other doctors are learning new technologies, I'm busy eviscerating and weighing organs . definitely not what i expected to be spending my time doing in residency.

Originally Posted by Unty

Yup the chairman of my program is so concerned with the numbers. Seems like autopsy numbers are declining. I hope they just go away. You dont get paid for autopsies unless it's a private one. Pretty sad considering all the work involved for one autopsy. Autopsies are beneficial in some cases however. It's those trainwrecks that you do autopsies on which make no sense and is a waste of your time.

Originally Posted by scienceguy19

Then they should say fellowship training is required or desirable.

I don't hear other doctors competing for spots, and having to do a fellowship to get a competitive advantage.

You can't be serious. Do you have any contact with the real world? Doctors may not have to compete for really crappy job spots, but any halfway decent job is going to have major competition. And it would take me about 30 seconds to yell down the hallway and find some clinician who did a fellowship to increase their competitive advantage. Even cardiothoracic surgeons do subspecialty fellowships for cripes sakes.

You might say, "well, even the crappy pathology jobs get tons of applicants!" That may or may not be true, but in my experience the crappy jobs somehow still do not manage to land stellar pathologists.

The degrees of scale are different but it is not THAT different in pathology. Give me a freaking break. There are ways to make your points without sounding like a crazy person, I suggest you try those or you will continue to have people dismiss your opinions.

Man you guys are way off topic. This thread is not intended to be a place to debate whether or not Pathology training is adequate, if we do too many autopies, or what the specialty should be called (random comment by the way). Again, this thread was intended to be a place to report jobs for the coming academic year. I might as well just start a new thread since this one has lost all focus.

Pathguy11

Originally Posted by Pathguy11

Man you guys are way off topic. This thread is not intended to be a place to debate whether or not Pathology training is adequate, if we do too many autopies, or what the specialty should be called (random comment by the way). Again, this thread was intended to be a place to report jobs for the coming academic year. I might as well just start a new thread since this one has lost all focus.

Pathguy11

settle down. topics wander around - it's just a normal part of any decent discussion. this has been a very interesting thread that has served a major purpose in my view, namely that for all the talk of a horrific job market we see on here, many of us have been able to find worthwhile employment in our field(s) and geographic region(s) of choice.

Originally Posted by Pathguy11

Man you guys are way off topic. This thread is not intended to be a place to debate whether or not Pathology training is adequate, if we do too many autopies, or what the specialty should be called (random comment by the way). Again, this thread was intended to be a place to report jobs for the coming academic year. I might as well just start a new thread since this one has lost all focus.

Pathguy11

Okay to bring back the topic of discussion.
I've been on the job search trail since the beginning of the year since my fellowship ends in June. AP/CP with 2 fellowships. Applied to only academic positions that were a good fit with my background. No geographic restriction.

No of CV sent out: 10
No of interviews: 7
No of offers: 5
Most places offered a mix of clinical service and academic time that ranged from 50-50, 60-40, 70-30, 75-25
Base salary: $150-180 with no correlation to geographic region or cost of living.
Finally accepted a position that was perfect for me in terms of opportunity and potential.

I only applied to open positions that were posted on the Internet. No cold calls.

My thoughts on the job market: It's not as bad as people make it sound. The 2 places I interviewed but didn't get offers were places where they decided to cancel the job search due to financial troubles. 2 other places I sent my CV to had internal candidates and did not interview any external applicants (heard through the grapevine).

My advice to people on the job trail is to keep trying. Your dream job is out there.

"You got a dream....you gotta protect it.....If you want something, go get it. Period." Chris Gardner, The Pursuit of Happyness

Inpursuit, I'm glad you found what you wanted, but academics is a lot more wide open than private practice. The job market for private practice IS bad, especially for GOOD jobs.

Respectfully, if you weren't expecting this during residency, what exactly were you expecting? I would have thought that any rotations in medical school would have clearly displayed what pathology residents do...not trying to be rude; just curious.

Originally Posted by scienceguy19

yeah I started getting tired of the same theme.

90 y.o. with a history of coronary artery disease and congestive heart failure who developed pneumonia after intubation cases....

whereas other doctors are learning new technologies, I'm busy eviscerating and weighing organs . definitely not what i expected to be spending my time doing in residency.

which fellowship is the most desirable now in terms of getting a job?

Forensics is up there...seriously. It's probably the only field in pathology where there is a nationwide shortage because not enough people go into it.

Agree with forensics.

Originally Posted by atnag

Forensics is up there...seriously. It's probably the only field in pathology where there is a nationwide shortage because not enough people go into it.

Peds path has the same deal.

wonderful. forensics and peds path, my least favorite.

Originally Posted by gbwillner

Peds path has the same deal.

Originally Posted by scienceguy19

wonderful. forensics and peds path, my least favorite.

And that's why the job markets are better for those fields (which are among the lowest paying in pathology). Most of you don't want to do them and would rather work in other subspecialties. Let's stay on topic and save our cruddy job market kvetching for other threads. The OP has done a really good job with this thread.

Originally Posted by mlw03

And that's why the job markets are better for those fields (which are among the lowest paying in pathology). Most of you don't want to do them and would rather work in other subspecialties. Let's stay on topic and save our cruddy job market kvetching for other threads. The OP has done a really good job with this thread.

The stress level must be low for pediatric pathologists. Sign out POCs, fetal autopsies, rare frozens on pediatric tumors. Good lifestyle it seems. Yes pretty low salary considering youve been in residency for 4 years plus medical school. I guess if you love pedipath its all good though.

Placentas are stressful. So much going on in one slide.

Originally Posted by KeratinPearls

The stress level must be low for pediatric pathologists. Sign out POCs, fetal autopsies, rare frozens on pediatric tumors. Good lifestyle it seems. Yes pretty low salary considering youve been in residency for 4 years plus medical school. I guess if you love pedipath its all good though.

Hello everyone. Well tonight we had our fellowship banquet and only one month left before I enter the real world of practice. During the "graduation" ceremony the future jobs and/or fellowships were mentioned for each person. I have combined this with the results from other fellows I know at training programs in my area. Here are the totals, take them for what they are. As of June 2, 2012:

52 Fellows from 12 differential fellowship specialty programs are accounted for.
2 Fellows are still unaccounted for (ie. I don't know their plans)

Subspecialty fellowships include: General Surgical Pathology (17), Hemepath (9), Cytopath (9), Breast (1), Cancer Biomarkers (2), Dermatopath (3), GI Path (2), GU Path (1), GYN Path (1), Head & Neck Path (1), Molecular (3), Soft Tissue (2), Forensics (1)

Out of 52 fellows, 33 are entering the workforce (obtained jobs) = 63.4%
Out of 52 fellows, 17 are doing a second fellowship = 32.6%

Out of 17 fellows doing a second fellowship, ALL were either General Surgical Pathology fellows entering a second fellowship OR Hemepath fellows who were doing a second year of research. It seemed like most of these people had already planned and/or arranged these 2nd fellowship before entering this academic year.

Out of those 33 who found jobs, 13 are staying in the same state = 39.4%
Out of those 33 who found jobs, 20 were leaving for another state or country = 60.4%
Out of those 20 leaving the state, 1 took a job in Canada and 4 took jobs overseas in their countries of origin

Well that's about all I have. Take this information for what it is. As I mentioned in my very first post, I am not trying to paint a positive or negative picture of the job market. Rather I am sharing the experiences of myself and the fellows in my area. It appears from what I can tell that everyone in my area who looked for a job during this past interview season DID find a job. A good portion of people were continuing their training with a 2nd fellowship. A majority of those who found jobs did 2 fellowships. Please continue to share your experiences on this thread.

Pathguy11

were all the 52 fellows you surveyed doing their first fellowship?

Originally Posted by Pathguy11

Hello everyone. Well tonight we had our fellowship banquet and only one month left before I enter the real world of practice. During the "graduation" ceremony the future jobs and/or fellowships were mentioned for each person. I have combined this with the results from other fellows I know at training programs in my area. Here are the totals, take them for what they are. As of June 2, 2012:

52 Fellows from 12 differential fellowship specialty programs are accounted for.
2 Fellows are still unaccounted for (ie. I don't know their plans)

Subspecialty fellowships include: General Surgical Pathology (17), Hemepath (9), Cytopath (9), Breast (1), Cancer Biomarkers (2), Dermatopath (3), GI Path (2), GU Path (1), GYN Path (1), Head & Neck Path (1), Molecular (3), Soft Tissue (2), Forensics (1)

Out of 52 fellows, 33 are entering the workforce (obtained jobs) = 63.4%
Out of 52 fellows, 17 are doing a second fellowship = 32.6%

Out of 17 fellows doing a second fellowship, ALL were either General Surgical Pathology fellows entering a second fellowship OR Hemepath fellows who were doing a second year of research. It seemed like most of these people had already planned and/or arranged these 2nd fellowship before entering this academic year.

Out of those 33 who found jobs, 13 are staying in the same state = 39.4%
Out of those 33 who found jobs, 20 were leaving for another state or country = 60.4%
Out of those 20 leaving the state, 1 took a job in Canada and 4 took jobs overseas in their countries of origin

Well that's about all I have. Take this information for what it is. As I mentioned in my very first post, I am not trying to paint a positive or negative picture of the job market. Rather I am sharing the experiences of myself and the fellows in my area. It appears from what I can tell that everyone in my area who looked for a job during this past interview season DID find a job. A good portion of people were continuing their training with a 2nd fellowship. A majority of those who found jobs did 2 fellowships. Please continue to share your experiences on this thread.

Pathguy11

Very good data, pathguy. Thanks for getting this thread going. For all the karping people do, at least here we have some realy data for a respectable sample size. Between your 52 and some of us other current fellows, bet we have an n close to 100 for the academic year, and it sounds like the overwhelming majority have either a job or another fellowship lined up for next year.

Personally, I know of only 1 current fellow without plans for next year (he's on his second fellowship), and he's the first fellow I've known in 4 years in pathology who didn't have a job or additional fellowship to go by the end of an academic year.